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ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 08:46 AM
Sorry if this shouldn't be in the Thunderdome, but I just wanted to know what everyone's view on this "drug" was. Any thought or opinions would be greatly appreciated. If you were wondering my standpoint, I smoke weed almost on a daily basis, I have not seen any ill effects since I have been smoking, and I think it would a great thing for this country to legalize it. It would boost the economy if we sold and taxed it like we do cigarettes, and it is scientifically proven to be helpful in some medical scenarios as well. Again sorry if this doesn't belong here, but again I was just wondering about everyone's thoughts.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 08:46 AM
It's stupid to pay to jail people for it, that much is certain.

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 08:50 AM
It's yummy.

What are the arguments for mj being illegal again? It's been an awful long time since I had DARE.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 08:53 AM
I don't partake, but see no reason why people shouldn't be allowed to.

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 08:55 AM
It's stupid to pay to jail people for it, that much is certain.

Agreed i think i saw a stat that 1 in 6 people in jail, are there for a marijuana offense. That means that for the 2,245,189 people in jail as of 2006 that about 374,198 of them were due to weed charges. Thats alot of tax money going to house and feed these people in jail. Thats alot since they shouldnt even be there

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 08:58 AM
Used to smoke it, couldn't in the Marines, now don't as a parent, but certainly have nothing against people doing it.

Also, I'm 110% certain that if the US was capable of growing it the best and in turn greatly profitting off of it, then it would be completely legal.

scttgrd
01-27-2009, 08:59 AM
What I don't understand is there is a major push to ban cigarette's pretty much everwhere. All the crying and bitching about second hand smoke yet alot of the same people want to legalize pot. If you can't smoke the cigs. anywhere what about the weed?

dbfan4life
01-27-2009, 09:02 AM
It doesn't seem like a particularly dangerous drung, definitely not more so than alcohol or tobacco. I don't partake in the puffing of the chiva anymore but don't see what the big deal is. I've never heard of anyone dying by smoking too much of it. It's not an addictive (it's addictability is debatable) substance, certainly no more than alcohol or tobacco. There are worse things that someone could be out there doing.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:05 AM
What I don't understand is there is a major push to ban cigarette's pretty much everwhere. All the crying and b****ing about second hand smoke yet alot of the same people want to legalize pot. If you can't smoke the cigs. anywhere what about the weed?

2nd hand cigarette smoke and 2nd hand marijuana smoke are world's apart in terms of the damage done to others.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 09:05 AM
What I don't understand is there is a major push to ban cigarette's pretty much everwhere. All the crying and b****ing about second hand smoke yet alot of the same people want to legalize pot. If you can't smoke the cigs. anywhere what about the weed?

Weed would have to have its own designated areas as well. Likely only sepcific bars and the provacy of your own home.

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 09:06 AM
What I don't understand is there is a major push to ban cigarette's pretty much everwhere. All the crying and b****ing about second hand smoke yet alot of the same people want to legalize pot. If you can't smoke the cigs. anywhere what about the weed?There's evidence to suggest that mj is less carcinogenic than tobacco; that and the fact, that mj-smokers smoke far, far less quantity than cig-smokers.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:09 AM
That's just it though. They can't tax it. I could grow a years supply in my closet and the Gov would never see a dime from it.

LordHelmchen
01-27-2009, 09:10 AM
I don't smoke it anymore.. as a teen I was a regular user for about 1-2 years. Then it gradually faded out and really nothing in the last years.
I think it should be legal. I have seen the ill effects it can cause though, with a relative getting a mental illness from it, luckily only temporary. Still, she couldn't work for about 3 years.

vancejohnson82
01-27-2009, 09:11 AM
to me, weed falls under the same umbrella as cigarrettes and alcohol...

it should be a personal right yet some of the people that partake won't be able to handle themselves (aka: reading about how people lose their jobs/families) --- thats more like alcohol than cigarrettes

2KBack
01-27-2009, 09:11 AM
That's just it though. They can't tax it. I could grow a years supply in my closet and the Gov would never see a dime from it.

that's a simple fix. If it is regulated in a similar mannor to Alcohol, the homemade stuff would likely still be illegal.

There's also the simple matter of the Human lazy factor. Do I want to grow my own ****, or take a 3 minute trip to 7-11 and buy a pack?

Ninjatime
01-27-2009, 09:14 AM
That's just it though. They can't tax it. I could grow a years supply in my closet and the Gov would never see a dime from it.

Someone like me would rather just pay for it than actually grow it though. If the Government legalized it, it could be sold extremely cheap to consumers. The only reason it costs anything now is because its illegal.

montrose
01-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Couldn't resist:
http://www.whereistheoutrage.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/travis-henry-gi.jpg

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Weed would have to have its own designated areas as well. Likely only sepcific bars and the provacy of your own home.

Exactly, I hate having to be fearful that i'll be caught smoking, I dont even need to be out at a bar or in a restaurant smoking i just want the peace of mind that its ok (legally) to smoke in my house.

There was also an interesting article today in a columbus newspaper about how smoking weed can help stop Alzheimers disease and even in some cases reverse it. Again thats just an article in my newspaper, but its cool stuff

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 09:17 AM
Couldn't resist:
http://www.whereistheoutrage.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/travis-henry-gi.jpg
haha good picture, the only thing wrong with him though is he was stupid enough to not wrap it up

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:18 AM
that's a simple fix. If it is regulated in a similar mannor to Alcohol, the homemade stuff would likely still be illegal.

There's also the simple matter of the Human lazy factor. Do I want to grow my own ****, or take a 3 minute trip to 7-11 and buy a pack?

Trust me. You want to grow your own ****. :)

uk bronco
01-27-2009, 09:20 AM
definately should be legalized. Here in the UK they keep changing its classification (we have a Class A (herion coke etc) Class B (speed some amphetimines) and Class C (cant remember any of these)) Weed was a class B then it became a class C and now its back up to a B again. In some areas of london they tried to kinda legalise it by not arresting people caught with small quantities and it cut the police paper work time immensely.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 09:21 AM
Trust me. You want to grow your own ****. :)

Well I'll bow to greater knowledge on that subject

Domostick
01-27-2009, 09:21 AM
I smoke everyday and I believe it is much safer to use than alcohol or tobacco. If you use a vaporizer you aren't getting any of the tar or carcinogenic properties.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 09:23 AM
not to turn the conversqtion too political, but it's the federal government that is blocking progress on Marijuana being decriminalized/legalized. A lot of states have been very progressive on the subject. Big Federal will hear nothing of the sort and regularly trumps the state laws on the subject.

Jesterhole
01-27-2009, 09:24 AM
Weed has just as much social value, and far more medical value, than alcohol or many of the mood altering perscription drugs that are legal. It would be a huge influx of cash if we made it legal and taxed it. The industry in California alone makes around 60b per year, and it is only sort of legal there.

I plan to stop smoking every day at some point, probably when I have kids and a family. But for my money, there is no better way to enjoy some live music or play poker.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:25 AM
definately should be legalized. Here in the UK they keep changing its classification (we have a Class A (herion coke etc) Class B (speed some amphetimines) and Class C (cant remember any of these)) Weed was a class B then it became a class C and now its back up to a B again. In some areas of london they tried to kinda legalise it by not arresting people caught with small quantities and it cut the police paper work time immensely.

Massachusetts recently passed a ballot vote which now makes it a civil instead of criminal matter. You get caught with weed (less than one ounce)? You pay a fine of $100. All proceeds go back to the city where the "offense" happened.

This seems to be a reasonable solution, given the unlikelihood of legalization ever seeing the light of day.

montrose
01-27-2009, 09:28 AM
http://www.abovetheinfluence.com/

HooptyHoops
01-27-2009, 09:30 AM
Massachusetts recently passed a ballot vote which now makes it a civil instead of criminal matter. You get caught with weed (less than one ounce)? You pay a fine of $100. All proceeds go back to the city where the "offense" happened.

This seems to be a reasonable solution, given the unlikelihood of legalization ever seeing the light of day.

Thats interesting. I personally don't have a problem with it, but this is actually a pretty good solution than throwing everybody in jail...

Meck77
01-27-2009, 09:32 AM
The voters of Denver have legalized it but the government doesn't agree.

vancejohnson82
01-27-2009, 09:45 AM
for those of you who smoke, as I do, the decriminilization of marijuana could really take the fun out of it....the government would own it and any "illegal" weed would still be punishable...they would consider it tax evasion or something like that

the quality fo marijuana they would be selling would be so mundane it wouldnt even be fun anymore

Meck77
01-27-2009, 09:48 AM
the quality fo marijuana they would be selling would be so mundane it wouldnt even be fun anymore

Uh huh. Tell that to the people smoking government grown medical marijuana.

vancejohnson82
01-27-2009, 09:52 AM
Uh huh. Tell that to the people smoking government grown medical marijuana.


if you think the government would come close to producing that kind on a massive scale than you are smoking something (pun intended)

they would charge us out the a$$ for this .....probably double or triple what the underground stuff woudl go for....

plus, they would probably put restrictions on how you are allowed to consume your weed too....i bet bongs would be illegal pieces of paraphenalia

rugbythug
01-27-2009, 09:58 AM
I am in the (Shrug) Whatever Group myself. Personally I don't think it is good for you. But neither is Alcohol. One thing I do know, you can't ask stoners whether or not it is that bad for you. Just like you can't ask Bodybuilder whether steroids are bad.

Archer81
01-27-2009, 10:03 AM
Its a drug like alcohol or nicotine, but leads to harsher drugs like cocaine or heroin. Should it remain illegal? Yeah, probably. Should you go to prison for life for possession of it? No.

:Broncos:

Kid A
01-27-2009, 10:07 AM
Watch this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jgJdVEoVbgg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jgJdVEoVbgg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

then watch this (slightly NSFW):

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x_t8DvM2kX8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x_t8DvM2kX8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 10:08 AM
Ah the great debate on making legal the use of the devils grass. :nono:

2KBack
01-27-2009, 10:14 AM
Its a drug like alcohol or nicotine, but leads to harsher drugs like cocaine or heroin. Should it remain illegal? Yeah, probably. Should you go to prison for life for possession of it? No.

:Broncos:

that's such a myth. Weed doesn't lead to harder drugs, it's a false correlation. yes, a very high percentage of hard drug users have used marijuana, but that doesn't not mean that weed is what caused it. It is far more likely that it is a certain thrill or high seeking personality that leads to continued experimentation of more harsh drugs.

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 10:18 AM
Weed doesn't lead to harder drugs. While doing something illegal (smoking mj) and getting away with can lead a person to do something else illegal (harder drugs), the chain is broken by simply legalizing mj. It's more the 'illegality' of mj that leads to other drugs than it's narcotic properties.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:19 AM
My take on it - I've never done any drugs, never will. I don't buy into 90% of the High Times propaganda claiming it has such great benefits and I agree that the ill effects are greatly downplayed.

That being said, I would be OK with it being legalized provided these rules were followed.

- Illegal for anyone under 21 to possess or consume.

- May only be consumed in a private residence.

- May not be displayed in public.

- Cultivation still illegal. Must be purchased from dealers licensed by federal or state governments.

- Any MJ in a vehicle must be A) in container it was purchased in with the seal intact. If container has been opened and the seal is broken, it must be in a part of the vehicle (trunk) where it is not easily accessible to the driver or passengers.

- Being under the influence while in public would be illegal.

- "No tolerance" policy for operating a motor vehicle under the influence.

That's about all I can think of right now. As far as I'm concerned, if the potheads agree to follow those rules then I have no problem with them sitting in their homes smoking marijuana.

I seriously doubt that we see it legalized anytime soon though. Too much opposition.

broncosteven
01-27-2009, 10:19 AM
that's such a myth. Weed doesn't lead to harder drugs, it's a false correlation. yes, a very high percentage of hard drug users have used marijuana, but that doesn't not mean that weed is what caused it. It is far more likely that it is a certain thrill or high seeking personality that leads to continued experimentation of more harsh drugs.

It may not in and of it's self lead to harder drugs, smarter men than me can debate that.

I think the fact that the guy you buy your weed from is more likely to offer you a free taste of coke or H is more likely the deciding factor. Those guys are salesmen moving product. They don't care if you end up smoking rock in your parents basement as long as they make their $ off you.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:20 AM
Weed doesn't lead to harder drugs.

I know people who have been down that road and would strongly disagree with that statement.

Archer81
01-27-2009, 10:21 AM
that's such a myth. Weed doesn't lead to harder drugs, it's a false correlation. yes, a very high percentage of hard drug users have used marijuana, but that doesn't not mean that weed is what caused it. It is far more likely that it is a certain thrill or high seeking personality that leads to continued experimentation of more harsh drugs.


Generally they start with weed, and to get the feeling of that "first high" they move on to harsher things, in this case, weed was the gateway drug. Its not a myth dude because you disagree with it. If they never had weed its doubtful they would have gone to do something harsher.

:Broncos:

2KBack
01-27-2009, 10:23 AM
My take on it - I've never done any drugs, never will. I don't buy into 90% of the High Times propaganda claiming it has such great benefits and I agree that the ill effects are greatly downplayed.

That being said, I would be OK with it being legalized provided these rules were followed.

- Illegal for anyone under 21 to possess or consume.

- May only be consumed in a private residence.

- May not be displayed in public.

- Cultivation still illegal. Must be purchased from dealers licensed by federal or state governments.

- Any MJ in a vehicle must be A) in container it was purchased in with the seal intact. If container has been opened and the seal is broken, it must be in a part of the vehicle (trunk) where it is not easily accessible to the driver or passengers.

- Being under the influence while in public would be illegal.

- "No tolerance" policy for operating a motor vehicle under the influence.

That's about all I can think of right now. As far as I'm concerned, if the potheads agree to follow those rules then I have no problem with them sitting in their homes smoking marijuana.

