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View Full Version : Getting production from hard working John Engelberger and the lunch pail


azbroncfan
01-18-2009, 04:03 PM
John Engelberger is clearly the worst starting DE in football by far. They guy played alot for the whole year and got a coverage sack due to the fact that Rivers is as slow as Griese and was tackled a half a yard short in a mad scramble for the first down. Any 5.0 40 qb would of picked up 5 yards yet JE gets over his over under total of the year by getting over .5 sacks. In fact the guy has 3 sacks in 4 years in Denver and whoever in SF coached 6 sacks out of this guy needs to be in the hall of fame. Bottomline is the guy is EASILY blocked consistently with one guy and sucks at run defense and ____ rushing the qb. You can't even use the word ____ rush and Engelberger in the same sentence. The only thing he does well is make good reads he just lacks the ability to beat his man and make plays. The homer defense around here is Denver needs a hard working lunch pail type like JE. Well with the state of the economy lets help JE put his hard work to use and pack that lunch pail and take the garbage out.

Who are you going to put in John's lunch pail and let him use his blood, sweat and tears and pack out of town with all his hard work.

Dwayne Robertson-You cost way too much for the production. You don't really fit the system and now way in h&!! are you worth double digit millions not to mention when is your knee going to implode permanently.

Boss Bailey-Great athlete who makes few plays and gets hurt on the first play of the year. No kidding first defensive play of preseason your on the ground hurt and out over a month. Too little production for your cost and you don't fit the rumored 3-4. Hop in the pail now.

Webster-it's been beat to death already but on the two Denver D's you started on they were some of the worst in the franchises history.

Shaw-your an ex Raider and not very good to boot. Bye bye hop in the pail since were do you fit in the new system?

Niko-You couldn't beat out Webster or a starting FB, need I say more plus you make more money than just a decent special teamer should. Somewhere Charles Barkley is also bitching because there is also someone more qualified than you for your roster spot.

Mcree, Manual, and Lowry-You guys suck so bad you couldn't beat each other out. No explaination needed get on John's back.

Ramsey-You make more money than most backups and there will be several available at 25 percent the price. Bottomline is Denver has no chance if you play so you might as well take a 7th round flyer and see what happens instead of 2 mil a year you waste. Use some of your money and buy John a loader since he is going to need it.

N. Jackson-By tired of wasting a spot on an average TE that can't play more than 30 plays a year without the letters I and R coming up. Give John a hand but don't get hurt in the process, where your mangina.

Chad Jackson-I say give you a chance but since our new coach is an ex patriot hop in because I'm sure he knows what you bring.

Selvin Young/Andre Hall-Get in the pail without pulling a hammy or breaking some bone because we all know you couldn't break a tackle. Tired of wasting carries on you.

I thought about throwing Crowder and Clemons in but I'll let the new staff decide. Can anyone think of anyone else that should go in John's pail? Feel free to add on.

John now I'm sure your a great guy and we all know you are a hard working, lunch pail guy but be careful with that heavy load. You can do it just keep working hard. I'm sorry you don't fit the new system and Denver was going to trade you to a system that fit you but there is no system that you fit in. So here I give you a job and all the bronco fans all over the world will be happy and vote you in the ring of fame with this deed and all your hard work.

Thanks John!

_Oro_
01-18-2009, 04:12 PM
How about DJ Williams for making all the stats when they don't count. Not to
mention coming in for the most important game of the year and playing at 50%.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2009, 04:15 PM
Chad Jackson-I say give you a chance but since our new coach is an ex patriot hop in because I'm sure he knows what you bring.
Well, I agree with this much ... the puzzle of Chad Jackson has already been solved by our new head coach. We'll know soon enough if "Chad the Reclamation Project" has a future in this league.

Gcver2ver3
01-18-2009, 04:15 PM
John Engelberger is clearly the worst starting DE in football by far. They guy played alot for the whole year and got a coverage sack due to the fact that Rivers is as slow as Griese and was tackled a half a yard short in a mad scramble for the first down. Any 5.0 40 qb would of picked up 5 yards yet JE gets over his over under total of the year by getting over .5 sacks. In fact the guy has 3 sacks in 4 years in Denver and whoever in SF coached 6 sacks out of this guy needs to be in the hall of fame. Bottomline is the guy is EASILY blocked consistently with one guy and sucks at run defense and ____ rushing the qb. You can't even use the word ____ rush and Engelberger in the same sentence. The only thing he does well is make good reads he just lacks the ability to beat his man and make plays. The homer defense around here is Denver needs a hard working lunch pail type like JE. Well with the state of the economy lets help JE put his hard work to use and pack that lunch pail and take the garbage out.

Who are you going to put in John's lunch pail and let him use his blood, sweat and tears and pack out of town with all his hard work.

