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Bronco Bob
01-21-2009, 09:09 PM
If he is so good in the locker room he should get a job washing jocks in a locker room somewhere rather than playing mens handball.

Is that what you would prefer doing?

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 12:33 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11586720

Plummer: Shanny firing "was past due"

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 12:34 AM
This thread is not done yet!

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 12:38 AM
"I thought it was past due," Jake Plummer said in a telephone interview Thursday. "I think he had done what he could do and was just tapped out as far as his coaching style wasn't motivating guys anymore."

Taco John
01-30-2009, 12:41 AM
Speaking of gutless...

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 12:43 AM
Speaking of gutless...

I agree....Jake needs a tall glass of STFU.

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 12:44 AM
Jake sure is taking a lot of pot shots for wanting to walk away from the game and never look back.

La Caspa Del Diablo
01-30-2009, 01:04 AM
From 2003-05, Plummer was one of the top 8-10 QBs in the league. He should be grateful that Mike got the most of his talent.

baja
01-30-2009, 04:45 AM
"I thought it was past due," Jake Plummer said in a telephone interview Thursday. "I think he had done what he could do and was just tapped out as far as<b> his coaching style wasn't motivating guys anymore."

I have been saying this for a couple of seasons now

broncofan7
01-30-2009, 05:12 AM
Jake also compared Cutler to Jeff George in that article. I say give Cutler a defense along the lines of what Jake had to work with 2003-2005 and we are looking at being a perennial SB contender. I really liked Jake but he is being far too subjective in evaluating Cutler. My wife and I used to cringe everytime Jake went back to throw a pass-it was a visceral reaction-with Jay, we don't get that Queasy feeling at all.

broncofan7
01-30-2009, 05:13 AM
I have been saying this for a couple of seasons now

and me as well. Shanny was a tacitician who proved to be great with VETERAN players.

Mile High 81
01-30-2009, 05:31 AM
and me as well. Shanny was a tacitician who proved to be great with VETERAN players.

And Plummer was not a Veteran Player?

Well, I liked Plummer and I understand that he is frustrated because it is tough, when you go to an AFC CCG an the team drafts a QB in the First Round.

But Shanny did the right thing for this Franchise.

The Problem with Shanny was not the Motivation. It was his faiulure with the Defense an ST.

When he fired Coyer he sould hire young , talented Position Coachs from antohter Team.

Broncomutt
01-30-2009, 05:44 AM
Now that Shanny is gone it's interesting to see some of the scars he left behind. Like lifting a path stone in your back yard. On the surface it looks clean and polished, underneath is a seedy world of creepy crawly stuff.

Amazing so few of us fans noticed it.

broncofan7
01-30-2009, 05:57 AM
And Plummer was not a Veteran Player?

Well, I liked Plummer and I understand that he is frustrated because it is tough, when you go to an AFC CCG an the team drafts a QB in the First Round.

But Shanny did the right thing for this Franchise.

The Problem with Shanny was not the Motivation. It was his faiulure with the Defense an ST.

When he fired Coyer he sould hire young , talented Position Coachs from antohter Team.

I guess I should have qualified that with 'most veteran players'. He was great in Sf with a veteran cast and many throughout the NFL still say that Shanny is a great x's & o's coach (aikman, simms, etc). You never hear people say that he is a great motivator--and with our youth (and apparently Jake Plummer too) that is what we need IMHO--in addition to a defensive staff overhaul

HEAV
01-30-2009, 05:58 AM
Speaking of gutless...

Now noby brought Greise into this:wave:


**** Shanny! It's over. Deal with it, or close the mane and become a Cowboys fan.

baja
01-30-2009, 07:05 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11586720

Plummer: Shanny firing "was past due"

From the article;

Let others question Bowlen's wisdom for hiring a 32-year-old as head coach. Plummer's not among them.

"At that level, there's mutual respect," Plummer said. "There should be mutual respect between coach and player and player and coach. Some coaches can accomplish that while staying in charge, but others, if they can't do it naturally, they do it with an iron fist or engulfing you in a way that didn't feel right. I think that's what happened to Shanahan. He just tried so hard and pushed so hard that nothing was good enough. Nothing."

I think this really nails the problem with Shanny and the lack luster play we saw from the players the last few seasons ( Turning point was when Wilson left )

I think we will see a very different attitude on the field this season and we are gonna like it.

fontaine
01-30-2009, 07:25 AM
I gotta agree here, Shanny is smarter by a country mile but Jake was and is a man's man while in the eyes of the players Shanny was the ''little man upstairs". The locker room was 100% Jake's, the players played for Plummer not for Shanahan. Think about it, the Broncos went flat when Shanny pulled the plug on Jake and they have never recovered their old swagger and that is why Shanahan is out of a job today.

Yup, I'm sure the defensive leaders like Lynch/Bailey/Wilson were giddy and doing back flips on the sidelines out of sheer joy when Plummer threw up those turnovers in the AFC championship, on opening day against teams like St. Louis, Miami or in pressure situations.

As a matter of fact Shanahan was such a bad motivator that a bunch of young players on offense managed to turn into a pretty good unit all by themselves without ever being infuenced by this guy.

Kaylore
01-30-2009, 07:35 AM
Why is this thread still around? I don't care if Jake Plummer is bitter at Shanahan and I don't care if he thinks Cutler is Jeff George.