I seriously doubt that we see it legalized anytime soon though. Too much opposition.

while I personally think you are mistaken in calling legalization supporters as propoganda. There is no more obvious propoganda than those anti-weed TV commercials. I don't think anyone would have a rpoblem with the stipulations you put on it's legalization. It is a drug, and should be treated in a mannor similar to alcohol. alcohol is a drug too, so if you drink...you do drugs, the only difference is legality.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:26 AM
He's not saying that weed users never go on to something stronger. He's simply saying that it's not a given.

I know personally that for every one weed user I knew who moved on to something stronger, I can name at least 10 folks who smoked weed and never did anything further.

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 10:36 AM
I know people who have been down that road and would strongly disagree with that statement. Not to be disrespectful but that line of thing simply falls under the Cause and Effect Fallacy, that is just because one thinking (smoking mj) happens before the other thing (doing harder drugs), does not mean the former caused or lead to the latter. I agree there might be a certain mindset that opens up after doing your first illicit drug, but the narcotic affects of mj have nothing to do with leading people to do harsher drugs. Heroine, cocaine, speed are nothing, nothing like mj--mj is much, much more mild both in the manner it is consumed and its effects.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 10:41 AM
If it were legal, it wouldn't be cheap.

vancejohnson82
01-27-2009, 10:42 AM
i think you can make the claim that alcohol leads to harder drugs more than weed...

i can see in my mind dozens of people who were drunk at a party or whatever and decided to "try" something

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:42 AM
Not to be disrespectful but that line of thing simply falls under the Cause and Effect Fallacy, that is just because one thinking (smoking mj) happens before the other thing (doing harder drugs), does not mean the former caused or lead to the latter. I agree there might be a certain mindset that opens up after doing your first illicit drug, but the narcotic affects of mj have nothing to do with leading people to do harsher drugs. Heroine, cocaine, speed are nothing, nothing like mj--mj is much, much more mild both in the manner it is consumed and its effects.

I understand your point, but again I've been told different by people who have actually experienced those things. As I understand it, it's mainly a result of chasing a better high. There are lots of people though who smoke weed just to get buzzed or are plenty happy with the high it gives them so nothing is absolute.

TheDave
01-27-2009, 10:43 AM
If it were legal, it wouldn't be cheap.

Sin Tax... Think of it this way, if it was legal our national debt could be solved in fairly short order.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:45 AM
i think you can make the claim that alcohol leads to harder drugs more than weed...

i can see in my mind dozens of people who were drunk at a party or whatever and decided to "try" something

That could be said for being under the influence of anything.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:46 AM
Sin Tax... Think of it this way, if it was legal our national debt could be solved in fairly short order.

Exactly. Let the potheads smoke their pot in their homes, the government gets money and that benefits the people.

Everyone wins.

KyleDelexus
01-27-2009, 10:47 AM
It's yummy.

What are the arguments for mj being illegal again? It's been an awful long time since I had DARE.

The only reason it became a scheduled drug to begin with, was because the Government lied to the citizens of America. They used negative articles written by a guy that needed to sell magizines as a scientific fact. In those articles, the author claimed that marihuana made users violent and engage in criminal behavior. He went as far as to say it made users have murderous fits of rage, and quoted people who were imprisoned for murder that blamed the drug for their actions. Since then there have been many scientific studies that prove the opposite and state "the reason marijuana got the reputation it did, was because it was often used in combination with alcohol(which does increase violent behavior)."

TheDave
01-27-2009, 10:47 AM
Exactly. Let the potheads smoke their pot in their homes, the government gets money and that benefits the people.

Everyone wins.

100% agree...

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 10:50 AM
It's yummy.

What are the arguments for mj being illegal again? It's been an awful long time since I had DARE.



I would say that the Gov thinks its a gateway drug that if they legalize Weed, then they will have to legalize other drugs. But I think thats BS. Other countries can pull it off, why cant the US? There is no real arguement to me why it should be illegal. And I am a non weed smoker, and I just think that we can make so much money taxing it like we do Cigarettes and Alcohol, plus there are several studies showing that the affects are way safer then Alcohol....who knows, maybe alchohol related accidents will decline, is that a bad thing?

Chris Rock has a good point on it in one of his standups. He says the Government doesnt care about your safety, they sell Guns at Wallmart. Its just because the best weed/other drugs arent made in America.

Rohirrim
01-27-2009, 10:51 AM
If we legalized, that would go a long way toward deflating the power of some of the gangs that are currently terrorizing Mexico.

Spider
01-27-2009, 10:51 AM
Dont get caught with it in your truck

2KBack
01-27-2009, 10:51 AM
Generally they start with weed, and to get the feeling of that "first high" they move on to harsher things, in this case, weed was the gateway drug. Its not a myth dude because you disagree with it. If they never had weed its doubtful they would have gone to do something harsher.

:Broncos:

It's a myth because there's no hard evidence to prove that Weed leads to harder drugs. Weed is the likely the most harmless substance that can still be classified as a drug, it is also the cheapest and easist to get, so of course it will be most peoples first experience with an illegal drug (though I would argue that these people probably have history with alcohol, caffiene, or tobacco. which is discounted because they are legal). It is then there person who makes the concious decision to seek out a stronger high. Marijuana is arbitrarily chosen as the scapegoat for people making terrible decisions, or more likely have a predisposed leaning towards substance addiction.

KyleDelexus
01-27-2009, 10:52 AM
That's just it though. They can't tax it. I could grow a years supply in my closet and the Gov would never see a dime from it.

Not true at all Marijuana Inc. currently aired and stated that the state of CA took in $11 mil in tax from Marijuana last year. One guy who owns a shop that sells marijuana stuff said he paid $300k in State tax and $500k in Fed tax last year.

So do not believe the Fed Gov isn't making their share

alkemical
01-27-2009, 10:52 AM
Sin Tax... Think of it this way, if it was legal our national debt could be solved in fairly short order.

Bull **** - they say that about cig taxes too ;)

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 10:54 AM
It's a myth because there's no hard evidence to prove that Weed leads to harder drugs. Weed is the likely the most harmless substance that can still be classified as a drug, it is also the cheapest and easist to get, so of course it will be most peoples first experience with an illegal drug (though I would argue that these people probably have history with alcohol, caffiene, or tobacco. which is discounted because they are legal). It is then there person who makes the concious decision to seek out a stronger high. Marijuana is arbitrarily chosen as the scapegoat for people making terrible decisions, or more likely have a predisposed leaning towards substance addiction.



I would say Alcohol is a bigger gateway drug. I would say most people that drink alcohol will say they are more willing to try stuff under the influence of alcohol, then weed.

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 10:55 AM
Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Some call it tampee
Some call it the weed
Some call it Marijuana
Some of them call it Ganja

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Singer smoke it
And players of instruments too
Legalize it, yeah, yeah
That's the best thing you can do
Doctors (http://www.lyricsdownload.com/peter-tosh-legalize-it-lyrics.html#) smoke it
Nurses smoke it
Judges smoke it
Even the lawyers (http://www.lyricsdownload.com/peter-tosh-legalize-it-lyrics.html#) too

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

It's good for the flu
It's good for asthma
Good for tuberculosis
Even umara composis

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Bird (http://www.lyricsdownload.com/peter-tosh-legalize-it-lyrics.html#) eat it
And they leave it
Fowls eat it
Goats love to play with it

2KBack
01-27-2009, 10:56 AM
I would say Alcohol is a bigger gateway drug. I would say most people that drink alcohol will say they are more willing to try stuff under the influence of alcohol, then weed.

I agree. alcohol causes some ****.

DHallblows
01-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Dont get caught with it in your truck

Hypothetical advise, Spider? :wiggle:

dbfan4life
01-27-2009, 11:07 AM
I agree. alcohol causes some ****.

I agree. I've done more stupid stuff (not necessarily illegal stuff but stupid stuff nonetheless) drunk than I even did stoned.

NUB
01-27-2009, 11:12 AM
Most people who do weed are harmless. The problem is that they still go to prison with a bunch of thieves and murderers and inevitably come out either a broken citizen or, yup, a murderer and thief. It's no wonder that the crime in America is practically cyclical and it's because so many people come out of prison with a scarlet letter, can't find work, and turn to nefarious tasks.

Weed, as an illegal substance, simply doesn't help. And one of the big reasons it is a gate way drug is because you have to buy it from folks who have other drugs, or have even laced the marijuana with those drugs. Add in that the drug is entirely harmless and has the opposite effects of alcohol (socially speaking) and there's no reason for it to be illegal, or at the very least a crime.

Spider
01-27-2009, 11:13 AM
Hypothetical advise, Spider? :wiggle:

;D of course

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 11:13 AM
The show COPS would be cancelled within weeks.

snowspot66
01-27-2009, 11:14 AM
It's legalization would also legalize the growing of industrial hemp. It gets a bad rap because technically it's the same weed but it doesn't get you high. The government sees no difference in the two varieties. The industrial implications of having this plant illegal is costing us far more than the lack of taxing the drug variety of the plant. We're getting ****ed twice.

TheDave
01-27-2009, 11:15 AM
Bull **** - they say that about cig taxes too ;)


True, I should never underestimate the Governments ability to over spend.

Rohirrim
01-27-2009, 11:16 AM
Constitutionally, the government has no right to tell us what to put in our bodies. And they know it. If you study how they got around that in the 30s, it's a real eye-opener. They have since used that strategy to enforce all sorts of Big Brother types of legislation. Think about it for a moment. What right does anybody else have to tell you that you can't pluck a weed, dry it, and smoke it? What part of the Constitution covers that? The answer is, no part at all. That governmental power does not exist. Here it all is, more than you'd ever want to know: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/mj_outlawed.htm

McDman
01-27-2009, 11:18 AM
It was made illegal due to immense racism in the thirties, it was looked at as a "negro" drug and the government feared it would turn normal white Americans into crazed psychopaths. It was just a way to suppress minorities even more.

Now I haven't smoked in about three months and may never again, but it really should legalized. We, the taxpayers, are spending entirely too much money on prisons that house marijuana dealers and users. Not only are we losing money, but the government is as well.

Also I can pretty much guarantee it would be cheaper if it was legal. No way they are going to keep charging the prices we pay now. In Tennessee for 1/8 of an oz it is $60. I really can't see it being any more expensive than that.

Also it being a gateway drug, this is a long argument that no side can win, but as a user of it for three years before I quit I can say for the most part it will be the first drug used before any others. If people do not use marijuana then it is very unlikely they are going to use cocaine, speed, etc... It does not make people need to try other stuff to get high, but it does open curiosity about other substances.

That being said I <3 it.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:22 AM
True, I should never underestimate the Governments ability to over spend.

Or over stupid.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 11:23 AM
It is completely harmless and a much safer alternative to alcohol. Is has never been a recorded cause of death, and a human being cannot overdose. It's not nearly as damaging to your body as cigarettes or alcohol.
Bonus fact: It doesn't impair one's ability to operate a motor vehicle.
I'm surprised to see such level-headedness on the mane about this. I figured you reefer madness folks would come crawling out.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:25 AM
It is completely harmless and a much safer alternative to alcohol. Is has never been a recorded cause of death, and a human being cannot overdose. It's not nearly as damaging to your body as cigarettes or alcohol.
Bonus fact: It doesn't impair one's ability to operate a motor vehicle.
I'm surprised to see such level-headedness on the mane about this. I figured you reefer madness folks would come crawling out.

I disagree. It does cause an effect for one's ability to drive.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 11:25 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uuOo8x3WXWE/RyXs4QUz0DI/AAAAAAAAIJY/jhuTwb14hUc/s400/101.jpg

rugbythug
01-27-2009, 11:27 AM
It is completely harmless and a much safer alternative to alcohol. Is has never been a recorded cause of death, and a human being cannot overdose. It's not nearly as damaging to your body as cigarettes or alcohol.
Bonus fact: It doesn't impair one's ability to operate a motor vehicle.
I'm surprised to see such level-headedness on the mane about this. I figured you reefer madness folks would come crawling out.

Not True.

theAPAOps5
01-27-2009, 11:29 AM
Dandlilions suck, when they are those puff balls they just spread like a bad virus.

rugbythug
01-27-2009, 11:30 AM
All this talk about people being put in Jail for weed Possession. Does anyone know a person put in jail for possession with out the intent to distribute? My wife is a counselor and sits through tons of court cases. No one is doing time for Smoke able amounts. That might be part of your case when you were busted shooting it out with the cops and had a joint in your pocket. But People are not doing 5 years for possession of MJ

Rohirrim
01-27-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm sure the snack industry would like to see it legalized. :puff:

dbfan4life
01-27-2009, 11:31 AM
"Weed is from the earth. God put this here for me and for you! Take advantage, man. Take advantage."

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2009, 11:33 AM
"Weed is from the earth. God put this here for me and for you! Take advantage, man. Take advantage."

puff, puff, give.....you're effing up the rotation.

theAPAOps5
01-27-2009, 11:33 AM
Ragweed really sucks, man it just wrecks my alergies.

snowspot66
01-27-2009, 11:34 AM
All this talk about people being put in Jail for weed Possession. Does anyone know a person put in jail for possession with out the intent to distribute? My wife is a counselor and sits through tons of court cases. No one is doing time for Smoke able amounts. That might be part of your case when you were busted shooting it out with the cops and had a joint in your pocket. But People are not doing 5 years for possession of MJ

Why should they be doing time for selling it? Bust them for meth or cocaine or some ****.

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 11:41 AM
My take on it - I've never done any drugs, never will. I don't buy into 90% of the High Times propaganda claiming it has such great benefits and I agree that the ill effects are greatly downplayed.

That being said, I would be OK with it being legalized provided these rules were followed.

- Illegal for anyone under 21 to possess or consume.

- May only be consumed in a private residence.

- May not be displayed in public.

