Iran and Venezuela are sinking fast...

[Smiling Assassin27]

The low price of oil has rocked Iran and Venezuela in a big way. In Iran, the economy is on the verge of collapse since most of its revenue is dependent on oil money. Ahmadinejad has proposed economic reforms which basically cut out all government subsidies that keep prices for things like water, gasoline, and heating low. In Venezuela, Chavez is about to beg western oil companies (yes, the ones he nationalized in 07) to come back into Venezuela. The low oil prices are curtailing his ability to produce oil--the cornerstone of Venezuela's revenue as well.

If this isn't an argument for more drilling, I don't know what is. Keeping prices low will drive these nations (along with maybe Russia) toward economic ruin, thereby brining about a greater possibility of political change. If you are Exxon or Conoco, do you follow the money back to Venezuela, do you let this weasel twist in the wind, knowing that the guy is more than willing to kick you in the nuts whenever he feels it will help his communist cause?

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/12/30/news/ML-Iran-Subsidies.php

http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=19374737

[watermock]

Chase China off the Florida strait for starters. The're going to suck it right under our feet.

Help Brazil with it's deep offshore wells.

[Hotrod]

This is all Bush's fault...........err wait

[NaptownChief]

Russia's economy is also a house of cards largely built on oil. I feel terrible for all of them. Nnyah!

[JPEZ]

This is all Bush's fault...........err wait

Don't worry HotRod! President Obama will clean everything up!
I heard even the polar cap is freezing up since he got elected!
Just ask any "Libby" ;D

[Hotrod]

Don't worry HotRod! President Obama will clean everything up!
I heard even the polar cap is freezing up since he got elected!
Just ask any "Libby" ;D

Hey where have you been hiding?

[NaptownChief]

Don't worry HotRod! President Obama will clean everything up!
I heard even the polar cap is freezing up since he got elected!
Just ask any "Libby" ;D



That is right....When Mother Nature heard that he was going to be in office next week she went ahead and put the Midwest into a deep freeze knowing that Global Warming has already been defeated.

I wish somebody would go start up their SUV or some cows would pass some gas because I'm not a big fan of this -11 degree temps we have right now in Indiana.

[ghwk]

This is all Bush's fault...........err wait

No No, for once you have it right! :rofl:

[TailgateNut]

Don't worry HotRod! President Obama will clean everything up!
I heard even the polar cap is freezing up since he got elected!
Just ask any "Libby" ;D


Scooter???

[TailgateNut]

Hey where have you been hiding?

Probably in a closet, on suicide watch with Dman.:rofl:

[NUB]

More drilling wont do anything. Seriously. People need to shut the **** up about "more drilling" as if it's going to swoop in and save us from Middle-Eastern oil. Possibly the most retarded idea in history, and no surprise it's become a mantra of the right who can't seem to put reality ahead of its own goddam narratives.

[TailgateNut]

More drilling wont do anything. Seriously. People need to shut the **** up about "more drilling" as if it's going to swoop in and save us from Middle-Eastern oil. Possibly the most retarded idea in history, and no surprise it's become a mantra of the right who can't seem to put reality ahead of its own goddam narratives.


It'll keep pumping money into the pockets of the oil companies, while suffocating our country into oblivion.

[NUB]

It'll keep pumping money into the pockets of the oil companies, while suffocating our country into oblivion.

Really all it is good for.

If drilling for that oil is going to save us, someone please tell me why the U.S. government has documents on the books about how to invade Saudi Arabia and secure the oil fields in case of an emergency? We don't have any kind of easily accessible way to get ourselves off their oil, period, and the fact we once had a "Plan B" that included invading the KSA shows it. That plus the fairly basic fact that the proven oil to come out of there could literally be sucked up by American consumption in less than a year says a lot too.


BTW, the barrel will be heading back up at least by Spring, and probably before hand. Enjoy it while you can.

[Paladin]

OPEC will continue to cut production which will drive the prices back up. Drilling for more would take a number of years to bring any additional new oil to the refineries, of which the US has not enough to handle a lot more oil. The environmentalist have had a rather shortsighted view on building new refineries, and the distribution system and pipelines could not handle much more "new" oil. Friggin Repugnicans simply do not know anything except to drill for more.

