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ZONA
01-12-2009, 08:48 PM
Well, so it's finally a 3-4. Awesome.

That said, the weakest link is still the DL but now I think DT becomes the #1 pick instead of DE. Thomas will probably compete there because I don't see him as an end at all. Time for him to step up if he wants to start. If not, he's probably rotation material at NT.

I think Ekuban will start at one End and the other side I have no clue. I don't see anybody we have doing well there. Crowder seems like the best fit based on his body type and speed but his skills are weak. I actually think Engelberger stays now and fills back up behind Ekuban. Peterson and Robertson are lost in this lineup I think. I don't think either are up for NT and both are too slow for End.

I think Safety now becomes the 2nd pick and a CB and LB following that. Then some more DL help if we keep all our picks.

I think we finally will see Moss blossom now that he will be an outside backer in the 3-4. I think that role fits him great. I'm sold that he along with WW and DJ will hold 3 of the spots at LB. I'm not counting on Boss to do anything but get hurt again by the 2nd or 3rd game.

So who should we draft at NT with our #1 pick?

gunns
01-12-2009, 08:51 PM
BJ Raji?

Rock Chalk
01-12-2009, 08:53 PM
NT, LB, DE, Safety, all very pressing needs now. I dont think we have enough draft picks.

elsid13
01-12-2009, 08:53 PM
I would actually wait and pick up Brace from BC in 2nd or 3rd . See if Powell can bulk up and be something to.

Or trade back if possible and pick Raji around 17 to 20.

gunns
01-12-2009, 08:55 PM
Just went to this draft site and low and behold that's who they have Denver taking, Raji. Says it was updated Jan. 3. How did they know we'd need a NT?

I want the best safety. It's my turn.

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock_Drafts/2009_nfl_mock_draft.htm

loborugger
01-12-2009, 08:56 PM
I guess this means you arent one of the "get Haynesworth now!" sycophants? Good. It would be nice if Marcus Thomas could play there. He is 40 lbs lighter than Jamal Williams, however, he is only 20 lighter than Vince Wilfork & Casey Hampton. As he is 23 right now, he could put the weight on. However, while he might be able to eat his way to NT, I am not sure the skill will follow. But I have hope the kid can get it done.

TheReverend
01-12-2009, 08:58 PM
Screw it, grab a pair of hogs on day two.

I still want my shiny new linebacker ****ers.

lex
01-12-2009, 08:59 PM
I would actually wait and pick up Brace from BC in 2nd or 3rd . See if Powell can bulk up and be something to.

Or trade back if possible and pick Raji around 17 to 20.


Exactly. At 12 DT is a reach but Brace should be there in the second. He may be a reach there but less of one than Raji at 12.

Rock Chalk
01-12-2009, 08:59 PM
Screw it, grab a pair of hogs on day two.

I still want my shiny new linebacker ****ers.

+ 1

broncosteven
01-12-2009, 09:01 PM
If we are really going 3-4 we need a Blue chip NT.

We still need 2 Safeties on day 1.

MickeyD better not get a hard on for a WR in round 1 or 2. If he does his stay will not be long.

lex
01-12-2009, 09:06 PM
If we are really going 3-4 we need a Blue chip NT.

We still need 2 Safeties on day 1.

MickeyD better not get a hard on for a WR in round 1 or 2. If he does his stay will not be long.

What DT is there in the draft thats slotted to go in the top 10?

gunns
01-12-2009, 09:08 PM
If we are really going 3-4 we need a Blue chip NT.

We still need 2 Safeties on day 1.

MickeyD better not get a hard on for a WR in round 1 or 2. If he does his stay will not be long.


I would have a total melt down

broncosteven
01-12-2009, 09:09 PM
What DT is there in the draft thats slotted to go in the top 10?

Dunno, socal is pimping some Raji guy. I think switching to new HC and D scheme in one year is way too much.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 09:11 PM
BJ Raji from Boston College is an impressive specimin, but a bad citizen....

And Marcus Thomas would be an excellent fit at 3-4 DE, as would Kenny Peterson. Maybe Crowder, too.

broncosteven
01-12-2009, 09:15 PM
BJ Raji from Boston College is an impressive specimin, but a bad citizen....

And Marcus Thomas would be an excellent fit at 3-4 DE, as would Kenny Peterson. Maybe Crowder, too.

So if we have to burn our #1 at NT do they seriously consider moving Champ to FS a la Bernard Jackson? Bly and Bell at CB and Champ freelancing?

That means 2nd round pick for SS or LB?

DB_champ24
01-12-2009, 09:15 PM
There's a lot of good D talent in this years draft. I wish we had 2 first rounders. Mays and Raji would be amazing.

Gcver2ver3
01-12-2009, 09:16 PM
Well, so it's finally a 3-4. Awesome.

That said, the weakest link is still the DL but now I think DT becomes the #1 pick instead of DE. Thomas will probably compete there because I don't see him as an end at all. Time for him to step up if he wants to start. If not, he's probably rotation material at NT.

I think Ekuban will start at one End and the other side I have no clue. I don't see anybody we have doing well there. Crowder seems like the best fit based on his body type and speed but his skills are weak. I actually think Engelberger stays now and fills back up behind Ekuban. Peterson and Robertson are lost in this lineup I think. I don't think either are up for NT and both are too slow for End.

I think Safety now becomes the 2nd pick and a CB and LB following that. Then some more DL help if we keep all our picks.

I think we finally will see Moss blossom now that he will be an outside backer in the 3-4. I think that role fits him great. I'm sold that he along with WW and DJ will hold 3 of the spots at LB. I'm not counting on Boss to do anything but get hurt again by the 2nd or 3rd game.

So who should we draft at NT with our #1 pick?


i don't think Moss will be succesful in the 3-4 scheme at all...he doesn't get low and he's not strong...he has no decent pass rush moves either...he'll just get pushed right on passed the QB no prob...

Doom has the better chance as the SAM IMO...his frame reminds me of Harrison for the Steelers but i question Doom's versatility...

plus i think Peterson can play 3-4 end...and i certainly believe Thomas can play end...Crowder on the other hand i feel is not at all suited to play as an end in a 3-4...

i do agree that Ekuban can play as an end but I don't see Engleberger having a roster spot at all...

i think you're spot on with WW and DJ...and i hope they draft almost exactly as you recommend...

Rock Chalk
01-12-2009, 09:19 PM
i don't think Moss will be succesful in the 3-4 scheme at all...he doesn't get low and he's not strong...he has no decent pass rush moves either...he'll just get pushed right on passed the QB no prob...

Doom has the better chance as the SAM IMO...his frame reminds me of Harrison for the Steelers but i question Doom's versatility...

plus i think Peterson can play 3-4 end...and i certainly believe Thomas can play end...Crowder on the other hand i feel is not at all suited to play as an end in a 3-4...

i do agree that Ekuban can play as an end but I don't see Engleberger having a roster spot at all...

i think you're spot on with WW and DJ...and i hope they draft almost exactly as you recommend...

Moss could be a blitzing LB in a 3-4.

Dumervile isnt fast enough to play LB in a 3-4 and he cant stop the run.

lex
01-12-2009, 09:20 PM
FWIW, here is a list of FA DTs...its kind of thin.

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

If we want to be competitive this year, we may need to trade.

Bob
01-12-2009, 09:21 PM
BJ Raji?

Agreed. For the hell of it -- go after Hanesworth...

Until we get serious about the D line, I dont care if Jimmy Neutron is coach, we get the same outcome.

TheChamp24
01-12-2009, 09:21 PM
Funny how some people don't realize the good NT's aren't always picked so high. The best the past few years before age finally caught up to him was Jamal Williams, and he was a late rounder I believe.
There is no sense in drafting a NT in the 1st round when there is nobody worth the 12th pick in the draft there. You don't draft for need, you draft for best available that you can use. Taylor Mays is a much, MUCH smarter pick than a NT in the 1st. Plus, DL in the 1st round always scares me because it may be the biggest crapshoot of all the positions.
I think we explore DL in the middle rounds and free agency.

Gcver2ver3
01-12-2009, 09:21 PM
Moss could be a blitzing LB in a 3-4.

Dumervile isnt fast enough to play LB in a 3-4 and he cant stop the run.


doubt it for Moss...for the reasons already stated...

and how fast does Doom have to be?...his speed isn't an issue...but as i stated his versatility could be and stopping the run may be a problem for him...

i'd be interested to see him get a chance in that role...i wanna see if he can pull it off with the right coaching...

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 09:22 PM
Haynesworth is a bad citizen, too.

Atlas
01-12-2009, 09:23 PM
Well, so it's finally a 3-4. Awesome.

That said, the weakest link is still the DL but now I think DT becomes the #1 pick instead of DE. Thomas will probably compete there because I don't see him as an end at all. Time for him to step up if he wants to start. If not, he's probably rotation material at NT.

I think Ekuban will start at one End and the other side I have no clue. I don't see anybody we have doing well there. Crowder seems like the best fit based on his body type and speed but his skills are weak. I actually think Engelberger stays now and fills back up behind Ekuban. Peterson and Robertson are lost in this lineup I think. I don't think either are up for NT and both are too slow for End.

I think Safety now becomes the 2nd pick and a CB and LB following that. Then some more DL help if we keep all our picks.

I think we finally will see Moss blossom now that he will be an outside backer in the 3-4. I think that role fits him great. I'm sold that he along with WW and DJ will hold 3 of the spots at LB. I'm not counting on Boss to do anything but get hurt again by the 2nd or 3rd game.

So who should we draft at NT with our #1 pick?

Gerrard Warren would have been good at the nose. Why did Denver trade himagain??

Inkana7
01-12-2009, 09:26 PM
I think Jarvis could pull off the move to 3-4 OLB. Some had him projected there during the draft. And Marcus Thomas and Kenny Peterson are more than capable of playing end. I wouldn't trust both to start though. I think only Thomas is starting DE material. Which means we need another starter at DE. Cris Canty?

Atlas
01-12-2009, 09:26 PM
Haynesworth is a bad citizen, too.

How do you figure. He has been nothing but class since he came to Tennessee. During a game one time he even offered a very ugly Cowboy plastic surgury right on the field. Don't laugh I have see Gurrode since and he does look much better.

Bring in Haynesworth for the AFC WEST has bunches of Ugly OL that will need Haynesworth's services especially in SD and KC..

Inkana7
01-12-2009, 09:27 PM
Haynesworth doesn't have the skillset of a 3-4 Dlineman. He could play end, but that's a waste of his talent, and he isn't big enough to play NT, nor do I think he has the will.

bronco0608
01-12-2009, 09:30 PM
Not a good year for NT's in this draft.

There are only a couple of quality guys above 330 pounds. And really none after Terrance Cody (if he declares) and BJ Raji.

Atlas
01-12-2009, 09:40 PM
I think Jarvis could pull off the move to 3-4 OLB. Some had him projected there during the draft. And Marcus Thomas and Kenny Peterson are more than capable of playing end. I wouldn't trust both to start though. I think only Thomas is starting DE material. Which means we need another starter at DE. Cris Canty?

Thomas could be the nose guard. He is young enough and bigger enough. I'm not sure he is mean enough though.

Inkana7
01-12-2009, 09:43 PM
Thomas could be the nose guard. He is young enough and bigger enough. I'm not sure he is mean enough though.

He's barely 300 lbs, and doesn't have the brute strength of a Casey Hampton or a Jamal Williams. When we toyed around with the 3-4 earlier this year they put Marcus at End, and he played well. That's how he got his interception against Tampa.

He's also more of a penetrator. He wouldn't be suited to the Nose, IMO, but would make an excellent DE.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 09:47 PM
He's barely 300 lbs, and doesn't have the brute strength of a Casey Hampton or a Jamal Williams. When we toyed around with the 3-4 earlier this year they put Marcus at End, and he played well. That's how he got his interception against Tampa.

He's also more of a penetrator. He wouldn't be suited to the Nose, IMO, but would make an excellent DE.
Definitely ... both Thomas and Peterson and maybe even Crowder fit well as 3-4 DEs.

The tough part is NT ... Robertson played reasonably well there the last couple seasons with the Jets, but he's fragile and doesn't care for the 3-4 anyway. Powell is obviously young, and his numbers look too small for NT. We'll need somebody from outside to add to Robertson there.


BTW - in case anybody missed it, Kenny Peterson played on the same high school team with Josh McDaniels. KP was a freshman when McD was a senior ...

Br0nc0Buster
01-12-2009, 09:48 PM
He's barely 300 lbs, and doesn't have the brute strength of a Casey Hampton or a Jamal Williams. When we toyed around with the 3-4 earlier this year they put Marcus at End, and he played well. That's how he got his interception against Tampa.

