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View Full Version : What Denver Needs to have happen


rugbythug
01-21-2009, 08:56 AM
1 Detroit Eugene Monroe OT Virginia
2 St Louis Michael Oher OT Mississippi
3 Kansas City Stafford QB
4 Seattle Michael Crabtree WRF Texas Tech
5 Cleveland Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio State
6 Cincinnati Andre Smith OT Alabama
7 Oakland Brian Orakpo DE43 Texas
8 Jacksonville Jason Smith OT Baylor
9 Green Bay BJ Raji DT43 Boston College
10 San Francisco Mark Sanchez QB
11 Buffalo Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma St
12 Denver Pick OF LB's

no-pseudo-fan
01-21-2009, 09:15 AM
I am really liking Raji, a little more than LB right now.

SoDak Bronco
01-21-2009, 09:21 AM
Big Bj Raji

socalorado
01-21-2009, 09:24 AM
I am really liking Raji, a little more than LB right now.

Not more than Curry. No Way. Curry is a slam dunk. immediate upgrade, and a player that can play at a high level at any LB position no matter what defense DEN runs.
He would play, and dominate day one.
If Curry was there he would easily justify taking a DT/NT in the 2nd or 3rd.

Curry is a no brainer. But i dont see him making it to #12. I just dont see CLE letting him get by.
On a side note, Andra Davis is a UFA this year. Interesting.

socalorado
01-21-2009, 09:27 AM
See, even Butkis knows who the man is..
http://cdn.faniq.com/images/photos/photo_large/26/631126-21.jpg

rugbythug
01-21-2009, 09:37 AM
I like Ziggy Hood more than Raji.

no-pseudo-fan
01-21-2009, 09:37 AM
LOL. I love Curry too, but I think that Raji might be a bigger help to us. I would of loved to see him at the Senior Bowl.

Drek
01-21-2009, 09:49 AM
I like Ziggy Hood more than Raji.

In what way will the two of them even play the same role in a defense?

Ziggy Hood is a 4-3 UT in the pro game, a 3-4 DE. Raji can play NT in either front.

And no, Raji really is on an entirely different tier than Hood who compares much better with say, Brace.

As for Curry, he's the flat out best player in this draft in my opinion. Hands down #1 talent. Passing on him is like passing on Calvin Johnson the year before last. He's a guy you find a role for. He also won't even get close to the #12 spot short of a miracle.

If we were to draft at #12 based entirely on talent and BPA then the best thing we could hope to have happen, short of something totally unrealistic like Curry falling to us, would be hoping on Malcolm Jenkins sliding into our laps. He's an athletic talent at the CB position on par with Champ, pairing the two together for a couple years would all but assure us that he'd realize much if not all of his full potential and keep our CBs at a top notch level even after Champ hangs it up.

no-pseudo-fan
01-21-2009, 09:57 AM
I just don't see us going CB in the first. We need line help 1st and foremost. Unless we trade Champ, this is a DT/LB pick.

ludo21
01-21-2009, 10:12 AM
Curry would be a slam dunk there. No questions asked, you take the sure thing.

socalorado
01-21-2009, 10:13 AM
I just don't see us going CB in the first. We need line help 1st and foremost. Unless we trade Champ, this is a DT/LB pick.

It could happen, and dont be suprised if it doesnt. Quality CBs can be a nightmare to find and keep, and Champ is just not the same player he once was. In a way we have Shanny to thank for that. Over-used him, and made him play outta position a little too much. Its not the age, its the mileage.
Disclaimer: I love Champ Bailey as much as the next fan! OK!??! But getting a quality CB and looking toward the future of the franchise is wise.
If DEN aquired a NT, a LB and a S in FA, or a combination of 2, i could see DEN taking Jenkins without hesitation.

gyldenlove
01-21-2009, 10:16 AM
I have a massive man crush on Curry, he has EVERYthing you want in a LB.

I do agree that Raji may be more of an upgrade, but the athleticism, motor, instincts, tackling and leadership on Curry are just too good to pass up if he falls.

chaz
01-21-2009, 10:34 AM
I think our pick will be between Jenkins, Raji, and Everett Brown with Tyson Jackson and William Moore as wildcards if they work out well.

Obviously workouts always change the landscape of the draft quite a bit....more than they should.

Curry would have to injure himself to fall to 12...pipe dream.

rugbythug
01-21-2009, 01:28 PM
In what way will the two of them even play the same role in a defense?

Ziggy Hood is a 4-3 UT in the pro game, a 3-4 DE. Raji can play NT in either front.

