Why is Jarvis Moss underachieving?

[Florida_Bronco]

There is no denying the immense amount of physical ability that Jarvis has, but there is also no denying that Denver has failed to develop any substantial talent on the defensive line since Jacob Burney has been coaching them.

Mediator has been very vocal about his displeasure with Burney, and just the other day Montrose talked about how at camp, he would witness Burney yell and scream at Jarvis but never actually teach him how to do anything.

So I'm wondering what you guys think. Do you think coaching is holding back Jarvis, or is it something to do with Jarvis himself? For the record, I'm going with poor coaching.

[Inkana7]

He's only ever been taught the bullrush and is never stunted, twisted or anything remotely creative to get him working on someone other than a tackle.

[MVP-06]

to much talent to be this big of a flop

[BroncoBuff]

Problems (plural) include: Long time crazy staph infection + trying to gain big weight + adapting to the NFL + stress of expectations.

He could still become a decent player.

[JCMElway]

Where is the both option?

[Florida_Bronco]

True Buff, I forgot about his health problems. That being said, I think at this point in time he has, or is close to overcoming that and now it's more a lack of coaching that is holding him back.

[DB-Freak]

Or he's just a bust.

[Florida_Bronco]

Where is the both option?

The question is which do you feel is most responsible. ;D

[Florida_Bronco]

Or he's just a bust.

There would be a reason for that though. Players don't just bust for no reason.

[Tombstone RJ]

let spagz have a shot at coaching him...

[go_broncos]

It is Mike's fault to draft him in the first place..

[Florida_Bronco]

It is Mike's fault to draft him in the first place..

And why is that? If we hadn't drafted him, someone else would have, probably just a few short picks later.

[DB-Freak]

There would be a reason for that though. Players don't just bust for no reason.

Because he just doesnt have what it takes?

Who knows?

[DBBBSBS]

mike reached out for him, that draft we should have moved down.. but thanks to mike's bad drafting in defense he gave us a bad player and lost a pick as well. but with proper coaching this guy might do better.. but still he was a reach at the draft

[Florida_Bronco]

Because he just doesnt have what it takes? That is way too simplistic of an answer and could mean almost anything.

Who knows? Clearly, that's what we are trying to figure out. :thumbs:

[DB-Freak]

That is way too simplistic of an answer and could mean almost anything.

Clearly, that's what we are trying to figure out. :thumbs:

Ironically, you'll never figure it out with this thread.

[Florida_Bronco]

but still he was a reach at the draft

Was he really? If I recall, most mocks had him going right in the range we picked him at.

[Florida_Bronco]

Ironically, you'll never figure it out with this thread.

Maybe not definitely, but we can sure get some enlightening conversation and maybe even some inside info. With that, I think we can come to a pretty good conclusion.

[spdirty]

I wonder if the trade for Justin Tuck had happened and Al not failed his physical, how would Tuck be doing right now?

[Ratboy]

coaching.

If we had the right coach, Jarvis Moss would excel. If we bring in Spagmuolo, he'll go off, imo.

[DB-Freak]

Maybe not definitely, but we can sure get some enlightening conversation and maybe even some inside info. With that, I think we can come to a pretty good conclusion.

Mane for DC then.

[Florida_Bronco]

coaching.

If we had the right coach, Jarvis Moss would excel. If we bring in Spagmuolo, he'll go off, imo.

That's what I'm thinking.

[BroncoMan4ever]

i am going to say no talent combined with bad coaching.

[Garcia Bronco]

He's only ever been taught the bullrush and is never stunted, twisted or anything remotely creative to get him working on someone other than a tackle.

And yet at times he was still able to get some pressure. I think he's going to be fine in a new world.

[Garcia Bronco]

I wonder if the trade for Justin Tuck had happened and Al not failed his physical, how would Tuck be doing right now?

I think if Al Wilson could play without an injury he'd still be here.

[Florida_Bronco]

i am going to say no talent combined with bad coaching.