MrPappagiorgio
01-30-2009, 07:44 AM
F This I say bring Plummer back. I am tired of Cutler's cry ass BS.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 08:22 AM
Now noby brought Greise into this:wave:


**** Shanny! It's over. Deal with it, or close the mane and become a Cowboys fan.

Whatever you want to say about Griese, he's not as gutless as Jake is. When Griese got the hook, he wanted to stay around Denver, and said he would accept a back-up role. When Griese got the hook, he kept at it, and wound up getting chances with other teams. He didn't pout and wash out of the league because he had to compete to keep a job. And he certainly didn't start taking pot shots at the team and the way things were done.

Jake whines that he wasn't motivated enough to play. Apparently Shanahan wasn't giving him enough pats on the back or something. He was sure motivated enough to throw away nearly every big game he ever played in.

And I'm not going to close the Mane because you're a butt hurt Jake fan. What a stupid idea.

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 08:24 AM
Why is this thread still around? I don't care if Jake Plummer is bitter at Shanahan and I don't care if he thinks Cutler is Jeff George.

This thread is still around because Jake can't keep his pie hole shut.

Circle Orange
01-30-2009, 08:24 AM
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/01/16/20090116spt-bickley.html


After his time in Arizona was done, Plummer made a choice that would change his life. He decided against Chicago, where the bar for quarterbacks was set wonderfully low. He signed with Denver, where the shadow of John Elway swallows all.

Plummer has no regrets. He loved the city, the people and the fervor for football in Denver. But when offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak left to coach the Texans, everything changed. Plummer and coach Mike Shanahan weren't exactly peanut butter and bananas, and Plummer was eventually benched in favor of rookie Jay Cutler.

In the end, Plummer went from a culture of failure to a city with impossible standards. The death of Tillman affected him profoundly, planting seeds of rebellion. And when it all hit the wall in Denver, he walked out on the game and the people who had crushed his love for football.

"Shanahan was a great coach, to a certain level," Plummer said. "But I have to admit, I had a smile on my face when I heard he was fired. Not that it did me any good.

"I loved going out and competing, but it's tough when you're constantly second-guessed. I can still remember throwing a ball in practice, and I didn't know whether he was going to scream at me or say, 'Great play.' "

Peanut butter and bananas? Who EATS that stuff? :kiddingme

Meck77
01-30-2009, 08:33 AM
Whatever you want to say about Griese, he's not as gutless as Jake is. When Griese got the hook, he wanted to stay around Denver, and said he would accept a back-up role. When Griese got the hook, he kept at it, and wound up getting chances with other teams. He didn't pout and wash out of the league because he had to compete to keep a job. And he certainly didn't start taking pot shots at the team and the way things were done.

Jake whines that he wasn't motivated enough to play. Apparently Shanahan wasn't giving him enough pats on the back or something. He was sure motivated enough to throw away nearly every big game he ever played in.

And I'm not going to close the Mane because you're a butt hurt Jake fan. What a stupid idea.

You obviously weren't paying attention to the Griese era while he was in Denver. Those were dark times at camp and game days. There was nothing to be excited about back then. You can rewrite history all you want.

Jake on the other hand changed Denver from the very first training camp and brought consistent playoff football back to Denver.

The people that were in the stadium back then know what I'm talking about.

Besides Jake was a vet in the league when he was shown the door vs Griese who was still delusional that he could advance a team to the Superbowl.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 08:35 AM
You obviously weren't paying attention to the Griese era while he was in Denver. Those were dark times at camp and game days. There was nothing to be excited about back then. You can rewrite history all you want.

What? I never said anything about Griese era while he was in Denver. I commented about Griese and Jake after each got the hook.

Circle Orange
01-30-2009, 08:38 AM
Can I ask a question, did anyone else note that an article primarily about the Cards and essentially an AZ Jake fan's love letter to Jake is now somehow made about the Broncos? Who cares. this would only be controversy if Jay made negative statements about Shanny. Why is Jake still taking up major thread titles years after he quit?

The power of the 'stache. Besides, I loved putting wigs on him. ;D

Circle Orange
01-30-2009, 08:47 AM
When is Shanahan to Philly thread going to appear?

What? I heard he was headed to Chicago! :sunshine:

Circle Orange
01-30-2009, 08:53 AM
Very good take TJ.

It's sad to think newer fans pray they do not see a play that was to us older fans a play that is reminiscent of the most exciting of times with Elway. It's even more disheartening now that we amazingly are once again blessed to have that rare talent behind center than can actually make that throw. I sure hope I see it when it's all that is left. It's the ability to make those kind of plays that defines franchise quarter back.

Truth be told, I'm seeing more strong armed qbs doing that stuff now. Whether the coaches are giving them more leeway, or aren't concerned I have no idea. A lot of guys throw like this, but they all don't release the same way. Problem is, sooner or later you're gonna get picks...defenders are too good and look for those 'tip drills.' I cringe every time I see a ball richochet in the air.

2KBack
01-30-2009, 09:32 AM
Wow, people this is sad. Chill out. Guess what, you're going to see lots of quotes from lots of high profile guys that played under shanahan. Jake is one of those guys, and we know the two weren't the best of friends. Quit dropping a duece everytime he's quoted.