He's also more of a penetrator. He wouldn't be suited to the Nose, IMO, but would make an excellent DE.

yeah I think we only have 1/3 of our line though.
Dont have any NTs.
And who else besides Thomas can be a decent starter at end?
Peterson maybe, but I think he is best as a backup.
Possibly Robertson

I also think we need a strong side OLB as I dont know who could man that with our current core of LBs

Gcver2ver3
01-12-2009, 09:48 PM
He's barely 300 lbs, and doesn't have the brute strength of a Casey Hampton or a Jamal Williams. When we toyed around with the 3-4 earlier this year they put Marcus at End, and he played well. That's how he got his interception against Tampa.

He's also more of a penetrator. He wouldn't be suited to the Nose, IMO, but would make an excellent DE.

i agree...

but if Thomas was asked to play in Nolan's 2-gap system, wouldn't that mean he'd have to try and fill space versus penetrating anyway?...

SonOfLe-loLang
01-12-2009, 09:51 PM
Haynesworth doesn't have the skillset of a 3-4 Dlineman. He could play end, but that's a waste of his talent, and he isn't big enough to play NT, nor do I think he has the will.

Haynesworth is the kind of talent that could play anywhere, and he's certainly big enough to play NT. Is it the BEST use of his skills...probably not, but he COULD do it.

Atlas
01-12-2009, 09:55 PM
He's barely 300 lbs, and doesn't have the brute strength of a Casey Hampton or a Jamal Williams. When we toyed around with the 3-4 earlier this year they put Marcus at End, and he played well. That's how he got his interception against Tampa.

He's also more of a penetrator. He wouldn't be suited to the Nose, IMO, but would make an excellent DE.

He is 305. He could get to 320 without too much problem. The best NT in the NFL is Casey Hampton and he weighsin at 325lbs. Thomas could do it and he would be very disruptive.

BroncoMan4ever
01-12-2009, 09:57 PM
NT, LB, DE, Safety, all very pressing needs now. I dont think we have enough draft picks.

which is exactly the reason i would prefer us stay in the 4-3. i feel we are closer to being a good 4-3 than we are to be a mediocre 3-4.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 09:58 PM
He is 305. He could get to 320 without too much problem. The best NT in the NFL is Casey Hampton and he weighsin at 325lbs. Thomas could do it and he would be very disruptive.I dunno there ... his quickness and speed are far more evident than his brute strength. And 15 pounds is a big jump for a guy who's been putting on weight for two years now anyway.

Robertson is our only NT now, and imo we really need to get another one - preferably a veteran - right away.

OBF1
01-12-2009, 10:00 PM
Lets be real... We are not close to a good 4-3 or a good 3-4, Tear it down and start all over.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 10:15 PM
How do you figure. He has been nothing but class since he came to Tennessee. During a game one time he even offered a very ugly Cowboy plastic surgury right on the field. Don't laugh I have see Gurrode since and he does look much better.He's a bad citizen for many more reasons than just the Gurode spectacle.

I'm not sure he's selfless enough to play 3-4 NT, anyway ... he could play any DT position - he's that good - but do I want him here? Not at that price, no way. You watch - he'll demand more than Champ is making. And he'll get it from some desperate team.

McDman
01-12-2009, 10:22 PM
Can someone please explain the skill sets needed for each position in a 3-4 as opposed to a 4-3.

theAPAOps5
01-12-2009, 10:25 PM
Can someone please explain the skill sets needed for each position in a 3-4 as opposed to a 4-3.

You are required to be much bigger in the 3-4. Your main role is to occupy the blocker so the OLB or ILB can shoot the gap. At least thats my take and thats very basic. There is more too it but they are more blockers for the blitzing back. You get pressure by blitzing more than just line penetration.

SoDak Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:32 PM
what about Pat Williams from Minn, isn't he a free agent?

Hamrob
01-12-2009, 10:32 PM
Where the hell was it that Mickey D said he's going to implement a 3-4? Please post that link.

Otherwise, I think it's a bad...very poor decision to do so...in his first year has HC.

Look, I don't care how good you are. He's not going to come in and change the offense and then implement a 3-4 from a 4-3 all in one year. Not if he think's he's going to make the playoffs...especially with our schedule next year.

Had Shanny stayed...we were almost certainly going to be in the playoffs next year. If Mickey D fails to take us to the playoffs next year after a 3 year drout...then he's going to be considered a bust!

McLuvin
01-12-2009, 10:39 PM
Sorry but we dont need to draft a DT with our first round pick, The only thing we have to do is draft a true NT in Brace out of Boston COllege in the 3rd round. Or go after Gabe Watson.

Marcus Thomas could probably play it also but i can see him being a rushing DE in the 3-4. Along with Peterson and Powell.

Our biggest need now is an dynomite Inside LB like rey maulego. but if hes not there the pick is still Taylor Mays. gurantee

SoDak Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:39 PM
Where the hell was it that Mickey D said he's going to implement a 3-4? Please post that link.

Otherwise, I think it's a bad...very poor decision to do so...in his first year has HC.

Look, I don't care how good you are. He's not going to come in and change the offense and then implement a 3-4 from a 4-3 all in one year. Not if he think's he's going to make the playoffs...especially with our schedule next year.

Had Shanny stayed...we were almost certainly going to be in the playoffs next year. If Mickey D fails to take us to the playoffs next year after a 3 year drout...then he's going to be considered a bust!


Have you seen our schedule for next year? We would be lucky to make it to the playoffs without making some major changes to our scheme. It can't be worse than last year. So if you are going to consider him a bust after one year you are an idiot anyway.

SoDak Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:40 PM
Sorry but we dont need to draft a DT with our first round pick, The only thing we have to do is draft a true NT in Brace out of Boston COllege in the 3rd round. Or go after Gabe Watson.

Marcus Thomas could probably play it also but i can see him being a rushing DE in the 3-4. Along with Peterson and Powell.

Our biggest need now is an dynomite Inside LB like rey maulego. but if hes not there the pick is still Taylor Mays. gurantee

completely disagree. If you are going to make a 3-4 work you need to have a stout NT, and Marcus Thomas would be the worst NT in a 3-4 ever. Are you kidding me?

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 10:44 PM
completely disagree. If you are going to make a 3-4 work you need to have a stout NT, and Marcus Thomas would be the worst NT in a 3-4 ever. Are you kidding me?That's correct, Thomas is not a 3-4 NT ... but he is a good 3-4 DE, as is Peterson and maybe Crwoder.

But drafting Brace is a good idea ... I dunno iuf he'll last to the 3rd round, though. #12 is too high for Mays, too low for Maualuga.

McLuvin
01-12-2009, 10:45 PM
completely disagree. If you are going to make a 3-4 work you need to have a stout NT, and Marcus Thomas would be the worst NT in a 3-4 ever. Are you kidding me?

I clearly said he could......But me personally i see him as a rushing DE in the 3-4........Thomas is very strong when you watch him on film. I dont know why you believe its impossible for a talent like him. Casey Hampton is smaller than Thomas and it stoute....

But yeah.....Brace in the 3rd is way more stout than any tackle coming out. Thats who id put in the middle of my 3-4/

SoCalBronco
01-12-2009, 10:45 PM
Raji....Raji...Raji.

TheDave
01-12-2009, 10:47 PM
I agree with the Ron Brace option... Also keep an eye on Orakpo or Everet Brown as possibilities @ #12

SoDak Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:49 PM
i've said Bj Raji before i knew we were going 3-4, it makes even more sense now. You build the defense from the inside out. Mcdaniels knows this from Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork. Not sure if Raji is going to be considered a risk at the 12 slot, maybe we can trade back a little bit and acquire an extra 3rd or 2nd.

McLuvin
01-12-2009, 10:52 PM
Can someone please explain the skill sets needed for each position in a 3-4 as opposed to a 4-3.

Here you go........

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/broncosfreaks/3-4-defense.png

With the recent success of AFC playoff teams such as the New England Patriots, the Pittsburgh Steelers, and the San Diego Chargers, the 3-4 D has come back in style. In 2005, 5 NFL teams (the Broncos, Browns, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Niners) may switch to the 3-4 as their base defense, bringing the total to 10 teams (including the Chargers, Patriots, Raiders, Steelers, and Texans) who favor the system. So what is the 3-4 D? This article discusses:

How the 3-4 defense differs from the 4-3 defense
What are the personnel requirements for the 3-4 defense
What are the advantages of the 3-4 defense

How the 3-4 defense differs from the 4-3 defense

The 4-3 D has the following characteristics:

There are 4 defensive lineman (DL) and 3 linebackers (LBs)
On plays where a LB or DB does not blitz, the pass rush is generated by the defensive linemen. The DEs in particular must be able to get pressure on the QB. The best/fastest pass rushing DE typically plays at RDE and is referred to as the "rush end". The LDE is referred to as the "base end" and must be solid against the run, because teams often run strong-side, which is the side where the TE is, and the TE often lines up next to the RT. The DEs play from a 3-point stance, so they have a hand on the ground
The SLB (strong-side LB) matches up against the TE. SLBs typically range from 240-250 and are on the taller side for a LB. The MLB (middle LB) plays the middle of the field and provides run support. MLBs typically range from 240-255, although some teams get away with an undersized MLB (e.g. the Jets' Jonathan Vilma) by protecting him with beefy DTs. The WLB (weak-side LB) often plays in space, has the freedom to flow to the ball, and must have good range. WLBs are often undersized compared to the other LBs.

The 3-4 D has the following characteristics:

There are 3 defensive lineman (DL) and 4 linebackers (LBs)
The primary function of the DL is to protect the LBs and play the run. Each defensive lineman is responsible for 2 gaps
The pass rush is generated by the 3-4 OLBs. On almost every play, 1 of the OLBs will rush the QB. The OLBs play from a 2-point stance, so they're standing up



What are the personnel requirements for the 3-4 defense

The front 7 players in the 3-4 D are significantly different from their counterparts in the 4-3. In a nutshell, the DL in the 3-4 are bigger than the DL in the 4-3. The 3-4 OLBs are bigger than 4-3 OLBs because they have to match up against OTs.

3-4 NT is the toughest position to fill. The NT is head-up on the OC and is responsible for defending both A gaps in the running game. He faces constant double-teams and takes a pounding. He must have size, mental and physical toughness, stamina, durability, lateral quickness, and good technique in terms of playing with leverage. If the NT can not hold his ground, the defense is very vulnerable to runs between the tackles. The prototypical 3-4 NT is the Raiders' Ted Washington, who is a massive 6-5 365. Washington was the key to the Patriots win over the Panthers in the 2004 Super Bowl. Stephen Davis ran for a meager 19 yards on his first 9 carries, because Washington effectively stuffed the middle of the line. Other quality NTs include the Steelers' Casey Hampton (6-1 320) and the Chargers' Jamal Williams (6-2 348)

3-4 OLBs are the playmakers of the D. They get the glory of picking up sacks on the QB. They must have strong pass rush skills and be able to drop into coverage. If the 3-4 OLBs are unable to consistently apply pressure on the QB, the D is very vulnerable in the passing game. They tend to weigh around 245-270, and many are former 4-3 DE/OLB "tweeners". Many 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the ability to play in space. The more agile 4-3 RDEs, such as the Jets' John Abraham (6-4 256), are able to play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Many 4-3 OLBs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the pass rush skills and the ability to go toe-to-toe with an OT. Examples of solid 3-4 OLBs are the Patriots' Willie McGinest (6-5 270) and the Steelers' Joey Porter (6-2 248)

3-4 DEs tend to weigh around 290-310, and many are former 4-3 DT/DE "tweeners". They must be able to play the run well. The 3-4 DE is responsible for the B and C gaps in the running game and lines up in the 5-technique position, so he is head-up on the OT. It's tough for a 3-4 DE to pick up as many sacks as a 4-3 DE, because a 3-4 DE doesn't have the freedom to go willy nilly upfield. He has to protect the LBs in order for the 3-4 to work. Panthers' 4-3 DE Julius Peppers said that he didn't like playing 3-4 DE, because he felt like he was essentially a DT. Unlike Peppers (6-6 290), most 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 DE, because they lack the size and ability to hold up against the run. Examples of solid 3-4 DEs are the Patriots' Richard Seymour (6-6 310), the Steelers' Aaron Smith (6-5 300), and the Raiders' Bobby Hamilton (6-5 285)

3-4 ILBs must be stout in run support. Because there are only 3 DL to match up against 5 OL, they must be able to stack and shed an unblocked offensive lineman in the running game. How hard is it to play 3-4 ILB? Check out this telling quote by All-Pro Ray Lewis, who is glad to be finished playing 3-4 ILB (the Ravens are switching from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and 46 for the 2005 season):

"We're in the 46 defense now, and finally, finally again, I get to play football," said Lewis. "My job is not to take on offensive linemen, but to make running backs not want to play against me"

Examples of solid 3-4 ILBs are the former Ravens' Ed Hartwell (6-1 250) and the Raiders' Danny Clark (6-2 245)

What are the advantages of the 3-4 defense

The offense does not know which of the 2 OLBs is going to rush the QB, as both of the OLBs are in a 2-point stance. This creates the following advantages:

It's harder for the offensive linemen to correctly determine their blocking assignments before the snap and execute
It puts more mental pressure on the QB. E.g. the Patriots did a masterful job in disguising their D against 2004 MVP Peyton Manning in the 2005 playoffs. Manning came unglued mentally, and his frustration seemed to affect his performance.

