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View Full Version : Say goodbye to the beloved "zone" running shceme


ZONA
01-13-2009, 12:05 AM
Goodbye dear friend. It was very nice knowing you all these years. You have been very good to us for a long time. You have produced more 1000 yard rushers in the past 15 years then some teams have seen in the past 30.

McDaniels is sure to send ya a pink slip. But don't fear, I'm sure Super Shanny will hire you just as soon as he gets a HC job.

:welcome:

BroncoDoug
01-13-2009, 12:07 AM
Now what are we going to say...Cuz "X" Player no longer will break off 2K in our system!! We don't have that system anymore!

TheDave
01-13-2009, 12:08 AM
As someone else brought up here... the Patriots ran some zone as well. It will be different but not completely gone.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 12:11 AM
This oline is much better at pass protection then zone blocking in the run game. I'm not worried at all Broncos offense is going to score more points next yr then it did last yr.

tsiguy96
01-13-2009, 12:11 AM
good hillis in the spread is SICK

Rocky Mountain Stampede
01-13-2009, 12:12 AM
Bobby Turner is going to be the toughest loss. His tenure with the team dates all the way back to 1995. A great coach and super human being that can't be replaced.

ZONA
01-13-2009, 12:25 AM
good hillis in the spread is SICK

That's the shizzle :strong: :strong: :strong: :strong: :strong:

Jetmeck
01-13-2009, 12:31 AM
Are we sure Bobby Turner is gone ?

Popps
01-13-2009, 12:35 AM
Now what are we going to say...Cuz "X" Player no longer will break off 2K in our system!! We don't have that system anymore!

NEW system. They'll break off 2K in our new, improved system.

It's a lock.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 12:39 AM
Bobby Turner is going to be the toughest loss. His tenure with the team dates all the way back to 1995. A great coach and super human being that can't be replaced.

I agree I was hoping he would stay on. Are you sure hes been fired also?

TDmvp
01-13-2009, 12:52 AM
/lame ...

BroncoMan4ever
01-13-2009, 01:29 AM
technically last season we were best when we were doing a straight ahead power running game instead of the ZBS.

If we are going into next season with Hillis as our primary, or if we bring in Ward like i would prefer, i would rather us use the same run blocking we used with Hillis.

tsiguy96
01-13-2009, 01:46 AM
technically last season we were best when we were doing a straight ahead power running game instead of the ZBS.

If we are going into next season with Hillis as our primary, or if we bring in Ward like i would prefer, i would rather us use the same run blocking we used with Hillis.

i think tahts more of a modified ZBS, not a true stretch style play.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-13-2009, 01:51 AM
Oh god, I'm just beginning to realize how sweet things might turn out to be.

Of course Cutler scared me more the last two years.

OBF1
01-13-2009, 01:54 AM
NEW system. They'll break off 2K in our new, improved system.

It's a lock.

Championship...mail it in :wiggle:

Popps
01-13-2009, 02:52 AM
Oh god, I'm just beginning to realize how sweet things might turn out to be.

Of course Cutler scared me more the last two years.

Haven't heard any news on Herm yet, Boobs. Getting a little worried there, jiggles?

BroncoMan4ever
01-13-2009, 02:53 AM
i think tahts more of a modified ZBS, not a true stretch style play.

and that is more in line with what NE runs when they do run the ball. they don't run the stretch plays, just straight ahead. and with the types of RB's i think we should have, it works better

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 03:02 AM
Haven't heard any news on Herm yet, Boobs. Getting a little worried there, jiggles?

Herm is staying. I'd say it's about 90% at this point he coaches Chiefs next yr.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 03:07 AM
I think that the owner in KC is telling GMS he wants Edwards to get one more yr and that is slowing the search.

If KC does want a coach they are waiting while all the other teams pick there man? Browns/Lions/Jets all still need coaches right? What about Rams did they fire coach?

I did hear in a blog that Dan Reeves has said he wants to coach again.

How about it KC? A little Reeves for ya?

montrose
01-13-2009, 03:16 AM
The more I read and watch of McDaniels, the more apparent it becomes that we're going to be running the New England scheme. This doesn't necessarily mean we're going empty shotgun every play as he adapted the offense this year to using more running, but the it's likely that we're going to be looking a lot like the 2007 Patriots offense did with Marshall, Royal, Stokley and Scheffler the weapons.