And no, Raji really is on an entirely different tier than Hood who compares much better with say, Brace.

As for Curry, he's the flat out best player in this draft in my opinion. Hands down #1 talent. Passing on him is like passing on Calvin Johnson the year before last. He's a guy you find a role for. He also won't even get close to the #12 spot short of a miracle.

If we were to draft at #12 based entirely on talent and BPA then the best thing we could hope to have happen, short of something totally unrealistic like Curry falling to us, would be hoping on Malcolm Jenkins sliding into our laps. He's an athletic talent at the CB position on par with Champ, pairing the two together for a couple years would all but assure us that he'd realize much if not all of his full potential and keep our CBs at a top notch level even after Champ hangs it up.

I see Ziggy Hood as a Ratliff/Ferguson Player. Both Play NT. I am not that caught up in the 25lb weight difference. Ziggy could put on the 25lbs that Raji is carrying in a summer of Dairy Queen. I like him as a football player, he pushes the pile and does not get moved easily.

NFLBRONCO
01-21-2009, 01:49 PM
I do not want to draft a player because its our biggest weakness . We have tons of needs so BPA is best way to go.

chaz
01-21-2009, 01:55 PM
I do not want to draft a player because its our biggest weakness . We have tons of needs so BPA is best way to go.

I would just ammend that to BPA on defense...especially somewhere in the front 7

no-pseudo-fan
01-21-2009, 01:59 PM
I am a BPA guy, but offense is not a need and CB and Safety are not likely at that pick. That kind of handcuffs you a little bit on the BPA front. It has to be DT, MLB, DE in that order.

Drek
01-21-2009, 02:08 PM
I see Ziggy Hood as a Ratliff/Ferguson Player. Both Play NT. I am not that caught up in the 25lb weight difference. Ziggy could put on the 25lbs that Raji is carrying in a summer of Dairy Queen. I like him as a football player, he pushes the pile and does not get moved easily.

And that 25 pounds of Dairy Queen weight wouldn't be worth anything. Also, Hood has put on over 40 pounds since entering college, its entirely possible his frame is tapped out from a size standpoint.

I like Ziggy Hood, kinda have to living in St. Louis as most people here are Mizzou crazy, but he strikes me as a hell of a lot better fit as a 3-4 DE than a NT. He's a good athlete, explosive, and a shown a lot of talent for getting penetration on the inside. Asking him to just fill gaps and drive back the LOS is using him for something he isn't ideally suited for while at the same time wasting his potential at what he is suited for.

I'd love to see us pick up Ziggy Hood with our 2nd round pick especially if we go to a 3-4 because I think teamed with Thomas on the other side and a capable NT we'd have a very effective front line that could legitimately be expected to generate pressure without much LB assistance. You do that and a whole world of possibilities open up to you for play calling and scheming. But he isn't a top 15 pick, Raji is, and Raji has the size and functional strength to be a very good NT in the NFL.

I've said it on this board though, you don't take BJ Raji at #12 if you want to run a straight 3-4. He's got too diverse a skill set for that, much like Haloti Ngata. You need to let him get up field and penetrate from time to time or you're only getting half his real value. If we run a hybrid I'd love getting Raji, I'd even really like him as the NT to pair with Thomas at UT in a 4-3, but in the 3-4 as a straight NT he's over picking for skills you won't use. We'd be better off with Brace or another big mound in the later rounds.

lex
01-21-2009, 02:17 PM
And that 25 pounds of Dairy Queen weight wouldn't be worth anything. Also, Hood has put on over 40 pounds since entering college, its entirely possible his frame is tapped out from a size standpoint.

I like Ziggy Hood, kinda have to living in St. Louis as most people here are Mizzou crazy, but he strikes me as a hell of a lot better fit as a 3-4 DE than a NT. He's a good athlete, explosive, and a shown a lot of talent for getting penetration on the inside. Asking him to just fill gaps and drive back the LOS is using him for something he isn't ideally suited for while at the same time wasting his potential at what he is suited for.

I'd love to see us pick up Ziggy Hood with our 2nd round pick especially if we go to a 3-4 because I think teamed with Thomas on the other side and a capable NT we'd have a very effective front line that could legitimately be expected to generate pressure without much LB assistance. You do that and a whole world of possibilities open up to you for play calling and scheming. But he isn't a top 15 pick, Raji is, and Raji has the size and functional strength to be a very good NT in the NFL.

