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Hotrod
01-26-2009, 03:19 PM
http://packphour.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/1.jpg

thoughts? opinons?

bronco militia
01-26-2009, 03:20 PM
http://packphour.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/1.jpg

thoughts? opinons?

what?...no poll?

Tombstone RJ
01-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Now I get it...

BroncoBuff
01-26-2009, 03:22 PM
Atheism per se is illogical.

Agnosticism on the other hand is pretty sensible. But beware the agnostic who shouts "I AM AN ATHEIST" from the rooftops. Nine times out of ten, he's just trying to p*** off persons of faith.

Kaylore
01-26-2009, 03:22 PM
Mark's an atheist.

Kaylore
01-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Atheism per se is illogical.

Agnosticism on the other hand is pretty sensible. But beware the agnostic who shouts "I AM AN ATHEIST" from the rooftops. Nine times out of ten, he's just trying to p*** off persons of faith.

The same goes for persons of faith who march around telling people they're damned.

Spider
01-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Scientology is where it is at ..........

Tombstone RJ
01-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Mark's an atheist.

I didn't think you could be an atheist and a Bronco's fan. Not possible.

Hotrod
01-26-2009, 03:25 PM
Mark's an atheist.

You know what they say

"there are not atheists in the cab of a truck during a snow storm"


Ha!

Spider
01-26-2009, 03:27 PM
You know what they say

"there are not atheists in the cab of a truck during a snow storm"


Ha!
LOL .......

Simply Red
01-26-2009, 03:36 PM
Scientology is where it is at ..........

Ha!

SonOfLe-loLang
01-26-2009, 03:38 PM
Is there really any proof either way? No, so its all "illogical!"

TheDave
01-26-2009, 03:38 PM
Scientology is where it is at ..........

**** that noise... Voodoo. :thumbs:

Tombstone RJ
01-26-2009, 03:39 PM
Is there really any proof either way? No, so its all "illogical!"

ok Spock

SportinOne
01-26-2009, 03:39 PM
I myself do not practice religion. However, I do believe that there is something beyond our comprehension out there which caused all of this to occur. Science is a wonderful thing, but it can only teach us as much as the technology extends. As the generations pass, we will learn more and more about our beginnings but will we ever get to the very bottom of it? I don't know. And that's what both religious fanatics and atheists both have to realize.. you just don't know.

So, knowing this, i try to live my life by what's "right" and "wrong" in my mind, which is loosely based off of the "golden rule". But is it all leading up to something? i think, no. But again, i don't know. Does it matter? No. Whether there is a big party up in the sky waiting for me, or i'm to be tossed in a pit of flames, or complete darkness surrounds me and i never have a thought again, i will continue to live my life and enjoy it as much as i possibly can.

Spider
01-26-2009, 03:40 PM
**** that noise... Voodoo. :thumbs:

;D I love voodoo but I cant spell it ......... Thetens Vs a spell to make some ones teeth fall out ..... iam going the easy way ;D

Eldorado
01-26-2009, 03:41 PM
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/tech_games/big_bang_theory.jpg

Hotwheelz
01-26-2009, 03:41 PM
...

SonOfLe-loLang
01-26-2009, 03:42 PM
...

lol

Hotrod
01-26-2009, 03:45 PM
I just dont understand the belief that ones long term goal is to become worm food. How depressing.

Worms eating your eyes is your destiny......really???

tsiguy96
01-26-2009, 03:47 PM
douche bag: the concept of not letting me pick what i choose to believe in without trying to force your own beliefs onto me. see: christianity.

Hotrod
01-26-2009, 03:48 PM
douche bag: the concept of not letting me pick what i choose to believe in without trying to force your own beliefs onto me. see: christianity.

your dictionary sucks

douche bag: feminine hygene product.

Hotwheelz
01-26-2009, 03:49 PM
I just dont understand the belief that ones long term goal is to become worm food. How depressing.

Worms eating your eyes is your destiny......really???

How's the fishing?

SonOfLe-loLang
01-26-2009, 03:49 PM
I just dont understand the belief that ones long term goal is to become worm food. How depressing.

Worms eating your eyes is your destiny......really???

As an athiest, its not like im looking forward to no life after death...its not something i relish or speak excitedly about...how is this my GOAL...its just nothing in my life has proven to me a god exists. Should i ignore this belief and pretend ill go to some magical kingdom in heaven?

I hope im wrong...i guess ill find out when im dead

Spider
01-26-2009, 03:50 PM
I just dont understand the belief that ones long term goal is to become worm food. How depressing.

Worms eating your eyes is your destiny......really???I am sorry to inform you that this post has been reported to PETA ........ Starving worms is cruelty mr ....... you are so gonna pay .........

Rohirrim
01-26-2009, 03:51 PM
Dortoh is an ahole.



I have proof. ;D

Eldorado
01-26-2009, 03:53 PM
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/4chan-explains-the-bible-500x533.png

Hotrod
01-26-2009, 03:53 PM
As an athiest, its not like im looking forward to no life after death...its not something i relish or speak excitedly about...how is this my GOAL...its just nothing in my life has proven to me a god exists. Should i ignore this belief and pretend ill go to some magical kingdom in heaven?

I hope im wrong...i guess ill find out when im dead


you better hope you are right..........just saying

Hotrod
01-26-2009, 03:54 PM
Dortoh is an ahole.



I have proof. ;D

Pft who doesnt :)

Hotrod
01-26-2009, 03:59 PM
I am sorry to inform you that this post has been reported to PETA ........ Starving worms is cruelty mr ....... you are so gonna pay .........

I'm dying as fast as I can here. Damn worms are gonna have to wait.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-26-2009, 03:59 PM
you better hope you are right..........just saying

haha or what?

Hotrod
01-26-2009, 04:04 PM
haha or what?

http://br.geocities.com/plasticsoul83/surprise.jpg

broncosteven
01-26-2009, 04:16 PM
I myself do not practice religion. However, I do believe that there is something beyond our comprehension out there which caused all of this to occur. Science is a wonderful thing, but it can only teach us as much as the technology extends. As the generations pass, we will learn more and more about our beginnings but will we ever get to the very bottom of it? I don't know. And that's what both religious fanatics and atheists both have to realize.. you just don't know.

So, knowing this, i try to live my life by what's "right" and "wrong" in my mind, which is loosely based off of the "golden rule". But is it all leading up to something? i think, no. But again, i don't know. Does it matter? No. Whether there is a big party up in the sky waiting for me, or i'm to be tossed in a pit of flames, or complete darkness surrounds me and i never have a thought again, i will continue to live my life and enjoy it as much as i possibly can.


Zoaraster and Budda both preached the Golden Rule about 500 years before Christ. It seems to be the only common thread among all religions, must be a good idea.

bombquixote
01-26-2009, 04:25 PM
Bokononism's where it's at.

Alkazar
01-26-2009, 04:42 PM
Zoaraster and Budda both preached the Golden Rule about 500 years before Christ. It seems to be the only common thread among all religions, must be a good idea.

As far as the basics are concerned (ie the Golden rule, no stealing, no murdering, etc), all religions are the same. It's only in some of the other specifics where religions differ.

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 04:46 PM
Atheism per se is illogical.

Agnosticism on the other hand is pretty sensible. But beware the agnostic who shouts "I AM AN ATHEIST" from the rooftops. Nine times out of ten, he's just trying to p*** off persons of faith.

no its not.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.
It is not the denial of a god.
It is not a position of knowledge, it is a position of belief.
Agnosticism is a stance on knowledge, thus is in an incomplete stance in regards to a person's belief.

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 04:47 PM
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/tech_games/big_bang_theory.jpg

not what the big bang theory says....but ok

skpac1001
01-26-2009, 05:02 PM
no its not.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.
It is not the denial of a god.
It is not a position of knowledge, it is a position of belief.
Agnosticism is a stance on knowledge, thus is in an incomplete stance in regards to a person's belief.

I looked it up a long time ago, and as I understood it, atheism is just what you would think, breaking it down.... a-theism, i.e. does not believe in a theistic god. Agnosticism does believe in a theistic god, but is not sure which. I am not sure if this is the official definition according to whatever, but it is what I have gone by, and to me atheism and theism both make far more logical sense then agnosticism, at least under this definition.

Edit: By the way, i am not disagreeing with you, I just chose your post to expand on. I agree completely that atheism is, for me at least, a position on belief itself rather then a particular belief of its own. People get atheism and science mixed up, making fun of the big bang theory or evolution does not bother me, my atheism is independent of current scientific theory.

slyinky
01-26-2009, 05:03 PM
Zoaraster and Budda both preached the Golden Rule about 500 years before Christ. It seems to be the only common thread among all religions, must be a good idea.
As far as the basics are concerned (ie the Golden rule, no stealing, no murdering, etc), all religions are the same. It's only in some of the other specifics where religions differ.

Despite the variations between religions, the Golden Rule, it seems, is shared amongst all religious doctrine.:D

BroncoBuff
01-26-2009, 05:41 PM
Mark's an atheist.

I must be out of the loop ... I didn't know who the Mark in El Paso was, and I don't know who this Mark is either ... ???

NUB
01-26-2009, 05:43 PM
The "Golden Rule" exists among us as a species. If it didn't we never would have made it far enough to call the stars gods and say women came from our manly ribs.

Tombstone RJ
01-26-2009, 05:47 PM
not what the big bang theory says....but ok

The big bang theory is the biggest magic trick there is. It breaks all the rules that science claims are true, like MATTER CAN NIETHER BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED. IT CAN ONLY BE TRANSFORMED FROM ONE FORM INTO ANOTHER.

Oh really (pic of that cookie owl here)?

BroncoBuff
01-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.Your semantics are wrong. A "lack of a belief" is exactly what agnosticism is. It is neutrality ... no belief one way or the other.

"Atheism" however, is an affirmative belief no God exists.


Atheism is not a position of knowledge, it is a position of belief.
Agnosticism is a stance on knowledge, thus is in an incomplete stance in regards to a person's belief.
Here's where your semantics fail: You cannot change what words mean by creating a false dichotomy between positions of knowledge vs. belief.

Now, you say atheism is "a position of belief." But through simple semantics we all know that you cannot have a "belief" that you're not sure whether to belive somethiong. That is a NON-position, neither one nor the other. And it's called agnosticism.

When you say atheism is "a position of belief," you lose the argument ;D

chickennob2
01-26-2009, 06:48 PM
I looked it up a long time ago, and as I understood it, atheism is just what you would think, breaking it down.... a-theism, i.e. does not believe in a theistic god. Agnosticism does believe in a theistic god, but is not sure which. I am not sure if this is the official definition according to whatever, but it is what I have gone by, and to me atheism and theism both make far more logical sense then agnosticism, at least under this definition.

Edit: By the way, i am not disagreeing with you, I just chose your post to expand on. I agree completely that atheism is, for me at least, a position on belief itself rather then a particular belief of its own. People get atheism and science mixed up, making fun of the big bang theory or evolution does not bother me, my atheism is independent of current scientific theory.

An agnostic is one who accepts that the existence or absence of a supreme being is unknowable.


Personally I am an agnostic. I believe what science can attempt to prove up to the point of the big bang. I accept that whatever happened "before" that, whatever "caused" all of existence to spring into being is something that we as humans can never discover, thus it is unknowable.

NUB
01-26-2009, 06:55 PM
It's possible to be agnostic and atheist.

For instance, you don't believe any human gods are real, however, you take the position that beyond them you just don't know.

chickennob2
01-26-2009, 07:00 PM
The big bang theory is the biggest magic trick there is. It breaks all the rules that science claims are true, like MATTER CAN NIETHER BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED. IT CAN ONLY BE TRANSFORMED FROM ONE FORM INTO ANOTHER.

Oh really (pic of that cookie owl here)?

FAIL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang if that helps


First off, matter and energy are inherently the same, and the "E = MC^2" formula you've likely heard parroted your whole life explains that relationship.


The big bang describes the manner in which an infinitely massive and infinitely dense point expanded a finite period of time ago. The subsequent expansion of the universe accompanied the formation of heavier and heavier atoms, fast forward enormous periods of time to reach aggregation into stars and planets, yadda yadda yadda. Anyways, the big bang theory explains the transition from primordial singularity to the universe we know today. It does not, cannot, and does not seek to explain the origins or nature of this starting point.