Pontius Pirate
01-30-2009, 10:25 AM
[QUOTE=Taco John;2272904]

Jake whines that he wasn't motivated enough to play. Apparently Shanahan wasn't giving him enough pats on the back or something. He was sure motivated enough to throw away nearly every big game he ever played in.

QUOTE]

The irony of that statement is that Jake was one of the biggest rah-rah motivators on the team when he was QB. Jay on the other hand sits on the sideline and doesn't talk to anyone.

I say Jake has the right to speak his mind. He, above anyone here, knew what it was like to play for Shanahan.

TonyR
01-30-2009, 11:55 AM
According to Plummer, Shanahan had become “increasingly obsessed” with where the Broncos ranked statistically instead of focusing on winning games.

“It’s hard on a team,” Plummer said. “We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers.”

“It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I’ve been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more.”

Very interesting.

Meck77
01-30-2009, 11:58 AM
According to Plummer, Shanahan had become “increasingly obsessed” with where the Broncos ranked statistically instead of focusing on winning games.

“It’s hard on a team,” Plummer said. “We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers.”

“It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I’ve been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more.”

Very interesting.

Good job Mr. Bowlen.

theAPAOps5
01-30-2009, 12:29 PM
Good job Mr. Bowlen.

Eh I wasn't against the move and wasn't for it. But saying good job because some disgruntled player took a pot is kind of a stretch. Plummer sulked because he barely showed up to OTA's coach Shanahan hated that and he rarely treated the players who failed to give them their all with respect. As should be.

He also took a run at Cutler calling him Jeff George and the local media are running with that. Scott Hastings and Alfred Williams are feeling vindicated because they have been saying that for weeks.

All in all its pretty week, Cutler still has growing to do and has gotten better. Plummer, well he got worse.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 12:34 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew1113toon.gif

theAPAOps5
01-30-2009, 12:36 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew1113toon.gif

exactly its called preparation

Bronx33
01-30-2009, 12:42 PM
exactly its called preparation


Sadly that wasn't even enough for ole jake.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 12:43 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/Drew1023toon.gif

Taco John
01-30-2009, 12:44 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew0911toon.gif

TheReverend
01-30-2009, 12:45 PM
According to Plummer, Shanahan had become “increasingly obsessed” with where the Broncos ranked statistically instead of focusing on winning games.

“It’s hard on a team,” Plummer said. “We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers.”

“It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I’ve been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more.”

Very interesting.

A. It was probably an offense meeting and B. The offense completely deserved it. They were being carried by the D through that entire stretch

Bronx33
01-30-2009, 12:48 PM
Drew litton is the best!

Taco John
01-30-2009, 12:49 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew1128toon.gif

TonyR
01-30-2009, 12:52 PM
But saying good job because some disgruntled player took a pot is kind of a stretch.

Speaking not out of bitterness but in his relaxed, if straightforward, manner in a telephone interview from his home in Sandpoint, Idaho...

TonyR
01-30-2009, 12:58 PM
He also took a run at Cutler calling him Jeff George...

I don't know that I agree with this. Here's the exact quote:

"He's a great quarterback, don't get me wrong," Plummer said. "I'm not saying anything to disrespect him. I think he's a helluva player. But Jeff George was a helluva player. There's a lot of guys who have been great players."

I think Jake is right that Jay needs to improve if he wants to be more than Jeff George. And that's not a shot from me any more than it was from Plummer.

Bronx33
01-30-2009, 01:04 PM
I don't know that I agree with this. Here's the exact quote:

"He's a great quarterback, don't get me wrong," Plummer said. "I'm not saying anything to disrespect him. I think he's a helluva player. But Jeff George was a helluva player. There's a lot of guys who have been great players."

I think Jake is right that Jay needs to improve if he wants to be more than Jeff George. And that's not a shot from me any more than it was from Plummer.


I never really reguarded jake as an expert of football talent and he should have refrained himself from predicting the future of anybody else.

NASurfer
01-30-2009, 01:39 PM
According to Plummer, Shanahan had become “increasingly obsessed” with where the Broncos ranked statistically instead of focusing on winning games.

“It’s hard on a team,” Plummer said. “We were 7-2 at one point my last year and we came out of a meeting with our heads bowed and we were all just sulking around like we had just been berated for not putting up 40 points, for not leading the league in offense, for not creating enough turnovers.”

“It was a weird style to be coached that way. It really took it out of you as a player. I’ve been on 2-7 teams that had better attitudes coming out of team meetings than oftentimes when we came out of team meetings after Shanahan felt a need to motivate us even more.”

Very interesting.
Normally I stay out of Jake threads but that's freaking ridiculous. It's called improving on the weak points of your game dumbass (Jake).

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 01:43 PM
I think Jake has been buying these at the local grocery store in Idaho:

TonyR
01-30-2009, 01:52 PM
I think Jake has been buying these at the local grocery store in Idaho:

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it this way. To me that's just not who Jake is by all appearances. If it was I think he'd still be playing and trying to prove Shanahan and the Broncos wrong. But that doesn't appear to be who/what Jake Plummer is. Think about it. How much whining and complaining have you heard coming from Jake the past few years? He's generally laid low and stayed quiet. He got asked some questions and he gave honest answers. I think people are trying to make this whole thing something it's just not.