I've said it on this board though, you don't take BJ Raji at #12 if you want to run a straight 3-4. He's got too diverse a skill set for that, much like Haloti Ngata. You need to let him get up field and penetrate from time to time or you're only getting half his real value. If we run a hybrid I'd love getting Raji, I'd even really like him as the NT to pair with Thomas at UT in a 4-3, but in the 3-4 as a straight NT he's over picking for skills you won't use. We'd be better off with Brace or another big mound in the later rounds.

This is partly why I had us also taking Brace in my Ides of January mock. With Brace, you could actually move Raji out to DE when its advantageous to do so. Having Brace, theoretically, gives you that kind of flexibility. Also, the way NE has run the 3-4 is by having 2 gappers along the LOS. Not all 3-4 teams do this. So, by picking Brace, we might have the best 2 two-gappers in the draft.

NFLBRONCO
01-21-2009, 02:21 PM
I would just ammend that to BPA on defense...especially somewhere in the front 7

TY for the ammend yeah I mean't D.


I will say though if we are pretty active in FA I could see a skill player on O drafted in top 2 rounds.

SoDak Bronco
01-21-2009, 02:22 PM
And that 25 pounds of Dairy Queen weight wouldn't be worth anything. Also, Hood has put on over 40 pounds since entering college, its entirely possible his frame is tapped out from a size standpoint.

I like Ziggy Hood, kinda have to living in St. Louis as most people here are Mizzou crazy, but he strikes me as a hell of a lot better fit as a 3-4 DE than a NT. He's a good athlete, explosive, and a shown a lot of talent for getting penetration on the inside. Asking him to just fill gaps and drive back the LOS is using him for something he isn't ideally suited for while at the same time wasting his potential at what he is suited for.

I'd love to see us pick up Ziggy Hood with our 2nd round pick especially if we go to a 3-4 because I think teamed with Thomas on the other side and a capable NT we'd have a very effective front line that could legitimately be expected to generate pressure without much LB assistance. You do that and a whole world of possibilities open up to you for play calling and scheming. But he isn't a top 15 pick, Raji is, and Raji has the size and functional strength to be a very good NT in the NFL.

I've said it on this board though, you don't take BJ Raji at #12 if you want to run a straight 3-4. He's got too diverse a skill set for that, much like Haloti Ngata. You need to let him get up field and penetrate from time to time or you're only getting half his real value. If we run a hybrid I'd love getting Raji, I'd even really like him as the NT to pair with Thomas at UT in a 4-3, but in the 3-4 as a straight NT he's over picking for skills you won't use. We'd be better off with Brace or another big mound in the later rounds.


It sounds like this is going to be great problem to have. I think with Nolan we will be able to run the Hy-brid, 3-4 scheme. I don't know if he is as athletic as Ngata, but I hope he comes to denver and surprises us.

oubronco
01-21-2009, 02:29 PM
I am really liking Raji, a little more than LB right now.

I'd take a BJ right about now :wiggle:

no-pseudo-fan
01-21-2009, 02:34 PM
I'd take a BJ right about now :wiggle:

LOL you read my mind.

I was thinking about the threads the day of the Draft.

Denver misses out on BJ

Denver Passes on BJ

McD first order of business: BJ

rugbythug
01-21-2009, 03:07 PM
And that 25 pounds of Dairy Queen weight wouldn't be worth anything. Also, Hood has put on over 40 pounds since entering college, its entirely possible his frame is tapped out from a size standpoint.

I like Ziggy Hood, kinda have to living in St. Louis as most people here are Mizzou crazy, but he strikes me as a hell of a lot better fit as a 3-4 DE than a NT. He's a good athlete, explosive, and a shown a lot of talent for getting penetration on the inside. Asking him to just fill gaps and drive back the LOS is using him for something he isn't ideally suited for while at the same time wasting his potential at what he is suited for.

I'd love to see us pick up Ziggy Hood with our 2nd round pick especially if we go to a 3-4 because I think teamed with Thomas on the other side and a capable NT we'd have a very effective front line that could legitimately be expected to generate pressure without much LB assistance. You do that and a whole world of possibilities open up to you for play calling and scheming. But he isn't a top 15 pick, Raji is, and Raji has the size and functional strength to be a very good NT in the NFL.

I've said it on this board though, you don't take BJ Raji at #12 if you want to run a straight 3-4. He's got too diverse a skill set for that, much like Haloti Ngata. You need to let him get up field and penetrate from time to time or you're only getting half his real value. If we run a hybrid I'd love getting Raji, I'd even really like him as the NT to pair with Thomas at UT in a 4-3, but in the 3-4 as a straight NT he's over picking for skills you won't use. We'd be better off with Brace or another big mound in the later rounds.

