PDA

View Full Version : GM for a Day Offseason Plan


mattob14
01-18-2009, 03:58 PM
The draft is subject to change drastically in a week, once the Senior Bowl is completed, but a lot of these guys are fairly well-known commodities. Here's what I'd do if I were in charge this offseason:

FA:
Terrell Suggs, OLB/DE- A young, pass-rushing OLB/DE who is perfect for the hybrid D we will likely be running. He’s also an asset in coverage. He’ll be pricey, but it’s worth the money for a cornerstone to our rebuilt D.

Brian Dawkins, S- He’s not the player he once was, but he’s got something left and would be an upgrade over last year’s group. I’d prefer Dawan Landry, but there’s no way Baltimore lets him go.

Shaun Cody, DT- A big DT who underachieved in Detroit, he should be relatively cheap and has some upside. There’s a sparse market for NT’s this year, Cody’s worth a shot as a placeholder until we can find a good one.

Trade:
Elvis Dumerville for a draft pick- The Suggs signing makes Doom obsolete, but he holds value to other teams as a pass-rush specialist. 2008 was a down year for him, but the whole D struggled and Doom at least has a quality track record. I wouldn’t rule out a late-2nd in return, though a 3rd seems more likely.

#12, #141, and 2010 3rd rounder to Philly for #22 and #28- Philly needs OL help and there’s a good shot that one of Andre/Jason Smith or Michal Oher will be available at #12. This is within about 100 points in value, Philly may want a little more out of the deal though.

Draft:
#22: Clint Sintim, OLB, Virginia- A well-rounded OLB, Sintim can drop back in coverage or get after the passer. He’d be a nice bookend to Suggs bring nice size to the LB core.

#28: LeSean McCoy, RB, Pitt- The D gets most of the attention this off-season, but we need another offensive weapon too. McCoy’s a slasher who can consistently pile up yardage, has the speed to finish runs, and can catch the ball out of the backfield. McCoy and Hillis would complement each other well.

Round 2: Ron Brace, NT, BC- I feel like this may be a bit high for Brace right now, but he’s the best NT available this year and you can’t take the chance he’s gone in round 3. Brace is a big space-eater who could develop into a very nice NT in a couple of years.

Round 3a: Alex Mack, C, Cal- We’re a Center away from having a big-time OL for a number of years. Mack is big, nasty, and mobile, and would be the #1 C on the board in most drafts. If Mack is gone, Wood, Luigs, or Caldwell could all be options here.

Round 3b: Jarron Gilbert, DE, SJS- I hate this pick…feels too “flavor of the week” to me. I put up a mock the day after Christmas with Gilbert as a 6th rounder, and suddenly he’s up to the 3rd. He has been getting some buzz the last month or so though, and his work at the Shrine Game has certainly helped. He’s a solid DE option in the 3-4 and could still bring good value at this point in the draft.

Round 4: Brandon Tate, WR, UNC- A knee injury ended his Senior season, but he’s the type of returner and WR that would complement Marshall and Royal nicely. He’s a big-play threat that is only available at this point due to the injury.

Round 5: Jasper Brinkley, ILB, USC- A big, tough player, his scouting report reads like a poor man’s Rey Maualuga: hard-hitting, physical, player who is over-aggressive and misses tackles at times. Even if he doesn’t develop as a starter, he’s a physical backup who is a natural fit for the 3-4, something our current crop of LBers will never be.

I haven’t looked at some of the late round prospects enough to fill out the 6th and 7th rounds, but CB, S and DL depth is needed, as well as a K to compete with Prater.

As I write this, Philly is coming back on AZ, and those picks could be #28 and #31/32. If that’s the case, #12 is pretty even value with those two picks, and I’d hope Sintim and McCoy would still be available. We may need to move up a bit for Sintim though.

I wasn't able to address S in the draft, and I'd love to slide William Moore or Patrick Chung in there somewhere, but I think this addresses most of our other needs and really focuses on the defensive front-7.

ward63
01-18-2009, 04:37 PM
The draft is subject to change drastically in a week, once the Senior Bowl is completed, but a lot of these guys are fairly well-known commodities. Here's what I'd do if I were in charge this offseason:

FA:
Terrell Suggs, OLB/DE- A young, pass-rushing OLB/DE who is perfect for the hybrid D we will likely be running. He’s also an asset in coverage. He’ll be pricey, but it’s worth the money for a cornerstone to our rebuilt D.

Brian Dawkins, S- He’s not the player he once was, but he’s got something left and would be an upgrade over last year’s group. I’d prefer Dawan Landry, but there’s no way Baltimore lets him go.

Shaun Cody, DT- A big DT who underachieved in Detroit, he should be relatively cheap and has some upside. There’s a sparse market for NT’s this year, Cody’s worth a shot as a placeholder until we can find a good one.

Trade:
Elvis Dumerville for a draft pick- The Suggs signing makes Doom obsolete, but he holds value to other teams as a pass-rush specialist. 2008 was a down year for him, but the whole D struggled and Doom at least has a quality track record. I wouldn’t rule out a late-2nd in return, though a 3rd seems more likely.

#12, #141, and 2010 3rd rounder to Philly for #22 and #28- Philly needs OL help and there’s a good shot that one of Andre/Jason Smith or Michal Oher will be available at #12. This is within about 100 points in value, Philly may want a little more out of the deal though.