Dwayne Robertson-You cost way too much for the production. You don't really fit the system and now way in h&!! are you worth double digit millions not to mention when is your knee going to implode permanently.

Boss Bailey-Great athlete who makes few plays and gets hurt on the first play of the year. No kidding first defensive play of preseason your on the ground hurt and out over a month. Too little production for your cost and you don't fit the rumored 3-4. Hop in the pail now.

Webster-it's been beat to death already but on the two Denver D's you started on they were some of the worst in the franchises history.

Shaw-your an ex Raider and not very good to boot. Bye bye hop in the pail since were do you fit in the new system?

Niko-You couldn't beat out Webster or a starting FB, need I say more plus you make more money than just a decent special teamer should. Somewhere Charles Barkley is also b****ing because there is also someone more qualified than you for your roster spot.

Mcree, Manual, and Lowry-You guys suck so bad you couldn't beat each other out. No explaination needed get on John's back.

Ramsey-You make more money than most backups and there will be several available at 25 percent the price. Bottomline is Denver has no chance if you play so you might as well take a 7th round flyer and see what happens instead of 2 mil a year you waste. Use some of your money and buy John a loader since he is going to need it.

N. Jackson-By tired of wasting a spot on an average TE that can't play more than 30 plays a year without the letters I and R coming up. Give John a hand but don't get hurt in the process, where your mangina.

Chad Jackson-I say give you a chance but since our new coach is an ex patriot hop in because I'm sure he knows what you bring.

Selvin Young/Andre Hall-Get in the pail without pulling a hammy or breaking some bone because we all know you couldn't break a tackle. Tired of wasting carries on you.

I thought about throwing Crowder and Clemons in but I'll let the new staff decide. Can anyone think of anyone else that should go in John's pail? Feel free to add on.

John now I'm sure your a great guy and we all know you are a hard working, lunch pail guy but be careful with that heavy load. You can do it just keep working hard. I'm sorry you don't fit the new system and Denver was going to trade you to a system that fit you but there is no system that you fit in. So here I give you a job and all the bronco fans all over the world will be happy and vote you in the ring of fame with this deed and all your hard work.

Thanks John!

spot on AZ...

i look forward to every one of those guys catching their walking papers...

the only one i'd consider keeping is chad jackson (like you said) but if Mickey D says get rid of him then i'm all for that too...

Popps
01-18-2009, 04:16 PM
Benching Englberger?

I won't hear it!!!

Gcver2ver3
01-18-2009, 04:17 PM
some may disagree but i'd like Michael Pittman to get in the pail...

Gcver2ver3
01-18-2009, 04:18 PM
Benching Englberger?

I won't hear it!!!

me neither!...

cut em...

(Jae)
01-18-2009, 04:26 PM
some may disagree but i'd like Michael Pittman to get in the pail...
Why? there's only 2 Rb's who did anything this year worth a damn. He was one.

ludo21
01-18-2009, 04:28 PM
Mustard - Stay the Hell off the roster, stop coming back!!

sorry Dortoh....;D

Rock Chalk
01-18-2009, 04:28 PM
Right up until you bad mouth Selvin Young.

You are an idiot. This guy averaged almost 5 ypc without having ONE SINGLE ****ING RUN OF 20+ yards.

Breaking tackles? You obviously didnt watch a single game. Before he ****ed his Hammy up, Selvin Young was averagin nearly 5 ypc and RARELY got a 10+ yard carry AND he was given the ball in some OBVIOUS run play sitatuations. While those were not success (3rd and long from the 1 ****ing yard line he still didnt get a safety despite the fact that he was hit 4 yards deep in the end zone).

I hate people that dont watch the games. Its one of two types of runners in Denver according to the OM logic of idiocy.

The scat back who gets 1, 2, 30, 1, 0, -3 yards

Or the guy that cant break off the home run threat.

Its ****ing retarded assumptions by a retarded message board full of retarded people.

Popps
01-18-2009, 04:34 PM
Like Selvin Young or not (and I don't)... I have a feeling the conversation won't need to go on past this off-season. Hillis is going to get looks as a starter, and I'd be very surprised if the new head coach/OC didn't want to put their stamp on this offense by drafting their own RB to compete.

ludo21
01-18-2009, 04:35 PM
Actually in 07, 200 of Selvins 729 yards were on runs of 20/40+ yard gains...

Thats a good chunk of yards on those long runs..

chickennob2
01-18-2009, 04:37 PM
Well I think Clemons size is pretty prototypical for a 3-4, so I'd like to see him stay. Also niko might be better off in the 3-4 where he has less space to work with

Popps
01-18-2009, 04:39 PM
Actually in 07, 200 of Selvins 729 yards were on runs of 20/40+ yard gains...

Thats a good chunk of yards on those long runs..