I was not thinking of Ziggy as a top 15 pick. I was thinking with our 2nd rounder. I just don't like Raji at 12. I would prefer a player who is not as risky. Raji seems to be too much boom or bust. I want a solid low bust potential pick.

lex
01-21-2009, 03:19 PM
I was not thinking of Ziggy as a top 15 pick. I was thinking with our 2nd rounder. I just don't like Raji at 12. I would prefer a player who is not as risky. Raji seems to be too much boom or bust. I want a solid low bust potential pick.

Beanie Wells

rugbythug
01-21-2009, 03:37 PM
Beanie Wells

I like him. The 4 years he would play would be great. But will the D be super bowl ready in 2010-2012?

snowspot66
01-21-2009, 04:28 PM
If he turned out well we would likely have six years. The first year or two RB's often give a lot but it's not until year three to six that they peak. After that it's all downhill. I think we would be ready in that time.

Drek
01-21-2009, 05:48 PM
It sounds like this is going to be great problem to have. I think with Nolan we will be able to run the Hy-brid, 3-4 scheme. I don't know if he is as athletic as Ngata, but I hope he comes to denver and surprises us.

It would be if it didn't cost the #12 overall pick in the draft. If we're going to run a straight 3-4 then there are much better ways to spend the pick.

If we do want to go hybrid though? I could see grabbing Raji at #12. I think he's a high risk prospect, but then nearly every DT is and sometimes you just got to sack up and hope to hit a home run. Its tough to hit the home run if you limit how you use the guy though, and don't let him make use of all his talents.

I was not thinking of Ziggy as a top 15 pick. I was thinking with our 2nd rounder. I just don't like Raji at 12. I would prefer a player who is not as risky. Raji seems to be too much boom or bust. I want a solid low bust potential pick.

I'm with you on that, but Raji is definitely a superior prospect to Ziggy hands down, and would fill an entirely different role if we were to select him.

lex
01-21-2009, 06:16 PM
I like him. The 4 years he would play would be great. But will the D be super bowl ready in 2010-2012?


4 years? A lot of that average is driven by backups who are replaced. But the good thing is that RBs tend to pay dividends sooner than other positions.

TheDave
01-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Unfortunately, unless something major happens in the next few months neither Curry or Raji are going to be there at 12.

ward63
01-21-2009, 09:04 PM
I am really liking Raji, a little more than LB right now.

I have been thinking about this for a while now and I cannot agree. I know there are plenty of examples of a great front 4 or 3 and a decent back 7, but look what Al Wilson did with a sh#* DL! He made the defense look pretty respectable, so I'd say go with a LB

rugbythug
01-21-2009, 09:07 PM
I have been thinking about this for a while now and I cannot agree. I know there are plenty of examples of a great front 4 or 3 and a decent back 7, but look what Al Wilson did with a sh#* DL! He made the defense look pretty respectable, so I'd say go with a LB

He had Trevor, That was always a bonus. Plus the Browncos get no love they were pretty good that year.

ward63
01-22-2009, 07:18 AM
He had Trevor, That was always a bonus. Plus the Browncos get no love they were pretty good that year.

That was a year or two. What about the years with guys like Mario Fatafehi(sp?)? Guys like we have now, that really do not make it anywhere else.

rugbythug
01-22-2009, 08:12 AM
That was a year or two. What about the years with guys like Mario Fatafehi(sp?)? Guys like we have now, that really do not make it anywhere else.

I think you are mistaken. He was there in all but 1 year. I am not downplaying Wilson. I loved him and we need another one.

Dempsey Dog
01-22-2009, 09:09 AM
It could happen, and dont be suprised if it doesnt. Quality CBs can be a nightmare to find and keep, and Champ is just not the same player he once was. In a way we have Shanny to thank for that. Over-used him, and made him play outta position a little too much. Its not the age, its the mileage.
Disclaimer: I love Champ Bailey as much as the next fan! OK!??! But getting a quality CB and looking toward the future of the franchise is wise.
If DEN aquired a NT, a LB and a S in FA, or a combination of 2, i could see DEN taking Jenkins without hesitation.

I take it you cringed every time you saw Champ playing on special teams then....me too!

:moody:

chaz
01-22-2009, 09:29 AM
4 years? A lot of that average is driven by backups who are replaced. But the good thing is that RBs tend to pay dividends sooner than other positions.

But then your logic to pick Beanie is ass-backwards...if defensive picks take longer to develop it doesn't make sense to draft the franchise back sooner and the defensive guys later. Get your shiit straight on defense and THEN draft the franchise back.