But he does have talent. Loads of talent to be exact.

[Br0nc0Buster]

I think both.
I think he was the product of an insane line at Florida.
It is hard to say it is a lack of coaching when he never gets any sacks at all.

I think he would be much better if he were allowed to play in an attacking system that took advantage of his strengths, but I am concerned that he will just be an average player in this league.

[AbileneBroncoFan]

Both. He's quite the athlete who is not being used properly in Slowick's disgrace of a scheme (can something with no apparent structure or plan of attack really be called a defensive scheme?), but he also is not motivated imo. We need someone such as a Spagnuolo to light a fire on his hind parts and squeeze every ounce of potential out of him.

[Dedhed]

I think it's a combination of things. He was drafted for a different system, and he hasn't been coached, or been adequately adapted, to fit the current (08) system.

[Florida_Bronco]

Both. He's quite the athlete who is not being used properly in Slowick's disgrace of a scheme (can something with no apparent structure or plan of attack really be called a defensive scheme?), but he also is not motivated imo. We need someone such as a Spagnuolo to light a fire on his hind parts and squeeze every ounce of potential out of him.

Where do you get the idea that he is not motivated?

[AbileneBroncoFan]

Let me rephrase myself. He is not motivated enough. I don't think anyone on the defense was. Defense is about pride, unity, and tenacity. I did not see that on our defense this year, and that is a reflection of the defensive coordinator. A coach that demands excellence will motivate guys to play harder, faster, and longer than a guy that just goes about his business. We need someone that will be a little more demanding of our defense. We had the worst NFL defense I've seen this year. The SD game was completely embarrassing. I do not know how we won 8 games with that pathetic excuse of a defense.

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't know about that. I'm sure there was a lack of motivation with some players but we know for sure that they were confused with Slowik's complicated and changing schemes and I think that confusion and hesitation could be mistaken as lack of motivation.

[BroncoMan4ever]

But he does have talent. Loads of talent to be exact.

he has potential, with his body type and speed. but until he gains the desire to work on getting bigger and stronger and work on what he needs to do to become good, he is always going to be looked at as a bust.

i have never been high on him because i thought he was a guy who had 1 good year of football in college and we gave up a lot to get him in the 1st round.

if he turns the corner i will gladly eat my words about him, but i am not holding my breath.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Where do you get the idea that he is not motivated?

he has a ton of potential if only he would work on it. he has no desire, he is the kind of guy who skated by for 1 good year in college without much work and got picked in the 1st round and just assumed he would be able to skate by in the pros. until he realizes he needs to work and gains the desire to put in the work, he will be considered a bust.

[McLuvin]

Horrible coaching and hes not strong enough yet.

[Florida_Bronco]

he has potential, with his body type and speed. but until he gains the desire to work on getting bigger and stronger and work on what he needs to do to become good, he is always going to be looked at as a bust. Again, where do we get off questioning his desire? ??? If nothing else, all the reports out of Denver talked about how hard he worked to put on the weight he did.

[Florida_Bronco]

he has a ton of potential if only he would work on it. he has no desire, he is the kind of guy who skated by for 1 good year in college without much work and got picked in the 1st round and just assumed he would be able to skate by in the pros. until he realizes he needs to work and gains the desire to put in the work, he will be considered a bust.

See my above post. I have seen nothing to indicate a lack of desire or motivation on his part. If you have something that shows otherwise, please post it.

[AbileneBroncoFan]

The Dallas media also gushed last year about how good of a team player TO was. I agree Jarvis is not the only one at fault here, but there had to have been a reason that John Engelberger saw more playing time than Jarvis Moss this year. Hopefully, we will be laughing about this conversation at this time next year, as that will mean that the new HC or DC got the job done and Jarvis developed into a quality starter for us.

[McLuvin]

Again, where do we get off questioning his desire? ??? If nothing else, all the reports out of Denver talked about how hard he worked to put on the weight he did.

