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View Full Version : Shanny to Tampa??!!?? (Raheem Morris got the job)


broncofan7
01-16-2009, 03:59 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/16/gruden-gone/

GRUDEN GONE!
Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 5:56 p.m.
The city that will be hosting the Super Bowl in 16 days suddenly is in the market for a new head coach.

According to Adam Schefter of NFLN, the Buccaneers have fired head coach Jon Gruden.

(Maybe, in hindsight, he should have taken the Tennessee job.)

There had been some quiet speculation that something could happen in Tampa, but with nearly three weeks since the last game Gruden had seemed safe.

The timing of the move makes us wonder whether the Bucs quietly have lined up a successor, with speculation sure to center on a guy who took two weeks off after unexpectedly being fired two weeks and three days ago, former Broncos coach Mike Shanahan.

Such a move would violate the Rooney Rule, which requires at least one minority candidate to be interviewed for each head-coaching vacancy. But if everyone involved is appropriately discreet, no one would have to know that someone like Shanahan already was lined up for the job.

It remains to be seen whether G.M. Bruce Allen stays or goes, since he was hired after Gruden arrived.

More to come, undoubtedly.

Add Tampa to the list of supposed Shanny destinations........

SureShot
01-16-2009, 04:01 PM
Imagine the tan Shanny could get in Tampa!

TDmvp
01-16-2009, 04:02 PM
can we fire Josh and hire him . maybe keep Josh and OQ , when he is old enough to take his diapers off maybe he can have the HC job..

SouthStndJunkie
01-16-2009, 04:02 PM
ALLEN GONE, TOO

Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 5:57 p.m. EST

The Buccaneers have officially announced the termination of head coach Jon Gruden.

And they’ve also fired G.M. Bruce Allen.

“We will be forever grateful to Jon for bringing us the Super Bowl title, and we thank Bruce for his contributions to our franchise,” said Buccaneers co-chairman Joel Glazer in a team-issued release. “However after careful consideration, we feel that this decision is in the best interest of our organization moving forward.”

The departure of both men puts the Bucs immediately in play for either a new G.M. and head coach or a new coach who’ll have full power over the personnel office.

And the Bucs are an attractive options. They’re scheduled to be $45 million under the cap for 2009. Just last week, Allen seemed to commit that ownership would spend the entire cap surplus in the coming year.

Hotrod
01-16-2009, 04:02 PM
Imagine the tan Shanny could get in Tampa!

LOL

If he is going somewhere I'm good with it being Tampa.

The MVPlaya
01-16-2009, 04:02 PM
I hate these stupid ass speculation threads... people act like feminine women around here, gossiping about bull****.

Well I guess it's what I should expect when people believe everything is about heart. :spit:

bowtown
01-16-2009, 04:03 PM
I'd say this is a pretty done deal. Kinda wish it had happened earlier. Wouldn't have minded bringing Gruden in for an interview.

2KBack
01-16-2009, 04:04 PM
Shanahan can be reunited with Griese and Tampa can have all the fun we had in the early aughts

ward63
01-16-2009, 04:06 PM
Gruden is mostly known for the offense right? If so, I'd much much rather bring him in as the OC and keep bringin in more ex-HC's

atomicbloke
01-16-2009, 04:06 PM
Imagine if that Jake Plummer trade to Tampa would have actually gone through and Jake had not retired was in fact starting QB for the Bucs....

That would be so hilarious....

crowebomber
01-16-2009, 04:10 PM
Shanahan would take it just to be reunited with Griese.:wiggle:

no-pseudo-fan
01-16-2009, 04:11 PM
That is the only thing that makes any sense. Why fire a coach 2 weeks after the season. All the best coaching candidates have been hired, and assistants are getting lined up. If not to hire Shanny, then why do it. Gruden and the GM were fingercuffing the owners daughter?

bowtown
01-16-2009, 04:14 PM
That is the only thing that makes any sense. Why fire a coach 2 weeks after the season. All the best coaching candidates have been hired, and assistants are getting lined up. If not to hire Shanny, then why do it. Gruden and the GM were fingercuffing the owners daughter?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2041/2483791713_a13b85e29e.jpg?v=0

TonyR
01-16-2009, 04:16 PM
Just this evening on WFAN-NY I heard Mike Francesa say he expects Shanahan to be hired in Dallas as some point this offseason.

Play2win
01-16-2009, 04:17 PM
Well, when you have a JOB... that comes along like this, you have to consider it... Hilarious!

theAPAOps5
01-16-2009, 04:17 PM
I'd say this is a pretty done deal. Kinda wish it had happened earlier. Wouldn't have minded bringing Gruden in for an interview.

I am glad he wasn't available.

bowtown
01-16-2009, 04:18 PM
Just this evening on WFAN-NY I heard Mike Francesa say he expects Shanahan to be hired in Dallas as some point this offseason.

Francesa is French for dumbass.

clint7
01-16-2009, 04:34 PM
When thinking of the next place of Shanahan, I figured Tampa. However, I thought it was going to be next season, not this season. Hope it works out for him.

MechanicalBull
01-16-2009, 04:38 PM
Just this evening on WFAN-NY I heard Mike Francesa say he expects Shanahan to be hired in Dallas as some point this offseason.

Francesa has been talking about the Shanny/Dallas rumor since he was fired. I don't think he has any concrete info and it just guessing since they have the offense and defense.

He did say today that he thinks Jerry Jones wants Garrett to be hired by STL so he will be off the hook for all that money he just gave him and will make it easier to fire Phillips or demote him to DC. This is what Francesa saying and he thinks who he is and isn't always right.

Broncos_OTM
01-16-2009, 04:41 PM
so if shanny is hired in Tampa does that mean pat is still on hook for 20 million?

baja
01-16-2009, 04:42 PM
Imagine the tan Shanny could get in Tampa!

Maybe that's why he was in Cabo, working on getting that tan so dark that he could qualify for the Rooney Rule...

Mediator12
01-16-2009, 04:42 PM
Shanahan would be a great fit in TB. They REALLY need QB and WR but they have a real defense and ST's. He could be GM and Coach. Plus, he could get back to FL.

I think this is just the RIGHT opportunity at the right time for Shanahan. IF he wants to coach next year, would you take TB or the STUPID CHIEFS!

baja
01-16-2009, 04:44 PM
ALLEN GONE, TOO

Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 5:57 p.m. EST

The Buccaneers have officially announced the termination of head coach Jon Gruden.

And they’ve also fired G.M. Bruce Allen.

“We will be forever grateful to Jon for bringing us the Super Bowl title, and we thank Bruce for his contributions to our franchise,” said Buccaneers co-chairman Joel Glazer in a team-issued release. “However after careful consideration, we feel that this decision is in the best interest of our organization moving forward.”

The departure of both men puts the Bucs immediately in play for either a new G.M. and head coach or a new coach who’ll have full power over the personnel office.

And the Bucs are an attractive options. They’re scheduled to be $45 million under the cap for 2009. Just last week, Allen seemed to commit that ownership would spend the entire cap surplus in the coming year.

Hello Mike Shanahan - I'm taking bets on this one.

SureShot
01-16-2009, 04:50 PM
Maybe that's why he was in Cabo, working on getting that tan so dark that he could qualify for the Rooney Rule...