- Cultivation still illegal. Must be purchased from dealers licensed by federal or state governments.

- Any MJ in a vehicle must be A) in container it was purchased in with the seal intact. If container has been opened and the seal is broken, it must be in a part of the vehicle (trunk) where it is not easily accessible to the driver or passengers.

- Being under the influence while in public would be illegal.

- "No tolerance" policy for operating a motor vehicle under the influence.

That's about all I can think of right now. As far as I'm concerned, if the potheads agree to follow those rules then I have no problem with them sitting in their homes smoking marijuana.

I seriously doubt that we see it legalized anytime soon though. Too much opposition.

The fact that you haven't tried it voids any opinion that you have. Honestly, how could you even know what you are talking about? That's like me saying that the Broncos are better than another team when i've only looked at stats and haven't seen the other team play.

There is so much propaganda put out there about Marijuana that if you haven't tried it you really don't have a clue.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-27-2009, 11:43 AM
The fact that you haven't tried it voids any opinion that you have. Honestly, how could you even know what you are talking about? That's like me saying that the Broncos are better than another team when i've only looked at stats and haven't seen the other team play.

There is so much propaganda put out there about Marijuana that if you haven't tried it you really don't have a clue.

Ive never tried it either...but, id always rather be around someone high than drunk..thats for sure. Most of my friends who do it, i cant even tell the difference. I say legalize it, tax the **** outta it.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-27-2009, 11:43 AM
The fact that you haven't tried it voids any opinion that you have. Honestly, how could you even know what you are talking about? That's like me saying that the Broncos are better than another team when i've only looked at stats and haven't seen the other team play.

There is so much propaganda put out there about Marijuana that if you haven't tried it you really don't have a clue.

its pretty much legal in CA anyway, we have weed stores!

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 11:44 AM
I would say Alcohol is a bigger gateway drug. I would say most people that drink alcohol will say they are more willing to try stuff under the influence of alcohol, then weed.

BINGO

Cocaine goes WAY better with alcohol than with mj.

i know, i've done it. but i know the danger of it, cocaine is a horrible drug.

gyldenlove
01-27-2009, 11:50 AM
The only reason alcohol and tobacco are legal is because they were around before laws regulating substances. Pretty much anything that has been introduced later has been made illegal right away. If Alcohol or Tobacco was introduced to the market today they would be made illegal so fast it would make your head spin.

Weed is a divisive subject, on one hand it is only mildly addictive compared to many other substances, it has a calming effect on most people and doesn't in general lead to violence. It has been shown to cause delusions in some users, and it has been shown to be a significant risk factor for mental disorders, both causing severe disorders and amplifying symptoms. On the other hand it has medical benefits as a pain killer and can in some nervous disorders help symptoms.

I wouldn't be opposed to a partial legalization, it however has to be done in a very organized way with the government taking on the role of supplier and distributer like the way they do with alcohol in Ontario. That would also allow a control with who uses it and it can be controlled so minors and people with mental disorders can't purchase it. Under that kind of program possession of large amounts, production without a government license and selling it would still be criminal.

The reason it will never happen is that weed is most often smoked and legalizing it would rub a lot of anti-smoking organizations the wrong way.

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 11:52 AM
its pretty much legal in CA anyway, we have weed stores!

Yeah, i was going to get my "prescription" before i left the state last summer just for the heck of it but decided i needed the 100 or so dollars that it would have cost me.

In regards to quality of government stuff. Yes, there would be some crappy 7-11 pre rolled mj "cigarettes", but it would still be better than the brown stuff you get from dude down the street. The thing is, no matter what you are buying, you don't go to convenience stores for quality. I only smoke the highs myself, and in the more progressive states/cities *cough*madison*cough* there would definitely be specialty stores just like you see specialty wine and cheese stores.

Also, it's not like it's THAT much harder to grow good pot than bad pot. It's just the seeds you are using and a little bit of pruning.

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 11:53 AM
BINGO

Cocaine goes WAY better with alcohol than with mj.

i know, i've done it. but i know the danger of it, cocaine is a horrible drug.



Yup, when I was drunk I was like "sure, gimmi it", which is how I tried weed. When I was only high, i was like "I dont want anything else, just sit here and wait for my pizza rolls to be finished in the microwave."

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 11:54 AM
The fact that you haven't tried it voids any opinion that you have.

Yeah, OK buddy. Hilarious!

I guess I'll just defer to those who tell me "dudeeeeeee, it opens up your mind!" or whatever such bull**** they claim, like the guy above who told us it doesn't impair your ability to operate a vehicle.

Rohirrim
01-27-2009, 11:55 AM
Chorus
Don't bogart that joint my friend
Pass it over to me
Don't bogart that joint my friend
Pass it over to me

Roll another one
Just like the other one
You've been holding on to it
And I sure will like a hit

[chorus]

Roll another one
Just like the other one
That one's burned to the end
Come on and be a real friend

[chorus]

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 11:55 AM
The only reason alcohol and tobacco are legal is because they were around before laws regulating substances. Pretty much anything that has been introduced later has been made illegal right away. If Alcohol or Tobacco was introduced to the market today they would be made illegal so fast it would make your head spin.

Weed is a divisive subject, on one hand it is only mildly addictive compared to many other substances, it has a calming effect on most people and doesn't in general lead to violence. It has been shown to cause delusions in some users, and it has been shown to be a significant risk factor for mental disorders, both causing severe disorders and amplifying symptoms. On the other hand it has medical benefits as a pain killer and can in some nervous disorders help symptoms.

I wouldn't be opposed to a partial legalization, it however has to be done in a very organized way with the government taking on the role of supplier and distributer like the way they do with alcohol in Ontario. That would also allow a control with who uses it and it can be controlled so minors and people with mental disorders can't purchase it. Under that kind of program possession of large amounts, production without a government license and selling it would still be criminal.

The reason it will never happen is that weed is most often smoked and legalizing it would rub a lot of anti-smoking organizations the wrong way.


You bring up great points, which really makes me hope we will ban Cigerrette smoking (everywhere), and since that will never happen, I think we should just legalize weed.

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 11:56 AM
Yeah, OK buddy. Hilarious!

I guess I'll just defer to those who tell me "dudeeeeeee, it opens up your mind!" or whatever such bull**** they claim, like the guy above who told us it doesn't impair your ability to operate a vehicle.



I would say it does affect your ablitlity to drive a vehicle, but nowhere near the affect that alcohol has on driving.

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 11:56 AM
The only reason alcohol and tobacco are legal is because they were around before laws regulating substances. Pretty much anything that has been introduced later has been made illegal right away. If Alcohol or Tobacco was introduced to the market today they would be made illegal so fast it would make your head spin.

Weed is a divisive subject, on one hand it is only mildly addictive compared to many other substances, it has a calming effect on most people and doesn't in general lead to violence. It has been shown to cause delusions in some users, and it has been shown to be a significant risk factor for mental disorders, both causing severe disorders and amplifying symptoms. On the other hand it has medical benefits as a pain killer and can in some nervous disorders help symptoms.

I wouldn't be opposed to a partial legalization, it however has to be done in a very organized way with the government taking on the role of supplier and distributer like the way they do with alcohol in Ontario. That would also allow a control with who uses it and it can be controlled so minors and people with mental disorders can't purchase it. Under that kind of program possession of large amounts, production without a government license and selling it would still be criminal.

The reason it will never happen is that weed is most often smoked and legalizing it would rub a lot of anti-smoking organizations the wrong way.

1. Some people just shouldn't be doing any sort of drugs in the first place.

2. MJ gets a raw deal in that people compare it to cigarettes and alcohol in terms of usage. It's a whole different drug, it's a whole different culture. You don't take a smoke break and puff on a joint at work. And i wouldn't wanna go to the bar and smoke pot, for me it just isn't a very social drug, i tend to be much more introvert when i'm high. Marijuana, in my opinion, is best used when you've completed the days tasks and you are settling down for the night and are about to watch some TV or play a video game or something. Say, 8 or 9 o'clock. Helps you sleep as well.

Eli_Cash
01-27-2009, 11:57 AM
In my experience different people react differently to certain drugs.

This includes tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, etc.

Alcohol makes me stupid and feel horrible most of the time.
Makes doing anything 5X as hard.

Smoking relaxes me after a tough day and doesn't inhibit my ability to do mundane tasks.

To each his own when people take responsibility for themselves...

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 11:57 AM
I would say it does affect your ablitlity to drive a vehicle, but nowhere near the affect that alcohol has on driving.

Depends on how much is consumed. Pound for pound, I'm sure pot has less overall effect, but you can still be too impaired to safely drive after consuming a relatively small amount.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 11:58 AM
Lets get back on topic here. The original question is

"Weed what is your take?"

I would think it depends if you are the supplier or the street level dealer.

Los Broncos
01-27-2009, 12:00 PM
I started smoking it when I was about 15.

Now I smoke every now and then.

It does more harm then good I'm sure.

But it does good things like puts me in the mood to do chores and such.

Drek
01-27-2009, 12:03 PM
I know people who have been down that road and would strongly disagree with that statement.

And they would be wrong.

See this University of Pittsburgh study:
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study-say-marijuana-no-gateway-drug-12116.html

Or some comments from the U.S. Government's own study from the 70's:
http://www.ukcia.org/research/gateway.htm

People "chasing the next high" like you suggest would've found something as their "gateway" no matter what.

The biggest problem with legalization is proving safe and legal use versus unsafe and illegal use within sound legal context. Marijuana stays in the system for on average 30 days after use. Consider the legal ramifications on something as simple as a DUI. If someone was to get pulled over and seemed to be of an impaired state there is no iron clad testing method that says "this person is currently under the influence". At that point innocent people would get charged with crimes they didn't commit and the guilty would be able to pose a reasonable doubt if they were to challenge it.

I'm a fan of legalization but something would need to be resolved in that capacity before it could be done intelligently.

SouthStndJunkie
01-27-2009, 12:04 PM
Sorry if this shouldn't be in the Thunderdome, but I just wanted to know what everyone's view on this "drug" was. Any thought or opinions would be greatly appreciated. If you were wondering my standpoint, I smoke weed almost on a daily basis, I have not seen any ill effects since I have been smoking, and I think it would a great thing for this country to legalize it. It would boost the economy if we sold and taxed it like we do cigarettes, and it is scientifically proven to be helpful in some medical scenarios as well. Again sorry if this doesn't belong here, but again I was just wondering about everyone's thoughts.

My take?

Dumb to talk about it so openly on message boards.

Los Broncos
01-27-2009, 12:04 PM
Pot causes panic attacks I read some where.

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 12:07 PM
Yeah, OK buddy. Hilarious!

I guess I'll just defer to those who tell me "dudeeeeeee, it opens up your mind!" or whatever such bull**** they claim, like the guy above who told us it doesn't impair your ability to operate a vehicle.

It does open up your mind. It's a psychoactive drug. You should probably take a puff, maybe you would be a little more open minded.

All i am saying is that you can read whatever you want to about it, but unless you try it do you really know what you are talking about? Could you tell me what sex is like if you had never done it? No, jerking does not count.

And on the topic of driving under the influence of marijuana, there are two points to this:

1. If you are a new user, it WILL impair your driving. If you have built up any sort of tolerance whatsoever, the effects it has on your driving are minimal, and MUCH MUCH less than the effects of alcohol. My guess is that the "dude" above is a veteran user and probably doesn't notice much of a difference at all. It doesn't mean it's not there, but it's really not that dangerous. There is a limit to how high you can get. It will make you tired but not to the point where you will black out.

2. Sort of off topic but, i'm really getting tired of hearing about people who get pulled over and thrown in jail because they have traces of marijuana in their urine, when they A. can quite easily pass a sobriety test, and B. haven't even smoked that particular day. Yet, they are tagged with 300 dollar fines and stripped of their drivers licenses.

vancejohnson82
01-27-2009, 12:07 PM
i smoke....if I don't have it, I dont go nuts, but I usually do have it....honestly, I lead a very normal life

i also struggled with alcoholism at one point...i used it everyday and could not control my intake of it....basically, I stopped when my body couldnt handle the abuse anymore (about 7 months worth)...that was post college and i was leading a very abnormal life (not good)

i also went through a period of time where i was experimenting every day with hard drugs (acid, ecstacy, coke) and those things are basically the devil...i quit when my friends began quitting their jobs, getting arrested, losing their homes and stealing from each other....

in my knowledgable opinion weed is the most controllable of the drug world because you dont "lose control" over yourself or your life...

and yes, I realize all are different and I have an extremely addictive personality

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 12:07 PM
Pot causes panic attacks I read some where.

in people that are prone to panic attacks and shouldn't be taking drugs in the first place.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 12:09 PM
My take?

Dumb to talk about it so openly on message boards.

Myeah....scheee....you don't know which dirty rats are around scheee....

BABronco
01-27-2009, 12:09 PM
Legalize it. They only people I've met against it are people who have never tried it. Convinced 10 of my friends to try it for the first time 6 said it wasnt for them but they arent against it anymore and the other 4 became casual users.

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 12:11 PM
My take?

Dumb to talk about it so openly on message boards.

I respect your opinion, but isn't that what a message board is for. And before you say it, yes this is a broncos message board, but i wanted to see what my fellow Denver fans thought of it.

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 12:11 PM
My take?

Dumb to talk about it so openly on message boards.

Yeah, we would be better served to just trust the government and never talk about controversial issues especially in such a riveting offseason.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 12:11 PM
I respect your opinion, but isn't that what a message board is for. And before you say it, yes this is a broncos message board, but i wanted to see what my fellow Denver fans thought of it.

Look, it's cool - just understand that someone here lost their job for making statements.

SportinOne
01-27-2009, 12:14 PM
Look, it's cool - just understand that someone here lost their job for making statements.

I would definitely not be talking about this at work, that's for sure!

