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View Full Version : Peppers wants to leave Panthers and go to the 3-4.


watermock
01-25-2009, 09:13 PM
Forget Haynsworth

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/17/peppers-wants-to-play-in-a-3-4-defense/

PEPPERS WANTS TO PLAY IN A 3-4 DEFENSE
Posted by Mike Florio on January 17, 2009, 5:02 p.m. EST
Defensive end Julius Peppers doesn’t want to play for the Panthers. He apparently also doesn’t want to play for any team that uses a 4-3 defense.

“He certainly feels that he can excel and thrive in a 3-4 defense,” agent Carl Carey said Saturday.

This narrows significantly the field of potential suitors, and reduces Peppers’ overall leverage. So maybe a 3-4 defensive isn’t a dealbreaker.

“He is also open to just another system in general that will allow him to maximize his athletic abilities,” Carey added.

It’s unclear whether Peppers envisions himself a defensive end or a linebacker in a 3-4 set. As a linebacker, he’d assume a three-point stance and rush the quarterback on passing downs. As a defensive end, his role on many plays would be to tie up blockers so that linebackers could pursue the ball.

Also on Saturday, the Panthers responded to Peppers’ public effort to leave the team. “Obviously, Carl’s comments are disappointing,” G.M. Marty Hurney said. ”We have consistently reiterated to Carl in a number of ways how much we value Julius, and we plan to continue having ongoing communications.”

Peppers’ stance virtually guarantees that the Panthers will apply the franchise tag to Peppers, and then the Panthers likely will trade him to a new team, which would sign him to a monster deal.
.................................................
The top three pass rushers this season are outside linebackers from 3-4 defenses. Dallas' DeMarcus Ware (19), Miami's Joey Porter (17.5) and Pittsburgh's James Harrison (15) have 51.5 sacks between them. The top three pass rushers from 4-3 defenses -- Atlanta's John Abraham (15.5), Minnesota's Jared Allen (14.5) and Carolina's Julius Peppers (12.5) -- all are defensive ends and have 42.5 sacks between them.

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Go after Peppers, he want out of Carolina and wants the 3-4.

watermock
01-25-2009, 09:16 PM
Also, Suggs shoulder is ****ed and he says he will play for less to stay in Balt.

lex
01-25-2009, 09:17 PM
Id love to get Peppers but I dont want to give up a kings ransom in draft picks to get him. Id gladly trade anyone we have currently though.

baja
01-25-2009, 09:20 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and call it we will sign Peppers. Hide and watch

fido
01-25-2009, 09:20 PM
just say no to peppers....yes to suggs

cutthemdown
01-25-2009, 09:21 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and call it we will sign Peppers. Hide and watch

Great now we have zero chance. Besides unless we can draft a dude whose last name is Salt it won't even be that cool.

TheDave
01-25-2009, 09:22 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and call it we will sign Peppers. Hide and watch

So much for that...

montrose
01-25-2009, 09:22 PM
I'd rather we save our money for now and concentrate on landing stud 3-4 defensive players in the draft.

Man-Goblin
01-25-2009, 09:23 PM
They are certainly in an uproar about this around here; that's for sure. Doesn't really make sense to me, either. The dude has had all kinds of success as a 4-3 end, he's a Carolina guy, and he usually keeps his mouth shut and just plays. Someone must have really pissed him off in the Panthers' organization or he's looking to jack the price up.

Plus, who knows how he would do as an OLB in a 3-4?

watermock
01-25-2009, 09:24 PM
I'd love to lose Champ's groin and franchise contract.

watermock
01-25-2009, 09:34 PM
Unless we can move money into the uncapped year, Champ isn't worth 11 million IMO.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-25-2009, 09:38 PM
Unless we can move money into the uncapped year, Champ isn't worth 11 million IMO.

While I agree, cap room really isnt the issue right now.

baja
01-25-2009, 09:40 PM
I'd love to lose Champ's groin and franchise contract.

is that a mockism

watermock
01-25-2009, 10:14 PM
While I agree, cap room really isnt the issue right now.