McLuvin
01-12-2009, 10:55 PM
I agree with the Ron Brace option... Also keep an eye on Orakpo or Everet Brown as possibilities @ #12

My boy!! ima FSU fan. Brown is relentless and comes with 3 pass rushing moves straight out of college. He is a beast of a pass rusher.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 10:55 PM
Spencer Larsen would be a pretty good fit at ILB in the 3-4.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 10:56 PM
I like Orakpo a lot, Dave ... but he'll be gone by #6. His stock is gonna skyrocket at the Combine.

TheDave
01-12-2009, 11:00 PM
I like Orakpo a lot, Dave ... but he'll be gone by #6. His stock is gonna skyrocket at the Combine.

I agree he is going to have a monster combine, but keep in mind this year the 1st round is going to run a little deeper than normal (I think). With all the talk of the Rookie salary cap in '10 i think we will see an increase in "top 10" talent that enters the draft. Hopefully this will slide a few players and give us more options (including trading down ;D )

Popps
01-12-2009, 11:01 PM
NT, LB, DE, Safety, all very pressing needs now. I dont think we have enough draft picks.

Exactly. Lots of work to be done.

But, you can take the flip side of that and say... well, there will be SOMEONE we really need at #12. It's not as if we need to cherry-pick. A top S, DT, LB or DE are all musts.

NFLBRONCO
01-12-2009, 11:03 PM
I can't believe we won't trade down now esp going 3-4 we need picks and more picks to bolster D along with FA. NE is a wheeler dealer type so I expect Josh to do it too.

Popps
01-12-2009, 11:07 PM
"We're in the 46 defense now, and finally, finally again, I get to play football," said Lewis. "My job is not to take on offensive linemen, but to make running backs not want to play against me"

Consider that as we talk about who to potentially put inside. If Ray Lewis didn't feel himself fit to be a 3-4 ILB, I'd say it takes a special breed of player.

lex
01-12-2009, 11:11 PM
I can't believe we won't trade down now esp going 3-4 we need picks and more picks to bolster D along with FA. NE is a wheeler dealer type so I expect Josh to do it too.


Theres always the Trade Down Fairy.

DBroncos4life
01-12-2009, 11:16 PM
lol Robertson had 35 more tackles and 3 more sacks out of postion as a NT with the Jets then he did playing in a 4-3 for us. He will be fine playing NT again.

His best years in the NFL was in the 3-4

Chris
01-12-2009, 11:21 PM
I agree the choice would be daft

Br0nc0Buster
01-12-2009, 11:25 PM
lol Robertson had 35 more tackles and 3 more sacks out of postion as a NT with the Jets then he did playing in a 4-3 for us. He will be fine playing NT again.

His best years in the NFL was in the 3-4

Is he really all that good though at NT?
I think we should draft a talented guy to use and he can come in as a rotation.
I know Powell is supposed to be a bit small to be considered for NT, but he was a run stuffing beast in college.
He could be a player

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 11:30 PM
NT, LB, DE, Safety, all very pressing needs now. I dont think we have enough draft picks.
Especially NT, ILB and S. But I think we're good at DE. Going by that article ... Marcus and Kenny and maybe Crowder will work well at 3-4 DEs:

Unlike Peppers (6-6 290), most 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 DE, because they lack the size and ability to hold up against the run.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 11:31 PM
lol Robertson had 35 more tackles and 3 more sacks out of postion as a NT with the Jets then he did playing in a 4-3 for us. He will be fine playing NT again.

His best years in the NFL was in the 3-4
You're correct, but he's too fragile to rely on ... we need a monster to eat up downs. Raji or Brace in the draft (curiously, both are from Boston College) or maybe somebody in free agency. Who's available ???

PRBronco
01-12-2009, 11:33 PM
I agree with the Ron Brace option... Also keep an eye on Orakpo or Everet Brown as possibilities @ #12

I think I'd prefer Aaron Maybin over Okrapo. His numbers are barely better than Crowder's were as a senior, and that scares me.

lex
01-12-2009, 11:33 PM
Here is Ron Brace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vx2CnOeEq4

Here is Raji.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAs7UtO5-S4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM3AmHWAGEg&feature=related

Raji is obviously better but do we really need a play maker or someone who can control that piece of real estate?

TheDave
01-12-2009, 11:35 PM
Is he really all that good though at NT?
I think we should draft a talented guy to use and he can come in as a rotation.
I know Powell is supposed to be a bit small to be considered for NT, but he was a run stuffing beast in college.
He could be a player

This was Carlton's Scouting Report for the 2008 draft...

Positives: Has a large frame with thick thighs and calves...Possesses solid muscle tone in his lower body, with wide hips, broad shoulders and good muscle tone in his arms...Has room on his frame to add another 15 pounds of bulk without having it affect his balance or quickness...Has a strong lower body, with very good hip width...Shows good straight-line speed and explosion off the snap and does a solid job of keeping his hands inside his frame to lock on and control the blockers... Displays the lower-leg drive to split double teams and the short-area burst to close on the pocket...When he hits the gaps with his pad level down and is very good at slipping off blocks to plug the rush lanes...When he stays low in his pads, he consistently gains leverage (4.35 20-yard shuttle), as he has the flexibility and change-of-direction agility to generate good acceleration in his short-area burst...Can wear down the blockers with his leg drive and combative nature, as he shoots the gaps with good explosion and is the type that plays until the whistle, combining strength and explosive hand punch...Can gain an advantage and shows suddenness getting to the gaps due to his savvy play and anticipation skills (see 2007 Ohio University, Clemson, Boston College and 2006 North Carolina, Southern Mississippi and Virginia games)...Disruptive force in the gaps, excelling at pushing the lead blocker back to clog the rushing lanes (held opponents to minus-13 yards rushing on 106 running plays)...Strong inside run stuffer who can make plays up and down the line due to his lateral movement...Knows how to get underneath to get a piece of the blocker's pads and is very effective stacking and controling in one-on-one situations...Won't stay blocked for long when he keeps his hands active and inside his frame...Has a very strong hand punch to shock and jolt and showed vast improvement keeping his hands inside his frame in 2006...Relies more on his strength than hand placement to defeat a block, but when he is able to generate quick hand technique, he has an effective arm crossover move as a bull rusher to push the pocket...Has a good feel for playing off blocks and reacts well to block pressure...Has that explosive short-area burst to clog the rush lanes, and when he keeps his hands active, he can grab, turn, push and control the offensive linemen...When he stays low in his pads and extends his arms, he is very effective...Has the quickness to take good angles, slant and make plays down the line...Strong inside run defender who might not show the lateral range to make plays in long pursuit, but is very efficient when asked to clog the lanes between the tackles...More of a pocket-pressure type than a pass rusher, as he plays in a system that relies on him providing containment rather than generate pressure, but once he clears the lane, he shows good urgency and the ability to take angles in attempts to close...Could surprise as a pass rusher, as he shows the quick initial step to get advantage and also get on the edge of a blocker...Has effective swim-and-rip ability and good suddenness off the ball and he is more of a power-oriented type than one who would finesse...Does a good job of keeping eye contact on the quarterback to provide containment (see 2007 Clemson, Florida State and Miami and 2006 Cincinnati, Southern Mississippi and Kent State games) and has developed efficient spin moves to counter and pull away from double-team activity...Plays with good instincts, awareness and recognition, as it is rare to see him bite on play action or misdirection...Has a good feel for blocks and when he plants his feet in the ground, even double teams struggle to contain him.



Negatives: Needs to tighten the softness in his midsection...Does a good job flowing to the ball along the line, but must be more alert to keeping his pad level down...When he gets too high and narrows his base, he is susceptible to low blocks...Does not always use his hands to protect his legs from cut blocks, but he has the strength needed to neutralize (does this equally well in one-on-one situations and double teams)... When he gets too tall in his pads, he struggles to shed and stack, causing him to lose some battles in attempts to play off those blocks...Needs to be more consistent shooting his hands, as he tends to lean and give a shoulder rather than extending to play off the blocks, causing him to get washed out some vs. the more active and bigger blockers...Has the timed speed to slip through the pile and apply pressure, but his adequate change-of-direction agility sees him labor at times when he has to get in gear when working in space..Must show better hip flexibility and lateral movement in his backside pursuit before he can be given more opportunities to rush the passer.

Compares To: DEWAYNE ROBERTSON-New York Jets...Both of these players rely on suddenness and brute strength to gain advantage. Powell is a dominant run stuffer who does a fine job of handling double-team blocks. He needs to improve his lateral range to be more effective when chasing down plays and must use his hands better to protect himself from low blocks. But when he locks on to a blocker, he will quickly shed. Where he excels is clogging the rush lanes, as when he keeps his pads down, lead blockers are soon to be pushed back through the hole. For a team using the "under tackle" position, Powell is the perfect fit.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 11:38 PM
Sounds like Powell might be an option as a 3-4 NT ....

DivineLegion
01-12-2009, 11:40 PM
I say go Raji then package our 2nd and Dallas' 4th (we do have their 4th right) trade up with the super bowl winners and snag Tyson Jackson. Move Marcus Thomas to End and have a front three of Jackson(6'4" 290) Thomas(6'3" 305) and BJ Raji (6'1" 330). Move Moss outside with Suggs (FA) so we have two 250 Linebackers on the edge. Trade Doom to a 4-3 team for a 2nd or 3rd and draft the Saftey out of Utah if hes still there. That takes care of our front 7 and our Saftey situation, seeing as Barrett continues to progress nicely.


DE: Jackson, Thomas, Ekuban, Crowder
DT: Raji, Robertson, Peterson
OLB: Suggs, Moss, Larsen, ???
ILB: Williams, Woodyard, Bailey(?), ???
CB:Bailey, Bell, Paymah
CB2: Bly, Williams
FS: Robert Johnson, Marlon McCree
SS: Josh Barrett, ???

That covers three draft picks and the ???s are areas of further concern.

telluride
01-12-2009, 11:43 PM
We still need a MLB (ILB) to quarterback the defense. No one currently on the roster is capable. Add to that a safety (or two), another CB (since Champ's days are numbered), a true NT, and another DT (since Thomas is really the only one we have), and we have a heavy burden on draft day. That's not to mention that we need a RB and a C, too.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-12-2009, 11:48 PM
Jesus, Champ is 30 and corners can play at a high level well into their late 30's. Even on this terrible defense Champ was playing phenominally until he got hurt. But yeah, his days are numbered.

Rocky Mountain Stampede
01-12-2009, 11:49 PM
Terrance Taylor, of Michigan, would be an ideal 3-4 NT. He'll probably be around in the 3rd round.

bpc
01-12-2009, 11:56 PM
I think Taylor Mays, Everette Brown or Gerald McCoy have to be the selection in round 1. If they aren't there, we'll have to look to trade down. No way we can take Raji right there at 12. He is a good player but is probably better suited for a 4-3 under technique.

We can land Terrance Taylor in the 4th or 5th round. He could be just as effective as a plugger in the 3-4 at half the price.

ZONA
01-12-2009, 11:57 PM
Lets be real... We are not close to a good 4-3 or a good 3-4, Tear it down and start all over.

Thank you.


I agree. This IS the time to make the change. If not now, then never. The defense was the most pathetic I have ever seen.

And one of the good things about having a 3-4 is that most teams don't run it and there are always those "tweener" guys in the draft teams just don't pick up because they are not conventional size for a certain spot in a 4-3.

I'm sure the new HC will use most of his drafts on defense as I think that is what Bowlen will probably ask for but I just hope we take some kinda of true NT in the draft in the first few rounds. I'd like to give some guys on the team a shot but it would be nice to have a true NT in camp. At the very least we need to pick up some beefcake later on.

Los Broncos
01-12-2009, 11:58 PM
Whos the number one DT coming out this year?

I read about it I think in the draft forum, guy is a complete animal, getting him seems like an instant fix there.

NFLBRONCO
01-13-2009, 12:00 AM
Lets be real... We are not close to a good 4-3 or a good 3-4, Tear it down and start all over.


Thank You I agree

NFLBRONCO
01-13-2009, 12:01 AM
Theres always the Trade Down Fairy.