Los Broncos
01-27-2009, 12:15 PM
in people that are prone to panic attacks and shouldn't be taking drugs in the first place.

Right or people who are almost out of pot have attacks :)

NUB
01-27-2009, 12:17 PM
Pot causes panic attacks I read some where.

I can attest to this.

I once thought my best friend was going to murder me once. Sounds funny as **** but I can't even explain how horrifying it was.

SouthStndJunkie
01-27-2009, 12:17 PM
Look, it's cool - just understand that someone here lost their job for making statements.

Exactly....roll one up and come on over and I will tell you what I think about it.

SouthStndJunkie
01-27-2009, 12:19 PM
I respect your opinion, but isn't that what a message board is for. And before you say it, yes this is a broncos message board, but i wanted to see what my fellow Denver fans thought of it.

You wanted my take and I gave it.

Killericon
01-27-2009, 12:22 PM
30%

Killericon
01-27-2009, 12:23 PM
Actually, I've never touched the stuff, but I don't care if people do get high. I see no difference between it and Alcohol.

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 12:24 PM
All this talk about people being put in Jail for weed Possession. Does anyone know a person put in jail for possession with out the intent to distribute? My wife is a counselor and sits through tons of court cases. No one is doing time for Smoke able amounts. That might be part of your case when you were busted shooting it out with the cops and had a joint in your pocket. But People are not doing 5 years for possession of MJIt's more like three strike rules, and the accumulation of minor drug offenses that I think people are referring to.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 12:26 PM
I would definitely not be talking about this at work, that's for sure!

Exactly the point man... but you can be found and made an example of. It happened before, just letting you know you aren't anon.

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 12:31 PM
Look, it's cool - just understand that someone here lost their job for making statements.
my bad I didn't know that. my apologies

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 12:33 PM
It does open up your mind. It's a psychoactive drug. That's pure gold man. :rofl:

Seriously man, I don't support some of the asinine anti-pot propaganda out there, so at least have the decency not to throw the asinine pro-pot propaganda at me either.

You should probably take a puff No thanks. I value my career much more than some pissant drug.

maybe you would be a little more open minded. I don't need a drug to make me open minded, and neither should anyone else.

All i am saying is that you can read whatever you want to about it, but unless you try it do you really know what you are talking about? Enough to spot obvious bull**** (on both sides of the spectrum).

And on the topic of driving under the influence of marijuana, there are two points to this: Driving under the influence of any substance is one of the most dangerous things you can do. PERIOD. It's also one of the absolute most selfish things a human being can do.

2. Sort of off topic but, i'm really getting tired of hearing about people who get pulled over and thrown in jail because they have traces of marijuana in their urine, when they A. can quite easily pass a sobriety test, and B. haven't even smoked that particular day. Yet, they are tagged with 300 dollar fines and stripped of their drivers licenses.

But you're not tired of people breaking the law? ???

I understand you think it should be legal, but currently it is not so if you or someone else gets busted that is your own fault. You/they knew it was illegal and did it anyway. And I'm not trying to be holier than thou about it. I love to drive fast, but if I get pulled over and get a ticket I don't bitch about the cop or the law, I'd just understand that I took a gamble and lost.

And here is a tip from someone who knows alot of cops and is going into that work himself. For small things like that, you can get off with a warning (or at worst, a citation) if you have trace amounts in your body and/or possess a very small amount provided that you aren't a dick about it.

People who get stopped and busted with pot usually have an attitude about it because they think it should be legal, and while I can understand their frustrations it just makes their situation that much more. Be polite to the officer, apologize...etc, and you'll usually get off with the least amount of trouble possible.

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 12:34 PM
You wanted my take and I gave it.
no thats cool im not criticizing you, i was just saying what i thought to. thank you for your thoughts, and i mean that sincerely

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 12:36 PM
The problem with weed is the same as alcohol. Abuse leads to destructive behavior. Look, its not going to kill you, its not going to get you physically addicted, but what weed will do, with heavy prolonged use, is kill your ambition. That is not a myth, that is fact. I've seen it far far too many times and myself was a victim of it. Sure, there are a few who can function and keep it in moderation, but by and large, the potheads out there are worthless to everyone. They have no desire to work and the only thing they look forward to is being stoned.

Im completely against legalizing it, but I am also for the de-criminalization of it as well. I have a great argument for why I'm against its legalization: My kids. I do not want them to have to struggle through school and possibly later work, because they became potheads. It doesnt make life easier, it makes it harder and life is ****ing hard enough. You should not however, be jailed for it. A simple fine for possession is ample enough punishment, particularly if the fine is rather steep for your everyday Joe Public.

Medically it should be pursued for medicinal purpose and I have no problem with those that are dying from terminal illness smoking weed. WTF is the problem, these people are dying and it may give them some comfort.

As a former pothead, when I stopped smoking weed my life became a lot more clear and easier to live. I dont expect younger people in their teens or twenties to understand. I didnt when I was their age because, like them, I was stupid. Im not against smoking weed, if you are one of the few that can maintain discipline and do it at the end of the day when your daily duties of work, and or family life are taken care of either.

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 12:37 PM
I also think it could be illegal because there is no real way to prove someone is under the influence of weed while driving. You would have to take them in and take hair / urine samples and even if they were positive, the suspect could say that was from smoking weeks ago. I bet if they find a way to take a Breathalizer for weed, it will be legal.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 12:40 PM
I also think it could be illegal because there is no real way to prove someone is under the influence of weed while driving. You would have to take them in and take hair / urine samples and even if they were positive, the suspect could say that was from smoking weeks ago. I bet if they find a way to take a Breathalizer for weed, it will be legal.

saliva

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 12:42 PM
I also think it could be illegal because there is no real way to prove someone is under the influence of weed while driving. You would have to take them in and take hair / urine samples and even if they were positive, the suspect could say that was from smoking weeks ago. I bet if they find a way to take a Breathalizer for weed, it will be legal.

Not true. You dont have to be under the influence of alcohol to get a DUI. Its driving under the influence, period. You can PASS a breathalyzer and still get a DUI by law. Because breathalyzers are general purpose measuring, but since alcohol, like all drugs, affects people differently, you can actually go to jail because you are intoxicated.

People go to jail all the time under the influence of some other non-alcoholic drug like weed, pills, coke, etc. Cops get to make a judgement based on what they have seen and their own training and most times they win in court because cops are trained specifically to look for signs both in your ability to drive (why you got pulled over in the first place) and your demeanor.

Weed is illegal because Mexicans in the 20s and 30s brought it in massive quantities to the United States and young white urban and farm kids were getting high on it and the government didnt like KIDS getting high. Period.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 12:43 PM
The problem with weed is the same as alcohol. Abuse leads to destructive behavior. Look, its not going to kill you, its not going to get you physically addicted, but what weed will do, with heavy prolonged use, is kill your ambition. That is not a myth, that is fact. I've seen it far far too many times and myself was a victim of it. Sure, there are a few who can function and keep it in moderation, but by and large, the potheads out there are worthless to everyone. They have no desire to work and the only thing they look forward to is being stoned.

Im completely against legalizing it, but I am also for the de-criminalization of it as well. I have a great argument for why I'm against its legalization: My kids. I do not want them to have to struggle through school and possibly later work, because they became potheads. It doesnt make life easier, it makes it harder and life is ****ing hard enough. You should not however, be jailed for it. A simple fine for possession is ample enough punishment, particularly if the fine is rather steep for your everyday Joe Public.

Medically it should be pursued for medicinal purpose and I have no problem with those that are dying from terminal illness smoking weed. WTF is the problem, these people are dying and it may give them some comfort.

As a former pothead, when I stopped smoking weed my life became a lot more clear and easier to live. I dont expect younger people in their teens or twenties to understand. I didnt when I was their age because, like them, I was stupid. Im not against smoking weed, if you are one of the few that can maintain discipline and do it at the end of the day when your daily duties of work, and or family life are taken care of either.


Not to sound too cold hearted to your argument, but weed being illegal didn't stop you or any of the potheads you are referring to from smoking it. How does it remaining illegal protect your kids anymore than you were?

vancejohnson82
01-27-2009, 12:48 PM
That's pure gold man. :rofl:

Seriously man, I don't support some of the asinine anti-pot propaganda out there, so at least have the decency not to throw the asinine pro-pot propaganda at me either.

No thanks. I value my career much more than some pissant drug.

I don't need a drug to make me open minded, and neither should anyone else.

Enough to spot obvious bull**** (on both sides of the spectrum).

Driving under the influence of any substance is one of the most dangerous things you can do. PERIOD. It's also one of the absolute most selfish things a human being can do.



But you're not tired of people breaking the law? ???

I understand you think it should be legal, but currently it is not so if you or someone else gets busted that is your own fault. You/they knew it was illegal and did it anyway. And I'm not trying to be holier than thou about it. I love to drive fast, but if I get pulled over and get a ticket I don't b**** about the cop or the law, I'd just understand that I took a gamble and lost.

And here is a tip from someone who knows alot of cops and is going into that work himself. For small things like that, you can get off with a warning (or at worst, a citation) if you have trace amounts in your body and/or possess a very small amount provided that you aren't a dick about it.

People who get stopped and busted with pot usually have an attitude about it because they think it should be legal, and while I can understand their frustrations it just makes their situation that much more. Be polite to the officer, apologize...etc, and you'll usually get off with the least amount of trouble possible.


In your attempt to contribute to a non-biased conversation you just came off as very "holier than thou."

There are plenty of people who smoke and hit the grind every day at work....I respect your decision to stay clean but by calling it a "pissant" drug you are throwing negative connotations towards those who do partake...

I would rather be driving next to someone who is high than somebody who is babbling away on their phone, changing the radio station and text messaging....there are plenty of "more dangerous" things you can do while driving, many of them are actually (mindbogglingly) still legal. I'm sure if numbers were tallied the number of peopel in accidents because of phones woudl outweigh those that are caused by MJ.....

Plus, the problem I have with your argument at certain points is that, like many of the people who make the rules, you've never tried it...it doesnt invalidate your argument but it does make your personal experience (driving on it) a bit construed.

snowspot66
01-27-2009, 12:55 PM
The problem with weed is the same as alcohol. Abuse leads to destructive behavior. Look, its not going to kill you, its not going to get you physically addicted, but what weed will do, with heavy prolonged use, is kill your ambition. That is not a myth, that is fact. I've seen it far far too many times and myself was a victim of it. Sure, there are a few who can function and keep it in moderation, but by and large, the potheads out there are worthless to everyone. They have no desire to work and the only thing they look forward to is being stoned.

Im completely against legalizing it, but I am also for the de-criminalization of it as well. I have a great argument for why I'm against its legalization: My kids. I do not want them to have to struggle through school and possibly later work, because they became potheads. It doesnt make life easier, it makes it harder and life is ****ing hard enough. You should not however, be jailed for it. A simple fine for possession is ample enough punishment, particularly if the fine is rather steep for your everyday Joe Public.

Medically it should be pursued for medicinal purpose and I have no problem with those that are dying from terminal illness smoking weed. WTF is the problem, these people are dying and it may give them some comfort.

As a former pothead, when I stopped smoking weed my life became a lot more clear and easier to live. I dont expect younger people in their teens or twenties to understand. I didnt when I was their age because, like them, I was stupid. Im not against smoking weed, if you are one of the few that can maintain discipline and do it at the end of the day when your daily duties of work, and or family life are taken care of either.

I don't think this is an issue of legal or not legal. If kids want to drink they'll find a way to drink. If kids want to smoke weed or tobacco they'll find a way to do that too. It's not hard.

I think the only way you can deal with this stuff is to talk about it with your kids. You can't control the world around them and pot and alcohol aren't going anywhere whether they are legal or not.

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Not true. You dont have to be under the influence of alcohol to get a DUI. Its driving under the influence, period. You can PASS a breathalyzer and still get a DUI by law. Because breathalyzers are general purpose measuring, but since alcohol, like all drugs, affects people differently, you can actually go to jail because you are intoxicated.

People go to jail all the time under the influence of some other non-alcoholic drug like weed, pills, coke, etc. Cops get to make a judgement based on what they have seen and their own training and most times they win in court because cops are trained specifically to look for signs both in your ability to drive (why you got pulled over in the first place) and your demeanor.

Weed is illegal because Mexicans in the 20s and 30s brought it in massive quantities to the United States and young white urban and farm kids were getting high on it and the government didnt like KIDS getting high. Period.



So your saying I can get a DUI if I blow 0.00, but because my eyes are red from being sick, I still appear "under the influence" and will still get a DUI blowing 0.0

BroncoMan4ever
01-27-2009, 12:59 PM
Agreed i think i saw a stat that 1 in 6 people in jail, are there for a marijuana offense. That means that for the 2,245,189 people in jail as of 2006 that about 374,198 of them were due to weed charges. Thats alot of tax money going to house and feed these people in jail. Thats alot since they shouldnt even be there

agreed, now pass the pipe this way.

BroncoMan4ever
01-27-2009, 01:02 PM
Not true. You dont have to be under the influence of alcohol to get a DUI. Its driving under the influence, period. You can PASS a breathalyzer and still get a DUI by law. Because breathalyzers are general purpose measuring, but since alcohol, like all drugs, affects people differently, you can actually go to jail because you are intoxicated.

People go to jail all the time under the influence of some other non-alcoholic drug like weed, pills, coke, etc. Cops get to make a judgement based on what they have seen and their own training and most times they win in court because cops are trained specifically to look for signs both in your ability to drive (why you got pulled over in the first place) and your demeanor.

Weed is illegal because Mexicans in the 20s and 30s brought it in massive quantities to the United States and young white urban and farm kids were getting high on it and the government didnt like KIDS getting high. Period.

no the government doesn't give a **** about the american people, they keep it illegal because there is very little money in weed for them. the best drugs aren't made in america, and because of that they can't make wads of cash on it.

