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View Full Version : Clue that we are in fact switching to a 3-4?


BigPlayShay
01-19-2009, 10:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3844396

NFL teams were frothing over the workouts of Canadian Football League pass-rush specialist Cameron Wake, and the Miami Dolphins had to fork over a nice sum to land him.

The Dolphins signed Wake to what's believed to be the richest CFL-to-NFL contract: four years worth as much as $4.9 million and nearly $1 million in guaranteed money.

Wake, who is 260 pounds and amassed 39 sacks over the past two seasons for the B.C. Lions, will play outside linebacker in the Dolphins' 3-4 scheme and could be a dangerous force opposite Joey Porter.

And later in the article:

Wake also worked out for the Indianapolis Colts, Denver Broncos and Arizona Cardinals among several other clubs.

Now this isn't proof, but why would we want another undersized defensive linemen if we were staying in the 4-3 if we already have Dumervil?

cutthemdown
01-19-2009, 11:21 PM
Hmmm I don't know doesn't Ariz and Indy both run a 4-3?

lex
01-19-2009, 11:22 PM
Hmmm I don't know doesn't Ariz and Indy both run a 4-3?


Isnt Az transitioning to it?

tsiguy96
01-19-2009, 11:25 PM
ummm not necessarily. its been said we will run whatever best fits the personnel, and at this point either is just as likely as the other, however we dont have any option at NT. either way, except to see atleast some improvement.

NFLBRONCO
01-19-2009, 11:38 PM
Do you think Denver will get anything out of Moss and Crowder in a 3-4?

NFLBRONCO
01-19-2009, 11:44 PM
If Crowder and Moss work out in 3-4 wouldn't we be farther along overall talent wise vs 4-3?

Can someone do a side by side what Denver needs would be in 3-4 vs 4-3

in 4-3

I figure we need DE DT MLB both S positions upgraded.

3-4

NT both DE spots Both S spots ILB

SouthStndJunkie
01-19-2009, 11:58 PM
Denver simply does not have the personnel to run the 3-4 next year.

I see them running the 4-3 for a year or two, while compiling talent to run the 3-4.

As much as I want to see us transition to the 3-4, I just don't think it is realistic in 2009.

The 3-4 topic should not be brought up again until we find a suitable NT....and then we can build from there.

Popps
01-20-2009, 12:04 AM
Interesting thread. Good catch. Maybe nothing, but these are the exact kinds of things that will give us our clues as the draft/FA approaches.

As for what we need to convert to a 3-4, our biggest problem is obviously at NT and LB. But, I had a thought...

Robertson and Thomas actually fit the bill for a 3-4 DE fairly well. They're both very agile, 300ish types that can hold up against the run and have have the ability to penetrate.

What about putting those guys out at the end spots and just signing a NT in FA, or drafting one?

We were also talking about Dumervil getting looks at OLB, potentially the weak side. I'm not sure if he covers enough ground, but it might be worth a look.

I hate DJ on the inside, but if we can get a true banger lined up next to him, maybe it works for the time being.

On the other side, we definitely have a problem. Boss Bailey is a joke, and Winborn isn't a 3-4 OLB, from what I can tell. (Sadly, because I think he's played fairly well.)


What do you guys think about moving our DTs out to end in a 3-4?

Popps
01-20-2009, 12:11 AM
From the previously posted breakdown on the 3-4...

Inside Linebackers (ILB):

In a 3-4 system, the SILB (strongside inside linebacker) and WILB (weakside inside linebacker) typically have slightly differing roles.

The primary concern of the SILB is to shed blocks and stop the run on the inside (Larson?) , whereas the WILB is a pass covering MLB who is also decent at run stuffing. (That does sound a little like DJ) Both need to be able to get to the outside when an outside run is featured.

The SILB does not need elite speed (Larson) - instead, he needs to be able to handle interior offensive lineman (A little undersized at 240?) , shed blocks, and get to the runner. The SILB also blitzes sometimes to create pressure up the middle.

The WILB is generally a smaller, faster version of the SILB who has skills in pass coverage. (DJ) Often times, he is one on one with a tight end, or drops back into zone coverage around the middle. He is also however decent at scraping blocks and stopping the run when needed. SILB need good hips and reaction in order to cover well.