As many needs as we have on D I could see Denver trading down whether we do time will tell.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 12:17 AM
Problem is at 12 there might not be a worthy DT. I disagree we have to take one high and also disagree that DT is the most important position in a 3-4.

IMO the most important position is the Jack backer who plays standing up, plays in a 3 point stance, drops into coverage and rushes the QB. You need talent, speed, and size at that spot. At DT imo we just need a huge body to clog things up. Who is worth top 15 pick at DT? Cody from Ala?

IMO Broncos should look for a big inside linebacker in the draft, try to sign a pass rushing outside linebacker like Suggs, sign one of the decent safety's in FA and also draft one safety from a deep pool in the draft. IMO safety has like 4-5 players that could be really good in NFL.

I don't see too many big clogging type DT worth our pick at 12.

Dempsey Dog
01-13-2009, 06:05 AM
BJ Raji from Boston College is an impressive specimin, but a bad citizen....

My wife is a BC alum so I have followed them pretty closely. Raji has been a beast this year and does not deserve the "bad seed" label.

Most of his issues were academic and in the past. I know he has gotten that label, but it is not totally fair. BC is an academic school (Boston College's 96% football graduation rate ranks second only to Navy (98%) in Division 1-A and 1-AA).

I am sure if Raji was somewhere in the SEC (just three SEC schools -- Vanderbilt, Florida and Georgia -- were cited among the top 80 universities in U.S. News & World Report's 2009 college rankings http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122843720586081461.html) he would not have had that problem.

Here is a little anecdote to substantiate who Raji is from SI:

Boston College's Raji eyeing ACC title after taking long road back
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/kevin_armstrong/10/17/bj.raji/index.html

WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP, N.J. -- Upon meeting B.J. Raji in 2007, Jeff Jagodzinski, who had left the Green Bay Packers to return to Boston College as head coach, sized up the NFL prospect and said his weight -- which was 350 pounds at the time -- was unacceptable. Wanting his top lineman to shed 25 pounds, Jagodzinski charged strength and conditioning coach Jason Loscalzo helping Raji reach that goal. When the 6-foot-1 defensive tackle downsized to 330, Jagodzinski had him wear a 12-pound vest during a summer workout. "I thought I was fine for this level," Raji says, "he put things in perspective."

Ready for a run at the professional ranks last season, Raji -- who leads BC with four sacks this year -- never got out of the blocks. During the final days of training camp in August, Raji was informed that he may not be eligible for the opener. Though an associate dean in the college of arts and sciences had assured Raji that he needed to take two courses over the summer to fulfill the NCAA's "satisfactory progress" rule, the truth was that he needed three. Just before going on the bus to the local hotel where the team stays the night before home games, Jagodzinski called Raji into his office and informed him that he could not play.

"I guess after the prayer in the locker room would have been the only worse timing to find out," BC defensive coordinator Frank Spaziani says. "It was pretty devastating for the guys."

Ruled ineligible for the season, he could still practice on the scout team. Word spread quickly that Raji, masquerading as the opposition, was giving the first-team offensive linemen fits, but his gamedays were different. For the opener, he stood as a fan in Alumni Stadium, but thereafter, unable to handle the atmosphere of waiting, he watched each game, both home and away, on television. While the team started 8-0, Raji was in the weight room by six o'clock on Friday and Saturday mornings, lifting with fellow redshirts, injured players and walk-ons. "All I wanted was to play on Saturdays," Raji says. "I'd complete all of the regular workouts and then have to do extra. It hurt not to be out there."

The redshirt look was en vogue in Raji's dorm room. Brian Toal, a starting linebacker who grew up 10 minutes away from Raji in the white-collar town of Wyckoff, N.J., had undergone surgery on his right shoulder the previous winter and was out for the season. Playing behind Raji, Toal, who entered BC as a more highly-touted recruit than Raji in the same freshman class, had benefited from the double teams the wide-bodied tackle attracted. Now they were left to motivate each other. "We should have had an armed guard protecting their room like a vault," says Spaziani, whose defense keyed an appearance in the ACC title game. "Those were two high-priced investments in there."

Bill McGovern, BC's linebacker coach who spearheaded Toal and Raji's recruitments, identified Raji's blue-chip potential before his stock took off. As a freshman and sophomore at Westwood (N.J.) Regional High, Raji played basketball, but one day a coach told him that his prospects were limited for playing at the college level. "I guess reality struck when I stopped growing," Raji says. "I wasn't going to be Allen Iverson."

The son of two Pentecostal pastors, Raji concentrated on football. As a freshman, Westwood won the state title, and, in working with J.T. Turner, a former New York Giant who assisted with the linemen, Raji developed and received offers from Rutgers, Wisconsin and BC. With a solid verbal commitment intact, McGovern asked to drop by the Raji house the week before national Signing Day to go over the letter of intent in February 2004. Calling ahead, he tried first for a Tuesday appointment, but the mother said the family would be hosting other folks that day. McGovern then tried for Wednesday. Again, the mother said there would be visitors. Growing suspicious of other suitors making a last-minute push through the family's door, McGovern, asked, if they didn't mind telling, who was coming in.

"Nike on Tuesday, Adidas on Wednesday and Converse on Thursday," the mother said. Not in line to see B.J., foot soldiers from the shoe companies wanted to land his younger brother Corey, who is now a 6-foot-6, 214-pound sophomore forward in BC's basketball program, for their AAU team. "There's always people coming and going in our house," the mother says.

When informed of his ineligibility last August, the older brother came across his sibling outside the school's athletic complex, and started to cry. Later, when he told his mother what happened in the nearby hotel parking lot, he asked, "Why are they doing this to me?"

Standing nearby, the father, who migrated from Nigeria and is studying for a doctorate in theology and divinity, comforted his son. "From now on we are going to call you Joseph," the father said, referencing a biblical character. "He went through struggles only to find a blessing in the end."

Last Saturday, Raji, whose first name, Busari, is Nigerian for bliss, witnessed another setback. Toal, who had come back in the best shape of his career, broke his leg on a first quarter play where the former roommates combined for a tackle against Virginia Tech. A day later, it was announced that the fifth-year linebacker's season was over.

Staring down a Toal-less road, Raji, who entertained the idea of going pro last season, still thinks the Eagles are ready for another run at the ACC title. "We're three points from being undefeated," says Raji, who will lead BC at North Carolina on Saturday. "The title game in Tampa's the end of the line right now."

WolfpackGuy
01-13-2009, 06:55 AM
I thought the Jets basically gave away Robertson because he didn't fit their 3-4 scheme?
Anyway, the defense is more than a NT away from being competent.

Popcorn Sutton
01-13-2009, 07:01 AM
BJ Raji from Boston College is an impressive specimin, but a bad citizen....

And Marcus Thomas would be an excellent fit at 3-4 DE, as would Kenny Peterson. Maybe Crowder, too.

I agree Buff... Marcus is quite nimble for a man of his size and could be taught to do good things as a 3-4 DE.

socalorado
01-13-2009, 07:17 AM
Screw it, grab a pair of hogs on day two.

I still want my shiny new linebacker ****ers.

QFT! :thumbs:

oubronco
01-13-2009, 07:20 AM
Problem is at 12 there might not be a worthy DT. I disagree we have to take one high and also disagree that DT is the most important position in a 3-4.

IMO the most important position is the Jack backer who plays standing up, plays in a 3 point stance, drops into coverage and rushes the QB. You need talent, speed, and size at that spot. At DT imo we just need a huge body to clog things up. Who is worth top 15 pick at DT? Cody from Ala?

IMO Broncos should look for a big inside linebacker in the draft, try to sign a pass rushing outside linebacker like Suggs, sign one of the decent safety's in FA and also draft one safety from a deep pool in the draft. IMO safety has like 4-5 players that could be really good in NFL.

I don't see too many big clogging type DT worth our pick at 12.

would Brandon Spikes excell in this role?

socalorado
01-13-2009, 07:24 AM
My wife is a BC alum so I have followed them pretty closely. Raji has been a beast this year and does not deserve the "bad seed" label.

Most of his issues were academic and in the past. I know he has gotten that label, but it is not totally fair. BC is an academic school (Boston College's 96% football graduation rate ranks second only to Navy (98%) in Division 1-A and 1-AA).

I am sure if Raji was somewhere in the SEC (just three SEC schools -- Vanderbilt, Florida and Georgia -- were cited among the top 80 universities in U.S. News & World Report's 2009 college rankings http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122843720586081461.html) he would not have had that problem.

Here is a little anecdote to substantiate who Raji is from SI:

Boston College's Raji eyeing ACC title after taking long road back
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/kevin_armstrong/10/17/bj.raji/index.html

WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP, N.J. -- Upon meeting B.J. Raji in 2007, Jeff Jagodzinski, who had left the Green Bay Packers to return to Boston College as head coach, sized up the NFL prospect and said his weight -- which was 350 pounds at the time -- was unacceptable. Wanting his top lineman to shed 25 pounds, Jagodzinski charged strength and conditioning coach Jason Loscalzo helping Raji reach that goal. When the 6-foot-1 defensive tackle downsized to 330, Jagodzinski had him wear a 12-pound vest during a summer workout. "I thought I was fine for this level," Raji says, "he put things in perspective."

Ready for a run at the professional ranks last season, Raji -- who leads BC with four sacks this year -- never got out of the blocks. During the final days of training camp in August, Raji was informed that he may not be eligible for the opener. Though an associate dean in the college of arts and sciences had assured Raji that he needed to take two courses over the summer to fulfill the NCAA's "satisfactory progress" rule, the truth was that he needed three. Just before going on the bus to the local hotel where the team stays the night before home games, Jagodzinski called Raji into his office and informed him that he could not play.

"I guess after the prayer in the locker room would have been the only worse timing to find out," BC defensive coordinator Frank Spaziani says. "It was pretty devastating for the guys."

Ruled ineligible for the season, he could still practice on the scout team. Word spread quickly that Raji, masquerading as the opposition, was giving the first-team offensive linemen fits, but his gamedays were different. For the opener, he stood as a fan in Alumni Stadium, but thereafter, unable to handle the atmosphere of waiting, he watched each game, both home and away, on television. While the team started 8-0, Raji was in the weight room by six o'clock on Friday and Saturday mornings, lifting with fellow redshirts, injured players and walk-ons. "All I wanted was to play on Saturdays," Raji says. "I'd complete all of the regular workouts and then have to do extra. It hurt not to be out there."

The redshirt look was en vogue in Raji's dorm room. Brian Toal, a starting linebacker who grew up 10 minutes away from Raji in the white-collar town of Wyckoff, N.J., had undergone surgery on his right shoulder the previous winter and was out for the season. Playing behind Raji, Toal, who entered BC as a more highly-touted recruit than Raji in the same freshman class, had benefited from the double teams the wide-bodied tackle attracted. Now they were left to motivate each other. "We should have had an armed guard protecting their room like a vault," says Spaziani, whose defense keyed an appearance in the ACC title game. "Those were two high-priced investments in there."

Bill McGovern, BC's linebacker coach who spearheaded Toal and Raji's recruitments, identified Raji's blue-chip potential before his stock took off. As a freshman and sophomore at Westwood (N.J.) Regional High, Raji played basketball, but one day a coach told him that his prospects were limited for playing at the college level. "I guess reality struck when I stopped growing," Raji says. "I wasn't going to be Allen Iverson."

The son of two Pentecostal pastors, Raji concentrated on football. As a freshman, Westwood won the state title, and, in working with J.T. Turner, a former New York Giant who assisted with the linemen, Raji developed and received offers from Rutgers, Wisconsin and BC. With a solid verbal commitment intact, McGovern asked to drop by the Raji house the week before national Signing Day to go over the letter of intent in February 2004. Calling ahead, he tried first for a Tuesday appointment, but the mother said the family would be hosting other folks that day. McGovern then tried for Wednesday. Again, the mother said there would be visitors. Growing suspicious of other suitors making a last-minute push through the family's door, McGovern, asked, if they didn't mind telling, who was coming in.

"Nike on Tuesday, Adidas on Wednesday and Converse on Thursday," the mother said. Not in line to see B.J., foot soldiers from the shoe companies wanted to land his younger brother Corey, who is now a 6-foot-6, 214-pound sophomore forward in BC's basketball program, for their AAU team. "There's always people coming and going in our house," the mother says.

When informed of his ineligibility last August, the older brother came across his sibling outside the school's athletic complex, and started to cry. Later, when he told his mother what happened in the nearby hotel parking lot, he asked, "Why are they doing this to me?"

Standing nearby, the father, who migrated from Nigeria and is studying for a doctorate in theology and divinity, comforted his son. "From now on we are going to call you Joseph," the father said, referencing a biblical character. "He went through struggles only to find a blessing in the end."