He can't stay on the field, and when he was healthy, Shanahan didn't seem all that interested in him, whatever that's worth.

Anyway, as I said... there's a good chance he's not a topic of conversation by next season.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2009, 04:44 PM
Like Selvin Young or not (and I don't)...
Who do you like? Other than Champ and Cutler ... ???


I agree with Alec, sans the anger ... Selvin is definitely a keeper.

ludo21
01-18-2009, 04:45 PM
He can't stay on the field, and when he was healthy, Shanahan didn't seem all that interested in him, whatever that's worth.

Anyway, as I said... there's a good chance he's not a topic of conversation by next season.

im fine with that.

Im hoping our backfield consists of: Hillis, Alridge, Torain, 2nd day pick

snowspot66
01-18-2009, 04:52 PM
I will be a happy man when Engleberger, Young, Bell, and Hall are no longer on our team in any capacity. Commitment to mediocrity those four are.

Garcia Bronco
01-18-2009, 04:54 PM
I agree with Alec.

Br0nc0Buster
01-18-2009, 05:13 PM
You are an idiot. This guy averaged almost 5 ypc without having ONE SINGLE ****ING RUN OF 20+ yards.


Nope, he had like a 50 yarder against San Diego in week 2.
It was off a draw I think on third and long

Br0nc0Buster
01-18-2009, 05:22 PM
In fact Selving Young had 303 yards on 61 carries, which was a 5.0 average.

If you take away his 49 yarder, which was his longest run on a draw on third and long, that gives him 254 yards on 60 carries.
Which is 4.23 average.

Selvin is nothing special, he is at best a back up and change of pace back.
Hillis, Torrain, and a rookie should be the way to go.

TheReverend
01-18-2009, 05:25 PM
Right up until you bad mouth Selvin Young.

You are an idiot. This guy averaged almost 5 ypc without having ONE SINGLE ****ING RUN OF 20+ yards.

Breaking tackles? You obviously didnt watch a single game. Before he ****ed his Hammy up, Selvin Young was averagin nearly 5 ypc and RARELY got a 10+ yard carry AND he was given the ball in some OBVIOUS run play sitatuations. While those were not success (3rd and long from the 1 ****ing yard line he still didnt get a safety despite the fact that he was hit 4 yards deep in the end zone).

I hate people that dont watch the games. Its one of two types of runners in Denver according to the OM logic of idiocy.

The scat back who gets 1, 2, 30, 1, 0, -3 yards

Or the guy that cant break off the home run threat.

Its ****ing retarded assumptions by a retarded message board full of retarded people.

Going back and re-watching the early games, Selvin was a lot more successful than I remembered. Our RB injuries MAY have forced his return to action sooner than was truly prudent, so I'll wash some of his god awful second half carries.

However, the offense did look better under Hillis and Pittman. Selvin will stick until TC and prove whether he deserves another shot or not.

footstepsfrom#27
01-18-2009, 06:59 PM
Forget about who needs to go, the better question is who deserves to stay?

On the current D only Champ, DJ, Woodyard and Larsen are locks and Bly should get some consideration. However I think Champ's value is higher as trade bait for draft picks at this point because by the time we rebuild he's not the same player he is now. Moss and Elvis are possibles too but the bottom line is we need help everywhere.

Somebody said it earlier...we just need a defense.

Killericon
01-18-2009, 07:03 PM
Well, I agree with this much ... the puzzle of Chad Jackson has already been solved by our new head coach. We'll know soon enough if "Chad the Reclamation Project" has a future in this league.

Well, remember that the Pats got rid of him, so they could'nt have been THAT enamored with him.

SoCalBronco
01-18-2009, 07:03 PM
Perhaps your anger should instead be directed at the two young well paid high picks who can't beat John out.

It's not his fault that they can't beat him out, is it?

Where's the threads calling out Moss and Crowder?

Come on. I'm waiting for it.

BroncoBuff
01-18-2009, 07:08 PM
Well, remember that the Pats got rid of him, so they could'nt have been THAT enamored with him.Well, he was getting 2nd-round money, and Moss and Welker were monopolizing play there .... plus, for some reason he was not eligible for the practice squad. It would not be a huge surprise to see Chad blossom as a slot guy here and take over for Stokley in a couple years ... supposedly he's studying the slot position.

Does anybody know Chad's problem? He's clearly an intelligent guy based on an interview I heard. ???


And along these lines, nobody has ever answered my oft-repeated question: WTF happened to Hamza Abdullah? He went from a starter and emerging star to WAIVER WIRE, in 2 seconds flat ???

montrose
01-18-2009, 07:18 PM
Defensively, I want as many guys that don't fit Nolan's scheme out of here. I'd rather watch draft picks who are natural 3-4 guys play than try converting all of our current garbage. I say keep Champ, DJ and Dre and deal the rest for whatever you can.