In this economy it is.

Regardless, Champ for a 2nd??? WTF u smokin'?

He will be cut or reworked. No way we pay a 31 yo injured player 11m that has to play 10 yards off because of a pathetic front 7.

Broncos_OTM
01-25-2009, 10:18 PM
if we were to get peppers i would keep the D based 4-3 and run 3-4 to mix it up

cutthemdown
01-25-2009, 10:25 PM
if we were to get peppers i would keep the D based 4-3 and run 3-4 to mix it up

Peppers seems determined to try and play the jack in a 3-4. What makes you think he would come to Denver and play a 4-3?

Either that or this is all just some sort of ploy to get out of Carolina.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2009, 10:50 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and call it we will sign Peppers. Hide and watch

i doubt it. if we were staying in the 4-3 and weren't going to end up having to give up as much as 2 1st rounders to aquire him from the Panthers and then on top of that give him probably the biggest ever contract for a DE in league history i would say yes.

but with our more than likely conversion to the 3-4 and him not being a 3-4 end or OLB his value drops and makes it a waste to give up what we would need to to get him, plus the contract he will get will dry up our cap space and make it difficult to re-sign our nucleus of young talent and near impossible to go after any other good FA to help fix our Defense.

getting Peppers is a move for a team with far less holes than we have.

Broncos_OTM
01-25-2009, 11:39 PM
i doubt it. if we were staying in the 4-3 and weren't going to end up having to give up as much as 2 1st rounders to aquire him from the Panthers and then on top of that give him probably the biggest ever contract for a DE in league history i would say yes.

but with our more than likely conversion to the 3-4 and him not being a 3-4 end or OLB his value drops and makes it a waste to give up what we would need to to get him, plus the contract he will get will dry up our cap space and make it difficult to re-sign our nucleus of young talent and near impossible to go after any other good FA to help fix our Defense.

getting Peppers is a move for a team with far less holes than we have.

While that is defiently true in some aspects. sometimes a player like peppers can change the culture of a team..or more specificaly our D

La Caspa Del Diablo
01-26-2009, 12:16 AM
$25-30 million signing bonus is a fat chunk of change for a 3-4 OLB.

There are always stud 3-4 OLB in every draft.

Bottom line, Denver could use all the playmakers they can get on the defensive side of the ball, it doesn't matter where.

BroncoMan4ever
01-26-2009, 12:54 AM
While that is defiently true in some aspects. sometimes a player like peppers can change the culture of a team..or more specificaly our D

true, but is a player who is about to be 30 and possibly on the downside of his career warrant as much as he is going to want and what it is going to take to get him from the Panthers?

figure more than likely the Panthers will not let him go for anything less than a 1st and 3rd rounder, but more than likely will be asking for 2-1st rounders.

the way we have been drafting in recent years we might be forgoing 2 starters and playmakers to the team for 1 guy who might be on the decline.

i would rather continue to build through the draft instead of using the majority of our cap room on 1 guy who might end up playing out of place in a 3-4.

he says he wants to play a 3-4 but that doesn't mean he can do it

OBF1
01-26-2009, 01:02 AM
Why not sign Peppers, Haynesworth and Suggs..... Sure would cure what we lack on defense right away.

BroncoMan4ever
01-26-2009, 01:30 AM
Why not sign Peppers, Haynesworth and Suggs..... Sure would cure what we lack on defense right away.

because for all 3 we would have to give out close to 100million in guaranteed money.

azbroncfan
01-26-2009, 04:04 AM
Why not sign Peppers, Haynesworth and Suggs..... Sure would cure what we lack on defense right away.

