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View Full Version : The Real Reason Bowlen Picked McDaniel


footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:11 AM
I know we've heard how impressed they were with him, and yes his youth and energy, inteligence, etc...all probably contributed. But here's the real reason I think he was chosen. You have only to look at Pat's record in the past when he selected a coach he wanted to be here a long time. Check it out:

Dan Reeves: Dallas Cowboys/played in 2 Superbowls, coached in 1; offensive coordinator under HOF coach Tom Landry

Mike Shanahan: San Francisco 49ers; coached under Bill Walsh, won the 1994 Superbowl; offensive coordiniator

Josh McDaniel: New England Patriots/coached under future HOFer Bill Belichick; won 3 Superbowls; offensive coordinator

Here's the common factors:

1) all 3 were offensive coordinators considered innovative coaches
2) all 3 have won Superbowls with great franchises
3) all 3 coached under the best coaches in their era


Bottom line: Bowlen wants an offensive guy who has experience on a Superbowl winning team and coached under an NFL legend. Bowlen is 2 for 2 in selecting long term guys he wanted to get to the Superbowl with, so maybe he knows what he's doing. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt on this move since he's shown in the past he knows what he's doing with this stuff.

Merlin
01-12-2009, 10:14 AM
1) all 3 were offensive coordinators considered innovative coaches
2) all 3 have won Superbowls with great franchises
3) all 3 coached under the best coaches in their era

One MAJOR diffierence. Two of those came from a tree that provided great fruits. The last one came from a tree that has given nothing but rotten fruit.

Pick Six
01-12-2009, 10:18 AM
One MAJOR diffierence. Two of those came from a tree that provided great fruits. The last one came from a tree that has given nothing but rotten fruit.

You may personally loathe Belichick, but you can't deny what he has done as a head coach in New England.

gadlaw
01-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Why does everyone always forget the part where Shanahan was hired by Dan Reeves to start his NFL coaching career? Bill Walsh didn't create Mike Shanahan out of thin air, Bill Walsh didn't smote the ground with his staff and creat Shanahan - Dan Reeves did that.
And if your analysis is that Bowlen picks proven folks as opposed to a shot in the dark then that's right as far as I can see.

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:20 AM
One MAJOR diffierence. Two of those came from a tree that provided great fruits. The last one came from a tree that has given nothing but rotten fruit.

How many SBs have the Pats won without all that "rotten fruit"?

Zero.

Garcia Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:22 AM
You may personally loathe Belichick, but you can't deny what he has done as a head coach in New England.

...with a video camera

BroncoFiend
01-12-2009, 10:22 AM
I know we've heard how impressed they were with him, and yes his youth and energy, inteligence, etc...all probably contributed. But here's the real reason I think he was chosen. You have only to look at Pat's record in the past when he selected a coach he wanted to be here a long time. Check it out:

Dan Reeves: Dallas Cowboys/played in 2 Superbowls, coached in 1; offensive coordinator under HOF coach Tom Landry

Mike Shanahan: San Francisco 49ers; coached under Bill Walsh, won the 1994 Superbowl; offensive coordiniator

Josh McDaniel: New England Patriots/coached under future HOFer Bill Belichick; won 3 Superbowls; offensive coordinator

Here's the common factors:

1) all 3 were offensive coordinators considered innovative coaches
2) all 3 have won Superbowls with great franchises
3) all 3 coached under the best coaches in their era


Bottom line: Bowlen wants an offensive guy who has experience on a Superbowl winning team and coached under an NFL legend. Bowlen is 2 for 2 in selecting long term guys he wanted to get to the Superbowl with, so maybe he knows what he's doing. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt on this move since he's shown in the past he knows what he's doing with this stuff.

Pretty sure Bowlen didn't hire Reeves, he was here when Bowlen bought the team. The only two hires Bowlen made were Phillips and Shanny, and those two were as different as you can get.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:24 AM
One MAJOR diffierence. Two of those came from a tree that provided great fruits. The last one came from a tree that has given nothing but rotten fruit.
Not true. Three of his understudies have been very successful in college coaching jobs; Weis, Saban and Al Groh have all done very well. Kirk Ferentz has a winning record at Iowa and so has Freso States Pat Hill. In the pros, Schwartz has done very well for the Titans as their DC and Scott Pioli is coveted as a GM candidate. Also...Florida's Urban Meyer, INO the best college coach in America and the guy I wanted...considers himself a protege of Belichick as well because he's studied his methods.

