PDA

View Full Version : Jake Plummer: Smiled When Shanny was Fired


Pages : [1] 2

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 11:08 AM
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/01/16/20090116spt-bickley.html


After his time in Arizona was done, Plummer made a choice that would change his life. He decided against Chicago, where the bar for quarterbacks was set wonderfully low. He signed with Denver, where the shadow of John Elway swallows all.

Plummer has no regrets. He loved the city, the people and the fervor for football in Denver. But when offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak left to coach the Texans, everything changed. Plummer and coach Mike Shanahan weren't exactly peanut butter and bananas, and Plummer was eventually benched in favor of rookie Jay Cutler.

In the end, Plummer went from a culture of failure to a city with impossible standards. The death of Tillman affected him profoundly, planting seeds of rebellion. And when it all hit the wall in Denver, he walked out on the game and the people who had crushed his love for football.

"Shanahan was a great coach, to a certain level," Plummer said. "But I have to admit, I had a smile on my face when I heard he was fired. Not that it did me any good.

"I loved going out and competing, but it's tough when you're constantly second-guessed. I can still remember throwing a ball in practice, and I didn't know whether he was going to scream at me or say, 'Great play.' "

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 11:09 AM
Jake had his best seasons by far under Shanny....he should be able to recognize that all that minute preparation and practice is one of the main reasons why.

Jake should be above taking pot shots from Idaho.

Smoke your weed, bang your cheerleader wife, play some handball, and enjoy living the dream.

wolf754life
01-17-2009, 11:10 AM
jake is a punk ass mother****er **********

McDman
01-17-2009, 11:11 AM
I like Jake. More props to him, he is loving life right now.

Hallside
01-17-2009, 11:11 AM
F Jake.

ludo21
01-17-2009, 11:11 AM
haha. Jake is awesome. He shouldnt be taking shots, Id agree there.

Jake should not have been benched, Im still angry about that.

Rigs11
01-17-2009, 11:12 AM
shanny always came down hard on plummer and he babies cutler. I'm glad he is gone too.

Inkana7
01-17-2009, 11:13 AM
He spoke his mind. Good for him.

Seriously, this site needs to stop calling everyone and their mother a "punk".

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 11:14 AM
I like Jake. More props to him, he is loving life right now.

I like Jake as well....just think he is better than taking pot shots from Idaho.

Shanny elevated Jake's game to another level.

Inkana7
01-17-2009, 11:16 AM
I like Jake as well....just think he is better than taking pot shots from Idaho.

Shanny elevated Jake's game to another level.

You'd rather he go to Denver and say that?

He lives in Idaho.

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 11:16 AM
Besides....this thread is like tinder in a lightning storm during a drought.

Shanny and Plummer....like gas and fire on the Mane.

Victor
01-17-2009, 11:17 AM
I guess all the shanny tea-baggers think that Jake shouldn't have an opinion. Take the blinders off folks...the shanny era is over.

The king is dead, long live the king.

BroncoInferno
01-17-2009, 11:17 AM
Eh, name me someone who has been fired from a job (which Plummer essentially was) who wouldn't crack a smile when finding out the dude who canned him had his head roll, too.

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 11:17 AM
You'd rather he go to Denver and say that?

He lives in Idaho.

No **** he lives in Idaho....I knew that.

I would rather he just smile to himself and move on without telling everyone....that is the kind of guy I thought he was.

Live your life in Idaho and don't look back.

Sir Mawn
01-17-2009, 11:19 AM
Shanahan made him the best QB he could possibly have become. At one point he had all the faith in the world in him when he signed him as his QB of choice. But being one of the most erratic QB's in league history will make people second guess you, Jake.

bpc
01-17-2009, 11:21 AM
haha. Jake is awesome. He shouldnt be taking shots, Id agree there.

Jake should not have been benched, Im still angry about that.

Yeah he should of. Jake sucked his last year. He totally collapsed under the weight of a competition for the starting spot.

STFU Plummer.

Northman
01-17-2009, 11:34 AM
Plummer competing, thats a laugh. He folded like a paper tent and quit when he didnt get his way. Now that sackless POS wants to take shots at a guy who helped him become a winner instead of the true loser that he was. What a classless piece of garbage.

Inkana7
01-17-2009, 11:36 AM
Plummer competing, thats a laugh. He folded like a paper tent and quit when he didnt get his way. Now that sackless POS wants to take shots at a guy who helped him become a winner instead of the true loser that he was. What a classless piece of garbage.

Textbook Orange Mane overreaction.

Let's say you worked for some company. You're the head of your department, and things are going okay. Then, your boss hires a young kid with the same exact skill set as you, only better. Then, before Christmas, he fires you and promotes the young kid just out of college.

You wouldn't smile a little if your boss was fired a few years later?

Give me a break, people. I thought it was Jake's time to go just as much as anyone else, but he is not classless for this little comment.

DB Doom
01-17-2009, 11:37 AM
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/430/psstheyjakeld6.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 11:37 AM
I actually admire the way Jake walked away from the game and think he is probably a pretty cool dude.

I figured he would never mention the NFL again once he left the game.

HEAV
01-17-2009, 11:39 AM
I smiled to Jake...I smiled for both of us. Jake was ok in my book... the Tillman death really messed him up.

TheDave
01-17-2009, 11:42 AM
I'm guessing the over/under for this particular Jake/Shanahan thread is 6 pages...

Killericon
01-17-2009, 11:43 AM
If Plummer were to have called this reporter up and said "Hey, want a juicy quote?" then he'd be a punk. Somehow I get the vision that Plummer was just minding his own business when someone called him up, and he told him exactly what he felt. I've got nothing but respect for that.

rovolution
01-17-2009, 11:43 AM
Textbook Orange Mane overreaction.

Let's say you worked for some company. You're the head of your department, and things are going okay. Then, your boss hires a young kid with the same exact skill set as you, only better. Then, before Christmas, he fires you and promotes the young kid just out of college.

You wouldn't smile a little if your boss was fired a few years later?

Give me a break, people. I thought it was Jake's time to go just as much as anyone else, but he is not classless for this little comment.


agreed. Its an expected and perfectly natural reaction from Jake. I think any one of us would crack a smile if the boss who fired us was fired himself.

jhat01
01-17-2009, 11:47 AM
I'd smile too if the guy who **** canned me got fired. Not a huge deal..What did you expect him to do...cry??? Who cares..

Ray Finkle
01-17-2009, 11:51 AM
I like Jake but he didn't know if Shanahan would yell at him? That is because he was not bright to begin with....

broncofan7
01-17-2009, 11:53 AM
Eh, name me someone who has been fired from a job (which Plummer essentially was) who wouldn't crack a smile when finding out the dude who canned him had his head roll, too.

Exactly.

gunns
01-17-2009, 11:55 AM
I liked Jake as a person, as a QB he was frustrating. I can understand smiling when the guy that canned you, gets canned. But the fact the guy ever did say "Great play" to you, be thankful because there were a lot of times the Broncos won games in spite of you including the AFCC.

Northman
01-17-2009, 11:58 AM
Textbook Orange Mane overreaction.

Let's say you worked for some company. You're the head of your department, and things are going okay. Then, your boss hires a young kid with the same exact skill set as you, only better. Then, before Christmas, he fires you and promotes the young kid just out of college.

You wouldn't smile a little if your boss was fired a few years later?



Nope, especially if i knew that it was my responsibility to perform my duties at a high level. Your the exact problem with society in general. No personal accountability.

Inkana7
01-17-2009, 12:02 PM
Nope, especially if i knew that it was my responsibility to perform my duties at a high level. Your the exact problem with society in general. No personal accountability.

Wow, I'm the problem with society? Really. I never considered that.

Thanks, I guess I'll go kill myself now.

Northman
01-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Wow, I'm the problem with society? Really. I never considered that.

Thanks, I guess I'll go kill myself now.

Appreciate it. Thanks

Killericon
01-17-2009, 12:05 PM
Nope, especially if i knew that it was my responsibility to perform my duties at a high level. Your the exact problem with society in general. No personal accountability.

No, THAT is the exact problem with society in general.

Inkana7
01-17-2009, 12:06 PM
Appreciate it. Thanks

"Dave Matthews Band sucks. If you don't agree with me, you're what's wrong with this country. You felt personally attacked, instead of focusing on the real problem, why do you listen to ****ty music?"

Northman
01-17-2009, 12:08 PM
"Dave Matthews Band sucks. If you don't agree with me, you're what's wrong with this country. You felt personally attacked, instead of focusing on the real problem, why do you listen to ****ty music?"


I thought you were going to off yourself? Now your just a liar.

Popps
01-17-2009, 12:09 PM
A lot of Broncos fans were smiling that day.

Inkana7
01-17-2009, 12:10 PM
I thought you were going to off yourself? Now your just a liar.

The car's warming up. I'm fresh out of bullets and rope. Used 'em all in the process of destroying America's values with my lack of personal accountability and Satan worship.

Northman
01-17-2009, 12:11 PM
The car's warming up. I'm fresh out of bullets and rope. Used 'em all in the process of destroying America's values with my lack of personal accountability and Satan worship.


Sweet.

BroncoMan4ever
01-17-2009, 01:19 PM
Jake had his best seasons by far under Shanny....he should be able to recognize that all that minute preparation and practice is one of the main reasons why.

Jake should be above taking pot shots from Idaho.

Smoke your weed, bang your cheerleader wife, play some handball, and enjoy living the dream.

Jake had his best seasons with KUBES. once Kubiak was gone, it went downhill because Shanahan was a bit of an asshole to him.

Jake got a raw deal coming to Denver. he blew off a couple other franchises where being mediocre would have been an improvement and came to Denver where the bar for QB's is unimaginably high. He got this team to the AFCCG only to not be praised for getting us a playoff win and home Championship Game appearance but to have his replacement drafted.

How well do you think anyone can perform when the man who is there to replace you at a moments notice is sitting right next to you?

Also, fans knew what kind of QB he was before he came to Denver, and seemed shocked to find out that he would throw the occasional bad pass or make the occasional wtf was that play.

baja
01-17-2009, 01:24 PM
Much to do about nothing

broncofan7
01-17-2009, 01:29 PM
The car's warming up. I'm fresh out of bullets and rope. Used 'em all in the process of destroying America's values with my lack of personal accountability and Satan worship.

LOL.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-17-2009, 01:29 PM
I can still remember throwing a ball in practice, and I didn't know whether he was going to scream at me or say, 'Great play.' "

Jake, you fool. That's good coaching.

broncofan7
01-17-2009, 01:31 PM
Jake had his best seasons with KUBES. once Kubiak was gone, it went downhill because Shanahan was a bit of an a-hole to him.

Jake got a raw deal coming to Denver. he blew off a couple other franchises where being mediocre would have been an improvement and came to Denver where the bar for QB's is unimaginably high. He got this team to the AFCCG only to not be praised for getting us a playoff win and home Championship Game appearance but to have his replacement drafted.

How well do you think anyone can perform when the man who is there to replace you at a moments notice is sitting right next to you?

Also, fans knew what kind of QB he was before he came to Denver, and seemed shocked to find out that he would throw the occasional bad pass or make the occasional wtf was that play.


Jake Plummer was the 3rd best QB in Broncos history.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-17-2009, 01:33 PM
I'm guessing the over/under for this particular Jake/Shanahan thread is 6 pages...

Hmm, ill take the under. Someone will get distracted by the "oh no, we hired the wrong defensive quality control coach" thread

Fusionfrontman
01-17-2009, 02:10 PM
Did like him then, even though I knew it was time for Cutler to step in, and I still like him now. The dude is a REAL person, unlike a lot of famous people/athletes

Blart
01-17-2009, 02:19 PM
Jake looked much better with Kubiak. He and Shanahan weren't meant to be.

titan
01-17-2009, 02:28 PM
I thought Jake got unfairly blamed for alot of the AFC Championship loss vs Pittsburgh - defense was the main problem in that game (putting the Broncos in a 24-3 hole). If we have any defense that day the Broncos win, Jake wins a Super Bowl with Shanahan two weeks later, and we never see a story like this. Jake did alot of good things in Denver.

I did not think Jake handled the whole Cutler situation very well. When a team has a chance to draft a franchise qb with the 11th pick you do it - no reflection on Jake. The next year with the Cutler around Jake didn't play as well - I think that was as much of a factor as Kubiak leaving.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 02:28 PM
Jake Plummer was the 3rd best QB in Broncos history.

Morton has a pretty legitimate claim to 3rd. Though so does Jake.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 02:33 PM
I thought Jake got unfairly blamed for alot of the AFC Championship loss vs Pittsburgh - defense was the main problem in that game (putting the Broncos in a 24-3 hole).


Jake turned the ball over twice to help Pittsburgh get off to a 24-3 start. The defense could have done a better job, but Jake put their backs to the wall from the get go. He was worthless in the playoffs.

It's a pretty pointless debate to get into, though - which was more worthless in the playoffs, Jake or the defense. It's like asking which tastes better, cow manure or horse manure. At the end of the day, Jake got liquidated and the defense got liquidated. Apparently there was enough blame to go around.