You mean like the movie Soul Man?

http://www.reappropriate.com/content/soulman.jpg

Sassy
01-16-2009, 04:50 PM
Schefter was saying on NFLN that he thinks Morris might be the new HC

SureShot
01-16-2009, 04:51 PM
Shanahan would be a great fit in TB. They REALLY need QB and WR but they have a real defense and ST's. He could be GM and Coach. Plus, he could get back to FL.

I think this is just the RIGHT opportunity at the right time for Shanahan. IF he wants to coach next year, would you take TB or the STUPID CHIEFS!

He could also keep a closer eye on the Florida job and when Urban makes the jump to the NFL Shanny can have his dream job.

crowebomber
01-16-2009, 04:53 PM
Schefter was saying on NFLN that he thinks Morris might be the new HC

That one makes sense too, but they'll have to hire a GM. Since they fired the HC and GM at the same time it seems to point to someone who will do both. I don't know, is it 5 yet?

Hamrob
01-16-2009, 04:53 PM
Here's the deal. Bowlen went to dinner with the owner's from the Rams and the Bucs. They all pinky sweared that Denver would start fresh,with young blood and that Shanny would finally head to Florida to be the Bucs head coach and that the Rams would get Gruden and Allen.

This way...each team gets the coach they want....and are off the hook for the contracts of Shanny and Gruden.

Write it down!

Tombstone RJ
01-16-2009, 04:56 PM
I hate these stupid ass speculation threads... people act like feminine women around here, gossiping about bull****.

Well I guess it's what I should expect when people believe everything is about heart. :spit:

It's a message board you baffoon, and it's the off-season, dig?

ColoradoDarin
01-16-2009, 04:59 PM
Here's the deal. Bowlen went to dinner with the owner's from the Rams and the Bucs. They all pinky sweared that Denver would start fresh,with young blood and that Shanny would finally head to Florida to be the Bucs head coach and that the Rams would get Gruden and Allen.

This way...each team gets the coach they want....and are off the hook for the contracts of Shanny and Gruden.

Write it down!

Anything that helps Pat Bowlen's cash flow is good for the Denver Broncos. Bring in Suggs or Peppers or both!

Rohirrim
01-16-2009, 05:02 PM
Hmmm. I wonder if the Crypt Keeper places a call to Chuckie?

Rohirrim
01-16-2009, 05:03 PM
It's a message board you baffoon, and it's the off-season, dig?

That **** always cracks me up. Why are you guys always speculating about everything about the team on this team message board? :hitself:

TonyR
01-16-2009, 05:03 PM
Francesa is French for dumbass.

Yep, he's the highest paid sports talk guy in this country's biggest city because he's a dumbass. I guess "bowtown" is French for genius...

HEAV
01-16-2009, 05:26 PM
How long before TJ registers the name "The Pewter Pirate" and starts harras'n rival NFC south fan sites?

Atlas
01-16-2009, 05:35 PM
Yuck, I hate Tampa... Oh well, Good luck Shanny maybe we'll see ya in the Superbowl.

NYBronc
01-16-2009, 05:43 PM
Yep, he's the highest paid sports talk guy in this country's biggest city because he's a dumbass. I guess "bowtown" is French for genius...

Francesa called Elway immortal and the best ever today. It never gets old hearing that. The caller was comparing the QB class of '83 to '04.

HEAV
01-16-2009, 05:47 PM
Yep, he's the highest paid sports talk guy in this country's biggest city because he's a dumbass. I guess "bowtown" is French for genius...

Sirius-XM gave Mad-dog some serious coin also. But I think it was stupid, he's a one trick pony without Mike Fran to slap him around.

TonyR
01-16-2009, 05:57 PM
Sirius-XM gave Mad-dog some serious coin also. But I think it was stupid, he's a one trick pony without Mike Fran to slap him around.

Francesa and Russo were great together. Francesa is good without Dog, but I don't care for Dog on his own. It's a shame they couldn't work it out.

DomCasual
01-16-2009, 06:08 PM
I hate these stupid ass speculation threads... people act like feminine women around here, gossiping about bull****.

Well I guess it's what I should expect when people believe everything is about heart. :spit:

It's crazy to think people would speculate on a messageboard. ::)

We should only discuss things that are fact here!

Subject: The Broncos have navy blue in their uniform color. Discuss!

Reply: Yes, they have navy. They also have orange!

Reply: Good point on the orange thing. REP!
Subject: The turf at Invesco seems to be made mostly of grass! Discuss!

Reply: I have noticed this. It is grass.

Reply: Yes. I have looked at it up close. It's grass.
Subject: Man, the Broncos defense sucks! Discuss!

MVPlaya Reply: You act like a feminine woman! Quit speculating about bull****!

MechanicalBull
01-16-2009, 06:32 PM
Francesa and Russo were great together. Francesa is good without Dog, but I don't care for Dog on his own. It's a shame they couldn't work it out.

I totally agree. Personally I prefered Dog when they were together but when it comes to knowing sports Francesa was way better than Russo.

Francesa isn't bad by himself I just hate it when he gets on his high horse and demeans everyone in sight and he is right about everything. Russo can get annoying with his act and needs someone to play off of.

SouthStndJunkie
01-16-2009, 06:32 PM
WHAT NEXT FOR THE BUCS?

Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 7:50 p.m.

So with coach Jon Gruden out after seven years and the Bucs suddenly in disarray, what happens next?

The early talk, via guys like Adam Schefter of NFLN and John Clayton of ESPN, is that defensive coordinator Raheem Morris will get his second promotion in less than a month.

We’re also hearing talking that Mark Dominik, the team’s director of pro personnel, will be the next G.M., replacing Bruce Allen.

Morris was a finalist for the Broncos’ head-coaching job, and Dominik reportedly was a candidate for the G.M. position in Kansas City. So instead of losing both men after 2009, the Bucs might have decided to promote them now.

Killericon
01-16-2009, 06:42 PM
I would love to see Shanahan in Tampa.

Rocky Mountain Stampede
01-16-2009, 06:54 PM
I would love to see Shanahan in Tampa.

Me too. I am indifferent to most NFC clubs. Barring a Super Bowl matchup, Denver won't see the Bucs again until 2012.

Popps
01-16-2009, 07:10 PM
Gruden... a SB with the Raiders, then a SB win five years ago... two playoff appearances since and back to back winning seasons in 07/08...

and he's fired.

Makes Bowlen look extremely patient, doesn't it.

KCStud
01-16-2009, 07:26 PM
Good for Dominik if he gets the job. He is a vastly underrated in the front office.

And why do people give Gruden so much credit? He took a team assembled by Dungy to win the SB. The teams strength was it's defense which Morris and Kiffin ran. Funny that the offense struggled and Gruden couldn't find any real QB to take them far.

The team has talent. If they find a good QB they could be a SB contender.

NYBronc
01-16-2009, 07:34 PM
The front office brought in the players for their opinions on Gruden and they weren't good, according to NFLN.

BTW Gruden never took the Raiders to the SB either. Lost the AFC championship to the Ravens in 2000, then the tuck rule game in 2001.

Pick Six
01-16-2009, 07:34 PM
so if shanny is hired in Tampa does that mean pat is still on hook for 20 million?

It's my understanding that Pat would only have to pay the difference between 20 million and Shanahan's new contract, if it's under 20 million...

The MVPlaya
01-16-2009, 07:37 PM
It's crazy to think people would speculate on a messageboard. ::)

We should only discuss things that are fact here!