Pontius Pirate
01-30-2009, 01:58 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it this way. To me that's just not who Jake is by all appearances. If it was I think he'd still be playing and trying to prove Shanahan and the Broncos wrong. But that doesn't appear to be who/what Jake Plummer is. Think about it. How much whining and complaining have you heard coming from Jake the past few years? He's generally laid low and stayed quiet. He got asked some questions and he gave honest answers. I think people are trying to make this whole thing something it's just not.


Agreed.

Rock Chalk
01-30-2009, 01:59 PM
I think Jake has been buying these at the local grocery store in Idaho:

Taco shops at the same store.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 02:02 PM
Taco shops at the same store.

Hahaha! The most bitter guy in the history of this board wants to make a point about me being bitter!

LOL

TheReverend
01-30-2009, 02:03 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it this way. To me that's just not who Jake is by all appearances. If it was I think he'd still be playing and trying to prove Shanahan and the Broncos wrong. But that doesn't appear to be who/what Jake Plummer is. Think about it. How much whining and complaining have you heard coming from Jake the past few years? He's generally laid low and stayed quiet. He got asked some questions and he gave honest answers. I think people are trying to make this whole thing something it's just not.

So, we're talking sheer coincidence the only people he talks negatively about are Shanahan and Jay Cutler? The two "conspirators" in replacing him?

Pontius Pirate
01-30-2009, 02:10 PM
So, we're talking sheer coincidence the only people he talks negatively about are Shanahan and Jay Cutler? The two "conspirators" in replacing him?

I think he said Jay was a helluva player, didn't he? How is he talking negatively about Jay? What, the Jeff George comment is really that big of a dig? Please. It's not like he called him Trent Dilfer.

So, it would be better for you if Jake was bashing everyone on the team, huh?

Taco John
01-30-2009, 02:15 PM
I wanted Jake to succeed. He's from my home state, and I thought it would have been cool for an Idaho boy to lead the Broncos to the Superbowl. But the bottom line is no matter how great the wins were during the regular season, when Jake played in big games for us, he put more pressure on our defense than he did the opponents defense. And that's beside the point of how good or bad our defense was. That's a completely different issue.

It reminds me of this past season when there was all that talk of Donovan McNabb losing his job going into a big Sunday Night game. Jake was in exactly that situation against Kansas City. Donovan took the criticism, and went out there and kicked ass. Jake, on the other hand, imploded - just like anyone could have guessed he'd do, since that's what he did in big games.

And now for Jake to come out and start criticizing Shanahan from a handball court in Idaho - it comes off like a really bad joke.

Just look at his QB rating career stats:

1997 - 73.1
1998 - 75.0
1999 - 50.8
2000 - 66.0
2001 - 79.6
2002 - 65.7
2003 - 91.2
2004 - 84.5
2005 - 90.2
2006 - 68.8

Whatever Jake wants to say about not getting enough hugs and kisses from Shanahan, what he can't deny is that Shanahan was able to get the most out of him.

Jake's problem then and now isn't Shanahan. Jake's problem rest between his ears.

TonyR
01-30-2009, 02:15 PM
So, we're talking sheer coincidence the only people he talks negatively about are Shanahan and Jay Cutler? The two "conspirators" in replacing him?

I hear what you're saying, but it's not like he went out of the way to bash anybody. And he really didn't "bash" Jay in my opinion.

And I think Jake having negative opinions/feelings toward Shanahan, and to a lesser extent Cutler, is both understandable and human nature, right or wrong.

baja
01-30-2009, 02:16 PM
I think Jake has been buying these at the local grocery store in Idaho:

Say what you want about Jake but he has always spoke his mind and showed distain for NFL PC double speak that Shanny was/is the master at.

baja
01-30-2009, 02:18 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it this way. To me that's just not who Jake is by all appearances. If it was I think he'd still be playing and trying to prove Shanahan and the Broncos wrong. But that doesn't appear to be who/what Jake Plummer is. Think about it. How much whining and complaining have you heard coming from Jake the past few years? He's generally laid low and stayed quiet. He got asked some questions and he gave honest answers. I think people are trying to make this whole thing something it's just not.

True Tony

baja
01-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Hahaha! The most bitter guy in the history of this board wants to make a point about me being bitter!

LOL

I think we should have a poll

TonyR
01-30-2009, 02:20 PM
Whatever Jake wants to say about not getting enough hugs and kisses from Shanahan, what he can't deny is that Shanahan was able to get the most out of him.

Jake's problem then and now isn't Shanahan.

I agree with this. I also think he had better talent and a better organization around him in Denver than he did in Arizona. But while everybody easily dismisses what he's saying as sour grapes, what he's saying could also be true and might be part of the reason Mike Shanahan is no longer coaching the Denver Broncos.

baja
01-30-2009, 02:21 PM
So, we're talking sheer coincidence the only people he talks negatively about are Shanahan and Jay Cutler? The two "conspirators" in replacing him?

ya think it might be because those were the only two people he was asked about???

TheReverend
01-30-2009, 02:23 PM
I hear what you're saying, but it's not like he went out of the way to bash anybody. And he really didn't "bash" Jay in my opinion.

And I think Jake having negative opinions/feelings toward Shanahan, and to a lesser extent Cutler, is both understandable and human nature, right or wrong.

Oh absolutely. And I'm actually a pretty big Plummer fan. But it's also completely ****ing clear to me that in 2006 he was NOT producing at a satisfactory level for an NFL QB, let alone a Mike Shanahan NFL QB.