Drafting interior linebackers for a 3-4 generally does not differ too much from drafting a 4-3 linebacker. A typical ILB will weigh in the 240-260lb range. Teams will look for MLB in a 4-3 who have certain characteristics of either a SILB or WILB. In addition, ILB who very physical are important, especially for the SILB, as most of the time they are matched up against lineman.
Characteristics and traits:
3-4 OLB have long arms (Dumervil does) , to keep blockers away while rushing.
Many 3-4 OLB have elite burst and acceleration (Elvis does, and does being in space help him avoid being locked up so often?)
A 3-4 OLB will typically weigh 240-275lbs. Their height can be anything, although a standard 3-4 OLB will typically be in the 6'2 to 6'6 range (Well, maybe a slight problem there.)

Anyway, stuff to think about.

CHANGSTER
01-20-2009, 12:48 AM
From the previously posted breakdown on the 3-4...

Inside Linebackers (ILB):

In a 3-4 system, the SILB (strongside inside linebacker) and WILB (weakside inside linebacker) typically have slightly differing roles.

The primary concern of the SILB is to shed blocks and stop the run on the inside (Larson?) , whereas the WILB is a pass covering MLB who is also decent at run stuffing. (That does sound a little like DJ) Both need to be able to get to the outside when an outside run is featured.

The SILB does not need elite speed (Larson) - instead, he needs to be able to handle interior offensive lineman (A little undersized at 240?) , shed blocks, and get to the runner. The SILB also blitzes sometimes to create pressure up the middle.

The WILB is generally a smaller, faster version of the SILB who has skills in pass coverage. (DJ) Often times, he is one on one with a tight end, or drops back into zone coverage around the middle. He is also however decent at scraping blocks and stopping the run when needed. SILB need good hips and reaction in order to cover well.

Drafting interior linebackers for a 3-4 generally does not differ too much from drafting a 4-3 linebacker. A typical ILB will weigh in the 240-260lb range. Teams will look for MLB in a 4-3 who have certain characteristics of either a SILB or WILB. In addition, ILB who very physical are important, especially for the SILB, as most of the time they are matched up against lineman.
Characteristics and traits:
3-4 OLB have long arms (Dumervil does) , to keep blockers away while rushing.
Many 3-4 OLB have elite burst and acceleration (Elvis does, and does being in space help him avoid being locked up so often?)
A 3-4 OLB will typically weigh 240-275lbs. Their height can be anything, although a standard 3-4 OLB will typically be in the 6'2 to 6'6 range (Well, maybe a slight problem there.)

Anyway, stuff to think about.

Good post. Makes me feel a bit more optimistic about the possible switch. Wont have to scrap nearly as many decent players than I first thought goin with what you have listed there.

fontaine
01-20-2009, 02:53 AM
I don't we'll know until much later because none of the coaching staff has any clue either.

Looking at the defensive personnel and trying to figure out the scheme they fit is something Slowik couldn't figure out the past two years.

barryr
01-20-2009, 05:50 AM
An effective 3-4 won't work until a big NT and pass rushing OLB's are found. Forget everything else, if you don't have those things, your 3-4 defense won't be very good.

cmhargrove
01-20-2009, 06:04 AM
An effective 3-4 won't work until a big NT and pass rushing OLB's are found. Forget everything else, if you don't have those things, your 3-4 defense won't be very good.

I think we could make most of the same argument for fixing our 4-3.

Regardless of 4-3, or 3-4 we need a huge D-Tackle to shore up our line. Someone mentioned in a previous thread about a Jacksonville-esque 4-3 and that would be great. However, when they were really good, they had Stroud and Henderson which were both over 310 and very strong.

And as far as OLB (or SAM), we still really need help there. Boss is only good in open space, Winborn is great at the play in front of him as long as he doesn't have to use his brain. However, we need a SAM that forces the TE to stay in and block, or one that could beat an offensive Tackle with a pass rush. Thats' why we need a Suggs type player even in a 4-3.

WolfpackGuy
01-20-2009, 06:35 AM
Getting back to respectability won't happen overnight.
Fit the scheme to the personnel, not vice versa.