The moves towards electric or fuel-cell personal autos will do the most good over the longer haul. If maybe 25% of current fleet of cars were Prius or Volts or whatever, the amount of daily and annual oil use would drop significantly and that would nearly drive Iran and Venezuela into serious recessions. Japan, China and India would likely keep those countries in business, but the US and Canada would be able to live on what they have in their own grounds. Moreover, shale needs to continue to be developed through research on better methods of getting oil out of the shale, and I also believe we will see Natural gas vehicles around in quantity.

But to drill for more? Not really a solution.

[Spider]

Rockin terrorist as well , but Nub you are wrong about more drilling , the high price was never about supply and demand ,Nor is about people driving less , damn I drive a truck that gets 4.7 miles to the freaking gallon , it was about the Enron loophole Bush created , Democrats closed it , now look , we are making terrorist countries economy's crash faster then the Bush jr ran Harkin oil ........So yes once again it is the Democrats to the rescue ...... republicans ,how can I put this gently .................. you ****ing retards have ****ed up enough , if it was me every mother ****ing registered republican would have hos voting privileges revoked on the grounds of stupidity ............

[cutthemdown]

OPEC can only cut production so far before the OPEC countries can't make their budgets.

OPEC countries like Iran and Venezuela cheat the others by never actually cutting production. They vote for the cut, but then keep pumping so they can reap even more rewards from the price increase.

Saudi Arabia has figured this out and won't agree to cut's IMO that go deep enough to raise prices.

As far as North American oil goes the Canadian sands oil projects although harmful to the environment have the potential to produce millions upon millions barrels of oil.

[Bob]

Rockin terrorist as well , but Nub you are wrong about more drilling , the high price was never about supply and demand ,Nor is about people driving less , damn I drive a truck that gets 4.7 miles to the freaking gallon , it was about the Enron loophole Bush created , Democrats closed it , now look , we are making terrorist countries economy's crash faster then the Bush jr ran Harkin oil ........So yes once again it is the Democrats to the rescue ...... republicans ,how can I put this gently .................. you ****ing retards have ****ed up enough , if it was me every mother ****ing registered republican would have hos voting privileges revoked on the grounds of stupidity ............

Not being sarcastic -- what loophole?

I saw 60 minutes a week ago, and thought their take was compelling -- while oil inventory was going up, and while we were using less, prices were shooting straight up. So it is clear that speculators do have a significant roll -- they guess what oil will be a few weeks or months out and flip the paper for what they hope will be a profit. I couldnt help but think about those who were flipping homes for a profit (for awhile) which meant more folks were in the game of buying homes jacking up prices that never intended in living in the homes they bought -- likewise speculators in oil (about 80%) where not looking at holding what they bought to use it, so the false demand raised prices everyone had to pay, and while going up the speculators created a bubble, which did not match "public" demand.

Even with all of this, if we generate more capasity to access energy in America, (oil shale in Colorado comes to mind) it provides less a foundation for speculators to have a floor inwhich to anticipate a "higher price six months from now."

[Spider]

OPEC can only cut production so far before the OPEC countries can't make their budgets.

OPEC countries like Iran and Venezuela cheat the others by never actually cutting production. They vote for the cut, but then keep pumping so they can reap even more rewards from the price increase.

Saudi Arabia has figured this out and won't agree to cut's IMO that go deep enough to raise prices.

As far as North American oil goes the Canadian sands oil projects although harmful to the environment have the potential to produce millions upon millions barrels of oil.

The Sands oil has alot of potential , but the cost to " squeeze " oil from the sand is very costly , and the grade of oil is close to that of Shale ......
I wish it was easier to get oil from sand oil ,it would be alot better then drilling up the mountain sides of Colorado ......

[Bob]

Mexico is struggling right now -- in fact any countries on the planet that are "thriving" right now?

People understandably think about the US economy and out "tough" times, but global over-spending is not just a US problem. Those countries that did not overspend, like Japan are still hurt by those like us that created excess demand, that are now scaling back to reasonable levels.

[Spider]

Not being sarcastic -- what loophole? I have been screaming about this loophole since 2000 , it allowed oil speculators to run amok . it was nasty ......