Inkana7
01-18-2009, 07:20 PM
Slevin's terrible. He was much better his Rookie year, and I expected good things this year. But he was terrible. Worse than 06 Tatum Bell.

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2009, 07:23 PM
Engleberger is another player hampered more by the scheme and coaching than his own talent.

azbroncfan
01-18-2009, 07:41 PM
Engleberger is another player hampered more by the scheme and coaching than his own talent.

Ultimate homer post of the year. Engleberger is hampered by talent period. He is smart enough to play but doesn't have the ability to beat less experienced/smart players. :rofl: :rofl:

azbroncfan
01-18-2009, 07:45 PM
Perhaps your anger should instead be directed at the two young well paid high picks who can't beat John out.

It's not his fault that they can't beat him out, is it?

Where's the threads calling out Moss and Crowder?

Come on. I'm waiting for it.

I'm considering Crowder in the pail but I think he is worthy of TC then will mostlikely be cut. Moss has been a superunderachiever to but will have a new position which I have my doubts on his effectiveness because he has shown little in pass rush department and coverage isn't his strong suit. Hell I'd throw your boy DJ in other than his expensive contract and I'd rather trade him for a draft pick. Guys who can draw a draft pick don't go in the lunch pail.

socalorado
01-18-2009, 07:51 PM
Ultimate homer post of the year. Engleberger is hampered by talent period. He is smart enough to play but doesn't have the ability to beat less experienced/smart players. :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl:
This has been happening alot around here.

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2009, 08:18 PM
Ultimate homer post of the year. Engleberger is hampered by talent period. He is smart enough to play but doesn't have the ability to beat less experienced/smart players. :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry AZ, that simply isn't true and it's another classical emotional based post, rather than one based on truth and analysis.

Engleberger was the 4th pick (35th overall) of the 2000 draft. Players with "no talent" don't get picked that high. Then look at what he did with the 49er's.

2000: 3 sacks
2001: 4 sacks
2002: 0 sacks (no starts, barely played. Think this is a year when they ran the 3-4)
2003: 4.5 sacks
2004: 6 sacks

Those certainly aren't horrible from a strongside DE, and certainly nowhere near the "worst in the league" by any stretch of the imagination. Also keep in mind that the 49ers were pretty happy with his play and only unloaded him to us because they were converting to the 3-4.

And then, anyone remember how well Engleberger was playing in the 2005 preseason? He had a great game against the Colts (same game D-Will really came on in) and played well throughout the rest of the preseason, but was a backup because we had Courtney Brown and Ekuban as starters that year. He was also a backup in 2006.

Now while I agree that he should be a backup, this idea that he is the worst in the league is nothing but absurd. This guy didn't just come to Denver and forget how to play football, but rather he's another product of an idiotic DC that had two UTs starting, the D-Line in a 4 point stance and got no significant improvement out of players like Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder.

azbroncfan
01-18-2009, 08:29 PM
Sorry AZ, that simply isn't true and it's another classical emotional based post, rather than one based on truth and analysis.

Engleberger was the 4th pick (35th overall) of the 2000 draft. Players with "no talent" don't get picked that high. Then look at what he did with the 49er's.

2000: 3 sacks
2001: 4 sacks
2002: 0 sacks (no starts, barely played. Think this is a year when they ran the 3-4)
2003: 4.5 sacks
2004: 6 sacks

Those certainly aren't horrible from a strongside DE, and certainly nowhere near the "worst in the league" by any stretch of the imagination. Also keep in mind that the 49ers were pretty happy with his play and only unloaded him to us because they were converting to the 3-4.

And then, anyone remember how well Engleberger was playing in the 2005 preseason? He had a great game against the Colts (same game D-Will really came on in) and played well throughout the rest of the preseason, but was a backup because we had Courtney Brown and Ekuban as starters that year. He was also a backup in 2006.

Now while I agree that he should be a backup, this idea that he is the worst in the league is nothing but absurd. This guy didn't just come to Denver and forget how to play football, but rather he's another product of an idiotic DC that had two UTs starting, the D-Line in a 4 point stance and got no significant improvement out of players like Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder.


Man you are sounding more and more like your arch rival Bob by just spitting out stats. Love how you pull stats from 4 years ago to defend the worst starting DE in the league. Name a DE that is worse than him? How many OT's did you see him beat in a pass rush situation where he could just explode and use his talent? He made the league on his smarts not his athletic ability as he already had peaked in college.

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2009, 08:40 PM
Man you are sounding more and more like your arch rival Bob by just spitting out stats. Love how you pull stats from 4 years ago to defend the worst starting DE in the league. Name a DE that is worse than him? How many OT's did you see him beat in a pass rush situation where he could just explode and use his talent? He made the league on his smarts not his athletic ability as he already had peaked in college.