Not sure what will happen at the RB position but I figure Hillis will be a guy McDaniels will love to use with his versatility, route-running and hands. I'm not sure where Torain will fit into things, if at all. Alridge brings a speed element that may attract him although I think Selvin's pass-blocking and receiving skills may surprise Josh a bit. We'll have to see, it's pretty exciting though.

fontaine
01-13-2009, 03:42 AM
Has Turner been fired?

If not then I call bs on this thread. Every team runs some ZB plays, we just do it more often. I doubt they get rid of the entire thing, just mix it up more.

Bob's your Information Minister
01-13-2009, 03:59 AM
Haven't heard any news on Herm yet, Boobs. Getting a little worried there, jiggles?

Who?

Lycan
01-13-2009, 04:14 AM
Now what are we going to say...Cuz "X" Player no longer will break off 2K in our system!! We don't have that system anymore!

Considering McDaniels prior work, "He'll throw for 5k in our system!"

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 04:18 AM
Has Turner been fired?

If not then I call bs on this thread. Every team runs some ZB plays, we just do it more often. I doubt they get rid of the entire thing, just mix it up more.

People are just speculating out of control. The season was a bummer even though we finished at 8-8 just like I predicted. I thought I prepared myself for it but it unfolded in such a way I too got sucked in to wanting to make the playoffs so badly it hurt when it was bumbled away.

I think people a little nervous about life without Shanny. He really meant a lot to old time Bronco fans like some of us here who can remember how much it killed our souls to lose those Superbowls the way we did.

For the new fans who didn't experience that I can tell you that it's 10 times worst then what happened this yr in terms of how hard it is to deal with.

I wouldn't say the Broncos will look radically different. All teams run the plays we do. In fact lately Shanny been copying a lot of what McDaniels was already doing.

Our running game has pretty much stunk last 2 yrs so im not so nostalgic for our scheme. We have some bigger players now upfront and look for Denver to still look for more size and depth in the interior lineman area. Hamilton is a smaller guy and IMO the new regime may look for his replacement for down the road. Obviously center is a big concern.

Inkana7
01-13-2009, 05:15 AM
It's not gone at all. The Pats ran a tone of Zone blocking with McDaniels.

Drek
01-13-2009, 05:42 AM
Has Dennison even officially moved on to a different position yet?

alkemical
01-13-2009, 06:26 AM
Has Dennison even officially moved on to a different position yet?

He's interviewing for jobs....

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 06:43 AM
I don't want to change my adopt a Bronco.

alkemical
01-13-2009, 06:50 AM
I don't want you too either.

colonelbeef
01-13-2009, 07:05 AM
Our running game has pretty much stunk last 2 yrs so im not so nostalgic for our scheme. .

Team Rushing:
2008:
12 Denver Broncos

2007:
9 Denver Broncos


So a top 10 finish in 2007 with what was essentially a rookie QB and our best back being Selvin Young when Travis Henry decided to ruin his career and life instead of play football for a living, and a 12th place finish in 2008 when there were unprecedented injuries to the RB position to the point where we literally had to take a guy out of a cell phone booth so we could finish the season, rookies all over the place including LT and FB, 4 new starters on the OL and a brand new RT- a running game that was often abandoned in favor of passing as the defense couldn't get stops and we were forced to play catch up- despite all of this, this is what constitutes failure to you?


Denver Broncos fans- The Yankees fans of the Midwest

complaining about the Denver Broncos running game under Mike Shanahan. I have now seen it all. This is a classic example of not knowing how good you had it until it is gone. We should be scratching and clawing to keep Dennison, Bates, and Turner.

Dedhed
01-13-2009, 07:14 AM
I could care less about Dennison leaving, and I can take or leave Bates as well. But Turner is the best in the business, and I would hate to see him go.

cmhargrove
01-13-2009, 07:16 AM
Team Rushing:
2008:
12 Denver Broncos

2007:
9 Denver Broncos


So a top 10 finish in 2007 with what was essentially a rookie QB and our best back being Selvin Young when Travis Henry decided to ruin his career and life instead of play football for a living, and a 12th place finish in 2008 when there were unprecedented injuries to the RB position to the point where we literally had to take a guy out of a cell phone booth so we could finish the season, rookies all over the place including LT and FB, 4 new starters on the OL and a brand new RT- a running game that was often abandoned in favor of passing as the defense couldn't get stops and we were forced to play catch up- despite all of this, this is what constitutes failure to you?