Yes hes putting on weight, But he could only put on so much after rehabbing. Jarvis Moss will be just fine with a off season being healthy and great strenght and conditioning. He simply need to get stronger and be coached up.

He only has one pass rushing move....As does most of our DL other than Ekuban, It all goes to show you how horrible the defensive staff is.

[McLuvin]

The Dallas media also gushed last year about how good of a team player TO was. I agree Jarvis is not the only one at fault here, but there had to have been a reason that John Engelberger saw more playing time than Jarvis Moss this year. Hopefully, we will be laughing about this conversation at this time next year, as that will mean that the new HC or DC got the job done and Jarvis developed into a quality starter for us.

Actually the 2nd half of the year Jarvis Moss played ALOT, Alot more than Engelberger.

[SBboundBroncos]

honestly . . . i dont know why people think he is sooo talented, sorry i just dont see it

245 pounds on a 6-6 frame benched 225 ONLY 13 times
ran a 4.7 40 yard dash . . . about the same as anthony spencer, and tim crowder yet is "supposedly" a guy known for speed

sorry but he is skinny, weak, and not all that fast . . . IMO he sucks, have said so since before the draft and will keep saying it until he shows at least something, he also really didnt have that great of a college career other than the NC game where he went unblocked on all his sacks i believe

[DBBBSBS]

Was he really? If I recall, most mocks had him going right in the range we picked him at.

so did he deserve is my question, to go as high as he went.. and that draft we wasted picks for all the d talent.. and nothing panned out. we wasted 2 other picks on this idiot.. for what it is worth.

check the talent that was on board and what we could have picked by checking your mocks with the position we were at.. and we had a chance to go back and get almost a similar player.. who was ranked talnt wise.

[spdirty]

I think if Al Wilson could play without an injury he'd still be here.

your missing the point, so let me rephrase. Had we drafted Justin Tuck would he be the player he currently is right now?

[Florida_Bronco]

honestly . . . i dont know why people think he is sooo talented, sorry i just dont see it

245 pounds on a 6-6 frame benched 225 ONLY 13 times
ran a 4.7 40 yard dash . . . about the same as anthony spencer, and tim crowder yet is "supposedly" a guy known for speed

sorry but he is skinny, weak, and not all that fast . . . IMO he sucks, have said so since before the draft and will keep saying it until he shows at least something, he also really didnt have that great of a college career other than the NC game where he went unblocked on all his sacks i believe

Remember, he was still suffering from that staph infection and was not at full speed.

The guy has tons of talent, evidenced by why he was so highly coveted in the draft.

[rugbythug]

I think he has the same thing Crowder, and Thomas Have. DENVERDLITIS

[Atlas]

There is no denying the immense amount of physical ability that Jarvis has, but there is also no denying that Denver has failed to develop any substantial talent on the defensive line since Jacob Burney has been coaching them.

Mediator has been very vocal about his displeasure with Burney, and just the other day Montrose talked about how at camp, he would witness Burney yell and scream at Jarvis but never actually teach him how to do anything.

So I'm wondering what you guys think. Do you think coaching is holding back Jarvis, or is it something to do with Jarvis himself? For the record, I'm going with poor coaching.

Who said he is underachieving? Maybe he is playing to the best of his abilities.

[2KBack]

honestly . . . i dont know why people think he is sooo talented, sorry i just dont see it

245 pounds on a 6-6 frame benched 225 ONLY 13 times
ran a 4.7 40 yard dash . . . about the same as anthony spencer, and tim crowder yet is "supposedly" a guy known for speed

sorry but he is skinny, weak, and not all that fast . . . IMO he sucks, have said so since before the draft and will keep saying it until he shows at least something, he also really didnt have that great of a college career other than the NC game where he went unblocked on all his sacks i believe

the QB isn't 40 yards away

[montrose]

Funny thing is, the other two defensive guys we were eyeing in the 1st round haven't been much more productive - Lawrence Timmons and Justin Harrell.