Nice spin there AZ. Maybe I should follow your lead more and provide detailed breakdowns of a player's performance.



....oh, wait. You've never done that.


True to form, you have nothing substantial to offer, just a bunch of "He's sucks! He's the worst in the league!" Funny how you have no answer for the fact that Engleberger was a very high 2nd round pick, consistent starter with the 49ers and put up decent sack totals until coming to Denver.

How come you didn't address the fact that Engleberger is just one of many D-linemen that have underachieved in Denver. Jarvis Moss has been a major underachiever and Crowder made some plays on pure talent in 07 but not much else. Ekuban and Robertson also didn't perform as well as they had with their previous teams, and Ekuban came to Denver the same year Engleberger did.

I'm sure all those players suck, right AZ? Yeah, I'm sure the Denver Broncos just couldn't pick a decent D-linemen in all that time. I'm sure that it has nothing to do with the fact that Jacob Burney yells at the players but never actually teaches them anything, right AZ? Of course maybe San Fran has the same issue right?

Maybe you should go back to Remedial Football 101 before you come here and try to tell people that one of our players in the worst in the league at his position.

Oh and how about the fact that Mediator and Wabbit, both of whom are extremely knowledgeable about football and close to the team, have commented on Engleberger's worth to the team and how he is valued by the coaches. I'm sure you are much smarter than them and the coaches, right?

azbroncfan
01-18-2009, 08:50 PM
Funny how you have no answer for the fact that Engleberger was a very high 2nd round pick, consistent starter with the 49ers and put up decent sack totals until coming to Denver.


You always get stuck on where a player was drafted. It doesn't really matter when it comes down to it. All is that proves is how big of a homer you are by defending John Engelberger who was absolutely horrible last year and everyyear he has been in Denver. I will state again the reason he plays is because he is SMART and can make the right reads. He makes the least mental mistakes and blown assignments on the DL which isn't saying much. He just lacks the TALENT and PHYSICAL ability to beat his man or make a play when he is in there. As far as the other linemen go Moss and Crowder haven't even been as good as Engelberger which doesn't mean he is good it means they plain have been dissappointments. Both of them have lived up to their draft downsides as Moss had biggest bust potential and Crowder was feared to already peaked and to be soft. Never said anything about EE as he was the best DE that Denver had all year against the pass and run. Now go ahead spit out some stat since that is your favorite thing to do.

Florida_Bronco
01-18-2009, 09:08 PM
You always get stuck on where a player was drafted. There is your third false statement today. Where a player selected is generally a good reflection a player's physical talent. Sure, you have some players that will rise and fall based on things outside of physical talent, but it's safe to say that someone drafted that high (35th pick) either has good talent or one helluva overachiever.

It doesn't really matter when it comes down to it. All is that proves is how big of a homer you are by defending John Engelberger who was absolutely horrible last year and everyyear he has been in Denver. EVERY defensive end we had last year was near horrible. Like I said (and this is a fact you refuse to address) it had far more to do with Slowick's idiotic scheme and Burney's poor coaching than the players themselves.


he is SMART and can make the right reads. He makes the least mental mistakes and blown assignments on the DL which isn't saying much. Well at least we can agree on that!

He just lacks the TALENT and PHYSICAL ability to beat his man or make a play when he is in there. Bull feces, AZ. The guy didn't turn into a starter with two teams because he is a no talent hack.

Both of them have lived up to their draft downsides as Moss had biggest bust potential and Crowder was feared to already peaked and to be soft. How shocking that this happened under a coach who doesn't coach! Moss was easily the 2nd most physically talented DE of that draft and Crowder is a prototype LDE, yet they have both done virtually nothing! Do you think that is because they can't get the job done, or do you think it has something to do with the fact that they haven't been taught (by their own words no less) any moves other than a bullrush?!?

Never said anything about EE as he was the best DE that Denver had all year against the pass and run. And even he has not performed up to the level he did in Dallas!

Now go ahead spit out some stat since that is your favorite thing to do.

I got a better idea AZ. Why don't you explain to me why we have not developed a single defensive line prospect under Jacob Burney. The only decent players we have had on D-line have either been on the team before (Pryce, Hayward, Berry) came from other teams (Engleberger, Brown, Ekuban, Lang, Warren) or were remarkable technicians coming out of college (Dumervil).

I'm sure you'll just dance right around that (again) though.

Play2win
01-18-2009, 09:16 PM
man posting has really gone down hill on these boards...

Atwater His Ass
01-19-2009, 01:55 AM
man posting has really gone down hill on these boards...

^

Exhibit A.

Taco John
01-19-2009, 02:26 AM
man posting has really gone down hill on these boards...

