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The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 10:09 PM
Mike Nolan will be a good change for the defense, but we definitely need to add some talent. He obviously runs a 3-4, and we don't exactly have all the pieces to a 3-4 right now.

Mike Nolan uses a "read and react" defense. It is what it sounds, forces players to read then react. When the Niners were running this, they missed many assignments and gave up huge plays (sound familiar?). Some can possibly blame it on their lack of talent (sound familiar?).

Some might be thinking, "well aren't all defenses essentially read and react?"

No. In contrast, let's take the Ravens defense for example. They are an aggressive attack defense. Eagles are an aggressive attack defense.

I hate to say this, but our defense for the 2008 season was a "read and react" system. Those who watched most of the games should have easily seen this. For those who didn't...

The Broncos made significant changes in the off-season, starting with a change in defensive boss from Jim Bates to Bob Slowik. Slowik installed a simpler, read-and-react system that players like more.

Nolan's system had worked with the Ravens from 01-04. He had major talent. They had an elite player at nearly every position. Bundled along with a massive pass rush... thus making it a great scheme. Here an interesting article on it October 2008 before he was fired from the Niners.

The most famous Mike Nolan story, before he became coach of the 49ers, was about vanilla ice cream.

Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder, the story goes, placed a carton of vanilla ice cream in Nolan's office, where it was allowed to melt into a sticky mess. The mean-spirited prank underscored the owner's criticism of his defensive coordinator's read-and-react philosophy, which Snyder had termed "vanilla."

That story was considered just another in the Snyder-as-meddling-owner file. But it's worth remembering now. Because Nolan's philosophy and his defense's inability to make the big stop and get off the field — all of that is bringing back the images of vanilla ice cream.

When Nolan has been asked this week what's wrong with the defense, he has turned the issue back on his players, using words such as "errors" and "mistakes."

"In the last two weeks, we've made several errors on our own account and have hurt ourselves," Nolan said. "Some have been technique, some have been mental."

None, though, apparently have been scheme or coaching. In another comment Monday, Nolan said it didn't matter how well something was drawn up on the chalkboard, it comes down to execution.

But questions about Nolan's philosophy have followed him for years, through his stints in the NFC East, first in New York and then in Washington. A decade ago, Redskins players grew frustrated under Nolan's direction. After being singled out by Snyder,
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Nolan vowed to become more aggressive, and defensive players wore shirts that read "Relentless. Attack. Physical." But after the 1999 season, when his defense finished at the bottom of the league, Nolan was fired, and the complaints about his passive system went public.

We're starting to hear some of the same grumblings about read-and-react around the 49ers. Though the 49ers did blitz about a third of the time against New England, they often were burned badly by Matt Cassel when they did. And some of the key gains for the Patriots — such as the play that put them in range for the clinching field goal— came when the 49ers were less aggressive.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't?

The defensive letdowns are problematic for Nolan. Although he has a defensive coordinator in Greg Manusky, it's clear that this defense is Nolan's baby. Nolan has completely turned the offense over to Mike Martz and while that unit has its problems, it has been more entertaining than in recent years. Nolan's defense is the bigger problem and that reflects poorly on a coach already under fire.

Wednesday, a couple of the 49ers who used to play in Philadelphia — safety Michael Lewis and linebacker Takeo Spikes — talked about playing under aggressive Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson.

"That's his mentality," Spikes said. "It was a fun scheme, a scheme that I liked. You're in the attack mode all the time."

Lewis also loved the system that turns players loose, saying, "It's very aggressive. You never know where it's coming from. He's not afraid to put nine guys in the box."

When asked if the 49ers need to be more aggressive, Spikes said he thought they had a good mixture of approaches.

"It's all about what you're accustomed to running," he said. "These are two totally different mindsets. At the same time, it's personnel and what you draft people to come in and do."

Spikes was asked if he thought the 49ers' defense had an identity.

"I think we have an ID, but it's not consistent," he said.

And what is it?

"Make plays. Force turnovers."

The 49ers — tied for 21st in defense and ranked 23rd against the run — are tied with several other teams for seventh in the league in forcing turnovers. But right now the 49ers aren't making plays.

Whatever their identity is, it's very non-threatening. After five games, some might even call it vanilla.
Who knows what's happening though...

Maybe Mike Nolan won't be 100% in charge of the defense. Coming from Bill Belichick, McDaniels could instill a Patriots-esque defense.

The Patriots run a "Fairbanks-Bullough" 3-4 defense... basically the 2-gap 3-4 scheme where the dlineman take up both of the olineman's gaps. This type of defense is obviously much more on the conservative side than aggressive. However, it does create turnover's by confusing teams with disguises in coverages and such.

We'll need to start looking for more versatile Jack Will Mike and Sam's. 3-4 system's require extremely talented LB's to be competent. LB's that can blitz, pass rush, stop the run, and drop into coverage. LB's that can essentially play like elite d lineman or drop into coverage like Seymour or Harrison. Woodyard is the only player that can effectively drop into coverage and make tackles. His blitzing skills aren't too great, possibly because his size. It could be toned up with the right coaching, he definitely has the intensity.

We will see... I think as long as we get together a good staff it we can be successful regardless of what direction we go in.