No where in the article does it even mention anything about Shanahan. I'm referring to the fact that there hasn't been any reports, or anything to fuel the speculation. The thread title was misleading.

It's ok though, no one denied this.

people act like feminine women around here, gossiping about bull****.

So I guess since it IS a message board, you guys can do what you'd like. :flower: :kiss:

Hilarious!

Kid A
01-16-2009, 07:37 PM
Raheem Morris was just announced to be the new head coach in Tampa.

Dominick is GM.

broncosteven
01-16-2009, 07:38 PM
Any word on Norv's status with Chuggers?

baja
01-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Gruden... a SB with the Raiders, then a SB win five years ago... two playoff appearances since and back to back winning seasons in 07/08...

and he's fired.

Makes Bowlen look extremely patient, doesn't it.

Damn Poops hasn't TJ explained to you several times that Bowlen is a gutless drunk and why?

BroncoFiend
01-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Oh Man, I hope he somes here. It would be great to be able to still root for Shanny in my home town...except if he plays the Broncos of course.

Tombstone RJ
01-16-2009, 07:43 PM
Gruden... a SB with the Raiders, then a SB win five years ago... two playoff appearances since and back to back winning seasons in 07/08...

and he's fired.

Makes Bowlen look extremely patient, doesn't it.

Popps nails it again...

baja
01-16-2009, 07:45 PM
Raheem Morris was just announced to be the new head coach in Tampa.

Dominick is GM.

I still think we should have hired this guy. I got a feeling he is going to be a great one.

BroncoBuff
01-16-2009, 07:59 PM
Raheem Morris gets the job ....

REPORT: MORRIS, DOMINIK TAKING OVER IN TAMPA (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/16/report-morris-dominik-taking-over-in-tampa/)

Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 9:48 p.m.

Steve Duemig of WDAE radio in Tampa reports that Buccaneers defensive coordinator Raheem Morris will be the next head coach (http://www.620wdae.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=&article=4867179) of the team, and that director of pro personnel Mark Dominik will be the next G.M.

Ownership can make these moves without conducting a full-blown search because the Rooney Rule requires only that a minority candidate be interviewed for each head-coaching opening. Since Morris is an minority candidate, he can be the only candidate considered.

Also, the Rooney Rule does not apply to front-office hires. That said, the league office has encouraged teams to interview at least one minority candidate for G.M.-type jobs.

Dominik had been linked to the G.M. position in Kansas City. We’ve heard from several sources, however, that Dominik was never seriously considered, possibly in part because he was apparently using the media to force his name into the mix.

The news comes at a time when there was mounting rumor and speculation that former Broncos coach Mike Shanahan is putting out feelers regarding a possible return to the sidelines in 2009. The thinking is that, in Tampa, Shanahan would have teamed up with Mike Lombardi as G.M.

Lombardi worked with Shanahan in Denver during the 2007 season on an unpaid basis after being fired by the Raiders. If Duemig’s report is accurate, Shanahan won’t be getting the job.

It’s unclear how quickly the positions will be filled. Teams are preparing for free agency and the draft, so the faster any job can be filled, the better prepared the franchise will be.

UPDATE: Duemig says the deal is done.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/16/report-morris-dominik-taking-over-in-tampa/

Spider
01-16-2009, 08:06 PM
i wouldnt mind Gru Dog in D town as a O cord ...........

Tombstone RJ
01-16-2009, 08:08 PM
i wouldnt mind Gru Dog in D town as a O cord ...........

what?

TonyR
01-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Although Bill Cowher and Mike Shananan are available, they were not contacted by the Bucs. Cowher might not have been interested because of the team's uncertainty at quarterback. Shanahan is on vacation and might sit out next season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3839578

montrose
01-16-2009, 09:34 PM
Morris will be a great HC.

Taco John
01-16-2009, 09:47 PM
Gruden... a SB with the Raiders...



Gruden never took the Raiders to the Superbowl. The furthest the Raiders got with Gruden as HC was a 16-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens.

yerner
01-16-2009, 09:58 PM
Gruden... a SB with the Raiders, then a SB win five years ago... two playoff appearances since and back to back winning seasons in 07/08...

and he's fired.

Makes Bowlen look extremely patient, doesn't it.

way to black and white an argument, george bush. of course, subtleties are for smart people so you carry on old man...

cabronco
01-16-2009, 10:00 PM
Any word on Norv's status with Chuggers?

Last I heard, he's still at the wheel of the powder blue short bus. ???

Ray Finkle
01-16-2009, 10:03 PM
Gruden never took the Raiders to the Superbowl. The furthest the Raiders got with Gruden as HC was a 16-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens.

he was coach against the Pats tuck game.

Inkana7
01-16-2009, 10:04 PM
Gruden never took the Raiders to the Superbowl. The furthest the Raiders got with Gruden as HC was a 16-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens.

Right, the 02 squad was all Callahan's handwork. Just like the 02 Bucs were a product of Gruden's superior defensive coaching and not Tony Dungy's.

Taco John
01-16-2009, 10:06 PM
he was coach against the Pats tuck game.

Indeed. That was a divisional playoff game. The Patriots moved on to play the Steelers in the Conference Championship that year.

Taco John
01-16-2009, 10:07 PM
Right, the 02 squad was all Callahan's handwork. Just like the 02 Bucs were a product of Gruden's superior defensive coaching and not Tony Dungy's.

I'm not trying to get into a philisophical discussion about that. I'm just stating the facts: Gruden didn't win a Superbowl with the Raiders.

yerner
01-16-2009, 10:22 PM
Right, the 02 squad was all Callahan's handwork. Just like the 02 Bucs were a product of Gruden's superior defensive coaching and not Tony Dungy's.

so, we agree that whatever this team does next year is on shanny?

baja
01-16-2009, 10:24 PM
so, we agree that whatever this team does next year is on shanny?

Only if it's good.

Inkana7
01-16-2009, 10:25 PM
so, we agree that whatever this team does next year is on shanny?

Yeah, except Dungy and Gruden actually built championship teams. Shanahan built an offense.

Taco John
01-16-2009, 10:34 PM
Yeah, except Dungy and Gruden actually built championship teams. Shanahan built an offense.



Shanahan's personnel guy is still on staff, and has been left with more cap room and draft picks than the team has had in over a decade to spend on defense.

Popps
01-16-2009, 10:42 PM
way to black and white an argument, george bush. of course, subtleties are for smart people so you carry on old man...

Hi douhey. Here to call the whole forum gay racists again? Got more great takes like that?

BroncoBuff
01-16-2009, 10:45 PM
Gruden never took the Raiders to the Superbowl. The furthest the Raiders got with Gruden as HC was a 16-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens.


Shannon Sharpe (HOF this summer, get ready) scored like a 96-yard TD to win that game. :thumbs:

~Crash~
01-16-2009, 10:46 PM
You know what would be rich lol plummer to come out of retirement about now

Popps
01-16-2009, 10:47 PM
Gruden never took the Raiders to the Superbowl. The furthest the Raiders got with Gruden as HC was a 16-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens.

Correct. Should have said AFCCG... and you're also correct, I failed to mention his team the next year that realistically beat NE, but lost on the tuck rule.