I saw 60 minutes a week ago, and thought their take was compelling -- while oil inventory was going up, and while we were using less, prices were shooting straight up. So it is clear that speculators do have a significant roll -- they guess what oil will be a few weeks or months out and flip the paper for what they hope will be a profit. I couldnt help but think about those who were flipping homes for a profit (for awhile) which meant more folks were in the game of buying homes jacking up prices that never intended in living in the homes they bought -- likewise speculators in oil (about 80%) where not looking at holding what they bought to use it, so the false demand raised prices everyone had to pay, and while going up the speculators created a bubble, which did not match "public" demand. I didnt see 60 minutes , but did they cover the shut in wells ? we got some high producing wells just sitting there cause our northern pipe line is full of Canadian juice and the south full of Mexican juice ...........

Even with all of this, if we generate more capasity to access energy in America, (oil shale in Colorado comes to mind) it provides less a foundation for speculators to have a floor inwhich to anticipate a "higher price six months from now."
Not entirely true , what speculators did was buy 20 to 30% over what we use , add to it the government was stock piling 700+ thousand barrels a day in the strategic reserve , So no matter the surplus , they found ways to hide or horde oil until they got the desired price ......

[Spider]

Mexico is struggling right now -- in fact any countries on the planet that are "thriving" right now?

People understandably think about the US economy and out "tough" times, but global over-spending is not just a US problem. Those countries that did not overspend, like Japan are still hurt by those like us that created excess demand, that are now scaling back to reasonable levels.

i dont buy that ....... I have been home for less then 12 hours ( load to Miss i turned down ) and my phone has been ringing non stop to haul heavy equipment to El Paso to go over the boarder , this **** isnt cheap , nor is transporting it ....... I dont know what is going on down there , but something is .......

[Bob]

The Sands oil has alot of potential , but the cost to " squeeze " oil from the sand is very costly , and the grade of oil is close to that of Shale ......
I wish it was easier to get oil from sand oil ,it would be alot better then drilling up the mountain sides of Colorado ......

With oil so low, it is hard for businesses to jump in to invest in developing resources, when it costs more to get it out of the ground than what they can sell it for -- reminds me of what happened under Carter. Makes me think that we have to keep the threat of production alive to surpress the price by heading off speculators (not to mention the security issues.)

[Spider]

With oil so low, it is hard for businesses to jump in to invest in developing resources, when it costs more to get it out of the ground than what they can sell it for -- reminds me of what happened under Carter. Makes me think that we have to keep the threat of production alive to surpress the price by heading off speculators (not to mention the security issues.)

it cost 16.00 per barrel to get shale oil , I dont know the cost of Sand oil , I have never been around it , nor worked in the field , but I know Shale oil , it is here , Bob I dont know where you live ,but if you live in Colorado , take hwy 13 north out of rifle , take a left on Rio Blanco county rd 5 ( aka PieanceCreek) go 20 + miles to Cow creek rd , take a left and see where it leads and what is up there ..........

[Bob]

i dont buy that ....... I have been home for less then 12 hours ( load to Miss i turned down ) and my phone has been ringing non stop to haul heavy equipment to El Paso to go over the boarder , this **** isnt cheap , nor is transporting it ....... I dont know what is going on down there , but something is .......

Im glad you have work...

But the amount of money going into their economy is going down, as a lot of it comes from money from folks working here being sent back to family there -- so when the service industry gets dinged here, illegals feel it first, and in turn less is sent accross the boarder.

[Spider]

Im glad you have work...

But the amount of money going into their economy is going down, as a lot of it comes from money from folks working here being sent back to family there -- so when the service industry gets dinged here, illegals feel it first, and in turn less is sent accross the boarder.

I dont know where that comes from , Mexico is one of the few countries that Export alot more oil then they use ..... But even more then that , produce , peppers etc ........ Hatch New mexico comes close in Chilie peppers , but alot of produce finds its way through Mexico to America cause of the laws of ports etc ........
Limes , Lemons , alot of Japanese fruits also ........ but oh well

[Bob]

it cost 16.00 per barrel to get shale oil , I dont know the cost of Sand oil , I have never been around it , nor worked in the field , but I know Shale oil , it is here , Bob I dont know where you live ,but if you live in Colorado , take hwy 13 north out of rifle , take a left on Rio Blanco county rd 5 ( aka PieanceCreek) go 20 + miles to Cow creek rd , take a left and see where it leads and what is up there ..........