Let's throw Atogwe in while we are at it and maybe Dawkins/Sharper for a year or two at the other S position.

rastaman
01-26-2009, 05:50 AM
true, but is a player who is about to be 30 and possibly on the downside of his career warrant as much as he is going to want and what it is going to take to get him from the Panthers?

figure more than likely the Panthers will not let him go for anything less than a 1st and 3rd rounder, but more than likely will be asking for 2-1st rounders.

the way we have been drafting in recent years we might be forgoing 2 starters and playmakers to the team for 1 guy who might be on the decline.

i would rather continue to build through the draft instead of using the majority of our cap room on 1 guy who might end up playing out of place in a 3-4.

he says he wants to play a 3-4 but that doesn't mean he can do it

I see the Broncos having a few options here. Rather than pay the money for the Suggs, Peppers, and Haynesworths of the world, Denver can sign during FA the players who are just one rung below the big name Defensive players to save money and provide depth and veteran presence. Followed by allowing the Goodman's and McDaniels to test their ability to analyze, draft, and develop the young players to help address the weaknesses on the Bronco defense.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-26-2009, 06:15 AM
Why do so many defensive linemen turn into pussies? No one wants to play defensive tackle and now tons don't even want to play defensive end. Waaaaaaaah I might get beat up in a high-contact position and have to spend another 30 minutes in the whirlpool after the game before I drive off in my escalade and spend $2000 on dinner.

Where have you gone Jack Lambert?

TheReverend
01-26-2009, 06:20 AM
Why do so many defensive linemen turn into pussies? No one wants to play defensive tackle and now tons don't even want to play defensive end. Waaaaaaaah I might get beat up in a high-contact position and have to spend another 30 minutes in the whirlpool after the game before I drive off in my escalade and spend $2000 on dinner.

Where have you gone Jack Lambert?

Because the money, the pro-bowls, the all-pros, and the HoF goes to the sack artists. 3-4 guys are getting the numbers. All of them.

BroncoMan4ever
01-26-2009, 06:21 AM
I see the Broncos having a few options here. Rather than pay the money for the Suggs, Peppers, and Haynesworths of the world, Denver can sign during FA the players who are just one rung below the big name Defensive players to save money and provide depth and veteran presence. Followed by allowing the Goodman's and McDaniels to test their ability to analyze, draft, and develop the young players to help address the weaknesses on the Bronco defense.

i agree let the rest of the league go all out in a bidding war for those 3 and us just take our pick of the best of the rest. we can get some quality safeties, depth all over the place. the one good thing about being so terrible on defense is the fact that basically anyone we sign will be an upgrade over what we had last year.

socalorado
01-26-2009, 06:41 AM
Because the money, the pro-bowls, the all-pros, and the HoF goes to the sack artists. 3-4 guys are getting the numbers. All of them.

Can i get your take on Peppers. Worth it or no? I am a little iffy on him just up and converting myself. Although he is a beast of an athlete.

Suggs had 2 sacks with a f'ed up shoulder against PITT. Yeah, the dude was at like 40%, and he STILL had 2 sacks against PITT. If he totally recovers and is 100%, i would kinda like to get a guy who already knows the 3-4 and will play though pain for the team.

Paladin
01-26-2009, 06:52 AM
Can i get your take on Peppers. Worth it or no? I am a little iffy on him just up and converting myself. Although he is a beast of an athlete.

Suggs had 2 sacks with a f'ed up shoulder against PITT. Yeah, the dude was at like 40%, and he STILL had 2 sacks against PITT. If he totally recovers and is 100%, i would kinda like to get a guy who already knows the 3-4 and will play though pain for the team.

If Carolina franchises him, it would take two first rounders to get him. Is he worth losing those picks for two years? At that kind of money for a guaranteed one year deal? On a D that is rebuilding? Nah, I don't think so. I have no idea if the Panthers would take less than the two #1s, but the deal would be too much unless Peppers gave up some of the grandstanding for big bucks. I don't see Denver doing that.........

TheReverend
01-26-2009, 06:53 AM
Can i get your take on Peppers. Worth it or no? I am a little iffy on him just up and converting myself. Although he is a beast of an athlete.