Draft:
#22: Clint Sintim, OLB, Virginia- A well-rounded OLB, Sintim can drop back in coverage or get after the passer. He’d be a nice bookend to Suggs bring nice size to the LB core.

#28: LeSean McCoy, RB, Pitt- The D gets most of the attention this off-season, but we need another offensive weapon too. McCoy’s a slasher who can consistently pile up yardage, has the speed to finish runs, and can catch the ball out of the backfield. McCoy and Hillis would complement each other well.

Round 2: Ron Brace, NT, BC- I feel like this may be a bit high for Brace right now, but he’s the best NT available this year and you can’t take the chance he’s gone in round 3. Brace is a big space-eater who could develop into a very nice NT in a couple of years.

Round 3a: Alex Mack, C, Cal- We’re a Center away from having a big-time OL for a number of years. Mack is big, nasty, and mobile, and would be the #1 C on the board in most drafts. If Mack is gone, Wood, Luigs, or Caldwell could all be options here.

Round 3b: Jarron Gilbert, DE, SJS- I hate this pick…feels too “flavor of the week” to me. I put up a mock the day after Christmas with Gilbert as a 6th rounder, and suddenly he’s up to the 3rd. He has been getting some buzz the last month or so though, and his work at the Shrine Game has certainly helped. He’s a solid DE option in the 3-4 and could still bring good value at this point in the draft.

Round 4: Brandon Tate, WR, UNC- A knee injury ended his Senior season, but he’s the type of returner and WR that would complement Marshall and Royal nicely. He’s a big-play threat that is only available at this point due to the injury.

Round 5: Jasper Brinkley, ILB, USC- A big, tough player, his scouting report reads like a poor man’s Rey Maualuga: hard-hitting, physical, player who is over-aggressive and misses tackles at times. Even if he doesn’t develop as a starter, he’s a physical backup who is a natural fit for the 3-4, something our current crop of LBers will never be.

I haven’t looked at some of the late round prospects enough to fill out the 6th and 7th rounds, but CB, S and DL depth is needed, as well as a K to compete with Prater.

As I write this, Philly is coming back on AZ, and those picks could be #28 and #31/32. If that’s the case, #12 is pretty even value with those two picks, and I’d hope Sintim and McCoy would still be available. We may need to move up a bit for Sintim though.

I wasn't able to address S in the draft, and I'd love to slide William Moore or Patrick Chung in there somewhere, but I think this addresses most of our other needs and really focuses on the defensive front-7.

Good luck with that! IF we can get him in the 3rd, I would be very excited, but I wouldn't count on it. Instead, I'll take Eric Wood from Louisville. He's started pretty much every game of his 4 years there and would be great competition with Lichtenstiger

SpringStein
01-18-2009, 06:01 PM
Good luck with that! IF we can get him in the 3rd, I would be very excited, but I wouldn't count on it. Instead, I'll take Eric Wood from Louisville. He's started pretty much every game of his 4 years there and would be great competition with Lichtenstiger

A GREAT year for OC:

Unger, Oregon
Luigs, Ark
Mack, CA
Caldwell, Bama
Wood, Louisville

and know I'm missing at least one other. In lots of years any of these guys might have been the top C.

socalorado
01-18-2009, 06:27 PM
The draft is subject to change drastically in a week, once the Senior Bowl is completed, but a lot of these guys are fairly well-known commodities. Here's what I'd do if I were in charge this offseason:

FA:
Terrell Suggs, OLB/DE- A young, pass-rushing OLB/DE who is perfect for the hybrid D we will likely be running. He’s also an asset in coverage. He’ll be pricey, but it’s worth the money for a cornerstone to our rebuilt D.

Brian Dawkins, S- He’s not the player he once was, but he’s got something left and would be an upgrade over last year’s group. I’d prefer Dawan Landry, but there’s no way Baltimore lets him go.

Shaun Cody, DT- A big DT who underachieved in Detroit, he should be relatively cheap and has some upside. There’s a sparse market for NT’s this year, Cody’s worth a shot as a placeholder until we can find a good one.

Trade:
Elvis Dumerville for a draft pick- The Suggs signing makes Doom obsolete, but he holds value to other teams as a pass-rush specialist. 2008 was a down year for him, but the whole D struggled and Doom at least has a quality track record. I wouldn’t rule out a late-2nd in return, though a 3rd seems more likely.

#12, #141, and 2010 3rd rounder to Philly for #22 and #28- Philly needs OL help and there’s a good shot that one of Andre/Jason Smith or Michal Oher will be available at #12. This is within about 100 points in value, Philly may want a little more out of the deal though.

Draft:
#22: Clint Sintim, OLB, Virginia- A well-rounded OLB, Sintim can drop back in coverage or get after the passer. He’d be a nice bookend to Suggs bring nice size to the LB core.

#28: LeSean McCoy, RB, Pitt- The D gets most of the attention this off-season, but we need another offensive weapon too. McCoy’s a slasher who can consistently pile up yardage, has the speed to finish runs, and can catch the ball out of the backfield. McCoy and Hillis would complement each other well.

Round 2: Ron Brace, NT, BC- I feel like this may be a bit high for Brace right now, but he’s the best NT available this year and you can’t take the chance he’s gone in round 3. Brace is a big space-eater who could develop into a very nice NT in a couple of years.

Round 3a: Alex Mack, C, Cal- We’re a Center away from having a big-time OL for a number of years. Mack is big, nasty, and mobile, and would be the #1 C on the board in most drafts. If Mack is gone, Wood, Luigs, or Caldwell could all be options here.