So, after building that SB-caliber (we'll call it) team in Oakland despite the worst ownership in the league, he went on to Tampa and won a SB. Then, played in two playoff games the next five years, and put together winning records in 07/08.

Again, it makes Bowlen look very, very patient. In any other city, Shanahan is gone a long time ago.

Based on the "what have you done lately" clause, Gruden got a much more raw deal losing his gig than Shanahan did.

baja
01-16-2009, 10:50 PM
Correct. Should have said AFCCG... and you're also correct, I failed to mention his team the next year that realistically beat NE, but lost on the tuck rule.

So, after building that SB-caliber (we'll call it) team in Oakland despite the worst ownership in the league, he went on to Tampa and won a SB. Then, played in two playoff games the next five years, and put together winning records in 07/08.

Again, it makes Bowlen look very, very patient. In any other city, Shanahan is gone a long time ago.

Based on the "what have you done lately" clause, Gruden got a much more raw deal losing his gig than Shanahan did.


Malcolm Glazer, you gutless drunk.

BroncoBuff
01-16-2009, 10:51 PM
Malcolm Glazer, you gutless drunk.


That deserves a new thread ;D

~Crash~
01-16-2009, 10:55 PM
Morris will be a great HC.

ok I will bite why is that ? lol this should be rich !
I love black power these days you don't even need to do a damn thing just answer in quick quirkier answers and people will let you into there private pacesHa!

baja
01-16-2009, 10:56 PM
That deserves a new thread ;D

You are dangerously close to 15,000 posts and you know what that means right?

BroncoBuff
01-16-2009, 10:56 PM
You are dangerously close to 15,000 posts and you know what that means right?


One-and-a-half cookies?

~Crash~
01-16-2009, 11:12 PM
Wow this new head coach would you let him watch you kid when you were at dinner look at his mug pic wow scarry !!!!!!!!!http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Staff%20Photos/2009/mcdaniels_josh_mug09.jpg

~Crash~
01-16-2009, 11:17 PM
Deer in head lights ....blam

Hotwheelz
01-16-2009, 11:19 PM
ok I will bite why is that ? lol this should be rich !
I love black power these days you don't even need to do a damn thing just answer in quick quirkier answers and people will let you into there private pacesHa!

Oh boy...

jhat01
01-16-2009, 11:21 PM
All "forced" smiles look creepy...I wouldnt let this dude watch my kids either:

socalorado
01-16-2009, 11:22 PM
Oh boy...

Stop it. :afro:

Florida_Bronco
01-16-2009, 11:32 PM
Again, it makes Bowlen look very, very patient. In any other city, Shanahan is gone a long time ago.

Based on the "what have you done lately" clause, Gruden got a much more raw deal losing his gig than Shanahan did.

Gruden has been on borrowed time since after the 2006 season. Only his playoff appearance in 2007 saved him.

BroncoBuff
01-16-2009, 11:35 PM
Popps is right .... Gruden deserved better.

~Crash~
01-17-2009, 12:27 AM
Oh boy...

Oh you say ! come on I now you can say it lol

~Crash~
01-17-2009, 12:30 AM
All "forced" smiles look creepy...I wouldnt let this dude watch my kids either:

I would they would get A+ and give blood when drives are on !:rofl:

Taco John
01-17-2009, 01:02 AM
Correct. Should have said AFCCG... and you're also correct, I failed to mention his team the next year that realistically beat NE, but lost on the tuck rule.

So, after building that SB-caliber (we'll call it) team in Oakland despite the worst ownership in the league, he went on to Tampa and won a SB. Then, played in two playoff games the next five years, and put together winning records in 07/08.

Again, it makes Bowlen look very, very patient. In any other city, Shanahan is gone a long time ago.

Based on the "what have you done lately" clause, Gruden got a much more raw deal losing his gig than Shanahan did.



I don't know how you figure.

Gruden with Tampa Bay:
2002: 12-4 Super Bowl
2003: 7-9 (miss playoffs)
2004: 5-11 (miss playoffs)
2005: 11-5 (Lost in the wildcard round)
2006: 4-12 (miss playoffs)
2007: 9-7 (lost in the wildcard round)
2008: 9-7 (miss playoffs)


Seems like a pretty tenuous argument that you're making. But whatever... I couldn't care less what the Glazers do with their franchise. I believe Bowlen is making a mistake regardless, and I'm hoping that McDaniels proves me wrong. Thankfully, he's got a lot of pieces put in place for him, including a superb personnel man, a pretty terriffic offense, and more cap space and draft picks than we've had in over a decade to build a defense with.

Hotwheelz
01-17-2009, 01:06 AM
Oh you say ! come on I now you can say it lol

Say what? Use your words, short bus.

ZONA
01-17-2009, 01:39 AM
I personally think Shanny will end up not coaching next season. He's loaded with cash and probably needs the time away. There are always open HC jobs, especially for HOF coaches.

Popps
01-17-2009, 02:34 AM
I don't know how you figure.
.


I figure like this...

Gruden in the past decade:

-5 playoff wins
-1 Superbowl win
-2 playoff appearances in the past four years
-2 winning seasons leading up to his firing
-Gruden's squads won their divisions 5 times in ten years


Shanahan in the past decade

-1 playoff win
-No winning seasons the two years leading to his firing
-Denver has won the division exactly one time in ten years. (****ing pathetic.)


All clear?

cutthemdown
01-17-2009, 03:09 AM
Gruden is a great coach. IMO he would have been considered in Denver had he gotten fired a bit earlier.

Gruden would kick ass with our offense but he's a bit rash when it comes to qbs. I don't think Cutler would do well getting benched for a game like Gruden does sometimes.

He was loyal to Gannon though so it may just be Tampa hasn't had a good solid every game QB.

I like Gruden, I think he's a damn good coach. IMO KC should take a look at him, he knows how to get his offense into the endzone.

Play2win
01-17-2009, 03:13 AM
The only crash and burn at the end of the season that was worse than ours was Tampa Bay's...

And now both HCs are GONE.

Both are really good (if not great) coaches. They both will still get many, many more wins in this league. I'm not sure if they both "NEEDED" a change of scenery, but thats what happened...

UberBroncoMan
01-17-2009, 03:14 AM
Well... McDaniels is no longer the youngest coach in the league, by a few months.

That was sure short lived...

cutthemdown
01-17-2009, 03:19 AM
The only crash and burn at the end of the season that was worse than ours was Tampa Bay's...

And now both HCs are GONE.

Both are really good (if not great) coaches. They both will still get many, many more wins in this league. I'm not sure if they both "NEEDED" a change of scenery, but thats what happened...

Al Davis IMO was right when he said long ago 10 yrs is the max before a coach loses his edge.

Play2win
01-17-2009, 03:24 AM
Al Davis IMO was right when he said long ago 10 yrs is the max before a coach loses his edge.

Well I just hope McDaniels sticks around and has great success at the helm of the Broncos for the next 10 years... :thumbsup:

Traveler
01-17-2009, 06:27 AM
Morris will be a great HC.

I agree. It will be interesting to see how Morris and McDaniels progress as HC's.

TheDave
01-17-2009, 08:37 AM
Is it wrong for me to wish we could find a way of bringing in chucky?