So indeed, the big bang theory is not "the biggest magic trick there is," it is simply not a full explanation of existence that you want it to be. A Christian says "The universe is here because God created it. God exists because he does and always has." Someone who accepts the big bang theory says "The universe is here because it expanded from this infinitely dense mass. We have no way of knowing why that is here." Which seems more logical?

chaz
01-26-2009, 07:01 PM
Scientology is where it is at ..........

<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:104274:" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" width="480" height="360" allowFullscreen="true" scriptAccess="always"></embed>

Fedaykin
01-26-2009, 07:09 PM
The big bang theory is the biggest magic trick there is. It breaks all the rules that science claims are true, like MATTER CAN NIETHER BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED. IT CAN ONLY BE TRANSFORMED FROM ONE FORM INTO ANOTHER.

Oh really (pic of that cookie owl here)?

The rules you refer to are rules of this universe, which is the result of the Big Bang. Those rules, along with everything else, are a result of the Big Bang. Thus, they do not apply.

Spider
01-26-2009, 07:12 PM
<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:104274:" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" width="480" height="360" allowFullscreen="true" scriptAccess="always"></embed>

sounds good to me

Fedaykin
01-26-2009, 07:13 PM
http://packphour.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/1.jpg

thoughts? opinons?

Atheism posits none of that, it is simply a lack of belief in religion.

Also, you are an incredible ass.

Rock Chalk
01-26-2009, 07:14 PM
douche bag: the concept of not letting me pick what i choose to believe in without trying to force your own beliefs onto me. see: christianity.

Ahh, atheists are far far worse at that tsiguy, just much less numerous than Christians.

Christians are like PC, get a bad rap because so many of them so they are attacked more frequently.

Atheists are like Mac, the reality is every bit as ****ty, but no one cares.

I have met bad Christians in my time, judgemental pricks who despise (oddly enough, a very un-Christianlike attitude) any and all who do not believe exactly as they do.

But I have NEVER met a Christian that HATED all other people of faith for no reason other than they believed something different. Thats how EVERY atheist I have ever met is. They HATE with a vitriolic passion those that believe in something because of the few assholes of faith they have met that were in fact, just human assholes.

Fact is, atheism as much as they want to deny it, is a religion. Its a faith based belief that there is no higher power of any kind out there adn that you live and you die and that is it. That is a belief that cannot be proven. Ever. As such, the Supreme Court ruled Atheism as a religious sect.

I dont mind if people want to believe and put blind faith in the nothingness of creation. I dont mind it because even the most stalwart scientists put faith into that which they cannot prove, test, see or register through any other sense. Scientists who fly, put faith that the plane that was built is going to stay together, that all the nuts and bolts were put on properly by humans. Their faith is unprovable at any given time as perfectly normal planes have crashed for unknown reasons. Reasons their science cant give them. Probably a scientific explanation for it, but the point is, they have faith.

Having faith in that is no different than having faith in some highe rpower, whatever it may be to that person. Its just a belief.

Let and let live, except atheists who with their hate filled attitudes call all suck my big 15inch AIDS infest cock.

Garcia Bronco
01-26-2009, 07:16 PM
You don't have to believe in a God to be religious or spiritual. And any christan that tells you that you are damned isn't a christian at all. Everyone has religion, which is a system of beliefs. Get over it and enjoy your life, because you'll be gone one day and this is true:

"It's a long, long time to be gone and a short time to be there."

-Hunter

Rock Chalk
01-26-2009, 07:19 PM
Atheism posits none of that, it is simply a lack of belief in religion.

Also, you are an incredible ass.

See, this atheist proves my point.

The Christian poster similar to the Atheism one didnt bother me one bit. I thought it was rather funny.

Poor atheists cant stand it when someone doesnt like their simple belief.

Garcia Bronco
01-26-2009, 07:26 PM
Yeah Alec. I explain to some of the board's "atheists" that "Atheism" is a religion and few went nuts. They did'nt even understand that they have a system of beliefs which makes atheism a religion. It was amusing.

Killericon
01-26-2009, 07:27 PM
Atheism requires faith.

Garcia Bronco
01-26-2009, 07:28 PM
Atheism posits none of that, it is simply a lack of belief in religion.

Also, you are an incredible ass.

So you don't believe yourself?

It's a lack of beliefs in a god. Atheism itself is a religion. Get it right.

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 07:34 PM
Your semantics are wrong. A "lack of a belief" is exactly what agnosticism is. It is neutrality ... no belief one way or the other.

"Atheism" however, is an affirmative belief no God exists.



Here's where your semantics fail: You cannot change what words mean by creating a false dichotomy between positions of knowledge vs. belief.

Now, you say atheism is "a position of belief." But through simple semantics we all know that you cannot have a "belief" that you're not sure whether to belive somethiong. That is a NON-position, neither one nor the other. And it's called agnosticism.

When you say atheism is "a position of belief," you lose the argument ;D

You are the one who is changing the meanings of words
It is very simply
Just break the words down.
the prefix "a" means not or without
Theism is the belief in a god or gods.
gnostic comes from the word gnosis, which means "knowledge"

Atheism is a lack of a belief, it is nontheism
It is a position of a belief, it doesnt adhere to the belief.
Your definition is wrong. I am sorry but people who claim atheism is the belief that there are no gods are creating definitions.

Wtf do you get "claims there is no god" from the prefix "a" and the root word "theism"
It literally means "without a belief in a deity".

The word shouldnt even exist, people are normally not defined by what they dont believe in
There is no name for someone who doesnt believe in goblins or fairies.

Again I broke the words down for you, they deal with different concepts.
Not only do you not seem to understand the difference between knowledge and belief, you dont understand what the prefix "a" means

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 07:36 PM
Yeah Alec. I explain to some of the board's "atheists" that "Atheism" is a religion and few went nuts. They did'nt even understand that they have a system of beliefs which makes atheism a religion. It was amusing.

Anyone who thinks this has no knowledge of basic anthropology.
News flash: wikipedia is a garbage source.

Any competent anthropologist would laugh at this "atheism is a religion" concept.

Spider
01-26-2009, 07:38 PM
See with Scientology we dont have this problem .........

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 07:43 PM
The big bang theory is the biggest magic trick there is. It breaks all the rules that science claims are true, like MATTER CAN NIETHER BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED. IT CAN ONLY BE TRANSFORMED FROM ONE FORM INTO ANOTHER.

Oh really (pic of that cookie owl here)?

Why dont you actually read what the big bang theory says
Or do you presume to know more about astronomy than those who study it for a living?

Your lack of understanding of science does not give any merit to religious beliefs.
It only reinforces the concept that they are built on ignorance.

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 07:47 PM
Ahh, atheists are far far worse at that tsiguy, just much less numerous than Christians.

Christians are like PC, get a bad rap because so many of them so they are attacked more frequently.

Atheists are like Mac, the reality is every bit as ****ty, but no one cares.

I have met bad Christians in my time, judgemental pricks who despise (oddly enough, a very un-Christianlike attitude) any and all who do not believe exactly as they do.

But I have NEVER met a Christian that HATED all other people of faith for no reason other than they believed something different. Thats how EVERY atheist I have ever met is. They HATE with a vitriolic passion those that believe in something because of the few a-holes of faith they have met that were in fact, just human a-holes.

Fact is, atheism as much as they want to deny it, is a religion. Its a faith based belief that there is no higher power of any kind out there adn that you live and you die and that is it. That is a belief that cannot be proven. Ever. As such, the Supreme Court ruled Atheism as a religious sect.

I dont mind if people want to believe and put blind faith in the nothingness of creation. I dont mind it because even the most stalwart scientists put faith into that which they cannot prove, test, see or register through any other sense. Scientists who fly, put faith that the plane that was built is going to stay together, that all the nuts and bolts were put on properly by humans. Their faith is unprovable at any given time as perfectly normal planes have crashed for unknown reasons. Reasons their science cant give them. Probably a scientific explanation for it, but the point is, they have faith.

Having faith in that is no different than having faith in some highe rpower, whatever it may be to that person. Its just a belief.

Let and let live, except atheists who with their hate filled attitudes call all suck my big 15inch AIDS infest cock.

Hmm so another person who thinks scientists presume the universe was made from "nothingness"
The science education in this country really is pathetic.

2KBack
01-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Ahh, atheists are far far worse at that tsiguy, just much less numerous than Christians.

Christians are like PC, get a bad rap because so many of them so they are attacked more frequently.

Atheists are like Mac, the reality is every bit as ****ty, but no one cares.

I have met bad Christians in my time, judgemental pricks who despise (oddly enough, a very un-Christianlike attitude) any and all who do not believe exactly as they do.

But I have NEVER met a Christian that HATED all other people of faith for no reason other than they believed something different. Thats how EVERY atheist I have ever met is. They HATE with a vitriolic passion those that believe in something because of the few a-holes of faith they have met that were in fact, just human a-holes.

Fact is, atheism as much as they want to deny it, is a religion. Its a faith based belief that there is no higher power of any kind out there adn that you live and you die and that is it. That is a belief that cannot be proven. Ever. As such, the Supreme Court ruled Atheism as a religious sect.

I dont mind if people want to believe and put blind faith in the nothingness of creation. I dont mind it because even the most stalwart scientists put faith into that which they cannot prove, test, see or register through any other sense. Scientists who fly, put faith that the plane that was built is going to stay together, that all the nuts and bolts were put on properly by humans. Their faith is unprovable at any given time as perfectly normal planes have crashed for unknown reasons. Reasons their science cant give them. Probably a scientific explanation for it, but the point is, they have faith.

Having faith in that is no different than having faith in some highe rpower, whatever it may be to that person. Its just a belief.

Let and let live, except atheists who with their hate filled attitudes call all suck my big 15inch AIDS infest cock.

It wasn't an atheist that started this thread to make fun of christians you know. Imagine if that was the case.

Garcia Bronco
01-26-2009, 07:53 PM
Hmm so another person who thinks scientists presume the universe was made from "nothingness"
The science education in this country really is pathetic.


There are only 4 sciences. Physics has no such conclusions.

Spider
01-26-2009, 07:54 PM
Bill Nye the Science guy will know

Spider
01-26-2009, 07:57 PM
http://www.ecb.org/guides/images/billnye2.jpg

TheDave
01-26-2009, 08:00 PM
See with Scientology we dont have this problem .........

and with Voodoo i'd simply put a hex on every one of you ****ers... ;D

TheDave
01-26-2009, 08:01 PM
Hmm so another person who thinks scientists presume the universe was made from "nothingness"
The science education in this country really is pathetic.

Tell me about it, I was a science teacher... it's like swimming upstream for a living.

Kid A
01-26-2009, 08:07 PM
Bokononism's where it's at.

I wanted all things
To seem to make some sense,
So we could all be happy, yes,
Instead of tense.
And I made up lies
So that they all fit nice,
And I made this sad world
A par-a-dise.


----------------------


A poem on pretending to understand:

Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?"

Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.

Spider
01-26-2009, 08:10 PM
and with Voodoo i'd simply put a hex on every one of you ****ers... ;D

yeah ..well my thetans can beat up your thetans ;D

Hotwheelz
01-26-2009, 08:10 PM
You are the one who is changing the meanings of words
It is very simply
Just break the words down.
the prefix "a" means not or without
Theism is the belief in a god or gods.
gnostic comes from the word gnosis, which means "knowledge"

Atheism is a lack of a belief, it is nontheism
It is a position of a belief, it doesnt adhere to the belief.
Your definition is wrong. I am sorry but people who claim atheism is the belief that there are no gods are creating definitions.

Wtf do you get "claims there is no god" from the prefix "a" and the root word "theism"
It literally means "without a belief in a deity".

The word shouldnt even exist, people are normally not defined by what they dont believe in
There is no name for someone who doesnt believe in goblins or fairies.

Again I broke the words down for you, they deal with different concepts.
Not only do you not seem to understand the difference between knowledge and belief, you dont understand what the prefix "a" means

You have way more patience than me.

Kid A
01-26-2009, 08:14 PM
Your semantics are wrong. A "lack of a belief" is exactly what agnosticism is. It is neutrality ... no belief one way or the other.

"Atheism" however, is an affirmative belief no God exists.



This is correct. Agnosticism, to me, is something of a default position until we are swayed one way or the other (though it rarely works this way, as we are born and raised into some kind of background).