BigPlayShay
01-11-2009, 10:12 PM
The 2008 Broncos defense was more like a Squint and Retreat scheme.

Broncoman13
01-11-2009, 10:14 PM
I could have done without reading that...

lex
01-11-2009, 10:14 PM
Mike Nolan will be a good change for the defense, but we definitely need to add some talent. He obviously runs a 3-4, and we don't exactly have all the pieces to a 3-4 right now.

Mike Nolan uses a "read and react" defense. It is what it sounds, forces players to read then react. When the Niners were running this, they missed many assignments and gave up huge plays. Some can possibly blame it on their lack of talent.

Some might be thinking, "well aren't all defenses essentially read and react?"

No. In contrast, let's take the Ravens defense for example. They are an aggressive attack defense. Eagles are an aggressive attack defense.

I hate to say this, but our defense for the 2008 season was a "read and react" system. Those who watched most of the games should have easily seen this. For those who didn't...



Nolan's system had worked with the Ravens from 01-04. He had major talent and a massive pass rush... thus making it a great scheme. Here an interesting article on it October 2008 before he was fired from the Niners.

Oy vay!

uplink
01-11-2009, 10:17 PM
Too bad, I was hoping the broncos would adopt an attacking defensive scheme next year.

Bronx33
01-11-2009, 10:19 PM
The 2008 Broncos defense was more like a Squint and Retreat scheme.


LMAO!

TheDave
01-11-2009, 10:20 PM
I could have done without reading that...

You and me both...

ludo21
01-11-2009, 10:22 PM
look on the bright side... 21at rank gets us in the playoffs this year.. haha

The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 10:25 PM
Oy vay!

I'm sure you would have been happy with my post.

However, I just wanted to inform the fans with what we were getting. The Ravens defense from 01-04 forced many turnovers. It's not like this guy doesn't have a good resume.

The Niners situation could have been different... I'm not sure.

All I know is, to run an effective defense you need a pass rush and some talent.

lex
01-11-2009, 10:27 PM
I'm sure you would have been happy with my post.

However, I just wanted to inform the fans with what we were getting. The Ravens defense from 01-04 forced many turnovers. It's not like this guy doesn't have a good resume.

The Niners situation could have been different... I'm not sure.

All I know is, to run an effective defense you need a pass rush and some talent.


The Ravens have had rock solid defensive personnel for many years going back to before Nolan was there.

(Jae)
01-11-2009, 10:36 PM
I could have gone without reading that
You and me both...

Me 3.......

http://i39.tinypic.com/28bsk6w.gif

Hallside
01-11-2009, 10:38 PM
The Titans have a mostly read and react style too.

The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 10:41 PM
The Ravens have had rock solid defensive personnel for many years going back to before Nolan was there.

Who knows what's happening though...

Maybe Mike Nolan won't be 100% in charge of the defense and what will happen. Coming from Bill Belichick, McDaniels could instill a Patriots-esque defense.

The Patriots run a "Fairbanks-Bullough" 3-4 defense... basically the 2-gap 3-4 scheme where the dlineman take up both of the olineman's gaps. This type of defense is obviously much more on the conservative side than aggressive. However, it does create turnover's.

We'll need to start looking for more versatile Jack Will Mike and Sam's. 3-4 system's require extremely talented LB's to be competent. LB's that can blitz, pass rush, stop the run, and drop into coverage. LB's that can essentially play like elite d lineman or drop into coverage like Seymour or Harrison.

We will see...

The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 10:45 PM
The Titans have a mostly read and react style too.

Yes they do. They are very aggressive and have a massive pass rush, which at the end of the day you will need.

Hallside
01-11-2009, 10:46 PM
Yes they do. They are very aggressive and have a massive pass rush, which at the end of the day you will need.

You think Nolan and Capers can deliver that?

PRBronco
01-11-2009, 10:56 PM
Who knows what's happening though...

Maybe Mike Nolan won't be 100% in charge of the defense and what will happen. Coming from Bill Belichick, McDaniels could instill a Patriots-esque defense.

The Patriots run a "Fairbanks-Bullough" 3-4 defense... basically the 2-gap 3-4 scheme where the dlineman take up both of the olineman's gaps. This type of defense is obviously much more on the conservative side than aggressive. However, it does create turnover's.

We'll need to start looking for more versatile Jack Will Mike and Sam's. 3-4 system's require extremely talented LB's to be competent. LB's that can blitz, pass rush, stop the run, and drop into coverage. LB's that can essentially play like elite d lineman or drop into coverage like Seymour or Harrison.

We will see...

What is a Jack?

Also will they settle for linebackers with neat hair and celebrations, and really good track skills?

Spider
01-11-2009, 10:57 PM
Unless you are blitzing Most defenses are a read and react .... the offense dictates what the defense does , it is up to the defense to decide what they give up ...... short underneath stuff , or play tight and take chances with forcing an offense to go deep ........in other words Nolan isnt big on blitzing or being aggressive , and with the people we got on Defense , this may not be a bad thing , Webster , made so many wrong reads and got out of position so much, his nickname should be loss .........

East
01-11-2009, 11:03 PM
Nolan over Capers any day.