Hamrob
01-17-2009, 08:47 AM
Shanny will take the year off. He needs time to assemble a coaching squad. He'll probably start to plan his reentry into the NFL very soon. He'll start reaching out to his former staff to see who will be interested in joining him in his new destination. He'll also probably spend time studying the game to see how he can improve on things that he struggled with over the past 10 years etc. This will be good for him in terms of recharging the batteries. Then he'll come back to the right situation and try to immediately make a difference. Hopefully, he goes to the NFC...that's my main concern, because I think he'll have alot of success wherever he ends up. I'm praying it's not SanDiego.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 09:41 AM
I figure like this...

Gruden in the past decade:

-5 playoff wins
-1 Superbowl win
-2 playoff appearances in the past four years
-2 winning seasons leading up to his firing
-Gruden's squads won their divisions 5 times in ten years


Shanahan in the past decade

-1 playoff win
-No winning seasons the two years leading to his firing
-Denver has won the division exactly one time in ten years. (****ing pathetic.)


All clear?


Can you explain why the Glazers care about the playoff wins that Gruden achieved with the Raiders? I'm pretty sure that the Glazers aren't actually interested in that.

I understand that what you're basically trying to do is make Shanahan look as bad as possible in comparison - and that's why you're including his Raider years. But the argument is tenuous at best when you include his Raider years - and even worse when you look at what he's done since taking Dungy's team to the Superbowl.

So no, it's not "all clear."

Also, a note - in the past decade, Shanahan has four playoff wins, including a Superbowl. This is 1999, and our last Superbowl was played January of 1999. You're whole "last decade" bit tries not to give Shanahan credit for a full decade.

Why do you hate Shanahan so badly that you'd do this? I don't get it. I know he canned Plummer and all, but you were an Elway fan before you were a Plummer fan weren't you?

loborugger
01-17-2009, 09:55 AM
Look at the NFC title game. Two 9 win teams are playing for the right to play in the Super Bowl. In the case of the Eagles, it was a strong late season run along with good performances in the play offs. In the case of AZ it was off to a quick start, coasting after winning a weak division, and then turning it on in the play offs.

Now, take Chucky and Shanny. At Thanksgiving, speculation was that Tampa could slide into the #2 spot in the NFC play offs - finishing 2nd to NY. Meanwhile, Denver was being penciled in as the #3 in the AFC, some even had as #2 to only Tenn.

And look what happened. Both coaches missed the playoffs. Both coaches teams lost a game on the last weekend of the season that they needed to get into the playoffs. At least Shanny lost on the road to SD. Chucky lost at home to the lowly Raiders. And both teams got smoked on the road at a division rival where they werent expected to win, but at least show up (Denver at SD and Tampa at Carolina).

And that is why both men are at this moment unemployed. Arizona & Philly arent on a different level talent wise than Denver or Tampa. But, they are peaking at the right time. That is how you win SBs. Its how B-more won theirs (and is working on another), its how Tampa won theirs, and its how NY won theirs last year.

The hallmark of a Shanny coached team this decade (and we have 8 seasons to look at), is coming out 2 and 0, 3 and 0, hell, 6 and 0; and then fizzling in the stretch - either not making the play offs or getting there only to be a doormat to someone else playing with heart. Only the 2005 season bucks this trend.

Thats my 2 cents.

TonyR
01-17-2009, 10:39 AM
Arizona & Philly arent on a different level talent wise than Denver or Tampa.

I agree with a lot of what you said except for this part. Particularly Philly, they are considerably more talented than we are. Both teams are better overall on both sides of the ball than we are.

TonyR
01-17-2009, 10:41 AM
Also, a note - in the past decade, Shanahan has four playoff wins, including a Superbowl. This is 1999, and our last Superbowl was played January of 1999. You're whole "last decade" bit tries not to give Shanahan credit for a full decade.

We have played 10 seasons since our last Super Bowl. 10 seasons = a decade. We have 1 playoff win in that time frame. Spin it however you wish to make yourself happy.

Popps
01-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Can you explain why the Glazers care about the playoff wins that Gruden achieved with the Raiders? I'm pretty sure that the Glazers aren't actually interested in that.

Sure... see, coaches get hired on their reputation, largely. A coach with a winning track record, particularly recently is going to get much more benefit of the doubt than, say... a coach that hasn't won but one meaningful game in a decade.

"I understand that what you're basically trying to do is make Shanahan look as bad as possible in comparison - and that's why you're including his Raider years."

See, Taco... the great thing about math is that it's just math. Numbers are numbers. Ten years for one coach is ten years for another.

Gruden has simply outperformed Shanahan over the past decade. Sure, if you just want to break it down to recently, he's outperformed him that way, too. It's not even close.



Also, a note - in the past decade, Shanahan has four playoff wins, including a Superbowl. This is 1999, and our last Superbowl was played January of 1999. You're whole "last decade" bit tries not to give Shanahan credit for a full decade.

:spit:


Awesome. First off, you have to go back to when grunge was in fashion to find meaningful playoff wins.

Second, we have completed TEN seasons with only one playoff win, Taco.

If you want to go ELEVEN seasons back, yes... you can begin to find meaningful games won by the Broncos. Not TEN, ELEVEN. What a pathetic conversation in the first place. ("No, we won playoff games in 99 so that should count!")

We could only win this ****-can division once in the last decade. That's more pathetic than only winning one playoff game.



Shanahan has done jack **** in ten seasons. Period. Gruden has accomplished much more in almost every measurable way, most importantly... in the playoffs. Yet, Gruden was shown the door.

Produce or get out. Shanahan couldn't, now he's out.

As someone else posted, Gruden got a much more raw deal than Shanahan.

Popps
01-17-2009, 12:31 PM
We have played 10 seasons since our last Super Bowl. 10 seasons = a decade. We have 1 playoff win in that time frame. Spin it however you wish to make yourself happy.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or just to be embarrassed for him.

uplink
01-17-2009, 12:40 PM
Interesting that Shanny and Gruden firings both followed very poor team performance closing the season and as a consequence the lost of divisional leads/playoff spots.

I guess the owners thought confidence would be low for the following year so might as well make a change.

broncofan7
01-17-2009, 01:41 PM
GAWWWWWDDDD!! Raheem seemed SO immature in his news conference. This is my 1st time seeing him speak and watching how he handles himself and he looks COMPLETELY in over his head. THANK GOD that Pat did not hire this clown. (feel free to open this thread and call me on it if Raheem leads TB to the SB next year)

Killericon
01-17-2009, 01:58 PM
Sure... see, coaches get hired on their reputation, largely. A coach with a winning track record, particularly recently is going to get much more benefit of the doubt than, say... a coach that hasn't won but one meaningful game in a decade.

"I understand that what you're basically trying to do is make Shanahan look as bad as possible in comparison - and that's why you're including his Raider years."

See, Taco... the great thing about math is that it's just math. Numbers are numbers. Ten years for one coach is ten years for another.

Gruden has simply outperformed Shanahan over the past decade. Sure, if you just want to break it down to recently, he's outperformed him that way, too. It's not even close.



Also, a note - in the past decade, Shanahan has four playoff wins, including a Superbowl. This is 1999, and our last Superbowl was played January of 1999. You're whole "last decade" bit tries not to give Shanahan credit for a full decade.

:spit:


Awesome. First off, you have to go back to when grunge was in fashion to find meaningful playoff wins.

Second, we have completed TEN seasons with only one playoff win, Taco.