There is also something called "weak" atheism vs. "strong" atheism. The difference is that weak atheists believe that there probably is no god, but it can't be proved absolutely. Strong atheists would argue that there is incontrovertible proof that god does not exist. Most atheists I've read tend to side with the "weak" position.

broncosteven
01-26-2009, 08:21 PM
...

There is also something called "weak" atheism vs. "strong" atheism. The difference is that weak atheists believe that there probably is no god, but it can't be proved absolutely. Strong atheists would argue that there is incontrovertible proof that god does not exist. Most atheists I've read tend to side with the "weak" position.

Is there an MIKE to go with your SAM and WILL backers?

This is a football board afterall.

Miss I.
01-26-2009, 08:21 PM
Let me shed some more BS on the discussion (and while I would not utilize wikpedia as a highly reputable source, some of it is pretty close to what I studied in my Religious Studies major in college:

Theism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
Religion defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
Secular Humanism defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
Humanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
Atheism defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

But how I would see this is that religion is an outlet for Theism. Atheism in its very nature is an anti position so it reject the idea of God, but it is a belief sytem of a sort, but not necessarily an ethic, but it is NOT a religion as religions in their very nature are not simply systems of belief but also encapsulate supernatural and ethical principals. Atheism is tied to things like secular humanism which is an ethical system of belief that often encapsulates atheism. Religious humanism is similar, but is theistic in nature unlike secular humanism.

Let me see if I can break this down:
Theism - Religion - Religious Humanism
Atheism - Humanism - Secular Humanism

Best I can do from the internet in a hotel room without my texts around me.

broncosteven
01-26-2009, 08:23 PM
Best I can do from the internet in a hotel room without my texts around me.

Will there be any expensing of porn or do you have to pay for that out of pocket?

Kid A
01-26-2009, 08:32 PM
Is there an MIKE to go with your SAM and WILL backers?

This is a football board afterall.

Atheism runs a 3-4.

Miss I.
01-26-2009, 08:43 PM
Will there be any expensing of porn or do you have to pay for that out of pocket?

Oh I just charge it to the OM credit card. that may be why they were having trouble with the site this week, really large charges for porn caused them to put a hold on the card.;)

Jesterhole
01-26-2009, 08:52 PM
Funny. However, the problem is the assumption that science points to there being nothing. In fact, science says all matter was condensed down into a point of singularity, which then expanded and exploded into the known universe.

Not that that is much easier to comprehend...

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 08:57 PM
I forgot one part of my explanation.
I misspoke earlier, I forgot about the "ism" meaning.

My earlier explanation to Broncobuff should still suffice, but in order to not leave any details out I need to add one quick thing.
The suffix "ism" refers to a doctrine.
Which is the same thing for dogma.

So the root word of "atheism" is actually "theos", which is "god" in Greek.
So again if we fully break the word down we get
"a" - not or without
"theos" is the root word(remember this is how it was in Greek) which means "god"
"ism" refers to a doctrine, or dogma.
So literally the word "atheism" means "without the doctrine of a god"

So again the "atheism is a claim that no gods exist" is a bogus definition that is fabricated.
This process applies for the word "agnosticism" as well.

Sorry for any inconvenience

slyinky
01-26-2009, 08:59 PM
So you don't believe yourself?

It's a lack of beliefs in a god. Atheism itself is a religion. Get it right.
Garcia Bronco is smart. Garcia Bronco is smart. Garcia Bronco is smart. Maybe if I say it enough times it will become true.ROFL!

Spider
01-26-2009, 09:34 PM
I forgot one part of my explanation.
I misspoke earlier, I forgot about the "ism" meaning.

My earlier explanation to Broncobuff should still suffice, but in order to not leave any details out I need to add one quick thing.
The suffix "ism" refers to a doctrine.
Which is the same thing for dogma.

So the root word of "atheism" is actually "theos", which is "god" in Greek.
So again if we fully break the word down we get
"a" - not or without
"theos" is the root word(remember this is how it was in Greek) which means "god"
"ism" refers to a doctrine, or dogma.
So literally the word "atheism" means "without the doctrine of a god"

So again the "atheism is a claim that no gods exist" is a bogus definition that is fabricated.
This process applies for the word "agnosticism" as well.

Sorry for any inconvenience

well sorry doesnt cut it mr , i was severely inconvenienced .....dont be shocked to hear from my lawyer tomorrow ......I got a good lawyer in Hotrod ...........

broncosteven
01-26-2009, 09:43 PM
well sorry doesnt cut it mr , i was severely inconvenienced .....dont be shocked to hear from my lawyer tomorrow ......I got a good lawyer in Hotrod ...........

Who's Hotrod?

Fedaykin
01-26-2009, 09:58 PM
See, this atheist proves my point.

The Christian poster similar to the Atheism one didnt bother me one bit. I thought it was rather funny.

Poor atheists cant stand it when someone doesnt like their simple belief.

You are not an ass because you disagree with me, you are an ass because you arrogantly mock things which you have clearly demonstrated that you don't understand. That you prop up that poster as an explanation for what atheism is shows that you clearly don't understand it, specifically because you confuse it with cosmology and evolution.

Further, you even demonstrate a laughable and completely wrong caricature of those two concepts as well.

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 09:59 PM
well sorry doesnt cut it mr , i was severely inconvenienced .....dont be shocked to hear from my lawyer tomorrow ......I got a good lawyer in Hotrod ...........

Why settle it in a court when we can go outside for a throat punch off?

lex
01-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Most of you guys should stick to talking about the Broncos and gum.

BroncoInferno
01-26-2009, 10:05 PM
Atheism per se is illogical.

Um, no. Atheism is the nonbeleif in a god or gods. If atheism is irrational, then so is a-unicornism, a-zeusism, and a-anything you can think of that has no proof for its existence. What a silly take.

BroncoInferno
01-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Is there really any proof either way? No, so its all "illogical!"

Is there any proof that unicorns don't exist. Is there any evidence that invisible monkeys aren't sprinting around Saturn's rings? Is the belief that there ARE unicorns or that there ARE invisible monkeys sprinting around Saturn's rings just as illogical as the position that there aren't?

Spider
01-26-2009, 10:48 PM
Why settle it in a court when we can go outside for a throat punch off?

you really want to go there ? If you cant take a joke , then we will do what ever you think needs to be done ...........Doesnt matter to me ...... and for the record dont think I wont show up , I have shocked a couple of people here ......

Br0nc0Buster
01-26-2009, 11:25 PM
you really want to go there ? If you cant take a joke , then we will do what ever you think needs to be done ...........Doesnt matter to me ...... and for the record dont think I wont show up , I have shocked a couple of people here ......

Ok but I will be wearing a neck brace.
I dont want to get a southpaw jab to the throat.

Spider
01-26-2009, 11:28 PM
Ok but I will be wearing a neck brace.
I dont want to get a southpaw jab to the throat.

Thats cheating ......

BroncoBuff
01-27-2009, 12:24 AM
You are the one who is changing the meanings of words
It is very simply
Just break the words down.
the prefix "a" means not or without
Theism is the belief in a god or gods.
gnostic comes from the word gnosis, which means "knowledge."

Again I broke the words down for you, they deal with different concepts.
Not only do you not seem to understand the difference between knowledge and belief, you dont understand what the prefix "a" means

Listen my fellow BB ... I'm not trying to embarass you or anything, but you're wrong. These definitions disagree with you 10 out of 10 times.

I think you're overrelying on strict etymological construction, the problem being that not every root word with an "a" prefix lends itself to that kind of strict construction. If you look at the part with the red and green stars ... "atheist" derives most recently from a 16th century French source.




http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/472/27765551ad8.jpg

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist

BroncoBuff
01-27-2009, 12:35 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but the belief system itself, "atheism" - ouside the pronoun has the same definition:



http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8366/98530279jn2.jpg


I dunno why you're working so hard for this, but very often I find people twist the definition exactly this way because they like the sting of the word "atheist" to use against fundamentalist Christians. I know I schooled OrangeAtheist in the WARP Room on this same topic, and it was pretty obvious he was clinging to the weapon-effect of the word ATHEIST when in reality he was just a mere agnostic ...

For whatever its worth, I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. ;D

BroncoBuff
01-27-2009, 12:49 AM
Um, no. Atheism is the nonbeleif in a god or gods. If atheism is irrational, then so is a-unicornism, a-zeusism, and a-anything you can think of that has no proof for its existence. What a silly take.
First, your definition of atheist is wrong (see previous two posts, above).

But beyond that, let me explain what I meant: I say atheism is "illogical" for the following: We have learned so much about quantum physics in the micro-world, and cosmology in the macro-world, that the only thing we can be sure of is that we know almost NOTHING about the universe. For example, did you know that the average atom consists of about 96% empty space ... even atoms that make up cast-iron are 96% space? And on the other end, that the Sun is just one of about 180 billion stars in our galaxy, which is just one of about 130-200 Billion galaxies in the known universe alone? Or that string theory and parallel universes have become the consensus belief of physicists?

Anybody who knows these things, but who can then decide to affirmatively belive there is no god, is simply "illogical." The only logical answer is ...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2903/50572527am5.jpg

"Insufficient data, Captain."




I read a really GREAT book on this topic, and just wrote an amazon.com review of that book, chiding the author a bit for this same haughty denial of a higher power: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A11SWG9T60IQH8/ref=cm_pdp_rev_title_1?ie=UTF8&sort%5Fby=MostRecentReview#R2N8H1OMTOQ6GA (the review is mine, the account is my gf).

It's a GREAT book, though, you should read it :thumbs:

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 12:54 AM
First, your definition of atheist is wrong (see previous two posts, above).

But beyond that, let me explain what I meant: I say atheism is "illogical" for the following: We have learned so much about quantum physics in the micro-world, and cosmology in the macro-world, that the only thing we can be sure of is that we know almost NOTHING about the universe. For example, did you know that the average atom consists of about 96% empty space ... even atoms that make up cast-iron are 96% space? And on the other end, that the Sun is just one of about 180 billion stars in our galaxy, which is just one of about 130-200 Billion galaxies in the known universe alone? Or that string theory and parallel universes have become the consensus belief of physicists?

Anybody who knows these things, but who can then decide to affirmatively belive there is no god, is simply "illogical." The only logical answer is ...

http://www.heroestheseries.com/stills/zachary-quinto-spock-2.jpg
"Insufficient data, Captain."




I read a really GREAT book on this topic, and just wrote an amazon.com review of that book, chiding the author a bit for this same haughty denial of a higher power: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A11SWG9T60IQH8/ref=cm_pdp_rev_title_1?ie=UTF8&sort%5Fby=MostRecentReview#R2N8H1OMTOQ6GA (the review is mine, the account is my gf).

It's a GREAT book, though, you should read it :thumbs:
How does believing in in those things but not believing in god "illogical"? Those things u mention actually have scientific evidence to back them up.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 12:57 AM
Funny. However, the problem is the assumption that science points to there being nothing. In fact, science says all matter was condensed down into a point of singularity, which then expanded and exploded into the known universe.

Not that that is much easier to comprehend...

There are actually multiple theorys on the subject including the one that you mentioned, but I think a more prominent one is that that the big bang was the beginning of time. Therefore when people say that nothing exploded,they are technically wrong because that would be assuming that there was a time before the big bang which consisted of nothing.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 01:02 AM
Most atheists don't believe in god because they believe in rational thought and critical thinking instead of just believing what they were taught by their parents. The scientific method by definition basically is guaranteed to either fall towards a correct answer.

I just explained that the whole "universe coming from nothing" thing isnt even what science says but even if it was, it is a whole lot easier to believe that then believeing that a god came from nowhere and then created the universe.

Once you guys understand why you dont believe in every other religion in the world you will understand why us athiests dont believe in yours.

watermock
01-27-2009, 01:03 AM
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2903/50572527am5.jpg

Just another Klingon sold out to the Federation.

BroncoBuff
01-27-2009, 01:05 AM
There are actually multiple theorys on the subject including the one that you mentioned, but I think a more prominent one is that that the big bang was the beginning of time. Therefore when people say that nothing exploded,they are technically wrong because that would be assuming that there was a time before the big bang which consisted of nothing.

Correct ... and actually, all the laws of science, all four known forces in the universe, break down to nothing at the singularity of the Big Bang. Science cannot comprehend it.

Curiously enough, cosmological models of the Big Bang can be accurately stated backto 10 to the -32 power seconds after the big bang. That tiny fraction of a second - before which we know nothing - is called "Planck's Wall," after Max Planck.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 01:08 AM
So you don't believe yourself?