Jake lost his job, and his human nature is showing. He's an awesome guy but he's exhibiting a lot of "I'm taking my ball and going home. Even if 7 million is left on the table in Tampa. **** you guys"

baja
01-30-2009, 02:26 PM
I agree with this. I also think he had better talent and a better organization around him in Denver than he did in Arizona. But while everybody easily dismisses what he's saying as sour grapes, what he's saying could also be true and might be part of the reason Mike Shanahan is no longer coaching the Denver Broncos.

We all get nick names defining our personality fairly accurately, Shanny's was "The Little Man upstairs"

TonyR
01-30-2009, 02:27 PM
But it's also completely ****ing clear to me that in 2006 he was NOT producing at a satisfactory level for an NFL QB, let alone a Mike Shanahan NFL QB.


Yes, this should be clear to everyone. I'm certainly not one of those "we should have stuck with Jake" people. I just don't have a problem with what he said in this interview.

Kaylore
01-30-2009, 02:29 PM
Oh absolutely. And I'm actually a pretty big Plummer fan. But it's also completely ****ing clear to me that in 2006 he was NOT producing at a satisfactory level for an NFL QB, let alone a Mike Shanahan NFL QB.

Jake lost his job, and his human nature is showing. He's an awesome guy but he's exhibiting a lot of "I'm taking my ball and going home. Even if 7 million is left on the table in Tampa. **** you guys"

That's what it comes down to. Especially the dig on Cutler. I'm having trouble understanding what Cutler had to do with the "question" Plummer was asked in regards to Shanahan. And people that say it wasn't a dig on Cutler are stupid. He compared Cutler to Jeff George purposely knowing that his win percentage is better than Cutler's and that Cutler is a more athletically gifted player than Plummer. Plummer is behaving emotionally and needs to get over it.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 02:33 PM
I agree with this. I also think he had better talent and a better organization around him in Denver than he did in Arizona. But while everybody easily dismisses what he's saying as sour grapes, what he's saying could also be true and might be part of the reason Mike Shanahan is no longer coaching the Denver Broncos.

Whatever the reason Shanahan got fired - and whether it was justified or not - Jake has no business talking about it from a handball court in Idaho.

Jake's play against Kansas City when everything was on the line speaks louder than any of this anyways. He completely choked when it was time to shine. He wants to blame this on Shanahan?

Pontius Pirate
01-30-2009, 02:41 PM
Whatever the reason Shanahan got fired - and whether it was justified or not - Jake has no business talking about it from a handball court in Idaho.

Jake's play against Kansas City when everything was on the line speaks louder than any of this anyways. He completely choked when it was time to shine. He wants to blame this on Shanahan?

You're delusional if you think that a QB can't comment on his former coach.

Bronx33
01-30-2009, 02:44 PM
Heres a train pontious

http://www.treehugger.com/amtral-celebrates-national-train-day.jpg


Sorry but you missed it.

Pontius Pirate
01-30-2009, 02:48 PM
Who's coming with me?
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.phpi/0068f0bf/BusyTrain.jpg?cb=1115204527

summerdenver
01-30-2009, 02:50 PM
I like Jake but he is out of the line here for taking a dig at Jay.

Jay is far from perfect but he is no Jeff George. If i recall an article about George, most of his problems arise from the fact he is afraid of getting hit and lost the respect of his team mates because of that. No one in their right mind can say that Cutler lacks courage especially after last year.

Cutler's problems stem from the fact that he lets the poor play of his team mates affect his play. You can call it lack of leadership or lack of trust in team mates or whatever else but i think atleat part of it is because he tries too hard and puts too much pressure on himself.

Nice job TJ for digging up those cartoons. Drew is the best. Whether you are pro or against Jake, you have to love them.

Pontius Pirate
01-30-2009, 02:53 PM
“I think it’s a good thing,” Cutler said. “Looking back on it, obviously everyone was shocked to see Mike go. But a month removed from it, I can kind of see the reasoning why he had to make the move. You’re at a place so long the stuff gets repetitive, you hear the same stories, the same talks."

Looks like Jake and Jay actually see eye-to-eye when it comes to Shana-canned.

baja
01-30-2009, 02:56 PM
Whatever the reason <b>Shanahan got fired - and whether it was justified or not - Jake has no business talking about it from a handball court in Idaho. </b>

Jake's play against Kansas City when everything was on the line speaks louder than any of this anyways. He completely choked when it was time to shine. He wants to blame this on Shanahan?

Why the hell not, did he sign a gag order when he retired? It's supposedly still a free country and Jake has every right in the world to be interviewed and to give his opinion on any damn thing he wishes to including your personal sacred cow Mike Shanahan.

TonyR
01-30-2009, 03:01 PM
Why the hell not, did he sign a gag order when he retired? It's supposedly still a free country and Jake has every right in the world to be interviewed and to give his opinion on any damn thing he wishes to including your personal sacred cow Mike Shanahan.

I agree, and like I said before he didn't go out of his way to make these comments. Compare this to what Joe Torre is doing right now. HUGE difference on many levels.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 03:17 PM
Why the hell not...

Becuase of how badly it reflects on himself. Jake can flap his gums all he wants about not getting his hand held by Shanahan. But at the end of the day, all it does is open an old wound and shows us why this guy couldn't hack it in the NFL: poor judgement.