If you want to go ELEVEN seasons back, yes... you can begin to find meaningful games won by the Broncos. Not TEN, ELEVEN. What a pathetic conversation in the first place. ("No, we won playoff games in 99 so that should count!")

We could only win this ****-can division once in the last decade. That's more pathetic than only winning one playoff game.



Shanahan has done jack **** in ten seasons. Period. Gruden has accomplished much more in almost every measurable way, most importantly... in the playoffs. Yet, Gruden was shown the door.

Produce or get out. Shanahan couldn't, now he's out.

As someone else posted, Gruden got a much more raw deal than Shanahan.

Just because Gruden got a worse deal doesn't mean that Shanahan DIDN'T get a ****ty deal. I will agree that Shanahan deserved to be fired more than Gruden, but neither of them should've been fired. We live in a world where Shanahan and Gruden were fired before Herm Edwards.

GAWWWWWDDDD!! Raheem seemed SO immature in his news conference. This is my 1st time seeing him speak and watching how he handles himself and he looks COMPLETELY in over his head. THANK GOD that Pat did not hire this clown. (feel free to open this thread and call me on it if Raheem leads TB to the SB next year)

Link?

Taco John
01-17-2009, 02:20 PM
I still dont' get it. Why would the Glazers care about the playoff wins that Gruden achieved with the Raiders? (Of course they wouldn't - but since Popps made the argument and is hell bent on being "right" all the time, he'll defend the take to the illogical end). It's one thing to look at 10 years vs. ten years - but to make the case that the Glazers are impatient with Gruden because they weren't giving him credit for his Raiders success... That's out there.

I didn't even want to get wrapped up in this pointless discussion. I just wanted to comment that Gruden didn't win a Superbowl with the Raiders, as was said earlier in this thread. If you want to spend time bashing Shanahan, feel free. I couldn't care less. I believe it was a mistake firing him, but I'm not going to spend any more time defending the position. I don't honestly care what anyone else thinks of it. But what I don't understand is why Popps would feel the need to take every opportunity that he can bashing Shanahan now - especially when he was too much of a coward to do it when Shanahan was actually here coaching. Suddenly, he's the front runner leader of the brigade.

Go ahead. Bash away. It's in season now. It doesn't matter to me.

It's time to look forward.

broncofan7
01-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Just because Gruden got a worse deal doesn't mean that Shanahan DIDN'T get a ****ty deal. I will agree that Shanahan deserved to be fired more than Gruden, but neither of them should've been fired. We live in a world where Shanahan and Gruden were fired before Herm Edwards.



Link?

http://www.buccaneers.com/ under videos

Taco John
01-17-2009, 02:59 PM
http://www.buccaneers.com/ under videos

Wow. You're right. He definitely seemed in over his head.


I have to say, I liked that they mic'ed the press. I wish the Broncos would do that?

Popps
01-17-2009, 03:17 PM
I still dont' get it. Why would the Glazers care about the playoff wins that Gruden achieved with the Raiders? .

Taco, I've already explained it once. Tampa's front office, like any other front office in the league, would factor in a coach's full resume in any hiring/firing decision. Again, it's simple business procedure. If a company hires a CFO with a great track record with other companies over the past decade, he's likely to get more leeway (read: time) to execute his plan for his new company. (i.e. the benefit of the doubt.)

So, you're asking the wrong question when you ask if they "care" that he won with the Raiders. It's not about caring, it's about properly identifying personnel with a track record of success. Again, why did we hire Shanahan? He had success in SF. Why did we hire McDaniels? Based on his track record in NE.

I'm not sure why that's difficult to understand.

Conversely, letting those same employees go is going to be done using the same process of analysis.... "how has this person performed recently, over 5 years.. over ten years... etc."

Again, Taco... this is simple business stuff.


If you want to spend time bashing Shanahan, feel free. I couldn't care less. .

Funny stuff, guy.

Of course you know that I've defended Shanahan for years around here.

I'm just rational enough to understand that a ten year stretch with only 1 division title in a **** division.... and one playoff win isn't acceptable in Denver. We're a better organization than that, and Bowlen knows it. Hence, the proper business decision was made.

TheDave
01-17-2009, 03:23 PM
Wow. You're right. He definitely seemed in over his head.


I have to say, I liked that they mic'ed the press. I wish the Broncos would do that?

I don't think he sounded any better or worse than our coach... Might have something to do with the age.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 03:26 PM
Taco, I've already explained it once. Tampa's front office, like any other front office in the league, would factor in a coach's full resume in any hiring/firing decision.


That's funny that you think so - that Tampa's front office would evaluate the job that Gruden is doing in Tampa Bay based on what he did in Oakland, and not based on what they're seeing right there in Tampa Bay.


"Uh let's see, we've gone 9-7 the last two seasons, and haven't won a playoff game since he took Dungy's squad to the Superbowl. I think we should consider firing him."

"Yeah, but look what he did in Oakland. Don't you think that should count for something?"

*dead silence in the room*

"Is this person high? Who hired this guy? You're fired too."


Funny stuff man.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 03:27 PM
I don't think he sounded any better or worse than our coach... Might have something to do with the age.


Maybe I'm just being a homer myself. I thought McDaniels handled himself pretty well. He didn't seem like he was out of his element.

McD looks and reminds me of one of my childhood buddies growing up.

TheDave
01-17-2009, 03:32 PM
Maybe I'm just being a homer myself. I thought McDaniels handled himself pretty well. He didn't seem like he was out of his element.

McD looks and reminds me of one of my childhood buddies growing up.

In all fairness, it is possible (read: probable) that i'm still a little red assed over the whole thing. But i didn't have that great of a feeling.

This is a strange trend in the NFL... get rid of proven SB winning coaches and replace them with 32 year old newbs.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 03:39 PM
In all fairness, it is possible (read: probable) that i'm still a little red assed over the whole thing. But i didn't have that great of a feeling.

This is a strange trend in the NFL... get rid of proven SB winning coaches and replace them with 32 year old newbs.


I hear you man. I'm still in shock myself. I personally believe Shanahan was building a Superbowl team here, and that we're practically sending it up the river.

But that being said, regardless if Shanahan is here or not, the team he built is. We have a great offense with very few needs there. And Shanahan put this team in position this season to have more draft picks and cap money than we've had in over a decade to spend primarily on defense. Best of all, Shanahan's personnel man (Goodman) is still here - even receiving a promotion.

Looking at what McDaniels was able to do with Cassell, Moss, and Welker, there's plenty of reason to be optimistic about what he can accomplish with Jay, Brandon, and Eddie. And with all the picks and money we have to spend on defense, we're sure to improve.

All things considered, I'm disappointed that Bowlen didn't have the guts to stick it out with Shanahan like Rooney stuck it out with Cowher, but there's still plenty to be optimistic about.

baja
01-17-2009, 03:40 PM
In all fairness, it is possible (read: probable) that i'm still a little red assed over the whole thing. But i didn't have that great of a feeling.

This is a strange trend in the NFL... get rid of proven SB winning coaches and replace them with 32 year old newbs.

...after waiting patiently for ten long years! At some point you have to look at what is right in front of you.

HEAV
01-17-2009, 03:40 PM
Shanny got canned becuase the owner didn't see the results he wanted.

Gruden got canned becuase his players turned against him.


It didn't help that the team had a hot talent in Morris that many teams had shown interest in as there on H.C.

Why keep a coach that players lost faith in, when you have a viable candidate in house?