It's a lack of beliefs in a god. Atheism itself is a religion. Get it right.
Atheism is a religion as much as being bald is a hair color.

BroncoBuff
01-27-2009, 01:09 AM
Actually it's called the "Planck's Epoch," and it's 10 to the -43rd power seconds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_epoch


Atheism is a religion as much as being bald is a hair color.

It's not religion, but it is an affirmatiove belief, as I showed above.

watermock
01-27-2009, 01:09 AM
just explained that the whole "universe coming from nothing" thing isnt even what science says but even if it was, it is a whole lot easier to believe that then believeing that a god came from nowhere and then created the universe.



No use to explain the siguarity theory.

It doesn't really matter if God existed before the bang.

The fact is there is an incredible balance, and conciousness.

Blart
01-27-2009, 01:12 AM
I believe that there is much mystery to the world and science is able to peer through much of it, but some things we may never know. What we can know, however, is that infedels who dare draw Allah's face must be beheaded.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 01:13 AM
No use to explain the siguarity theory.

It doesn't really matter if God existed before the bang.

The fact is there is an incredible balance, and conciousness.
You mean like equilibrium? that think that everything trys to spontaneously reach? hmmmm.

watermock
01-27-2009, 01:14 AM
[/QUOnce you guys understand why you dont believe in every other religion in the world you will understand why us athiests dont believe in yours.


WTF?

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 01:15 AM
WTF?

which part confused you?

Blart
01-27-2009, 01:20 AM
which part confused you?

This part:

[/QUOnce

watermock
01-27-2009, 01:27 AM
You mean like equilibrium? that think that everything trys to spontaneously reach? hmmmm.

No, the fact that both the universe is expanding, bent,and contracting all at once, while essentially STATIC. Time is static for all intents.

I was brain dead for 3 weeks. i'm not sure how to explain time, other than it's overated yet short as a bloom.

Time is static, despite the blooms.



Then you add the Creator into the equation, or conciosness.

BABronco
01-27-2009, 01:30 AM
Can we move this where it belongs?

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 01:34 AM
No, the fact that both the universe is expanding, bent,and contracting all at once , while essentially STATIC.
excuse me? what makes you think this? Scientists believe that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, not contracting or static. And im not sure how a 3 dimensional object can be bent but okay.
Time is static for all intents.
do you know what static means?

I was brain dead for 3 weeks. i'm not sure how to explain time, other than it's overated yet short as a bloom.

Time is static, despite the blooms.

Alright Im just assuming that you are trying to sound really deep, but if you do so at least try to make sense because you are making none.

watermock
01-27-2009, 01:40 AM
I know what static means more than you ever will...it's called eternity.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 01:47 AM
jesus christ.

watermock
01-27-2009, 01:48 AM
excuse me? what makes you think this? Scientists believe that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, not contracting or static. And im not sure how a 3 dimensional object can be bent but okay.


Gravity bends both light and space. Space can be bent. By balance, I mean the black holes holing galaxies together and the expanding universe in balance.

I believe there is an intellectual coallition emerging..

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 01:53 AM
Gravity bends both light and space. Space can be bent. By balance, I mean the black holes holing galaxies together and the expanding universe in balance.

I believe there is an intellectual coallition emerging..

nice you are actually making sense in this post and all of which you state is in fact true. Now going back, what exactly is the point that you are trying to make?

chickennob2
01-27-2009, 03:44 AM
Have you ever gone walking very early in the morning? I just got back from a walk. Even in a big city like Boston, the streets were empty. I was the only soul for as far as I could see. As I walked, trying not to freeze, and pondering the issues discussed here, namely the origins of the universe and how we came to be, I encountered my first fellow pedestrian. Accross the street was a man in his mid 50's, heavily bundled, walking with a cane scanning the ground in front of him. So here I am, alone in the world, pondering creation, when I come across a blind man wandering indefinitely towards some unknown goal.

That's really the trick, isn't it.


(agnosticism rules)

Dedhed
01-27-2009, 04:33 AM
no its not.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.
It is not the denial of a god.
It is not a position of knowledge, it is a position of belief.
Agnosticism is a stance on knowledge, thus is in an incomplete stance in regards to a person's belief.

Agnosticism is a stance of accepting that one does not know instead of pretending to know something that can't be known (aka belief), and creating reasons why one is right and the others are wrong. It is no more incomplete than fabricating knowledge for the sake of fulfillment.

watermock
01-27-2009, 04:58 AM
Your saying knowledge is a fabrication for self fulfillment?

For the ignorant perhaps.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-27-2009, 05:29 AM
I looked it up a long time ago, and as I understood it, atheism is just what you would think, breaking it down.... a-theism, i.e. does not believe in a theistic god.

That's what the word "atheism" means to me (although I realize it means different things to different people.)

I consider myself an atheist, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in some sort of God or Higher Power - it just means I don't embrace a theistic concept of God or a HP.

Most Westerners don't realize that there are alternatives to theism.

My worldview could probably be characterized as "atheism in the name of God."

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-27-2009, 05:33 AM
As I walked, trying not to freeze, and pondering the issues discussed here, namely the origins of the universe and how we came to be....

Does it have to have an origin, i.e., a beginning at some point in linear time?

Could it be that it has always been and always will be?

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 06:12 AM
Agnosticism is a stance of accepting that one does not know instead of pretending to know something that can't be known (aka belief), and creating reasons why one is right and the others are wrong. It is no more incomplete than fabricating knowledge for the sake of fulfillment.

um no one knows if there is a god, it is based on belief.
which is what theism deals with.

You can still believe in a god and not *know*
Or not believe in a god and also not *know*
I dont think Thor exists, but it is possible.

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 06:27 AM
Listen my fellow BB ... I'm not trying to embarass you or anything, but you're wrong. These definitions disagree with you 10 out of 10 times.

I think you're overrelying on strict etymological construction, the problem being that not every root word with an "a" prefix lends itself to that kind of strict construction. If you look at the part with the red and green stars ... "atheist" derives most recently from a 16th century French source.




http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/472/27765551ad8.jpg

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist



Online definitions can be wrong.
I can also though post just as many definitions as that that say "it is the lack of a belief in a god"
It originated from "atheos", which is "godless"
I know people have defined it differently, but just because they used it a certain way in the 16th century does not mean that was its intended use.
The word "race" for example is commonly misused today.
Does that mean that there actually are different "races" among the human species just because it is used that way?
No, it means technically that is incorrect usage.

Edit: also half of your definitions contain "or disbelief" in them...

BroncoInferno
01-27-2009, 06:44 AM
First, your definition of atheist is wrong (see previous two posts, above).

It is? I said an atheist is the nonbelief in the existence of a god or gods. The very definition you posted states, "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings." What did I get wrong? Sounds nearly the same to me.

But beyond that, let me explain what I meant: I say atheism is "illogical" for the following: We have learned so much about quantum physics in the micro-world, and cosmology in the macro-world, that the only thing we can be sure of is that we know almost NOTHING about the universe. For example, did you know that the average atom consists of about 96% empty space ... even atoms that make up cast-iron are 96% space? And on the other end, that the Sun is just one of about 180 billion stars in our galaxy, which is just one of about 130-200 Billion galaxies in the known universe alone? Or that string theory and parallel universes have become the consensus belief of physicists?

And what does this have to do with the god concept? Of course, there are countless things about the universe we don't know, and never will know. Does that mean we ought to give credence to every inane idea that comes down the pike? Each of the examples you listed above has at least some evidence suggesting or proving said examples. There is not a shred of evidence in favor of the god theory.

Anybody who knows these things, but who can then decide to affirmatively belive there is no god, is simply "illogical." The only logical answer is ...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2903/50572527am5.jpg

"Insufficient data, Captain."


The agnostic default position is NOT "I don't know" as you seem to suggest. Since you are fond of posting definitions:

ag·nos·tic (āg-nŏs'tĭk) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

In other words, the agnostic does not merely say "I don't know," but he says "I don't know, and it's impossible to ever know." I do not see how that is a logical stance to take on a claim that is very much a natural claim, regardless of the "god exists outside of nature" nonsense theists try to hand you. Everything that exists is part of nature. To exist is to be part of the natural order. And anything that exists is within the realm of scientific discovery. Until the theist can come up with some evidence supporting their claim, I will continue to quite sensible disbelieve them.

I read a really GREAT book on this topic, and just wrote an amazon.com review of that book, chiding the author a bit for this same haughty denial of a higher power: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A11SWG9T60IQH8/ref=cm_pdp_rev_title_1?ie=UTF8&sort%5Fby=MostRecentReview#R2N8H1OMTOQ6GA (the review is mine, the account is my gf).

It's a GREAT book, though, you should read it :thumbs:

I will look into it, if you give The God Delusion a try ;D

521 1N5
01-27-2009, 06:55 AM
your dictionary sucks

douche bag: feminine hygene product.


lol

dbfan21
01-27-2009, 07:01 AM
Man, I always get in on the good threads late! This is my first post and have scanned through many of the posts here. I will be right upfront and tell you I am a committed Christian. I will also tell you that there is much that I do not have figured out. But this is what I can tell you...

Many Christians have ruined things for us. I think it was Rock Chalk who said in an earlier post that there are bad Christians out there. I agree. There are Christians who take it upon themselves to stand on a street corner with a bullhorn and condemn non-believers to hell and there are Christians who pass out tracks at rock concerts warning people of the mistakes they are making in their lives. The "turn or burn" mentality is what has turned people off to Jesus Christ. There are also Christians who act like they are better than everyone else. They don't associate with people "beneath" them. They act as if they are not flawed at all. This drives me nuts!

The odd thing is that Jesus never had that attitude. In fact, if you read the Bible, you find that Jesus surrounded himslef with the lepers, the prostitutes, the homeless, and the sinners. Through His unconditional love for people, He healed those who were hurting, who were lost. This is what I want Christians to do....To authenticly love others the way Jesus loved people when He was alive. I feel that through builing relationships with those around you, you are better equipped to meet their needs, open their hearts and demonstrate what it truly means to be a Christ-follower.

For the athiests, agnostics and all other "non-Christians" out there, I am sorry for the poor treatment by Christians you have encountered in your life. If I had someone shoving something in my face, I'd probably run the other direction with a negative perception as well. I would love for you to find God and claim the name Christian at some point in your life. But I will not hate you for not doing so. It's my prayer that you experience some sort of event that will open your mind to Jesus...and that doesn't mean I wish a bad circumstance on you in order to find God....it may be a situation where you see God's hand in the good works of another person and you feel compelled to know more.

As far as the argument of atheism and those who believe there is no God, this is how I personally feel: It takes greater faith to believe that there is no God, then it does to believe that God created the universe and everything in it. And if you want proof, all you need to do is slow down and look around you. Did you know that a catepillar has 228 separate and distinct muscles in his head? Pretty impressive for a bug. God didn't have to put over 3,000 different species of trees in one square mile of the Amazon jungle, but he did. Coral plants are so sensitive, that they will die if the water temperature varies by one or two degrees. When you get goosebumps, did you know that your hair follicles help you stay warmer by trapping body heat? Or what about the simple fact that plants take in Carbon Dioxide, which is harmful to us and produce oxygen which we need to survive? I am sure you did, but have you ever marveled at it? And these same poison-swallowing, life-giving plants, came from seeds that were placed in the dirt, which poked through the soil and were fed by the sunlight.

I know my examples are excessive, but I think you know what I am getting at. How can you look at just these few examples and say God doesn't exist? Again, it takes greater faith to say he doesn't.

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 07:26 AM
As far as the argument of atheism and those who believe there is no God, this is how I personally feel: It takes greater faith to believe that there is no God, then it does to believe that God created the universe and everything in it. And if you want proof, all you need to do is slow down and look around you. Did you know that a catepillar has 228 separate and distinct muscles in his head? Pretty impressive for a bug. God didn't have to put over 3,000 different species of trees in one square mile of the Amazon jungle, but he did. Coral plants are so sensitive, that they will die if the water temperature varies by one or two degrees. When you get goosebumps, did you know that your hair follicles help you stay warmer by trapping body heat? Or what about the simple fact that plants take in Carbon Dioxide, which is harmful to us and produce oxygen which we need to survive? I am sure you did, but have you ever marveled at it? And these same poison-swallowing, life-giving plants, came from seeds that were placed in the dirt, which poked through the soil and were fed by the sunlight.

