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Rohirrim
01-27-2009, 11:45 AM
Not good. Brains of deceased NFL players show major damage. They start with the old Buff, Ted Johnson and his problems. Chilling info.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.html

Spider
01-27-2009, 11:47 AM
can you imagine boxers ........

Rohirrim
01-27-2009, 11:49 AM
I'm curious to see what the response will be from the NFL. If any.

NUB
01-27-2009, 12:18 PM
Well, concussions **** you up no matter who you are. I got a concussion hitting my head on concrete playing basketball and my math skills pretty much fell off the face of the Earth. There is a big to-do in the NFL about letting the players decide if they want to go back in... I think the NFL does a pretty good job of protecting its players, IMO, but yeah, sometimes they let their business override the player's health, or they let the player's intuition override his own health. Sometimes you just need a doctor to say no.

gyldenlove
01-27-2009, 12:23 PM
That has been known for a while:

http://biac-aclc.ca/en/2008/11/21/head-games-whats-killing-professional-football-players/

Some guys from West Virginia have done post mortem studies on the brains of several former pro football players who all died prematurely. The damage they see in 40 and 50 year olds are equivalent to a normaly aged 80 and 90 year olds. They also see damage that is very similar to alzheimers disease, which leads to personality changes, memory loss, manic depression, all symptoms that have been seen in retired football players.

rugbythug
01-27-2009, 12:31 PM
Well time to tell my son his NFL dreams are over.

kappys
01-27-2009, 05:06 PM
Sometimes you just need a doctor to say no.


Herein lies the issue. No Doctor really knows when its "safe" to go back into a game after a concussion. Given the relatively limited ability of the brain to regenerate it is in fact reasonable to assume that every head injury leads to some permanent loss of function - and that if the process is repeated often enough clinical impairment ensues.

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 05:18 PM
Isn't this obvious? I mean, these guys are going through at least 10 car crash level collisions on a weekly basis, of course there's absurd damage.

Chris
01-27-2009, 05:33 PM
Great article. Bottom line is they want to raise awareness not end football.

Rohirrim
01-27-2009, 06:29 PM
We're going to have to start coaching out the helmet hit and replace it with the good, old fashioned shoulder pad drive and wrap up. Might not look as pretty on Sportscenter, but it has to be done.

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 06:41 PM
We're going to have to start coaching out the helmet hit and replace it with the good, old fashioned shoulder pad drive and wrap up. Might not look as pretty on Sportscenter, but it has to be done.

Text book tackles lead with your face mask. Not nearly as damaging as a lowered head and spear, but it, and every other NFL hit at those freakish sizes and speeds, IS still head trauma, I'm sure.

theAPAOps5
01-27-2009, 06:47 PM
Exactly, no amount of protection will eliminate basic physics. A body in motion stays in motion, etc. When they collide the brain ping pongs all over the cavity. Damage is a guarantee.

tsiguy96
01-27-2009, 07:00 PM
Well time to tell my son his NFL dreams are over.

no joy in living to 70 if you have regrets the whole time

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 07:21 PM
Exactly, no amount of protection will eliminate basic physics. A body in motion stays in motion, etc. When they collide the brain ping pongs all over the cavity. Damage is a guarantee.

Yessir.

If you're in a car collision, regardless of whether your head smacks the windshield or not, you're brain is going to get rattled up. Besides, the majority of these guys would be doing nothing notable with their lives without the game, so play on. :)

theAPAOps5
01-27-2009, 07:33 PM
Yep I have seen the extreme end of the spectrum. A guy lost his engine failed to FLY the airplane, panicked, and nose dived into the ground about a half mile from the airport. When we arrived on scene there was a hole in the back of his head. His brains were in the rear of the airplane. Its the perfect example of Newtons law.

baja
01-27-2009, 11:35 PM
Someone said the other day why not eliminate shoulder pads and helmets at first I thought that was a ridiculous statement but the more I think about it the better I like the idea. Would reduce brain injury greatly.

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 11:45 PM
Yep I have seen the extreme end of the spectrum. A guy lost his engine failed to FLY the airplane, panicked, and nose dived into the ground about a half mile from the airport. When we arrived on scene there was a hole in the back of his head. His brains were in the rear of the airplane. Its the perfect example of Newtons law.

yikes

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 12:40 AM
We're going to have to start coaching out the helmet hit and replace it with the good, old fashioned shoulder pad drive and wrap up. Might not look as pretty on Sportscenter, but it has to be done.

never going to happen.

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 12:43 AM
Someone said the other day why not eliminate shoulder pads and helmets at first I thought that was a ridiculous statement but the more I think about it the better I like the idea. Would reduce brain injury greatly.

you really think the game would still be as fun to watch? Do you really think something like that possible?

Maybe we should make boxing only allowed to hit below the neck? It would be safer.

Maybe we should make race car drivers only go 100 mph so it's safer.