Nolan could bring UFA Suggs into the new 3-4 scheme which would jumpstart the defense.

The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 11:04 PM
You think Nolan and Capers can deliver that?

I'm not sure to be honest. Usually you can feel energy on a certain topic. It was pretty easy to feel that McDaniels was getting hired. I know everyone could feel the energy before it happened.

With this, I'm not sure. It all depends on responsibilities and their goals. Like I said, Nolan might not have 100% on the defense. McDaniels should be calling the shots, so we'll have to see. I'd be psyched if we keep Dennison and Bates, as far as the offense is concerned.

We have experience coming from all angles, but from what it sounds like we might be going towards a more conservative defense, at this point in time at least.

BigPlayShay
01-11-2009, 11:04 PM
What is a Jack?


He plays in the box... Rimshot!

The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 11:05 PM
What is a Jack?

Also will they settle for linebackers with neat hair and celebrations, and really good track skills?

Jack - Outside weak side linebacker
Will - Middle weak side line backer
Mike - Middle strong side linebacker
Sam - Outside strong side linebacker

I'd settle with someone with "neat hair" like Polamolu.

The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 11:12 PM
Unless you are blitzing Most defenses are a read and react .... the offense dictates what the defense does , it is up to the defense to decide what they give up ...... short underneath stuff , or play tight and take chances with forcing an offense to go deep ........in other words Nolan isnt big on blitzing or being aggressive , and with the people we got on Defense , this may not be a bad thing , Webster , made so many wrong reads and got out of position so much, his nickname should be loss .........

Sure, generally, most defenses are read and react because that's essentially what you're always doing... however it's much more detailed than that. The read and react defenses of the Titans and Bears are different than what the Broncos were running. An attacking defense is can essentially be said to read and react, since you're seeing if it's a running play or passing play. I guess you can call it aggressive vs conservative.

The problem with the more conservative is that you sometimes might not get a pass rush, and it's easier to to miss assignments.

I would like to say that the Bears and Broncos were running similar schemes at times...

TheDave
01-11-2009, 11:12 PM
Found this on another site...

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy

Fairbanks - Bullough 3-4 defensive system

The New England Patriots run a modified base 3-4 Chuck Fairbanks (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Chuck-Fairbanks) - Hank Bullough (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Hank-Bullough) system<SUP class=reference id=_ref-9>[10] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-9)</SUP> installed by Bill Belichick. The term 3-4 means that their base formation consists of 3 defensive linemen (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Defensive-linemen) (defensive end, nose tackle, and defensive end), 4 linebackers (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Linebackers) (outside "Jack" weak side linebacker, middle "Will" weak side linebacker, middle "Mike" strong side linebacker, and outside "Sam" strong side linebacker), and 4 defensive backs (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Defensive-backs) (cornerback, free safety, strong safety, and cornerback)<SUP class=reference id=_ref-10>[11] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-10)</SUP>. In the Patriots system the inside linebackers are the "Will" and "Mike" linebackers<SUP class=reference id=_ref-11>[12] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-11)</SUP>. It is believed that this 3-4 structure gives the defense the greatest amount of flexibility because the linebackers are among the most versatile players on the defense, capable of doing any of the following: rushing the quarterback, tackling runners or dropping into coverage. By mixing the roles of their linebackers from play to play, the Patriots defense seeks to cause confusion on the part of opposing offenses. At times the Patriots will also shade their defensive linemen different ways, creating "over" or "under" defenses. "Over" and "under" defenses simply refer to the shift of the defensive linemen to the strong or weak side of the offense, respectively, and the rotation of the linebackers in the opposite direction. Chuck Fairbanks was a head coach for the National Football Leagues New England Patriots. ... Hank Bullough is a former head coach of the Buffalo Bills. ... A defensive lineman is any of the down positions on the defensive side of American football. ... A linebacker is a position in American and Canadian football. ... Defensive back (DB) is a player in American football whose role is primarily pass coverage; that is, the defensive back will stay near a receiver and try to deflect or intercept any passes thrown to him. ...

The "Fairbanks - Bullough" 3-4 system is known as a two gap system<SUP class=reference id=_ref-12>[13] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-12)</SUP>, because each of the defensive linemen are required to cover the gaps to both sides of the offensive lineman (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Offensive-lineman) that try to block them<SUP class=reference id=_ref-13>[14] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-13)</SUP>. Defensive linemen in this system tend to be stouter, as they need to be able to hold their place without being overwhelmed in order to allow the linebackers behind them to make plays<SUP class=reference id=_ref-14>[15] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-14)</SUP>. This is the reason that defensive linemen such as Richard Seymour (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Richard-Seymour) and Vince Wilfork (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Vince-Wilfork) do not always rack up gaudy sack and tackle statistics despite their critical importance to the team<SUP class=reference id=_ref-15>[16] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-15)</SUP>. An offensive lineman (football) is one of a group of positions in American football. ... Richard Vershaun Seymour (born October 6, 1979 in Gadsden, South Carolina) is an American football defensive lineman for the New England Patriots of the National Football League. ... Vincent Lamar Wilfork (born November 4, 1981 in Boynton Beach, Florida) is an American football defensive tackle who currently plays for the New England Patriots of the National Football League. ...

