PDA

View Full Version : McDaniels--As QB Coach


Hallside
01-16-2009, 08:42 PM
I was just browsing when I ran into a link to this old Bill Walsh Stanford football document collection. [http://www.scribd.com/doc/2939769/1985-Stanford-University-QB-Manual-Bill-Walsh-232-pages]

Anyway, I was reading it and I came across this passage:

“We talk about the hitch step when we throw the football. This hitch step is so important just before you throw the ball. You cross over and bounce and get that body weight going forward. You hope that when you throw the ball, your body weight is going forward. So many great quarterbacks over the years have been coached, for some god awful reason to stand erect before the ball. That’s like a guy waiting for a rebound with his legs locked. What he should be doing is be in a hitting position like any other football player you’ve got, with his knees bent and his feet moving. The cross over and the hitch step is [sic] very important.”

Then I remembered some piece on ESPN or NFLN last year about Tom Brady. And one of the commentators was complimenting Brady's form: standing "erect before the ball."

It would appear, therefore, based on my faulty memory anyway,that McDaniels and Walsh have very different ideas about what would seem to me basic football mechanics. And at least Walsh seems to think this difference is very important.

I ask the OM community:

1. Who has carried the day in this apparent controversy over QB mechanics, Walsh or the "great quarterbacks" and their coaches over the years? Does it depend on scheme/style?

2. Assuming there is this fundamental difference, what impact will it have on Jay Cutler's play?

3. Can anyone confirm my memory that Tom Brady's style is to basically stand erect before the throw?


[EDIT: Scroll down to see the very relevant videos Taco John linked]

Mr Chatterboodamn
01-16-2009, 09:03 PM
Unfortunately, this is way too deep for the mane.

Rulon Velvet Jones
01-16-2009, 09:19 PM
It's difficult for Brady not to be erect when standing behind 5 dudes.

Taco John
01-16-2009, 09:38 PM
I was just browsing when I ran into a link to this old Bill Walsh Stanford football document collection. [http://www.scribd.com/doc/2939769/1985-Stanford-University-QB-Manual-Bill-Walsh-232-pages]

Anyway, I was reading it and I came across this passage:

“We talk about the hitch step when we throw the football. This hitch step is so important just before you throw the ball. You cross over and bounce and get that body weight going forward. You hope that when you throw the ball, your body weight is going forward. So many great quarterbacks over the years have been coached, for some god awful reason to stand erect before the ball. That’s like a guy waiting for a rebound with his legs locked. What he should be doing is be in a hitting position like any other football player you’ve got, with his knees bent and his feet moving. The cross over and the hitch step is [sic] very important.”

Then I remembered some piece on ESPN or NFLN last year about Tom Brady. And one of the commentators was complimenting Brady's form: standing "erect before the ball."

It would appear, therefore, based on my faulty memory anyway,that McDaniels and Walsh have very different ideas about what would seem to me basic football mechanics. And at least Walsh seems to think this difference is very important.

I ask the OM community:

1. Who has carried the day in this apparent controversy over QB mechanics, Walsh or the "great quarterbacks" and their coaches over the years? Does it depend on scheme/style?

2. Assuming there is this fundamental difference, what impact will it have on Jay Cutler's play?

3. Can anyone confirm my memory that Tom Brady's style is to basically stand erect before the throw?



An astute observation. Tom Brady's style is definitely to stand erect.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RHMFq4EETHQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RHMFq4EETHQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Montana, on the other hand, definitely used the hitch step:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x63fX8coUho&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x63fX8coUho&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


You'll see in this video, Elway often used the hitch step:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RzPd_CMHDsg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RzPd_CMHDsg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

If you look at Cutler highlight videos from 2007, you don't see the hitch step very much because he was on the run a lot more, but when you look at videos from 2008, you see it a lot more.

It's an interesting observation. It makes you wonder how it might affect his development this next year if he's asked to change his mechanics. Something to look for...

OABB
01-16-2009, 09:59 PM
It's difficult for Brady not to be erect when standing behind 5 dudes.

lol!

BroncoMan4ever
01-16-2009, 10:00 PM
i don't think that Brady's odd stance is something he was taught by McDaniels. he has had that same way of standing straight up when throwing since he came into the league. it isn't a new thing he developed since McDaniels became his QB Coach.