Taco John
01-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Bowlen is 2 for 2 in selecting long term guys he wanted to get to the Superbowl with...

Try 1 for 2.

Garcia Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:26 AM
There is no belicheck tree. It's the Bill Parcells tree.

colonelbeef
01-12-2009, 10:26 AM
1. He has an Irish surname

Drek
01-12-2009, 10:27 AM
One MAJOR diffierence. Two of those came from a tree that provided great fruits. The last one came from a tree that has given nothing but rotten fruit.

Way to buy into the myth that Belicheck assistants don't pan out.

Mangini went to the playoffs year one, would've gone there year three if Favre hadn't gone rouge on him. Three seasons, two with winning records, should've been two with playoff appearances. That for a guy who inherited a totally busted roster.

Crennel was also getting some good work done in Cleveland, despite the franchise being driven deeper and deeper into the gutter since being brought back. He was charged with changing a losing mindset on a team with zero talent, and just when he started to get results he was dumped because his starts packed it in for a season.

Weis really isn't comparable, he's in college and coaching a program that isn't actually as committed to being a top football program as its competitors.

Of all that though, McDaniels is the one who has been given the most freedom in NE and the one who made the most positive changes to the team's productivity. The season directly before the Jets hiring Mangini Belicheck kept having to take more and more defensive responsibilities from him. Crennel has spent his whole career as just Belicheck's defensive wingman. And McDaniels made immediate, dramatic improvements since replacing Weis.

Biggest of all, the control freak that is Belicheck not only do almost all sources out of NE suggest that he let McDaniels call the offense in '05 as just a 28 year old QB coach, but he then promoted him to full out OC and let him take more and more control of the offense over the past three seasons. The biggest control freak in the NFL chose to delegate to this guy. He never delegated to anyone else as much as he did to this one guy who was only in his early 30's.

That is basically the ultimate recommendation as far as I'm concerned.

TheReverend
01-12-2009, 10:27 AM
Pretty sure Bowlen didn't hire Reeves, he was here when Bowlen bought the team. The only two hires Bowlen made were Phillips and Shanny, and those two were as different as you can get.

I was about to point that out, and yes, you're absolutely right.

Pat's only hired Wade, Shanahan, and now McDaniels.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:28 AM
Pretty sure Bowlen didn't hire Reeves, he was here when Bowlen bought the team. The only two hires Bowlen made were Phillips and Shanny, and those two were as different as you can get.
True...I forgot about Edgar Kaiser. However, Bowlen did KEEP Reeves when he came in and he stayed with him for a very long time. Reeves fits the mold of superbowl experienced coaches. I think that's what he wants in a coach more than anything else. Phillips was never intended to be more than a guy keeping the seat warm for Shanny.

Taco John
01-12-2009, 10:30 AM
True...I forgot about Edgar Kaiser. However, Bowlen did KEEP Reeves when he came in and he stayed with him for a very long time. Reeves fits the mold of superbowl experienced coaches. I think that's what he wants in a coach more than anything else. Phillips was never intended to be more than a guy keeping the seat warm for Shanny.



Even still, Reeves did not win any Superbowls. In fact, many would argue that he's the reason the Broncos *didn't* win any Superbowls in the 80's.

GoHAM
01-12-2009, 10:30 AM
Not true. Three of his understudies have been very successful in college coaching jobs; Weis, Saban and Al Groh have all done very well. Kirk Ferentz has a winning record at Iowa and so has Freso States Pat Hill. In the pros, Schwartz has done very well for the Titans as their DC and Scott Pioli is coveted as a GM candidate. Also...Florida's Urban Meyer, INO the best college coach in America and the guy I wanted...considers himself a protege of Belichick as well because he's studied his methods.

I think the Golden Domers might take umbrage at the inclusion of Weis in your list.

Broncojef
01-12-2009, 10:31 AM
Pretty sure Bowlen didn't hire Reeves, he was here when Bowlen bought the team. The only two hires Bowlen made were Phillips and Shanny, and those two were as different as you can get.