Suggs had 2 sacks with a f'ed up shoulder against PITT. Yeah, the dude was at like 40%, and he STILL had 2 sacks against PITT. If he totally recovers and is 100%, i would kinda like to get a guy who already knows the 3-4 and will play though pain for the team.

Expensive. Extremely expensive. Probably only worth it in the 4-3. Remember the kind of money Oakland poured onto mediocre players like Wilson and Kelly? Imagine what they might consider tossing at Peppers to pair with Burgess. That IS an extreme but a LOT of teams are probably already putting together packages to pitch at him. He'll cost over $10 million a year, maybe even closer to 15.

For a 3-4 he could work based off his sheer athleticism and power, but he also might not. He's got the same freak genes that Courtney had, minus the injury history, and Romeo couldn't fit him as a stand-up rusher. I doubt it's worth the gamble.

Suggs, Scott and Ray won't go ANYWHERE. If ANY do (and if I had to guess, the only one that MIGHT leave would be Scott), it would be to the Jets.

WolfpackGuy
01-26-2009, 06:55 AM
Too expensive.
I'd rather have 3 GOOD players instead of 1 GREAT player.
Let the youth movement continue.

socalorado
01-26-2009, 07:00 AM
Expensive. Extremely expensive. Probably only worth it in the 4-3. Remember the kind of money Oakland poured onto mediocre players like Wilson and Kelly? Imagine what they might consider tossing at Peppers to pair with Burgess. That IS an extreme but a LOT of teams are probably already putting together packages to pitch at him. He'll cost over $10 million a year, maybe even closer to 15.

For a 3-4 he could work based off his sheer athleticism and power, but he also might not. He's got the same freak genes that Courtney had, minus the injury history, and Romeo couldn't fit him as a stand-up rusher. I doubt it's worth the gamble.

Suggs, Scott and Ray won't go ANYWHERE. If ANY do (and if I had to guess, the only one that MIGHT leave would be Scott), it would be to the Jets.


17. Baltimore -- $19m under – CBs Samari Rolle & Chris McAlister count a combined $17m. Pay cuts or both hit the road. The Ravens are a relatively low payroll club who’s squeezed the most they could out of what they have. 3 of the top-6 defensive free agents on the 2009 market are Ravens: DE Terrell Suggs, LB Bart Scott, and LB Ray Lewis. They can’t keep all three. Maybe only one. TE Todd Heap already took a pay cut once so they might just cut him. It would free up $3.6m. The big rumor is a straight-up trade: Terrell Suggs for Anquan Boldin. Wow!


What are they gonna take pay cuts!?!?!? Theres no way in hell they can sign all three. I also cannot see BALT cutting Heap. Jeez, hes money and Flacco's safety net, so i think theres going to be some moving going on there.

TheReverend
01-26-2009, 07:21 AM
17. Baltimore -- $19m under – CBs Samari Rolle & Chris McAlister count a combined $17m. Pay cuts or both hit the road. The Ravens are a relatively low payroll club who’s squeezed the most they could out of what they have. 3 of the top-6 defensive free agents on the 2009 market are Ravens: DE Terrell Suggs, LB Bart Scott, and LB Ray Lewis. They can’t keep all three. Maybe only one. TE Todd Heap already took a pay cut once so they might just cut him. It would free up $3.6m. The big rumor is a straight-up trade: Terrell Suggs for Anquan Boldin. Wow!


What are they gonna take pay cuts!?!?!? Theres no way in hell they can sign all three. I also cannot see BALT cutting Heap. Jeez, hes money and Flacco's safety net, so i think theres going to be some moving going on there.

Ray's been posturing for more money for over a year, but he won't go anywhere. Suggs wants to stay more than life itself. Rolle or McAlister will be gone way before one of those two. Scott MAY leave and if he does, he'll probably run to Rex.