Peoples Champ
01-27-2009, 01:05 PM
no the government doesn't give a **** about the american people, they keep it illegal because there is very little money in weed for them. the best drugs aren't made in america, and because of that they can't make wads of cash on it.



Thats why I agree with Chris rock, the governement doesnt care about the safety of the kids, they sell Guns at Walmart.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 01:24 PM
Not True.
Any experienced user can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that driving after smoking is safe. I'm much more attentive and cautious when driving after smoking. Those who think it's dangerous to drive and smoke obviously don't smoke and have a narrow view.
I'm not saying anyone can do it, drugs effect people in different ways, but it is my belief marijuana (in moderation) doesn't physically impair a person in a manner that would make it unsafe for them to drive.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 01:26 PM
In your attempt to contribute to a non-biased conversation you just came off as very "holier than thou."

There are plenty of people who smoke and hit the grind every day at work....I respect your decision to stay clean but by calling it a "pissant" drug you are throwing negative connotations towards those who do partake... I am throwing negative connotations at the drug itself, something which I will make no apologies for. I think smoking pot is a dumb choice with more bad than good to come from it, but I think people should have the right to make that choice regardless of my feelings on the matter.

I would rather be driving next to someone who is high than somebody who is babbling away on their phone, changing the radio station and text messaging... Try it sometime. I'll take the later everytime, even though both are big problems.

there are plenty of "more dangerous" things you can do while driving, many of them are actually (mindbogglingly) still legal. So what? What's that got to do with driving while high?

I'm sure if numbers were tallied the number of peopel in accidents because of phones woudl outweigh those that are caused by MJ..... I doubt that, but feel free to post the stats if you have them.

Plus, the problem I have with your argument at certain points is that, like many of the people who make the rules, you've never tried it...it doesnt invalidate your argument but it does make your personal experience (driving on it) a bit construed. I've never committed murder either, so does that mean I should have no opinion on why it's bad?

Now you see why the "well, you've never done it!" argument rarely works.

And there is zero excuse for driving in an impaired state. If people want to sit around their homes and get high, drunk, whatever...that's fine, it's their life.

When you get behind the wheel in an impaired you are not only risking your life but those of innocent people all around you. That is flat out WRONG, and the fact that some of you try to justify it is nothing short of sickening.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Any experienced user can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that driving after smoking is safe. I'm much more attentive and cautious when driving after smoking. Those who think it's dangerous to drive and smoke obviously don't smoke and have a narrow view.
I'm not saying anyone can do it, drugs effect people in different ways, but it is my belief marijuana (in moderation) doesn't physically impair a person in a manner that would make it unsafe for them to drive.

This is simply mind boggling. Like, I can't even begin to comprehend the ignorance I'm reading here.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2009, 01:28 PM
Any experienced user can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that driving after smoking is safe. I'm much more attentive and cautious when driving after smoking. Those who think it's dangerous to drive and smoke obviously don't smoke and have a narrow view.
I'm not saying anyone can do it, drugs effect people in different ways, but it is my belief marijuana (in moderation) doesn't physically impair a person in a manner that would make it unsafe for them to drive.

Disagree.

From my experience, it's the same as booze. You can drive perfectly fine after a few drinks/mild buzz. But after a lot of drinks, it's a no go.

Weed? Sure, you're fine after a few hits. But if you are truly baked, you have no business getting behind the wheel. You are anything but "more attentive." If you say you are, it's because you are not truly baked.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 01:30 PM
Disagree.

From my experience, it's the same as booze. You can drive perfectly fine after a few drinks/mild buzz. But after a lot of drinks, it's a no go.

Weed? Sure, you're fine after a few hits. But if you are truly baked, you have no business getting behind the wheel. You are anything but "more attentive." If you say you are, it's because you are not truly baked.

Thank you!

I can't believe this point even has to be argued.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 01:31 PM
This is simply mind boggling. Like, I can't even begin to comprehend the ignorance I'm reading here.

Earth-shattering counterpoint right here. Do you smoke marijuana?
Disagree.

From my experience, it's the same as booze. You can drive perfectly fine after a few drinks/mild buzz. But after a lot of drinks, it's a no go.

Weed? Sure, you're fine after a few hits. But if you are truly baked, you have no business getting behind the wheel. You are anything but "more attentive." If you say you are, it's because you are not truly baked.


Notice I mentioned in moderation?

Los Broncos
01-27-2009, 01:34 PM
Any experienced user can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that driving after smoking is safe. I'm much more attentive and cautious when driving after smoking. Those who think it's dangerous to drive and smoke obviously don't smoke and have a narrow view.
I'm not saying anyone can do it, drugs effect people in different ways, but it is my belief marijuana (in moderation) doesn't physically impair a person in a manner that would make it unsafe for them to drive.

Dead on, we at least it doesn't affect my driving.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 01:35 PM
Earth-shattering counterpoint right here. Do you smoke marijuana? Would a person who doesn't drink not know that you shouldn't drink and drive?

Exactly. :notthissh

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 01:35 PM
Dead on, we at least it doesn't affect my driving.

Now I know YOU are smarter than this.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2009, 01:36 PM
Notice I mentioned in moderation?

One can drink in moderation and still be too impaired to drive. Same with smoking IMO.

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 01:38 PM
LOL at the people that think they are more attentive after being baked.

Los Broncos
01-27-2009, 01:39 PM
Now I know YOU are smarter than this.

First of all I don't get all blazed up then jump behind a wheel of a car, so you are right I am smarter.

After a few hits I can drive just fine.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 01:46 PM
Would a person who doesn't drink not know that you shouldn't drink and drive?

Exactly. :notthissh

Of course not. Alcohol has shown to greatly impair one's ability to operate a motor vehicle, among a slew of other detrimental physical effects.

Marijuana, not so much. Some gov't funded studies would like you to believe it does, just like they like you to believe one joint is equivalent to 10 cigarettes.
Some independent studies claim low to moderate effect on drivers.

Being drunk and being high are completely different, and shouldn't really be compared IMO.

One can drink in moderation and still be too impaired to drive. Same with smoking IMO.

Indeed. But there is a distinct alcohol to blood ratio that determines one's level of intoxication.
There isn't a marijuana "B.A.", because the effects aren't comparable, nor do they elevate with extended use the same way alcohol does.
If that makes sense.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 01:49 PM
LOL at the people that think they are more attentive after being baked.

It's not like you hallucinate or become a complete retard when you smoke. Only idiots claim or act out either.
Do you smoke?

Ambiguous
01-27-2009, 01:58 PM
That's just it though. They can't tax it. I could grow a years supply in my closet and the Gov would never see a dime from it.

You could probably use your bathtub to make a year's supply of Gin too, I doubt many people are doing that though.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 02:01 PM
Of course not. Alcohol has shown to greatly impair one's ability to operate a motor vehicle.

So has pot, mainly due to the effect it has on reaction times.

But I guess all the accidents attributed to drivers who were high is just a coincidence right?



Indeed. But there is a distinct alcohol to blood ratio that determines one's level of intoxication. There isn't a marijuana "B.A.", because the effects aren't comparable, nor do they elevate with extended use the same way alcohol does.
If that makes sense. Isn't that more reason to NOT drive while high? Knowing that you can't really measure it?

Or are you fine risking the lives of innocent drivers to make that gamble?

Ambiguous
01-27-2009, 02:03 PM
So your saying I can get a DUI if I blow 0.00, but because my eyes are red from being sick, I still appear "under the influence" and will still get a DUI blowing 0.0

Field sobriety test. If you are so sick that you can't walk in a straight line or appear sober you shouldn't be driving anyway.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:04 PM
So has pot, mainly due to the effect it has on reaction times.

But I guess all the accidents attributed to drivers who were high is just a coincidence right?



Isn't that more reason to NOT drive while high? Knowing that you can't really measure it?

Or are you fine risking the lives of innocent drivers to make that gamble?

Aren't you some kind of LEO?

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:08 PM
The study examined 1,882 accidents in seven states, all of which resulted in the driver's death. In each case, blood drawn from the driver was tested for traces of 24 drugs. Based on official records, a researcher who did not know the results of the drug test independently assessed the driver's responsibility for the accident.

Drivers under the influence of alcohol alone (about 40 percent of the sample) were significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be deemed responsible for their accidents. But drivers under the influence of marijuana alone (about 1 percent of the sample) were no more likely than drug-free drivers to be deemed responsible. "There was no indication that cannabis (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Cannabis) by itself was a cause of fatal crashes," the report says.

This result does not prove that driving under the influence of marijuana is safe. But it does indicate that the drug's current role in fatal accidents is minor, and it jibes with laboratory research finding that marijuana impairs motor coordination (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Motor+coordination)
Fine motor coordination less than alcohol does.

Marijuana legalization probably would mean more stoned drivers. The number of users would increase, and current users would be more likely to smoke pot away from home. But given the evidence that people use alcohol less when they use pot more (see Trends, July 1993), marijuana legalization could also mean fewer drunk drivers. If drunk drivers are a lot more likely to cause accidents--a conclusion supported by the NHTSA (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/NHTSA) NHTSA National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (US government)
..... Click the link for more information. study--the number of traffic fatalities might stay about the same, or even decline.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:09 PM
By Drs. Lynn Zimmer and John Morgan. New York: The Lindesmith Center
Myth: Marijuana Use is a Major Cause Of Highway Accidents. Like alcohol, marijuana impairs psychomotor function and decreases driving ability. If marijuana use increases, an increase in of traffic fatalities is inevitable.
Fact: There is no compelling evidence that marijuana contributes substantially to traffic accidents and fatalities. At some doses, marijuana affects perception and psychomotor performances- changes which could impair driving ability. However, in driving studies, marijuana produces little or no car-handling impairment- consistently less than produced by low moderate doses of alcohol and many legal medications. In contrast to alcohol, which tends to increase risky driving practices, marijuana tends to make subjects more cautious. Surveys of fatally injured drivers show that when THC is detected in the blood, alcohol is almost always detected as well. For some individuals, marijuana may play a role in bad driving. The overall rate of highway accidents appears not to be significantly affected by marijuana's widespread use in society.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:12 PM
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/01pot-related.htm

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:13 PM
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_driving3.shtml

Broncoman13
01-27-2009, 02:21 PM
Used to smoke it, couldn't in the Marines, now don't as a parent, but certainly have nothing against people doing it.

Also, I'm 110% certain that if the US was capable of growing it the best and in turn greatly profitting off of it, then it would be completely legal.

Take off Rev's name, replace Marines with Air Force/DoD and this is my response.

vancejohnson82
01-27-2009, 02:22 PM
just because they pull drugs out of someones system doesnt mean they were under the effects of it....

if somebody toked a month ago it would be drawn in the blood sample...but i guess he was still high, right?

the problem with this argument is that the people who don't smoke believe that the people who do smoke are somehow jeopardizing their safety, which coudl be true of ANYTHING we allow in the United States...including guns, pitbulls, alcohol, fast cars, etc...

The reason I brought up the fact that some people havent tried it is because i can sit here and say, "Motorcross is dumb because people get hurt doing it and it isnt worth the risk...." But I've never participated so how would i know anything about it...thats all


sorry, i have to leave the convo because my attention span is short and i have to go smoke and drive with my eyes closed

DenverBrit
01-27-2009, 02:22 PM
Legalize it.

Tax it.

Save the billions spent in drug enforcement and prison time.

Result?? Use the billions in revenue to create new jobs and reduce the deficit.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 02:24 PM
Aren't you some kind of LEO?

Working on it.

As for all those things you posted, color me unimpressed. Myself and anyone who has been around someone who is truly high can tell you that they should NEVER be behind the wheel of car.

If you feel it's so safe, would you put your mother/father/loved one in a vehicle with someone who was high?

I think not.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 02:27 PM
the problem with this argument is that the people who don't smoke believe that the people who do smoke are somehow jeopardizing their safety, which coudl be true of ANYTHING we allow in the United States...including guns, pitbulls, alcohol, fast cars, etc...

The reason I brought up the fact that some people havent tried it is because i can sit here and say, "Motorcross is dumb because people get hurt doing it and it isnt worth the risk...." But I've never participated so how would i know anything about it...thats all

Wrong. I have no problem with someone making those chooses when it's just their life on the line. When you do something that could seriously injure or even kill someone who is innocent and uninvolved, THEN thats a problem.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:33 PM
Working on it.

As for all those things you posted, color me unimpressed. Myself and anyone who has been around someone who is truly high can tell you that they should NEVER be behind the wheel of car.

If you feel it's so safe, would you put your mother/father/loved one in a vehicle with someone who was high?

I think not.
I think we will have to agree to disagree. Idiots will always be idiots, when I'm high I'm completely cognizant, coherent and aware. But, I don't smoke till I pass out or try to smoke as much as I can. I prefer less than a half gram in a sitting. Some people like to get flat out retarded and think of marijuana as an activity. I suppose I wouldn't prefer they drive my loved one's around, high or not.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 02:35 PM
I think we will have to agree to disagree. Idiots will always be idiots, when I'm high I'm completely cognizant, coherent and aware. But, I don't smoke till I pass out or try to smoke as much as I can. I prefer less than a half gram in a sitting. Some people like to get flat out retarded and think of marijuana as an activity. I suppose I wouldn't prefer they drive my loved one's around, high or not.

I think we have differing opinions of what "high" really is.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:40 PM
I think we have differing opinions of what "high" really is.

Most likely. I consider myself a functional stoner, but hardly anyone knows I smoke. Even though I do nearly every day.
Based on your career, or pursuit thereof, I think we will always be on the opposite side of the fence when it comes to marijuana. That said, I still respect and consider your opinions and posts. I feel I came off a little preachy or rude earlier.