I personally think this thread makes for a great read. There are a lot of varying takes in it, with just about everyone making a good case for their point of view.

I'm noticing these days that the people criticizing the discussion are the ones who are adding the least to it.

Taco John
01-19-2009, 02:33 AM
You always get stuck on where a player was drafted. It doesn't really matter when it comes down to it.



I have to disagree with this statement. It's completely legitimate to look at where a player is drafted and get a generalized perspective of how talented the guy was percieved coming out of college. It's not a perfect tool, but as a qualitative one, it certainly has value. I don't think FB was "stuck" on it. He used it pretty well as a limited look at how well he graded out according to the talent evaluators that drafted him.

WolfpackGuy
01-19-2009, 06:00 AM
They traded Willie Middlebrooks straight up for Engleberger.
Nuff said.

Orange_Beard
01-19-2009, 06:17 AM
Yeah, fire everyone.

Kill'em all and let god separate them.

Garcia Bronco
01-19-2009, 06:38 AM
Ultimate homer post of the year. Engleberger is hampered by talent period. He is smart enough to play but doesn't have the ability to beat less experienced/smart players. :rofl: :rofl:

The would mean a bunch if you actually knew what you were talking about.

baja
01-19-2009, 06:39 AM
Well, he was getting 2nd-round money, and Moss and Welker were monopolizing play there .... plus, for some reason he was not eligible for the practice squad. It would not be a huge surprise to see Chad blossom as a slot guy here and take over for Stokley in a couple years ... supposedly he's studying the slot position.

Does anybody know Chad's problem? He's clearly an intelligent guy based on an interview I heard. ???


<b>And along these lines, nobody has ever answered my oft-repeated question: WTF happened to Hamza Abdullah? He went from a starter and emerging star to WAIVER WIRE, in 2 seconds flat ???

I have been wondering the same thing.

Kaylore
01-19-2009, 06:55 AM
Does anyone else think AZBroncofan looks like this when he posts?

http://nichite.com/images/frown.JPG

footstepsfrom#27
01-19-2009, 07:03 AM
man posting has really gone down hill on these boards...
I hope you're not just now noticing that.

Florida_Bronco
01-19-2009, 08:00 AM
I have to disagree with this statement. It's completely legitimate to look at where a player is drafted and get a generalized perspective of how talented the guy was percieved coming out of college. It's not a perfect tool, but as a qualitative one, it certainly has value. I don't think FB was "stuck" on it. He used it pretty well as a limited look at how well he graded out according to the talent evaluators that drafted him.

Thanks TJ. ^5

2KBack
01-19-2009, 08:57 AM
I've lost all...as in 100%...of any faith I might have had in the Defensive staffs ability to recognize and use talent properly. I honestly believe that this defense might have a good portion of talent, and we would never know it. I say everyone stays and have these guys fight it out under the eyes of a staff that knows what the hell they're doing. Don't drop guys because of a potential new scheme (we've seen this fail before), we need to figure out what we actually have on this team and use it to it's full potential. That might actually be a possibility now. The last few years might as well me stricken from the evaluation record due to the sheer ineptitude of the staff.

Dudeskey
01-19-2009, 09:05 AM
Defensively, I want as many guys that don't fit Nolan's scheme out of here. I'd rather watch draft picks who are natural 3-4 guys play than try converting all of our current garbage. I say keep Champ, DJ and Dre and deal the rest for whatever you can.

Agreed...

2KBack
01-19-2009, 09:25 AM
Defensively, I want as many guys that don't fit Nolan's scheme out of here. I'd rather watch draft picks who are natural 3-4 guys play than try converting all of our current garbage. I say keep Champ, DJ and Dre and deal the rest for whatever you can.

that worked great for Bates. How many times does it have to be said? You tailor your scheme to your talent, not the other way around.

~Crash~
01-19-2009, 12:37 PM
Defensively, I want as many guys that don't fit Nolan's scheme out of here. I'd rather watch draft picks who are natural 3-4 guys play than try converting all of our current garbage. I say keep Champ, DJ and Dre and deal the rest for whatever you can.


Great take until you got to the keep part . I want Nolan to say who fits his scheme and if that means cutting Champ, DJ and Dre and deal the rest for whatever you canwould of been In my way of think don't strap the New DC with anyone if he thinks they will not work .

Kaylore
01-19-2009, 01:05 PM
that worked great for Bates. How many times does it have to be said? You tailor your scheme to your talent, not the other way around.

But what if you suck so bad it doesn't matter? I think a lot of people look at our team and think "might as well blow the thing up and start from scratch. How much worse could it get?" In those instances building toward your preferred scheme isn't that off the wall.

azbroncfan
01-19-2009, 04:31 PM
Right up until you bad mouth Selvin Young.