Suggs for Boldin? Rosenhaus can play all he wants, NO ONE in Arizona is playing any of his games until the middle of February at the earliest and Rod Graves WANTS to retain Anquan. Badly.

peacepipe
01-26-2009, 07:28 AM
I'd rather we save our money for now and concentrate on landing stud 3-4 defensive players in the draft.save for what? If you've got the money to get better players use it. BTW, have you noticed that it's hatder to draft a good DE than it is to draft a good QB.

socalorado
01-26-2009, 07:33 AM
Ray's been posturing for more money for over a year, but he won't go anywhere. Suggs wants to stay more than life itself. Rolle or McAlister will be gone way before one of those two. Scott MAY leave and if he does, he'll probably run to Rex.

Suggs for Boldin? Rosenhaus can play all he wants, NO ONE in Arizona is playing any of his games until the middle of February at the earliest and Rod Graves WANTS to retain Anquan. Badly.

So DEN isnt getting Suggs or Peppers, is what you think.

TheReverend
01-26-2009, 08:09 AM
So DEN isnt getting Suggs or Peppers, is what you think.

Well, not necessarily. It depends on the open-mindedness of Nolan and McD. If they want to grab Peppers, they need to be open to staying 4-3 in case he can't play the 3-4. I'd say no chance on Suggs though he'd be great here in 4-3 or 3-4, and slim odds on Peppers.

bjeffrey
01-26-2009, 08:15 AM
I like Bart Scott. If 2008 showed us anything, its that we need players who can stay on the field. Suggs' shoulder scares me.

Bronco X
01-26-2009, 08:18 AM
So Peppers wants to play the 3-4, so he won't sign with Denver to play the 4-3, but he's won't be good in the 3-4 so he's not worth signing if they are going to the 3-4, so he's they should only sign him if they're staying in the 4-3... only he won't sign here then. This thread makes the plot to Lost look like a Dick and Jane book.

I'd love to say "Screw high priced free agents, we must build through the draft". But it takes time and you can't take free agency and trades off the table when looking to improve the team. If the coaching staff feels Peppers is as versatile as he thinks he is, they have to look at him... IMO much of the gun shyness of the fans here over free agent pick ups stems from Shanny-era busts, but the new management should be moving forward instead of trying to over compensate for past mistakes.

gyldenlove
01-26-2009, 08:20 AM
Ray's been posturing for more money for over a year, but he won't go anywhere. Suggs wants to stay more than life itself. Rolle or McAlister will be gone way before one of those two. Scott MAY leave and if he does, he'll probably run to Rex.

Suggs for Boldin? Rosenhaus can play all he wants, NO ONE in Arizona is playing any of his games until the middle of February at the earliest and Rod Graves WANTS to retain Anquan. Badly.

Suggs also wants to get paid, that is why he took the Ravens to arbitration last year about his franchise tag, they wanted to give him the LB tag, he wanted the DE tag which would pay him almost 1 million more.

Ray is going to look for a deal in the Calvin Pace size, maybe more. Suggs is going to be looking at Dwight Freeney and asking for about the same, 100 mill over 7 years. Scott will ask for something in the Adalius Thomas region. Along with Dawan Landry, draft picks and restructuring Rolle they are going to come up well short of having that kind of money, plus they are not going to get all deals done before FA starts and then the offers will come pouring in.

TonyR
01-26-2009, 08:29 AM
Suggs also wants to get paid...

I agree. These guys are talking about "home town discount" right now but that discount is only going to be so much. I'd be very surprised if all 3 end up staying in Baltimore.

cutthemdown
01-26-2009, 08:32 AM
I see the Broncos having a few options here. Rather than pay the money for the Suggs, Peppers, and Haynesworths of the world, Denver can sign during FA the players who are just one rung below the big name Defensive players to save money and provide depth and veteran presence. Followed by allowing the Goodman's and McDaniels to test their ability to analyze, draft, and develop the young players to help address the weaknesses on the Bronco defense.

name what FA you speak of. IMO lower tier guys are what we tried last yr and they stunk.