Hopefully they will do it then. I remember reading about the costs to produce shale in Canada, and thought it was quite a bit higher than the current open market price.

Guess, I just hope they dont wait for the next spike befor they decide to create more energy, I dont care if they get it from grinding up spotted owls, or "clean" solar -- the less we rely on unfreindly sources, the happier I'll be.

[Spider]

Hopefully they will do it then. I remember reading about the costs to produce shale in Canada, and thought it was quite a bit higher than the current open market price.

Guess, I just hope they dont wait for the next spike befor they decide to create more energy, I dont care if they get it from grinding up spotted owls, or "clean" solar -- the less we rely on unfreindly sources, the happier I'll be.

problem with Crude and refined fossil fuels is , it has a shelf life ..... we cant just store the product at will ...... you can store crude in (Salt domes ) for long periods of time ......

[Paladin]

I think as much of the isseu is that there needs to be a great deal of water to produce shale oil. Companies are buying up shares of the Yampa for shale projects. Big issue is transporting it to the refineries.

[cutthemdown]

The Sands oil has alot of potential , but the cost to " squeeze " oil from the sand is very costly , and the grade of oil is close to that of Shale ......
I wish it was easier to get oil from sand oil ,it would be alot better then drilling up the mountain sides of Colorado ......

I agree we would be better of not needing it. But in reality we should have the ability and technology in place to get to that shale and sand oil if needed.

Environmental concerns must be addressed but someday we may need that oil.

[baja]

Really all it is good for.

If drilling for that oil is going to save us, someone please tell me why the U.S. government has documents on the books about how to invade Saudi Arabia and secure the oil fields in case of an emergency? We don't have any kind of easily accessible way to get ourselves off their oil, period, and the fact we once had a "Plan B" that included invading the KSA shows it. That plus the fairly basic fact that the proven oil to come out of there could literally be sucked up by American consumption in less than a year says a lot too.



BTW, the barrel will be heading back up at least by Spring, and probably before hand. Enjoy it while you can.

I have been wondering why the obvious solution for foreign oil independence, coal sun wind etc was not persuaded a long time ago, then I realized that it is not civilian energy independence that was the real concern it is military energy. It would be relatively easy to implement alternate sources of energy for the American citizenry but the American military must have oil. The military industrial complex (or those that control it) is the real decider in this country.

[NaptownChief]

if it was me every mother ****ing registered republican would have hos voting privileges revoked on the grounds of stupidity ............


You better be glad that things aren't up to you because if they handed out rights and privileges based on intelligence and decision making you would have been put on death row long ago.

[Spider]

You better be glad that things aren't up to you because if they handed out rights and privileges based on intelligence and decision making you would have been put on death row long ago.

you have been bested so many times down here in arguments , you should have left this one alone ....... :rofl:

[Spider]

I agree we would be better of not needing it. But in reality we should have the ability and technology in place to get to that shale and sand oil if needed.

Environmental concerns must be addressed but someday we may need that oil.

;D we got the shale , I have moved shale oil drilling rigs into Pieance creek Colorado , the Bakin patch is just flat out cranking , last I heard 4-12 drilling rigs per pad ( last time i seen that was the Mesa and Jonah Patch ) But for some odd reason they havent touched Boars tusk .....
there was rumors of opening up the Atlantic rim ( north of Walcot junction here in Wyoming ) but 2 of the nations biggest drillers are not coming back to wyoming ...... Utah is still a Bonanza of oil and natty gas .......

[NaptownChief]

you have been bested so many times down here in arguments , you should have left this one alone ....... :rofl:



It is true that if I want to insult you and make you look bad the best thing I can do is just get out of the way and let you keep talking. Nobody has the ability to make you look as bad as you do every time you open your trap.

[Spider]

It is true that if I want to insult you and make you look bad the best thing I can do is just get out of the way and let you keep talking. Nobody has the ability to make you look as bad as you do every time you open your trap.

then take your own advice and move along .............

[defenseman]

Iran, is working even harder and faster to ensure they get the "bomb". The economic factor is just exaserbating this need...dman