The system is at times more conservative than certain other defenses currently in vogue in the league<SUP class=reference id=_ref-16>[17] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-16)</SUP>, despite the constant threat of its potent linebacker blitz. The Patriots defensive system generally places an emphasis on physicality and discipline over mobility and risk taking and is sometimes characterized as a "bend but do not break defense"<SUP class=reference id=_ref-17>[18] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-17)</SUP>.

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History

The 3-4 defense was originally devised by Bud Wilkinson (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/) at the University of Oklahoma (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Oklahoma-Sooners#Football) in the late 1940s (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/1940s)<SUP class=reference id=_ref-18>[19] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-18)</SUP>. Former Patriots and Oklahoma coach Chuck Fairbanks is credited with being a major figure in first bringing the 3-4 defense to the NFL in 1974<SUP class=reference id=_ref-19>[20] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-19)</SUP>. Patriots defensive coordinator (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Defensive-coordinator) Hank Bullough (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Hank-Bullough) made significant further innovations to the system<SUP class=reference id=_ref-20>[21] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-20)</SUP>. Parcells was linebackers coach under Ron Erhardt as head coach of the Patriots in 1980 (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/1980-New-England-Patriots-season) (after Fairbanks left for Colorado in 1978 (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/1978-New-England-Patriots-season) and Bullough lost out on the head coaching position). When Parcells returned to the Giants as defensive coordinator under Ray Perkins in 1981 (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/1981), he brought the 3-4 defense with him. Charles Burnham Bud Wilkinson (April 23, 1916€“February 9, 1994) was an American football player, coach, and broadcaster. ... The University of Oklahoma features 17 varsity sports teams. ... The 1940s decade ran from 1940 to 1949. ... A defensive coordinator typically refers to a coach on a football team in the National Football League (or at other levels of American football) who is in charge of the defense. ... Hank Bullough is a former head coach of the Buffalo Bills. ... The New England Patriots finished the National Football Leagues 1980 season with a record of ten wins and six losses, and finished second in the AFC East division. ... The New England Patriots finished the National Football Leagues 1978 season with a record of eleven wins and five losses, and finished tied for first in the AFC East division. ... Year 1981 (MCMLXXXI) was a common year starting on Thursday (link displays the 1981 Gregorian calendar). ...

Bill Belichick was initially exposed to the 3-4 defense while working as an assistant under Red Miller (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Red-Miller), head coach of the Denver Broncos (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Denver-Broncos) and a former Patriots offensive coordinator under Fairbanks. Joe Collier was the defensive coordinator under Red Miller at the time<SUP class=reference id=_ref-21>[22] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-21)</SUP>, and his orange crush defense (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Orange-Crush-Defense) was very successful at stifling opposing offenses. The Broncos had decided to adopt the 3-4 in 1977 (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/1977). Bill Belichick subsequently refined his understanding of the 3-4 as a linebackers coach and defensive coordinator under Parcells with the Giants. Belichick returned the 3-4 defense back to New England when he become coach of the team in 2000<SUP class=reference id=_ref-22>[23] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-22)</SUP>. Romeo Crennel (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Romeo-Crennel) subsequently became defensive coordinator for the team. Robert Red Miller was a professional football coach with the the Denver Broncos. ... City Denver, Colorado Other nicknames Orange Crush (1977-1979 defense) Team colors Orange, Broncos Navy Blue, and White[1] Head Coach Mike Shanahan Owner Pat Bowlen General manager Ted Sundquist Mascot Miles League/Conference affiliations American Football League (1960-1969) Western Division (1960-1969) National Football League (1970€“present) American... Orange Crush Defense was the defense of the Denver Broncos during the 1970s. ... Also: 1977 (album) by Ash. ... Romeo Crennel (born June 18, 1947 in Lynchburg, Virginia) has been the head coach of the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League since February 8, 2005. ...


Other teams running similar defensive systems

Bill Parcells ran the Fairbanks - Bullough 3-4 defensive system during his coaching years<SUP class=reference id=_ref-23>[24] (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/)</SUP>. Many teams coached by members of the Parcells - Belichick coaching tree currently run similar defensive systems, such as the University of Alabama (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/University-of-Alabama) under Nick Saban (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Nick-Saban), the New York Jets (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-York-Jets) under Eric Mangini (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Eric-Mangini) and the Cleveland Browns (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Cleveland-Browns) under Romeo Crennel (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Romeo-Crennel). The University of Alabama (also known as Alabama, UA or colloquially as Bama) is a public coeducational university located in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA. Founded in 1831, UA is the flagship campus of the University of Alabama System. ... Nicholas Lou Saban (born October 31, 1951 in Fairmont, West Virginia) is an American college football coach and the current head coach of the Alabama Crimson Tide. ... City East Rutherford, New Jersey Other nicknames Gang Green, the Green and White, Jersey Jets Team colors Hunter green and white Head Coach Eric Mangini Owner Woody Johnson General manager Mike Tannenbaum League/Conference affiliations American Football League (1960-1969) Eastern Division (1960-1969) National Football League (1970€“present) American... Eric Mangini (born January 19, 1971 in Hartford, Connecticut) is the current head coach of the New York Jets of the NFL. At the age of 35, he was the youngest head coach in the NFL, as well as the youngest coach in the four major North American sports, including... Browns redirects here. ... Romeo Crennel (born June 18, 1947 in Lynchburg, Virginia) has been the head coach of the Cleveland Browns of the National Football League since February 8, 2005. ...