CEH
01-20-2009, 06:43 AM
From PFWeekly

Jan. 15, 2009 By Dan Parr

Broncos' McDaniels, Nolan prepare for 3-4 shift on defense


With Mike Nolan locked in as head coach Josh McDaniels’ defensive coordinator, the Broncos will shift completely to a 3-4 defense next season after experimenting with it in a limited capacity in 2008. Although McDaniels, the former Patriots O-coordinator, isn’t experienced in coaching defense, he plans to be heavily involved in that side of things. Sources in Denver say it won’t be a case of Nolan serving as a defensive “head coach” while McDaniels, 32, stays out of his way. There are some questions about the feasibility of a quick transition from a 4-3 to 3-4 in Denver since a massive overhaul in personnel usually is necessitated by a change in schemes. In the Broncos’ case, though, regardless of scheme, sweeping changes were necessary well before McDaniels and Nolan came to town. Denver was ranked 29th in defense last season, and sources say a rebuilding effort is overdue.

cmhargrove
01-20-2009, 06:45 AM
Getting back to respectability won't happen overnight.
Fit the scheme to the personnel, not vice versa.

Part of the point is, we need new personnel anyway. 3-4 or 4-3 is somewhat of a moot point because some of our roster needs to be purged talent-wise and production-wise.

It will be a fun couple months of free-agency/draft to see where this team is headed.

montrose
01-20-2009, 08:27 AM
A 3-4 OLB will typically weigh 240-275lbs. Their height can be anything, although a standard 3-4 OLB will typically be in the 6'2 to 6'6 range (Well, maybe a slight problem there.)

Elvis Dumervil, 5'11, 260 lbs.
James Harrison, 6'0, 242 lbs.

ludo21
01-20-2009, 08:33 AM
I wouldnt mind seeing a Doom, Larsen, DJ, draft pick... look at the LB'ers...

JJG
01-20-2009, 09:13 AM
Elvis Dumervil, 5'11, 260 lbs.
James Harrison, 6'0, 242 lbs.

James Harrison 6'0" 242
DJ Williams 6'1" 242. ? ? ?

Popps
01-20-2009, 09:41 AM
From PFWeekly

Jan. 15, 2009 By Dan Parr

Broncos' McDaniels, Nolan prepare for 3-4 shift on defense


With Mike Nolan locked in as head coach Josh McDaniels’ defensive coordinator, the Broncos will shift completely to a 3-4 defense next season after experimenting with it in a limited capacity in 2008. Although McDaniels, the former Patriots O-coordinator, isn’t experienced in coaching defense, he plans to be heavily involved in that side of things. Sources in Denver say it won’t be a case of Nolan serving as a defensive “head coach” while McDaniels, 32, stays out of his way. There are some questions about the feasibility of a quick transition from a 4-3 to 3-4 in Denver since a massive overhaul in personnel usually is necessitated by a change in schemes. In the Broncos’ case, though, regardless of scheme, sweeping changes were necessary well before McDaniels and Nolan came to town. Denver was ranked 29th in defense last season, and sources say a rebuilding effort is overdue.



"Obviously we'll have to adjust the personnel some," said Jim Goodman, who runs the Broncos' player personnel department. "(McDaniels) may want to do a hybrid type thing where he goes to a 4-3 some."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11447165

If you're looking for tells, "we'll have to adjust some" is a fairly strong clue. ("We will" sounds somewhat like a clue.)

"They may have personnel that is more suited for one scheme, but you may want to start to go toward another," McDaniels said during his news conference Monday. "There are going to have to be some decisions made in the near future with where we want to go here in the long term. We want to have a consistent scheme."


So, it all still sounds unsure. I'd expect to see a hybrid out there, but we'll know shortly. FA personnel moves will tell it all.

OABB
01-20-2009, 02:30 PM
we just hired the chargers dline coach too..... he coaches the 3-4


If the Broncos are going to learn how to play the 3-4 defense, they better get some coaches who can teach it.

Wayne Nunnely can not only coach the 3-4, he guided the vaunted defensive line of the rival San Diego Chargers for the past 12 years.

In what has to be considered an AFC West coaching coup, the Broncos signed Nunnely to a two-year contract Tuesday to become their new defensive line coach.

"It's a change that I felt I needed to do at this stage of my career," said Nunnely, 56. "I've had a great 12 years here with the Chargers through three or four different head coaches and a number of coordinators and I just felt like I needed a new challenge, a new environment."

After coaching such natural 3-4 linemen as noseguard Jamal Williams, tackle Luis Castillo and end Igor Olshansky with the Chargers in recent years, Nunnely's challenge with the Broncos will be to both find new D-line personal, and teach alternate techniques to existing players who are accustomed to playing in the 4-3 defense.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com



this should be it's own thread. I assume it is somewhere? couldn't find it. knowing this place there will be 6 threads on it shortly anyways, so I'll just post here.

good news! roids for everyone!