Round 3b: Jarron Gilbert, DE, SJS- I hate this pick…feels too “flavor of the week” to me. I put up a mock the day after Christmas with Gilbert as a 6th rounder, and suddenly he’s up to the 3rd. He has been getting some buzz the last month or so though, and his work at the Shrine Game has certainly helped. He’s a solid DE option in the 3-4 and could still bring good value at this point in the draft.

Round 4: Brandon Tate, WR, UNC- A knee injury ended his Senior season, but he’s the type of returner and WR that would complement Marshall and Royal nicely. He’s a big-play threat that is only available at this point due to the injury.

Round 5: Jasper Brinkley, ILB, USC- A big, tough player, his scouting report reads like a poor man’s Rey Maualuga: hard-hitting, physical, player who is over-aggressive and misses tackles at times. Even if he doesn’t develop as a starter, he’s a physical backup who is a natural fit for the 3-4, something our current crop of LBers will never be.

I haven’t looked at some of the late round prospects enough to fill out the 6th and 7th rounds, but CB, S and DL depth is needed, as well as a K to compete with Prater.

As I write this, Philly is coming back on AZ, and those picks could be #28 and #31/32. If that’s the case, #12 is pretty even value with those two picks, and I’d hope Sintim and McCoy would still be available. We may need to move up a bit for Sintim though.

I wasn't able to address S in the draft, and I'd love to slide William Moore or Patrick Chung in there somewhere, but I think this addresses most of our other needs and really focuses on the defensive front-7.

NICE! Now theres a well thought out mock!!
Sintim- Solid.
McCoy. Solid
Brace. Solid
Mack. Dude, are you kidding me, he'll be long gone.
Gilbert. Solid
Tate. Waste of a pick. Too many probs on Defense. Go SS
Brinkley. Meh. Injury prone, and this team cant afford to waste picks.

As for the late rounds look at the kickers and a QB and a hybrid FS/CB. Another linemen wouldnt hurt either.
Overall, a solid draft, and the real tough part is getting quality (realistically) at the top of the draft, and thats exactly what you did.
Smooth.
Also, Dawkins is too old. If DEN is going to spend FA money, lets spend the $$$ wisely! Go after FS OJ Atogwe, who is young, a border-line pro bowler,(hes good!, REAL GOOD!!!) and can be had to a long term deal. This allows the SS spot to be fought over by Barrett, WWIII, and a later round draft pick.

mattob14
01-18-2009, 09:11 PM
NICE! Now theres a well thought out mock!!
Sintim- Solid.
McCoy. Solid
Brace. Solid
Mack. Dude, are you kidding me, he'll be long gone.
Gilbert. Solid
Tate. Waste of a pick. Too many probs on Defense. Go SS
Brinkley. Meh. Injury prone, and this team cant afford to waste picks.

As for the late rounds look at the kickers and a QB and a hybrid FS/CB. Another linemen wouldnt hurt either.
Overall, a solid draft, and the real tough part is getting quality (realistically) at the top of the draft, and thats exactly what you did.
Smooth.
Also, Dawkins is too old. If DEN is going to spend FA money, lets spend the $$$ wisely! Go after FS OJ Atogwe, who is young, a border-line pro bowler,(hes good!, REAL GOOD!!!) and can be had to a long term deal. This allows the SS spot to be fought over by Barrett, WWIII, and a later round draft pick.

Thanks, I tried to keep it as realistic as possible. Mack may be a long-shot in the 3rd, but he seems to be one of those seniors who gets over-analyzed and drops a bit. I've seen Unger and Wood ranked above him and wouldn't be shocked to see him in round 3. Any of the top C's would work here though.

As for Atogwe, he's my choice as well, I just don't see him being available with St Louis bringing in Spags. I don't see any way he lets his top defensive playmaker walk this off-season. If we can make it happen though, he's certainly much better than Dawkins.

gyldenlove
01-18-2009, 09:15 PM
Here is how I would like it to go down:

UFA: Bart Scott, LB, Ravens
UFA: Dwan Edwards, DL, Ravens
UFA: Sean Jones, S, Browns

Draft:

1. Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC

He would form the middle with Scott and be groomed into our defensive leader.

2a. Rashad Johnson, S, Alabama or Sean Smith, S, Utah

A centerfielder with enormous range who can cover and make plays on the ball.

2b. Trade our 3rd round pick, and both 5th rounders to Arizona for their 2nd rounder, Ron Brace, DT, BC

We need a big body and he is one. He doesn't have the penetration of his fatbody partner at BC, but he should provide some stout run stuffing.

4, Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama

Depth at Interior offensive line, a need and good value.

6, Zach Potter, DE, Nebraska

Big guy with massive frame who can get even bigger. Plays the run very well.

7a, Mitch King, DT, Iowa

A hard worker who has a lot of experience and versatility, not a top athlete but could find a spot in rotation or on ST.

7b, Lee Robertson, OLB, Alcorn St.

Small school guy with tons of production, more than 50 tackles for losses and 20 sacks in 4 year college career.