I know my examples are excessive, but I think you know what I am getting at. How can you look at just these few examples and say God doesn't exist? Again, it takes greater faith to say he doesn't.

That is a completely subjective argument.
Evolution and natural selection can explain all of life on this planet.
What looks complex is so because of hundreds of millions of years of evolution.
Besides why is it you marvel at only certain things
Do you also marvel at AIDS?
or cancer?
Do earthquakes and hurricanes impress you?
How bout the way great white sharks consume each other while still in the mother's womb?
It is impressive, but it is all explained with natural means and supporting evidence, tons of it

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 08:10 AM
Let me shed some more BS on the discussion (and while I would not utilize wikpedia as a highly reputable source, some of it is pretty close to what I studied in my Religious Studies major in college:

Theism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
Religion defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
Secular Humanism defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
Humanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
Atheism defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

But how I would see this is that religion is an outlet for Theism. Atheism in its very nature is an anti position so it reject the idea of God, but it is a belief sytem of a sort, but not necessarily an ethic, but it is NOT a religion as religions in their very nature are not simply systems of belief but also encapsulate supernatural and ethical principals. Atheism is tied to things like secular humanism which is an ethical system of belief that often encapsulates atheism. Religious humanism is similar, but is theistic in nature unlike secular humanism.

Let me see if I can break this down:
Theism - Religion - Religious Humanism
Atheism - Humanism - Secular Humanism

Best I can do from the internet in a hotel room without my texts around me.

Religion does not require belief in the super natural.

dbfan21
01-27-2009, 08:14 AM
That is a completely subjective argument.
Evolution and natural selection can explain all of life on this planet.
What looks complex is so because of hundreds of millions of years of evolution.
Besides why is it you marvel at only certain things
Do you also marvel at AIDS?
or cancer?
Do earthquakes and hurricanes impress you?
How bout the way great white sharks consume each other while still in the mother's womb?
It is impressive, but it is all explained with natural means and supporting evidence, tons of it

I don't marvel at certain things, I was just giving you a small example. People on the Mane don't want me to sit here and recite everything I marvel at. And I don't marvel at any deadly diseases or natural disasters, but I respect the dangers they present and the lives they take. It's very sad that people die.

Everyone has lost someone in their life to a disease or disaster. But everyone has also experienced God's love for them through the gift of life. I think "natural means and the supporting evidence" that you refer to falls under "God's creation". Maybe the reason why sharks consume each other in the womb is to sustain a certain few. You may argue that this is natural selection. I maintain that this is because God made them this way. The seas might be overrun with great whites if it was any other way.

Again, as I said in my original post, I don't have the answers to EVERYTHING.
A Christian author by the name of Don Miller summed up beautifully how I feel about this topic. He said, "When we worship God, we worship a being our life experience does not give us the tools to understand. If we could understand him, God would not inspire awe. We as Christians believe things we cannot explain. You cannot be a Christian without being a mystic".

And that's why it's called My Faith.

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 08:27 AM
Once you guys understand why you dont believe in every other religion in the world you will understand why us athiests dont believe in yours.

Personally, I would greatly appreciate it if you didn't rip off quotes and incorrectly pass them off as your own to sound intelligent.

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts

fontaine
01-27-2009, 08:27 AM
I don't marvel at certain things, I was just giving you a small example. People on the Mane don't want me to sit here and recite everything I marvel at. And I don't marvel at any deadly diseases or natural disasters, but I respect the dangers they present and the lives they take. It's very sad that people die.

Everyone has lost someone in their life to a disease or disaster. But everyone has also experienced God's love for them through the gift of life. I think "natural means and the supporting evidence" that you refer to falls under "God's creation". Maybe the reason why sharks consume each other in the womb is to sustain a certain few. You may argue that this is natural selection. I maintain that this is because God made them this way. The seas might be overrun with great whites if it was any other way.

Again, as I said in my original post, I don't have the answers to EVERYTHING.
A Christian author by the name of Don Miller summed up beautifully how I feel about this topic. He said, "When we worship God, we worship a being our life experience does not give us the tools to understand. If we could understand him, God would not inspire awe. We as Christians believe things we cannot explain. You cannot be a Christian without being a mystic".

And that's why it's called My Faith.

I understand what you're saying and I would call myself a Christian as well. But there's a huge difference in saying "our life experience does not give us the tools to understand" and actually trying to understand with what tools our life experience HAS given us.

Yes, it's good to marvel at the things that God might have created like the way nature supports life but at the same time you have to ask questions when various denominations ask you to follow the Bible hook line and sinker, or word for word, or even worse their "interpretations."

fontaine
01-27-2009, 08:29 AM
Personally, I would greatly appreciate it if you didn't rip off quotes and incorrectly pass them off as your own to sound intelligent.

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts

:spit:

ROFL!

BroncoInferno
01-27-2009, 08:42 AM
I don't marvel at certain things, I was just giving you a small example. People on the Mane don't want me to sit here and recite everything I marvel at. And I don't marvel at any deadly diseases or natural disasters, but I respect the dangers they present and the lives they take. It's very sad that people die.

Everyone has lost someone in their life to a disease or disaster. But everyone has also experienced God's love for them through the gift of life. I think "natural means and the supporting evidence" that you refer to falls under "God's creation". Maybe the reason why sharks consume each other in the womb is to sustain a certain few. You may argue that this is natural selection. I maintain that this is because God made them this way. The seas might be overrun with great whites if it was any other way.

Again, as I said in my original post, I don't have the answers to EVERYTHING.
A Christian author by the name of Don Miller summed up beautifully how I feel about this topic. He said, "When we worship God, we worship a being our life experience does not give us the tools to understand. If we could understand him, God would not inspire awe. We as Christians believe things we cannot explain. You cannot be a Christian without being a mystic".

And that's why it's called My Faith.

I think his point was that it is easy to marvel at the beauty in nature and attribute it to god, but by logical extension god would also be responsible for the ugliness in nature. Why, for example, would a benevolent god create creatures that devour their young in the womb? Why would a benevolent god create black widow spiders that devour their mate after copulation? Why would a benevolent god create creatures with claws and stingers that serve no other purpose that to kill prey? In the case of humans, you could argue that violence is product of our choices, but sharks and the black widow spiders do not have the capacity to make "choices." They act only on instinct. What is the purpose of this? It ought to be a troubling question if you believe in a benevolent creator. However, evolution explains all of these things quite neatly, even if they may not offer solace.

Archer81
01-27-2009, 08:42 AM
Atheism...subsituting the individual for God. Its a religion like any other, where you become your own priest, apostle, acolyte and savior. Just my opinion, of course.


:Broncos:

Killericon
01-27-2009, 09:06 AM
Argh!

Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

Agnosticism is skepticism, a lack of certain faith.

Atheism isn't the opposite of theism, antitheism is. How can this debate still be going on?!?

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 09:10 AM
Atheism posits none of that, it is simply a lack of belief in religion.

Also, you are an incredible ass.

LOL you really have no idea

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Atheism...subsituting the individual for God. Its a religion like any other, where you become your own priest, apostle, acolyte and savior. Just my opinion, of course.


:Broncos:

In a way, they few themselves as God. Interesting.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 09:19 AM
Speaking of beliefs I believe my threads rock.

Killericon
01-27-2009, 09:20 AM
In a way, they few themselves as God. Interesting.

No, it's not! It's a load of crap! AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dbfan21
01-27-2009, 09:20 AM
I understand what you're saying and I would call myself a Christian as well. But there's a huge difference in saying "our life experience does not give us the tools to understand" and actually trying to understand with what tools our life experience HAS given us.

Yes, it's good to marvel at the things that God might have created like the way nature supports life but at the same time you have to ask questions when various denominations ask you to follow the Bible hook line and sinker, or word for word, or even worse their "interpretations."

Just because we do not have the tools to understand God's creations does mean I am saying we shouldn't even attempt to understand it. I was illustrating the point that it's imposible to fully understand what has happened and what will happen. I think it would be arrogant of someone to say I totally "get it".

In your second point, I agree that you shouldn't take what a denomination says "hook, line and sinker". I would encourage anyone to study the scripture in detail and give a great deal of thought to it's meaning. The Bible is a very complex book and is meant to be poured over with great contemplation and prayer.

Killericon
01-27-2009, 09:21 AM
Speaking of beliefs I believe my threads rock.

I hate you.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:23 AM
Court rules atheism a religion
Decides 1st Amendment protects prison inmate's right to start study group

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 20, 2005
1:00 am Eastern

© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com



A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate's rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.
"Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being," the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.


The court decided the inmate's First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.

Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, called the court's ruling "a sort of Alice in Wonderland jurisprudence."

"Up is down, and atheism, the antithesis of religion, is religion," said Fahling.

The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described "secular humanism" as a religion.

Fahling said today's ruling was "further evidence of the incoherence of Establishment Clause jurisprudence."

"It is difficult not to be somewhat jaundiced about our courts when they take clauses especially designed to protect religion from the state and turn them on their head by giving protective cover to a belief system, that, by every known definition other than the courts' is not a religion, while simultaneously declaring public expressions of true religious faith to be prohibited," Fahling said.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45874

dbfan21
01-27-2009, 09:25 AM
I think his point was that it is easy to marvel at the beauty in nature and attribute it to god, but by logical extension god would also be responsible for the ugliness in nature. Why, for example, would a benevolent god create creatures that devour their young in the womb? Why would a benevolent god create black widow spiders that devour their mate after copulation? Why would a benevolent god create creatures with claws and stingers that serve no other purpose that to kill prey? In the case of humans, you could argue that violence is product of our choices, but sharks and the black widow spiders do not have the capacity to make "choices." They act only on instinct. What is the purpose of this? It ought to be a troubling question if you believe in a benevolent creator. However, evolution explains all of these things quite neatly, even if they may not offer solace.

Nothing about evolution can be explained neatly or else we wouldn't even be discussing this. The purpose of cannibal sharks and spiders is so some European scientist can make a TV show about it and air it on the National Geographic channel.

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 09:30 AM
this whole big bang thing just leaves alot to be desired. We know the universe is expanding, but expanding into what? What was there, before the big bang? Nothing? What is nothing?

So, a particle, a minute particle, full of energy and mass, explodes into a vacuum where there is nothing? So, where did this particle come from? Why did it exist and nothing else?

So many questions...

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 09:31 AM
I hate you.

take a number sir :)

Archer81
01-27-2009, 09:36 AM
No, it's not! It's a load of crap! AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wow. Simmer down Sybil. Its a conversation, its MY view that athiesm substitutes the belief in the divine for belief in man. You dont have to agree with me.


:Broncos:

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 09:39 AM
Nothing about evolution can be explained neatly or else we wouldn't even be discussing this. The purpose of cannibal sharks and spiders is so some European scientist can make a TV show about it and air it on the National Geographic channel.

Actually there is no discussion among scientists and other people educated in biology.
Evolution is an accepted scientific fact.
The people who doubt evolution cant even define it.

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 09:40 AM
This thread is retarded. Just because humans don't have a scientific explanation for cosmology DOES NOT mean such an explanation does not exist.

That said, atheism is a shallow philosophy, much like fundamentalism. To claim to know whether or not god exists is asinine.

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 09:43 AM
this whole big bang thing just leaves alot to be desired. We know the universe is expanding, but expanding into what? What was there, before the big bang? Nothing? What is nothing?

So, a particle, a minute particle, full of energy and mass, explodes into a vacuum where there is nothing? So, where did this particle come from? Why did it exist and nothing else?

So many questions...

Then talk to a scientist with knowledge in physics or astronomy.
Or read literature by published scientists on the matter.
Dont make assumptions just because this seems too complicated for you.

There is a lot I dont understand about quantum physics for example, but I am not about to run around saying "err this is wrong and science is stupid"

fontaine
01-27-2009, 09:43 AM
this whole big bang thing just leaves alot to be desired. We know the universe is expanding, but expanding into what? What was there, before the big bang? Nothing? What is nothing?

So, a particle, a minute particle, full of energy and mass, explodes into a vacuum where there is nothing? So, where did this particle come from? Why did it exist and nothing else?

So many questions...

I think part of the reason why there will always be so many questions is that science, by it's nature, can not describe what some one defines as God. It's like asking science that mainly deals with matter and energy to define a human being?