BroncoBuff
01-20-2009, 02:35 PM
Hmmm I don't know doesn't Ariz and Indy both run a 4-3?
And exactly when did AZ have time to work out some CFL guy?

Boldin's already P-O'd at management, and Dansby is a UFA ... so the last thing they need is to distract everybody by trying out some Canadian wannabe ???

BroncoBuff
01-20-2009, 02:38 PM
we just hired the chargers dline coach too..... he coaches the 3-4

In what has to be considered an AFC West coaching coup, the Broncos signed Nunnely to a two-year contract Tuesday to become their new defensive line coach.

Wow ... nice hire. That deserves its own thread, obb.

I guess the 3-4 is the future.

wolf754life
01-20-2009, 02:53 PM
the rev said we aren't changing, the rev is smarter than everyone on the intra nets anywasy, so ignore the chargers 3 - 4 d-line coach.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2009, 03:01 PM
the rev said we aren't changing, the rev is smarter than everyone on the intra nets anywasy, so ignore the chargers 3 - 4 d-line coach.

Knucklehead ... Rev said MAYBE we won't switch, and he laid out some decent reasons why we might not.

Just stop.

Taco John
01-20-2009, 05:21 PM
the rev said we aren't changing, the rev is smarter than everyone on the intra nets anywasy, so ignore the chargers 3 - 4 d-line coach.



Certainly the winds are blowing towards the 3-4. But Rev is right - it's going to be very difficult to field a 3-4 in one season. There's a lot that needs to happen for the 3-4 to be a viable defense for us.

Popps
01-20-2009, 06:34 PM
Certainly the winds are blowing towards the 3-4. But Rev is right - it's going to be very difficult to field a 3-4 in one season. There's a lot that needs to happen for the 3-4 to be a viable defense for us.

But as people have pointed out, we've got a collection of some of the worst 4-3 players in the league. I think we've only got a few places we could move down until we're ranked dead last.

Taco John
01-20-2009, 07:13 PM
But as people have pointed out, we've got a collection of some of the worst 4-3 players in the league. I think we've only got a few places we could move down until we're ranked dead last.


I personally think that is a bad rationalization for making an abrupt switch without the personnel to pull it off. That kind of reasoning puts players in mortal danger. This isn't Madden. Those are real people out there.

It appears the coaches are doing the right thing - they're not going to announce any such "switch" until they have the players in house to evaluate what to do from here.

Popps
01-20-2009, 07:45 PM
I personally think that is a bad rationalization for making an abrupt switch without the personnel to pull it off. That kind of reasoning puts players in mortal danger. This isn't Madden. Those are real people out there..

Well, fair enough... though I should have been a little more specific.

I DO think we have some players that could make the transition. In fact, we may have a couple players better-suited to play it.

I think Thomas/Robertson/DJ/Larson/Dumervil are all prospects.

Our CBs are set, and our entire S crew is likely turning over, anyway.

So, we'd need to add a NT... draft a 3-4 OLB, sign a 3-4 OLB, and figure out what we have between Larson and DJ as far as the inside.

Point being, we're running a horrifically bad version of the 4-3 right now.
My thoughts are... if we're GOING to make the switch, just do it. Take the pain now. Get the shot over with. Don't leave the needle in the arm for three years.

Now, you could be right. It simply may not be possible to assemble the personnel that quickly, and we may see a hybrid. That's perfectly reasonable.

But, keeping the 4-3 to accommodate our current staff is just silly, to me.
We don't have a single NFL defensive end on the roster. What's the point.

Pure speculation, but if we split Thomas/Robertson out to DE in a 3-4... how much worse could they be than the trash we lined up in our 4-3 this year?
I actually think those guys would be interesting at 3-4 DE. Both are on the light side (for 4-3 DTs) and both are very athletic.

Popps
01-20-2009, 07:49 PM
Keep the 4-3... and we need to add:

-2 impact DEs
-2 safeties

Move to the 3-4 and we need to add:
-1 NT
-1 to 2 starting LBs
-2 safeties

I just don't see a huge difference.... particularly if the eventual goal is INDEED to make the switch.

jhat01
01-20-2009, 08:04 PM
Keep the 4-3... and we need to add:

-2 impact DEs
-2 safeties

Move to the 3-4 and we need to add:
-1 NT
-1 to 2 starting LBs
-2 safeties

I just don't see a huge difference.... particularly if the eventual goal is INDEED to make the switch.