Comparison to other 3-4 systems

The "Phillips 3-4", a one-gap version of the 3-4, was also brought into the league by [URL="http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Bum-Phillips"]Bum Phillips (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/), head coach of the Houston Oilers (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Houston-Oilers#Houston-Oilers-Era-.281960_96.29) in the 1970s. The Phillips 3-4 defense is currently run by the San Diego Chargers as well as the Dallas Cowboys (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Dallas-Cowboys) now being coached by Wade Phillips (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Wade-Phillips), the son of Bum Phillips. Wade Phillips replaced Joe Collier as defensive coordinator of the Denver Broncos in 1989 (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/1989). The modern Phillips 3-4 is largely a one gap 3-4 system, meaning that the defensive linemen are often only responsible for one gap between the offensive linemen<SUP class=reference id=_ref-24>[25] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-24)</SUP>. The linemen can afford to be more aggressive because they receive more support from the linebackers in performing their roles. This system generally prefers relatively lighter, more agile lineman better able to perform aggressive slants, loops and gap charges in order to directly attempt to sack the quarterback and make tackles<SUP class=reference id=_ref-25>[26] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-25)</SUP>. Oail Andrew Bum Phillips (born on September 29, 1923 in Nederland, Texas or Orange, Texas) is a former National Football League (NFL) head coach. ... City New Orleans, Louisiana Team colors Old Gold, Black, and White Head Coach Sean Payton Owner Tom Benson General manager Mickey Loomis Mascot Gumbo League/Conference affiliations National Football League (1967€“present) Eastern Conference (1967-1969) Capitol Division (1967; 1969) Century Division (1968) National Football Conference (1970-present) NFC West... City Irving, Texas Other nicknames Americas Team, The Boys Team colors White, Silver, Silver-Green, Royal Blue, Navy Blue Head Coach Wade Phillips Owner Jerry Jones General manager Jerry Jones League/Conference affiliations National Football League (1960€“present) Eastern Conference (1960-1969) Capitol Division (1967-1969) National Football Conference... Wade Phillips (born June 21, 1947 in Orange, Texas) is the current head coach for the National Football Leagues Dallas Cowboys. ... Year 1989 (MCMLXXXIX) was a common year starting on Sunday (link displays 1989 Gregorian calendar). ...

The 3-4 zone blitz (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Zone-blitz) defense was developed by Dick LeBeau (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Dick-LeBeau) as defensive coordinator of the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Pittsburgh-Steelers). It commonly calls upon linemen to be mobile enough to drop back into zone coverage in place of blitzing linebackers<SUP class=reference id=_ref-26>[27] (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy#_note-26)</SUP>. Elements of the 3-4 zone blitz defense have been incorporated over time into the modern Phillips 3-4. The Zone Blitz is a common method of defensive pressure applied in American football, usually at the collegiate and professional levels. ... Richard Dick LeBeau is a former football player and is presently the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive coordinator. ... Steelers redirects here. ...

Spider
01-11-2009, 11:16 PM
Sure, generally, most defenses are read and react because that's essentially what you're always doing... however it's much more detailed than that. The read and react defenses of the Titans and Bears are different than what the Broncos were running.

I would like to say that the Bears and Broncos were running similar schemes at times...

dont need to complicate this into something more , as I said it is up to the D as what they give up to the offense , but it all boils down to beating the man in front of you , Broncos for the most part ran a very soft zone , mainly cause our front 7 couldnt read a Dr Seuss book with out help , much less PAP , or the POA , we got lucky a few times , but Webster was all out of sorts .......
so in essence we gave a real soft underneath ......Bears with Urlacher didnt have to .........

Spider
01-11-2009, 11:18 PM
Elements of the 3-4 zone blitz defense have been incorporated over time into the modern Phillips 3-4. The Zone Blitz is a common method of defensive pressure applied in American football, usually at the collegiate and professional levels. ... Richard Dick LeBeau is a former football player and is presently the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive coordinator. ... Steelers redirects here. ...

aka the Zone dog blitz of dom Capers of a 4-3 D .....

SonOfLe-loLang
01-11-2009, 11:18 PM
Capers was the D-coordinator of the steelers in the mid 90's right? He had that crazy blitzing D then.

yerner
01-11-2009, 11:22 PM
I'm pretty pessimistic on Nolan changing to a 3-4. Not cause I care about the 4-3 or anything, but just because it seems like its going to be another overhaul of the entire defense. Again. Not that it doesn't need it, but I just don't want to have to wait another 3 years.

Spider
01-11-2009, 11:22 PM
Capers was the D-coordinator of the steelers in the mid 90's right? He had that crazy blitzing D then.