I'm not trying to take away his "freedom of speech" (::) as though this is a first amendment issue ::) ), I'm just saying, "dude, shut up. You played your way out of a job, and then quit. Every thing you say comes off as some kind of half-assed rationalization for why you couldn't hack it."

TonyR
01-30-2009, 03:22 PM
Jake can flap his gums all he wants...

That's just it, as I've expressed previously in this thread, he's hardly "flapped his gums". How many negative comments have you heard from him towards the Broncos since he left? I think some of you are more hung up about it at this point than he is.

Taco John
01-30-2009, 03:30 PM
That's just it, as I've expressed previously in this thread, he's hardly "flapped his gums".


Sure he did. There's a couple of articles an 13 pages of reaction posted about it in this thread.

baja
01-30-2009, 04:12 PM
<b>Becuase of how badly it reflects on himself. </b> Jake can flap his gums all he wants about not getting his hand held by Shanahan. But at the end of the day, all it does is open an old wound and shows us why this guy couldn't hack it in the NFL: poor judgement.

I'm not trying to take away his "freedom of speech" (::) as though this is a first amendment issue ::) ), I'm just saying, "dude, shut up. You played your way out of a job, and then quit. Every thing you say comes off as some kind of half-assed rationalization for why you couldn't hack it."

What the hell do you care how it looks. You are starting to make a lot of disingenuous statements to cover your poor takes TJ. I hope you don't think we are so dim that you can slide that by. Regardless of how he played he is completely entitled to his opinion. The sole reason you don't like it is because it involves Shanahan and it is negative.

Broncomutt
01-30-2009, 04:13 PM
I wanted Jake to succeed. He's from my home state, and I thought it would have been cool for an Idaho boy to lead the Broncos to the Superbowl. But the bottom line is no matter how great the wins were during the regular season, when Jake played in big games for us, he put more pressure on our defense than he did the opponents defense. And that's beside the point of how good or bad our defense was. That's a completely different issue.

It reminds me of this past season when there was all that talk of Donovan McNabb losing his job going into a big Sunday Night game. Jake was in exactly that situation against Kansas City. Donovan took the criticism, and went out there and kicked ass. Jake, on the other hand, imploded - just like anyone could have guessed he'd do, since that's what he did in big games.

And now for Jake to come out and start criticizing Shanahan from a handball court in Idaho - it comes off like a really bad joke.

Just look at his QB rating career stats:

1997 - 73.1
1998 - 75.0
1999 - 50.8
2000 - 66.0
2001 - 79.6
2002 - 65.7
2003 - 91.2
2004 - 84.5
2005 - 90.2
2006 - 68.8

Whatever Jake wants to say about not getting enough hugs and kisses from Shanahan, what he can't deny is that Shanahan was able to get the most out of him.

Jake's problem then and now isn't Shanahan. Jake's problem rest between his ears.

Comparing a Bidwell owned team to a Bowlen owned team??

Seriously?? ???

Popps
01-30-2009, 10:33 PM
Becuase of how badly it reflects on himself. Jake can flap his gums all he wants about not getting his hand held by Shanahan. But at the end of the day, all it does is open an old wound and shows us why this guy couldn't hack it in the NFL: poor judgement.

I'm not trying to take away his "freedom of speech" (::) as though this is a first amendment issue ::) ), I'm just saying, "dude, shut up. You played your way out of a job, and then quit. Every thing you say comes off as some kind of half-assed rationalization for why you couldn't hack it."

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you here... to a point.

Shanahan made Plummer what he was in Denver. Jake had limited skills but was a gamer and fit nicely into specific game-plans Shanahan put together. Guys also liked playing with him. That was never in question.

But, Jake sounds a little bitter and should probably just let it go. But, someone did put a mic in his face. So, he had the option of just taking the no-comment route, but isn't that kind of guy.

That said, think back... Shanahan drove Shannon Sharpe out of town, and he was also an undisputed team leader. Shanahan is a harsh man who has pretty much been a guy who'll turn on you in an instant. He's had acrimonious relationships with many players.

So, while Jake probably should have just said no comment, and sure... he played poorly to finish his career in Denver, I also have no doubt that Shanahan probably helped create that relationship.

Shanahan has always struck me as a guy who'd shank you in the back the second he didn't need you. He learned some of that up in San Francisco, an organization that wasn't known for ending relationships well. But, Shanahan was a winner and as someone said many moons ago on a message board far away... "if you want to win a Superbowl, some feelings might get hurt along the way." Very true.

I have a feeling both parties were culpable for things going south in 06. But, we'll never really know what was said or how things were handled.

We were a winning franchise with Plummer at QB, though... like him or not.

I look forward to being able to say the same thing about Jay, and I believe we will very soon.

SouthStndJunkie
01-30-2009, 10:46 PM
But, Jake sounds a little bitter and should probably just let it go. But, someone did put a mic in his face. So, he had the option of just taking the no-comment route, but isn't that kind of guy.


Speaking not out of bitterness but in his relaxed, if straightforward, manner in a telephone interview from his home in Sandpoint, Idaho

Jake's last comments were made via an interview over the telephone.

I have no problem with Jake speaking his mind....but I always liked to think of Jake as the guy that walked away from the game and never looked back and did not care what went on in the game when he left....not a guy taking pot shots at his old coach.