Depth chart would be:


DE: Dwan Edwards
NT: Ron Brace
DE: Carlton Powell
Backups: Marcus Thomas (rotating at DE), Zach Potter (DE)

WOLB: DJ Williams
ILB: Bart Scott
ILB: Rey Maualuga
SOLB: Jarvis Moss/Elvis Dumervil (Whoever wins the TC battle)
Backups: Wesley Woodyard at WOLB, Spencer Larsen at ILB, Lee Robertson at WOLB, Mitch King at SOLB

CB: Champ Bailey
SS: Sean Jones
FS: Rashad Johnson
CB: Dre Bly
Backups: JMFW, Josh Bell, Josh Barrett

mattob14
01-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Here is how I would like it to go down:

UFA: Bart Scott, LB, Ravens
UFA: Dwan Edwards, DL, Ravens
UFA: Sean Jones, S, Browns

Draft:

1. Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC

He would form the middle with Scott and be groomed into our defensive leader.

2a. Rashad Johnson, S, Alabama or Sean Smith, S, Utah

A centerfielder with enormous range who can cover and make plays on the ball.

2b. Trade our 3rd round pick, and both 5th rounders to Arizona for their 2nd rounder, Ron Brace, DT, BC

We need a big body and he is one. He doesn't have the penetration of his fatbody partner at BC, but he should provide some stout run stuffing.

4, Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama

Depth at Interior offensive line, a need and good value.

6, Zach Potter, DE, Nebraska

Big guy with massive frame who can get even bigger. Plays the run very well.

7a, Mitch King, DT, Iowa

A hard worker who has a lot of experience and versatility, not a top athlete but could find a spot in rotation or on ST.

7b, Lee Robertson, OLB, Alcorn St.

Small school guy with tons of production, more than 50 tackles for losses and 20 sacks in 4 year college career.


Depth chart would be:


DE: Dwan Edwards
NT: Ron Brace
DE: Carlton Powell
Backups: Marcus Thomas (rotating at DE), Zach Potter (DE)

WOLB: DJ Williams
ILB: Bart Scott
ILB: Rey Maualuga
SOLB: Jarvis Moss/Elvis Dumervil (Whoever wins the TC battle)
Backups: Wesley Woodyard at WOLB, Spencer Larsen at ILB, Lee Robertson at WOLB, Mitch King at SOLB

CB: Champ Bailey
SS: Sean Jones
FS: Rashad Johnson
CB: Dre Bly
Backups: JMFW, Josh Bell, Josh Barrett

I like some of those names (Bart Scott's a good player), but my big fear is the pass rush. We'd be relying heavily on Moss/Doom, and I'm not sure either will be the player we want them to be in the 3-4. Also, I still don't see DJ playing outside in the 3-4; he doesn't have the requisite pass-rush ability. Rashad Johnson's also a popular name right now, and I like his ball skills, but I question his strength and tackling ability in the pros. He seemed to have trouble wrapping up and finishing tackles on RB's when I watched him play this year. Scott and Maualuga would be a nice combo up the middle though.

socalorado
01-19-2009, 12:36 PM
Here is how I would like it to go down:

UFA: Bart Scott, LB, Ravens
UFA: Dwan Edwards, DL, Ravens
UFA: Sean Jones, S, Browns

Draft:

1. Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC

He would form the middle with Scott and be groomed into our defensive leader.

2a. Rashad Johnson, S, Alabama or Sean Smith, S, Utah

A centerfielder with enormous range who can cover and make plays on the ball.

2b. Trade our 3rd round pick, and both 5th rounders to Arizona for their 2nd rounder, Ron Brace, DT, BC

We need a big body and he is one. He doesn't have the penetration of his fatbody partner at BC, but he should provide some stout run stuffing.

4, Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama

Depth at Interior offensive line, a need and good value.

6, Zach Potter, DE, Nebraska

Big guy with massive frame who can get even bigger. Plays the run very well.

7a, Mitch King, DT, Iowa

A hard worker who has a lot of experience and versatility, not a top athlete but could find a spot in rotation or on ST.

7b, Lee Robertson, OLB, Alcorn St.

Small school guy with tons of production, more than 50 tackles for losses and 20 sacks in 4 year college career.


Depth chart would be:


DE: Dwan Edwards
NT: Ron Brace
DE: Carlton Powell
Backups: Marcus Thomas (rotating at DE), Zach Potter (DE)

WOLB: DJ Williams
ILB: Bart Scott
ILB: Rey Maualuga
SOLB: Jarvis Moss/Elvis Dumervil (Whoever wins the TC battle)
Backups: Wesley Woodyard at WOLB, Spencer Larsen at ILB, Lee Robertson at WOLB, Mitch King at SOLB

CB: Champ Bailey
SS: Sean Jones
FS: Rashad Johnson
CB: Dre Bly
Backups: JMFW, Josh Bell, Josh Barrett

Jeez! This is pretty nice too! I am impressed guys. Some of you are putting some real thought into DENs crappy situation. And there really are some realistic options to solve alot of DENs problems in 1 Offseason!
I dont think Mitch King lasts that long though. I would say 4th-5th round, but who knows!
Also, i like Scott/REY REY in the middle, but that puts alot of pressure on rookies and Modss to get to the QB. I like Larsen alot paired with REY REY.
Just my 2 cents.
Honestly, i would take Sean Smith over Rashad. And i have been pimping Rashad here longer than anyone! Rashad is a little light for me, and Smith is a big safety/CB.

gyldenlove
01-19-2009, 12:53 PM
I like Sean Smith too, but I am worried his learning curve will be steeper because he will switch from CB to S like Merriweather did and his curve was pretty bad. I feel that Rashad Johnson is more NFL ready and if you put him in with a more experienced guy like Sean Jones he will be able to make his rookie mistakes. I could see Barrett and Johnson rotate depending on pass/run situations.