TheReverend
01-26-2009, 08:46 AM
Suggs also wants to get paid, that is why he took the Ravens to arbitration last year about his franchise tag, they wanted to give him the LB tag, he wanted the DE tag which would pay him almost 1 million more.

Ray is going to look for a deal in the Calvin Pace size, maybe more. Suggs is going to be looking at Dwight Freeney and asking for about the same, 100 mill over 7 years. Scott will ask for something in the Adalius Thomas region. Along with Dawan Landry, draft picks and restructuring Rolle they are going to come up well short of having that kind of money, plus they are not going to get all deals done before FA starts and then the offers will come pouring in.

Lots of very good points in this post, but also keep in mind a lot of this was after a miserable ravens season and not one that saw them in the AFCCG with a promising rookie qb and coach when they hadn't had a bye week since week 2. That will go a long ways in the short term, but they'll still want money, and they'll get a little less than they deserve.

socalorado
01-26-2009, 08:57 AM
Lots of very good points in this post, but also keep in mind a lot of this was after a miserable ravens season and not one that saw them in the AFCCG with a promising rookie qb and coach when they hadn't had a bye week since week 2. That will go a long ways in the short term, but they'll still want money, and they'll get a little less than they deserve.

I think when it all comes down to it, the posturing of some of these guys isnt going to translate when it comes down to brass tax. Money talks and Bull$h!t walks. Suggs will want his $$$, and IMHO BALT just cant throw out that kind of coin. Of course i am also hoping this happens, so maybe i am just a little too optimistic. If DEN could just get Suggs in FA, it would be a tremendous signing.

TheReverend
01-26-2009, 09:05 AM
I think when it all comes down to it, the posturing of some of these guys isnt going to translate when it comes down to brass tax. Money talks and Bull$h!t walks. Suggs will want his $$$, and IMHO BALT just cant throw out that kind of coin. Of course i am also hoping this happens, so maybe i am just a little too optimistic. If DEN could just get Suggs in FA, it would be a tremendous signing.

He'd be a great replacement for Elvis in the base package :wiggle:

I'm on record saying he's a Raven next season, though.

socalorado
01-26-2009, 09:17 AM
He'd be a great replacement for Elvis in the base package :wiggle:

I'm on record saying he's a Raven next season, though.

Well, he possibly could, maybe, just maybe beat out Elvis for the starting position, yeah. Thats a big maybe , but it could happen...;)

I'm on record as hoping Bowlen buys him a fur coat which puts the DENs offer over the top and he comes to DEN and is a monster for them!

TheReverend
01-26-2009, 09:21 AM
Well, he possibly could, maybe, just maybe beat out Elvis for the starting position, yeah. Thats a big maybe , but it could happen...;)

I'm on record as hoping Bowlen buys him a fur coat which puts the DENs offer over the top and he comes to DEN and is a monster for them!

Better odds that Bowlen stumbles into him in a drunken stupor and then vomits in his face.

DBroncos4life
01-26-2009, 10:03 AM
If Carolina franchises him, it would take two first rounders to get him. Is he worth losing those picks for two years? At that kind of money for a guaranteed one year deal? On a D that is rebuilding? Nah, I don't think so. I have no idea if the Panthers would take less than the two #1s, but the deal would be too much unless Peppers gave up some of the grandstanding for big bucks. I don't see Denver doing that.........

Im pretty sure I heard they tagged Gross.

OBF1
01-26-2009, 10:07 AM
Let's throw Atogwe in while we are at it and maybe Dawkins/Sharper for a year or two at the other S position.

I am glad someone else is onboard with my master plan :thumbsup:

DBroncos4life
01-26-2009, 10:13 AM
I would like to see the team focus on a few under the radar LBs like Eric Barton and Mike Peterson. Is James Farrior a FA or not? Chris Canty is a good choice for DE too.