I think it shows Pat has matured in his coaching selection process and is looking for another more invigorating young guy to relate to and spark a fire under his team. The similar factors in regards to the SuperBowl experience and offensive mind set isn't a trivial commonality. It seems Pat sees where he had success with Mike and tried to incorporate that into this next generation pick. While McDaniel won't have Shanny type control I do believe Pat sees him as possessing many good Shanny type qualities and is probably a guy he thinks he can deal with closely over the next few years to rebuild his team.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:31 AM
Try 1 for 2.
Fine...but he still STUCK with him when he came in and bought the team. A lot of owners fire the incumbent coach when they buy the team. So even though he didn't hire him, he also didn't fire him when he got here and he stuck with him almost as long as he did with Shanny. My point is...Bowlen wants guys with Superbowl experience who coached under NFL legends. I think that's his main criteria.

no-pseudo-fan
01-12-2009, 10:32 AM
I want to see it on the field. We will see very soon with the annoucement of his staff and FA period. Then the Draft.

baja
01-12-2009, 10:33 AM
True...I forgot about Edgar Kaiser. However, Bowlen did KEEP Reeves when he came in and he stayed with him for a very long time. Reeves fits the mold of superbowl experienced coaches. I think that's what he wants in a coach more than anything else. Phillips was never intended to be more than a guy keeping the seat warm for Shanny.

Dude your cute theory is fatally flawed just admit it.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:34 AM
I think the Golden Domers might take umbrage at the inclusion of Weis in your list.
Yeah he's not great but he's still got a winning record in college. In any case he's not "rotten fruit"...probably a better assistant than a HC though.

missingnumber7
01-12-2009, 10:36 AM
There is no belicheck tree. It's the Bill Parcells tree.

Exactly and how many Belichick coaches have been successful after they have left him? My last count is there were 2 that got fired this year and one more that should've been fired a long time ago, although does college really count? Most of the Success out of the Belichick tree has been in college. Now, we have a young QB and will this work out. Gawd I hope so, but it all depends on who he surrounds himself with and how the team buys into his program.

http://www.allthingsbillbelichick.com/tree.htm

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:36 AM
Dude your cute theory is fatally flawed just admit it.
So you're saying that the prior experience of coaching under Landry, Walsh and Bellichick and winning a combined 7 Superbowls had nothing to do with him hiring/retaining these guys? That seems absurd.

So if you think those factors had nothing to do with his decision...then what other common denominators can you find to explain his decisions?

mwill07
01-12-2009, 10:37 AM
Shanahan never worked for Walsh - Seifert was the 49er coach from 1990-1996.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:40 AM
Even still, Reeves did not win any Superbowls. In fact, many would argue that he's the reason the Broncos *didn't* win any Superbowls in the 80's.
Reeves was OC for Dallas when they beat Denver in 1977. As a player he won one in 1971 when Dallas beat Miami.

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Exactly and how many Belichick coaches have been successful after they have left him? My last count is there were 2 that got fired this year and one more that should've been fired a long time ago,

Who is this "one more that should've been fired a long time ago?"

missingnumber7
01-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Shanahan never worked for Walsh - Seifert was the 49er coach from 1990-1996.

Seifert was a product of the Walsh system, thus making Shanny a product of the Walsh tree.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:46 AM
Shanahan never worked for Walsh - Seifert was the 49er coach from 1990-1996.
Walsh coached the 9ers from '79-'88, so you're right, but I think Seifert pretty much utilized his system did he not? You're right on that though...however he still worked with a coach who won it all

All I'm saying here is that Bowlen seems to want a guy who has worked in an organization where they've won it all. That seems to be the primary common denominator...

TheReverend
01-12-2009, 10:47 AM
Who is this "one more that should've been fired a long time ago?"

I think he means Weiss?

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 10:50 AM
Way to buy into the myth that Belicheck assistants don't pan out.

Mangini went to the playoffs year one, would've gone there year three if Favre hadn't gone rouge on him. Three seasons, two with winning records, should've been two with playoff appearances. That for a guy who inherited a totally busted roster.

Crennel was also getting some good work done in Cleveland, despite the franchise being driven deeper and deeper into the gutter since being brought back. He was charged with changing a losing mindset on a team with zero talent, and just when he started to get results he was dumped because his starts packed it in for a season.

Weis really isn't comparable, he's in college and coaching a program that isn't actually as committed to being a top football program as its competitors.

Of all that though, McDaniels is the one who has been given the most freedom in NE and the one who made the most positive changes to the team's productivity. The season directly before the Jets hiring Mangini Belicheck kept having to take more and more defensive responsibilities from him. Crennel has spent his whole career as just Belicheck's defensive wingman. And McDaniels made immediate, dramatic improvements since replacing Weis.