I was actually quite loathed to leave Spencer Larsen out, but my feeling is that Larsen and Rey are too similar, both are run stoppers who lack a bit in pass coverage, so I needed Bart Scott in there. In the 3-4 you need a lot of linebackers, in New England Seau saw up to 40% of the defensive snaps even though he was a backup just to keep people fresh. I could see something like Scott plays 80% of the snaps, Maualuga 60% and Larsen 60%.

Back in the day Jarvis Moss was a hot name for 3-4 OLB, he has the speed off the edge and he is prototypical size (compare him to Ware or Merriman or Porter). Dumervil would be more of a flex player like Suggs, someone who would line up as a DE on about 40-50% of plays and simply transform into a 4-3 front, and OLB the rest of the time.

I really like Carlton Powell as a DE, he is used to facing double teams and is a solid run stopper (he anchored the best run D a year ago).

My biggest problem is obviously the NT position, I think if we can get through a year of Marcus Thomas and Ron Brace we go hard for Mount Cody next year, he is a man eater and would be so perfect in the middle. Imagine a rotation of Terrence Cody and Ron Brace in the middle.

A player I was really trying to work in, but fell out is Sammie Lee Hill from Stillman, he will probably be about a 6th or 7th round pick or a priority UDFA. He is a huge body who dominated at Stillman, he is at the Shrine game is pretty raw, but huge, strong and very coachable. I think if you put him in with a good DL coach, he will be an NFL player. His only non football media attention was when he helped save an old guy from a burning house, so not exactly a character concern.

socalorado
01-19-2009, 02:15 PM
I like Sean Smith too, but I am worried his learning curve will be steeper because he will switch from CB to S like Merriweather did and his curve was pretty bad. I feel that Rashad Johnson is more NFL ready and if you put him in with a more experienced guy like Sean Jones he will be able to make his rookie mistakes. I could see Barrett and Johnson rotate depending on pass/run situations.

I was actually quite loathed to leave Spencer Larsen out, but my feeling is that Larsen and Rey are too similar, both are run stoppers who lack a bit in pass coverage, so I needed Bart Scott in there. In the 3-4 you need a lot of linebackers, in New England Seau saw up to 40% of the defensive snaps even though he was a backup just to keep people fresh. I could see something like Scott plays 80% of the snaps, Maualuga 60% and Larsen 60%.

Back in the day Jarvis Moss was a hot name for 3-4 OLB, he has the speed off the edge and he is prototypical size (compare him to Ware or Merriman or Porter). Dumervil would be more of a flex player like Suggs, someone who would line up as a DE on about 40-50% of plays and simply transform into a 4-3 front, and OLB the rest of the time.

I really like Carlton Powell as a DE, he is used to facing double teams and is a solid run stopper (he anchored the best run D a year ago).

My biggest problem is obviously the NT position, I think if we can get through a year of Marcus Thomas and Ron Brace we go hard for Mount Cody next year, he is a man eater and would be so perfect in the middle. Imagine a rotation of Terrence Cody and Ron Brace in the middle.

A player I was really trying to work in, but fell out is Sammie Lee Hill from Stillman, he will probably be about a 6th or 7th round pick or a priority UDFA. He is a huge body who dominated at Stillman, he is at the Shrine game is pretty raw, but huge, strong and very coachable. I think if you put him in with a good DL coach, he will be an NFL player. His only non football media attention was when he helped save an old guy from a burning house, so not exactly a character concern.

Atogwes an UFA. He gets no recognition there, but that might not be a big deal to him. However, STL is historically a cheap team, so i think they low ball him, and he just moves on to a better deal. I dont think Spags will have alot to do with it considering they suck so bad. Hopefully he wants bigger $$ and a better situation, with a better club. I think if DEN just throws a Madieu Williams like deal at him, he comes over. Who knows!
As for Sean Smith, guy has great recovery speed, and can also play CB. I want him for solid depth, and if Barrett can play SS, then i would like to see Smith as the "big nickel". Hes a physical, tall, fast defender, that can shut down opposing TEs. Guys 6-3 215. DEN needs to get bigger and faster in the secondary. Plus DEN is getting old at CB, and Smith is a legit CB. I like that alot. Champ keeps getting injured, and although i like Josh Bell, i would much rather see Sean Smith breaking up a TD pass to Gonzo, instead of little Bell letting one get by. I like Josh bell too! I actually see Bly walking this offseason. i dont know why, but i do. I think Bell could be the #2. Weird i know.
Larsen is my choice for side kick to REY REY. However, you are right in that he doesnt have really good coverage abilities. I think REY does , and doesnt get any recognition for it. Had 2 INTs on the year. Mays had 4. huh.
But i like your plan too. Use them 60% of the time, along with Scott. I just think Suggs is the bigger slice of the pie DEN needs to aquire. Simply because i would rather DEN relied on a REY REY/Larsen combo in the middle, and Suggs on the outside, than a REY REY/Scott middle, and Moss on the outside.
Uhg! Moss just brings nothing to the table so far. Guy has done nothing but get injured and jump on the pile. Hes really not a player i want DEN to rely on at all. i actually think Crowder has more upside, but hes done nothing either. This is a huge ? and these two need to get sorted out by Nolan. until then, its a real nightmare. But i dont trust Moss to make any impression, and until he does, i like Suggs alot more. Just me i guess.