HEAV
01-17-2009, 03:42 PM
I hear you man. I'm still in shock myself. I personally believe Shanahan was building a Superbowl team here, and that we're practically sending it up the river.

But that being said, regardless if Shanahan is here or not, the team he built is. We have a great offense with very few needs there. And Shanahan put this team in position this season to have more draft picks and cap money than we've had in over a decade to spend primarily on defense. Best of all, Shanahan's personnel man (Goodman) is still here - even receiving a promotion.

Looking at what McDaniels was able to do with Cassell, Moss, and Welker, there's plenty of reason to be optimistic about what he can accomplish with Jay, Brandon, and Eddie. And with all the picks and money we have to spend on defense, we're sure to improve.

All things considered, I'm disappointed that Bowlen didn't have the guts to stick it out with Shanahan like Rooney stuck it out with Cowher, but there's still plenty to be optimistic about.



Oh will you let the Shanny thing go for christ sake. Everyone know you will be the first person to throw McDaniels under the bus and start screaming it was wrong after the first loss.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 03:47 PM
Oh will you let the Shanny thing go for christ sake. Everyone know you will be the first person to throw McDaniels under the bus and start screaming it was wrong after the first loss.


Go away. I can't understand why I can't console a fellow fan with some words of encuragement without you jumping down my throat about it.

We get it. Some of you guys were ready for Shanahan to be gone. I wasn't talking to you. Show some class.

Popps
01-17-2009, 03:48 PM
Oh will you let the Shanny thing go for christ sake. Everyone know you will be the first person to throw McDaniels under the bus and start screaming it was wrong after the first loss.

No, see... if we win going forward, it's because of the "rebuild" Shanahan was putting in place.

If we lose, it's because of McDaniels.

Pretty straight-forward.

Popps
01-17-2009, 03:55 PM
That's funny that you think so - that Tampa's front office would evaluate the job that Gruden is doing in Tampa Bay based on what he did in Oakland, and not based on what they're seeing right there in Tampa Bay.

Ahhh, Taco... I realize you've got no background in business, so I don't blame you for simply not understanding what you're speaking about.

Once again... once again... Gruden was not fired for "what he did or didn't accomplish in Oakland."

HOWEVER, the totality of ANY employee's resume is considered when making business decisions.

Your silly example of them sitting in a boardroom asking each other if they should keep him around because of his Oakland days isn't accurate.

But, Tampa's ownership HIRED him based PURELY on what he did in Oakland... get it?

So, when firing him... the REASONS THEY HIRED HIM don't just disappear.

So, do dumb it down for you... when Bowlen kicked Shanahan to the curb, he wasn't in tears because Shanahan's done such a great job over this past decade. (Obviuosly)

Bowlen had a tough time with it based on what Shanahan did 11 YEARS AGO.

So, the TOTALITY of Shanahan's resume was considered when making that business decision... whether with the Broncos, 49ers, etc.

A coaches combined experience and track record will ALWAYS be factored into business decisions. As I said, that's 101 stuff.

But, to dumb it down further for you... because that appears necessary... Gruden simply outperformed Shanahan by a wide margin over the past 10 years and has had more recent successes. It's not even close.

I have to say, in reading your responses to this... I understand why you have such a hard time evaluating what you're seeing on a regular basis.

Natedog24
01-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Gruden got fired because he has done jack$h!t since winning the Superbowl with a team that was essentially built by Tony Dungy. At least Shanny got Denver to an AFC Championship game since his Superbowl team, Gruden on the other hand has only managed to get bounced from the playoffs a couple of times. His inability find another Rich Gannon to run his offense is really what killed him. That aside, I think he is a pretty good coach and probably could find a job pretty quickly if he wanted to.

Popps
01-17-2009, 04:02 PM
Gruden got fired because he has done jack$h!t since winning the Superbowl with a team that was essentially built by Tony Dungy.

You may remember the Raiders going on to a SB after Gruden left. Who built that team?

As for what he did post-SB in Tampa... his teams played in two playoff games and put together back to back winning seasons before being fired.

Stellar? No.

Better than Shanahan? Of course.


I think they're both great coaches. But, as I've said... and people for some reason just can't accept it... things run their course.

Kid A
01-17-2009, 04:05 PM
Gruden got fired because he has done jack$h!t since winning the Superbowl with a team that was essentially built by Tony Dungy. At least Shanny got Denver to an AFC Championship game since his Superbowl team, Gruden on the other hand has only managed to get bounced from the playoffs a couple of times. His inability find another Rich Gannon to run his offense is really what killed him. That aside, I think he is a pretty good coach and probably could find a job pretty quickly if he wanted to.

In Gruden's defense, it is worth noting that while the team he won the SB with was mostly Dungy's, the opposing team in that game (the Raiders) was a team he was largely responsible for building. So both in terms of building up a team and in terms of coaching, he came away looking pretty good that year.

Kid A
01-17-2009, 04:05 PM
You may remember the Raiders going on to a SB after Gruden left. Who built that team?



haha, beat me to it.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 04:12 PM
Ahhh, Taco... I realize you've got no background in business, so I don't blame you for simply not understanding what you're speaking about.

Once again... once again... Gruden was not fired for "what he did or didn't accomplish in Oakland."

HOWEVER, the totality of ANY employee's resume is considered when making business decisions.

Your silly example of them sitting in a boardroom asking each other if they should keep him around because of his Oakland days isn't accurate.

But, Tampa's ownership HIRED him based PURELY on what he did in Oakland... get it?

So, when firing him... the REASONS THEY HIRED HIM don't just disappear.

So, do dumb it down for you... when Bowlen kicked Shanahan to the curb, he wasn't in tears because Shanahan's done such a great job over this past decade. (Obviuosly)

Bowlen had a tough time with it based on what Shanahan did 11 YEARS AGO.

So, the TOTALITY of Shanahan's resume was considered when making that business decision... whether with the Broncos, 49ers, etc.

A coaches combined experience and track record will ALWAYS be factored into business decisions. As I said, that's 101 stuff.

But, to dumb it down further for you... because that appears necessary... Gruden simply outperformed Shanahan by a wide margin over the past 10 years and has had more recent successes. It's not even close.

I have to say, in reading your responses to this... I understand why you have such a hard time evaluating what you're seeing on a regular basis.



Like I said... No matter how illogical your argument is, you just have to be "right" so you'll argue it to it's illogical end no matter what. You can pepper in your meaningless personal insults all you want. I know who I am and what my business experience is. I need zero validation from an Internet hot head who HAS TO BE RIGHT all the time.

Taco John
01-17-2009, 04:24 PM
As for what he did post-SB in Tampa... his teams played in two playoff games and put together back to back winning seasons before being fired.

Stellar? No.

Better than Shanahan? Of course.




Gruden Since 2003 (the year after he won the Superbowl):


2003: 7-9 (miss playoffs)
2004: 5-11 (miss playoffs)
2005: 11-5 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2006: 4-12 (miss playoffs)
2007: 9-7 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2008: 9-7 (miss playoffs)

Record: 45-51 (.468 winning percentage)



Shanahan in the same time period:

2003: 10-6 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2004: 10-6 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2005: 13-3 (Playoff birth - first round bye - 1-1 in the playoffs - Hosted conference championship)
2006: 9-7 (missed the playoffs)
2007: 7-9 (missed the playoffs)
2008: 8-8 (missed the playoffs)


Record: 57-39 (.593 winning percentage)


Popps quote:

"Better than Shanahan? Of course."