I wonder if the trade for Justin Tuck had happened and Al not failed his physical, how would Tuck be doing right now?

Tuck would've never became the player he is today. Not by a longshot.

[tsiguy96]

you can NEVER say someone is a bust until they have been properly taught how to play

[SBboundBroncos]

the QB isn't 40 yards away

I dont care and honestly if thats the best argument you can give me . . . . well ill just say its pretty weak

[BroncoMan4ever]

your missing the point, so let me rephrase. Had we drafted Justin Tuck would he be the player he currently is right now?

i don't think so. part of the reason that the Giants DL is so talented isn't because they always pick the best player in the draft, it is because they are coached really well. technique and training that our Defensive coaches don't even know exists they are teaching their picks, which is another reason I want Spags as our HC and a lot of his defensive assistants brought over with him.

so even had we gotten Tuck, there is no chance in hell he is anywhere as good as he is now.

[Florida_Bronco]

I dont care and honestly if thats the best argument you can give me . . . . well ill just say its pretty weak

Actually, it's a very valid point. For defensive linemen, short area burst is much more important than 40 times.

[BroncoMan4ever]

I think he has the same thing Crowder, and Thomas Have. DENVERDLITIS

actually Thomas has been a solid DT for us. he is a penetrating DT but Slowik's scheme had him just holding up the play for LB's and DE's instead of going and making plays.

[Hallside]

...poor coaching. And add poor scheming by Slowit too.

[Rock Chalk]

There is a pattern here.

Look we've been through what, 25 or so defensive linemen in like 7 years. Not one of them...not a single one of them has been a dominant defensive lineman.

I dont care how bad you suck at drafting, odds are pretty ****ing good you would have got at least ONE dominant lineman in that time through the draft or FA. Either the organization is the worst ot evaluating defensive talent in the history of any sport ever, or the coaching is ****ing horrendous.

I tend to lean towards the latter instead of the former. Defensive evaluation may not be that great but the odds that it is that bad are too high IMO.

Jarvis has a ton of talent, and I think if we had better coaches they could get a lot more out of him. Crowder too. Crowder I see as an Ekuban type. A solid rotational guy that will hold his ground and occassionally dump a QB. Right now he cant get on the field but there is no denying he has the ability as well.

Burney must absolutely go. He ****ing sucks.

[SBboundBroncos]

Actually, it's a very valid point. For defensive linemen, short area burst is much more important than 40 times.

and hes still not very good at that, he is just an awkward player and i dont think he will be much of anything (of course i would love to be wrong :thumbs: )
but

im sorry but i just dont see ALL THIS TALENT

if not for that awful NC by OSU i highly doubt he goes in the first round . . . very seriously doubt it, i really just dont get what scouts saw in him

[Florida_Bronco]

and hes still not very good at that, he is just an awkward player and i dont think he will be much of anything (of course i would love to be wrong :thumbs: )
but

im sorry but i just dont see ALL THIS TALENT

if not for that awful NC by OSU i highly doubt he goes in the first round . . . very seriously doubt it, i really just dont get what scouts saw in him

Maybe's he's not good at it because he hasn't been coached right (the point of this thread) or Slowik's poor scheme.

The NC game certainly propelled him up the draft boards, but even without that he was still going to go in the first round.

[Dark Helmet]

I think substantial blame should be placed on the overall crappy performance of the D. Coaching, physical ability, weight, health, injury, lack of consistency with scheme and playing time are all to blame. Do I think he is or will be one of the best; no, but I do think he can be difference maker with more time.

[fontaine]

A raw player like Moss needs a ton of game snaps and bulk up.

Neither has happened. Blame it on our crappy defense.

[Atwater His Ass]

The NFL waits for no one really. If Moss doesn't get it together this soon, he'll find himself out of work in Denver and nothing more than a flier project for any other team in the league.

[cutthemdown]

IMO Jarvis needs to be on a defense where he can line up wider then Broncos allow him to. He needs a bit of space to use his moves and speed to turn the corner.