I also seriously doubt that McDaniels will try to alter anything in the way Jay throws or stands in the pocket, but will try to help him with reads and get it into Jay's head that it is ok to throw the ball short even if he has the strongest arm in the league.

yerner
01-16-2009, 10:02 PM
It's difficult for Brady not to be erect when standing behind 5 dudes.

bravo.

SportinOne
01-16-2009, 11:15 PM
Good joke, and also, to the poster of this thread, why not look at Matt Cassell? I think that would be a more accurate reading of McDaniels's philosophy on this. Pretty tough for a guy as young as McD to come in and tell Tom Brady, at the height of his performance, to change the way he throws the ball.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 01:45 AM
Interestingly, Brady was hitch stepping when he got injured this season:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dRpJ9UIu6XM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dRpJ9UIu6XM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Dark Helmet
01-17-2009, 07:20 AM
Unfortunately, I can't see video at work so I'll have to check it out later. However, I can speak to slightly bent knees as opposed to being completely erect at the point of release.
I think Cutler's mechanics needs some work. He's using his arm far too much rather than his entire body when throwing. That would explain some of the high and low passes....especially in the flat. He'll be able to increase his velocity and accuracy using a corkscrew motion. This method is fundamentally sound and part of many sports. It doesn't need to be a large motion as Bruce Lee used to demonstrate using the one inch punch.
Keeping the knees slightly bent through the entire throw would in my opinion limits injury. Keeping the knees slightly bent still allows the player to quickly move when needed as well. In comparison, staying completely erect would require the play to re-load their knees and hips before moving. Proof can be seen when watching Palmer and Brady when their injuries occurred....little hits turn into devastating blows due to the knee being locked.

alkemical
01-20-2009, 07:46 AM
Interestingly, Brady was hitch stepping when he got injured this season:



Maybe that's why bellicheck let him go.... (mcdaniels) ;)

cmhargrove
01-20-2009, 07:51 AM
i don't think that Brady's odd stance is something he was taught by McDaniels. he has had that same way of standing straight up when throwing since he came into the league. it isn't a new thing he developed since McDaniels became his QB Coach.

I also seriously doubt that McDaniels will try to alter anything in the way Jay throws or stands in the pocket, but will try to help him with reads and get it into Jay's head that it is ok to throw the ball short even if he has the strongest arm in the league.

Bingo.

Jay needs attitude adjustment and decision making help. Let the team win the game instead of a highlight throw into triple coverage. Look for the open man just beyond the chains insted of the covered guy 30 yards down the field.

That alone could have won us two more games this year.

alkemical
01-20-2009, 07:54 AM
See, i don't get on Cutler's **** too bad about "growing up". Cuz, well it took me till i was about 27 to start getting mature about certain areas of my life. I've also not been a star athelete most of my life, so i'm not sure or cannot answer about his level of douchebaggery...

Being a fan of the Pitt. Penguins, and seeing lots of young talent (Younger than NFL players) - it does take time for maturity to kick in. Piss and balls to the wall gets you then. I'm patient when it comes to learning on the job and growing processes.

It's just at a point in time, you know when someone's going to be a douche for life. Even then, sometimes douche's do good work at the office.

cmhargrove
01-20-2009, 08:12 AM
See, i don't get on Cutler's **** too bad about "growing up". Cuz, well it took me till i was about 27 to start getting mature about certain areas of my life. I've also not been a star athelete most of my life, so i'm not sure or cannot answer about his level of douchebaggery...

Being a fan of the Pitt. Penguins, and seeing lots of young talent (Younger than NFL players) - it does take time for maturity to kick in. Piss and balls to the wall gets you then. I'm patient when it comes to learning on the job and growing processes.

It's just at a point in time, you know when someone's going to be a douche for life. Even then, sometimes douche's do good work at the office.

I don't think there is any problem with Jay's "maturity." I think it is his job to learn how to make the proper decisions. As a matter of fact, he gets paid millions of dollars to lead a multi-million dollar organization towards a common goal. That goal is to win games. In order to win more, he needs to make better reads and hit the short routes that will extend a drive, and not lead to turnovers.

I love his fire and zeal, he just needs to look at the great QB's and learn what they do - make great decisions (not just great throws).