Sciences like Biology, physics, etc would be able to describe a system of electrical charges in neurons made up of carbon, oxygen, hydgrogen, zinc etc and how these organs interract around a skeletal structure but it would never be able to define, describe the human consciousness, or emotions, reasons behind decisions/thoughts etc.

Even if science found the causes and explanations behind the singularity of the big bang it would be related in numbers, infinite forces of energy and abstract concepts that might as well be describing God without a consciousness/mind or intentions without even realizing it. But damn you if you even think about calling it God!!!

We're supposed to believe that it was a singularity of infinite gravity and energy that threw out all energy and matter in the universe capable of creating billions upon billions of stars but no, of course it wasn't God!!

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:45 AM
Then talk to a scientist with knowledge in physics or astronomy.
Or read literature by published scientists on the matter.
Dont make assumptions just because this seems too complicated for you.

There is a lot I dont understand about quantum physics for example, but I am not about to run around saying "err this is wrong and science is stupid"

Astronomy isn't a science. There are only 4 sciences: Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Psychology.

dbfan21
01-27-2009, 09:46 AM
This thread is retarded. Just because humans don't have a scientific explanation for cosmology DOES NOT mean such an explanation does not exist.

That said, atheism is a shallow philosophy, much like fundamentalism. To claim to know whether or not god exists is asinine.

I agree...this thread is starting to deteriorate. I think I am going to shift to some football-related stuff, which is the only reason I come here anyways.

In the end, we will agree to disagree. There will be nothing I post here that is going to magically change your mind and vice versa. I will say that I enjoyed sharing my thoughts and beliefs with you. God Bless!

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 09:47 AM
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

good program, Brian Greene explains it all very well.

It's 3 hours long and I'd recommend just reading the book, but its a great place to start.

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 09:47 AM
Astronomy isn't a science. There are only 4 sciences: Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Psychology.

I said someone who is knowledgable in the area.
Astronomy is a branch of physics

fontaine
01-27-2009, 09:50 AM
Then talk to a scientist with knowledge in physics or astronomy.
Or read literature by published scientists on the matter.
Dont make assumptions just because this seems too complicated for you.

There is a lot I dont understand about quantum physics for example, but I am not about to run around saying "err this is wrong and science is stupid"

Calm down. He isn't saying it's wrong or that science is stupid.

But why talk just talk to a physicist or scientist about the creation of the universe? That's where I don't understand the point of taking a provincial outlook in only consulting a specific field of study. When trying to learn about the physical reproduction organs in humans did you go to your high school/college biologist or just go out on a date?

Ha!

2KBack
01-27-2009, 09:50 AM
this whole big bang thing just leaves alot to be desired. We know the universe is expanding, but expanding into what? What was there, before the big bang? Nothing? What is nothing?

So, a particle, a minute particle, full of energy and mass, explodes into a vacuum where there is nothing? So, where did this particle come from? Why did it exist and nothing else?

So many questions...

Lack of answers to questions is no proof or disproof of a creator or intelligent design. humanities greatest advantage and disadvanateg in the animal kingdom is its self-awareness and fear of its own mortality. This creates that human need to find reason and purpose in everything. Every religion in the world would agree that religions other than their own probably got it wrong. so the answers to these questions will be different everywhere you look, with one religion having no more proof than the other. It really is quite a confusing mess, and I find it fascinating when a person can cling so assuredly to one of the religions.

Personally I can't find any proof than God exists, neither can I prove that he doesn't. I do however think that it is very unlikely that humans are getting it right.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 09:50 AM
I said someone who is knowledgable in the area.
Astronomy is a branch of physics

No. It's not. You are thinking of Astrophysics, which is really just physics in space. Granted I am splitting hairs, but still.

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 09:56 AM
Calm down. He isn't saying it's wrong or that science is stupid.

But why talk just talk to a physicist or scientist about the creation of the universe? That's where I don't understand the point of taking a provincial outlook in only consulting a specific field of study. When trying to learn about the physical reproduction organs in humans did you go to your high school/college biologist or just go out on a date?

Ha!

He did say it was wrong, it said something like it was "magic"
And if you want to learn about the world and universe we live in, then no one is more knowledgable than a scientist.
They study it for a living.
That is why if you have questions regarding characteristics of the universe or world, you should consult a scientist.

If I actually wanted to learn the reproductive organs I would be best suited to study it instead of going on a date.
I mean just because I can stick my penis in it doesnt mean I know what it is called.

Killericon
01-27-2009, 09:57 AM
Astronomy isn't a science. There are only 4 sciences: Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Psychology.

Well, I mean strictly speaking, you could boil all that down to Social Science and Natural Science, which would be just two.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 09:58 AM
Wow alot of heathens running amock around here.

IMHO Science is the work of the devil.

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 09:58 AM
Well, I mean strictly speaking, you could boil all that down to Social Science and Natural Science, which would be just two.

I'm pretty sure it all boils down to math.

Spider
01-27-2009, 09:59 AM
I got to say I was hoping to read some e=mc2 type of stuff here , Star trek sci fi guys all up in here ............
but i will add this .. if there is a God ........I am pretty sure it is me ...........

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 09:59 AM
Astronomy isn't a science. There are only 4 sciences: Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Psychology.If we're de-legitimizing a science, Psychology should be the first to go.

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 10:00 AM
I got to say I was hoping to read some e=mc2 type of stuff here , Star trek sci fi guys all up in here ............
but i will add this .. if there is a God ........I am pretty sure it is me ...........

Strange. I'm entirely certain that if there is a God, it's not you.

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 10:01 AM
Biology is chemistry. Chemistry is physics. Physics is math.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:02 AM
Biology is chemistry. Chemistry is physics. Physics is math.

Each build on each other. You can't have the study of Chemistry for example without physics.

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 10:02 AM
I got to say I was hoping to read some e=mc2 type of stuff here , Star trek sci fi guys all up in here ............
but i will add this .. if there is a God ........I am pretty sure it is me ...........

http://crackle.com/c/Screenbites/Groundhog_Day_I_m_A_God/1619201

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:03 AM
If we're de-legitimizing a science, Psychology should be the first to go.

Psychology is a science, but not like the others and is in many ways much more complex. We're talking human behavior here.

fontaine
01-27-2009, 10:03 AM
He did say it was wrong, it said something like it was "magic"
And if you want to learn about the world and universe we live in, then no one is more knowledgable than a scientist.
They study it for a living.
That is why if you have questions regarding characteristics of the universe or world, you should consult a scientist.


Knowledgeable does not equal truth or even the best explanation. If a child wanted to know where she/he came from then you wouldn't just say "go talk to a scientist." I know it's over simplifying things but so far there is a lot more theory behind the creation of the universe than known fact and laws. And some of these theories are created purely to support other theories. There's no denying that a huge part of the study of the creation of the universe is theoretical rather than known fact. There's a huge difference. Even minute details that are incorrect can have huge and significant repercussions. But you get my point. It's an answer, not THE answer. Hell it's not even a complete answer.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:06 AM
Well, I mean strictly speaking, you could boil all that down to Social Science and Natural Science, which would be just two.

You could and people do, but those aren't actual disciplines. There are only 4. Everything else is a combination of the four. Like climateology. It's not a science, but it is physics and chemistry.

Killericon
01-27-2009, 10:08 AM
Biology is chemistry. Chemistry is physics. Physics is math.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png

Spider
01-27-2009, 10:08 AM
Strange. I'm entirely certain that if there is a God, it's not you.

Thats no way to talk to a god ........

Inkana7
01-27-2009, 10:09 AM
Atheism per se is illogical.

Agnosticism on the other hand is pretty sensible. But beware the agnostic who shouts "I AM AN ATHEIST" from the rooftops. Nine times out of ten, he's just trying to p*** off persons of faith.

Can you blame them? It's great fun.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 10:09 AM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/purity.png

LOL

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 10:11 AM
Psychology is a science, but not like the others and is in many ways much more complex. We're talking human behavior here.There are aspects of psychology that resemble science (how they try and collect data) but it's hardly science like that of Chemistry/Physics/Biology. The human mind and human behavior simply have too many unknown variables to be codified by science.

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 10:11 AM
Wow alot of heathens running amock around here.

IMHO Science is the work of the devil.

True.

Jesus didn't love the dinosaurs.

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 10:15 AM
True.

Jesus didn't love the dinosaurs.

Apparently you didn't color as a child.

http://i27.tinypic.com/2h6yet5.jpg

TheReverend
01-27-2009, 10:20 AM
Apparently you didn't color as a child.

http://i27.tinypic.com/2h6yet5.jpg

That's obviously not in Eden.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 10:23 AM
Apparently you didn't color as a child.

http://i27.tinypic.com/2h6yet5.jpg

Wonder how PETA feels about Jesus now???

2KBack
01-27-2009, 10:25 AM
Apparently you didn't color as a child.

http://i27.tinypic.com/2h6yet5.jpg

One of the funniest things I've ever seen

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 10:25 AM
Ok, I get "Rapturous Red" for a coloring hint, but "Omnipotent Yellow" and "Flesh of Christ"? Though that'd be a pretty rad crayon to find in the old crayola box.

GoHAM
01-27-2009, 10:26 AM
There are aspects of psychology that resemble science (how they try and collect data) but it's hardly science like that of Chemistry/Physics/Biology. The human mind and human behavior simply have too many unknown variables to be codified by science.

And that is why it is classified as an Art instead of a Science

When you graduate w/ a degree in Psychology you get a Bachelor of ARTS

When you graduate w/ a degree from a real "science" you get a Bachelor of SCIENCE

So claiming that Psychology is a more real science than some of the other true sciences is ridiculous.

Killericon
01-27-2009, 10:26 AM
LOL

The Alt-Text is "Of course, there are some who say that Physics is to Math what Sex is to Masturbation."

dbfan21
01-27-2009, 10:27 AM
He did say it was wrong, it said something like it was "magic"
And if you want to learn about the world and universe we live in, then no one is more knowledgable than a scientist.
They study it for a living.
That is why if you have questions regarding characteristics of the universe or world, you should consult a scientist.

If I actually wanted to learn the reproductive organs I would be best suited to study it instead of going on a date.
I mean just because I can stick my penis in it doesnt mean I know what it is called.

Okay, I came back and had to say one last thing:

I quoted an author who said you had to be a bit of a mystic to be a Christian due to the number of inexplicable things that God does. And to your thought about the scientist, I'd say that if you want to learn about the world and universe we live in, no one is more knowledgable than a theologian/pastor. They study it for a living. That is why if you have questions regarding characteristics of the universe or world, you should consult a pastor. :angel:

GoHAM
01-27-2009, 10:29 AM
Of course that's just the argument I would use w/ my wife who has a BA in Pshychology.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 10:29 AM
And that is why it is classified as an Art instead of a Science

When you graduate w/ a degree in Psychology you get a Bachelor of ARTS

When you graduate w/ a degree from a real "science" you get a Bachelor of SCIENCE

So claiming that Psychology is a more real science than some of the other true sciences is ridiculous.

Dude you can get a BA or BS in almost anything. It has nothing to do with what a discipline is classified.

you can get a BA in Chemistry or Biology as well as a BS in sociology or psychology or buisness

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 10:32 AM
Whether or not you get a BA or BS (though it largely depends on the university) has more to do with your electives than your major. Not all universities will offer say a BS in English or a BA in Chemistry, but I'm sure such programs exist somewhere.

Spider
01-27-2009, 10:37 AM
dont mean to brag but I got a c once in High school . pretty proud of that ......

alkemical
01-27-2009, 10:48 AM
Let me shed some more BS on the discussion (and while I would not utilize wikpedia as a highly reputable source, some of it is pretty close to what I studied in my Religious Studies major in college:

Theism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
Religion defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
Secular Humanism defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
Humanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
Atheism defined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

But how I would see this is that religion is an outlet for Theism. Atheism in its very nature is an anti position so it reject the idea of God, but it is a belief sytem of a sort, but not necessarily an ethic, but it is NOT a religion as religions in their very nature are not simply systems of belief but also encapsulate supernatural and ethical principals. Atheism is tied to things like secular humanism which is an ethical system of belief that often encapsulates atheism. Religious humanism is similar, but is theistic in nature unlike secular humanism.

Let me see if I can break this down:
Theism - Religion - Religious Humanism
Atheism - Humanism - Secular Humanism

Best I can do from the internet in a hotel room without my texts around me.