Biggest of all, the control freak that is Belicheck not only do almost all sources out of NE suggest that he let McDaniels call the offense in '05 as just a 28 year old QB coach, but he then promoted him to full out OC and let him take more and more control of the offense over the past three seasons. The biggest control freak in the NFL chose to delegate to this guy. He never delegated to anyone else as much as he did to this one guy who was only in his early 30's.

That is basically the ultimate recommendation as far as I'm concerned.
That's a great point. Also...the organization has a lot to do with a coaches success. There's a reason Cleveland has stunk for so long. I think almost anyone in the NFL would say Denver's front office is superior to theirs.

chaz
01-12-2009, 10:52 AM
Not true. Three of his understudies have been very successful in college coaching jobs; Weis, Saban and Al Groh have all done very well.

You can not honestly consider Weis a success....

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:52 AM
I think he means Weiss?

By process of elimination, I am guessing the same......but that would be asinine considering he's only been coaching in ND for 4 seasons, and they were good for the first two years. The earliest they could've possibly made a move would be after the 2007 season, but (1) that wouldn't have made any sense and (2) one year ago is not by any stretch "a long time ago."

missingnumber7 really stepped in it with that one.

baja
01-12-2009, 10:53 AM
So you're saying that the prior experience of coaching under Landry, Walsh and Bellichick and winning a combined 7 Superbowls had nothing to do with him hiring/retaining these guys? That seems absurd.

So if you think those factors had nothing to do with his decision...then what other common denominators can you find to explain his decisions?

Here's your theory;

Footsteps -You have only to look at Pat's record in the past when he selected a coach he wanted to be here a long time. Check it out:

Dan Reeves: Dallas Cowboys/played in 2 Superbowls, coached in 1; offensive coordinator under HOF coach Tom Landry

Mike Shanahan: San Francisco 49ers; coached under Bill Walsh, won the 1994 Superbowl; offensive coordiniator

Josh McDaniel: New England Patriots/coached under future HOFer Bill Belichick; won 3 Superbowls; offensive coordinator

Bowlen did not hire one half of your basic criteria. Your research is wrong making your theory fatally flawed. Just admit it, it happens ;D

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 10:53 AM
You can not honestly consider Weis a success....

Are you ignoring his first two years in ND? They didn't give him a 10 year contract during his first season just because they thought he was a nice guy.

WolfpackGuy
01-12-2009, 10:57 AM
Weis was working with Willingham's players.

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 11:03 AM
Weis was working with Willingham's players.

Willingham was 11-12 in his last two years. Weis was 19-5 with, as you say, those same guys in his first two years.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 11:03 AM
Here's your theory;



Bowlen did not hire one half of your basic criteria. Your research is wrong making your theory fatally flawed. Just admit it, it happens ;D
I already noted that he didn't HIRE him, but do you not think that him KEEPING him when he bought the team is nearly as significant? Most new owners bring in their own guy but Bowlen kept Reeves...kept him for about as long as he did Shanny.

I don't really care if he hired him or not, but it still seems to me that what he wants is a guy who has played/coached with a team that's won a championship or more than one.

Again...what other factors on these guys are the same?

TonyR
01-12-2009, 11:06 AM
That's a great point. Also...the organization has a lot to do with a coaches success. There's a reason Cleveland has stunk for so long. I think almost anyone in the NFL would say Denver's front office is superior to theirs.

Yep. Belichick himself failed in Cleveland.

baja
01-12-2009, 11:12 AM
I already noted that he didn't HIRE him, but do you not think that him KEEPING him when he bought the team is nearly as significant? Most new owners bring in their own guy but Bowlen kept Reeves...kept him for about as long as he did Shanny.

I don't really care if he hired him or not, but it still seems to me that what he wants is a guy who has played/coached with a team that's won a championship or more than one.

Again...what other factors on these guys are the same?

You are so predictable. I know you will argue for 10 long winded pages about how you are right,that is your MO. You are one of those guys that can not accept that you made a mistake. If Bowlen did not hire Revees than you can not use his bio to prove a hiring trend and that is what you boldly set out to do. You were wrong.Case closed ;D

PS; Nobody really cares if you were wrong, it happens. ;D

chaz
01-12-2009, 11:16 AM
Are you ignoring his first two years in ND? They didn't give him a 10 year contract during his first season just because they thought he was a nice guy.