I prefer happy go lucky Jake in Idaho....not an ex-player with bitterness.

BroncoBuff
01-30-2009, 10:48 PM
I will always believe that Jake's mind was simply too weak to deal with a challenge to his job. He started all through high school, all 4 years in college, and backed up Kent Graham for just the first 10 games as a rookie before he became the starter. After that he started every single game as an NFL player - without being pressed for a job - until Cutler came along.

Jake's trouble had very little to do with Shanahan ... he just couldn't stand the pressure.

Miss I.
01-30-2009, 11:05 PM
This is on page 14...Just out of curiosity, but when will Jake stop making news on this forum. I mean, he's been gone for 3 years now more or less (more if you count how his last season went). I liked the guy despite his ASU affiliation and the fact that he could a total arrogant butthead and tended to try to do more then he was capable (I can relate to that). He's retired, but entitled to an opinion (this is America). Likely he addressed Shanny and Cutler because the interviewer directed those questions specifially because of the possible drama it would create knowing Jake's history with Shanny. He's been pretty quiet since he left the game and I hope he's happy doing what he is, sounds like he is. I have heard worse stuff out of the mouths of current players about any number of topics. Fundamentally, Jake is not news in the NFL anymore or for us, I appreciate his efforts (good and bad) and wish him well in his current life. Now I should continue to improve my mind with reruns of South Park and my new favorite wine.

And oh yes to quote a few of my favorites:
"he would break off 2K in our system." "I would hit it" "It's Griese's fault" "Throat punch, throat punch, throat punch." ;)

Taco John
01-31-2009, 12:34 AM
Believe it or not, I actually agree with you here... to a point.

Shanahan made Plummer what he was in Denver. Jake had limited skills but was a gamer and fit nicely into specific game-plans Shanahan put together. Guys also liked playing with him. That was never in question.

But, Jake sounds a little bitter and should probably just let it go. But, someone did put a mic in his face. So, he had the option of just taking the no-comment route, but isn't that kind of guy.

That said, think back... Shanahan drove Shannon Sharpe out of town, and he was also an undisputed team leader. Shanahan is a harsh man who has pretty much been a guy who'll turn on you in an instant. He's had acrimonious relationships with many players.

So, while Jake probably should have just said no comment, and sure... he played poorly to finish his career in Denver, I also have no doubt that Shanahan probably helped create that relationship.

Shanahan has always struck me as a guy who'd shank you in the back the second he didn't need you. He learned some of that up in San Francisco, an organization that wasn't known for ending relationships well. But, Shanahan was a winner and as someone said many moons ago on a message board far away... "if you want to win a Superbowl, some feelings might get hurt along the way." Very true.

I have a feeling both parties were culpable for things going south in 06. But, we'll never really know what was said or how things were handled.

We were a winning franchise with Plummer at QB, though... like him or not.

I look forward to being able to say the same thing about Jay, and I believe we will very soon.



Any good coach would have had to stick his foot on Plummer's throat to get anything out of him. Think about Gruden and Gannon. Gannon was essentially Jake, but much more mature and able to handle pressure. That's why Gruden wanted Jake so badly. He wanted to see if he could get Jake to take control and fight back. Jake was always good about fighting back - but not so much about taking control (and handling the pressure).

Shanahan didn't necessarily want Jake to fight back, but he definitely wanted him to handle the pressure, take what was there, and not throw a stupid interception and put unecessary pressure on the defense. Jay is able to do the first two (for the most part) but he still has some trouble with the third one.

Taco John
01-31-2009, 12:35 AM
This is on page 14...Just out of curiosity, but when will Jake stop making news on this forum.


Bubby Brister just made news on this forum.

baja
01-31-2009, 06:07 AM
This is on page 14...Just out of curiosity, but when will Jake stop making news on this forum. I mean, he's been gone for 3 years now more or less (more if you count how his last season went). I liked the guy despite his ASU affiliation and the fact that he could a total arrogant butthead and tended to try to do more then he was capable (I can relate to that). He's retired, but entitled to an opinion (this is America). Likely he addressed Shanny and Cutler because the interviewer directed those questions specifially because of the possible drama it would create knowing Jake's history with Shanny. He's been pretty quiet since he left the game and I hope he's happy doing what he is, sounds like he is. I have heard worse stuff out of the mouths of current players about any number of topics. Fundamentally, Jake is not news in the NFL anymore or for us, I appreciate his efforts (good and bad) and wish him well in his current life. Now I should continue to improve my mind with reruns of South Park and my new favorite wine.

And oh yes to quote a few of my favorites:
"he would break off 2K in our system." "I would hit it" "It's Griese's fault" "Throat punch, throat punch, throat punch." ;)

"I would hit it" is one of your favorite phrases? Dude you are a dude, fess up.

Miss I.
01-31-2009, 07:58 AM
"I would hit it" is one of your favorite phrases? Dude you are a dude, fess up.