Maybe big wave surfers shouldn't be allowed to go out and try to surf monster waves its dangerous.

Maybe motocross riders shouldn't be allowed to jump more then say 10 feet. More then that you crash alot.

Pro Bull Riding. Forget about it no way to make it safe we have to ban that.

Pretty soon all we will be left with is baseball and basketball. Oh wait no throwing ball over 60 and no jumping over 3 feet or you might get injured.

The best way to not get brain damage from football is to not play, or maybe play only a few yrs. It's the man who decides to play. It's not like a regular job we have to make safe.

Football will always be dangerous that's just how it is. No way they could say don't hit at all with helmet.

baja
01-28-2009, 06:43 AM
Ya what the hell was I thinking about, bring back the Christians & lions too that was the best spectator sport ever.

tsiguy96
01-28-2009, 08:24 AM
this is honestly played up far too much. the padding and helmets today are far superior, not as many ridiculous cheap shots (though the few we do see we see replayed 100x so it seems like there are a ton) and a basic overall lower intensity played today. players who play today will be just fine, maybe some joint issues later in life, as compared to the guys everyone is talking about.

Rohirrim
01-28-2009, 08:29 AM
I saw an interview with Bears great Dan Hampton a few years ago. The guy can barely walk. He's got nothing left in his knees and was using canes to move around. He's still getting operations. When the interviewer asked him if he could go back and change things and not play football, Hampton said no way. He said he loved every minute of it and would do it all over again if he had the chance. So, there ya go.

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 08:33 AM
Ya what the hell was I thinking about, bring back the Christians & lions too that was the best spectator sport ever.

2 people recently dies at Monster Truck and Tractor pulls. If it will make you feel like buying some seeds I will go along with banning those.

I mean who goes to a monster truck show? ............Besides Spider.

theAPAOps5
01-28-2009, 08:43 AM
this is honestly played up far too much. the padding and helmets today are far superior, not as many ridiculous cheap shots (though the few we do see we see replayed 100x so it seems like there are a ton) and a basic overall lower intensity played today. players who play today will be just fine, maybe some joint issues later in life, as compared to the guys everyone is talking about.

While the padding does help the issue lies in the antomy of the skull. The brain sits in a cabity surrounded by a layer of fluid. So it moves freely. When a jarring hit occurs that energy inside isn't disipated and the brain smacks the skull causing damage.

So while the padding helps keep the head protected the physics still becomes an issue.

baja
01-28-2009, 10:03 AM
2 people recently dies at Monster Truck and Tractor pulls. If it will make you feel like buying some seeds I will go along with banning those.

I mean who goes to a monster truck show? ............Besides Spider.

I think anybody that pays for admission to these events should automatically get the blue pill.

http://www.whostolethetarts.com//images/alice.jpg

tsiguy96
01-28-2009, 10:44 AM
While the padding does help the issue lies in the antomy of the skull. The brain sits in a cabity surrounded by a layer of fluid. So it moves freely. When a jarring hit occurs that energy inside isn't disipated and the brain smacks the skull causing damage.

So while the padding helps keep the head protected the physics still becomes an issue.

so for every case of this we hear about, how many other football players are living just fine (given what they did for a career)

if you play football, you will suffer later in life, thats pretty much a given. but these guys with major head injuries and trauma, how prevalent is that over the rest of the population? we hear about 1-3 cases a year...

theAPAOps5
01-28-2009, 10:47 AM
so for every case of this we hear about, how many other football players are living just fine (given what they did for a career)

if you play football, you will suffer later in life, thats pretty much a given. but these guys with major head injuries and trauma, how prevalent is that over the rest of the population? we hear about 1-3 cases a year...

Thats the problem and one the NFL is trying to stymie. There is many cases you don't hear about for many reasons. The players won't discuss it, the effects may be mis diagnoses, and they still don't know all the impacts yet. Its why you see teams way more conservative with Concussions now days.

kappys
01-28-2009, 01:27 PM
I recall hearing a while back from a friend that they studied soccer players and found that their repetitive heading of the ball led to small amounts of brain injury. I never bothered to look it up but the issue raised is that if even minor repetitive head trauma can cause injury then there is no way to make football completely safe. Of course I agree with most on this board that these guys are aware of the risks and should be allowed to take them. In the meantime the goal should be to devise the best head protection possible to minimize the injuries - but the risks will always be there.

mhgaffney
01-28-2009, 04:36 PM
Hahahahahhahahahaa!!!!!

theAPAOps5
01-28-2009, 05:08 PM
Whats so funny about brain damage?

TheDave
01-28-2009, 05:15 PM
Someone said the other day why not eliminate shoulder pads and helmets at first I thought that was a ridiculous statement but the more I think about it the better I like the idea. Would reduce brain injury greatly.

Story of my life...

kappys
01-28-2009, 05:29 PM
Someone said the other day why not eliminate shoulder pads and helmets at first I thought that was a ridiculous statement but the more I think about it the better I like the idea. Would reduce brain injury greatly.