:thumbs: yeah but that Zone blitz he came up with took offenses off guard , offenses finally caught up , but that zone blitz of his is what Steelers run now out of a 3-4

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2009, 11:29 PM
So in a few hours we go from hearing it's an aggressive attack style defense to more of the same read and react stuff. I can't say this pleases me.

lookin' glass
01-11-2009, 11:33 PM
You think Nolan and Capers can deliver that?
No. Nolan's time in SF is a lot like the Wash/Snyder story. With Norv as OC the Niners did ok, Alex Smith looked better. When Norv left Nolan installed Jim Hostler as OC. Jim Hostler OC = Bob Slowik DC. Smith was battered due to play calling and strategy and Nolan virtually shunned him. I don't know if Alex Smith would have ever amounted to anything but Norv got a lot out of him and the Niners were viewed as 'on the rise'. Vernon Davis used to get away with stuff under Nolan until Singletary became HC put a stop to it. The same Niner team played better under Singletary than Nolan.
Is he a better DC than HC, probably but I think the Raven defensive players and their style made Nolan look better. His defenses in SF, the ones he actually built, offered little in the way innovation or adaptation. They were just a defense. Better than Slowik, yes. Is that saying much?

The MVPlaya
01-11-2009, 11:34 PM
So in a few hours we go from hearing it's an aggressive attack style defense to more of the same read and react stuff. I can't say this pleases me.

We're not sure, obviously.

I'm just stating what Nolan ran in San Francisco, and what McDaniels had running in New England. Dom Capers and Nolan have both ran "aggressive attacks" in their careers.

We will have to see. Our personnel can't run an aggressive defense as we currently have it. We'd run and fall down to every single offensive line in the league. I can honestly say, at 110% honesty... if we played 11 guys on defense vs 10 or even 9 guys on offense we'd still get ****in owned (last season). :rofl:

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2009, 11:45 PM
We're not sure, obviously.

I'm just stating what Nolan ran in San Francisco, and what McDaniels had running in New England. Dom Capers and Nolan have both ran "aggressive attacks" in their careers.

We will have to see. Our personnel can't run an aggressive defense as we currently have it. We'd run and fall down to every single offensive line in the league. I can honestly say, at 110% honesty... if we played 11 guys on defense vs 10 or even 9 guys on offense we'd still get ****in owned (last season). :rofl:
I actually see it the other way around. I think pressure defenses in almost any sport can cover up weakness in talent. Nothing is worse than watching your team get sliced and diced down the field drive after drive when they're sitting back there in a passive, prevent style zone and waiting for things to happen. If it's talent we need to run that style, then lets go find it, but God Allmighty I'm tired of watching Denver's soft, finesse style D that never hits anyone and never attacks. After reading this I really wish we were getting the dude from Philly instead.

Spider
01-11-2009, 11:51 PM
I actually see it the other way around. I think pressure defenses in almost any sport can cover up weakness in talent. Nothing is worse than watching your team get sliced and diced down the field drive after drive when they're sitting back there in a passive, prevent style zone and waiting for things to happen. If it's talent we need to run that style, then lets go find it, but God Allmighty I'm tired of watching Denver's soft, finesse style D that never hits anyone and never attacks. After reading this I really wish we were getting the dude from Philly instead. have you seen our D ? they would be helter skelter , A simple Iso play would be a 85 yard TD play that quick ........

BroncoBuff
01-11-2009, 11:51 PM
after the 1999 season, when his defense finished at the bottom of the league, Nolan was fired.
NOOOO!

footstepsfrom#27
01-11-2009, 11:59 PM
have you seen our D ? they would be helter skelter , A simple Iso play would be a 85 yard TD play that quick ........
We've been giving that up anyway. Why not at least mix in a sack now and then just to see if maybe we can stop a drive here or there for fun? I just fear this is going to be more of the same...hope I'm wrong.

Anaximines
01-12-2009, 12:06 AM
Maybe if Nolan doesn't have all of the HC tasks on his mind he can do a good job on our defense.

The MVPlaya
01-12-2009, 12:08 AM
We've been giving that up anyway. Why not at least mix in a sack now and then just to see if maybe we can stop a drive here or there for fun? I just fear this is going to be more of the same...hope I'm wrong.

I'm not sure we're on the same page. Our personnel and coaching from last season... we ran ALL OUT BLITZ'S and got 0 pressure. Every single one of our players were held at the line of scrimmage more often than not. We could not generate any sort of pressure by doing all out bltiz's! It was horrific to watch. I wish I was exaggerating like a biased fan, but I'm not. It was THAT bad.

I am not joking, whether we all out blitzed or ran 3 guys, it was nearly the same the majority of the time.

BroncoBuff
01-12-2009, 12:12 AM
We rarely blitzed this season - rarely.

The first half against Buffalo was an exception, and it was great ... but then we stopped blitzing completely and lost.

UberBroncoMan
01-12-2009, 01:23 AM
Me 3.......

http://i39.tinypic.com/28bsk6w.gif

Me 400 :(

Spider
01-12-2009, 01:37 AM
We've been giving that up anyway. Why not at least mix in a sack now and then just to see if maybe we can stop a drive here or there for fun? I just fear this is going to be more of the same...hope I'm wrong.

if anything we ran a bend dont break D then stiffin up in the redzone , if anything we did better when our back ups were in ......... aggression and pressure dont do you any good if you cant maintain , your responsibilities

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 01:42 AM
if anything we ran a bend dont break D then stiffin up in the redzone , if anything we did better when our back ups were in ......... aggression and pressure dont do you any good if you cant maintain , your responsibilities
It looked more like a bend AND break to me. My point is...can we get some aggressive defense going here instead of this 10 yards off the ball crap?