Last Saturday, Raji, whose first name, Busari, is Nigerian for bliss, witnessed another setback. Toal, who had come back in the best shape of his career, broke his leg on a first quarter play where the former roommates combined for a tackle against Virginia Tech. A day later, it was announced that the fifth-year linebacker's season was over.

Staring down a Toal-less road, Raji, who entertained the idea of going pro last season, still thinks the Eagles are ready for another run at the ACC title. "We're three points from being undefeated," says Raji, who will lead BC at North Carolina on Saturday. "The title game in Tampa's the end of the line right now."

Ron Brace, Boston College
Height: 6-3. Weight: 330.
Projected 40 Time: 5.25.
Projected Round (2009): 2-3.
1/10/09: The monstrous Ron Brace collected 10 TFL and 2.5 sacks in 2008. He'll be highly sought after toward the end of Day 1, as quality nose tackles are hard to come by.

5/9/08: Took over for B.J. Raji as Boston College's mammoth nose tackle. Ron Brace started seven games and recorded 7.5 tackles for loss and 2.5 sacks, earning an All-ACC honorable mention.

socalorado
01-13-2009, 07:26 AM
would Brandon Spikes excell in this role?

REY REY would be better, but Spikes is soo athletic that he would work.
Need Suggs though.

oubronco
01-13-2009, 07:28 AM
How about a NT in 1st would Spikes be there in the 2nd and then try to get Suggs?

Dedhed
01-13-2009, 07:54 AM
Lets be real... We are not close to a good 4-3 or a good 3-4, Tear it down and start all over.

Exactly. The list of needs to convert to a 3-4 is not any longer than the list of needs to morph into an effective 4-3.

Blow it up, and trust the new coaching staff to put in the system that they prefer to run.

Drek
01-13-2009, 08:15 AM
How about a NT in 1st would Spikes be there in the 2nd and then try to get Suggs?

Has Spikes even declared yet? He's only a junior, if he holds off for next year he could be looking at a top 15 selection.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 08:17 AM
would Brandon Spikes excell in this role?

Honestly I have only watched him play twice and once was this last bowl game. He's very active and a good player but I see him more an outside linebacker in a 4-3 on the weakside. He's 240 and would be taking on big olineman.

If Broncos looking 3-4 I don't see Spikes as on there board for the 12th pick.

Maybe though he is a great looking football player.

Curry at close to 250 IMO would be the better 3-4 linebacker.

cutthemdown
01-13-2009, 08:19 AM
Also Maualuga from USC at 260 would be ideal inside in a 3-4. IMO a perfect 3-4 inside linebacker.

McDman
01-13-2009, 08:20 AM
Here you go........

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/broncosfreaks/3-4-defense.png

With the recent success of AFC playoff teams such as the New England Patriots, the Pittsburgh Steelers, and the San Diego Chargers, the 3-4 D has come back in style. In 2005, 5 NFL teams (the Broncos, Browns, Cowboys, Dolphins, and Niners) may switch to the 3-4 as their base defense, bringing the total to 10 teams (including the Chargers, Patriots, Raiders, Steelers, and Texans) who favor the system. So what is the 3-4 D? This article discusses:

How the 3-4 defense differs from the 4-3 defense
What are the personnel requirements for the 3-4 defense
What are the advantages of the 3-4 defense

How the 3-4 defense differs from the 4-3 defense

The 4-3 D has the following characteristics:

There are 4 defensive lineman (DL) and 3 linebackers (LBs)
On plays where a LB or DB does not blitz, the pass rush is generated by the defensive linemen. The DEs in particular must be able to get pressure on the QB. The best/fastest pass rushing DE typically plays at RDE and is referred to as the "rush end". The LDE is referred to as the "base end" and must be solid against the run, because teams often run strong-side, which is the side where the TE is, and the TE often lines up next to the RT. The DEs play from a 3-point stance, so they have a hand on the ground
The SLB (strong-side LB) matches up against the TE. SLBs typically range from 240-250 and are on the taller side for a LB. The MLB (middle LB) plays the middle of the field and provides run support. MLBs typically range from 240-255, although some teams get away with an undersized MLB (e.g. the Jets' Jonathan Vilma) by protecting him with beefy DTs. The WLB (weak-side LB) often plays in space, has the freedom to flow to the ball, and must have good range. WLBs are often undersized compared to the other LBs.

The 3-4 D has the following characteristics:

There are 3 defensive lineman (DL) and 4 linebackers (LBs)
The primary function of the DL is to protect the LBs and play the run. Each defensive lineman is responsible for 2 gaps
The pass rush is generated by the 3-4 OLBs. On almost every play, 1 of the OLBs will rush the QB. The OLBs play from a 2-point stance, so they're standing up



What are the personnel requirements for the 3-4 defense

The front 7 players in the 3-4 D are significantly different from their counterparts in the 4-3. In a nutshell, the DL in the 3-4 are bigger than the DL in the 4-3. The 3-4 OLBs are bigger than 4-3 OLBs because they have to match up against OTs.

3-4 NT is the toughest position to fill. The NT is head-up on the OC and is responsible for defending both A gaps in the running game. He faces constant double-teams and takes a pounding. He must have size, mental and physical toughness, stamina, durability, lateral quickness, and good technique in terms of playing with leverage. If the NT can not hold his ground, the defense is very vulnerable to runs between the tackles. The prototypical 3-4 NT is the Raiders' Ted Washington, who is a massive 6-5 365. Washington was the key to the Patriots win over the Panthers in the 2004 Super Bowl. Stephen Davis ran for a meager 19 yards on his first 9 carries, because Washington effectively stuffed the middle of the line. Other quality NTs include the Steelers' Casey Hampton (6-1 320) and the Chargers' Jamal Williams (6-2 348)

3-4 OLBs are the playmakers of the D. They get the glory of picking up sacks on the QB. They must have strong pass rush skills and be able to drop into coverage. If the 3-4 OLBs are unable to consistently apply pressure on the QB, the D is very vulnerable in the passing game. They tend to weigh around 245-270, and many are former 4-3 DE/OLB "tweeners". Many 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the ability to play in space. The more agile 4-3 RDEs, such as the Jets' John Abraham (6-4 256), are able to play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Many 4-3 OLBs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the pass rush skills and the ability to go toe-to-toe with an OT. Examples of solid 3-4 OLBs are the Patriots' Willie McGinest (6-5 270) and the Steelers' Joey Porter (6-2 248)

3-4 DEs tend to weigh around 290-310, and many are former 4-3 DT/DE "tweeners". They must be able to play the run well. The 3-4 DE is responsible for the B and C gaps in the running game and lines up in the 5-technique position, so he is head-up on the OT. It's tough for a 3-4 DE to pick up as many sacks as a 4-3 DE, because a 3-4 DE doesn't have the freedom to go willy nilly upfield. He has to protect the LBs in order for the 3-4 to work. Panthers' 4-3 DE Julius Peppers said that he didn't like playing 3-4 DE, because he felt like he was essentially a DT. Unlike Peppers (6-6 290), most 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 DE, because they lack the size and ability to hold up against the run. Examples of solid 3-4 DEs are the Patriots' Richard Seymour (6-6 310), the Steelers' Aaron Smith (6-5 300), and the Raiders' Bobby Hamilton (6-5 285)

3-4 ILBs must be stout in run support. Because there are only 3 DL to match up against 5 OL, they must be able to stack and shed an unblocked offensive lineman in the running game. How hard is it to play 3-4 ILB? Check out this telling quote by All-Pro Ray Lewis, who is glad to be finished playing 3-4 ILB (the Ravens are switching from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and 46 for the 2005 season):

"We're in the 46 defense now, and finally, finally again, I get to play football," said Lewis. "My job is not to take on offensive linemen, but to make running backs not want to play against me"

Examples of solid 3-4 ILBs are the former Ravens' Ed Hartwell (6-1 250) and the Raiders' Danny Clark (6-2 245)

What are the advantages of the 3-4 defense

The offense does not know which of the 2 OLBs is going to rush the QB, as both of the OLBs are in a 2-point stance. This creates the following advantages:

It's harder for the offensive linemen to correctly determine their blocking assignments before the snap and execute
It puts more mental pressure on the QB. E.g. the Patriots did a masterful job in disguising their D against 2004 MVP Peyton Manning in the 2005 playoffs. Manning came unglued mentally, and his frustration seemed to affect his performance.

Thanks a lot, that really helps.

oubronco
01-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Honestly I have only watched him play twice and once was this last bowl game. He's very active and a good player but I see him more an outside linebacker in a 4-3 on the weakside. He's 240 and would be taking on big olineman.

If Broncos looking 3-4 I don't see Spikes as on there board for the 12th pick.

Maybe though he is a great looking football player.

Curry at close to 250 IMO would be the better 3-4 linebacker.

well then would Curry be around and if he is would NT be the better pick?

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 08:29 AM
I want to hear from those that don't think BJ Raji is worth the 12 pick. If you are in favor of Brace in round two, fine. I can understand that. He would be a nice value pick there. I don't need to hear from you.

I am looking for a response from those that say he's not worth 12, but would be worth it in a trade-down to the 15-20th pick.

Mel Kiper has him ranked as the #1 DT in the draft and the #8 senior overall. He very well might not even make it to #12, so why is it such a reach? Especially given that it is a position of need.

Rock Chalk
01-13-2009, 08:31 AM
Can someone please explain the skill sets needed for each position in a 3-4 as opposed to a 4-3.

NT: Need a big, strong guy to play in the middle of the "3" in a "3-4". Currently no one on our roster is big or strong enough on the defensive side of the ball to play the position effectively. Some have said Robertson or Thomas or Peterson might be able to do it, but its best to get a guy that knows how to play the position.

DE: DEs in a 3-4 need to be closer to 4-3 DTs, but they also need to be fast. Thomas and/or Peterson could probably play the 3-4 DE position fairly well.

ILB: ILBs in the 3-4 both need to be true MLBs in a 4-3. That is, bigger than anyone we currently have at MLB. We need 2 of those guys. Al Wilson probably couldnt have played ILB well at the 3-4. They need to be able to blitz effectively as well because in the 3-4 your blitz can come from any one of the 4 linebackers so they have to be able to know HOW to blitz well.

OLB: OLBs in the 3-4 need to be jack of all trades. Blitz, pass rush, shed blockers, cover. They, IMO are the hardest position to fill because the skill set for this player has to be high. They have to be big enough to shoot gaps and shed blockers for the blitz rush, fast enough to cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield, and smart enough to know when to do what.

Safeties and CBs play the same position and have generally the same responsibilities as they do in the 4-3.

Drek
01-13-2009, 08:42 AM
well then would Curry be around and if he is would NT be the better pick?

There is no way that Curry will fall to #12, but if for some freakish miracle he did, there isn't a better player in this draft class for our needs.

Rock Chalk
01-13-2009, 08:46 AM
There is no way that Curry will fall to #12, but if for some freakish miracle he did, there isn't a better player in this draft class for our needs.

We could package DJ and our 12th and move up. DJ doesnt really fit into a 3-4 and McDaniels already stated he wanted smart players so that means DJ is on his way out :) (SoCal will be furious at me)

Im just thinking here, the move to a 3-4 changes a lot of things. Had we stayed in a 4-3 I dont think we get rid of DJ but now....it should be considered.

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 08:50 AM
NT: Need a big, strong guy to play in the middle of the "3" in a "3-4". Currently no one on our roster is big or strong enough on the defensive side of the ball to play the position effectively. Some have said Robertson or Thomas or Peterson might be able to do it, but its best to get a guy that knows how to play the position.

DE: DEs in a 3-4 need to be closer to 4-3 DTs, but they also need to be fast. Thomas and/or Peterson could probably play the 3-4 DE position fairly well.

ILB: ILBs in the 3-4 both need to be true MLBs in a 4-3. That is, bigger than anyone we currently have at MLB. We need 2 of those guys. Al Wilson probably couldnt have played ILB well at the 3-4. They need to be able to blitz effectively as well because in the 3-4 your blitz can come from any one of the 4 linebackers so they have to be able to know HOW to blitz well.

OLB: OLBs in the 3-4 need to be jack of all trades. Blitz, pass rush, shed blockers, cover. They, IMO are the hardest position to fill because the skill set for this player has to be high. They have to be big enough to shoot gaps and shed blockers for the blitz rush, fast enough to cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield, and smart enough to know when to do what.

Safeties and CBs play the same position and have generally the same responsibilities as they do in the 4-3.