You are an idiot. This guy averaged almost 5 ypc without having ONE SINGLE ****ING RUN OF 20+ yards.

Breaking tackles? You obviously didnt watch a single game. Before he ****ed his Hammy up, Selvin Young was averagin nearly 5 ypc and RARELY got a 10+ yard carry AND he was given the ball in some OBVIOUS run play sitatuations. While those were not success (3rd and long from the 1 ****ing yard line he still didnt get a safety despite the fact that he was hit 4 yards deep in the end zone).

I hate people that dont watch the games. Its one of two types of runners in Denver according to the OM logic of idiocy.

The scat back who gets 1, 2, 30, 1, 0, -3 yards

Or the guy that cant break off the home run threat.

Its ****ing retarded assumptions by a retarded message board full of retarded people.

Well you just proved you don't watch the games. Go look at Selvins game logs and take out his one longest run by him(not usually a super long one) and he averages under 3 yards a carry. Take away his 49, 19, 18 yd run and he averages 3.7 yds a carry. Plus he can't stay healthy. Young is the definition of a scat back. Pot calling kettle black isn't it.

azbroncfan
01-19-2009, 05:15 PM
I got a better idea AZ. Why don't you explain to me why we have not developed a single defensive line prospect under Jacob Burney. The only decent players we have had on D-line have either been on the team before (Pryce, Hayward, Berry) came from other teams (Engleberger, Brown, Ekuban, Lang, Warren) or were remarkable technicians coming out of college (Dumervil).

I'm sure you'll just dance right around that (again) though.

Burney came in 2002. Berry was picked up in 2001 but didn't play much until 2002. Now obviously Burney hasn't been much of a coach but Berry had a good year with 6.5 sacks Burney's first year and 11.5 in his second year here which landed him 25 million dollars. Hayward didn't do much until his third year. Now while Burney isn't a good coach and there hasn't been crap developed by him outside of those two and his GM failed him in getting some impact players. His HC/DC's failed the Defensive line in seeing how bad of a coach he is and didn't replace him if all he does is scream and yell. The only player that left Denver a bum and at least can make a team is Nick Eason. If it was just poor coaching as the only problem or scheme wouldn't they catch on somewhere else? Moss and Crowder the jury is still out on but it doesn't look good. Moss was supposed to be raw but be able to beat guys with his speed. His 4 pt stance hasn't helped but that is a Bates/Slowik techinque and Moss didn't show much. Now if he is moved to OLB in the 3-4 then we will have to wait and see how he does. Hopefully it is good. Crowder has been exactly as the warning label on him was, not physical and may have been at peak in college. The DL needs a serious talent infusion to fit the sytem they are trying to run instead of drafting a player that is rated higher but doesn't fit the system. The defensive line troubles have been since Denver refused to draft players high for the defensive line and buy a year or two more out of retreads. That goes on the GM. With that Engelberger is a decent special teams player for a DL and marginal as a DE in the NFL. I still can't think of a worse starting DE than him which there might actually be but he is not a good player.

Florida_Bronco
01-19-2009, 05:49 PM
Well you just proved you don't watch the games. Go look at Selvins game logs and take out his one longest run by him(not usually a super long one) and he averages under 3 yards a carry. Take away his 49, 19, 18 yd run and he averages 3.7 yds a carry. Plus he can't stay healthy. Young is the definition of a scat back. Pot calling kettle black isn't it.

Guess what AZ, in the real world you don't take away those long runs.

Young is not fast enough to be a scat back, but he could very well turn into a Vaughn Hebron/Derek Loville type backup for us.

2KBack
01-19-2009, 06:08 PM
But what if you suck so bad it doesn't matter? I think a lot of people look at our team and think "might as well blow the thing up and start from scratch. How much worse could it get?" In those instances building toward your preferred scheme isn't that off the wall.

I don't have a problem with building, but I do have a problem with blowing it all up. You don't just throw away resources that might have some value to the team just because you can;t squeeze them into a specific scheme.

Though I doubt I have to worry. Nolan is smart enough to use the assets we do have properly while building to something else if he so wants.

Florida_Bronco
01-19-2009, 06:08 PM
Burney came in 2002. Berry was picked up in 2001 but didn't play much until 2002. Actually no, he did play quite often in 2001 and when he did he was getting good pressure. I remember this specifically because he only got 2 sacks on the year but the team site ran a story where another player jokingly referred to him as "a sack specialist without alot of sacks."

Now obviously Burney hasn't been much of a coach but Berry had a good year with 6.5 sacks Burney's first year and 11.5 in his second year here which landed him 25 million dollars. He also exhibited those pass rushing skills in 1998 when he had 4 sacks as a LB for the Colts. He knew how to rush the passer before we got him.