To do that though we need bigger and better linebackers and DT.

[cutthemdown]

actually Thomas has been a solid DT for us. he is a penetrating DT but Slowik's scheme had him just holding up the play for LB's and DE's instead of going and making plays.

My favorite defensive style is old school. IMO you can still be good with 4 big dlineman. 2 big 300 plus tackles and Dends that go 275 and up. Then you just tell all 4 to get after the QB and dominate.

[Garcia Bronco]

Actually the 2nd half of the year Jarvis Moss played ALOT, Alot more than Engelberger.

No. Moss played, but not more than John.

[Traveler]

IMO Jarvis needs to be on a defense where he can line up wider then Broncos allow him to. He needs a bit of space to use his moves and speed to turn the corner.

To do that though we need bigger and better linebackers and DT.

I think that's what Bates was planning to do with him. I'll say that one of the few nice things Bates did in his short stint here was to split Moss out wide and realize Dumervil is situational PR.

[WolfpackGuy]

Moss was a "Bates guy" pick. What's more disturbing is Crowder. I thought he was supposed to be one of the "more polished" DE's...

[Smiling Assassin27]

i think we badly overestimated moss' abilities. he's got some speed but that's it. he never demonstrated heart or a non-stop motor, or any real internal qualities that elite pass rush DE's have. You look at guys like Strahan, Freeney, even Elvis and you see some kind of internal spark that makes them believe they will get the qb on every down. Moss was a mistake.

[no-pseudo-fan]

I think that it is coaching and scheme. Pryce was our best DL, but he never looked as good as he does with Baltimore.

[Dedhed]

Look at the development of Brian Robison in Minn compared to the development of Crowder here and you can see how poor of a job our coaching staff has done in developing talent.

They played on the same line in college, and Crowder was the more talented and ready prospect. But with real coaching Robison has developed into a legitimate NFL player while Crowder has wallowed and even regressed under our staffs watch.

The exact same can be said for Moss.

[Old Dude]

I can't really think of any young Bronco defensive lineman who has showed much improvement over the last several seasons. Dumervil may be the one possible exception, but he also seems to have "peaked" early.

So that says to me that the coaching on the DL definitely leaves something to be desired.

Moss missed most his first season due to health issues. And, he was originally drafted as somewhat of a "project" so I wasn't surprised to see him start off slow this year. But I didn't see much improvement and I think everyone has to have a serious concern that he will be yet another in a long line of draft busts on defense.

[montrose]

Jarvis has surely gotten some horrid coaching. He was a project coming out, and Burney's did not teach him one pass-rush move. I've been as disappointed as anyone, especially after seeing Jarvis show tons of potential at camp. But for anyone who has attended camp and watched Burney scream at Moss without coaching him on what to exactly do, it's no secret as to why he hasn't really gotten better. The kid may never turn into anything in the NFL, but god awful coaching hasn't helped.

[MagicHef]

I wonder if the trade for Justin Tuck had happened and Al not failed his physical, how would Tuck be doing right now?

I think he'd still be doing pretty well, actually. He'd be working at Best Buy, but he'd be doing well.

[Hotrod]

Dude is a speed rusher that broke his leg. That at best case set him back a full year.

[ScottXray]

I think it may be a combination of bad picks and bad coaching.

A new coach MAY turn things around, and I'd like to see these guys in camp next year and see if they make progress through the pre-season. If they are cut by a new staff then we will know that they never really had it to begin with and were poor choices. If they aren't then we'll know that they have some potential and were poorly coached (obviously).

I would hope for the latter, but think that a new staff won't play favorites just because they were originally high round picks and they want to justify the original decisions.
Time to fish or cut bait.

[theAPAOps5]

I went with something to do with himself. His eyes are too close together, poor peripheral vision......... ;)

[cmhargrove]

New coaching can make all the difference here.

I don't know that Jarvis will ever be "dominant" at his position, but he can definitely become an important component in a good defensive unit.