I would like DEN to trade a 5th to SF for NT Ronald Fields. Just get a couple guys like you have, and let them fight it out in camp. Make it a real competition. Powell at DE, sure that works dude has super human college stats, so we"ll see.

And i still think theres room for a RB in there. too.

gyldenlove
01-19-2009, 02:31 PM
Atogwes an UFA. He gets no recognition there, but that might not be a big deal to him. However, STL is historically a cheap team, so i think they low ball him, and he just moves on to a better deal. I dont think Spags will have alot to do with it considering they suck so bad. Hopefully he wants bigger $$ and a better situation, with a better club. I think if DEN just throws a Madieu Williams like deal at him, he comes over. Who knows!
As for Sean Smith, guy has great recovery speed, and can also play CB. I want him for solid depth, and if Barrett can play SS, then i would like to see Smith as the "big nickel". Hes a physical, tall, fast defender, that can shut down opposing TEs. Guys 6-3 215. DEN needs to get bigger and faster in the secondary. Plus DEN is getting old at CB, and Smith is a legit CB. I like that alot. Champ keeps getting injured, and although i like Josh Bell, i would much rather see Sean Smith breaking up a TD pass to Gonzo, instead of little Bell letting one get by. I like Josh bell too! I actually see Bly walking this offseason. i dont know why, but i do. I think Bell could be the #2. Weird i know.
Larsen is my choice for side kick to REY REY. However, you are right in that he doesnt have really good coverage abilities. I think REY does , and doesnt get any recognition for it. Had 2 INTs on the year. Mays had 4. huh.
But i like your plan too. Use them 60% of the time, along with Scott. I just think Suggs is the bigger slice of the pie DEN needs to aquire. Simply because i would rather DEN relied on a REY REY/Larsen combo in the middle, and Suggs on the outside, than a REY REY/Scott middle, and Moss on the outside.
Uhg! Moss just brings nothing to the table so far. Guy has done nothing but get injured and jump on the pile. Hes really not a player i want DEN to rely on at all. i actually think Crowder has more upside, but hes done nothing either. This is a huge ? and these two need to get sorted out by Nolan. until then, its a real nightmare. But i dont trust Moss to make any impression, and until he does, i like Suggs alot more. Just me i guess.

I would like DEN to trade a 5th to SF for NT Ronald Fields. Just get a couple guys like you have, and let them fight it out in camp. Make it a real competition. Powell at DE, sure that works dude has super human college stats, so we"ll see.

And i still think theres room for a RB in there. too.

I like Atogwe, he is no Ed Reed, but he is better than what we have by quite a margin. I am worried that with new ownership and a new coach they will be more aggressive and I think with a defensive coach they will try hard to keep the defense up.

I think there is a chance that Sean Jones hits the market, I know he wants to stay in Cleveland, but with a new coaching staff and GM they may not be as loyal as he is. I think if offered the chance to be a promised starter with a club that should be in contention for playoff spots, he might be persuaded to come. I think he is a better overall package than Atogwe, he isn't quite the centerfielder that Atoqwe is, but Jones is pretty good against the run.

Rey is good in zone coverage when he faces the action, but he is no man cover linebacker in my eyes, and that is where I would like Scott.

Suggs is obviously very attractive, but I just don't think he will be allowed to go. Suggs is clearly going to want to be paid like a DE, and I am thinking they will use the Dwight Freeney contract as blueprint and that is just too rich. Scott can be had for a deal in the region of Adalius Thomas which is much more affordable (my guess).

I am not much for relying on Moss either, but I do know this is what they said he would do the best, and even if he doesn't do it well we do have Dumervil as a backup rusher. As for DJ Williams, you shouldn't think Shaun Philips, you should think Mike Vrabel, the guy who does the coverage and the guy who stops the run.

I completely agree about CB, I really wanted to get CB in the 2nd, but we just need S more. In my scenario CB and NT will be the main targets for next year.

mattob14
01-19-2009, 05:46 PM
I like Atogwe, he is no Ed Reed, but he is better than what we have by quite a margin. I am worried that with new ownership and a new coach they will be more aggressive and I think with a defensive coach they will try hard to keep the defense up.

I think there is a chance that Sean Jones hits the market, I know he wants to stay in Cleveland, but with a new coaching staff and GM they may not be as loyal as he is. I think if offered the chance to be a promised starter with a club that should be in contention for playoff spots, he might be persuaded to come. I think he is a better overall package than Atogwe, he isn't quite the centerfielder that Atoqwe is, but Jones is pretty good against the run.

Rey is good in zone coverage when he faces the action, but he is no man cover linebacker in my eyes, and that is where I would like Scott.

Suggs is obviously very attractive, but I just don't think he will be allowed to go. Suggs is clearly going to want to be paid like a DE, and I am thinking they will use the Dwight Freeney contract as blueprint and that is just too rich. Scott can be had for a deal in the region of Adalius Thomas which is much more affordable (my guess).

I am not much for relying on Moss either, but I do know this is what they said he would do the best, and even if he doesn't do it well we do have Dumervil as a backup rusher. As for DJ Williams, you shouldn't think Shaun Philips, you should think Mike Vrabel, the guy who does the coverage and the guy who stops the run.

I completely agree about CB, I really wanted to get CB in the 2nd, but we just need S more. In my scenario CB and NT will be the main targets for next year.