Denver Broncos fans- The Yankees fans of the Midwest

complaining about the Denver Broncos running game under Mike Shanahan. I have now seen it all. This is a classic example of not knowing how good you had it until it is gone. We should be scratching and clawing to keep Dennison, Bates, and Turner.

I agree with this, we have had it very good, but we need to be willing to scrap all "yardage" categories for "scoring" categories. If it takes a new evolution to get more rushing TD's - so be it.

Anyone who thinks we run a stretch / bootleg gameplan anymore needs to re-watch last season. Things have already changed in Denver.

We need to keep Bobby Turner because he is damn good at his job, but it doesn't mean that the only thing he teaches is zone running.

Broncos_OTM
01-13-2009, 07:32 AM
I agree with this, we have had it very good, but we need to be willing to scrap all "yardage" categories for "scoring" categories. If it takes a new evolution to get more rushing TD's - so be it.

Anyone who thinks we run a stretch / bootleg gameplan anymore needs to re-watch last season. Things have already changed in Denver.

We need to keep Bobby Turner because he is damn good at his job, but it doesn't mean that the only thing he teaches is zone running.
Word. i dont see how everyone can say we run the zone stretch much anymore i seen it a handful of times last season. People watch the games and think when we run the ball its ZBS which is crap

colonelbeef
01-13-2009, 07:41 AM
Word. i dont see how everyone can say we run the zone stretch much anymore i seen it a handful of times last season. People watch the games and think when we run the ball its ZBS which is crap

I'mnot defending one aspect of the running scheme- I am defending the running game under Mike Shanahan, which shouldn't need defending whatsoever.

bpc
01-13-2009, 07:44 AM
I think Hillis could easily be the feature back next season with McNugget at the helm.

cmhargrove
01-13-2009, 07:45 AM
Word. i dont see how everyone can say we run the zone stretch much anymore i seen it a handful of times last season. People watch the games and think when we run the ball its ZBS which is crap

As a matter of fact, watching Hillis run out of a single back set against a nickel defense gave me chills. We were pounding the rock on inside runs like I haven't seen in a long time. If Hillis had remained healthy, this team would have made the playoffs for better or worse.

We don't need the zone stretch anymore. It was obvious that more teams were becoming very good at defending it. It should be a good component of the offense, just not the cornerpiece.

Garcia Bronco
01-13-2009, 07:51 AM
The PAtriots haven't been able to consistently run the ball for 3 years.

fontaine
01-13-2009, 07:52 AM
Word. i dont see how everyone can say we run the zone stretch much anymore i seen it a handful of times last season. People watch the games and think when we run the ball its ZBS which is crap

No we did run a lot of zone stuff early on in the season but as we kept losing more and more RBs we pretty much used guys like Kuper/Clady/Graham as lead blockers and ran straight behind them especially with Hillis in red zone plays which were pretty effective.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 08:08 AM
Team Rushing:
2008:
12 Denver Broncos

2007:
9 Denver Broncos


So a top 10 finish in 2007 with what was essentially a rookie QB and our best back being Selvin Young when Travis Henry decided to ruin his career and life instead of play football for a living, and a 12th place finish in 2008 when there were unprecedented injuries to the RB position to the point where we literally had to take a guy out of a cell phone booth so we could finish the season, rookies all over the place including LT and FB, 4 new starters on the OL and a brand new RT- a running game that was often abandoned in favor of passing as the defense couldn't get stops and we were forced to play catch up- despite all of this, this is what constitutes failure to you?


Denver Broncos fans- The Yankees fans of the Midwest

complaining about the Denver Broncos running game under Mike Shanahan. I have now seen it all. This is a classic example of not knowing how good you had it until it is gone. We should be scratching and clawing to keep Dennison, Bates, and Turner.


Ok I won't go into what excuses you use for running game not being better and just talk about the stats and how you see top 10 as something so significant.

In 2007 Broncos had only 10 rushing tds, and 13 fumbles. IMO that is loathsome. By comparison the top team that yr had 22 tds.

In 2007 Broncos had only 10 yrds a game more then the 16th ranked team.

I won't even go into this yr we know running game didn't get it done.