Fusionfrontman
01-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Stupid question...who is number 2? I love Cutler, but he has not done anything yet for us to place him in the top 3. For me it's Elway, Plummer, Morton. Cutler is on the top 5 by default due to lack of good QB's for us.
If anyone really is considering Cutler our 2nd best QB as of what they DID in their career, you guys are nuts. There is no doubt Cutler will be great for us, but to say that is a little bit reaching for the future when we are living in the present

Inkana7
01-17-2009, 02:35 PM
Jake turned the ball over twice to help Pittsburgh get off to a 24-3 start. The defense could have done a better job, but Jake put their backs to the wall from the get go. He was worthless in the playoffs.

It's a pretty pointless debate to get into, though - which was more worthless in the playoffs, Jake or the defense. It's like asking which tastes better, cow manure or horse manure. At the end of the day, Jake got liquidated and the defense got liquidated. Apparently there was enough blame to go around.

It was both. Jake had his turnovers and the Defense allowed something like 89% of Pittsburgh's 3rd downs to be converted.

But the defense was much more frustrating to watch. We'd get them in 3rd and 7 just about every series and they'd convert.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 02:35 PM
Stupid question...who is number 2? I love Cutler, but he has not done anything yet for us to place him in the top 3. For me it's Elway, Plummer, Morton. Cutler is on the top 5 by default due to lack of good QB's for us.
If anyone really is considering Cutler our 2nd best QB as of what they DID in their career, you guys are nuts. There is no doubt Cutler will be great for us, but to say that is a little bit reaching for the future when we are living in the present

Cutler already owns a yardage record. For his second year as a starter to own that record, that has to count for something.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 02:36 PM
But the defense was much more frustrating to watch.


Speak for yourself. Watching our offense go three and out and give up four turnovers - two of them in Pittsburgh territory - when we needed a score was plenty frustrating to watch. Pittsburgh doesn't get ahead 24-3 if our offense is controlling the ball and driving for scores.

All things considered, what we really needed was a running game worth a damn to help keep the defense off the field and the game out of Jake's hands. That single thing might have been the difference maker that day.

baja
01-17-2009, 02:39 PM
Jake turned the ball over twice to help Pittsburgh get off to a 24-3 start. The defense could have done a better job, but Jake put their backs to the wall from the get go. He was worthless in the playoffs.

It's a pretty pointless debate to get into, though - which was more worthless in the playoffs, Jake or the defense. <B> It's like asking which tastes better, cow manure or horse manure. </b> At the end of the day, Jake got liquidated and the defense got liquidated. Apparently there was enough blame to go around.

I can answer that, it's horse manure my a mile.

baja
01-17-2009, 02:44 PM
It was both. Jake had his turnovers and the Defense allowed something like 89% of Pittsburgh's 3rd downs to be converted.

But the defense was much more frustrating to watch.<b> We'd get them in 3rd and 7 just about every series and they'd convert.

Yep very frustrating...

bronco militia
01-17-2009, 02:53 PM
Eh, name me someone who has been fired from a job (which Plummer essentially was) who wouldn't crack a smile when finding out the dude who canned him had his head roll, too.

Jake wasn't fired, he quit

Popps
01-17-2009, 03:44 PM
I thought Jake got unfairly blamed for alot of the AFC Championship loss vs Pittsburgh - defense was the main problem in that game (putting the Broncos in a 24-3 hole).

You're correct.

Denver's D allowed scores on every single possession until half-time. Even when starting inside their own 20, Pitt sliced through our D like butter.

Conversely, Pitt's D was brutal, and forced a fumble with relentless pass-rush that helped put the game out of reach.

This notion that any turnover should equal an instant touchdown is a little silly. Anyone watch Baltimore play this year? See, when they turn the ball over.. they actually engage in a practice called "stopping the other team" or "holding them to a field goal."

-Pit's first drive - Started at their 20 - FG
-2nd drive - Started at Broncos 40, result of a sack and stripped ball by guess who... Joey Porter. (I love how people just refer to this play as a "fumble," as if no one influenced it.) The result, naturally the D can't hold them... and a TD.

Score now 10-0 Pittsburgh

So, we get the ball back and put together a 6 minute drive that keeps our D off the field. Result is a FG.

Score now 10-3.


(So, despite the dramatic talk of "fumbles," etc... we have a 10-3 score... all we need is the defense who just had almost 6 minutes to rest to come out and just make one stop, right?)

So, the kickoff has Pittsburgh starting at their own 20. Even held to a FG on this drive, the game is well within reach.

But, you guessed it...

Pitt gashes our defense for a 14 play drive covering 80 yards and eating up 7 more minutes, making the score 17-3, putting them in a position to tee off on defense and control the ball with the run.

17-3

Now, knowing that Pitt gets the ball first in the 2nd half and our defense literally will not be stopping Pitt all day, it's pass-only mode. Pitt tess off, Plummer makes a bad throw, and the ball is picked.

So, Pitt has the ball at the 40. Still, a defensive stop (god forbid)... some adjustments at half-time and could there still be some hope? Even hold them to a FG and all hope isn't lost... right?

Nope, with only 1:48 left, Pitt easily rams it up our defenses ass for the nail in the coffin score.

24-3 at the half.


Our formula for winning in 05 involved keeping games close and running the ball, as well as heavily relying on play-action. The key to this game was the long, painful 80 yard TD drive that our defense allowed when down only 10-3, and our offense had shown some ability to move the ball on the prior drive.

Down two scores and half-time (and a Pitt possession after half) looming... Pitt pinned their ears back, we were in pass-only mode... and the game was effectively over.


Plenty of blame to go around that day, but the defense was at the top of the list by a long-shot. As we've seen with Cutler lately... force a QB into throw-only situations against quality defenses and it's game-over.


This is why teams with real NFL defenses tend to still be playing this time of year, and Denver does not.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 03:50 PM
I can answer that, it's horse manure my a mile.

It looks like Popps agrees. ;D

Popps
01-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkana7
It was both. Jake had his turnovers and the Defense allowed something like 89% of Pittsburgh's 3rd downs to be converted.

But the defense was much more frustrating to watch. We'd get them in 3rd and 7 just about every series and they'd convert.


Yep very frustrating...


The good news is that our current defense can rarely ever even get a team to third down. They generally only need a play or two to advance 10 yards.

Bronco Bob
01-17-2009, 04:08 PM
I thought Jake got unfairly blamed for alot of the AFC Championship loss vs Pittsburgh - defense was the main problem in that game (putting the Broncos in a 24-3 hole). If we have any defense that day the Broncos win, Jake wins a Super Bowl with Shanahan two weeks later, and we never see a story like this. Jake did alot of good things in Denver.


Damn right. Everyone remembers the desperation passes Jake made that
got picked off. No one remembers all those 3rd and longs that Roethlisberger
easily converted and marched right down the field. If the defense could
have gotten off the field once and a while, then the offense wouldn't
have been under so much pressure to try to even up the score.
The whole thing went to hell early in the game when the Broncos
fumble recovery deep in Steelers territory was overturned and
the Steeler went on to score. I've always felt there was a let down
in the defense after that. I have this feeling if the Broncos
would have been allowed to keep the ball, they would have scored
and that momentum would have made the game a lot closer.

TDmvp
01-17-2009, 04:12 PM
It was both. Jake had his turnovers and the Defense allowed something like 89% of Pittsburgh's 3rd downs to be converted.

But the defense was much more frustrating to watch. We'd get them in 3rd and 7 just about every series and they'd convert.

yup .. I bet 10 times in that game we had them 3rd and 8 + and they got every one of them ...

Blart
01-17-2009, 04:26 PM
The 05 team is still one of my alltime favorites. Back when Jake was allowed to run wild, Rod Smith, Tatum Bell, AND THE MUSTACHE

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/53851213_917731c1f8_m.jpg

Jake was fun to watch. He'd scramble like crazy, make plays out of nothing, he was a wild man. Then he eventually looked like a wildman

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l216/dmothe30/plummerbeard.jpg

epicSocialism4tw
01-17-2009, 04:31 PM
Some people will look for any excuse to bag on Jake.

Dark Helmet
01-17-2009, 04:52 PM
<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> http://static.flickr.com/26/53851213_917731c1f8_m.jpg</v:shapetype>

http://www.petitiononline.com/Plummer/petition.html

frerottenextelway
01-17-2009, 05:38 PM
Not surprising from the quitter.

He wasn't capable of basic drop back passing, so people always used the word ''gamer'' or some other meaningless term to describe his play. How absurd. That's why he was junk until he met Shanahan who modified his offensive to hide how bad Plummer was at the basics of QB play.

His best year was p'bly 2005. But lets not forget we ran the ball for 2,500 yards that year and had a dominating defense. Like against the Jets when we forced 5 turnovers, pitched a shutout and ran for almost 200. It would've been hard for any QB to not have been successful with everything that was built around him. Later Jake. Good bye, and good riddance.

baja
01-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Wow! Three pages about,

Jake Plummer: Smiled When Shanny was Fired

frerottenextelway
01-17-2009, 05:47 PM
Wow! Three pages about,

Jake Plummer: Smiled When Shanny was Fired

Start a thread with ''What If Jay Smiled When Shanny Was Fired'' and you'd get 20. ;D

bombay
01-17-2009, 05:54 PM
Plummer didn't do or say anything out of line. He was asked a question and answered it in a reasonably honest manner, without piling on.

Rock Chalk
01-17-2009, 06:09 PM
Jake had his best seasons by far under Shanny....he should be able to recognize that all that minute preparation and practice is one of the main reasons why.

Jake should be above taking pot shots from Idaho.

Smoke your weed, bang your cheerleader wife, play some handball, and enjoy living the dream.

Jake had his best seasons under KUBIAK.

Atwater His Ass
01-17-2009, 06:24 PM
Guess what. Jake's allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else.

Orange_Beard
01-17-2009, 06:31 PM
I smiled when Jake was fired.

frerottenextelway
01-17-2009, 06:32 PM
Guess what. Jake's allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else.

Two way street. We're allowed to have an opinion of him as well.

Orange4Life
01-17-2009, 06:34 PM
In hindsight Shanny's fate was sealed when he drafted Jay. We had a great team in 05. Going into the 06 draft we had the ability to have a great draft. Instead of an impact player to put us over the top he decided to draft for the future. The vets had to be pissed off we had many quality older players that knew they wouldn't be around to reap the beniefits of Jay. Its no wonder Jake has a distaste for Shanny. Anyone one of us would be happy to see Shanny get the ax if we were in Jakes position.

I'm not saying it was the right or wrong decision. Both decisions have pros and cons. We would of been better off in 06 not drafting Jay. Today we are better off having Jay.

Orange_Beard
01-17-2009, 06:37 PM
In hindsight Shanny's fate was sealed when he drafted Jay. We had a great team in 05. Going into the 06 draft we had the ability to have a great draft. Instead of an impact player to put us over the top he decided to draft for the future. The vets had to be pissed off we had many quality older players that knew they wouldn't be around to reap the beniefits of Jay. Its no wonder Jake has a distaste for Shanny. Anyone one of us would be happy to see Shanny get the ax if we were in Jakes position.

I'm not saying it was the right or wrong decision. Both decisions have pros and cons. We would of been better off in 06 not drafting Jay. Today we are better off having Jay.

Calling the 05 team a "great" is silly.

epicSocialism4tw
01-17-2009, 06:43 PM
Jake had his best seasons under KUBIAK.

Yes.

Shanny had his best season (post dynasty) under JAKE.

Popps
01-17-2009, 07:24 PM
Calling the 05 team a "great" is silly.

Agree... though it was pretty good by modern era team standards. I think Pittsburgh was just a couple defensive players better than us that day. (Joey Porter, for one.... who basically turned the tide of the game single-handedly.)

A lot of people thought Shanahan rolled the dice by blowing that team up (as people put it) and not instead trying to add a couple of defensive weapons to get us over the hump.

Three years later, Shanahan lost his job... and the team is considerably worse.

So, his gamble failed.

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 08:08 PM
Jake had his best seasons under KUBIAK.

I did not realize he played for the Texans.

frerottenextelway
01-17-2009, 08:25 PM
Agree... though it was pretty good by modern era team standards. I think Pittsburgh was just a couple defensive players better than us that day. (Joey Porter, for one.... who basically turned the tide of the game single-handedly.)

A lot of people thought Shanahan rolled the dice by blowing that team up (as people put it) and not instead trying to add a couple of defensive weapons to get us over the hump.

Three years later, Shanahan lost his job... and the team is considerably worse.

So, his gamble failed.

well, i think we were in for a down swing after that regardless, i think we're clearly in postion for an upswing now.

our offense was soley based on misdirection with Jake, which wasn't going to last in the National Football League (tm shanahan) and our best offensive player rod smith was nearing the end which couldn't be stopped.

now, we have the youngest team in the league with 4 players that have hof potential on O who haven't passed age 25 yet along with many other that are young and talented.

i think hindsight shows that losing Coyer was clearly a mistake though, and the poor drafts from the early 2000's are showing their results now.

Willynowei
01-17-2009, 08:25 PM
What a bitch.

Did he just complain about getting yelled at?

What a pussy. What a waste of Life.

Shanny was easy on Cutler because Cutler was hard on himself.

There are people who would be willing to do anything to win, go to any length, tear down any wall, Jake was not that type. Cutler seems to have that fire in him.