I think if Powell healed up well enough from the achilles tendon injury he could fill the need for a NT, at least for a season, and then target Terrence Cody next year (6'5", 365 Yikes!). Powell took on a lot of double teams at VTech and was very successful at holding his ground. Then bring in a guy like Cushing from USC who is slightly bigger and a lot smarter than Rey. He could be your field general at ILB. I think that trying to solve all the problems of this D in one off-season is highly unrealistic. If we can move up ten spots from 28th in the first season I'd be more than happy with it.

lex
01-13-2009, 08:51 AM
I want to hear from those that don't think BJ Raji is worth the 12 pick. If you are in favor of Brace in round two, fine. I can understand that. He would be a nice value pick there. I don't need to hear from you.

I am looking for a response from those that say he's not worth 12, but would be worth it in a trade-down to the 15-20th pick.

Mel Kiper has him ranked as the #1 DT in the draft and the #8 senior overall. He very well might not even make it to #12, so why is it such a reach? Especially given that it is a position of need.

I think they may take him at 12 if they feel the difference between he and Brace or Taylor, in terms of what they expect from that spot, is that significant. If theyre ok with a guy who can just tie up blockers and think Brace or someone else can do that, they may hold off on NT. If they put a premium on the push that Raji might generate, then they could take him. We dont even know who the DC is yet, it seems like it changes. If you wanted to get a thumper like Maualuga and then someone to tie up blocks, like Brace or Taylor, thats another option. But its not only about that, its also about value. At the same time you dont want to get too cute and lose a guy that you were putting a premium on.

When these positions are slotted, they often have a way of being kind of unitized. The more skill sets they have that benefit all teams, they higher you see them slotted. But other teams may value other skillsets that bump them up or down.

TheChamp24
01-13-2009, 08:57 AM
I want to hear from those that don't think BJ Raji is worth the 12 pick. If you are in favor of Brace in round two, fine. I can understand that. He would be a nice value pick there. I don't need to hear from you.

I am looking for a response from those that say he's not worth 12, but would be worth it in a trade-down to the 15-20th pick.

Mel Kiper has him ranked as the #1 DT in the draft and the #8 senior overall. He very well might not even make it to #12, so why is it such a reach? Especially given that it is a position of need.

Because I don't like drafting DL in the 1st. I've seen more busts than booms on the DL.
I remember how many people wanted Bunkley a few years back, and for how high he was picked, he really hasn't done anything in the 3 years he has played. Its too early to judge Okoye, but for the 10th pick in the draft, he really didn't do a whole lot last year.
I think trading down would allow us to get more picks, and select more players for our system. Allow us to draft a DL, LB and S in the first 2 rounds than just 2 of the above.

HooptyHoops
01-13-2009, 09:42 AM
I think Taylor Mays, Everette Brown or Gerald McCoy have to be the selection in round 1. If they aren't there, we'll have to look to trade down. No way we can take Raji right there at 12. He is a good player but is probably better suited for a 4-3 under technique.

We can land Terrance Taylor in the 4th or 5th round. He could be just as effective as a plugger in the 3-4 at half the price.

Mays and Mccoy have stated that they are staying in school for another year...so, it limits us with the 12th pick and will limit quality players, as both of those players had a legit shot at being drafted before 12...and Spikes is whispering that he is going to stay in school....we might be reaching for a player at #12...yuck!!

TonyR
01-13-2009, 09:55 AM
Because I don't like drafting DL in the 1st. I've seen more busts than booms on the DL.
I remember how many people wanted Bunkley a few years back, and for how high he was picked, he really hasn't done anything in the 3 years he has played.

I don't disagree with your comments overall but Bunkley is at least part of the reason why the Eagles D has been so good the last several weeks. They are really shutting down the run and Bunkley starts on that D-line.

Drek
01-13-2009, 09:55 AM
We could package DJ and our 12th and move up. DJ doesnt really fit into a 3-4 and McDaniels already stated he wanted smart players so that means DJ is on his way out :) (SoCal will be furious at me)

Im just thinking here, the move to a 3-4 changes a lot of things. Had we stayed in a 4-3 I dont think we get rid of DJ but now....it should be considered.
To what, 11th?

Trading DJ isn't really an option. It'd cost us probably somewhere between a 3rd to a half of all our cap room for the season and the best we'd probably be looking at in return would be a late second or early 3rd. It won't jump us into the top 5 or 6 like we'd need to in order to grab Curry.

socalorado
01-13-2009, 09:59 AM
To what, 11th?

Trading DJ isn't really an option. It'd cost us probably somewhere between a 3rd to a half of all our cap room for the season and the best we'd probably be looking at in return would be a late second or early 3rd. It won't jump us into the top 5 or 6 like we'd need to in order to grab Curry.

Changing gears here.
Hypothetical
So if Curry, REY REY and Spikes are gone by #12, Raji is still there, Wells is gone, Moreno and Greene are still there,(for all you RB in the 1st posters) who should DEN go after at this point?
Lets say in FA DEN has aquired both Suggs and Atogwe.

Smiling Assassin27
01-13-2009, 10:03 AM
BJ Raji?

We have a winner. Since Terrence Cody's staying in school, this guy is probably the pick of the litter.

TheReverend
01-13-2009, 10:03 AM
I don't disagree with your comments overall but Bunkley is at least part of the reason why the Eagles D has been so good the last several weeks. They are really shutting down the run and Bunkley starts on that D-line.

Dude... Bunkley's been a dud until this season, where he's played mildly above average. Patterson has been significantly better. Last week was one of Bunkley's first "good" games.

Mountain Bronco
01-13-2009, 10:12 AM
We don't need to go from the Enver Broncos of 2008 to the Ravens D in one year. With our offense we simply need to be respectable middle of the pack defense that improves each year and grabs to turnovers. Draft a mamouth in the middle rounds, but don't reach on a 1st round pick. Draft a LB or a Safety in round 1 with the other to follow in Round 2.

lex
01-13-2009, 10:15 AM
We don't need to go from the Enver Broncos of 2008 to the Ravens D in one year. With our offense we simply need to be respectable middle of the pack defense that improves each year and grabs to turnovers. Draft a mamouth in the middle rounds, but don't reach on a 1st round pick. Draft a LB or a Safety in round 1 with the other to follow in Round 2.

What safety?

mr007
01-13-2009, 10:39 AM
We could package DJ and our 12th and move up. DJ doesnt really fit into a 3-4 and McDaniels already stated he wanted smart players so that means DJ is on his way out :) (SoCal will be furious at me)

Im just thinking here, the move to a 3-4 changes a lot of things. Had we stayed in a 4-3 I dont think we get rid of DJ but now....it should be considered.

I think DJ will actually play better in a 3-4 than the 4-3 as the ILB. I honestly think it's going to take 2 years to shore up our defense, with moderate improvement next year. Here's what I would be looking at for D:

Line: - Robertson at the NT rotating with Powell. I don't think it's a good idea to go for Haynesworth because of character issues and the tendency of some dlineman to fall off once they receive that big contract. Haynesworth didn't really start becoming a beast and playing his ass off until his contract year. I think NT is something we should be addressing next year in the draft or FO and possibly check on a value pick in rounds 3-5. One of the DEs should definitely be Thomas and I have a ? at the 2nd end.

Dumervil/Moss: - Put one of em on the trade block, preferably Elvis since he'll net us something a bit better than Moss.

Weakside LB: - I'd see what WW can do and look at throwing Moss into this position as well. If Moss can develop, great, if not I think he's pretty close to being gone. Ideally, pick up Suggs as a FA but definitely not counting it.

ILB: - DJ no question

MLB: - Our first round pick

SLB: - Boss played pretty well while he was healthy. He's definitely injury prone, but I say give him one more chance and pick up someone in the 3rd round to compete.

Corners: - We definitely need to start looking here but that's not our most pressing need and we can look late round or possibly next year.

Safety: - Our 2nd biggest need this year IMO and I'd spend our 2nd and possibly 3rd round picks here on the best option available.

Drek
01-13-2009, 11:01 AM
Changing gears here.
Hypothetical
So if Curry, REY REY and Spikes are gone by #12, Raji is still there, Wells is gone, Moreno and Greene are still there,(for all you RB in the 1st posters) who should DEN go after at this point?
Lets say in FA DEN has aquired both Suggs and Atogwe.

I'd take Moreno.

Raji has a lot of window shopping appeal, but so does a $5000 Pioneer Plasma.

I'm going to enjoy watching football just about as much with the $3000 Bravia instead, and I got $2000 left over to work with.

I'd pass on Raji at #12 and instead make sure to hit up someone like Brace with #48.

Moreno has been compared as a rich man's Tiki Barber. Thats pretty damn high praise if you ask me, and I think his game will team with Hillis amazingly well and also play up great in McDaniels' offense. He'd be the missing piece on offense without question.

socalorado
01-13-2009, 11:07 AM
I'd take Moreno.

Raji has a lot of window shopping appeal, but so does a $5000 Pioneer Plasma.

I'm going to enjoy watching football just about as much with the $3000 Bravia instead, and I got $2000 left over to work with.

I'd pass on Raji at #12 and instead make sure to hit up someone like Brace with #48.

Moreno has been compared as a rich man's Tiki Barber. Thats pretty damn high praise if you ask me, and I think his game will team with Hillis amazingly well and also play up great in McDaniels' offense. He'd be the missing piece on offense without question.

Interesting.
I like the idea of trading back with PHIL at that point.
DEN may need to trade back prior to the draft, simply because it looks the way my hypothetical looks. I think DEN would take a hard look at Cushing too.

lex
01-13-2009, 11:30 AM
I'd take Moreno.

Raji has a lot of window shopping appeal, but so does a $5000 Pioneer Plasma.

I'm going to enjoy watching football just about as much with the $3000 Bravia instead, and I got $2000 left over to work with.

I'd pass on Raji at #12 and instead make sure to hit up someone like Brace with #48.

Moreno has been compared as a rich man's Tiki Barber. Thats pretty damn high praise if you ask me, and I think his game will team with Hillis amazingly well and also play up great in McDaniels' offense. He'd be the missing piece on offense without question.

By whom? You wouldnt be quoting yourself would you?

Drek
01-13-2009, 11:48 AM
By whom? You wouldnt be quoting yourself would you?

If I recall it was Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan. Don't believe it was their observation but one they got from an NFL scout, one of them mentioned it, they both basically agreed he had that kind of game.

I should clarify though, by saying "rich man's Tiki Barber" I don't so much mean he's Tiki Barber with slightly better skills (though he may be faster) but instead that he 1. costs a top 15 pick (Tiki was an early 2nd) and 2. should hopefully not take a few years of part time work to become an impact player.

BroncoBuff
01-13-2009, 11:55 AM
I just can't believe anybody can look at this roster and recommend using the #12 pick on offense hmmm...

oubronco
01-13-2009, 12:37 PM
I just can't believe anybody can look at this roster and recommend using the #12 pick on offense hmmm...

no doubt

Drek
01-13-2009, 01:08 PM
I just can't believe anybody can look at this roster and recommend using the #12 pick on offense hmmm...

We can fill roster spots with free agency as well.

There are mid-level FAs available, and every year a handful of them break out and become top players.

Its more important that we get a difference maker at #12 than anything else. Is BJ Raji, at NT, a bigger difference maker than Brace? Thats a tough sell.

But someone like Moreno or Wells at #12 versus a James Davis or the like in the 2nd or 3rd? Those top two guys are a different tier of value entirely.

We hopefully aren't going to be picking in the top 15 again for a while, better to strike while the iron is hot and get a truly elite, top 10 type of talent instead of settling for the kind of talent we can get in the late teens/early 20's in other years just to fill a need.

Is it ideal that we take Moreno? Hell no. I'd probably put our targets list as Curry, Maybin, Maualuga, Orakpo, Jenkins, Wells/Moreno, Raji, Vontae Davis. Something like that. Offense isn't the ideal way to go, but you take what you can get.

AbileneBroncoFan
01-13-2009, 01:18 PM
I'd take Moreno.

Raji has a lot of window shopping appeal, but so does a $5000 Pioneer Plasma.

I'm going to enjoy watching football just about as much with the $3000 Bravia instead, and I got $2000 left over to work with.

I'd pass on Raji at #12 and instead make sure to hit up someone like Brace with #48.

Moreno has been compared as a rich man's Tiki Barber. Thats pretty damn high praise if you ask me, and I think his game will team with Hillis amazingly well and also play up great in McDaniels' offense. He'd be the missing piece on offense without question.


Couldn't have said it better myself. We cannot afford to reach for a guy at 12. When you have a pick that high, you must make it count. If we cannot trade down and someone doesn't really jumpout at the combine, we need to take the guy that we KNOW will be a star for us. Knowshon with our offense would be on the fast track to OROY. And he would be a definite upgrade over any of the jokers that carried the ball for us last year. Hillis fans, don't be mad--talent wise it's like comparing Hillis to Clinton Portis. Knowshon has much quicker acceleration, much better moves, and will be a threat on swing passes to take it all the way, regardless of down or distance. I like Hillis getting 10 carries a game, but he is not going to be an elite back in the league. Moreno can be. I still favor trading down and acquiring draft picks, but a salivate with the thought of our offense + Moreno. We would be set for the next ten years at pretty much every position but center and left guard, and it's not like we couldn't fill those spots in.