Bronx33
01-27-2009, 02:43 PM
Most likely. I consider myself a functional stoner, but hardly anyone knows I smoke. Even though I do nearly every day.
Based on your career, or pursuit thereof, I think we will always be on the opposite side of the fence when it comes to marijuana. That said, I still respect and consider your opinions and posts. I feel I came off a little preachy or rude earlier.


Iam soooooooo visiting ft collins. :~ohyah!:

gyldenlove
01-27-2009, 02:44 PM
The study examined 1,882 accidents in seven states, all of which resulted in the driver's death. In each case, blood drawn from the driver was tested for traces of 24 drugs. Based on official records, a researcher who did not know the results of the drug test independently assessed the driver's responsibility for the accident.

Drivers under the influence of alcohol alone (about 40 percent of the sample) were significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be deemed responsible for their accidents. But drivers under the influence of marijuana alone (about 1 percent of the sample) were no more likely than drug-free drivers to be deemed responsible. "There was no indication that cannabis (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Cannabis) by itself was a cause of fatal crashes," the report says.

This result does not prove that driving under the influence of marijuana is safe. But it does indicate that the drug's current role in fatal accidents is minor, and it jibes with laboratory research finding that marijuana impairs motor coordination (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Motor+coordination)
Fine motor coordination less than alcohol does.

Marijuana legalization probably would mean more stoned drivers. The number of users would increase, and current users would be more likely to smoke pot away from home. But given the evidence that people use alcohol less when they use pot more (see Trends, July 1993), marijuana legalization could also mean fewer drunk drivers. If drunk drivers are a lot more likely to cause accidents--a conclusion supported by the NHTSA (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/NHTSA) NHTSA National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (US government)
..... Click the link for more information. study--the number of traffic fatalities might stay about the same, or even decline.

I don't think 18 cases is enough to be statistically significant compared to background noise.

In this it is also not noted what levels of cannabis in the blood were accepted as being under the influence, THC can be measured in the blood quite a while after the effects have worn off, whereas alcohol is cleared from the system when the effect subsides.

The reports you post are quite inconclusive, and the experiments are performed with quite low doses compared to what is used by regular users of cannabis products.

Florida_Bronco
01-27-2009, 02:48 PM
Most likely. I consider myself a functional stoner, but hardly anyone knows I smoke. Even though I do nearly every day. True. When I say "high" I think someone who is clearly impaired, like a drunk. Buzzed is just...buzzed.

Based on your career, or pursuit thereof, I think we will always be on the opposite side of the fence when it comes to marijuana. That said, I still respect and consider your opinions and posts. I feel I came off a little preachy or rude earlier.

Well now remember, I don't oppose making it legal :thumbsup:

I have many friends, including a very close one, who use fairly consistently. I don't judge or discriminate against those who use. I don't agree with the choice, but it's their choice to make. Thankfully they understand that my career could come between that so they don't do it around me, so everyone is happy. 8')

But it just fires me up when pot, booze, whatever, can hurt or kill innocents. No one should have to experience that.

But here's to being safe no matter what, and a good debate. :thumbsup:

BoulderBum
01-27-2009, 02:55 PM
The problem with weed is the same as alcohol. Abuse leads to destructive behavior. Look, its not going to kill you, its not going to get you physically addicted, but what weed will do, with heavy prolonged use, is kill your ambition. That is not a myth, that is fact. I've seen it far far too many times and myself was a victim of it. Sure, there are a few who can function and keep it in moderation, but by and large, the potheads out there are worthless to everyone. They have no desire to work and the only thing they look forward to is being stoned.

Im completely against legalizing it, but I am also for the de-criminalization of it as well. I have a great argument for why I'm against its legalization: My kids. I do not want them to have to struggle through school and possibly later work, because they became potheads. It doesnt make life easier, it makes it harder and life is ****ing hard enough. You should not however, be jailed for it. A simple fine for possession is ample enough punishment, particularly if the fine is rather steep for your everyday Joe Public.

Medically it should be pursued for medicinal purpose and I have no problem with those that are dying from terminal illness smoking weed. WTF is the problem, these people are dying and it may give them some comfort.

As a former pothead, when I stopped smoking weed my life became a lot more clear and easier to live. I dont expect younger people in their teens or twenties to understand. I didnt when I was their age because, like them, I was stupid. Im not against smoking weed, if you are one of the few that can maintain discipline and do it at the end of the day when your daily duties of work, and or family life are taken care of either.

DING. As a current pothead, I hope it is never legalized. Although I enjoy smoking very much, after smoking for a year or so, I realize its not the physical risk of alcohol or cigs, but it KILLS your ambition. Also, any stoner can say weed is not addictive, but the truth is that its very easy to develop a dependency on weed. At times its all you look forward to. I wish I had never smoked and have had an extremely hard time quitting.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 02:56 PM
True. When I say "high" I think someone who is clearly impaired, like a drunk. Buzzed is just...buzzed.



Well now remember, I don't oppose making it legal :thumbsup:

I have many friends, including a very close one, who use fairly consistently. I don't judge or discriminate against those who use. I don't agree with the choice, but it's their choice to make. Thankfully they understand that my career could come between that so they don't do it around me, so everyone is happy. 8')

But it just fires me up when pot, booze, whatever, can hurt or kill innocents. No one should have to experience that.

But here's to being safe no matter what, and a good debate. :thumbsup:
Right on, it seems you are a diamond in the rough! Its refreshing that you would feel that way.

I don't think 18 cases is enough to be statistically significant compared to background noise.

In this it is also not noted what levels of cannabis in the blood were accepted as being under the influence, THC can be measured in the blood quite a while after the effects have worn off, whereas alcohol is cleared from the system when the effect subsides.

The reports you post are quite inconclusive, and the experiments are performed with quite low doses compared to what is used by regular users of cannabis products.

Feel free to post a counter argument. There isn't a whole lot out there on the subject.
I remember reading a study that examined how much marijuana a person would have to smoke to emulate the impairment of a persona with a .08 BAC, and it was impossible.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 02:58 PM
Any experienced user can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that driving after smoking is safe. I'm much more attentive and cautious when driving after smoking. Those who think it's dangerous to drive and smoke obviously don't smoke and have a narrow view.
I'm not saying anyone can do it, drugs effect people in different ways, but it is my belief marijuana (in moderation) doesn't physically impair a person in a manner that would make it unsafe for them to drive.

I have known people who smoked and drive, while most of the time there is no issue - to say it does not impare you is silly. Also, i have a few law enforcement members as family, and there are accidents where people are just to stoned to know exactly what they are doing. While it's nothing big or major (like backing into the dumpster at 7-11), it does show that some people can't drive, and those people don't need to be stoned. lol

Don Flamenco
01-27-2009, 03:01 PM
Not true. You dont have to be under the influence of alcohol to get a DUI. Its driving under the influence, period. You can PASS a breathalyzer and still get a DUI by law. Because breathalyzers are general purpose measuring, but since alcohol, like all drugs, affects people differently, you can actually go to jail because you are intoxicated.

People go to jail all the time under the influence of some other non-alcoholic drug like weed, pills, coke, etc. Cops get to make a judgement based on what they have seen and their own training and most times they win in court because cops are trained specifically to look for signs both in your ability to drive (why you got pulled over in the first place) and your demeanor.

Weed is illegal because Mexicans in the 20s and 30s brought it in massive quantities to the United States and young white urban and farm kids were getting high on it and the government didnt like KIDS getting high. Period.

I got a DUI and I passed the breathalyzer. I was under 21 at the time so I wasn't supposed to have any alcohol at all.

I used to smoke alot of weed. I used to love it, but for some reason started having a different effect on me. I started getting paranoid every time. So now I only do it when I know I'm gonna watch a movie or stay in. I wish it still had the same effect on me like it did back in high school. I think I smoked myself silly.

I have known people who smoked and drive, while most of the time there is no issue - to say it does not impare you is silly. Also, i have a few law enforcement members as family, and there are accidents where people are just to stoned to know exactly what they are doing. While it's nothing big or major (like backing into the dumpster at 7-11), it does show that some people can't drive, and those people don't need to be stoned. lol

Every time I get high and drive I unintentionally go 15 miles below the speed limit. Everyone seems to be going 150 MPH as they pass me.

Flex Gunmetal
01-27-2009, 03:03 PM
I have known people who smoked and drive, while most of the time there is no issue - to say it does not impare you is silly. Also, i have a few law enforcement members as family, and there are accidents where people are just to stoned to know exactly what they are doing. While it's nothing big or major (like backing into the dumpster at 7-11), it does show that some people can't drive, and those people don't need to be stoned. lol

Good point. My statement was too broad.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 03:03 PM
Look, it's cool - just understand that someone here lost their job for making statements.

I dont know what your talking about but I just want to go on record as saying.

1. I dont do drugs
2. I dont drink
3. I dont speed
4. I dont jaywalk
5. I dont let my dog run around without a leash
6. I donate to the local PD whenever they call

Carry on.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 03:04 PM
Also, anyone that says it kills your ambition: Blah blah blah. That's on you. Many people that i know, who use...don't seem to be short on ambition. Most of them are involved in some pretty complex hobbies, and have successful jobs. I think while some of that is the drug, a lot of that is you using the excuse.

Los Broncos
01-27-2009, 03:04 PM
DING. As a current pothead, I hope it is never legalized. Although I enjoy smoking very much, after smoking for a year or so, I realize its not the physical risk of alcohol or cigs, but it KILLS your ambition. Also, any stoner can say weed is not addictive, but the truth is that its very easy to develop a dependency on weed. At times its all you look forward to. I wish I had never smoked and have had an extremely hard time quitting.

Its funny I can go without for a long time and not really miss it.

But it gives energy to do ****, seems to work the other way around.

And lets not make criminals out every day people who smoke a little bud.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 03:05 PM
I dont know what your talking about but I just want to go on record as saying.

1. I dont do drugs
2. I dont drink
3. I dont speed
4. I dont jaywalk
5. I dont let my dog run around without a leash
6. I donate to the local PD whenever they call
7. I do not know Amesj523
Carry on.

:)

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 03:05 PM
LOL at the people that think they are more attentive after being baked.

No **** Ha!

gunns
01-27-2009, 03:06 PM
It doesn't seem like a particularly dangerous drung, definitely not more so than alcohol or tobacco. I don't partake in the puffing of the chiva anymore but don't see what the big deal is. I've never heard of anyone dying by smoking too much of it. It's not an addictive (it's addictability is debatable) substance, certainly no more than alcohol or tobacco. There are worse things that someone could be out there doing.

That's funny. Here chiva is heroin. Don't smoke that but do smoke weed. Been smoking it for almost 40 years. Graduated with honors from high school, granduated from college, raised 6 kids pretty much single handed, and have worked steadily for 39 years, been with the same job for 20 years. My only concern with it is if someone, mainly my kids, were to make it a lifestyle. It's for fun, recreational use. When it takes over your life, it becomes like any addiction, although weed is a mind addiction, not a true addiction.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 03:08 PM
Hey, what were we talking about again?

~Crash~
01-27-2009, 03:09 PM
tax the living hell out of it and control it that way and put a stop to illegal drugs that way . same as tobacco ....

La Caspa Del Diablo
01-27-2009, 03:10 PM
DING. As a current pothead, I hope it is never legalized. Although I enjoy smoking very much, after smoking for a year or so, I realize its not the physical risk of alcohol or cigs, but it KILLS your ambition. Also, any stoner can say weed is not addictive, but the truth is that its very easy to develop a dependency on weed. At times its all you look forward to. I wish I had never smoked and have had an extremely hard time quitting.

You bring up good points about some of the negatives of weed.

On the flip side, I think weed has helped open the doors and allowed me to view the world in a totally different light.

I don't think it's something that should be smoked everyday, but if used once a week/month, it really is a useful drug that relieves stress and helps expand your mind.

I have come up with a lot of creative ideas when I was stoned that I later applied to my life. Weed also makes you appreciate everything in the world around you, stuff that you often take for granted.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 03:13 PM
You bring up good points about some of the negatives of weed.

On the flip side, I think weed has helped open the doors and allowed me to view the world in a totally different light.

I don't think it's something that should be smoked everyday, but if used once a week/month, it really is a useful drug that relieves stress and helps expand your mind.

I have come up with a lot of creative ideas when I was stoned that I later applied to my life. Weed also makes you appreciate everything in the world around you, stuff that you often take for granted.

Weird that soulds more like shrooms or lsd ???

gunns
01-27-2009, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Flex Gunmetal
Any experienced user can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that driving after smoking is safe. I'm much more attentive and cautious when driving after smoking. Those who think it's dangerous to drive and smoke obviously don't smoke and have a narrow view.
I'm not saying anyone can do it, drugs effect people in different ways, but it is my belief marijuana (in moderation) doesn't physically impair a person in a manner that would make it unsafe for them to drive.

Nope, don't agree with this. And most smokers don't want to drive right after smoking. We just want to chill.

But there is no way on God's green (weed?) earth I would take someone texting, talking on their cell phone over someone driving after smoking weed. The cell phone users and texters are dangerous, right there with a drunk driver. A weed smoker is the one going 25 mph and paranoid as hell. ;D

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk
at the people that think they are more attentive after being baked.

What

alkemical
01-27-2009, 03:17 PM
Nope, don't agree with this. And most smokers don't want to drive right after smoking. We just want to chill.

But there is no way on God's green (weed?) earth I would take someone texting, talking on their cell phone over someone driving after smoking weed. The cell phone users and texters are dangerous, right there with a drunk driver. A weed smoker is the one going 25 mph and paranoid as hell. ;D



What

You want to call some chinese in?

La Caspa Del Diablo
01-27-2009, 03:19 PM
Weird that soulds more like shrooms or lsd ???

Of course shrooms/LSD are far more intense, but I think of some of the most crazy, off-the-wall **** when I am stoned.