I'm glad Jakes out of the NFL, he's not cut out to be a competitor.

atomicbloke
01-17-2009, 08:31 PM
Agree... though it was pretty good by modern era team standards. I think Pittsburgh was just a couple defensive players better than us that day. (Joey Porter, for one.... who basically turned the tide of the game single-handedly.)

A lot of people thought Shanahan rolled the dice by blowing that team up (as people put it) and not instead trying to add a couple of defensive weapons to get us over the hump.

Three years later, Shanahan lost his job... and the team is considerably worse.

So, his gamble failed.

Nailed it right there.

In hindsight, I think Shanny was caught between blowing up the team and rebuilding and consolidating a good team. He didn't seem fully committed to either.

If he was infact blowing up the team and looking to the future, then I don't see how signing Travis Henry, Simeon Rice, Sam Adams, trading for Javon fit in with that.

And if in fact he wanted to consolidate, he could have suplemented the 2005 AFCCG team with 2 stud DE's in the first round of the 2006 draft.

In the end he became a victim of his own standards of rebuilding as well fielding a competitive team. He ended up 24-24 in the process, which was neither. Now would anyone here have preferred 4-12 and 5-11 seasons in 2006 and 2007 if it resulted in a 13-3 season in 2008? I guess as a fan base we were too spoiled would not allow that. And Shanny himself wouldn't allow that. Our worst season during the rebuild was 7-9, which for most teams would be 4-12 or so.

Miss I.
01-17-2009, 08:35 PM
Can I ask a question, did anyone else note that an article primarily about the Cards and essentially an AZ Jake fan's love letter to Jake is now somehow made about the Broncos? Who cares. this would only be controversy if Jay made negative statements about Shanny. Why is Jake still taking up major thread titles years after he quit?

SouthStndJunkie
01-17-2009, 08:38 PM
Why is Jake still taking up major thread titles years after he quit?

Because he can.

Cito Pelon
01-17-2009, 08:41 PM
People forget why Plummer came here in the first place - because Shanny's Griese experiment failed.

I think Griese was paid more for not being here than Plummer was paid for Qb'ing the team. Shanny sure f'd up that whole "Qb thing". Griese was given that big contract, what was it 6 yrs/36 million? Had to cut him after 2 years into the contract?

Meck77
01-17-2009, 08:41 PM
Yeah what a bleak time in Broncos history. It was miserable watching the team win games and going to playoffs on a regular basis. Who did those aholes think they were getting to the AFC Championship game!

Victor
01-17-2009, 08:54 PM
Yeah what a bleak time in Broncos history. It was miserable watching the team win games and going to playoffs on a regular basis. Who did those aholes think they were getting to the AFC Championship game!

QFT...winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Bronco Bob
01-17-2009, 09:12 PM
What a b****.

Did he just complain about getting yelled at?

What a p***Y. What a waste of Life.

Shanny was easy on Cutler because Cutler was hard on himself.

There are people who would be willing to do anything to win, go to any length, tear down any wall, Jake was not that type. Cutler seems to have that fire in him.

I'm glad Jakes out of the NFL, he's not cut out to be a competitor.

Sounds to me more like he was complaining about Shanahan being inconsistent.
Never knew what to expect from the guy. One minute be cheering you
on, next minute bite your head off.

16-JakE-16
01-17-2009, 10:26 PM
But being one of the most erratic QB's in league history will make people second guess you, Jake.

See, I don't agree with that at all. I don't feel any more comfortable with Jay slinging the ball all over the place thinking he's the second coming of Brett Favre. Maybe Jake was erratic in Arizona, but it's a given that those teams were awful and he still managed to defeat a 90s Cowboys' team in the playoffs.

~Crash~
01-17-2009, 10:40 PM
"But I have to admit, I had a smile on my face when I heard he was fired.

well I bet coach will be coaching on the sidelines this year so he smiles are wasted ! and I use to like the putz no more to hell with the prick

FireFly
01-17-2009, 10:49 PM
If Plummer were to have called this reporter up and said "Hey, want a juicy quote?" then he'd be a punk. Somehow I get the vision that Plummer was just minding his own business when someone called him up, and he told him exactly what he felt. I've got nothing but respect for that.

That's exactly how I think it would have fallen out. Shanny made up his mind about Plummer and he never had a chance. I always admired the way he called a spade a spade. He was true to himself and recognised that in the end, football is a game.

FireFly
01-17-2009, 10:54 PM
I also have to admit, if I was fired from my job and I felt that the circumstances around my dismissal were unfair I be cheering if my boss got canned.

If I felt like I was doing a good job, and had someone promoted ahead of me just because the boss didn't like me I'd take a dislike to the guy as well. I'm not saying thats what happened, but I bet it seemed a little like that in Plummer's mind.

Neither Shanny or Plummer are here anymore, they are just as entitled to have opinions about anything as we are on this board or anywhere else in life.

Archer81
01-17-2009, 10:56 PM
haha. Jake is awesome. He shouldnt be taking shots, Id agree there.

Jake should not have been benched, Im still angry about that.

Jake was playing like a rookie. We didnt lose anything by putting an actual rookie in. His play dictated him being sat.


:Broncos:

~Crash~
01-17-2009, 10:58 PM
grow a beard and move in a cave **** head

frerottenextelway
01-18-2009, 12:07 AM
See, I don't agree with that at all. I don't feel any more comfortable with Jay slinging the ball all over the place thinking he's the second coming of Brett Favre. Maybe Jake was erratic in Arizona, but it's a given that those teams were awful and he still managed to defeat a 90s Cowboys' team in the playoffs.

Our offense w/ Jake was mostly misdirection where he had 2 receivers and 1/3 of the field to work with. Atleast it was that way in 2005. He did that very well with that. In 2006 we largely ditched that (out of necessity) and it speaks for itself.

When the league caught up with that, or when it was 3rd and 10ish where that kind of play was irrelevant, we had no chance. Put Plummer on the 2008 Broncos, and we may not win 1 game. We relied on being able to convert the 3rd and 7+ this year w/ dropback passing and outscoring the opponent.

24champ
01-18-2009, 12:32 AM
Jake was playing like a rookie. We didnt lose anything by putting an actual rookie in. His play dictated him being sat.


:Broncos:

Yeah we did lose something, we lost the locker room. It got split the second Jay was named the starter.

cutthemdown
01-18-2009, 12:40 AM
Plummer had his shot in the AFC championship game and played like crapola. It was obvious that he didn't have what it took as passer to play QB for Broncos. He had the leadership and the heart but just wasn't very good at throwing the ball. He wasn't consistent and was too short to see the field good. Broncos made right decision moving on, but maybe letting Jake play out yr would have been ineteresting.

Funny though I though Plummer said he didn't follow football and could care less? Now he's so into it he knows the offseason news? What is handball slow right now? No mountains to climb, no fish to catch?

Bronco Bob
01-18-2009, 01:19 AM
Plummer had his shot in the AFC championship game and played like crapola. It was obvious that he didn't have what it took as passer to play QB for Broncos. He had the leadership and the heart but just wasn't very good at throwing the ball. He wasn't consistent and was too short to see the field good. Broncos made right decision moving on, but maybe letting Jake play out yr would have been ineteresting.

Funny though I though Plummer said he didn't follow football and could care less? Now he's so into it he knows the offseason news? What is handball slow right now? No mountains to climb, no fish to catch?

Well, the Cardinals are in the play-offs, and he was an ASU star, so
I'd say he probably has a little bit of interest in Arizona and the Cardinals.

(Which if you read it, was mostly what the article was about.)

Also apparently handball isn't that slow, considering Plummer is playing in
a handball tournament in Seattle this weekend.

frerottenextelway
01-18-2009, 01:31 AM
Will Jake go into the HOF as a Bronco or Cardinal?

listopencil
01-18-2009, 04:05 AM
BTW....

I farted when Aslie Lelie was drafted.

Make of it what you will.

Carry on.

ShutDownPoster
01-18-2009, 04:20 AM
I smiled to Jake...I smiled for both of us. Jake was ok in my book... the Tillman death really messed him up.

No doubt. But really what is your stand on it? Do you make this statment as just a mere explanation for his performence, or do you mean to say he gets somewhat of a 'pass'? Reason why I'm curiosu is coz it would bring up a whole other can of worms, like how Javon was 'really messed' up after the Dwill incident.

BioCore
01-18-2009, 05:21 AM
Not the classiest thing Plummer could have said but as usual you always will get the truth out of him and you have to respect that

Muddled
01-18-2009, 06:44 AM
How well do you think anyone can perform when the man who is there to replace you at a moments notice is sitting right next to you?



Ehh, I seem to remember a Brees fellow doing ok.

Anyways, don't get the fuzz, Jake was just being honest, not as if there were any cheapshots there.

chex
01-18-2009, 07:30 AM
Cutler already owns a yardage record. For his second year as a starter to own that record, that has to count for something.

*sigh*

I guess Cutler's starting record of 17-20 doesn't count. He has some passing record, so that automatically qualifies him as the second best in franchise history. Hey, as long as he can fill up a stat sheet and help your fantasy team win, who cares what the AFC West standings say.

Meck77
01-18-2009, 07:43 AM
Yeah we did lose something, we lost the locker room. It got split the second Jay was named the starter.

Correct.

*sigh*

I guess Cutler's starting record of 17-20 doesn't count. He has some passing record, so that automatically qualifies him as the second best in franchise history. Hey, as long as he can fill up a stat sheet and help your fantasy team win, who cares what the AFC West standings say.

The honeymoon period for Cutler is ending with the firing of Shanny. The heat is now on Jay's shoulder to carry. That's just the way it is. Yardage stats won't go very far with Bowlen. You see Bowlen has this idea that we have to make the playoffs in order to get to the SB. He kinda mentioned that is the goal of the Broncos unlike some who view the team in terms of fantasy football.

db56
01-18-2009, 08:38 AM
Cant blame Jake at all for smiling, its safe to say that Shanahan could be an egotistical ass and I'm sure Jake knows this better than anyone. I liked Jake when he was a Bronco and in know way am I blaming the 05 season on him, u win as a team and lose as a team, including the coaches.

When Jake came to Denver, he was IMO starting his career all over again. Winning mentalities are coached in to everyone and Jake is no exception. He led us to the AFC championship game and we lost, most fans would be happy about that. The team had a core to build on, but Shanny decided to go in a different direction and we havent made the playoffs since, so many variables.

IMO, Jake is a classy dude for not going to the media and spilling his guts about everything that pissed him off, he handled it like a man and went on about his business and for that he has my respect.

Killericon
01-18-2009, 09:06 AM
*sigh*

I guess Cutler's starting record of 17-20 doesn't count. He has some passing record, so that automatically qualifies him as the second best in franchise history. Hey, as long as he can fill up a stat sheet and help your fantasy team win, who cares what the AFC West standings say.

Should Cutler have been playing DE?

I think he's been doing a pretty great job trying to get us wins.

chex
01-18-2009, 09:13 AM
Should Cutler have been playing DE?

I think he's been doing a pretty great job trying to get us wins.

Look, i'm not going to get into a whole debate about it, but at 17-20, there is no way he's the 2nd best QB in franchise history. More people remember great QB's for their wins. No one here can tell me without looking it up what Roethlisberger's career high in passing yards is, but everyone knows he's a Super Bowl Champion. Wins are what is important. Not passing yards. When Cutler wins a playoff game or two, then maybe we can start discussing his place among the all time greats. Stats are great for your ESPN league, thats it.

DBBBSBS
01-18-2009, 10:34 AM
In my view last 10 yrs of brett favre career and plummer's NFL career were equal. You never knew when they will play good or bad(more like worse). They make some great plays and after a few it will be the bone head play that can sink your team.

But i wonder if shanny would have screamed the same way at brett and second guessed him had he come to denver around say 2003.

Northman
01-18-2009, 10:40 AM
In my view last 10 yrs of brett favre career and plummer's NFL career were equal. You never knew when they will play good or bad(more like worse). They make some great plays and after a few it will be the bone head play that can sink your team.

But i wonder if shanny would have screamed the same way at brett and second guessed him had he come to denver around say 2003.


Probably not, but by 03' Favre had already accomplished more than Jake ever did by that time.

DBBBSBS
01-18-2009, 10:49 AM
Probably not, but by 03' Favre had already accomplished more than Jake ever did by that time.

True, But what i meant to say was.. plummer and favre both were making too many bad plays at that point. I do have respect for favre, but from 2000 he has been very very bad. I wonder if he would listen to a qb coach or even head coach. that is what i wondered watching him play.

But i guess he did not, after 4th game in jets uniform.

anyway i dont care about favre, plummer or shanny... i care for who is in charge of the broncos and i am a bronco.. I dont want to look back at the past. If denver can show me something positive next season, that is all i care about. These other names are all history, Thanks for the 2 championships that shanny got us.. but i want Josh to get us there to the promise land now. If he is not the one and he improves this team over the next few years.. i am ready to wait. But i want to see denver in superbowl in the next 5 yrs.

Archer81
01-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Yeah we did lose something, we lost the locker room. It got split the second Jay was named the starter.


Oh yeah, because the locker room was such a tight unit before...


:Broncos:

Northman
01-18-2009, 11:56 AM
True, But what i meant to say was.. plummer and favre both were making too many bad plays at that point. I do have respect for favre, but from 2000 he has been very very bad. I wonder if he would listen to a qb coach or even head coach. that is what i wondered watching him play.