I agree. 6 in one..half dozen in the other. The talent pool is very shallow on that side of the ball for this team. Might as well get it done if that's the plan.

ludo21
01-20-2009, 08:10 PM
I agree. 6 in one..half dozen in the other. The talent pool is very shallow on that side of the ball for this team. Might as well get it done if that's the plan.

I like how you said 6 twice in two different ways. ;D

azbroncfan
01-20-2009, 08:17 PM
Keep the 4-3... and we need to add:

-2 impact DEs
-2 safeties

Move to the 3-4 and we need to add:
-1 NT
-1 to 2 starting LBs
-2 safeties

I just don't see a huge difference.... particularly if the eventual goal is INDEED to make the switch.

Not to mention this is supposed to be a weak DE class for the 4-3. Now Peppers may be had but he will still have to beat out the world beater John Engelberger.

NFLBRONCO
01-20-2009, 08:21 PM
Keep the 4-3... and we need to add:

-2 impact DEs
-2 safeties

Move to the 3-4 and we need to add:
-1 NT
-1 to 2 starting LBs
-2 safeties

I just don't see a huge difference.... particularly if the eventual goal is INDEED to make the switch.


D is really bad anyway lets just go to 3-4 stick with a PLAN and go forward. 09 will be a struggle anyways.

DBroncos4life
01-20-2009, 08:28 PM
The more and more teams that move to the 3-4 only makes it harder for teams to find good talent.

Taco John
01-20-2009, 08:32 PM
Keep the 4-3... and we need to add:

-2 impact DEs
-2 safeties

Move to the 3-4 and we need to add:
-1 NT
-1 to 2 starting LBs
-2 safeties

I just don't see a huge difference.... particularly if the eventual goal is INDEED to make the switch.


To make the switch to the 3-4, we need to add what you listed and more. There's also the rotation to consider - and that's where the real hang up is. We basically need double what you listed there.

I personally prefer the 4-3 to the 3-4, but I'm not completely against making the switch given the success the 3-4 has seen in recent times. I just personally think people are underestimating our personnel needs to make that switch. It would be much easier for us to upgrade our roster and play the 4-3 than to switch to a 3-4 by a magnatude. Like you said, we need 2 impact DE and 2 Safeties (and then shore up positions with prospects). To switch to the 3-4, we'll need a 2-3 more tackles (NT included), 3 or 4 more linebackers, and 2 safeties.

Like I say, I'm not against the switch. I just think people are underestimating what we'll need to pull it off. I don't personally think switching just because we sucked at the 4-3 last year makes for a good case because of injury concerns. Depending on what our braintrust is able to pull off, I think Rev makes a good point about not switching to the 3-4 this season. It just may be that our quickest road to improvement is with the 4-3.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens.

wolf754life
01-20-2009, 08:37 PM
taco, we agree to disagree, you and rev and guys like you don't want change, think we are a couple of players away from winning 11 and 12 games a year and yearn for the 90's again with this squad of players.

others, like popps and myself see this team as a complete rebuild on defense, and some tweaks on offense. its not about next year, its about the next 5 yrs, and you need to quit thinking like shanahan and start building something long term on the defensive side of the ball.

pain and disappointment, maybe next year or two, but lets face it, we were not winning anything big the next year or two if this defense was not rebuilt.

lets take our medicine, we will all be better off for it in the long run!

Taco John
01-20-2009, 08:50 PM
taco, we agree to disagree, you and rev and guys like you don't want change, think we are a couple of players away from winning 11 and 12 games a year and yearn for the 90's again with this squad of players.

others, like popps and myself see this team as a complete rebuild on defense, and some tweaks on offense. its not about next year, its about the next 5 yrs, and you need to quit thinking like shanahan and start building something long term on the defensive side of the ball.

pain and disappointment, maybe next year or two, but lets face it, we were not winning anything big the next year or two if this defense was not rebuilt.

lets take our medicine, we will all be better off for it in the long run!



I think you just want change for the sake of change, regardless of whether or not it's a rational decision to make. I'm not afraid to move to the 3-4 in the least. I just believe that the coaches are smarter than to just put our guys on an island. A switch to a 3-4 can't happen if we don't have the roster to pull it off.