Belief Systems. It's all BS... ;)

nah, in the thank you obama thread in the WRP i went into how atheism is a belief system - and it can be as dogmatic as any other religion (the people to the idea).

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:18 AM
Argh!

Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

Agnosticism is skepticism, a lack of certain faith.

Atheism isn't the opposite of theism, antitheism is. How can this debate still be going on?!?

Because people have lots invested in their B.S. (Belief Structures).


*BS is ripped off from RAW - i just like it so much i use it. (I didn't want Rev up my ass)

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:19 AM
I think part of the reason why there will always be so many questions is that science, by it's nature, can not describe what some one defines as God. It's like asking science that mainly deals with matter and energy to define a human being?

Sciences like Biology, physics, etc would be able to describe a system of electrical charges in neurons made up of carbon, oxygen, hydgrogen, zinc etc and how these organs interract around a skeletal structure but it would never be able to define, describe the human consciousness, or emotions, reasons behind decisions/thoughts etc.

Even if science found the causes and explanations behind the singularity of the big bang it would be related in numbers, infinite forces of energy and abstract concepts that might as well be describing God without a consciousness/mind or intentions without even realizing it. But damn you if you even think about calling it God!!!

We're supposed to believe that it was a singularity of infinite gravity and energy that threw out all energy and matter in the universe capable of creating billions upon billions of stars but no, of course it wasn't God!!

you can only see as good as the tools you got.

bronco militia
01-27-2009, 11:19 AM
One of the funniest things I've ever seen

Ha!

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:22 AM
Psychology is a science, but not like the others and is in many ways much more complex. We're talking human behavior here.

Psychology is definitly the pot-luck. Chemistry, language, etc etc etc... Lots of cool **** IMO.

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 11:23 AM
There are so many gods out there, resistance is futile.

Just bow down to something already.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:25 AM
And that is why it is classified as an Art instead of a Science

When you graduate w/ a degree in Psychology you get a Bachelor of ARTS

When you graduate w/ a degree from a real "science" you get a Bachelor of SCIENCE

So claiming that Psychology is a more real science than some of the other true sciences is ridiculous.

Depends. It is an art, but there's lots of science that ties into it: neurology/chemistry/genetics/linguistics/etc/technology.

But, it needs all of these things to understand human "consciousness".

TheDave
01-27-2009, 11:26 AM
One of the funniest things I've ever seen

I also enjoy the one of Jesus comforting the baby T-Rex... :thumbs:

http://www.geekstir.com/img/jesusdinosaurepic.jpg

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 11:28 AM
I also enjoy the one of Jesus comforting the baby T-Rex... :thumbs:

http://www.geekstir.com/img/jesusdinosaurepic.jpg

Warning, blasphemous:

http://www.jakemalone.com/ymca_blasphemy.jpg

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:28 AM
As for atheists/theists/etc:

Each need the other to exist, because that's how they defined themselves in that game. Everybody decides which game they are going to play, and what they are going to see. It's amazing how much your brain fills in the gaps from what your 5 senses give you.

If you only see around 30% of the word, with your very own physical eyes, roughly what - 60-70% is then generated by your brain. If that alone doesn't impress upon you how your imagination fills in the gaps, in accordance with all the lenses you filter the world through... Then i don't know what to tell you, other than enjoy it and leave me play my game. ;)

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:29 AM
I also enjoy the one of Jesus comforting the baby T-Rex... :thumbs:

http://www.geekstir.com/img/jesusdinosaurepic.jpg

I love the pterodactyl by the volcano.

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 11:31 AM
There are aspects of psychology that resemble science (how they try and collect data) but it's hardly science like that of Chemistry/Physics/Biology. The human mind and human behavior simply have too many unknown variables to be codified by science.

It's very much in its infancy compared to the others.

broncocalijohn
01-27-2009, 11:32 AM
Atheism per se is illogical.

Agnosticism on the other hand is pretty sensible. But beware the agnostic who shouts "I AM AN ATHEIST" from the rooftops. Nine times out of ten, he's just trying to p*** off persons of faith.

is this a warning that gonzolays is back at the mane?

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 11:33 AM
The Alt-Text is "Of course, there are some who say that Physics is to Math what Sex is to Masturbation."

Well it might amuse you to know I have a minor in Math(one end of the spectrum), and a BS in Psyc. LOL

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 11:35 AM
Then talk to a scientist with knowledge in physics or astronomy.
Or read literature by published scientists on the matter.
Dont make assumptions just because this seems too complicated for you.

There is a lot I dont understand about quantum physics for example, but I am not about to run around saying "err this is wrong and science is stupid"

I'm not sayng that either. Fact is, for every question science answers, or thinks it answers, it creates yet more questions. Extreme science, for lack of a better name, is nothing more than philosophy, because nothing can be proven. Its all allot of conjecture and imagination.

broncocalijohn
01-27-2009, 11:36 AM
There are so many gods out there, resistance is futile.

Just bow down to something already.

Many do. His initials are J.C. Fans of JC call him Jay Cutler.

TheDave
01-27-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm not sayng that either. Fact is, for every question science answers, or thinks it answers, it creates yet more questions. Extreme science, for lack of a better name, is nothing more than philosophy, because nothing can be proven. Its all allot of conjecture and imagination.

Your high school science teachers need to be slapped...

alkemical
01-27-2009, 11:41 AM
Your high school science teachers need to be slapped...

you'd probably kill mine.

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 11:42 AM
I think part of the reason why there will always be so many questions is that science, by it's nature, can not describe what some one defines as God. It's like asking science that mainly deals with matter and energy to define a human being?

Sciences like Biology, physics, etc would be able to describe a system of electrical charges in neurons made up of carbon, oxygen, hydgrogen, zinc etc and how these organs interract around a skeletal structure but it would never be able to define, describe the human consciousness, or emotions, reasons behind decisions/thoughts etc.

Even if science found the causes and explanations behind the singularity of the big bang it would be related in numbers, infinite forces of energy and abstract concepts that might as well be describing God without a consciousness/mind or intentions without even realizing it. But damn you if you even think about calling it God!!!

We're supposed to believe that it was a singularity of infinite gravity and energy that threw out all energy and matter in the universe capable of creating billions upon billions of stars but no, of course it wasn't God!!

I don't begrudge scientists for trying. We have to try and answer these questions, its in our nature to explore and ask questions.

It's just that when many scientists don't know an answer like "what was around before the big bang?" they start BSing and guessing and making crappola up.

I'd have more respect for them if they just said "we don't know, but we are trying to find out."

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 11:43 AM
Your high school science teachers need to be slapped...

why?

TheDave
01-27-2009, 11:44 AM
why?

To make a statement like you did... they did an incredibly poor job of "teaching"

Pseudofool
01-27-2009, 11:45 AM
It's very much in its infancy compared to the others.It's not that, it's flawed in its premise.

Spider
01-27-2009, 11:45 AM
Your high school science teachers need to be slapped...

;D make a DVD .Angry Science teachers in love ........... Just have to figure out a way to get a pizza Delivery specialist involved ;D

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 11:46 AM
To make a statement like you did... they did an incredibly poor job of "teaching"

please clarify, teacher

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2009, 11:48 AM
My high school teachers were dopes. Especially the science ones. They couldn't find their ass with either hand.

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 11:55 AM
you can only see as good as the tools you got.

Ill agree with that.
Which is why I search with the people with the "sharpest tools"
These people who make claims about the universe without a basic understanding of the scientific method have some pretty dull tools.

They understand it the least, but feel their views have just as much merit as someone who has studied the subject their whole life

You can understand things so much better if you understand how the universe works

2KBack
01-27-2009, 11:59 AM
I don't begrudge scientists for trying. We have to try and answer these questions, its in our nature to explore and ask questions.

It's just that when many scientists don't know an answer like "what was around before the big bang?" they start BSing and guessing and making crappola up.

I'd have more respect for them if they just said "we don't know, but we are trying to find out."

I agree wholeheartedly. I wish more people were secure enough to make such a simply statement. how hard is it to say "We don't know, but we'll keep looking for answers."

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 12:00 PM
Your high school science teachers need to be slapped...

I remember being in kindergarten and asking my teacher why a fly didn't fall off the ceiling to the floor. I **** you not this was her response, "It's too small for gravity to affect." :spit:

TheDave
01-27-2009, 12:03 PM
please clarify, teacher

What i get from your post is essentially...

Science can't answer everything therefore anything it does answer is suspect.

The problem with a bunch of laypersons giving their opinion on the "Big Bang" theory is that they don't know enough to even begin commenting on it. In order to pretend one has a basic understanding of that level of astrophysics you need a gradschool level of competency in math, physics, astronomy, etc. Yet the majority of people who form opinions like these struggled with algebra II in highschool, cheated their way through physics 101 in college, and got their astronomy background by watching Apollo 13.

I get in the same pissing match with people regarding the theory of evolution. 9 out of 10 creationists have 0 background in anthropology or biology, yet because their sunday school teacher told them different they feel they have the right to scoff at people who have spent their entire life studying that particular subject.

Point is... none of us (myself included) know enough about astrophysics to have an opinion on it.

TheDave
01-27-2009, 12:04 PM
you'd probably kill mine.

Probably... which is part of the reason i have not gone back into it.

Spider
01-27-2009, 12:05 PM
Point is... none of us (myself included) know enough about astrophysics to have an opinion on it.

....... see along time ago in a Galaxy far far away ........ok I dont know **** about space

TheDave
01-27-2009, 12:08 PM
....... see along time ago in a Galaxy far far away ........ok I dont know **** about space

I've taken plenty of physics courses... Astrophysics was an ass kicker.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 12:08 PM
What i get from your post is essentially...

Science can't answer everything therefore anything it does answer is suspect.

The problem with a bunch of laypersons giving their opinion on the "Big Bang" theory is that they don't know enough to even begin commenting on it. In order to pretend one has a basic understanding of that level of astrophysics you need a gradschool level of competency in math, physics, astronomy, etc. Yet the majority of people who form opinions like these struggled with algebra II in highschool, cheated their way through physics 101 in college, and got their astronomy background by watching Apollo 13.
I get in the same pissing match with people regarding the theory of evolution. 9 out of 10 creationists have 0 background in anthropology or biology, yet because their sunday school teacher told them different they feel they have the right to scoff at people who have spent their entire life studying that particular subject.

Point is... none of us (myself included) know enough about astrophysics to have an opinion on it.

Did we go to college together???


Ha!

Spider
01-27-2009, 12:10 PM
I've taken plenty of physics courses... Astrophysics was an ass kicker.

I bet ...... I remember one time in school , they had us use telescopes , I realized Trucking was a reality for me when I couldnt find the freaking moon with that damn thing

alkemical
01-27-2009, 12:14 PM
Ill agree with that.
Which is why I search with the people with the "sharpest tools"
These people who make claims about the universe without a basic understanding of the scientific method have some pretty dull tools.

They understand it the least, but feel their views have just as much merit as someone who has studied the subject their whole life

You can understand things so much better if you understand how the universe works

That's what i've been telling you ;)

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 12:16 PM
I've taken plenty of physics courses... Astrophysics was an ass kicker.

You have an interest in string theory?

alkemical
01-27-2009, 12:16 PM
Probably... which is part of the reason i have not gone back into it.


Do you still think school should be mandatory? Or do you think some of these little ****ers just need to go right to work?

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 12:29 PM
What i get from your post is essentially...

Science can't answer everything therefore anything it does answer is suspect.

The problem with a bunch of laypersons giving their opinion on the "Big Bang" theory is that they don't know enough to even begin commenting on it. In order to pretend one has a basic understanding of that level of astrophysics you need a gradschool level of competency in math, physics, astronomy, etc. Yet the majority of people who form opinions like these struggled with algebra II in highschool, cheated their way through physics 101 in college, and got their astronomy background by watching Apollo 13.

I get in the same pissing match with people regarding the theory of evolution. 9 out of 10 creationists have 0 background in anthropology or biology, yet because their sunday school teacher told them different they feel they have the right to scoff at people who have spent their entire life studying that particular subject.

Point is... none of us (myself included) know enough about astrophysics to have an opinion on it.

Wow you are presumptious poster. Your point is this: Your not an expert, therefore, you aren't qualified to ask about, or doubt the answers you are given.

I do have a degree, and post-grad work in a couple of fields, and I did take astronomy in college. But don't let those facts get in your way, chief.