But i guess he did not, after 4th game in jets uniform.

anyway i dont care about favre, plummer or shanny... i care for who is in charge of the broncos and i am a bronco.. I dont want to look back at the past. If denver can show me something positive next season, that is all i care about. These other names are all history, Thanks for the 2 championships that shanny got us.. but i want Josh to get us there to the promise land now. If he is not the one and he improves this team over the next few years.. i am ready to wait. But i want to see denver in superbowl in the next 5 yrs.


True enough. But as a followup to your statement or question i guess it depends on Favre's work ethic. I have no idea if Bret takes time to study the playbook or do the film work any given week. That was one of Jake's downfalls is that he never wanted to put in the time so whether or not Bret would of listened to Shanahan i dont know.

SouthStndJunkie
01-18-2009, 12:01 PM
I'm guessing the over/under for this particular Jake/Shanahan thread is 6 pages...

I will take the over.

Gort
01-18-2009, 12:03 PM
Pittsburgh doesn't get ahead 24-3 if our offense is controlling the ball and driving for scores.

this is correct. i'm so sick of this revisionist BS about the defense losing that game. the offense and JAKE THE MISTAKE lost that game in the first half.

here are the Broncos drives in the first half.

7 plays - punt
3 plays - fumble
12 plays - FG
1 play - INT
2 plays - clock expired

that's 2 turnovers and settling for a FG instead of a TD on their only drive of any susbtance.

meanwhile, the steelers first 4 drives produced FG, TD, TD, TD.

the defense was atrocious on 3rd down, but the Broncos under Shanny were an offensive-minded team. you can't run 25 plays in the first half and only have 1 FG to show for it and expect to win... ever.

if we were the Ravens and had given up 4 scores on 4 drives, then you could rightfully call out the defense. but that Broncos team had a suspect defense to start with and we all knew it.

Inkana7
01-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Revisionist BS? Are you serious? The defense was atrocious. If they had stopped more than 1 3rd down the entire half the offense would have had more time, and not to mention field position, to work with.

HEAV
01-18-2009, 12:35 PM
No doubt. But really what is your stand on it? Do you make this statment as just a mere explanation for his performence, or do you mean to say he gets somewhat of a 'pass'? Reason why I'm curiosu is coz it would bring up a whole other can of worms, like how Javon was 'really messed' up after the Dwill incident.


I say it becuase Jake was a different person after the news of Tillman death. Trying to compare the D-Will murder and Javon response to Jake and Pat is apples and tomatoes.

Jake met Pat at Arizona State, their friendship started there and it only grew stronger when both where the Cardinals. Just look at the action Jake took to honor Pat. There was the helmet decal issue, the long hair and Beard, he's spoken about their frendship many times.

Javon was invovled in a violent act and lost a person he was close with, and had to see it happen infront of him.

But lets not compare the death's or the level of friendship each had.

Let's compare the individuals and what they really are made of and how they handle themselves.

Look at Javon's actions since the murder and look at Jakes.

Javon is about Javon, always has been and sadly always will be.

Jake was heartbroken, not just in losing his friend, but how his country handles the death of his friend.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jcqLlT44rR8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jcqLlT44rR8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>




------

As far as a football aspect... the Broncos where 7-4 with Jake at the helm in 2006. The team finished 9-7 under Jay-C and missed the playoffs. So maybe the issue wasn't the QB.

Maybe the real issue was the man coaching. Three years later...

HEAV
01-18-2009, 12:41 PM
this is correct. i'm so sick of this revisionist BS about the defense losing that game. the offense and JAKE THE MISTAKE lost that game in the first half.

here are the Broncos drives in the first half.

7 plays - punt
3 plays - fumble
12 plays - FG
1 play - INT
2 plays - clock expired

that's 2 turnovers and settling for a FG instead of a TD on their only drive of any susbtance.

meanwhile, the steelers first 4 drives produced FG, TD, TD, TD.

the defense was atrocious on 3rd down, but the Broncos under Shanny were an offensive-minded team. you can't run 25 plays in the first half and only have 1 FG to show for it and expect to win... ever.

if we were the Ravens and had given up 4 scores on 4 drives, then you could rightfully call out the defense. but that Broncos team had a suspect defense to start with and we all knew it.


Hey asshat read before you hit submit.

Also go back at look at the tape of that game. Lepsis was owned by Joey Porter the entire game.

Yet the mastermind never adjusted his protection scheme. Givign Lepsis a blocking TE would have help. Or trying a screen pass or draw play to take advantage of an agreesive Steelers defense would have done wonders.


Shanny lost that AFC Championship. One reason why Shanny lost his job.

mosca
01-18-2009, 01:19 PM
this is correct. i'm so sick of this revisionist BS about the defense losing that game. the offense and JAKE THE MISTAKE lost that game in the first half.

here are the Broncos drives in the first half.

7 plays - punt
3 plays - fumble
12 plays - FG
1 play - INT
2 plays - clock expired

that's 2 turnovers and settling for a FG instead of a TD on their only drive of any susbtance.

meanwhile, the steelers first 4 drives produced FG, TD, TD, TD.

the defense was atrocious on 3rd down, but the Broncos under Shanny were an offensive-minded team. you can't run 25 plays in the first half and only have 1 FG to show for it and expect to win... ever.

if we were the Ravens and had given up 4 scores on 4 drives, then you could rightfully call out the defense. but that Broncos team had a suspect defense to start with and we all knew it.
Revisionist my ass. I remember that game clearly. The Broncos offense played poorly, but the defense was far worse. If we had held them to 14 points or so the first half we might have had a chance, but as you said, the D was -atrocious- on 3rd down.

Just because the D was already suspect doesn't give it a free pass.

Taco John
01-18-2009, 01:29 PM
If we had held them to 14 points or so the first half we might have had a chance...


Yeah, then the score would have only been 14-3 in the first half!

What a great point!

Meck77
01-18-2009, 01:43 PM
That 2005 team is the only real bright spot since the SBs. Twist it, revise it, distort the facts. Doesn't matter. That team including Jake almost made the SB. It amazes me to see "Broncos fans" cry about that team considering our streak of not making the playoffs year after year since then.

Killericon
01-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Ugh. I hate debates like this.

Neither the offense or the defense played good. At all. It doesn't have to be one or the other, we just laid an egg on both sides of the ball.

That 2005 team is the only real bright spot since the SBs. Twist it, revise it, distort the facts. Doesn't matter. That team including Jake almost made the SB. It amazes me to see "Broncos fans" cry about that team considering our streak of not making the playoffs year after year since then.

The 2005 season NEVER gets enough credit around here. It's either only mentioned as "Well, they DIDN'T beat the Steelers" or they're mentioned as "one playoff win in a decade". Like it was the same as a wild card round win or something. We ended the Patriots' unbeaten in the playoffs streak.

bpc
01-18-2009, 02:12 PM
We had a good team that year but Plummer was known for doing less (draw on 3rd and 6 for instance) than for what he did do. I think this was the year that Plummer kind of checked out because Shanahan mandated that JP limit the TO's from the previous year and basically took the ball out of his hands.

The team was built like a house made of cards. Shaky defensive talent that couldn't generate a front four pass rush and a hot or cold QB with the propensity to choke in the clutch.

Spare me all this BS about Cutler having a losing record. JP had twice the team Cutler has been equipped with. JP had Wilson leading the defense and Cutler has had DJ Williams in that position. Not even close to being even. Bottom line football is a team game. Cutler has had to carry the Broncos and given, sometimes that weight has been too much for a 2nd year starter. He has in the period shown just as much plus much more vs. what Jake every did.

I'm not going to bash Jake Plummer but Cutler hasn't thrown any stupid left handed interceptions. We all knew what Jake was from his very first game with Denver: A fiery guy who tries to make a lot of plays with minimal talent and intelligence.

Natedog24
01-18-2009, 02:33 PM
I will take the over.

Bold prediction ;D

fontaine
01-18-2009, 02:35 PM
I feel for Jake.

It must be tough on him sitting at home when he could still be living his dream in the NFL and throwing left handed interceptions.

Miss I.
01-18-2009, 02:46 PM
Hey given how interesting thread has become based simply on Jake smiling, what kind of thread do you all think we could come up with if we discussed Jake having a bowel movement, snoring or doing his cheerleader wife. Just curious, I mean if his smile is such a powerful thread starter, my goodness this guy has some serious mojo. :)

fontaine
01-18-2009, 02:50 PM
Hey given how interesting thread has become based simply on Jake smiling, what kind of thread do you all think we could come up with if we discussed Jake having a bowel movement, snoring or doing his cheerleader wife. Just curious, I mean if his smile is such a powerful thread starter, my goodness this guy has some serious mojo. :)


You're confused. This thread is as much about MikeShanahan-Offense-vs-Defense-Popps-vs-TacoJohn than anything else.

Jake is just an afterthought, like he was when was on the field throwing interceptions.

Popps
01-18-2009, 03:02 PM
Revisionist my ass. I remember that game clearly. The Broncos offense played poorly, but the defense was far worse. If we had held them to 14 points or so the first half we might have had a chance, but as you said, the D was -atrocious- on 3rd down.

Just because the D was already suspect doesn't give it a free pass.

Again, even when our offense put together a long drive, gave our D a rest and brought the game within 7 again... the defense came right out and laid down for a 7 minute, 80 yard drive that allowed Pitt to start teeing off.

Again, we were beat by a better team that day... a team with a real running game and a real defense. Ben Rothlisberger didn't beat us. He played well, but our own lack of a defense killed us.

Conversely, Pitt's D forced a fumble early in the game that also helped their cause.

Did Jake and the offense play well? No, but it wouldn't have mattered. Our defense melted down in a way we hadn't seen since.... well, the last time they melted down to the tune of a first-half playoff record in Indy.

To say Jake didn't play well is certainly fair. To "blame" him for the game in the face of an almost unprecedented defensive collapse is criminally stupid.

TDmvp
01-18-2009, 03:05 PM
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9463/sksvj8.gif

mosca
01-18-2009, 03:09 PM
Yeah, then the score would have only been 14-3 in the first half!

What a great point!
Yeah - simple logic. Beats being down 24-3 and prevents the opposing team from playing prevent D.
Offense on that day - crappy.
Defense on that day - horrendous.

24champ
01-18-2009, 03:12 PM
Oh yeah, because the locker room was such a tight unit before...


:Broncos:

It was...it went to a AFCCG recently and was 7-4 at the time Plummer got yanked. I don't think it's a mere coincidence everything unraveled from there. Shanny put a ROOKIE QB like Cutler in the middle of a playoff run and that in effect lost the locker room... mainly the vets.

Anybody that assumes that the locker room was hunky doory after the change is kidding themselves.

24champ
01-18-2009, 03:14 PM
Our defense melted down in a way we hadn't seen since.... well, the last time they melted down to the tune of a first-half playoff record in Indy.



Yep I miss those Coyer defenses....not.

Atlas
01-18-2009, 03:14 PM
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/01/16/20090116spt-bickley.html


After his time in Arizona was done, Plummer made a choice that would change his life. He decided against Chicago, where the bar for quarterbacks was set wonderfully low. He signed with Denver, where the shadow of John Elway swallows all.

Plummer has no regrets. He loved the city, the people and the fervor for football in Denver. But when offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak left to coach the Texans, everything changed. Plummer and coach Mike Shanahan weren't exactly peanut butter and bananas, and Plummer was eventually benched in favor of rookie Jay Cutler.

In the end, Plummer went from a culture of failure to a city with impossible standards. The death of Tillman affected him profoundly, planting seeds of rebellion. And when it all hit the wall in Denver, he walked out on the game and the people who had crushed his love for football.

"Shanahan was a great coach, to a certain level," Plummer said. "But I have to admit, I had a smile on my face when I heard he was fired. Not that it did me any good.

"I loved going out and competing, but it's tough when you're constantly second-guessed. I can still remember throwing a ball in practice, and I didn't know whether he was going to scream at me or say, 'Great play.' "


Well, I hope Plummer enjoyed this. Shanny will land on his feet I'm sure. If I was Shanahan I would take a year off on Bowlen's dime. He can have his pick of jobs next year.

Popps
01-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Again... the real turning point that day is not Joey Porter's forced fumble on Plummer. That was big, but wasn't a back-breaker. In fact, we came out and put together a long drive to put some points on the board and had settled things down.

The turning point was after that... after getting a little momentum going and bringing the game within a score, the D lays directly down again. 80 yard TD drive by Pitt, and the tone was officially set for the day. 17-3, our D wasn't going to stop anyone and we were in pass-only mode, a terrible place to be against a team with a great D and great running game.

Cutler would have lost that game and even Elway wouldn't likely have won it. Any doubters can look to the Jagwads game from 96 for confirmation of what I'm talking about. Even great QBs can't overcome defensive melt-downs, and what we did against Pittsburgh was nothing short of a melt-down.

SureShot
01-18-2009, 03:33 PM
Thats funny I smiled when Plummer was fired.

UberBroncoMan
01-18-2009, 03:57 PM
shanny always came down hard on plummer and he babies cutler. I'm glad he is gone too.