I'm not afraid of the 3-4 at all. What I'm afraid of is not having the depth to pull it off, and being forced into a bunch of crappy "cover the gap" schemes from week to week because we had an injury or two too many, and everyone calling for Nolan's head because things aren't working. You need players to run a successful scheme.

Also, most people on this forum think that we are 2-3 years off from being a contender.

Taco John
01-20-2009, 09:06 PM
Also, I have to note how amusing it is to be told by Wolf that I'm not being patient enough to look at the big picture when he's the one trying to rush blindly into a new defensive set before even knowing if we have the personnel to pull it off.

::)

jutang
01-20-2009, 09:19 PM
Wayne Nunnely now been added to the staff. Pretty much signals that the 3-4 is coming to Denver, whether it be this offseason or next.

Taco John
01-20-2009, 09:36 PM
Wayne Nunnely now been added to the staff. Pretty much signals that the 3-4 is coming to Denver, whether it be this offseason or next.

I don't htink that there is any doubt that we're switching. I think the only doubt that exists right now is whether we can reasonably do it in one season, or whether it takes two.

theAPAOps5
01-20-2009, 09:40 PM
We are switching to the 3-4. But when you need 3 new LB's a DL rebuild because not only do ours suck at the 4-3 they suck even worse at the 3-4, and we need 2 new safeties its going to take more than 1 year to fill those holes.

See the problem is Shanahan focuses so much on Offense thinking he could patchwork the D that it eventually left our D in shambles. Couple that with reaching for mediocre talent like Moss and others it just set this defense back.

I can't wait to watch the Shanafans hate McD because he doesn't get Denver to the Super Bowl the first year. I have faith in him, he has a solid coaching group and I think he turns this around in year 2.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Certainly the winds are blowing towards the 3-4. But Rev is right - it's going to be very difficult to field a 3-4 in one season. There's a lot that needs to happen for the 3-4 to be a viable defense for us.
I disagree ... it's not some space-alien defense that requires Vulcans or Romulans to play it. We have a handful of decent and a couppla good players on defense already. I'll propose a quick depth chart adding only OJ Atogwe and a NT from the draft ... I'm not sure if I agree with SoCalBronso that Dumervil can play the Jack LB spot, or with Drek who thinks Crowder might have a shot there, but here goes:

DE: Thomas/Peterson and Ekuban/Crowder - Seems to me Thomas, Peterson and Ekuban are very well-suited to these spots - all three have the larger body + decent penetration skillz 3-4 DEs need. Ekuban was already moving inside on passing downs anyway.

NT: This is the hard part ... Robertson has experience there, but is gone b/c of bonus. We need to draft Raji or Brace, and sign a free agent. Actually very do-able.

SLB: Boss/Winborn ... not ideal starters, but they're Sam LBs already.

SILB: I keep reading this position needs to be big, smart and a sure tackler. Spencer Larsen sounds good to me.

WILB: D. J./WW

Jack OLB: Free agent // Dumervil (SoCal) // Crowder (Drek) // WW (me)

CB: Champ/Bly ... Paymah/JMFW/Shaw backups

S: FA Atogwe or Phillips, Barrett SS, McRee for depth


Soo... a Jack LB in free agency; 2 NTs- one draft, one FA; and a young, ballhawking free safety in free agency.

We can't get much worse.

Football is not applied physics, some of these guys can play.

nickademus
01-20-2009, 11:03 PM
[QUOTE=Popps;2260720]Keep the 4-3... and we need to add:

-2 impact DEs
-2 safeties

This is short by an MLB and a SAM not to mention a big DT to allow either Thomas or Robertson to be the true Ut and make a freaking difference. People act like we are so close to a good 4-3 D it makes me sick by my count we need 6 new starters for a good 4-3 and that is if Champ is healthy we still need people for a 3-4 maybe even 6-7 new starters but hell who gives a crap when you are ranked 29th and your best d-player is on the wrong side of 30?

BroncoBuff
01-20-2009, 11:28 PM
Move to the 3-4 and we need to add:
-1 NT
-1 to 2 starting LBs
-2 safeties.
We basically agree ... but I would swap needing 1 and 2 guys between safeties and NTs:

At safety, I like Josh Barrett to start, we just need a veteran free safety with ball skillz ... McRee and Rogers or a rookie or even Manual can back up.

At NT, with Robertson out because of that bonus, and Marcus Thomas and Kenny Peterson both moving to DE, we'll need two or maybe three NTs.