I really wanted that Philly D-back coach...I guess I'll reserve judgement till I see what the story is but if it's more of the same I'll be pissed.

yavoon
01-12-2009, 01:54 AM
I actually see it the other way around. I think pressure defenses in almost any sport can cover up weakness in talent. Nothing is worse than watching your team get sliced and diced down the field drive after drive when they're sitting back there in a passive, prevent style zone and waiting for things to happen. If it's talent we need to run that style, then lets go find it, but God Allmighty I'm tired of watching Denver's soft, finesse style D that never hits anyone and never attacks. After reading this I really wish we were getting the dude from Philly instead.

pressure defenses w/o talent just die fast instead of slow. fans seem to think they like that more, I have my doubts. If you look at all the good qb's in the league their ratings against the blitz tend to be astronomical.

Spider
01-12-2009, 01:54 AM
It looked more like a bend AND break to me. My point is...can we get some aggressive defense going here instead of this 10 yards off the ball crap?

I really wanted that Philly D-back coach...I guess I'll reserve judgement till I see what the story is but if it's more of the same I'll be pissed.

you really think that our D wanted to give 10 yard cushions?
they gave those 10 yard cushions for a reason ........if you dont have it up front , then you have to bait the QB into mistakes and to do that , you have to keep big plays to a minimum,make an offense drive , it didnt work , but it beat the hell out of any other plan ........ you work with what you got , we didnt have the personnel up front ........ and until that changes no coach is going to tighten the gap ......

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 02:06 AM
you really think that our D wanted to give 10 yard cushions?
they gave those 10 yard cushions for a reason ........if you dont have it up front , then you have to bait the QB into mistakes and to do that , you have to keep big plays to a minimum,make an offense drive , it didnt work , but it beat the hell out of any other plan ........ you work with what you got , we didnt have the personnel up front ........ and until that changes no coach is going to tighten the gap ......
It's not just last year. We haven't seen a truly aggresive D in this town in a long time, certainly not one that played physical lights out hitting. Regardless of scheme, we need to see that again.

footstepsfrom#27
01-12-2009, 02:08 AM
pressure defenses w/o talent just die fast instead of slow. fans seem to think they like that more, I have my doubts. If you look at all the good qb's in the league their ratings against the blitz tend to be astronomical.
Even the bad ones looked great against us. I hope Nolan and Capers are in the film room right now watching that horror show.

The MVPlaya
01-12-2009, 02:33 AM
Get me the Arizona D-backs coach...

watermock
01-12-2009, 02:42 AM
Read and react=flat footed

fontaine
01-12-2009, 03:42 AM
First of all, it doesn't matter if it's blitz heavy, 3-4, 4-3, cover 2, whatever.

Nolan said one thing and one thing only that rules the day in the nfl:
At the same time, it's personnel and what you draft people to come in and do.

I could care less if we run a scheme called "Ostrich: Bury your head in the sand" as long as we draft and bring in the right personnel.

Both Nolan and McDaniels are known for having a good eye for talent evaluation and that's what we need RIGHT NOW.

If you go back the last ten years in this franchise we've run practically EVERY scheme in the book including the 3-4 at numerous times all full of fail because either we couldn't restock the front 7 or we didn't have those players originally to begin with.

As far as I'm concerned Capers/Nolan are just another Jim Bates experiment ready to go wrong unless the FO manages to turn around a decade of futility when it comes to bringing in real Defensive talent consistently.

summerdenver
01-12-2009, 04:11 AM
This article sounds terrible. Are we going to get slowik version 2with Nolan?

cutthemdown
01-12-2009, 04:18 AM
To the people still complaining our corners played 10 yrds off did you watch how often Pitt CB dropped way back in over coverage today? Why because they play the SS in the box a lot and when you do that you have you.

What happened in Denver was too much time for QB, and the linebackers and safety's missing tons of tackles when QB threw in front of the defense. Broncos time and time again would give up 5-7 yrds after the catch. Pitt comes up and sticks those plays for a short gain.

lex
01-12-2009, 04:46 AM
Nice work, Pat.

Drek
01-12-2009, 07:20 AM
I don't know why people take local hatchet job stories so seriously.

Did his defenses statistically fail to produce? Sure did, but a lot of that goes on the offense for not being able to produce anything resembling a sustained drive.

Did he suck as a HC? Yep. But we aren't hiring him to do that. He also sucked as a GM, we aren't hiring that either.

He's a very knowledgeable DC in the 3-4 system who has done some great things with the front seven pretty much wherever he's been allowed to do his thing. Hell, his first position of significant influence was working under Joe Collier teaching LBs. He did some great things just recently with Patrick Willis and was developing some ok talent from basically thin air on their DL.

I'd hate it if he was the HC, but he's a damn good DC choice and if we're bringing Capers along to help work with the secondary and team up on the week to week scheme I can't see its anything but a good thing for this organization.