That actually is a very accurate statement... hard to blame Jake for not liking the guy, when he was treated poorly. Still, I'd be above taking cheap-shots.

lostknight
01-18-2009, 04:04 PM
I thought Jake got unfairly blamed for alot of the AFC Championship loss vs Pittsburgh - defense was the main problem in that game (putting the Broncos in a 24-3 hole). If we have any defense that day the Broncos win, Jake wins a Super Bowl with Shanahan two weeks later, and we never see a story like this. Jake did alot of good things in Denver.

I did not think Jake handled the whole Cutler situation very well. When a team has a chance to draft a franchise qb with the 11th pick you do it - no reflection on Jake. The next year with the Cutler around Jake didn't play as well - I think that was as much of a factor as Kubiak leaving.

No, sorry I was at that game. I remember Jake throwing away the game.

I was jazzed for the next season - it was a chance to trade Jake for something good. Instead he folded like a house of cards that season. It was devestating. We would have been much better off if Jake had managed to hold it together a bit longer, given Jay more time to mature, and increased his trade value.

At the end of the day Jake played for Jake. Not for the win. Great players (of which I don't think Jay is yet) play for the win. As they mature, then they understand that they need the team to win the big game.

mosca
01-18-2009, 05:05 PM
No, sorry I was at that game. I remember Jake throwing away the game.
You musta had a few too many beers and not noticed the D playing even worse than Plummer did that game.

I was jazzed for the next season - it was a chance to trade Jake for something good. Instead he folded like a house of cards that season. It was devestating. We would have been much better off if Jake had managed to hold it together a bit longer, given Jay more time to mature, and increased his trade value.

Yup. Too bad he folded and the team only went 7-4 before he was benched. It was his fault we only went 2-4 under Cutler the rest of the year and missed the playoffs.

Archer81
01-18-2009, 06:05 PM
It was...it went to a AFCCG recently and was 7-4 at the time Plummer got yanked. I don't think it's a mere coincidence everything unraveled from there. Shanny put a ROOKIE QB like Cutler in the middle of a playoff run and that in effect lost the locker room... mainly the vets.

Anybody that assumes that the locker room was hunky doory after the change is kidding themselves.


Anyone assuming it was perfectly in sync before is delusional. Plummer was playing like a rookie. Putting a rookie in didnt hurt the offense, which actually improved the last half of the season. Also didnt help that the defense, true to form, collapsed down the stretch.

:Broncos:

broncogary
01-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Yup. Too bad he folded and the team only went 7-4 before he was benched. It was his fault we only went 2-4 under Cutler the rest of the year and missed the playoffs.

Well, it must be pointed out that Jake was a tackling machine (a la DJ Williams) before Cutler took over for him. ;D

Gort
01-18-2009, 06:07 PM
bite me.

we all knew that the defense was not going to win that game. the only hope was for the offense to keep pace by scoring. they didn't. that's why they lost. sure the defense sucked, but that's not the reason they lost. they lost because the offense was horrible in the first half.

i'm sick of plummer homers excusing him from blame in that game. the loss falls on his shoulders.

if you want to blame shanny too, then that's fine.

but don't try to blame defense for the loss. that's like blaming a dog for barking. we all knew that defense was suspect going into the game.

Hey asshat read before you hit submit.

Bronx33
01-18-2009, 06:13 PM
The defense did it's far share of nothing to stop the steelers but it's was jakes job to score points and sadly he failed like he did most every big game he was in.

baja
01-18-2009, 06:19 PM
bite me.

we all knew that the defense was not going to win that game. the only hope was for the offense to keep pace by scoring. they didn't. that's why they lost. sure the defense sucked, but that's not the reason they lost. they lost because the offense was horrible in the first half.

i'm sick of plummer homers excusing him from blame in that game. the loss falls on his shoulders.

if you want to blame shanny too, then that's fine.

but don't try to blame defense for the loss. that's like blaming a dog for barking. we all knew that defense was suspect going into the game.

OH I GET IT BECAUSE WE KNEW THE DEFENSE SUCKED THAT GIVES THE DEFENSE ABSOLUTION OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR LOSING THE GAME. STERLING ANALYSIS WATSON.

Bronx33
01-18-2009, 06:22 PM
OH I GET IT BECAUSE WE KNEW THE DEFENSE SUCKED THAT GIVES THE DEFENSE ABSOLUTION OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR LOSING THE GAME. STERLING ANALYSIS Watson.


And all capitals! hes serious!

baja
01-18-2009, 06:28 PM
And all capitals! hes serious!

No, lazy

24champ
01-18-2009, 06:29 PM
Anyone assuming it was perfectly in sync before is delusional. Plummer was playing like a rookie. Putting a rookie in didnt hurt the offense, which actually improved the last half of the season. Also didnt help that the defense, true to form, collapsed down the stretch.

:Broncos:

A quarterback isn't just about having an arm...it's also about leadership. Whether you like it or not, Plummer was well liked in the locker room.

The record speaks for itself. Going from a AFCCG appearance and 7-4 to missing the playoffs by inserting a rookie QB for a playoff run wasn't the right move. Jay didn't look ready in the Seattle game, SD game, and SF game. He showed promise, but he wasn't ready to be thrown into the fire with 5 games left and expectations were that he was to be the savior of the team that season. That I thought was unfair, I would have rather have seen Plummer take it the rest of the season.

baja
01-18-2009, 06:32 PM
A quarterback isn't just about having an arm...it's also about leadership. Whether you like it or not, Plummer was well liked in the locker room.

The record speaks for itself. Going from a AFCCG appearance and 7-4 and inserting a rookie QB for a playoff run wasn't the right move. Jay didn't look ready in the Seattle game, SD game, and SF game. He showed promise, but he wasn't ready to be thrown into the fire with 5 games left and expectations were that he was to be the savior of the team that season. That I thought was unfair, I would have rather have seen Plummer take it the rest of the season.

If Jake Had played like he did the year before we would not haave seen Jay atleast until next season. It was Jake's play that put Jay Cutler on the field.

Gort
01-18-2009, 06:32 PM
OH I GET IT BECAUSE WE KNEW THE DEFENSE SUCKED THAT GIVES THE DEFENSE ABSOLUTION OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR LOSING THE GAME. STERLING ANALYSIS Watson.

no. but if you'll recall, we were happy that we got to play Pittsburgh because we were sure that Indy or Cincinnati would shred the Broncos defense in the playoffs. the defense was not going to stop a quality passing team. all that we could hope for was to hold a team to 21-24 points and have our offense score more points. that was the game plan. the only problem is that Plummer couldn't get us anywhere near the endzone. 24-3 at the half meant GAME OVER. if you think the defense lost that game, then you don't remember how suspect that defense was against the passing game. the Steelers many 3rd down conversions were on passing plays.

24champ
01-18-2009, 06:39 PM
If Jake Had played like he did the year before we would not haave seen Jay atleast until next season. It was Jake's play that put Jay Cutler on the field.

That's the reason for it but after the QB change the teams play went downhill as well. I still think it would have served the team better to let Jake play the rest of the season instead of a rookie that a lot of the vets didn't trust.

baja
01-18-2009, 06:42 PM
no. but if you'll recall, we were happy that we got to play Pittsburgh because we were sure that Indy or Cincinnati would shred the Broncos defense in the playoffs. the defense was not going to stop a quality passing team. all that we could hope for was to hold a team to 21-24 points and have our offense score more points. that was the game plan. the only problem is that Plummer couldn't get us anywhere near the endzone. 24-3 at the half meant GAME OVER. if you think the defense lost that game, then you don't remember how suspect that defense was against the passing game. the Steelers many 3rd down conversions were on passing plays.

I don't remember but I bet the TOP was very lop sided in favor of Pitt. Truthfully the loss was a team effort but when the opponent scores on almost every possession you gotta give the D some credit.

Archer81
01-18-2009, 06:44 PM
That's the reason for it but after the QB change the teams play went downhill as well. I still think it would have served the team better to let Jake play the rest of the season instead of a rookie that a lot of the vets didn't trust.



Didnt the Bronco offense average like 13 points a game the first half of the year? We couldnt run the ball very well and our passing game was a laughing stock...Plummer got benched because his play was terrible. The rookie outplayed him going forward.

:Broncos:

baja
01-18-2009, 06:47 PM
That's the reason for it but after the QB change the teams play went downhill as well. I still think it would have served the team better to let Jake play the rest of the season instead of a rookie that a lot of the vets didn't trust.

Well your locker room point is a good one but you gotta admit Jake was stinking it up.

TheDave
01-18-2009, 06:49 PM
OH I GET IT BECAUSE WE KNEW THE DEFENSE SUCKED THAT GIVES THE DEFENSE ABSOLUTION OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR LOSING THE GAME. STERLING ANALYSIS WATSON.

;)

http://www.ihatethecapslockkey.com/capslockdemotivate.jpg

Northman
01-18-2009, 06:49 PM
If Jake Had played like he did the year before we would not haave seen Jay atleast until next season. It was Jake's play that put Jay Cutler on the field.


Shhh. Your making too much sense. Stop it.

RunSilentRunDeep
01-18-2009, 06:49 PM
I thought we wanted to play Pitt because the game would be in Denver instead of going on the road. One thing everyone seems to forget was Plummer had the flu that week. He may have been "over it" by game day, but there was no way his energy was close to 100%.

Since the Jake vs. Cutler argument doesn't get us anywhere, can't we just pretend Champ holds onto that pick six on the first drive and the whole complexion of the game changes?

Northman
01-18-2009, 06:51 PM
I thought we wanted to play Pitt because the game would be in Denver instead of going on the road. One thing everyone seems to forget was Plummer had the flu that week. He may have been "over it" by game day, but there was no way his energy was close to 100%.

Since the Jake vs. Cutler argument doesn't get us anywhere, can't we just pretend Champ holds onto that pick six on the first drive and the whole complexion of the game changes?


Did he have the flu still when he played the Rams in the opener the following year?

Bronx33
01-18-2009, 06:52 PM
Well your locker room point is a good one but you gotta admit Jake was stinking it up.


agreed i watched it in person jake was seaching for answers and forcing it in ( jake was being jake) that was the thing that followed him his entire career mike could only take that guy so far before his own action buried him. Jake was one brain molecule away from being a great QB to take him over the top and it showed his entire career.

baja
01-18-2009, 06:52 PM
;)

http://www.ihatethecapslockkey.com/capslockdemotivate.jpg

You've been dying to use that haven't you.

RunSilentRunDeep
01-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Did he have the flu still when he played the Rams in the opener the following year?

Nope, just two crappy running backs and a No. 1 receiver with a career ending hip problem.

24champ
01-18-2009, 07:05 PM
Didnt the Bronco offense average like 13 points a game the first half of the year? We couldnt run the ball very well and our passing game was a laughing stock...Plummer got benched because his play was terrible. The rookie outplayed him going forward.

:Broncos:

Yeah the rookie's play went 2-3 and didn't carry the team to the playoffs. Although that wasn't the sole purpose of the move. The players knew what was going on, Shanny was getting ready to blow it all up and didn't care about the playoffs. Hence the split locker room and things got unstable thereafter.

I remember after the San Diego game when some of the coaches tried to make the players shake off the loss and the players just scoffed at the coaches. One unnamed player basically said it was over. There was an article about it in the Denver Post. The locker room was lost. Season was canned from the moment Jake was yanked. Whether Jake would have led this team to the playoffs, we'll never know.

I just didn't think it was Jay's time yet and it was unfair to ask a rookie to come in and save the team.

footstepsfrom#27
01-18-2009, 07:27 PM
I just didn't think it was Jay's time yet and it was unfair to ask a rookie to come in and save the team.
It wasn't Plummer's time either. A change had to be made, it was made, it was the right choice because there was no other choice.

Had Shanny had a decent defense, Jay might have taken the team farther, but they're both gone now and it's a brand new day.

Bronx33
01-18-2009, 07:29 PM
It wasn't Plummer's time either. A change had to be made, it was made, it was the right choice because there was no other choice.

Had Shanny had a decent defense, Jay might have taken the team farther, but they're both gone now and it's a brand new day.


I think shanahan said to himself well i can let jake stink it up or we can get jay some reps ( it was a no brainer imo)

Popps
01-18-2009, 07:33 PM
Wouldn't have mattered. We couldn't play defense.

Still can't.

Bronx33
01-18-2009, 07:35 PM
Wouldn't have mattered. We couldn't play defense.

Still can't.


Getting jay envolved early mattered win or lose.

Miss I.
01-18-2009, 07:41 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/djI_X1Clgqo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/djI_X1Clgqo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


So where is the love, Jake? Where is the love?

24champ
01-18-2009, 07:42 PM
It wasn't Plummer's time either. A change had to be made, it was made, it was the right choice because there was no other choice.

Had Shanny had a decent defense, Jay might have taken the team farther, but they're both gone now and it's a brand new day.

Like I said the record speaks for itself. Shanahan made a calculated move and it backfired. Funny thing is that move might have been the beginning of the end of Shanny's tenure in Denver.

24champ
01-18-2009, 07:43 PM
I think shanahan said to himself well i can let jake stink it up or we can get jay some reps ( it was a no brainer imo)

I can understand that if we were out of the playoffs...but not in the middle of the playoff run.

Bronx33
01-18-2009, 07:47 PM
I can understand that if we were out of the playoffs...but not in the middle of the playoff run.