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 01:20 PM
Frankly, I would prefer to make do with what we've got (Powell, Thomas, Peterson) this season (which is probably going to be a killer anyway) and then target Cody (who looks like another Ted Washington) next season.

Inkana7
01-13-2009, 01:22 PM
Moreno isn't a top 15 back.

AbileneBroncoFan
01-13-2009, 01:33 PM
Moreno isn't a top 15 back.

I'd rather have him than Cupcake Wells who's projected top 10. Chris Johnson didn't grade out as top 10 last year. How about now?

Inkana7
01-13-2009, 01:38 PM
I'd rather have him than Cupcake Wells who's projected top 10. Chris Johnson didn't grade out as top 10 last year. How about now?

That's exactly my point. An impact back can be drafted after the first round. Matt Forte was a 3rd Rounder. I think Steve Slaton was a 5th Rounder.

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself. We cannot afford to reach for a guy at 12. When you have a pick that high, you must make it count.

Taking any RB at 12 any year is a bigger "reach" than taking the best DT in the draft by far, the #8 ranked senior in the draft by everyone's favorite draft guru: Mike Mayock.

What I keep reading is fear. Fear of the infamous "first round DT bust" factor. Suck it up already. And study a dictionary (not just you, Abilene). Let's go slowly this time.....a reach is taking someone at 12 that would still be there in round two. A reach is NOT taking someone who simply plays a position that seems to bust a lot in round one.

A risk? Sure (but what pick isn't).
A reach? Not even close.

BroncoBuff
01-13-2009, 01:44 PM
Curry is not gonna happen ... stop with the Curry talk please.

Mountain Bronco
01-13-2009, 01:52 PM
I don't know which safety I would take, but word is safety is a deep position. Also listening to Sirius, they mentioned that Nolan has experience coaching a 4-3 and that with our roster it might take more than one offseason to fully convert. This is probably true as we just don't have the horses for a 3-4 at this point.

UboBronco
01-13-2009, 01:52 PM
I think Taylor Mays, Everette Brown or Gerald McCoy have to be the selection in round 1. If they aren't there, we'll have to look to trade down. No way we can take Raji right there at 12. He is a good player but is probably better suited for a 4-3 under technique.

We can land Terrance Taylor in the 4th or 5th round. He could be just as effective as a plugger in the 3-4 at half the price.

Mays and McCoy both have announced they will be staying in school another year unfortunately..

elsid13
01-13-2009, 01:54 PM
I want to hear from those that don't think BJ Raji is worth the 12 pick. If you are in favor of Brace in round two, fine. I can understand that. He would be a nice value pick there. I don't need to hear from you.

I am looking for a response from those that say he's not worth 12, but would be worth it in a trade-down to the 15-20th pick.

Mel Kiper has him ranked as the #1 DT in the draft and the #8 senior overall. He very well might not even make it to #12, so why is it such a reach? Especially given that it is a position of need.

I like Raji but I rather have Brace. I think Brace fits the role of NT better then Raji. Plus I think that Brace might give us the option to use him like Ngata in Baltimore. Hopefull someone will fall in love with Raji and want to move up to pick him at 12.

BroncoBuff
01-13-2009, 01:58 PM
Michael Crabtree just announced he's coming out for the draft ... that pushes everybody back one spot :thumbs:

Drek
01-13-2009, 02:01 PM
Taking any RB at 12 any year is a bigger "reach" than taking the best DT in the draft by far, the #8 ranked senior in the draft by everyone's favorite draft guru: Mike Mayock.

What I keep reading is fear. Fear of the infamous "first round DT bust" factor. Suck it up already. And study a dictionary (not just you, Abilene). Let's go slowly this time.....a reach is taking someone at 12 that would still be there in round two. A reach is NOT taking someone who simply plays a position that seems to bust a lot in round one.

A risk? Sure (but what pick isn't).
A reach? Not even close.

I got no fear of DT busts. Its just that an NT's job is not the kind of things people draft high.

Everyone talks about how important they are. Well so are C's, but elite C's fall to the 2nd and 3rd rounds all the time while OTs go in the top 5.

An NT's job is to stuff the run and hold the point of attack. A great NT can generate a little pressure and redefines the LOS a yard or two back on every play.

Is Raji that kind of guy? If our scouts think so then great, do what it takes to get him. But if he's only marginally better at stuffing the run and taking up space then Brace or another prospect in this class then he isn't worth #12.

Terrence Cody is a top 15 NT talent but he chose to go back to school, I'm not sold on BJ Raji being one.

AbileneBroncoFan
01-13-2009, 02:02 PM
Taking any RB at 12 any year is a bigger "reach" than taking the best DT in the draft by far, the #8 ranked senior in the draft by everyone's favorite draft guru: Mike Mayock.

What I keep reading is fear. Fear of the infamous "first round DT bust" factor. Suck it up already. And study a dictionary (not just you, Abilene). Let's go slowly this time.....a reach is taking someone at 12 that would still be there in round two. A reach is NOT taking someone who simply plays a position that seems to bust a lot in round one.

A risk? Sure (but what pick isn't).
A reach? Not even close.

Raji will not likely fall to us. Historically when a guy grades out that much higher than the 2nd best at his position he'll go top 10. And I'll admit, I do fear a DT bust. We have one right now on our roster that was the number 4 overall pick a few years ago and supposed to be a force in the NFL. He is so much of a force that he wasn't even the best DT on the worst defense in the league last year. Our best bet is to trade down. There's no one that I really think we should take at 12 that won't be there at 20. And we could pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder, and that's huge in this year's draft. I haven't studied the prospects enough yet, but right now for the 1st round I think our only legitimate options are Maualuga, Morena, and Raji, in no particular order. To get Raji we will probably have to trade up (if he falls great, but then we have to make a tough choice of him vs. the other guys). The other two we may could get by trading down, depending on how fast Maualuga runs. Trading down is the best scenario. Ideally, we could trade down and nab Moreno at 20ish, use our 2nd on Tyson Jackson or the 2nd best DT, then nab an undersized DE and convert him to LB in the 3rd. The pick we acquire could be used on the best player available whenever it comes up.

BroncoBuff
01-13-2009, 02:04 PM
Terrence Cody is a top 15 NT talent but he chose to go back to school.Everybody has their own personal reasons for such decisions, but I would run from that program. What a deflating three years these must have been for Cody ... can't imagine why he'd stay when he's projected in the 1st round ???

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 02:05 PM
I got no fear of DT busts. Its just that an NT's job is not the kind of things people draft high.

Everyone talks about how important they are. Well so are C's, but elite C's fall to the 2nd and 3rd rounds all the time while OTs go in the top 5.

An NT's job is to stuff the run and hold the point of attack. A great NT can generate a little pressure and redefines the LOS a yard or two back on every play.

Is Raji that kind of guy? If our scouts think so then great, do what it takes to get him. But if he's only marginally better at stuffing the run and taking up space then Brace or another prospect in this class then he isn't worth #12.

Terrence Cody is a top 15 NT talent but he chose to go back to school, I'm not sold on BJ Raji being one.

Which is why I say forget about spending #12 on a NT this year. Use it on another area of need, like LB. Lot's of excellent LBs in this first round. Go for Cody next year. He needed another year of seasoning anyway. People act like we fix the D, and go to the SB next year. I say, splash some cold water in your face, look at the D, then look at the schedule. We're talking about a two, or three year process.

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 02:06 PM
And I'll admit, I do fear a DT bust. We have one right now on our roster that was the number 4 overall pick a few years ago and supposed to be a force in the NFL. He is so much of a force that he wasn't even the best DT on the worst defense in the league last year.

Robertson was most definitely the best DT on the Broncos last year.

socalorado
01-13-2009, 02:07 PM
Which is why I say forget about spending #12 on a NT this year. Use it on another area of need, like LB. Lot's of excellent LBs in this first round. Go for Cody next year. He needed another year of seasoning anyway. People act like we fix the D, and go to the SB next year. I say, splash some cold water in your face, look at the D, then look at the schedule. We're talking about a two, or three year process.

Its an easy decision with the 3-4.

REY REY

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 02:08 PM
Which is why I say forget about spending #12 on a NT this year. Use it on another area of need, like LB. Lot's of excellent LBs in this first round. Go for Cody next year. He needed another year of seasoning anyway. People act like we fix the D, and go to the SB next year. I say, splash some cold water in your face, look at the D, then look at the schedule. We're talking about a two, or three year process.

Unless Cody gets a major injury or decides to start sucking, he'll be way out of the drafting range of the Broncos next season.....unless of course, the Broncos decide to go 6-10 or worse.

I just can't go through the next year anticipating that kind of scenario.

elsid13
01-13-2009, 02:08 PM
Everybody has their own personal reasons for such decisions, but I would run from that program. What a deflating three years these must have been for Cody ... can't imagine why he'd stay when he's projected in the 1st round ???

Because his knee wasn't ready and he wanted earn his degree.

Inkana7
01-13-2009, 02:08 PM
Its an easy decision with the 3-4.

REY REY

If Raji isn't there, then I can definitely see them drafting Rey.

AbileneBroncoFan
01-13-2009, 02:08 PM
Robertson was most definitely the best DT on the Broncos last year.

My bad. Meant to say DL. I'm trying to eat and type before my 3:30 class.

Inkana7
01-13-2009, 02:09 PM
Unless Cody gets a major injury or decides to start sucking, he'll be way out of the drafting range of the Broncos next season.....unless of course, the Broncos decide to go 6-10 or worse.

I just can't go through the next year anticipating that kind of scenario.

Have you seen our schedule? Unless we make some MAJOR moves, and all good ones, as a team in transition, 6 wins would be good.

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 02:11 PM
Have you seen our schedule? Unless we make some MAJOR moves, and all good ones, as a team in transition, 6 wins would be good.

I refuse to go into any season anticipating 6 wins at best. If I wanted to do that, I'd become a Raider or Chief fan.

Drek
01-13-2009, 02:17 PM
Unless Cody gets a major injury or decides to start sucking, he'll be way out of the drafting range of the Broncos next season.....unless of course, the Broncos decide to go 6-10 or worse.

I just can't go through the next year anticipating that kind of scenario.

I'd agree. We can't just bet on landing our NT in '09 when we need to start having one in '08.

But jumping on Raji even if he isn't a great fit isn't the answer.

I think we'll start out as a hybrid 3-4/4-3 defense that will transition more and more into the 3-4 with each passing year. I love Raji's talents as a NT in a 4-3, but in a 3-4 all that penetration and pass rush ability he's got is something you pay for but can't really use.

Someone like Brace or Taylor would be much more cost effective and would be just as likely to grow into a reliable NT as Raji.

Now if Nolan wants to play 3-4/4-3 hybrid from here on out, no gradual move to being just a 3-4 team, then I get a LOT more interested in Raji.

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 03:48 PM
Unless Cody gets a major injury or decides to start sucking, he'll be way out of the drafting range of the Broncos next season.....unless of course, the Broncos decide to go 6-10 or worse.

I just can't go through the next year anticipating that kind of scenario.

We traded up to 11 to get Cutler. I see no reason we couldn't plan ahead to do the same thing next year for a franchise NT, if that's what next season paints him to be. Hell, if the dude looks like another Ted Washington, I say do what it takes. The main point is that I don't believe the Broncos can possible rebuild this defense in one off-season. So don't reach this year. Pick up the riches that are there for the taking. In this draft, that's LBs.

manchambo
01-13-2009, 04:34 PM
My 2 cents: Saying position X is our number one priority is a path to failure. We need to say every position on defense, save CB, is our number one priority.

If Raji is on the board and is our top-rated pick, then pick him. If there's a safety, LB or end we like better, pick him.

This defense is undertalented in a big way, and we need to get can't miss talent somehwere on the field out of this pick. If that means we muddle through with Thomas or Robertson or a free agent playing the nose for a season, so be it.

This is not a one-draft project, and it would be foolish in the extreme to treat it as such.

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 06:50 PM
Its an easy decision with the 3-4.

REY REY

The Chiefs, Seahawks, Browns and Bengals all need a LB. If the Chiefs take Curry, no way does Rey make it past the Bengals.

Inkana7
01-13-2009, 07:45 PM
Seahawks in no way need a LB. Bengals just drafted Keith Rivers last year. Chiefs need LB, but they need a DE much, much more.

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 07:59 PM
We traded up to 11 to get Cutler. I see no reason we couldn't plan ahead to do the same thing next year for a franchise NT, if that's what next season paints him to be. Hell, if the dude looks like another Ted Washington, I say do what it takes.