Brilliant! With all the spinal cord injuries and broken necks people will finally stop their bitching about brain injuries.

Spider
01-28-2009, 05:33 PM
Brilliant! With all the spinal cord injuries and broken necks people will finally stop their b****ing about brain injuries.

see there is always a bright side ;D

TheDave
01-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Brilliant! With all the spinal cord injuries and broken necks people will finally stop their b****ing about brain injuries.

Yeah 'cause anyone who ever played rugby or Aussie rules football ends up a paraplegic...

kappys
01-28-2009, 05:43 PM
Yeah 'cause anyone who ever played rugby or Aussie rules football ends up a paraplegic...

Yeah cause they routinely run crossing routes over the middle where they are getting upended by enormous linebackers.

TheDave
01-28-2009, 05:48 PM
Yeah cause they routinely run crossing routes over the middle where they are getting upended by enormous linebackers.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of people getting "upended" in those sports. With the difference in equiptment people learn to tackle without killing themselves.

theAPAOps5
01-28-2009, 05:50 PM
Yeah cause they routinely run crossing routes over the middle where they are getting upended by enormous linebackers.

LOL you obviously haven't watched Aussie League Football or Rugby then. There have been studies that show if you take away the pads severe injuries decline.

Players get a false sense of security with the pads. Take them away and they learn quickly to tackle properly.

kappys
01-28-2009, 05:58 PM
Since the game was played for years without pads I suppose that would be the best comparison.

Not sure if the stats are available but I'm curious to know what the rate of spinal cord/neck injuries was in the olden days.

That said I've watched plenty of rugby and almost no Aussie rules football. I don't think rugby a great comparison given the lack of the forward pass means that players are almost always in a position to defend themselves. As for Aussie rules its hard for me to comment.

TheDave
01-28-2009, 05:58 PM
LOL you obviously haven't watched Aussie League Football or Rugby then. There have been studies that show if you take away the pads severe injuries decline.

Players get a false sense of security with the pads. Take them away and they learn quickly to tackle properly.

The fact is, the league will never do this. It would kill sports cent "Jacked up" segment.

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 06:04 PM
Yeah 'cause anyone who ever played rugby or Aussie rules football ends up a paraplegic...

I'm sure those guys get there fair share of concussions and other injuries.

Sports just can't be made safe. They can be made safer but not safe.

TheDave
01-28-2009, 06:08 PM
I'm sure those guys get there fair share of concussions and other injuries.

Sports just can't be made safe. They can be made safer but not safe.

Of course they can't... but EVERY league makes changes to equipment annually in the name of safety. It's not nearly as earthshattering as you make it sound.

Alkazar
01-28-2009, 06:18 PM
I'm curious to see what the response will be from the NFL. If any.

The response will be to further increase the player's bankrolls, thereby increasing the ticket prices we pay, and decreasing the money we have available for normal things like rent, food, gas, etc.

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Of course they can't... but EVERY league makes changes to equipment annually in the name of safety. It's not nearly as earthshattering as you make it sound.

ummmm what the hell are you talking about. I was responding to people suggesting they ban any helmet to helmet tackling or contact. Another person said maybe we should have no helmets and shoulder pads!!!!!!

All I said is it will never happen and that sports are dangerous. You can't make rules that will make football safer. With all the new equipment, with all the rules changes, we see just as many injuries as we ever did.

By the way every league makes changes to equipment every yr huh? I could rip that statement a new one but I will just let it go.

TheDave
01-28-2009, 06:42 PM
ummmm what the hell are you talking about. I was responding to people suggesting they ban any helmet to helmet tackling or contact. Another person said maybe we should have no helmets and shoulder pads!!!!!!

All I said is it will never happen and that sports are dangerous. You can't make rules that will make football safer. With all the new equipment, with all the rules changes, we see just as many injuries as we ever did.

By the way every league makes changes to equipment every yr huh? I could rip that statement a new one but I will just let it go.


Good lord cut... Sporting leagues do make changes all the time, maybe not every year but on a regular basis. As for your genius statement that you can't make rules that make football safer... WTF? What do you think the rules regarding late hits on QB's was about? How about the rules regarding hitting a defenseless reciever? Spearring? Hi-Lo blocks? Horse Collar?

Everyone of those rules was for the sake of safety... and the game is much safer in the areas these rules addressed. Now what Baja said and i agree with (considering I was the other person who said it), if you want to lessen concussions and acute brain trauma then the helmet is the easiest way to do so. It's a very easy comparison to look at the significant injuries in rugby and Aussie rules football and compare them to the NFL. Last i remember the NFL had nearly 20X the injury rate as those other sports. The oversized shoulder pads and helmet are partially to blame for that. Remove them and these collisions turn into takcles.

The problem is that it would change the game way to raddically and will never happen.