Sometimes injuries make sense, sometimes they don't. Pittman is older player and rbs that are old can go down anytime. Selvin is just small and soft and IMO not big enough to take the pounding of NFL. Hillis probably just a freak thing. Broncos need more talent at RB and it needs to be better then some weak top 10 stat you cling to.

Broncos last few yrs have not ran with power on short yardage with consistency. The have not had a RB that consistently get's it into the endzone.

Oh yeah and Broncos stink throwing to the RB. I'm hoping this new regime changes that.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 08:10 AM
The PAtriots haven't been able to consistently run the ball for 3 years.

Yep in many ways much like us on offense except they turned ball over less.

Kaylore
01-13-2009, 08:11 AM
Are we so sure its gone? A lot of coaches install pieces of their offense a season at a time, especially if the existing unit is good. If we go to a man scheme, Hamilton probably won't be able to hang.

Peoples Champ
01-13-2009, 08:12 AM
NEW system. They'll break off 2K in our new, improved system.

It's a lock.



I really hope so.

Rock Chalk
01-13-2009, 08:15 AM
Dennison and Turner are locks to leave.

As ive said before, my guess is Dennison takes the job in SF and Turner goes down to Houston to reunite with Kubes.

theAPAOps5
01-13-2009, 08:17 AM
Bobby Turner is going to be the toughest loss. His tenure with the team dates all the way back to 1995. A great coach and super human being that can't be replaced.

I am grateful that I got to sit right next to him one day at camp and listen to him coach up one of the backs. The guys is a great coach. Its a new era in Denver. Exciting and sad at the same time.

Drek
01-13-2009, 08:18 AM
He's interviewing for jobs....

I know that but he's interviewing for a lateral move and he might not get the job. Hell, Bobby Turner interviewed to be the Saints OC a few years back and still didn't go.

I'd be real skeptical of Dennison or Turner choosing to sit at home instead of working for the Broncos, just because we've changed head coaches.

Wait until they actually get jobs elsewhere and are officially gone before we jump to conclusions.

cmhargrove
01-13-2009, 08:20 AM
Are we so sure its gone? A lot of coaches install pieces of their offense a season at a time, especially if the existing unit is good. If we go to a man scheme, Hamilton probably won't be able to hang.

Good point, I just say it was already gone for most of last year.

We became a spread offense on the first game against the Raiders and it never felt to me like we changed. Every team runs zome variation of the zone stretch play, we just used to be known by it. That all changed last year.

I feel like other teams ran sweep/bootleg plays on us more than we did on them last year. I kept saying "hey, that's our play" when I saw it. Even Tyler Thigpen did it.

We've already changed, and it looked really good to me. We just need healthy Rb's and Cutler to make better decisions.

Smiling Assassin27
01-13-2009, 08:50 AM
I wonder if the days of having the lightest line in the league are numbered as well. We're gonna need some nut-punchin', drug runnin', fat a$$ metaphors.

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 09:11 AM
I watched a very cool film clip with TD about ten years ago that I always remember. It was TD and Bobby Turner kind of joking around and talking about the run game. TD shared how Turner taught him how to see how the gaps were going to open up, before they opened. I forget exactly how Turner put it, but it was like there were fields of energy you needed to perceive on the field and the correct path for every situation would become illuminated or something like that. That's when I thought, "This dude is the Yoda of the running game." Bobby Turner: The Shivas Irons of football. ;D

easymobee
01-13-2009, 09:31 AM
Herm is staying. I'd say it's about 90% at this point he coaches Chiefs next yr.

Reading the planet I have read that you've lost nearly 100 lbs , any recent pics?

montrose
01-13-2009, 09:39 AM
I think Hillis could easily be the feature back next season with McNugget at the helm.

I think Josh is going to get a heart on when he watches Hillis on film - particularly the Miami game. I'm not sure what role Peyton will fill. He could be our starting HB, an H-Back, hybrid FB/HB - but I'm pretty sure he's not going to be serving the exclusive FB role that Heath Evans did, just coming into block on short yardage situations. That role could go to Pinnock, or a new FB, or Hillis could slide to FB with Torain or another back at HB to save a roster spot. No one really knows now but I'm excited to see how Hillis is used in the offense.

theAPAOps5
01-13-2009, 09:58 AM
I think Josh is going to get a heart on when he watches Hillis on film - particularly the Miami game.

Is a heart on the same as a hard on but the heart becomes erect?