Mikes brain is a mysterious place maybe that was the the beggining of the end for pat? who knows.

broncosteven
01-18-2009, 08:48 PM
Jake Plummer was the 3rd best QB in Broncos history.

We kinda already hashed this:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2167114&postcount=68

broncosteven
01-18-2009, 08:56 PM
I can understand that if we were out of the playoffs...but not in the middle of the playoff run.

Rewatch Jake's last game as a starter.

Thanksgiving at Analhead.

Jake knew his job was on the line, he had extra days to prepare goes out and plays one of the worst games at QB that I have ever seen. John had a bad game at home Vs KFC around 94ish. Marcus Allen broke the record for career TDs in a 7-14 game. John couldn't do **** in the snow.

Jake just couldn't do ****. They had chances in Jakes last game he just could not get the ball to anyone, giving LJ plenty of reps enroute to his 150+ yards rushing.

I always thought that if Jay start one game early we go on to playoffs and another Indy Blowout loss.

I am glad Jake is playing mens handball for Sandy pointe idaho. I hope he wins a tourney won day, then he can put it next to his 2 NFL playoff wins.

24champ
01-18-2009, 09:32 PM
Rewatch Jake's last game as a starter.

Thanksgiving at Analhead.

Jake knew his job was on the line, he had extra days to prepare goes out and plays one of the worst games at QB that I have ever seen. John had a bad game at home Vs KFC around 94ish. Marcus Allen broke the record for career TDs in a 7-14 game. John couldn't do **** in the snow.

Jake just couldn't do ****. They had chances in Jakes last game he just could not get the ball to anyone, giving LJ plenty of reps enroute to his 150+ yards rushing.

I always thought that if Jay start one game early we go on to playoffs and another Indy Blowout loss.

I am glad Jake is playing mens handball for Sandy pointe idaho. I hope he wins a tourney won day, then he can put it next to his 2 NFL playoff wins.

Yeah Jake played like shiat in that game, nobody can argue otherwise but that isn't the point here.

mosca
01-18-2009, 11:11 PM
24-3 at the half meant GAME OVER. if you think the defense lost that game, then you don't remember how suspect that defense was against the passing game. the Steelers many 3rd down conversions were on passing plays.
Yes - the defense was suspect against the passing game, a suspicion that proved to be true when they gave up 24 points in a half!

Popps
01-18-2009, 11:24 PM
The point of rehashing all of this stuff is simply to avoid repeating mistakes.
(Given, we don't control anything... but in theory.)

In the early 2000s, Shanahan became infatuated with CBs. He spent loads of resources, and finally traded away our best RB for one. Conversely, he stopped taking the defensive line seriously. Instead of bringing in a premiere DE, he moved Pryce (a Pro Bowl DT) over to DE... and began signing a slew of cast-offs like Leon Lett, Browns wash-outs, etc. During that time, we also let our best DEs walk.... one of whom is going to be playing in the Superbowl this year.

So, every time it came to a big game... our front-weak defense got pushed around, and despite Shanahan's obsession with cornerbacks, we still gave up huge yards in the passing game due to no pass-rush.

So, live and learn. Years later, Shanahan never fixed his mistakes and we've moved on. It's absolutely CRUCIAL now that this new regime come in and get IMMEDIATELY serious about the D-line, and particularly... the end positions where we field some of the worst starters in football... or maybe THE worst.

I don't care what scheme we play, we need talent on the edge. We need pressure on every passing play, and we need to be able to do it without sending blitzes on every down.

We need guys who can change games in our front seven.

NFLBRONCO
01-18-2009, 11:39 PM
When is Shanahan to Philly thread going to appear?

titan
01-19-2009, 08:56 AM
Yes - the defense was suspect against the passing game, a suspicion that proved to be true when they gave up 24 points in a half!

Jimmy Spencer was a guest at the Bronco QB Club at one meeting this season. He was the defensive back coach for the Broncos in the 2005 season. At the end of his talk he took questions, and I asked him one I have been wondering about a long time:

Did Roethlesberger just have a great game in the AFC Championship game, or was there something wrong with the Broncos defense that game?

Spencer said that the Broncos were so successful in their blitz package the week before in the big win against New England, that they kept many of the same defensive "looks" against the Steelers. Pittsburgh had the Broncos well scouted and were ready for the blitzes thrown at them in the AFC Championship game. Spencer wanted the Broncos to mix it up more in the defensive game plan against the Steelers.

My thoughts:

Plummer did have a bad game vs the Steelers but alot of that was because the Broncos were in such a deep hole early due to their poor defense. Plummer was successful in the 2005 season when the broncos had the lead and he could do play action passes off of a strong running game. The Steelers big lead early took the running game out of the equation and with Plummer being forced to throw most every down, and with a strong Steeler pass rush, that caused turnovers.

Maybe a different defensive scheme wouldn't have helped. I was at the New England game the week before and Brady was off that game - there were Patriot receivers open all game. The Bronco pressure had something to do with that but Brady made his share of mistakes too (like the Champ pick)

chex
01-19-2009, 09:39 AM
Spencer said that the Broncos were so successful in their blitz package the week before in the big win against New England, that they kept many of the same defensive "looks" against the Steelers. Pittsburgh had the Broncos well scouted and were ready for the blitzes thrown at them in the AFC Championship game. Spencer wanted the Broncos to mix it up more in the defensive game plan against the Steelers.



That, more than anything else, is why Coyer got fired IMO. Not that one game specifically, but his inability to adjust during the game. I forget which year it was, but we played the Colts at the end of the year, in a game that we won where there was widespread speculation that the Colts laid down so they could face us the following week in the playoffs, and we got whupped yet again. I remember one of the Colts players, (Stokley I think), came out and said that we didn't change one thing on defense from the previous week, and they couldn't believe it was that easy. With Coyer, if his gameplan was working, great, if not, we'll get 'em next week. There were no adjustments made on the fly, and that is what cost him his job, since you can't keep showing the same looks week in and wek out, and dare a team to beat you.

2KBack
01-19-2009, 09:45 AM
okay, so who bet the over?

mosca
01-19-2009, 10:52 AM
Plummer did have a bad game vs the Steelers but alot of that was because the Broncos were in such a deep hole early due to their poor defense. Plummer was successful in the 2005 season when the broncos had the lead and he could do play action passes off of a strong running game. The Steelers big lead early took the running game out of the equation and with Plummer being forced to throw most every down, and with a strong Steeler pass rush, that caused turnovers.
Right on - perfect example of the relation between a teams' passing offense, running offense, and how well their D puts them in a position to win the game.

Of course, we are more capable of winning from behind with a great pocket passer like Cutler, instead of Jake who relied on a lot of deception, playaction, and bootlegs. But the D is still a huge part of the equation.

montrose
01-19-2009, 11:34 AM
"I can still remember throwing a ball in practice, and I didn't know whether he was going to scream at me or say, 'Great play."

This one line illustrates why I'm happy Shanahan will no longer be coaching Cutler. I believed Jay had picked up some very bad habits as Mike (after the SOB years) wanted his QB's to "make plays". In the process Jake and Jay were given the green light to do a lot of reckless stuff. I can completely see Jake getting praised by Mike for "making a play" after he scrambled around and threw across his body for a first down; just as much as I can see Mike reaming him for the exact same play but resulting in the far more likely interception. I saw the same thing with Jay this year. One of the CBS announcers (I think Gannon) even said that Mike was encouraging Jay to go out and play that style of football.

Josh will not coach Jay that way. He stresses taking care of the ball and making smart decisions. His system is so QB friendly, I hope I never again have to see Jay throw across his body 40 yards down the field to Scheffler or Jackson in double coverage unless it's 4th down with the game on the line. We all know Jay has unbelievable physical tools, if Josh can harness that ability into making smart, easy plays - this offense can take the next step.

broncosteven
01-19-2009, 06:35 PM
That, more than anything else, is why Coyer got fired IMO. Not that one game specifically, but his inability to adjust during the game. I forget which year it was, but we played the Colts at the end of the year, in a game that we won where there was widespread speculation that the Colts laid down so they could face us the following week in the playoffs, and we got whupped yet again. I remember one of the Colts players, (Stokley I think), came out and said that we didn't change one thing on defense from the previous week, and they couldn't believe it was that easy. With Coyer, if his gameplan was working, great, if not, we'll get 'em next week. There were no adjustments made on the fly, and that is what cost him his job, since you can't keep showing the same looks week in and wek out, and dare a team to beat you.

The Problem I always had with Coyer was that he could not adjust. I could see why he could not adjust if they did not adjust before the game!

Broncos4tw
01-19-2009, 06:44 PM
Jake is why Jake was cut, that's it. He will never win a SB in this league, unless a team not only builds the entire offense around him, but executes that offense perfectly. That's the problem with having a QB with limitations. I thought Shanny went well out of his way to help him out, changing our entire offense to fit one guy.

A solid QB will make an offenses inadequacies less so. A mediocre QB creates offensive inadequacies. Jake was the latter. Jay is the former. Jay needs work and solid coaching, but there is little he can't do.

mosca
01-19-2009, 09:54 PM
Can he make the defense play better?

baja
01-19-2009, 10:01 PM
Who bet the over?

SouthStndJunkie
01-19-2009, 10:23 PM
Who bet the over?

That was a free money bet....any thread with Jake and Shanny in the title is guaranteed to last for days.

That is why I posted it.

Taco John
01-19-2009, 10:37 PM
"I can still remember throwing a ball in practice, and I didn't know whether he was going to scream at me or say, 'Great play."

This one line illustrates why I'm happy Shanahan will no longer be coaching Cutler. I believed Jay had picked up some very bad habits as Mike (after the SOB years) wanted his QB's to "make plays". In the process Jake and Jay were given the green light to do a lot of reckless stuff. I can completely see Jake getting praised by Mike for "making a play" after he scrambled around and threw across his body for a first down; just as much as I can see Mike reaming him for the exact same play but resulting in the far more likely interception. I saw the same thing with Jay this year. One of the CBS announcers (I think Gannon) even said that Mike was encouraging Jay to go out and play that style of football.

Josh will not coach Jay that way. He stresses taking care of the ball and making smart decisions. His system is so QB friendly, I hope I never again have to see Jay throw across his body 40 yards down the field to Scheffler or Jackson in double coverage unless it's 4th down with the game on the line. We all know Jay has unbelievable physical tools, if Josh can harness that ability into making smart, easy plays - this offense can take the next step.


That's ridiculous. Jake nor Jay were given the green light to throw interceptions. Shanahan has always been adamant about throwing the ball away if the open receiver isn't there - and when Jake started to get comfortable with doing that, he got the name "No Mistake Jake."

I can understand people wanting Shanahan gone because of the defensive side of the ball... But being glad Shanahan is gone because you don't want him around a quarterback? There's no words for what a terrible take this is.

The absolute worst line:

I hope I never again have to see Jay throw across his body 40 yards down the field to Scheffler or Jackson in double coverage unless it's 4th down with the game on the line.


With a take like that, I'm guessing that you probably were born in the mid 80's and didn't really have an appreciation for what Elway was doing for this team in his prime. We've won plenty of games because of that throw. Also, Scheffler or Jackson will never be double covered.

TheDave
01-19-2009, 10:47 PM
Who bet the over?

Sadley an over win means we all loose... ROFL!

baja
01-19-2009, 11:41 PM
Sadley an over win means we all loose... ROFL!

Dave I don't know quite how it works but that avatar of yours is looking worse as the weeks go by.

Miss I.
01-20-2009, 05:56 AM
Dave I don't know quite how it works but that avatar of yours is looking worse as the weeks go by.

Yeah he's starting to look like Jake, nah just kidding, though I think I need to stop reading this thread. Last night I had a horrible dream, they rehired Plummer as starting QB for the Denver Broncos....geeshhh...man, when I start dreaming about thread topics from the OM, perhaps I need to step back. :D

Mountain Bronco
01-20-2009, 09:40 AM
With a take like that, I'm guessing that you probably were born in the mid 80's and didn't really have an appreciation for what Elway was doing for this team in his prime.

Why do constantly insult peopel based on nonsense? Why is it always about how old someone is and what they saw or remember? What the hell does that have to do with anything in the present? So what if someone was born in the mid 80's and didn't see much of Elway. To bad for them, but doesn't make their opinion any less important to the here and now. Stop living in the past.


Good for Jake as well. Speak your mind. Shanny sucked the fun out of Jake's football career and I would be bitter about it also.

vancejohnson82
01-20-2009, 09:57 AM
For Jake Plummer to pipe in on SHanny's firing is propesterous...

If he loved football and just didnt like Shanny maybe he should have gone over and played for Gruden in Tampa Bay like he was supposed to...instead of retreating to Idaho....then he would have seen what other options as far as coaching were out there....I'm sure if Gruden could find a way to talk about a QB not being tough while playing with a blown kidney (Simms...was it a kidney or liver??) he would have found a lot to say about Jake..

he shoudl just keep his mouth shut

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 12:54 PM
For Jake Plummer to pipe in on SHanny's firing is propesterous...