:peace:

TheDave
01-27-2009, 12:29 PM
You have an interest in string theory?

Thats a branch of physics i never paid much attention too... I have enough to keep me busy with a 3 dimentional universe. When people start talking about there being 11 dimensions my brain tends to melt.

TheDave
01-27-2009, 12:40 PM
Wow you are presumptious poster. Your point is this: Your not an expert, therefore, you aren't qualified to ask about, or doubt the answers you are given.

I do have a degree, and post-grad work in a couple of fields, and I did take astronomy in college. But don't let those facts get in your way, chief.

:peace:

WOW you took astronomy 101... my bad.

Oh waite, maybe thats why i said a "Graduate Level of understanding in math physics and astronomy"

Sorry boss, but the education needs to go beyond "I have a degree" before your doubts about Phd level astrophysics hold any merit.

NUB
01-27-2009, 12:40 PM
Wow you are presumptious poster. Your point is this: Your not an expert, therefore, you aren't qualified to ask about, or doubt the answers you are given.

I do have a degree, and post-grad work in a couple of fields, and I did take astronomy in college. But don't let those facts get in your way, chief.

:peace:

Astronomy? That's nice. Too bad a lot that the Big Bang entails quantum mechanics and things that make your brain explode.

The fact is, the Big Bang theory, which was, ironically, accepted by the religious originally, is supported by a great deal of evidence. It has also survived about a hundred years of rigorous testing, something most theories simply do not do in the modern era.

You can see that the Universe is expanding for yourself, btw. Peer into the sky and you can be looking millions if not billions of years into the past, all of it reeling back from one location.

It's very enthralling.

TheDave
01-27-2009, 12:41 PM
Do you still think school should be mandatory? Or do you think some of these little ****ers just need to go right to work?

Through 16 years old... yes.

After that they can jump into the work force with the rest of us.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 01:00 PM
Through 16 years old... yes.

After that they can jump into the work force with the rest of us.

Cattle prods?

alkemical
01-27-2009, 01:00 PM
Astronomy? That's nice. Too bad a lot that the Big Bang entails quantum mechanics and things that make your brain explode.

The fact is, the Big Bang theory, which was, ironically, accepted by the religious originally, is supported by a great deal of evidence. It has also survived about a hundred years of rigorous testing, something most theories simply do not do in the modern era.

You can see that the Universe is expanding for yourself, btw. Peer into the sky and you can be looking millions if not billions of years into the past, all of it reeling back from one location.

It's very enthralling.

IF, we even exist at all... ;)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 01:07 PM
WOW you took astronomy 101... my bad.

Oh waite, maybe thats why i said a "Graduate Level of understanding in math physics and astronomy"

Sorry boss, but the education needs to go beyond "I have a degree" before your doubts about Phd level astrophysics hold any merit.

Educational elitism at its finest.

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 01:09 PM
Astronomy? That's nice. Too bad a lot that the Big Bang entails quantum mechanics and things that make your brain explode.

The fact is, the Big Bang theory, which was, ironically, accepted by the religious originally, is supported by a great deal of evidence. It has also survived about a hundred years of rigorous testing, something most theories simply do not do in the modern era.

You can see that the Universe is expanding for yourself, btw. Peer into the sky and you can be looking millions if not billions of years into the past, all of it reeling back from one location.

It's very enthralling.

It still has major holes and is at best, a flawed THEORY.

Oh, and btw, the big bang theory has only been aroun for about 40 years or so.

Houshyamama
01-27-2009, 01:26 PM
Thats a branch of physics i never paid much attention too... I have enough to keep me busy with a 3 dimentional universe. When people start talking about there being 11 dimensions my brain tends to melt.

I HIGHLY recommend these two books:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elegant_Universe:_Superstrings,_Hidden_Dimensi ons,_and_the_Quest_for_the_Ultimate_Theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fabric_of_the_Cosmos:_Space,_Time,_and_the_Tex ture_of_Reality

TheDave
01-27-2009, 01:51 PM
Educational elitism at its finest.

You are absolutely right, when someone puts in enough work to attain a Phd in astrophysics they have every right to be considered "elite" in that field. It's also fair to expect your knowledge of the subject to be comparable before your criticisms of the subject are considered valid.

I've never understood why that is such a tough concept for some people.

Dedhed
01-27-2009, 03:47 PM
Your saying knowledge is a fabrication for self fulfillment?

For the ignorant perhaps.I'm saying religion is a fabrication for fulfillment.

Dedhed
01-27-2009, 04:00 PM
Your semantics are wrong. A "lack of a belief" is exactly what agnosticism is. It is neutrality ... no belief one way or the other.

"Atheism" however, is an affirmative belief no God exists.



Here's where your semantics fail: You cannot change what words mean by creating a false dichotomy between positions of knowledge vs. belief.

Now, you say atheism is "a position of belief." But through simple semantics we all know that you cannot have a "belief" that you're not sure whether to belive somethiong. That is a NON-position, neither one nor the other. And it's called agnosticism.

When you say atheism is "a position of belief," you lose the argument ;DYour take on agnostic is a bit off. Agnostics believe that the knowledge of the ultimate is unattainable. That is a completely independent of belief.
You can believe either way, and accept that you will never KNOW; that is agnosticism.

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2009, 04:04 PM
You are absolutely right, when someone puts in enough work to attain a Phd in astrophysics they have every right to be considered "elite" in that field. It's also fair to expect your knowledge of the subject to be comparable before your criticisms of the subject are considered valid.

I've never understood why that is such a tough concept for some people.

Do you have a PHD in football too, because if you don't STFU AZZZZZZZHOLE!

:rofl: :thumbs: :rofl:

Blart
01-27-2009, 04:08 PM
Who would have thought a thread about religion would lead to an argument

alkemical
01-27-2009, 04:10 PM
Not me, it was all Dortoh's fault....

NUB
01-27-2009, 04:14 PM
It still has major holes and is at best, a flawed THEORY.

Oh, and btw, the big bang theory has only been aroun for about 40 years or so.

Ah, I guess technically that is true. Although the evidence for it has been building for quite a bit of time.

Beyond that... It is hardly flawed. You can observe the Big Bang theory through your own eyes better than you can evolution. It takes 30 years for us to see that a lizard magically found himself a newer and bigger stomach and more powerful jaws on a remote island, but it takes only a moment to see the red shift in the sky.

And I don't get why people get so caught up on the word THEORY. You start questioning something because it is a theory and you might as well find yourself a corner to slumber into and die because nothing in this world will make much sense.

Hotrod
01-27-2009, 04:17 PM
Not me, it was all Dortoh's fault....

You know me I like to start deep thought provoking topics.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 04:18 PM
Ah, I guess technically that is true. Although the evidence for it has been building for quite a bit of time.

Beyond that... It is hardly flawed. You can observe the Big Bang theory through your own eyes better than you can evolution. It takes 30 years for us to see that a lizard magically found himself a newer and bigger stomach and more powerful jaws on a remote island, but it takes only a moment to see the red shift in the sky.

And I don't get why people get so caught up on the word THEORY. You start questioning something because it is a theory and you might as well find yourself a corner to slumber into and die because nothing in this world will make much sense.

I'm sorry if this seems short: But that's f'n stupid.

alkemical
01-27-2009, 04:19 PM
You know me I like to start deep thought provoking topics.

I was going to start a thread over the weekend titled:

****ing women....!*()@#)@

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 04:19 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. I wish more people were secure enough to make such a simply statement. how hard is it to say "We don't know, but we'll keep looking for answers."

thats the thing. Scientists DO say they dont know extremely often. Scientists, would MUCH rather say they dont know then make something up. The science you see around you isnt made up, it is based off of the scientific method.

In the end we just want to know the answers to the world around us. We have no reason to make things up. If a theory comes out that is clearly better than what we already have we will gladly change.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 04:42 PM
thats the thing. Scientists DO say they dont know extremely often. Scientists, would MUCH rather say they dont know then make something up. The science you see around you isnt made up, it is based off of the scientific method.

In the end we just want to know the answers to the world around us. We have no reason to make things up. If a theory comes out that is clearly better than what we already have we will gladly change.

That's true to an extent, but there is a nasy habit of academic elitism that doesn't allow for the persuit and study of ideas that may run contrary to currently accepted Scientific doctrine. Try telling someone in the cientific community that you aren't convinced that gravity is constant, or you'd like to consider the concept on intelligent design (not from a religious perspective), and see how accommidating they are. It's not unlike trying to convince people that the world isn't flat.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 04:48 PM
I'm sorry if this seems short: But that's f'n stupid.

Why?
Why do so many seem to believe that a theory is simply an unsupported hunch or speculation.

In sciences other than mathematics the word theory denotes the most powerful status that an explanation can attain. In science a theory is defined as

"A comprehensive frameworks for describing, explaining, and making falsifiable predictions about related sets of phenomena based on rigorous observation experimentation and logic." - my dictionary

Scientific ideas aren't a matter of common sense and scientific knowledge isn't something that just falls in your lap. It requires effort. The principles behind many scientific theory's can be grasped without too much difficulty when you are prepared to try and understand the explanations. Whether or not you decide to accept them is up to you.

But many people dont get as far as even listening to the explanations due to a preexisting belief that whatever they are they must be wrong. It should be immediately obvious that this approach of preemptive rejection has serious repercussions for ones ability to make accurate statements about reality.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 04:49 PM
That's true to an extent, but there is a nasy habit of academic elitism that doesn't allow for the persuit and study of ideas that may run contrary to currently accepted Scientific doctrine. Try telling someone in the cientific community that you aren't convinced that gravity is constant, or you'd like to consider the concept on intelligent design (not from a religious perspective), and see how accommidating they are. It's not unlike trying to convince people that the world isn't flat.

This is true. I am just trying to explain what happens in general and what the actual goal of science is.

2KBack
01-27-2009, 04:51 PM
This is true. I am just trying to explain what happens in general and what the actual goal of science is.

I'm all for the goal of science. I consider Carl Sagan one of my heroes. I'm just skeptical of academic institution.

Prodigal19
01-27-2009, 04:59 PM
On another note, there are two entirely separate debates going on here. One in support of science and one in support of atheism. The two aren't interchangeable.

I am more sure about the role of science than i am unsure about the existence of a higher being. With that said, while I do agree that there is a chance that there is some sort of higher power, I have no doubts that the Christian religion is false. This is based off of probability and critical thinking.

Br0nc0Buster
01-27-2009, 05:01 PM
That's true to an extent, but there is a nasy habit of academic elitism that doesn't allow for the persuit and study of ideas that may run contrary to currently accepted Scientific doctrine. Try telling someone in the cientific community that you aren't convinced that gravity is constant, or you'd like to consider the concept on intelligent design (not from a religious perspective), and see how accommidating they are. It's not unlike trying to convince people that the world isn't flat.

No go ahead.
Go ahead and publish your ideas and back them up with evidence.
Scientists will have to take you seriously then.
But people who argue for intelligent design, or some other silly concept dont ever back their claims up.
ever.
There is a process you have to go through.
You have to publish your ideas in peer reviewed scientific journals.
That is what a lot of religious people dont get.
They dont understand how picked and prodded these ideas and theories have been.
You have no idea how science works if you think a scientist will reject evidence because it disagrees with his "doctrine"

Eldorado
01-27-2009, 05:03 PM
No go ahead.
Go ahead and publish your ideas and back them up with evidence.
Scientists will have to take you seriously then.
But people who argue for intelligent design, or some other silly concept dont ever back their claims up.
ever.
There is a process you have to go through.
You have to publish your ideas in peer reviewed scientific journals.
That is what a lot of religious people dont get.
They dont understand how picked and prodded these ideas and theories have been.
You have no idea how science works if you think a scientist will reject evidence because it disagrees with his "doctrine"

****in A

Pontius Pirate
01-27-2009, 05:57 PM
No go ahead.
Go ahead and publish your ideas and back them up with evidence.
Scientists will have to take you seriously then.
But people who argue for intelligent design, or some other silly concept dont ever back their claims up.
ever.
There is a process you have to go through.
You have to publish your ideas in peer reviewed scientific journals.
That is what a lot of religious people dont get.
They dont understand how picked and prodded these ideas and theories have been.
You have no idea how science works if you think a scientist will reject evidence because it disagrees with his "doctrine"

Watch the movie "Expelled" - it's hilarious good fun. In the end, no one knows anything