College coaches are judged on third and fourth years when they have their own recruits...he's been getting top talent but not producing.

There wasn't talk of him getting fired for no reason either.

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 11:25 AM
College coaches are judged on third and fourth years when they have their own recruits...he's been getting top talent but not producing.

There wasn't talk of him getting fired for no reason either.

I never said he hasn't had trouble the last two years. Look at the string of posts for the last page or so. I'm simply discrediting the earlier post that explicitly stated that he should've been fired "a long time ago."

Mountain Bronco
01-12-2009, 11:50 AM
Just drop your Theory dude. Shanny never worked for Walsh = flaw 1. Bowlen never hired Reves = Flaw 2.

You didn't even do a bit of research or have all even half of the facts correct before you went off and it makes you look stupid. Drop it already.

Garcia Bronco
01-12-2009, 11:55 AM
Al Groh has never ever been successful in college ever. He gets his ass whipped every year all over the place by just about any team. But he's from the Parcells tree anyway

chaz
01-12-2009, 12:36 PM
I never said he hasn't had trouble the last two years. Look at the string of posts for the last page or so. I'm simply discrediting the earlier post that explicitly stated that he should've been fired "a long time ago."

ok and that's fine, no beef there. But to consider Weis a successful protege of Belichick is ridiculous

theAPAOps5
01-12-2009, 12:39 PM
I thought it was because he was a gutless drunk.

Cito Pelon
01-12-2009, 12:44 PM
Why does everyone always forget the part where Shanahan was hired by Dan Reeves to start his NFL coaching career? Bill Walsh didn't create Mike Shanahan out of thin air, Bill Walsh didn't smote the ground with his staff and creat Shanahan - Dan Reeves did that.
And if your analysis is that Bowlen picks proven folks as opposed to a shot in the dark then that's right as far as I can see.

Yup. Shanny was Reeves right hand man from 1984 to 1988 when Shanny the POS defected to the Raiders, the POS. Then Reeves rehired Shanny after Al Davis fired him and Shanny was his right hand man again. Shanny did learn a few things from Bill Walsh, then parlayed that into a kickass team, then won one playoff game and one AFC West title from 1999-2008 (which is ten years, TJ). A concise history of Shanny and the Bronco organization.

LittleFloyd
01-12-2009, 12:59 PM
here's the real reason why McDaniels got the job, intead of wanting $$$ he will be paid $. With 7 million to Shanny it makes sense to Bowlens bottom line.

Cito Pelon
01-12-2009, 01:05 PM
Even still, Reeves did not win any Superbowls. In fact, many would argue that he's the reason the Broncos *didn't* win any Superbowls in the 80's.

Are you arguing that? If so, say so.

Reeves was a big part of the reason the Broncos even won AFC Titles. Dude was a demon on the sidelines. And who was his right hand man from 1984-1988? Mike Shanahan. If you're gonna rag on Reeves, you have to rag on Shanny also.

Then that POS Shanny went to the RAIDERS planning on kicking the Broncos ass, the POS.

So please, don't perpetuate the ignorant myth that Reeves was "the reason the Broncos *didn't* win any Superbowls in the 80's."

Kaylore
01-12-2009, 01:33 PM
Bowlen picked Mcdaniel because he interviewed well.

theAPAOps5
01-12-2009, 01:34 PM
Bowlen picked Mcdaniel because he interviewed well.

And because he is a gutless drunk who likes 15" peepees dripping with AIDS.

Cito Pelon
01-12-2009, 01:42 PM
Some drunk from Boston is on 104.3 the Fan now. Scott and ALfred keep him on, dude is an idiot.

DarkHorse
01-12-2009, 01:44 PM
The real reason he picked him is because he's from Barberton, Ohio - about 5 minutes from where I live.

I was actually born in Barberton, perhaps I should apply for a job ;D

Cito Pelon
01-12-2009, 01:47 PM
Alfred Williams saying Nolan is a hardass.

rubaiyat
01-12-2009, 01:52 PM
You may personally loathe Belichick, but you can't deny what he has done as a head coach in New England.