Hayward didn't do much until his third year. Wrong again, AZ. Hayward was injured much of his rookie year and only started two games. In one of those starts, he had 3 sacks.

Now while Burney isn't a good coach and there hasn't been crap developed by him outside of those two and his GM failed him in getting some impact players. That's the thing AZ, we haven't developed a single player with Burney on the team. Who's to say that he hasn't been the reason we've sucked at that?

With all the players we brought in on the defensive line, the law of averages would almost require that 1 or 2 of them would pan out. That hasn't happened outside of Dumervil and in 2008 the DT's actually showed some improvement because they were coached by Bill Johnson.

Burney is the common denominator.

His HC/DC's failed the Defensive line in seeing how bad of a coach he is and didn't replace him if all he does is scream and yell. EXACTLY! Burney should have been gone a long time ago.

The only player that left Denver a bum and at least can make a team is Nick Eason. Might that have something to do with the fact that they spent the most crucial years of their development with almost no coaching and/or went to another poorly coached team (ala Clint Mitchell)

If it was just poor coaching as the only problem or scheme wouldn't they catch on somewhere else? Not always.

Moss and Crowder the jury is still out on but it doesn't look good. Of course not. They were coached by Jacob friggin Burney.

Moss was supposed to be raw but be able to beat guys with his speed. His 4 pt stance hasn't helped but that is a Bates/Slowik techinque and Moss didn't show much. The 4 point stance is Slowik's doing after we were getting gashed in the running game. It negates Moss's natural talent completely.

Now if he is moved to OLB in the 3-4 then we will have to wait and see how he does. Hopefully it is good. Hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. 2 years of horrid coaching and now they might move him to a position he's never played before.

Crowder has been exactly as the warning label on him was, not physical and may have been at peak in college. You have some verifiable sources saying lack of physicality was his problem? I don't remember that at all, and it comes completely against the role of a prototypical LDE.

Aftermath
01-19-2009, 11:26 PM
DRE BLY get in the pail, your not even worth a 7th rounder

Don Flamenco
01-20-2009, 01:48 AM
I hate people that dont watch the games. Its one of two types of runners in Denver according to the OM logic of idiocy.

The scat back who gets 1, 2, 30, 1, 0, -3 yards

Or the guy that cant break off the home run threat.

Its ****ing retarded assumptions by a retarded message board full of retarded people.


Yeah, but that guy carried Ray Lewis on his back for 10 yards!

Florida_Bronco
01-20-2009, 09:47 AM
Yeah, but that guy carried Ray Lewis on his back for 10 yards!

That was Tatum Bell.

Kaylore
01-20-2009, 10:42 AM
That was Tatum Bell.

This is a myth. Tom Nalen was pushing Tatum with Ray Lewis on his back. Tatum would never have been able to that without Nalen.

vancejohnson82
01-20-2009, 11:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY_AGmAiBgg&feature=related

Florida_Bronco
01-20-2009, 11:43 AM
This is a myth. Tom Nalen was pushing Tatum with Ray Lewis on his back. Tatum would never have been able to that without Nalen.

I can't tell if you're joking or not. Ha!

Kaylore
01-20-2009, 11:48 AM
I can't tell if you're joking or not. Ha!

:haw!:

azbroncfan
02-21-2009, 09:30 AM
Well looks like McD agreed that most of those guys belong in the pail. It didn't take him long to realize Engelberger didn't bring much to the field.

Florida_Bronco
02-21-2009, 10:54 AM
Well looks like McD agreed that most of those guys belong in the pail. It didn't take him long to realize Engelberger didn't bring much to the field.

Yeah, no one saw that coming when we hired the same DC that traded Engleberger to us because he didn't fit the 3-4. ::)

azbroncfan
10-08-2009, 03:50 PM
The would mean a bunch if you actually knew what you were talking about.

Well everyone I listed the new Front Office agreed. Your boy Engelberger was so full of talent he didn't get invited to a training camp anywhere.

rovolution
10-08-2009, 03:53 PM
Engleberger is another player hampered more by the scheme and coaching than his own talent.

Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!

DENVERDUI55
03-20-2012, 07:13 PM
Funny stuff in here. Wow that D was horrible. Shanny deserved to be fired for fielding that crap.

WolfpackGuy
03-20-2012, 07:32 PM
Ha, this was back before that moron ex-coach gave everyone away and alienated over half the fanbase.

BroncoBuff
03-21-2012, 03:02 AM
Funny stuff in here. Wow that D was horrible. Shanny deserved to be fired for fielding that crap.

Nothing will ever surpass the nightmarish memory of Calvin Lowery in pass "coverage", or Amon Gordon "rushing" the passer.

Well, maybe Tony Lilly in SB XXII for Lowery ... but nothing will surpass the nightmare that was Amon "8 teams in 8 years, 2 career sacks" Gordon.