I don't consider myself a funny guy, but I could write a complete stand up routine when I am high. It opens up the doors and allows you to find some of your hidden talents.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 03:23 PM
Of course shrooms/LSD are far more intense, but I think of some of the most crazy, off-the-wall **** when I am stoned.

I don't consider myself a funny guy, but I could write a complete stand up routine when I am high. It opens up the doors and allows you to find some of your hidden talents.

See, this is where people sometimes forget:

You can do it without the drugs. I don't disagree with drug usage what-so-ever...but don't think enlightenment comes in a pill*. that's what lots of burned out hippies didn't realize...the drugs wear off.

La Caspa Del Diablo
01-27-2009, 03:36 PM
See, this is where people sometimes forget:

You can do it without the drugs. I don't disagree with drug usage what-so-ever...but don't think enlightenment comes in a pill*. that's what lots of burned out hippies didn't realize...the drugs wear off.

Absolutely! Moderation. I don't advocate dependency. One joint a month isn't going to turn anybody into a burn out.

La Caspa Del Diablo
01-27-2009, 03:38 PM
I also love listening to good music when high. Especially underground rap with ill beats. It turns you out.

TDmvp
01-27-2009, 03:39 PM
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7773/atonofweed0015e713c1gj1.jpg

love it ... only thing worth doing ... they made the wrong drug legal ...

If you are at a football game , and someone is being a @hole and screaming and acting like a douche ... is he drunk or stoned ??? ...

and if you get in a traffic accident stoned you are only going 5 mph ....

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 04:26 PM
I can attest to any drug you want to post from first hand experience.

Weed definately is the least harmful of them but it isnt harmless. You will never get a pothead to admit it though.

Ive taken most every kind of pill, smoked crack, did coke (was addicted to coke for 3 years), did meth (i never did like it though), the only thing Ive never done is shoot up any drug (I took synthetic heroin, aka methadone, via pill, but no real heroin).

Peyote, Psilopsybin(sp?) mushrooms, Opium, hash, weed, 'ludes, Rohypnol (Roaches..ahh), Xanax, Valium, Vicodin, "Syrup" (aka codeine), KJ (PCP), acid (all forms, paper, liquid, gel), Ive even smoked formaldehyde laced weed (its real big in Houston and it ****s you up, probably really bad for you too).

Now, I drink beer and have limited myself to that.

Reasons are numerous. I have a family and its just not worth going to jail over something that is illegal. Not worth it. No high is worth the cost of getting caught. When you find yourself with a 3 year old and wife standing on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere while the cops search your car because they saw a pack of zig zags in your console and bring the dogs to come sniff out everything, you realize that day they nothing in life is worth losing your family over.

Besides, Id never get work done if I was stoned all the time still.

And gunns, thats such bull**** about driving 25 miles and hour when you are stoned. Its a myth perpetrated by stoners to make them seem like they arent doing anything wrong. Im an old skool stoner and while I didnt speed, I damn sure didnt drive 25 mph anywhere.

TDmvp
01-27-2009, 04:29 PM
I can attest to any drug you want to post from first hand experience.

Weed definately is the least harmful of them but it isnt harmless. You will never get a pothead to admit it though.

Ive taken most every kind of pill, smoked crack, did coke (was addicted to coke for 3 years), did meth (i never did like it though), the only thing Ive never done is shoot up any drug (I took synthetic heroin, aka methadone, via pill, but no real heroin).

Peyote, Psilopsybin(sp?) mushrooms, Opium, hash, weed, 'ludes, Rohypnol (Roaches..ahh), Xanax, Valium, Vicodin, "Syrup" (aka codeine), KJ (PCP), acid (all forms, paper, liquid, gel), Ive even smoked formaldehyde laced weed (its real big in Houston and it ****s you up, probably really bad for you too).

Now, I drink beer and have limited myself to that.

Reasons are numerous. I have a family and its just not worth going to jail over something that is illegal. Not worth it. No high is worth the cost of getting caught. When you find yourself with a 3 year old and wife standing on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere while the cops search your car because they saw a pack of zig zags in your console and bring the dogs to come sniff out everything, you realize that day they nothing in life is worth losing your family over.

Besides, Id never get work done if I was stoned all the time still.

And gunns, thats such bull**** about driving 25 miles and hour when you are stoned. Its a myth perpetrated by stoners to make them seem like they arent doing anything wrong. Im an old skool stoner and while I didnt speed, I damn sure didnt drive 25 mph anywhere.

good post ....

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 04:30 PM
I dont see anything wrong with making pot legalized.
You cant OD on it.
It is less harmful than alcohol.
I dont think you can get addicted to it.

But you have to be responsible as well.

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 04:31 PM
I can attest to any drug you want to post from first hand experience.

Weed definately is the least harmful of them but it isnt harmless. You will never get a pothead to admit it though.

Ive taken most every kind of pill, smoked crack, did coke (was addicted to coke for 3 years), did meth (i never did like it though), the only thing Ive never done is shoot up any drug (I took synthetic heroin, aka methadone, via pill, but no real heroin).

Peyote, Psilopsybin(sp?) mushrooms, Opium, hash, weed, 'ludes, Rohypnol (Roaches..ahh), Xanax, Valium, Vicodin, "Syrup" (aka codeine), KJ (PCP), acid (all forms, paper, liquid, gel), Ive even smoked formaldehyde laced weed (its real big in Houston and it ****s you up, probably really bad for you too).

Now, I drink beer and have limited myself to that.

Reasons are numerous. I have a family and its just not worth going to jail over something that is illegal. Not worth it. No high is worth the cost of getting caught. When you find yourself with a 3 year old and wife standing on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere while the cops search your car because they saw a pack of zig zags in your console and bring the dogs to come sniff out everything, you realize that day they nothing in life is worth losing your family over.

Besides, Id never get work done if I was stoned all the time still.

And gunns, thats such bull**** about driving 25 miles and hour when you are stoned. Its a myth perpetrated by stoners to make them seem like they arent doing anything wrong. Im an old skool stoner and while I didnt speed, I damn sure didnt drive 25 mph anywhere.

i know that i am sure to drive the exact spped limit if not slower

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 04:33 PM
It's not like you hallucinate or become a complete retard when you smoke. Only idiots claim or act out either.
Do you smoke?
Nope.

Now had you asked "Did you ever smoke" my answer would be "More than you could possibly imagine"

SouthStndJunkie
01-27-2009, 04:34 PM
All right fellas....just got back from the store with the requisite grub:

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 04:35 PM
i know that i am sure to drive the exact spped limit if not slower

Most alcoholics drive the speed limit too when they are drunk. You rarely see people getting DWI's because they were speeding.

SouthStndJunkie
01-27-2009, 04:36 PM
Got some of these as well:

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 04:37 PM
All right fellas....just got back from the store with the requisite grub:

You know, after the first year or so, I stopped getting the munchies. Too ****ing lazy to go find anything I guess. I remember that first year me and my friends essentially forced Waffle House to stop offering "All You Can Eat" :)

SouthStndJunkie
01-27-2009, 04:51 PM
You know, after the first year or so, I stopped getting the munchies. Too ****ing lazy to go find anything I guess. I remember that first year me and my friends essentially forced Waffle House to stop offering "All You Can Eat" :)

I am usually up for getting my grub on.

Pass me a Dew.

cutthemdown
01-27-2009, 04:56 PM
keep it illegal. If we made it legal it would destroy the value you of weed and our whole economy is based on it right now. Turns out we have been on the weed standard since K-U-S-H became more valuable then gold.

If it was legal then the local dealer man would be out of business adding another 4% to the unemployed, sapping services. Also because prices would go down stoners would actually smoke more causing an average of 10 more working days a yr missed due to getting high and gaming out all day long instead of working.

This would also lead to increase in fast food purchases, which in turn make people fatter, and then they need more medical care to the tune 30 thousand more per stoner, per lifetime.

It's like adding a weasel to kill the snakes, they might jut eat all your weed gardens instead, YA DIG!!!!

gunns
01-27-2009, 04:58 PM
And gunns, thats such bull**** about driving 25 miles and hour when you are stoned. Its a myth perpetrated by stoners to make them seem like they arent doing anything wrong. Im an old skool stoner and while I didnt speed, I damn sure didnt drive 25 mph anywhere.

Uh, maybe you should lay off the beers. Did you notice the smiley face next to that statement. It was stereotypical sarcasm.

cutthemdown
01-27-2009, 04:59 PM
WATCH THIS

http://www.spike.com/video/marijuana-driving/2801849

ChampBailey24
01-27-2009, 05:09 PM
great video

BoulderBum
01-27-2009, 05:31 PM
WATCH THIS

http://www.spike.com/video/marijuana-driving/2801849

Yep.

colonelbeef
01-27-2009, 05:53 PM
should be legal and regulated like alcohol is, only reason it isn't is because of the tobacco lobby.

Don Flamenco
01-27-2009, 05:57 PM
War on drugs, imho

alkemical
01-27-2009, 07:30 PM
War on drugs, imho

War on SOME drugs....

~Crash~
01-27-2009, 07:44 PM
if you want to ban something ban tobaco I hate the **** smoked 15 years of pure hell and sore ass lungs.

~Crash~
01-27-2009, 07:46 PM
I can come up with a reason to keep pot band though contact high ...other wise who gives a rats ass ...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-27-2009, 08:07 PM
Weed:What's Your Take?

Like alcohol and other psychoactive drugs, it's a crutch and a cop-out for people who are too lazy, weak, or afraid to do the hard work required for genuine and lasting inner transformation, personal growth, etc.

As for the legal issue, I'm for decriminalization (treatment instead of punishment, jail, etc.) but not legalization.

We don't need any more brain-polluting poisons being marketed to our children and young people.

Hogan11
01-27-2009, 08:16 PM
I'm not into drugs. I don't care that people do them, it's just not my thing.

I drink and that's good enough for me.

Willynowei
01-27-2009, 08:26 PM
****in scumbag waste of life potheads, go ****in waste your life away keep that nasty smell out of my way you lazy ****s.

Broncobiv
01-27-2009, 09:31 PM
I don't smoke cigarettes, but I voted against my state's public smoking ban. If people wanna smoke a cigarette in a bar, fine by me. I'm not gonna light one up, but they should be able to.

Pot, OTOH, I'm a little more wary of. I definitely do not want to see it legalized to smoke in public places. I don't want a mind-altering substance (as "harmless" as it may be) entering my body simply because a couple people next to me feel like smoking it. Second hand tobacco smoke doesn't affect the workings of your brain, whereas a contact high does. So while I may not care too much if you wanna do it yourself, it should not be legal to smoke pot where it can affect nearby people who don't want to experience an actual physiological/psychoactive effect (which tobacco does not give...that's the difference).

PaintballCLE
01-27-2009, 09:44 PM
screw the weed, bring on the oxycontin (becaus me um knee thingy kinda hurts) LOL

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 09:47 PM
****in scumbag waste of life potheads, go ****in waste your life away keep that nasty smell out of my way you lazy ****s.

Willy, you shouldnt keep your feelings bottled up man.

Rock Chalk
01-27-2009, 09:48 PM
should be legal and regulated like alcohol is, only reason it isn't is because of the tobacco lobby.

Man, I keep hoping you will have something intelligent to add to the board.

Guess I will wait just a little longer.

Popps
01-27-2009, 10:34 PM
It's not my thing, but I get the legalization argument. I also see the cons, but think it's probably not worth the trouble we go through to stop it. (As opposed to other narcotics, where I believe the trouble IS worth it.)

That's the problem, it's subjective. Alcohol clearly does more damage to society, yet it's everywhere.

We've simply decided as a society that it's taboo. Sort of like prostitution.
But, it's not going anywhere.

Again, you can't just legalize everything. That's not the point. But, there are some decent arguments to be made in this case.

Wouldn't make any difference to me. But, I suppose seeing the violence from drug trafficking subside would be one of many benefits.

La Caspa Del Diablo
01-27-2009, 11:46 PM
Weed:What's Your Take?

Like alcohol and other psychoactive drugs, it's a crutch and a cop-out for people who are too lazy, weak, or afraid to do the hard work required for genuine and lasting inner transformation, personal growth, etc.

As for the legal issue, I'm for decriminalization (treatment instead of punishment, jail, etc.) but not legalization.

We don't need any more brain-polluting poisons being marketed to our children and young people.

I'm surprised this hard line stance comes from an ardent supporter of the party of "rum, Romanism and rebellion".

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 12:20 AM
LABF is his own guy. I give him that even though he hates me and we disagree and most stuff.

He has some really liberal views but also some conservative ones.

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 12:26 AM
It's not my thing, but I get the legalization argument. I also see the cons, but think it's probably not worth the trouble we go through to stop it. (As opposed to other narcotics, where I believe the trouble IS worth it.)

That's the problem, it's subjective. Alcohol clearly does more damage to society, yet it's everywhere.

We've simply decided as a society that it's taboo. Sort of like prostitution.
But, it's not going anywhere.

Again, you can't just legalize everything. That's not the point. But, there are some decent arguments to be made in this case.

Wouldn't make any difference to me. But, I suppose seeing the violence from drug trafficking subside would be one of many benefits.


I like your slant it opens up some good arguments to make and discuss.

If we keep it illegal, but decriminalized possession what would occur? IMO the price of pot would stay high so criminals would still want to grow and sell it. Demand would increase because maybe 10% doesn't smoke because they don't want to get in trouble. So money still lucrative, more people smoking. The question then becomes how to deal with the producers, growers, sellers etc.

Let's say we make it legal totally what would happen. Price would drop, less police needed for enforcement, govt regulates, it would be a small tax industry because it would now be so cheap. People would no longer grow it, the bottom would crop out of the small time pot grower. Big business would take over.

Or decriminalize, but allow people to grow for themselves. This would drop the price for sure, take much of the money out of the production of it but not all.

interesting IMO to think about what would really happen if we were to do certain things.