But it also can't be argued that this coaching tree hasn't been all that productive.

rubaiyat
01-12-2009, 01:54 PM
Not true. Three of his understudies have been very successful in college coaching jobs; Weis, Saban and Al Groh have all done very well. Kirk Ferentz has a winning record at Iowa and so has Freso States Pat Hill. In the pros, Schwartz has done very well for the Titans as their DC and Scott Pioli is coveted as a GM candidate. Also...Florida's Urban Meyer, INO the best college coach in America and the guy I wanted...considers himself a protege of Belichick as well because he's studied his methods.

Weis, really?

rubaiyat
01-12-2009, 02:01 PM
Are you ignoring his first two years in ND? They didn't give him a 10 year contract during his first season just because they thought he was a nice guy.

With players not recruited by him. Given that's half the job for a college coach I do not stand impressed. Given how it's been currently even with uberrated recruiting classes, yeah I'm going out on a limb and saying he hasn't been successful outside Notre Dame love to get into bowl games.

And really? People in charge don't give out contracts on a bit of a topical whim? Every contract is a good one and ironclad well reasoned?

baja
01-12-2009, 02:10 PM
Are you arguing that? If so, say so.

Reeves was a big part of the reason the Broncos even won AFC Titles. Dude was a demon on the sidelines. And who was his right hand man from 1984-1988? Mike Shanahan. If you're gonna rag on Reeves, you have to rag on Shanny also.

Then that POS Shanny went to the RAIDERS planning on kicking the Broncos ass, the POS.

So please, don't perpetuate the ignorant myth that Reeves was "the reason the Broncos *didn't* win any Superbowls in the 80's."

Are you talking about Dan - run on 1st, run on 2nd, OK John figure something out it's 3rd down - Revees?

Tombstone RJ
01-12-2009, 02:18 PM
good god the arguing here is pathetic... shanny was hired by reeves, then by the faiders. then he was fired by the faid and hired by the 49ers, where he coached under seifort and won SB in 1994. he was then rehired by BOWLEN.

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 02:20 PM
With players not recruited by him. Given that's half the job for a college coach I do not stand impressed.

I guess you missed the part above where I pointed out that he had a 19-5 record after his first two seasons, playing with most of the same guys that Willingham had an 11-12 record with. How is that not a MAJOR turnaround?

chaz
01-12-2009, 02:28 PM
I guess you missed the part above where I pointed out that he had a 19-5 record after his first two seasons, playing with most of the same guys that Willingham had an 11-12 record with. How is that not a MAJOR turnaround?

5 losses still isn't great for THE notre dame...and it's only gone down hill. I like Charlie, think he is a good guy, but he has been a disappointment.

TheReverend
01-12-2009, 02:32 PM
good god the arguing here is pathetic... shanny was hired by reeves, then by the faiders. then he was fired by the faid and hired by the 49ers, where he coached under seifort and won SB in 1994. he was then rehired by BOWLEN.

No. He went back to Denver between the Oakland firing and SF job.

Rock Chalk
01-12-2009, 02:34 PM
How many SBs have the Pats won without all that "rotten fruit"?

Zero.

How many playoff games have the rotten fruit won without Belicheat?

Zero.

Beantown Bronco
01-12-2009, 02:37 PM
How many playoff games have the rotten fruit won without Belicheat?

Zero.

Too many other variables on that side of the equation.

For Belichick, nothing (other than normal roster turnover) really changed but the coaches in question. For the coaches who left, everything changed....so it's not a true apples to apples comparison.

missingnumber7
01-13-2009, 07:01 AM
A 3 win season at Notre Dame is dang near unacceptable. That was his first recruiting class. And honestly...Notre Dame used to recruit itself. Kids begged for the opportunity to play for the school, quality players. Not so much the case anymore. I think that they were expecting the NFL to come calling again. And Weis is stuck until he can prove he can win or he returns as a coordinator and that won't happen because no owner is gonna pay the buyout for a coordinator.

Beantown Bronco
01-13-2009, 07:02 AM
good coach, bad recruiter

Cito Pelon
01-13-2009, 07:32 AM
Are you talking about Dan - run on 1st, run on 2nd, OK John figure something out it's 3rd down - Revees?

Another myth.

How did Elway get all those pass attempts if he only threw on 3rd down? Look up the stats.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

baja
01-13-2009, 07:37 AM
Another myth.

How did Elway get all those pass attempts if he only threw on 3rd down? Look up the stats.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

I don't have to lookup stats Cito I watched the games.