And the funny part. Even though his argument has been completely dismantled with facts and figures (and not just Popps usual empty emotional argument), he has such a hot headed desire TO BE RIGHT that he'll continue to argue the case that Gruden was better than Shanahan in that time frame.

Funny stuff Popps. Thanks for the entertainment.

Popps
01-17-2009, 04:47 PM
Of course."

And the funny part. Even though his argument has been completely dismantled with facts and figures (and not just Popps usual empty emotional argument)t.

Oh, sorry Taco... maybe you missed it... let me help you:

Past TEN seasions:

Gruden - 5 playoff wins
Shanahan 1 playoff win

Gruden - 5 division titles
Shanahan - 1 division title (Total disgrace.)

Gruden - 1 SB win
Shanahan - 0 SB wins

Past two seasons:

Gruden - 2 winning seasons
Shanahan - 0 winning seasons


Dismantled with facts?

Indeed... you have been.

Enjoy the 90s though, boss. Got the new Nirvana record yet? It's b****in'.

BroncoBuff
01-17-2009, 04:55 PM
Gruden Since 2003 (the year after he won the Superbowl):


2003: 7-9 (miss playoffs)
2004: 5-11 (miss playoffs)
2005: 11-5 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2006: 4-12 (miss playoffs)
2007: 9-7 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2008: 9-7 (miss playoffs)

Record: 45-51 (.468 winning percentage)



Shanahan in the same time period:

2003: 10-6 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2004: 10-6 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2005: 13-3 (Playoff birth - first round bye - 1-1 in the playoffs - Hosted conference championship)
2006: 9-7 (missed the playoffs)
2007: 7-9 (missed the playoffs)
2008: 8-8 (missed the playoffs)


Record: 57-39 (.593 winning percentage)
It's a striking difference when you look at it that way ... Gruden had a couple truly abysmal seasons. That never happened with Mike .... well, 1999, so once.

Natedog24
01-17-2009, 05:02 PM
Gruden Since 2003 (the year after he won the Superbowl):


2003: 7-9 (miss playoffs)
2004: 5-11 (miss playoffs)
2005: 11-5 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2006: 4-12 (miss playoffs)
2007: 9-7 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2008: 9-7 (miss playoffs)

Record: 45-51 (.468 winning percentage)



Shanahan in the same time period:

2003: 10-6 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2004: 10-6 (Playoff birth - 0-1 in the playoffs)
2005: 13-3 (Playoff birth - first round bye - 1-1 in the playoffs - Hosted conference championship)
2006: 9-7 (missed the playoffs)
2007: 7-9 (missed the playoffs)
2008: 8-8 (missed the playoffs)


Record: 57-39 (.593 winning percentage)


About what I though, I just didn't want to hunt down all the records and stats. Honestly, if you think Shanny absolutely deserved to be fired; how in the world can you think that Gruden didn't deserve to be fired in Tampa as well.

Something else to chew on as well, that wouldn't show up in stats or records is the job that Shanahan has done totally rebuilding the offense since getting to the AFC Championship game. Denver's core players are probably much younger then Tampa, and Shanny has left Denver in a much better position for future success then Gruden has in Tampa.

Also factor in that Gruden played with one of the best defensive coordinators in the NFL in Monte Kiffin. Shame on Shanahan for not finding a great DC and hiring garbage like Slowik, which is a big reason why I think he eventually lost his job. But you have to think that having a long time, great coordinator like Kiffin would have helped Shanahan immensely over the years.

Popps
01-17-2009, 05:03 PM
It's a striking difference when you look at it that way ... Gruden had a couple truly abysmal seasons. That never happened with Mike .... well, 1999, so once.

Conversely, Gruden's teams won their division 5 times to Shanahan's once.

So, that just goes to the conversation of what's more important.... a consistently O.K. team, or teams that periodically have striking power beyond being average.

Look, they're both great coaches. The simple point made earlier was just that by the "what have you done lately" gauge, Shanahan got much more leeway from his boss than Gruden did.

Further illustrating how business, and business in the NFL is conducted.

BroncoBuff
01-17-2009, 05:14 PM
Conversely, Gruden's teams won their division 5 times to Shanahan's once.

Further illustrating how business, and business in the NFL is conducted.


I dunno ... these are not purely "business decisions" as such decisions are generally understood. There are personalities and contract debts (like Shanahan) to consider, too. Amd most big sports owners are ego-involved with their teams (see Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones, George Steinbrenner), and accordingly think less with business, and more with emotion. The teams are like toys to some of them ...

Which is all the more reason to respect Pat Bowlen's choice - as a man without endless personal resources - he made the switch despirte maybe being forced to eat Mike's contract. You gotta admit, the purely business decision here would've been to keep Shanahan.

Popps
01-17-2009, 07:08 PM
I dunno ... these are not purely "business decisions" as such decisions are generally understood. There are personalities and contract debts (like Shanahan) to consider, too. Amd most big sports owners are ego-involved with their teams (see Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones, George Steinbrenner), and accordingly think less with business, and more with emotion. The teams are like toys to some of them ...

Which is all the more reason to respect Pat Bowlen's choice - as a man without endless personal resources - he made the switch despirte maybe being forced to eat Mike's contract. You gotta admit, the purely business decision here would've been to keep Shanahan.

You make good points as to personalities entering into things. Clearly Shanahan and Bowlen were friends or Shanny would have been gone a long time ago.

You're also correct that business owners are just people and span a wide variety of personalities. "People" stuff factors in at every level of business, literally.

That said, I still think beyond it all... Bowlen is a results-based guy and his willingness to eat the contract, as you mentioned... is further proof that this was indeed a business decision. By that I mean, Bowlen himself has stated that his franchise is in the business of winning. Is that always profitable? Perhaps not, and that's another conversation. But, he's a results-based owner and acted accordingly.

yerner
01-17-2009, 09:08 PM
You make good points as to personalities entering into things. Clearly Shanahan and Bowlen were friends or Shanny would have been gone a long time ago.

You're also correct that business owners are just people and span a wide variety of personalities. "People" stuff factors in at every level of business, literally.

That said, I still think beyond it all... Bowlen is a results-based guy and his willingness to eat the contract, as you mentioned... is further proof that this was indeed a business decision. By that I mean, Bowlen himself has stated that his franchise is in the business of winning. Is that always profitable? Perhaps not, and that's another conversation. But, he's a results-based owner and acted accordingly.

damn, you cant change opinion even when see a point. probably means your ****ing stupid. accept it.

obediah
01-17-2009, 09:18 PM
not gonna read all this crap,so i dont know if it has been posted yet. But mark my words, any team shanafag goes to, WILL FAIL PERIOD!!!!


flame away beeches...

Popps
01-17-2009, 11:00 PM
damn, you cant change opinion even when see a point. probably means your ****ing stupid. accept it.

Hi douche.

So, the entire forum is a bunch of gay, racists.... remember? Why are you here again? Haven't seen a quality post from you yet.

By the way, maybe work out the 23 grammar errors in the post before you call someone stupid, next time.

azbroncfan
01-17-2009, 11:05 PM
Now did Tampa interview a white guy or does the Rooney rule only apply to minorities?