Big, big difference between trading up to 11 when you had the ammo the Broncos had that year, and trading up to where this particular guy is probably going to be picked next year with no extra picks.

The main point is that I don't believe the Broncos can possible rebuild this defense in one off-season. So don't reach this year.

Again, that "reach" word. Raji would not be a reach by any definition of the word. A guy with his resume would be a top 20 pick (if not better) last year, this year and next year.

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Bengals just drafted Keith Rivers last year.

You do realize that OLB and MLB are two different positions, right?

Mr. Trout
01-13-2009, 08:32 PM
FWIW, here is a list of FA DTs...its kind of thin.

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

If we want to be competitive this year, we may need to trade.


Grady Jackson baby!!

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 08:41 PM
Those who think Rey and Raji are going to make it to #12 raise your hands.

BroncoBuff
01-13-2009, 08:55 PM
Those who think Rey and Raji are going to make it to #12 raise your hands.Maybe not, but they both moved one step lower with Crabtree's announcement today ... and there's more announcements coming!

I am optimistic! ;D

mhgaffney
01-13-2009, 09:01 PM
Most of the mocks have NT BJ Raji, FS Mays and MLB Malauga being there for us in the 12th. Two out of three of them will surely be there.

According to various reports DT Terrence Taylor's stock is rising -- so he will probably be long gone by the 3rd round.

broncosteven
01-13-2009, 09:51 PM
Most of the mocks have NT BJ Raji, FS Mays and MLB Malauga being there for us in the 12th. Two out of three of them will surely be there.

According to various reports DT Terrence Taylor's stock is rising -- so he will probably be long gone by the 3rd round.

We got the best OT last year, If they target DT in 1st round I hope it works out just as well.

lex
01-13-2009, 10:24 PM
Most of the mocks have NT BJ Raji, FS Mays and MLB Malauga being there for us in the 12th. Two out of three of them will surely be there.

According to various reports DT Terrence Taylor's stock is rising -- so he will probably be long gone by the 3rd round.


Not that Im against drafting Maualuga but twice now the cadre has emphasized smart players. One of the dings on Maualuga is that he is undisciplined...in other words, he makes bad decisions, which doesnt coincide with smart players. Id kind of like him because of his physical presence in the running game but if he is really a liability on fakes and in the passing game, maye Maualuga's not such a good idea.

fdf
01-13-2009, 11:54 PM
I just can't believe anybody can look at this roster and recommend using the #12 pick on offense hmmm...

Some people will always believe that a first round running back is all we need for the superbowl. It's the same every year.

AbileneBroncoFan
01-13-2009, 11:55 PM
My 2 cents: Saying position X is our number one priority is a path to failure. We need to say every position on defense, save CB, is our number one priority.

If Raji is on the board and is our top-rated pick, then pick him. If there's a safety, LB or end we like better, pick him.

This defense is undertalented in a big way, and we need to get can't miss talent somehwere on the field out of this pick. If that means we muddle through with Thomas or Robertson or a free agent playing the nose for a season, so be it.

This is not a one-draft project, and it would be foolish in the extreme to treat it as such.

Smartest thing I've read all day.

Drek
01-14-2009, 05:56 AM
Grady Jackson baby!!

Grady Jackson is at the end of his rope, he's a two down guy at best and I'm not sure if we'd really want those two downs to come in something as physically demanding as NT in a 3-4 front.

Not that Im against drafting Maualuga but twice now the cadre has emphasized smart players. One of the dings on Maualuga is that he is undisciplined...in other words, he makes bad decisions, which doesnt coincide with smart players. Id kind of like him because of his physical presence in the running game but if he is really a liability on fakes and in the passing game, maye Maualuga's not such a good idea.

I'm not a big Maualuga fan for this very reason. He's like Super-Nate Webster. Undisciplined, flying around and landing some big hits but not being a reliable force.

In college thats fine, he can recover from his poor reads and over pursuit 90% of the time because competition is lacking. But you put him in the NFL and that over pursuit will see him giving up some big plays.

The only guy I'm more worried about at #12 is Brian Orakpo. While he's a stud talent I just have zero faith in Texas to ever develop their players beyond the most basic of fundamentals needed to run their "we're the most athletic/talented team in the Big 12 so why get too complex" offensive and defensive schemes. Look at Crowder, all the talent in the world and he's never had any of it polished. Raw athletes work in college but not in the pros. Now maybe Orakpo doesn't fit that mold, I haven't gotten to see him play much, but its something I'm nervous about with UT guys.

We shouldn't rule out an OLB pass rusher though, Orakpo might be better fundamentally than I'm giving UT credit for and Aaron Maybin looks like a stud straight out of Linebacker U. Bringing in an elite pass rushing OLB would be key to making the 4-3 to 3-4 transition.

Elway777
01-14-2009, 07:04 AM
Not that Im against drafting Maualuga but twice now the cadre has emphasized smart players. One of the dings on Maualuga is that he is undisciplined...in other words, he makes bad decisions, which doesnt coincide with smart players. Id kind of like him because of his physical presence in the running game but if he is really a liability on fakes and in the passing game, maye Maualuga's not such a good idea. If the Broncos go too a 3-4 then then he would have less Gap responibility and more freedom to make plays. If the broncos stay in the 4-3 then I would not draft him.

Beantown Bronco
01-14-2009, 07:06 AM
Most of the mocks have NT BJ Raji, FS Mays and MLB Malauga being there for us in the 12th.

Mays is not entering the draft.

socalorado
01-14-2009, 07:27 AM
Not that Im against drafting Maualuga but twice now the cadre has emphasized smart players. One of the dings on Maualuga is that he is undisciplined...in other words, he makes bad decisions, which doesnt coincide with smart players. Id kind of like him because of his physical presence in the running game but if he is really a liability on fakes and in the passing game, maye Maualuga's not such a good idea.

Oh lexy!
Rey Maualuga

Pros: Nasty, competitive, playmaker. Always around the ball.
(Oh good! A nasty playmaker! Something DEN doesnt have!)
Cons: May have more trouble with NFL TE's and backs in coverage.
(Meh. I want him at the LOS in a 3-4 anyways, hes not that bad in coverage. Please see Ohio St, Penn St games)
Overall: Outstanding player with the ability to dominate and change a game. Plays well in space, can move sideline to siideline and hits like a sledgehammer. Instant starter
(HUh. Sounds like he has the ability to DOMINATE AND CHANGE A GAME)

Gimme a break! :rofl:

HILife
01-14-2009, 07:29 AM
Which is why I say forget about spending #12 on a NT this year. Use it on another area of need, like LB. Lot's of excellent LBs in this first round. Go for Cody next year. He needed another year of seasoning anyway. People act like we fix the D, and go to the SB next year. I say, splash some cold water in your face, look at the D, then look at the schedule. We're talking about a two, or three year process.

I agree. If Nolan can switch completely to a 3-4 defense, filled with a bunch of rookie starters from the 2009 draft, play a REALLY tuff schudele and still get the defense in the mid (15) to high teens (18) I'd "crown his arse" because he defiently wasn't who I thought he was.

socalorado
01-14-2009, 07:36 AM
Rey Maualuga would have been a top 15 pick and might have been picked up at number 7 from the New England Patriots in the 2008 Draft, but he has decided to stay in school for the "I want to win a National Championship" reason. With that said he is in no doubt the favorite to not only be the best MLB in the 2009 Draft but to be the best overall LB and a top 3 defensive player in the 2009 NFL Draft. Rey Maualuga's pro's are absolutely stunning. He has incrediable strength and incrediable size to go along with amazing speed for his 6'2/5 255lbs. body. Rey Maualuga's speed and explosion is far supperior than any other linebacking prospect in the 2008 Draft and the 2009 Draft. Rey's athletic ability also sets him apart from any other prospect and he has the prototype size/speed ratio that NFL scouts just drool over. Rey reminds me of another USC grad that was picked high and had the same type of athleticism and violent playing style. Rey is a Junior Seau clone. He plays the game with a violent passion, with the intent to dominant and to intimadate his opponents. He has the speed and acceleration to make up for bad angles and mis-reads. Rey Maualuga can be summed up in one word......throwback. Maualuga is a throwback to the old style of linebackers. He plays hard and hits even harder. Rey will be a fantastic pro. As for Maualuga's cons, they are fairly easy to see and just as easy to fix. Rey has only one flaw and it's experience, he relies on his athleticism a little too much which causes him to free lance a bit which sometimes puts him out of position. There are plays that you can clearly see that he took a bad angle which in turn causes him to have to make the tackle 5 or 6 yards further than he had too if he'd takent the proper angle. In the league, the good players will expose him if he does this and it will turn small gaines into big gashes. Rey Maualuga absolutely must go to a team that has a veteran LB that can take him under his wing and school him on the NFL game. He must also go to a team that has an impeccable coaching staff that can work with Rey to bring out his full potential. The Pats were in prime position in the 2008 Draft to mold Rey Maualuga into the next Seau and turn him into their future of the middle of their defense. He will still go top 10 in the 2009 Draft, but the team that selects him will have to work with him and make sure they teach him the basics of the position, because he's already ahead of the class when it comes to the things you can't teach, talent. Rey Maualuga is easily the best LB in the country and is without a doubt the one of the top defensive prospect's for the 2009 NFL Draft. Now it's just a matter of sitting back a watching him develope into even a greater player during his senior year at SC.

socalorado
01-14-2009, 07:43 AM
Seems like REY REY is doing just fine in coverage.

http://beta.sling.com/video/show/96509/97/Rey-Maualuga-intercepts-the-pass-an

HILife
01-14-2009, 07:46 AM
Rey Maualuga would have been a top 15 pick and might have been picked up at number 7 from the New England Patriots in the 2008 Draft, but he has decided to stay in school for the "I want to win a National Championship" reason. With that said he is in no doubt the favorite to not only be the best MLB in the 2009 Draft but to be the best overall LB and a top 3 defensive player in the 2009 NFL Draft. Rey Maualuga's pro's are absolutely stunning. He has incrediable strength and incrediable size to go along with amazing speed for his 6'2/5 255lbs. body. Rey Maualuga's speed and explosion is far supperior than any other linebacking prospect in the 2008 Draft and the 2009 Draft. Rey's athletic ability also sets him apart from any other prospect and he has the prototype size/speed ratio that NFL scouts just drool over. Rey reminds me of another USC grad that was picked high and had the same type of athleticism and violent playing style. Rey is a Junior Seau clone. He plays the game with a violent passion, with the intent to dominant and to intimadate his opponents. He has the speed and acceleration to make up for bad angles and mis-reads. Rey Maualuga can be summed up in one word......throwback. Maualuga is a throwback to the old style of linebackers. He plays hard and hits even harder. Rey will be a fantastic pro. As for Maualuga's cons, they are fairly easy to see and just as easy to fix. Rey has only one flaw and it's experience, he relies on his athleticism a little too much which causes him to free lance a bit which sometimes puts him out of position. There are plays that you can clearly see that he took a bad angle which in turn causes him to have to make the tackle 5 or 6 yards further than he had too if he'd takent the proper angle. In the league, the good players will expose him if he does this and it will turn small gaines into big gashes. Rey Maualuga absolutely must go to a team that has a veteran LB that can take him under his wing and school him on the NFL game. He must also go to a team that has an impeccable coaching staff that can work with Rey to bring out his full potential. The Pats were in prime position in the 2008 Draft to mold Rey Maualuga into the next Seau and turn him into their future of the middle of their defense. He will still go top 10 in the 2009 Draft, but the team that selects him will have to work with him and make sure they teach him the basics of the position, because he's already ahead of the class when it comes to the things you can't teach, talent. Rey Maualuga is easily the best LB in the country and is without a doubt the one of the top defensive prospect's for the 2009 NFL Draft. Now it's just a matter of sitting back a watching him develope into even a greater player during his senior year at SC.

while, I guess we won't draft him then.

socalorado
01-14-2009, 07:48 AM
while, I guess we won't draft him then.

DJ WILLIAMS.

Drek
01-14-2009, 07:56 AM
DJ WILLIAMS.

DJ might have a good number of years in the L but he still plays like a rookie.

A real talented one? Sure. But he's not going to be teaching anyone how to avoid over pursuit and mental lapses.

The best argument for drafting Maualuga if he's available at #12 would be that we just hired Mike Nolan.

He got top 5 MLB production from Hartwell in the middle with Baltimore, and he had Willis playing at a pro-bowl level from day one in SF. Dude knows how to coach LBs.

If he wants Maualuga then I'm on board. If not then pass.

Rohirrim
01-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Hopefully, Rey doesn't end up on the Chiefs. Too bad for him he'll probably end up on the Bengals or the Browns.