'Bout damn time we got back to the 3-4.

socalorado
01-12-2009, 07:38 AM
Jack - Wesley Woodyard
Will - DJ Williams
Mike - Rey Maualuga
Sam - Terrel Suggs

FS- OJ Atogwe
SS-Josh Barrett
So DEN aquires two FA's, and they draft a LB in the 1st round.
DEN would then have to trade away Jarvis Moss and Elvis Dumervil, but they would only help to get more draft picks, which DEN could parlay into a high pick in the, say, 2nd round.
DEN would still need another NT. I know Robertson played NT in NY, but i donr see him dominating.

lex
01-12-2009, 07:41 AM
If theyre going to go with "read and react" why did they even bother interviewing Spagnola? This just goes to show what a charlie foxtrot this has been and that Glenfiddich Bowlen was flying by the seat of his pants when firing Shanahan. This organization has no vision. Absolutely rudderless.

Gort
01-12-2009, 07:42 AM
He plays in the box... Rimshot!

http://instantrimshot.com

theAPAOps5
01-12-2009, 07:43 AM
I love it that since Retard Lex thinks this is horrid the team has no direction. I wish the whiney little bitch would just go away.

Rohirrim
01-12-2009, 07:54 AM
This was an interesting sentence in the Wiki write-up for Mike Nolan: Nolan's strongest roots are in the Dan Reeves Coaching tree. Hilarious!

Anyway, he's from Oregon. Maybe that gives us a better shot at bringin in Unger. As far as D goes, we're only three spots off the bottom anyway. If he moves us up to the 20th rated D, it's an improvement. So, we've got that going for us. ;D

fontaine
01-12-2009, 08:23 AM
If theyre going to go with "read and react" why did they even bother interviewing Spagnola? This just goes to show what a charlie foxtrot this has been and that Glenfiddich Bowlen was flying by the seat of his pants when firing Shanahan. This organization has no vision. Absolutely rudderless.

I disaprove of everything but the Glenfiddich part in this post.

:rofl:

supermanhr9
01-12-2009, 08:50 AM
Great post, I am pumped for Nolan. I remember when he got canned from the Niners, just abtou every analysist had a problem with it and went above and beyond defending his reputation blaming San Fran for the lack of success ratehr than Nolan. I wonder if he'll sport his full suit as a DC?

rastaman
01-12-2009, 09:38 AM
You think Nolan and Capers can deliver that?

If they can manage to coach up Crowder and Moss and Bowlen opening up his wallet to hotly purse Terrell Suggs and Bart Scottduring FA, sure they can deliver.:thumbsup:

supermanhr9
01-12-2009, 09:42 AM
Those are good LB's to pick up, but what about our pick? we go safety then I spose.

chaz
01-12-2009, 10:05 AM
What is Capers system like? just for comparison...are they similar? wondering if pairing them makes sense or not.

gadlaw
01-12-2009, 10:10 AM
Humm, the 3-4 - Sortof reminiscent of the 1977 Denver Bronco Orange Crush Defense, also a 3-4 Defense. Tom Jackson, Randy Gradishar, Lyle Alzado, .....

Riddi
01-12-2009, 10:13 AM
The 2008 Broncos defense was more like a Squint and Retreat scheme.


Thats the funniest thing I have read all day...thanks buddy:rofl:

Riddi
01-12-2009, 10:31 AM
The bottom line is this. It doesn't matter who our DC is, until we improve our overall talent level on defense any DC will struggle.

pink_feet
01-12-2009, 10:44 AM
I could have done without reading that...


Mike Nolan as Defensive Coordinator*:
(*ranking based on yards per game, so there may be a 1 or 2 spot variation compared to the standard "total yards" ranking)

1993: NY Giants (5th ranked defense)
1994: NY Giants (11th ranked defense)
1995: NY Giants (17th ranked defense)
1996: NY Giants (14th ranked defense)

Not a good trend. But, hey, at least he made some progress in that final year.

1997: Washingon (16th ranked defense)
1998: Washington (24th ranked defense)
1999: Washington (30th ranked defense)

Ouch.

2000: NY Jets (10th ranked defense)

Not much to say here, since he was only there a year. But...

2001: Baltimore (receivers' coach)

Then Marvin Lewis took off and Nolan lucked into the easiest job ever, taking over a D that had been at the top of the league over the previous three seasons. Although it was a little rough that first year.

2002: Baltimore (22nd ranked defense)
2003: Baltimore (3rd ranked defense)
2004: Baltimore (6th ranked defense)

Then he went to the 49'ers. Their defenses, BTW:

2005: 49'ers (32nd ranked defense)
2006: 49'ers (26th ranked defense)
2007: 49'ers (25th ranked defense)

Well, it'd be hard to decline from 32nd.

supermanhr9
01-12-2009, 02:13 PM
oh crap, i thought he was better than this

elsid13
01-12-2009, 02:17 PM
I talked to some Raven fans today, just as passionate about thier team as we are about ours. Lots of eye rolling when I mention Nolans name as DC. But remember Nolan ran a 4/3 a couple of years in both NYG and BALT before he moved to the 3/4

McLuvin
01-12-2009, 02:17 PM
This will not be the same defense that was ran in san fran.

Mike Nolan did not call weak non aggresive defenses in baltimore!