We may disagree slightly on player preference, but I'd agree with socal, this is well thought-out. We have enough needs this offseason, as long as we focus on maximizing value in the draft, we'll be fine. We'll fill most of our holes sooner or later, then be able to go into next year much more focused on specific needs.

gyldenlove
01-19-2009, 06:39 PM
One thing I have been thinking is that we shouldn't overturn our entire defense. I know the prevailing thought is that we really have few if any players on the roster right now who should be starting, and I would say that is probably somewhat true. But I look at Atlanta and Miami, and what they did with some moderate changes, and it seems like we might be okay with a few important changes.

It is really about troubleshooting, as a scientist whenever I am faced with a problem I go back to basics. I try to eliminate each step in the process one by one until I find where the problem is. Right now, we don't know where the problem is, we don't know if we are a good pass rusher and a cover safety away from a pretty good defense, or if we need a strong MLB who can read the offense and audible the coverage, or if we need a big space eating DT to clog the middle, or if we need some younger cornerbacks, or a new system, or a new coach. The best plan of action seems to be to try to eliminate the possibilities one at a time, we swap a player or two, or try a new system, or a new coach and then we see what happens, and if we need futher change then we will do that.

If the change all the players, the system, the coaches and everything else, we will never know what works and what didn't.

I have certainly been somewhat guilty myself of wanting to throw everything overboard and begin over, but I think it is important to stay reasonable and try to find the best cost/benefit balance.

Tombstone RJ
01-19-2009, 08:36 PM
cool thread...

*Famous*
01-19-2009, 09:35 PM
we are a good pass rusher and a cover safety away from a pretty good defense, AND we need a strong MLB who can read the offense and audible the coverage, AND we need a big space eating DT to clog the middle, AND we need some younger cornerbacks, AND a new system, AND a new coach.

I think you nailed it!!

nickademus
01-20-2009, 01:20 PM
One thing I have been thinking is that we shouldn't overturn our entire defense. I know the prevailing thought is that we really have few if any players on the roster right now who should be starting, and I would say that is probably somewhat true. But I look at Atlanta and Miami, and what they did with some moderate changes, and it seems like we might be okay with a few important changes.

It is really about troubleshooting, as a scientist whenever I am faced with a problem I go back to basics. I try to eliminate each step in the process one by one until I find where the problem is. Right now, we don't know where the problem is, we don't know if we are a good pass rusher and a cover safety away from a pretty good defense, or if we need a strong MLB who can read the offense and audible the coverage, or if we need a big space eating DT to clog the middle, or if we need some younger cornerbacks, or a new system, or a new coach. The best plan of action seems to be to try to eliminate the possibilities one at a time, we swap a player or two, or try a new system, or a new coach and then we see what happens, and if we need futher change then we will do that.

If the change all the players, the system, the coaches and everything else, we will never know what works and what didn't.

I have certainly been somewhat guilty myself of wanting to throw everything overboard and begin over, but I think it is important to stay reasonable and try to find the best cost/benefit balance.

This is the best description of the problem I have seen in a while. The problem I have with this is that we were doing this the entire season. We tried everything. IMHO we dont need to scrap the entire D to improve but we do need a consistant system to improve and reguardless of which one we choose there will be turn-over.

I prefer the 3-4 at this point for the sole reason that it seems to be easier to find players for this system outside of NT. I think we are a few players closer to the 4-3 but getting the pieces in the front 7 to make this work seems to be a pretty big challenge and one we have yet to meet. Depending on who is available in FA our first round pick should either be Laurinitus or Rey Rey I would take any of the Balt. FAs accept R. Lewis. the biggest need for us reguardless of system has to be S we need two, I am not sold on Barret like alot of people around here. I also agree that we probably wont have Bly or Robertson back this season. And we are finally getting rid of Nate Webster so for that reason alone I am looking forward to next season!

Drek
01-20-2009, 02:13 PM
If I was GM for a day I'd hold tryouts in my office (with a selective screener at the door) for a Broncos Cheerleaders Wet T-Shirt day.

That'd occupy pretty much the whole day. :D

BroncoBuff
01-20-2009, 02:32 PM
Hate to be a wet blanket ... but imo:

1) No offensive players until later, 4th round at the earliest, we're just too loaded on that side of the ball. Besides, I think Torain/Hillis/Tatum will form a fine feature-back RBBC, with Hall/Aldridge/Young vying for 3rd down specialist ...

2) Atogwe or Phillips or one of the two Tampa free agent safeties ... keep Marlon McRee for experience in nickel/dime situations.

3) Suggs will be way too expensive ... and the Ravens have indicated they're gonna fight to keep him.

4) I like Ron Brace if we have to wait 'til the 2nd round, but I prefer doing whatever is necessary to get B.J. Raji. He has dominated so far at Senior Bowl practices ... his run-stuffing skillz are Hayneworth-like, and his penetration/pass-rushing skills are Sapp-like. He's a once-in-a-decade NT for a hybrid 3-4 system, and I say we get him.

Just look at what a nice young man he is ...