If he loved football and just didnt like Shanny maybe he should have gone over and played for Gruden in Tampa Bay like he was supposed to

he shoudl just keep his mouth shut

I think if Tampa was the only other option for him, I can understand why he retired. In any case, your point makes no sense. Jake earned the right to express his opinion

broncosteven
01-20-2009, 12:57 PM
[QUOTE=Taco John;2259332]

With a take like that, I'm guessing that you probably were born in the mid 80's and didn't really have an appreciation for what Elway was doing for this team in his prime. QUOTE]

Why do constantly insult peopel based on nonsense? Why is it always about how old someone is and what they saw or remember? What the hell does that have to do with anything in the present? So what if someone was born in the mid 80's and didn't see much of Elway. To bad for them, but doesn't make their opinion any less important to the here and now. Stop living in the past.


Good for Jake as well. Speak your mind. Shanny sucked the fun out of Jake's football career and I would be bitter about it also.

Thinking like this is what is killing the country and eroding our civilization.

Those who donít learn from the mistakes of the past are destined to repeat them.

Without understanding history people will repeat mistakes of those that came before. People who do not learn from the past are less likely to progress from those that paved the way before them.

The Human Condition dictates that we all experience the same struggles and feelings at some point in our lives. Those that learn about what happened before them and how those in the past dealt with the same adversity's will rise further than those who dwell in ignorance, "reinventing the wheel" every time they encounter a problem.

People alive now have more resources via a simple low speed internet connection than at any point in our history.

To claim ignorance about a topic in the Internet age just proves how lazy one is. I didn't see Columbus land in the new world but I know it happened.

History is not nonsense, it is knowledge, knowledge is power.

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 12:59 PM
[QUOTE=Broncos4tw;2259112]Jake is why Jake was cut, that's it. He will never win a SB in this league, unless a team not only builds the entire offense around him, but executes that offense perfectly. QUOTE]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/your_turn/news/2001/01/18/reactions_worstsbqb/

theAPAOps5
01-20-2009, 01:00 PM
Its really funny more players than not rave about Shanahan. But the few who don't and who have the harshest words have a common denominator. They don't put in the effort expected. Plummer, didn't show up to most the OTA's the season he got benched and it showed. Trevor Pryce, he was a constant underachiever. Simeon Rice, do I need to explain? It seems to me the ones who faced Shanahans wrath were extremely talented players who refused to work hard.

Just something that occured to me, wonder if there is anything to it.

vancejohnson82
01-20-2009, 01:06 PM
I think if Tampa was the only other option for him, I can understand why he retired. In any case, your point makes no sense. Jake earned the right to express his opinion


so he didnt want to play in Tampa and he didnt want to play for Shanahan...seems to me like he didnt want to play football.....


I think my point was quite valid actually....and what did Jake do to earn the right to express his opinion that others have not...namely guys like TO or Anquan Boldin who get villified when they speak out?

bronco militia
01-20-2009, 01:08 PM
Jake's a quiter

**** him

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 01:09 PM
[QUOTE=Mountain Bronco;2259669]

Thinking like this is what is killing the country and eroding our civilization.

Those who donít learn from the mistakes of the past are destined to repeat them.

Without understanding history people will repeat mistakes of those that came before. People who do not learn from the past are less likely to progress from those that paved the way before them.

The Human Condition dictates that we all experience the same struggles and feelings at some point in our lives. Those that learn about what happened before them and how those in the past dealt with the same adversity's will rise further than those who dwell in ignorance, "reinventing the wheel" every time they encounter a problem.

People alive now have more resources via a simple low speed internet connection than at any point in our history.

To claim ignorance about a topic in the Internet age just proves how lazy one is. I didn't see Columbus land in the new world but I know it happened.

History is not nonsense, it is knowledge, knowledge is power.

Thank you, Maya Angelou. We now join our regularly scheduled session of discussing Jake Plummer's thoughts on his former coach, already in progress. Up next, water-skiing squirrels.

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 01:13 PM
Jake's a quiter

**** him

Sorry, when did he quit again? I think you mean he was fired.

bronco militia
01-20-2009, 01:15 PM
Sorry, when did he quit again? I think you mean he was fired.

nope..benched, traded, then quit errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr retired

good riddance

hey everybody,

Jake sends his love to the Bronco Nation

Taco John
01-20-2009, 01:21 PM
Sorry, when did he quit again? I think you mean he was fired.

Jake wasn't fired. Shanahan wanted him to stick around. But when it looked like he wouldn't, he traded his rights to Tampa Bay. Gruden wanted Jake badly. Even a season later, he still wanted him.

Taco John
01-20-2009, 01:27 PM
With a take like that, I'm guessing that you probably were born in the mid 80's and didn't really have an appreciation for what Elway was doing for this team in his prime.
Why do constantly insult peopel based on nonsense? Why is it always about how old someone is and what they saw or remember? What the hell does that have to do with anything in the present? So what if someone was born in the mid 80's and didn't see much of Elway. To bad for them, but doesn't make their opinion any less important to the here and now. Stop living in the past.

It wasn't an insult. It was a guess on when that person was born based on his take. John Elway threw across his body for some spetacular touchdowns to win some big games. Anyone complaining about watching Jay throw across his body doesn't have an appreciation for what that throw has meant to this organization in the last 20 years. Certainly, I do discount the opinion of anyone who complains about that throw. It's not about living in the past. It's about the fact that that throw very often catches a defense by suprise because they've started to roll coverage in the the other direction. The fact that Jay is one of the only quarterbacks in the game who can complete this throw is not a detriment to our team.

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 01:41 PM
Oh - got it. So you're a quitter when you've just lost your starting job to a rookie, then are traded to a team already loaded at QB position, and you decide that you're ready to retire rather than continue doing something you don't like anymore. Ahh - now I see.

Shanahan - Nice work on those 3 straight winning seasons, helming our team to the playoffs. With that said, it's just not working out. We're going with the rookie.

Jake - In the middle of the season? Really? Wow. How do I fit in now?

Shanahan - We want you to chill on the sidelines and root on the guy who replaced you.

Jake - Okay, I can do that the rest of the season. But then what?

Shanahan - Umm. Not sure really. It would be great to just have you hang around and pat guys on the back.

Jake - Yeah, I think I have more important things to do in life

Shanahan - Okay, how about we trade you to some trainwreck team that already has 4 QB's and you can butt heads with them and with a coach who hates all his QB's. Sound good?

Jake - Thanks. You're the best.

bronco militia
01-20-2009, 01:56 PM
Oh - got it. So you're a quitter when you've just lost your starting job to a rookie, then are traded to a team already loaded at QB position, and you decide that you're ready to retire rather than continue doing something you don't like anymore. Ahh - now I see.

Shanahan - Nice work on those 3 straight winning seasons, helming our team to the playoffs. With that said, it's just not working out. We're going with the rookie.

Jake - In the middle of the season? Really? Wow. How do I fit in now?

Shanahan - We want you to chill on the sidelines and root on the guy who replaced you.

Jake - Okay, I can do that the rest of the season. But then what?

Shanahan - Umm. Not sure really. It would be great to just have you hang around and pat guys on the back.

Jake - Yeah, I think I have more important things to do in life

Shanahan - Okay, how about we trade you to some trainwreck team that already has 4 QB's and you can butt heads with them and with a coach who hates all his QB's. Sound good?

Jake - Thanks. You're the best.

yeah, Jake wasn't fired because he quit

thanks for clearing that up for us again.

remind me to kick Junkie in the balls for this thread

montrose
01-20-2009, 02:02 PM
That's ridiculous. Jake nor Jay were given the green light to throw interceptions. Shanahan has always been adamant about throwing the ball away if the open receiver isn't there - and when Jake started to get comfortable with doing that, he got the name "No Mistake Jake."

I never said Mike gave those guys the green light to throw interceptions, he hated those turnovers. I think Mike coaches his QB's to "make plays". In 2005, under one of the best defenses in the Shanahan-era - Shanahan put major handcuffs on Jake which led to "No Mistake Jake". As soon as our defense wasn't playing so hot (AFC Title Game and 2006) and Shanahan took the cuffs off Jake - the mistakes began again.

I believe Mike coached Jake (minus 2005) and Jay to "make plays" to overcome their porous defense. Rich Gannon even said before the Jets and Panthers games that Shanahan had told Jay to play that style - not too worry about throwing INT's and just trying to make plays.

I can understand people wanting Shanahan gone because of the defensive side of the ball... But being glad Shanahan is gone because you don't want him around a quarterback? There's no words for what a terrible take this is.

I actually wanted Mike back. I'm not calling Mike a bad QB Coach - far from it. I'm calling Mike a bad defensive coach which led him to coaching his QB's to make more plays out of desperation.

The absolute worst line:

I hope I never again have to see Jay throw across his body 40 yards down the field to Scheffler or Jackson in double coverage unless it's 4th down with the game on the line.

With a take like that, I'm guessing that you probably were born in the mid 80's and didn't really have an appreciation for what Elway was doing for this team in his prime. We've won plenty of games because of that throw. Also, Scheffler or Jackson will never be double covered.

Yes I was born in the mid-80's, however through the magic of VHS I've seen nearly every play of John's career. I have a great appreciation for what he did but in today's game, I'd prefer the smarter QB making easy decisions - the way Rivers and Cassel played this season. Per Scheffler and Jackson being double-covered, I was referencing those examples from our games against Cleveland and New York this year when Cutler threw very dangerous passes into multiple coverage. Both were caught, but could've been just as easily intercepted.

broncosteven
01-20-2009, 02:06 PM
Oh - got it. So you're a quitter when you've just lost your starting job to a rookie, then are traded to a team already loaded at QB position, and you decide that you're ready to retire rather than continue doing something you don't like anymore. Ahh - now I see.

Shanahan - Nice work on those 3 straight winning seasons, helming our team to the playoffs. With that said, it's just not working out. We're going with the rookie.

Jake - In the middle of the season? Really? Wow. How do I fit in now?

Shanahan - We want you to chill on the sidelines and root on the guy who replaced you.

Jake - Okay, I can do that the rest of the season. But then what?

Shanahan - Umm. Not sure really. It would be great to just have you hang around and pat guys on the back.

Jake - Yeah, I think I have more important things to do in life

Shanahan - Okay, how about we trade you to some trainwreck team that already has 4 QB's and you can butt heads with them and with a coach who hates all his QB's. Sound good?

Jake - Thanks. You're the best.


I am sure it went down that way, his play during the 2006 season had no part in forcing Shanny's hand.

The bad part of History is that people tend to remember things how they wanted to them to happen, not how they did.

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 02:28 PM
yeah, Jake wasn't fired because he quit

thanks for clearing that up for us again.

remind me to kick Junkie in the balls for this thread

Hey, when you retire, you're a quitter buddy. Only losers retire. You better keep flipping those burgers till you're dead.

baja
01-20-2009, 02:49 PM
It wasn't an insult. It was a guess on when that person was born based on his take. John Elway threw across his body for some spectacular touchdowns to win some big games. Anyone complaining about watching Jay throw across his body doesn't have an appreciation for what that throw has meant to this organization in the last 20 years. Certainly, I do discount the opinion of anyone who complains about that throw. It's not about living in the past. It's about the fact that that throw very often catches a defense by surprise because they've started to roll coverage in the the other direction. The fact that Jay is one of the only quarterbacks in the game who can complete this throw is not a detriment to our team.

Very good take TJ.

It's sad to think newer fans pray they do not see a play that was to us older fans a play that is reminiscent of the most exciting of times with Elway. It's even more disheartening now that we amazingly are once again blessed to have that rare talent behind center than can actually make that throw. I sure hope I see it when it's all that is left. It's the ability to make those kind of plays that defines franchise quarter back.

SouthStndJunkie
01-20-2009, 03:06 PM
yeah, Jake wasn't fired because he quit

thanks for clearing that up for us again.

remind me to kick Junkie in the balls for this thread

This thread might be worth 2 kicks to the berries.

broncosteven
01-20-2009, 03:10 PM
Hey, when you retire, you're a quitter buddy. Only losers retire. You better keep flipping those burgers till you're dead.

People also forget that Plummer did not file his retirement papers right away, I think it took him 6 months to a year before he actually filed the retirement paperwork with the league. That allowed Denver to trade his rights to Tampa.

If Jake filed his papers Denver never works out the trade with Tampa.

So one could say he walked away for a year and that could be considered quitting.

baja
01-20-2009, 03:17 PM
This thread might be worth 2 kicks to the berries.

please do not mention s o b

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 03:20 PM
People also forget that Plummer did not file his retirement papers right away, I think it took him 6 months to a year before he actually filed the retirement paperwork with the league. That allowed Denver to trade his rights to Tampa.

If Jake filed his papers Denver never works out the trade with Tampa.

So one could say he walked away for a year and that could be considered quitting.

This thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. Now Jake is a quitter because he didn't have his paperwork in order. In other words, you're saying he's a quitter because he didn't quit correctly. Brilliant!

He made it very well known that he was retiring before the Broncos and Bucs made that bonehead deal.

SouthStndJunkie
01-20-2009, 03:27 PM
please do not mention s o b

Jake Plummer: Smiled When Shanny was Fired while Brian Griese cackled with joy.

baja
01-20-2009, 03:29 PM
Jake Plummer: Smiled When Shanny was Fired while Brian Griese cackled with joy.

Great

Now what is the over & under....

SouthStndJunkie
01-20-2009, 03:32 PM
Great

Now what is the over & under....

20 pages is the over/under.