IMO weed even if legal would not overtake Alcohol and Tobacco as the USA favorites.

Elway777
01-28-2009, 01:04 AM
Hemp could solve our energy crisis. The united states could grew on 6 % of our land enough ethanol cover all our energy needs. As the price of making cellose ethanol get lower in a couple of years it should be less then a dollar to produce a gallon of ethanol out of Hemp.

Dedhed
01-28-2009, 03:01 AM
There's no logical argument that can be made for why marijuana is illegal and alcohol is not.

alkemical
01-28-2009, 06:23 AM
Well there is...

vancejohnson82
01-28-2009, 06:40 AM
Weed:What's Your Take?

Like alcohol and other psychoactive drugs, it's a crutch and a cop-out for people who are too lazy, weak, or afraid to do the hard work required for genuine and lasting inner transformation, personal growth, etc..


Yea....sure...I hope you or some sort of pastor or have been literally through some of the most amazing personal transformations known to man...pretty much just short of turning into a butterfly....because that was real snotty

Peoples Champ
01-28-2009, 07:06 AM
Field sobriety test. If you are so sick that you can't walk in a straight line or appear sober you shouldn't be driving anyway.



So if I pass a field sobriety test, and blow 0.0, I can be as high as I want?

alkemical
01-28-2009, 07:06 AM
He does make a point, enlightenment doesn't come in a pill. What do you do after the drugs wear off... That's his point.

vancejohnson82
01-28-2009, 07:11 AM
He does make a point, enlightenment doesn't come in a pill. What do you do after the drugs wear off... That's his point.

what is this "enlightenment" that everyone speaks of??? I dont think any person has a clue because it comes in different forms to everyone. If it takes someone a "trip" or a day in the park smoking weed to have a personal realization, why is that a cop-out?

I dont think anyone is in the position to tell someone that their personal growth is fake or not real just because drugs happened to be a part of it...

That's my point

Peoples Champ
01-28-2009, 07:11 AM
saliva


I didnt know they can test saliva? So if you appear driving under the influence, and you pass breathalizer and field sobriety test, they pull out a saliva tester? Or do they bring you in and test it at police station after you blew 0.0 and passed Sobriety test?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-28-2009, 08:09 AM
He does make a point, enlightenment doesn't come in a pill. What do you do after the drugs wear off... That's his point.

Ding ding ding! :yep:

Thanks for getting it. :thumbs:

NeverBeenToDenver
01-28-2009, 08:35 AM
I wasted years and years of youth and countless opportunity. Have smoked heavily since 1993 and want to quit really bad. It mars your emotional maturing process, averts the hard reality of certain aspects in life, and pulls you off your true path. While I'm experienced and relatively wise for my age, I have badly stunted coping skills; there are certain times I act like the 17 year old boy I was before the dope years.

Stay the f*ck away. If I had a 15 year old son caught smoking reefer, I'd kick his ass. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to puff on a joint so I can sit around playing poker online instead of the one million things I need to do for a better life.

NeverBeenToDenver
01-28-2009, 08:37 AM
BTW- for those younger potheads, I've been in court ordered outpatient rehab and also met quite a few middle aged dope fiends due to my job. Let me tell you, there is nothing worse than a burnt out old man rambling about some mind blowing show he saw 20 years ago.

Arkie
01-28-2009, 08:42 AM
couldn't say it any better than this...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/foFbFOxbPJk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/foFbFOxbPJk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

alkemical
01-28-2009, 08:59 AM
I didnt know they can test saliva? So if you appear driving under the influence, and you pass breathalizer and field sobriety test, they pull out a saliva tester? Or do they bring you in and test it at police station after you blew 0.0 and passed Sobriety test?

http://www.craigmedical.com/salivascreen5_drug_tests.htm

alkemical
01-28-2009, 09:05 AM
Ding ding ding! :yep:

Thanks for getting it. :thumbs:

And i'm a proponent for the usage of drugs in certain ways. But it's about set & setting, responsibility, etc.

I studied with a shaman for a bit, and i really learned how to respect the "plant/drug". It's not to be just a recreation thing, to be used beneficially IMO. If you are getting stoned and coming up with philosophical ideas, cool - but if you don't DO anything with them - they do no good.

Theory is not the same and doing the class work.

So, while you may get some enlightenment out of a moment of being high, it doesn't do near the benefits of sticking with a meditation routine, or doing your art*, etc. That's the problem most get caught up in.

I've known several pot-smoking peoples in my day. There is a small % (lets say 15%) that are productive.

Peoples Champ
01-28-2009, 09:14 AM
http://www.craigmedical.com/salivascreen5_drug_tests.htm



Thats cool, I didnt know cops could pull that out if they think your under the influence and you pass both drinking tests. I have never known anybody to get one of those saliva tests, but I guess i dont know that many potheads.

Broncos_OTM
01-28-2009, 09:22 AM
Used to smoke it, couldn't in the Marines, now don't as a parent, but certainly have nothing against people doing it.

Also, I'm 110% certain that if the US was capable of growing it the best and in turn greatly profitting off of it, then it would be completely legal.

Its possible to grow it in the US. is it tough to grow of course but tottaly doable

cutthemdown
01-28-2009, 09:31 AM
I couldn't find the article again but I read once that in the US alone companies and the govt spend upwards of 2-3 billion dollars a yr on pre-employment drug screenings.

How's that for job creation baby!!!! All those lab workers getting to spin urine in a centrifuge. LOL i don't know if that's what they do but you get the point.

vancejohnson82
01-28-2009, 09:51 AM
BTW- for those younger potheads, I've been in court ordered outpatient rehab and also met quite a few middle aged dope fiends due to my job. Let me tell you, there is nothing worse than a burnt out old man rambling about some mind blowing show he saw 20 years ago.

there is no way somebody who smoked weed before a show is "rambling on" about a show twenty years ago...i guarantee that burnt out old man was on some heavier stuff

and so what?? what if he's happy? I thought in America we were given the opportunity to make choices....I'm sure the alcoholic who sits in a bar for 8 hours a day is no better or worse than the hippie who gets stoned and plays his guitar all day...

a lot of people on this subject are talking about weed as if it brings you to this NEXT LEVEL TYPE STUFF, where people are staring into space and coming up with theories on life....

I go to work for eight or nine hours a day, get home, smoke some, make myself dinner and either write or watch a movie...in between I have normal interactions with my roommates, talk with my parents, etc, etc....

To each his own but for those of you who get super duper high or have emotional problems when you smoke it, I would probably quit

Peoples Champ
01-28-2009, 10:12 AM
and so what?? what if he's happy? I thought in America we were given the opportunity to make choices....




Yes, life , liberty , and the pursuit of happiness.

vancejohnson82
01-28-2009, 10:18 AM
Yes, life , liberty , and the pursuit of happiness.

exactly...if there are men and women who can go out there and film each other having sex and spreading diseases, I dont see how we can tell the stoner that he can't toke some chronic and work 3 hours a day

Rock Chalk
01-28-2009, 10:19 AM
Yes, life , liberty , and the pursuit of happiness.

Provided you dont step on anyone else's pursuit of happiness. The problem with drugs is, inevitably they hurt other people around the user.

A pothead mom or dad that doesnt get off his or her ass to go work to support his or her family is hurting other people in his or her pursuit of happiness. Without work, there is no money to buy weed and eventually those people WILL end up stealing money to support themselves and their habit. The drug doesnt have to be hardcore for people to steal to get some of it.

alkemical
01-28-2009, 10:25 AM
BTW- for those younger potheads, I've been in court ordered outpatient rehab and also met quite a few middle aged dope fiends due to my job. Let me tell you, there is nothing worse than a burnt out old man rambling about some mind blowing show he saw 20 years ago.

You mean like those old guys at the bar?

alkemical
01-28-2009, 10:26 AM
Provided you dont step on anyone else's pursuit of happiness. The problem with drugs is, inevitably they hurt other people around the user.

A pothead mom or dad that doesnt get off his or her ass to go work to support his or her family is hurting other people in his or her pursuit of happiness. Without work, there is no money to buy weed and eventually those people WILL end up stealing money to support themselves and their habit. The drug doesnt have to be hardcore for people to steal to get some of it.

So...what about the pothead parent who does go to work, and each of them are making a combined household income of $150k/yr?

vancejohnson82
01-28-2009, 10:30 AM
So...what about the pothead parent who does go to work, and each of them are making a combined household income of $150k/yr?

I think the amount of families destroyed by alcohol far outweighs those broken up by marijuana

Obviously, I don't have stats but I think the numbers would be lopsided

Peoples Champ
01-28-2009, 10:30 AM
Provided you dont step on anyone else's pursuit of happiness. The problem with drugs is, inevitably they hurt other people around the user.

A pothead mom or dad that doesnt get off his or her ass to go work to support his or her family is hurting other people in his or her pursuit of happiness. Without work, there is no money to buy weed and eventually those people WILL end up stealing money to support themselves and their habit. The drug doesnt have to be hardcore for people to steal to get some of it.

Yes, and so is the alcholic father. He is also hurting other people in their pursuit of hapiness. And so is the mom who smokes Cigarrettes around her kids giving them second hand smoke. And somehow those things are legal. I will never get it.

alkemical
01-28-2009, 10:51 AM
I think the amount of families destroyed by alcohol far outweighs those broken up by marijuana

Obviously, I don't have stats but I think the numbers would be lopsided

Would that be because less people smoke pot?

alkemical
01-28-2009, 10:52 AM
what is this "enlightenment" that everyone speaks of??? I dont think any person has a clue because it comes in different forms to everyone. If it takes someone a "trip" or a day in the park smoking weed to have a personal realization, why is that a cop-out?

I dont think anyone is in the position to tell someone that their personal growth is fake or not real just because drugs happened to be a part of it...

That's my point


The reason is, because it's easy to think the drugs give you the "open your mind"/"enlightenment" etc. When infact, it's you - yourself.

vancejohnson82
01-28-2009, 11:09 AM
The reason is, because it's easy to think the drugs give you the "open your mind"/"enlightenment" etc. When infact, it's you - yourself.

i also think that comes from being young...as you get older you realize that the truest form of self exploration is through examining yourself on how you react to success or tragedy....taking a drug might make you "think" that you've found out something about yourself, and this may lead to you taking that into your "sober" life....but it won't mask any of the emotions or reactions you have when you experience things great or disastrous....

I'm sure you can talk to a 17 year old who has been through hell and back and he can tell you the same thing....the people who feel as through a pill can make oneself more creative or more spiritual, may be so for a short time...but ones true self will eventually emerge and that is when we learn who we really are

as far as weed hurting people...I'm sure in some cases it can...and does weed bring about an overwhelming "good" out in the world? probably not....but for our government to have such a contradictory stance on what "drugs" are right and wrong is kind of ridiculous...i can go out, take a pill that gives me an overwhelming boner, have unprotected sex with a girl, have her abort the baby, and then take a few pills to help me sleep at night ......as much as I want

but i cant sit at home and watch a movie and smoke a joint....

Peoples Champ
01-28-2009, 11:15 AM
as far as weed hurting people...I'm sure in some cases it can...and does weed bring about an overwhelming "good" out in the world? probably not....but for our government to have such a contradictory stance on what "drugs" are right and wrong is kind of ridiculous...i can go out, take a pill that gives me an overwhelming boner, have unprotected sex with a girl, have her abort the baby, and then take a few pills to help me sleep at night ......as much as I want

but i cant sit at home and watch a movie and smoke a joint....



I agree, There are many things showing drugs to be bad, including alchohol and Cigarrettes, its all about how you use them and responsibility. You can responsibly use alcohol, or you can use it and hurt yourself and others. That goes for Weed, Cigs, and most drugs. You can even apply it to other things. You are givin responsibility to drive a car. If you use it irresponsibly, you wont be allowed to drive, but if you use it responsibly, you can drive. Same should go for alcohol and drugs. Either ban alcohol and cigs (wont happen and I dont want it to happen) or legalize other drugs and make people use them responsibly.

vancejohnson82
01-28-2009, 11:20 AM
I agree, There are many things showing drugs to be bad, including alchohol and Cigarrettes, its all about how you use them and responsibility. You can responsibly use alcohol, or you can use it and hurt yourself and others. That goes for Weed, Cigs, and most drugs. You can even apply it to other things. You are givin responsibility to drive a car. If you use it irresponsibly, you wont be allowed to drive, but if you use it responsibly, you can drive. Same should go for alcohol and drugs. Either ban alcohol and cigs (wont happen and I dont want it to happen) or legalize other drugs and make people use them responsibly.


I 100% agree....the same type of parenting that steers some kids away from alcohol will work with weed...

alkemical
01-28-2009, 11:22 AM
i also think that comes from being young...as you get older you realize that the truest form of self exploration is through examining yourself on how you react to success or tragedy....taking a drug might make you "think" that you've found out something about yourself, and this may lead to you taking that into your "sober" life....but it won't mask any of the emotions or reactions you have when you experience things great or disastrous....

I'm sure you can talk to a 17 year old who has been through hell and back and he can tell you the same thing....the people who feel as through a pill can make oneself more creative or more spiritual, may be so for a short time...but ones true self will eventually emerge and that is when we learn who we really are

Eh, not nec. Trust me, i've seen many people get lost.


as far as weed hurting people...I'm sure in some cases it can...and does weed bring about an overwhelming "good" out in the world? probably not....but for our government to have such a contradictory stance on what "drugs" are right and wrong is kind of ridiculous...i can go out, take a pill that gives me an overwhelming boner, have unprotected sex with a girl, have her abort the baby, and then take a few pills to help me sleep at night ......as much as I want

but i cant sit at home and watch a movie and smoke a joint....


As for the gov't being contradictory: Just remember it's a reflection on "we the people".