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/449bb79ad5_bc08022008.jpg

BroncoBuff
01-20-2009, 02:34 PM
If I was GM for a day I'd hold tryouts in my office (with a selective screener at the door) for a Broncos Cheerleaders Wet T-Shirt day.In your private office?

socalorado
01-20-2009, 02:44 PM
Hate to be a wet blanket ... but imo:

1) No offensive players until later, 4th round at the earliest, we're just too loaded on that side of the ball. Besides, I think Torain/Hillis/Tatum will form a fine feature-back RBBC, with Hall/Aldridge/Young vying for 3rd down specialist ...
2) Atogwe or Phillips or one of the two Tampa free agent safeties ... keep Marlon McRee for experience in nickel/dime situations.
I also like NE James Sanders idea. He is a solid player. And get a FS like UTAH Sean Smith in the draft.
3) Suggs will be way too expensive ... and the Ravens have indicated they're gonna fight to keep him.
BArt Scott then
4) I like Ron Brace if we have to wait 'til the 2nd round, but I prefer doing whatever is necessary to get B.J. Raji. He has dominated so far at Senior Bowl practices ... his run-stuffing skillz are Hayneworth-like, and his penetration/pass-rushing skills are Sapp-like. He's a once-in-a-decade NT for a hybrid 3-4 system, and I say we get him.
Brace or Scott will be just fine to me, if they go with BJ in the 1st , i am ok with it though. How can anyone NOT be ok with it?!?! Jeez, DEN sucks on defense!!
Just look at what a nice young man he is ...

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/449bb79ad5_bc08022008.jpg

Also, i STILL think DEN can afford to go after a RB in the 2nd round. ONE PICK isnt going to kill the defense, and if DEN is aggressive in FA on the defesive side of the ball, it wont kill them. Theres a good chance that all of these RBs could be available in the 2nd round.

LeSean McCoy
Shonn Greene
Rashad Jennings
Donald Brown

That alot of talent man. Just one RB could really, really make DEN a super power on offense. You know what would just be gravy, is if DEN could just aquire another 2nd.

mattob14
01-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Hate to be a wet blanket ... but imo:

1) No offensive players until later, 4th round at the earliest, we're just too loaded on that side of the ball. Besides, I think Torain/Hillis/Tatum will form a fine feature-back RBBC, with Hall/Aldridge/Young vying for 3rd down specialist ...

2) Atogwe or Phillips or one of the two Tampa free agent safeties ... keep Marlon McRee for experience in nickel/dime situations.

3) Suggs will be way too expensive ... and the Ravens have indicated they're gonna fight to keep him.

4) I like Ron Brace if we have to wait 'til the 2nd round, but I prefer doing whatever is necessary to get B.J. Raji. He has dominated so far at Senior Bowl practices ... his run-stuffing skillz are Hayneworth-like, and his penetration/pass-rushing skills are Sapp-like. He's a once-in-a-decade NT for a hybrid 3-4 system, and I say we get him.

Just look at what a nice young man he is ...

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/449bb79ad5_bc08022008.jpg

I agree with some of this, but I've got a different take on a few of these:

1. Our Offense is certainly ahead of the D, but I wouldn't say we're loaded on that side of the ball until we can consistently pick up the tough yardage in the running game and control the clock. Adding a RB like McCoy to Hillis would provide 2 players the ability to carry the ball or catch out of the backfield and complement each other very well as situational backs. I really believe McCoy would make this an elite offense. My last concern here is that I think we'd already be reaching a saturation point as far as defensive turnover. Adding more rookies to the mix may be counter-productive at that point.

2. As I mentioned early, I just don't see SL letting Atogwe go. I think they'll make an effort to keep their top defensive playmaker and allow Spags to build that D. Phillips is in a similar boat- TB just promoted his position coach to HC, and I don't see any way they let him go, unless we grossly overpay. I hope I'm wrong on these two though, either would be a big upgrade.

3. Suggs may be a pipe-dream, but Bal has a number of defensive FA's and something will have to give. If Suggs gets a big deal, their hands may be tied in retaining their other FA's.

4. Raji's my top choice if we stay at #12, but I wonder what type of D we'll run. If we do decide to stick with a hybrid D, he brings a lot of value. As a true NT, though, I wonder if he loses some of his value, since his athleticism will be somewhat wasted. Also, there's a good chance he's gone before #12.

Regardless of which direction we do go, we've got a lot of options to add quality talent this year and it should be an exciting off-season.

mattob14
01-20-2009, 05:56 PM
One thing I have been thinking is that we shouldn't overturn our entire defense. I know the prevailing thought is that we really have few if any players on the roster right now who should be starting, and I would say that is probably somewhat true. But I look at Atlanta and Miami, and what they did with some moderate changes, and it seems like we might be okay with a few important changes.

It is really about troubleshooting, as a scientist whenever I am faced with a problem I go back to basics. I try to eliminate each step in the process one by one until I find where the problem is. Right now, we don't know where the problem is, we don't know if we are a good pass rusher and a cover safety away from a pretty good defense, or if we need a strong MLB who can read the offense and audible the coverage, or if we need a big space eating DT to clog the middle, or if we need some younger cornerbacks, or a new system, or a new coach. The best plan of action seems to be to try to eliminate the possibilities one at a time, we swap a player or two, or try a new system, or a new coach and then we see what happens, and if we need futher change then we will do that.

If the change all the players, the system, the coaches and everything else, we will never know what works and what didn't.

I have certainly been somewhat guilty myself of wanting to throw everything overboard and begin over, but I think it is important to stay reasonable and try to find the best cost/benefit balance.

And that's a good point. I've long felt that our biggest defensive issue is a lack of continuity and not allowing players to settle into a scheme. With a consistent scheme, we will see some players grow into their role and play above their current level of play. If we stay in a 4-3 (which appears unlikely now), I think this is even more relevant. 3 defensive players (one impact player at each level) could drastically change our fortune. If we move to a 3-4, I do believe there needs to be greater turnover (at least 4-5 new starters).