PRBronco
01-13-2009, 09:58 AM
I worry that Ben Hamilton won't be around much longer if we get rid of the zone. I wouldn't like that one bit :(

PRBronco
01-13-2009, 09:59 AM
Is a heart on the same as a hard on but the heart becomes erect?

"Is it love?"

"I know what an erection feels like Michael, this is the opposite...it's like my heart is getting hard."

Anyone???

Kaylore
01-13-2009, 10:00 AM
"Is it love?"

"I know what an erection feels like Michael, this is the opposite...it's like my heart is getting hard."

Anyone???

TMNT II
Secret of the Ooze?

eddie mac
01-13-2009, 10:04 AM
Don't know whether anyone has mentioned this yet but Dennison's rumoured replacement at OC, Davidson according to the DP is a ZBS guy in Carolina.

PRBronco
01-13-2009, 10:05 AM
TMNT II
Secret of the Ooze?

Very close. About how close we are to a championship defense.

baja
01-13-2009, 10:29 AM
"Is it love?"

"I know what an erection feels like Michael, this is the opposite...it's like my heart is getting hard."

Anyone???

It's what causes harding of the arteries.

Drek
01-13-2009, 10:40 AM
I think Hillis could easily be the feature back next season with McNugget at the helm.

I'm betting he instead uses him like a super version of Kevin Faulk. Faulk has been in the 50-70 carries, 40-60 receptions range and close to 1K all purpose yardage for them. You give Hillis the super charged version of that role, 10 carries a game and about 5 catches, and you get 160 carries, 80 catches, probably good for around 800-900 rushing yards and 700-800 receiving with 6-8 touchdowns.

Not to mention solid blocking when he's not a ball carrier and a good bail out for option for Cutler.

originalsultan
01-13-2009, 10:50 AM
I think Josh is going to get a heart on when he watches Hillis on film - particularly the Miami game. I'm not sure what role Peyton will fill. He could be our starting HB, an H-Back, hybrid FB/HB - but I'm pretty sure he's not going to be serving the exclusive FB role that Heath Evans did, just coming into block on short yardage situations. That role could go to Pinnock, or a new FB, or Hillis could slide to FB with Torain or another back at HB to save a roster spot. No one really knows now but I'm excited to see how Hillis is used in the offense.

Usually when a team goes from the I formation to a single back formation, the tailback stays on the field and the fullback heads to the sideline. But with Hillis as fullback, maybe he stays on the field and the tailback heads to the sideline.

Like you I don't know how this is going to work out, but we can both agree that Hillis was one of the most pleasant surprises this season. I look forward to seeing how the new coach uses him.

outdoor_miner
01-13-2009, 11:01 AM
Don't know whether anyone has mentioned this yet but Dennison's rumoured replacement at OC, Davidson according to the DP is a ZBS guy in Carolina.

That's very interesting. Carolina had a dominant running attack this year, too. I didn't realize it was based on ZBS, but you're right. If McDaniels hires Davidson or retains Dennison, I think it would be a pretty good indication that he values the running game more than some posters are giving him credit for.

Kid A
01-13-2009, 11:17 AM
"Is it love?"

"I know what an erection feels like Michael, this is the opposite...it's like my heart is getting hard."

Anyone???

:rofl: Arrested Devlopment. Classic Job line.

montrose
01-13-2009, 11:21 AM
Is a heart on the same as a hard on but the heart becomes erect?

Bingo. I miss Arrested Development.

Usually when a team goes from the I formation to a single back formation, the tailback stays on the field and the fullback heads to the sideline. But with Hillis as fullback, maybe he stays on the field and the tailback heads to the sideline.

Like you I don't know how this is going to work out, but we can both agree that Hillis was one of the most pleasant surprises this season. I look forward to seeing how the new coach uses him.

Hillis looked very good out of the singleback set this year, which is a big part of McDaniels offense. McDaniels also likes his RB's that are versatile out of the Shotgun and Hillis is definitely that. I think McDaniels will like Hillis a lot as he has some of Kevin Faulk's pass-receiving skills (Hillis may actually run better routes and have better hands) and is a better power runner than Sammy Morris. I don't know what he'll think of Torain, Alridge and Young - but I'm sure he'll like Hillis.

In fact, two guys I think McDaniels will be pleasantly surprised with that he may not be expecting are Hillis and Nate Jackson.