No, I just find Spider's catch phrases funny.:egbgb:

Shananahan
06-05-2012, 07:44 PM
Might as well have this one on the front page while we're busy discussing Tebow, Cutler and whether or not Manning sucks.

ghwk
06-05-2012, 07:51 PM
Wow! Reached back to '09 for this one! Well done!

bronco militia
06-05-2012, 07:58 PM
Jake the Mistake

sgbfan
06-05-2012, 11:07 PM
This is on page 14...Just out of curiosity, but when will Jake stop making news on this forum. I mean, he's been gone for 3 years now more or less (more if you count how his last season went). I liked the guy despite his ASU affiliation and the fact that he could a total arrogant butthead and tended to try to do more then he was capable (I can relate to that). He's retired, but entitled to an opinion (this is America). Likely he addressed Shanny and Cutler because the interviewer directed those questions specifially because of the possible drama it would create knowing Jake's history with Shanny. He's been pretty quiet since he left the game and I hope he's happy doing what he is, sounds like he is. I have heard worse stuff out of the mouths of current players about any number of topics. Fundamentally, Jake is not news in the NFL anymore or for us, I appreciate his efforts (good and bad) and wish him well in his current life. Now I should continue to improve my mind with reruns of South Park and my new favorite wine.

And oh yes to quote a few of my favorites:
"he would break off 2K in our system." "I would hit it" "It's Griese's fault" "Throat punch, throat punch, throat punch." ;)

This was funny. If only Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, Shanahan, McDaniels etc... could go away like Plummer did. I won't even begin to fathom how long Tebow will be brought up on this forum.

Jason in LA
06-06-2012, 01:11 AM
Plummer is just an ass.

lonestar
06-06-2012, 01:56 AM
I like Jake as well....just think he is better than taking pot shots from Idaho.

Shanny elevated Jake's game to another level.

If anything KUbes did the elevating. He was the one that helped Jake improve, he designed the offense each week ans called the plays from the booth.

When he left so did the offense. And any semblance of love for Jake the winningest % wise QB denver has had.

Do not blame him at all.

rbackfactory80
06-06-2012, 03:17 AM
make it stop.

Hulamau
06-06-2012, 10:24 AM
I'm guessing the over/under for this particular Jake/Shanahan thread is 6 pages...

Looks like you underestimated here TD :-)... 12 pages and growing....

Shanny did some wonderful things for us for years and forever holds a bright spot in the Bronco pantheon .. but he could also be an a-hole and a bit of a tyrant to players and others who got on his wrong side and then find themselves in his dog house long term as well, which from all reports was amazingly easy to do and not easy at all to get out of once you were on his **** list.

The little Napoleon complex was alive and well in Shanny for sure ... like with most of us flawed human beings you take the good with the not so good in everyone.. ...

Prodigal19
06-06-2012, 10:28 AM
brb, finding a Griese thread to bump

DENVERDUI55
06-06-2012, 10:40 AM
It's true that I think a lot of Shanny's success can be pointed to Kubiak. Shanny is the QB guru Kubiak is the one that should have that title.

lonestar
06-06-2012, 12:37 PM
It's true that I think a lot of Shanny's success can be pointed to Kubiak. Shanny is the QB guru Kubiak is the one that should have that title.

Good thought however I'm not all that sure that Tanahan was all the successful..

did he win games and keep the fans placated? yes.

were his offenses some of the most prolific going? yes between the 20's

Did he win any play off games without John? Yes one and then the team got its ass kicked a week later.

Did he build a solid team for all those years? IMO he won games with smoke and mirrors and then folded like a cheap tent in a medium wind late in the season and especially in play offs..

Without HOF players his teams were average.. with out the Smoke and mirrors he would not have been here for half his tenure..

Did he ever have a real GM reporting to him or just yes men?

Did he ever pay any attention to defense?

Did his teams ever have the ability to consistently run the ball inside the red zone?

If it was not for Elam how many games would he have squeaked by with?

How many years in his EOS presser did he say we were one or two players away from the brass ring?

How many years in his EOS presser did he say we have to fix the red zone problem?

How many years did he have to ask his big contract folks to redo their contract because we were always in cap hell?

SOrry but when you look objectively past the few extra wins he gave the team what did he really do to it?

Tanahan was a bully that had all the power and screwed this franchise with year after year of lousy player deals and even more so abysmal DAFTING..

Taco John
06-06-2012, 01:01 PM
I hate June.

55CrushEm
06-06-2012, 01:42 PM
I hate June.

LOL

lonestar
06-06-2012, 06:57 PM
I hate June.

Lockhart?

Taco John
06-06-2012, 09:07 PM
Jones.

ThirtyDegrees
06-06-2012, 10:59 PM
Lol, TJ would defend Shanahan's honor to the death.

I really wonder why he doesn't just become a Redskins fan.

broncocalijohn
06-06-2012, 11:44 PM
I hate June.

Screw you Commie!

ghostofjosh
06-07-2012, 03:07 AM
just go away plummer, nobody cares anymore

SPORTSWRITER
06-07-2012, 04:35 AM
I smiled to Jake...I smiled for both of us. Jake was ok in my book... the Tillman death really messed him up.

I agree 100%! Jake's mental and emotional "lapses" could be traced right back to Pat Tillman's accidental slaughter by fire from his own "friendly" troops! It really affected Jake, as he and Pat were good buddies with the Cards. I truly believe he lost his passion for the game after Tillman's death, and with it his concentration, causing bad on and off the field behavior. I will never forget the pic showing Plummer flipping off some fans in the stands behind him while he sat on the bench during a home game. That was very unprofessional, and very, very UN-Jake-like!! I'd always heard that he was a really well-liked team mate and popular and accomodating to fans most of the time.