The Big E
01-20-2009, 03:34 PM
I'm sure Jake is quite upset with internet message board losers calling him a quitter. He'd be eager to trade his life with anyone here. I mean, who'd really want to retire in their early 30's after 10 years as an NFL QB, have health and wealth, and be married to a Broncos cheerleader? I shudder at the thought of the hell that poor guy must be going through.

SouthStndJunkie
01-20-2009, 03:37 PM
I'm sure Jake is quite upset with internet message board losers calling him a quitter. He'd be eager to trade his life with anyone here. I mean, who'd really want to retire in their early 30's after 10 years as an NFL QB, have health and wealth, and be married to a Broncos cheerleader? I shudder at the thought of the hell that poor guy must be going through.

Jake is the one still b****ing and moaning about Shanny.

Maybe Shanny can start showing up at handball games unannounced to critique Jake's handball serves and throw him off his game.

broncosteven
01-20-2009, 03:56 PM
This thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. Now Jake is a quitter because he didn't have his paperwork in order. In other words, you're saying he's a quitter because he didn't quit correctly. Brilliant!

He made it very well known that he was retiring before the Broncos and Bucs made that bonehead deal.

Are all your 140+ posts about Jake or is there another phase of the Broncos you are a fan of?

Someone that knows everything about what happens behind the Dove Valley and lockerroom doors would be a great asset here.

The Big E
01-20-2009, 04:00 PM
Jake is the one still b****ing and moaning about Shanny.

Maybe Shanny can start showing up at handball games unannounced to critique Jake's handball serves and throw him off his game.

C'mon, how much has anyone heard about Plummer at all since he left? I'd hardly say he's been b****ing and moaning about Shanahan. He answered one question to one reporter for some obscure article about the Cardinals.

Question for the board: Which number is larger? The number of playoff wins over Plummer's 10 year career, or the number of playoff wins over the past 10 years of Shanahan's career?

SouthStndJunkie
01-20-2009, 04:02 PM
C'mon, how much has anyone heard about Plummer at all since he left? I'd hardly say he's been b****ing and moaning about Shanahan. He answered one question to one reporter for some obscure article about the Cardinals.

Question for the board: Which number is larger? The number of playoff wins over Plummer's 10 year career, or the number of playoff wins over the past 10years of Shanhan's career?

This whole thread was my idea of a joke.

I could care less about what Jake said....I am just stoking the fire now and then to keep the thread going.

My goal was 10 pages and it looks like I am close to it. I knew the the topic was perfectly suited for a good argument on the Mane.

I figured people would have caught on to that by now.

baja
01-20-2009, 04:04 PM
This whole thread was my idea of a joke.

I could care less about what Jake said....I am just stoking the fire now and then to keep the thread going.

My goal was 10 pages and it looks like I am close to it.

I figured people would have caught on to that by now.

STFU

I took the new over. ;D

wolf754life
01-20-2009, 04:05 PM
mike shanahan > jake plummer

SouthStndJunkie
01-20-2009, 04:08 PM
STFU

I took the new over. ;D

My bad....Jake sucks....I can't believe he said that about Shanny.

How dare he!

The Big E
01-20-2009, 04:09 PM
This whole thread was my idea of a joke.

I could care less about what Jake said....I am just stoking the fire now and then to keep the thread going.

My goal was 10 pages and it looks like I am close to it. I knew the the topic was perfectly suited for a good argument on the Mane.

I figured people would have caught on to that by now.
Touche'.

Somebody had the over/under at 6 pages, which I figured would be way too low.
*edit: It was TheDave. TheDave, you should've known better, man.

And I agree that Mike Shanahan > Jake Plummer.

broncosteven
01-20-2009, 04:31 PM
This whole thread was my idea of a joke.

I could care less about what Jake said....I am just stoking the fire now and then to keep the thread going.

My goal was 10 pages and it looks like I am close to it. I knew the the topic was perfectly suited for a good argument on the Mane.

I figured people would have caught on to that by now.

Bring up Mac vs PC! That should double the thread.

Alkazar
01-20-2009, 05:12 PM
aww c'mon guys, the over/under is up to 20 now that BG was brought up! We gotta keep this going! I think BG should also be listed as one of the Broncos top 3 QBs!

Pontius Pirate
01-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Are all your 140+ posts about Jake or is there another phase of the Broncos you are a fan of?

Someone that knows everything about what happens behind the Dove Valley and lockerroom doors would be a great asset here.

The rest of my posts are about slayer.

Taco John
01-20-2009, 06:26 PM
This thread is getting more ridiculous by the minute. Now Jake is a quitter because he didn't have his paperwork in order. In other words, you're saying he's a quitter because he didn't quit correctly. Brilliant!

He made it very well known that he was retiring before the Broncos and Bucs made that bonehead deal.




Bonehead deal? That deal was brilliant! We ended up with Peyton Hillis over it.

SouthStndJunkie
01-20-2009, 06:35 PM
Bring up Mac vs PC! That should double the thread.

Hello, I am Jake Plummer and I am a Mac.

Hello, I am Mike Shanahan and I am a PC (Actually I don't even know how to check email).

baja
01-20-2009, 06:46 PM
Hello, I am Jake Plummer and I am a Mac.

Hello, I am Mike Shanahan and I am a PC (Actually I don't even know how to check email).
ROFL!

Alkazar
01-20-2009, 06:52 PM
Hello, I am Jake Plummer and I am a Mac.

Hello, I am Mike Shanahan and I am a PC (Actually I don't even know how to check email).

Actually, those commerials were cute when they first came out, but I use the same argument for this as I do for any Ford Truck vs Chevy Truck debate: Who sells the most year in and year out. This, for me, ends the debate. You don't stay the top seller in an industry with an inferior product.

bronco militia
01-20-2009, 09:39 PM
Hello, I am Jake Plummer and I am a Mac.

Hello, I am Mike Shanahan and I am a PC (Actually I don't even know how to check email).

bwhaha

baja
01-20-2009, 09:49 PM
Actually, those commerials were cute when they first came out, but I use the same argument for this as I do for any Ford Truck vs Chevy Truck debate: Who sells the most year in and year out. This, for me, ends the debate. You don't stay the top seller in an industry with an inferior product.

The Pinto out sold the Mercedes so according to your arguement the Pinto is the better vehicle, correct?

Bronco Bob
01-20-2009, 10:50 PM
Jake is why Jake was cut, that's it. He will never win a SB in this league,


Especially since it seems he has given up on football and prefers handball instead. ;)

brncs_fan
01-20-2009, 11:08 PM
Especially since it seems he has given up on football and prefers handball instead. ;)

You forgot the pot smoking and ex-cheerleader girlfriend.

Bronco Bob
01-20-2009, 11:40 PM
Jake Plummer: Smiled When Shanny was Fired while Brian Griese cackled with joy.

Anyone know what take Bubby Bristor, Gus Frerotte, Steve Beuerlein, Jarious Jackson, or Preston Parsons had on Mike Shanahan getting fired?

Bronco Bob
01-20-2009, 11:45 PM
C'mon, how much has anyone heard about Plummer at all since he left? I'd hardly say he's been b****ing and moaning about Shanahan. He answered one question to one reporter for some obscure article about the Cardinals.

Question for the board: Which number is larger? The number of playoff wins over Plummer's 10 year career, or the number of playoff wins over the past 10 years of Shanahan's career?

Hell, the freaken' Cardinals have had more playoff wins in the past 10 years.

brncs_fan
01-20-2009, 11:46 PM
Anyone know what take Bubby Bristor, Gus Frerotte, Steve Beuerlein, Jarious Jackson, or Preston Parsons had on Mike Shanahan getting fired?

No, but I do have a response from BVP and Mauck,

alkemical
01-21-2009, 06:28 AM
Hello, I am Jake Plummer and I am a Mac.

Hello, I am Mike Shanahan and I am a PC (Actually I don't even know how to check email).

Lock the thread.

SouthStndJunkie
01-21-2009, 04:07 PM
Looks like this thread may have run out of steam.

bowtown
01-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Anyone know what take Bubby Bristor, Gus Frerotte, Steve Beuerlein, Jarious Jackson, or Preston Parsons had on Mike Shanahan getting fired?

I heard Frerotte was so happy, he put his head through a wall.

SouthStndJunkie
01-21-2009, 04:25 PM
No, but I do have a response from BVP and Mauck,

<IMG SRC="http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL637/2498345/6660043/132335872.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosting by PictureTrail.com">

baja
01-21-2009, 04:30 PM
Plummer was the most popular Bronco in the locker room and Jay was and is a diick . When Shanny drafted the young Jay a season after the AFCC and made it clear to the team that he was just looking for an excuse to bench Jake which he finally did that marked the beginning of the end for Shanahan that is the day he lost the team and he never got it back. They were heartless for the next three seasons. The way Al Wilson was treated contributed to the revolt too.

2KBack
01-21-2009, 04:33 PM
Mike Shanahan purposefully made gameplans designed to showcase Plummers weaknesses. He made the offense that caters to the dropback strongarms and forced Plummer into it, knowing full well he would struggle and then Shanny would have free reign to try out his new toy...even at the expense of the team.

vancejohnson82
01-21-2009, 04:38 PM
the two responses above this are two of the most delusional, ridiculous posts I've seen in a long time

congrats guys

Pontius Pirate
01-21-2009, 05:29 PM
the two responses above this are two of the most delusional, ridiculous posts I've seen in a long time

congrats guys

I'm biased, but I can see how Jake was well liked by his teammates whereas Jay has still not built the rapport he needs to as a leader. And I can see how Shanny was looking for an excuse to bench Jake. And I can see how he lost some guys in the locker-room after benching your veteran QB.

Then again - neither of us really know anything.

broncosteven
01-21-2009, 06:06 PM
I was hoping this thread would die but since SSJ is determined to keep it alive I would like to add the following response to Baja and 2kback.

In 2006 everyteam we played took away the bootleg.

Jake had a great year in 2005 throwing on the run outside the pocket.

Shanny didn't design plays to keep him in the pocket, they needed him to throw from the pocket because teams were disiplined and took the bootleg away.

Same thing happend to REXMAN in 2007, once teams realized he was too short to see over the line and could not deal with pressure up the middle they sent the pressure up the middle.

REXMAN went from being able to have time to throw down field to being forced to move in the pocket. He never recovered either. REXMAN is only still in NFL because he does not have handball to fall back on.

Jake was a one trick pony with "Moxie". Once the NFL took his one trick away it was over for him.

SouthStndJunkie
01-21-2009, 06:16 PM
I was hoping this thread would die but since SSJ is determined to keep it alive I would like to add the following response to Baja and 2kback.

In 2006 everyteam we played took away the bootleg.

Jake had a great year in 2005 throwing on the run outside the pocket.

Shanny didn't design plays to keep him in the pocket, they needed him to throw from the pocket because teams were disiplined and took the bootleg away.

Same thing happend to REXMAN in 2007, once teams realized he was too short to see over the line and could not deal with pressure up the middle they sent the pressure up the middle.

REXMAN went from being able to have time to throw down field to being forced to move in the pocket. He never recovered either. REXMAN is only still in NFL because he does not have handball to fall back on.

Jake was a one trick pony with "Moxie". Once the NFL took his one trick away it was over for him.

Gene Kranz: Smiled When Shanny was Fired.

broncosteven
01-21-2009, 06:32 PM
Gene Kranz: Smiled When Shanny was Fired.

Gene has been despondent since Shanny got the axe and I also heard his MAC broke.

orinjkrush
01-21-2009, 06:35 PM
jake was more to be admired than shanny.
on lots of levels.

baja
01-21-2009, 06:47 PM
jake was more to be admired than shanny.
on lots of levels.

I gotta agree here, Shanny is smarter by a country mile but Jake was and is a man's man while in the eyes of the players Shanny was the ''little man upstairs". The locker room was 100% Jake's, the players played for Plummer not for Shanahan. Think about it, the Broncos went flat when Shanny pulled the plug on Jake and they have never recovered their old swagger and that is why Shanahan is out of a job today.

broncosteven
01-21-2009, 06:49 PM
I gotta agree here, Shanny is smarter by a country mile but Jake was and is a man's man while in the eyes of the players Shanny was the ''little man upstairs". The locker room was 100% Jake's, the players played for Plummer not for Shanahan. Think about it, the Broncos went flat when Shanny pulled the plug on Jake and they have never recovered their old swagger and that is why Shanahan is out of a job today.

If he is so good in the locker room he should get a job washing jocks in a locker room somewhere rather than playing mens handball.

orinjkrush
01-21-2009, 07:09 PM
jake had exactly what gene kranz had, if you stop to think about it.

broncosteven
01-21-2009, 07:33 PM
jake had exactly what gene kranz had, if you stop to think about it.

You are on my **** list comparing Gene to Jake!

Gene had more than Moxie.

Chris Kraft hired Gene right before Mercury to build all the steps needed to launch men into space and get them home safely.

Before Gene there was nothing, just some steps Craft had started working out. Gene is Mission Control.

Gene not only build the standards for every launch but when Apollo 13 had the O2 take explode on his watch he locked his tiger team in a room and they stablized the situation and tackled every obstacle bringing the men on Apollo 13 home.

Jake would have buckled under that kind of pressure, I probably would have also. Those are a couple of reasons Gene is my hero!