He looks to be poorly coached and poorly used.

We really, really need a guy like Spags too turn this defense around. A real decent man, who commands respect and can be a "ballbuster." I think guys like Moss and Crowder have really needed someone like that in order to develop.

BTW - someone mentioned using Moss for stunts and twists. I feel unequivocally that that is his best game. If he starts in open space and uses his speed, he could become a good weapon. We used a twist against the Cowboys in the preseason that Jarvis executed beautifully and got a sack.

Slowik is so stupid he wouldn't win in a pee-wee league. I'm serious. I saw better schemes and uses of personnel last year coaching fifth graders.

[tsiguy96]

if not for that awful NC by OSU i highly doubt he goes in the first round . . . very seriously doubt it, i really just dont get what scouts saw in him

there is a reason they are scouts, and all had him going in the first round, and you sit on a message board. they are professionals.

[Hotrod]

Bring in Capers, go to the 3-4 and let him and Doom compete at OLB's ???

[footstepsfrom#27]

Problems (plural) include: Long time crazy staph infection + trying to gain big weight + adapting to the NFL + stress of expectations.

He could still become a decent player.
The staph infection had an enormous impact on his physical development. This guy is essentially a college junior in his 2nd season in the NFL and he's played about 1 complete season of football. His talent level is high enough that it warrants optimism, but it's going to take a completely new coaching staff to utilize what he can do, because I don't think Shanny's defensive assistants contributed much to his development.

[DBroncos4life]

I wanted Justin Tuck so bad, you can ask anyone on the ESPN board (its where I was posting during that time) but I really think Moss can be better then him. Sometimes it just takes DE's time. Hayward played poor till his third year. Berry didn't do much till around then either. Vandenbosch was the same way. If he doesn't improve this year I would call him a bust big time.

[Bob]

True Buff, I forgot about his health problems. That being said, I think at this point in time he has, or is close to overcoming that and now it's more a lack of coaching that is holding him back.

Also some folks just cant put on weight ... something I simply cannot relate to...

[~Crash~]

Scheme !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[~Crash~]

Also some folks just cant put on weight ... something I simply cannot relate to...:strong: :strong: :strong: ROFL!

[2KBack]

I think Moss will probably manage to put on some weight over time...age captures us all.

[Bronx33]

let spagz have a shot at coaching him...


It will be interesting to see if a new coach can turn these players around and maybe play up to their potential.

[PRBronco]

I think Moss will probably manage to put on some weight over time...age captures us all.

I remember in the draft preview magazine I had at the time, they noted he was very thin but had the frame to add muscle. I think it's usually pretty obvious to scouts who has room to add weight and who doesn't (Greg Eslinger, Woodyard) and their draft slot indicates it, despite college success.

[HooptyHoops]

I think that it is coaching and scheme. Pryce was our best DL, but he never looked as good as he does with Baltimore.

It's definitely the coaching...most people don't understand how a coach is so important...I will say, that Pryce dominated for us, not just in Baltimore....

[2KBack]

It's definitely the coaching...most people don't understand how a coach is so important...I will say, that Pryce dominated for us, not just in Baltimore....

Pryce blasted the coaching on his way out, he was probably on to something.

[PRBronco]

Pryce blasted the coaching on his way out, he was probably on to something.

Maybe he will forgive us and come back now? Man I miss that guy.

[MVP-06]

Honestly Crowder should be getting as much flack for his production. Dude was a 2nd rounder and only managed to get on the field for 6 games this past year.

Could possibly even say he has been a bigger bust then Moss so far

[PRBronco]

Honestly Crowder should be getting as much flack for his production. Dude was a 2nd rounder and only managed to get on the field for 6 games this past year.

Could possibly even say he has been a bigger bust then Moss so far

You sir, have made a very dangerous enemy! I challenge you to an adopt a bronco duel!

Naw I'm just kidding, he looks like crap so far.

[MVP-06]

lol, looks like neither one of us have made a good call. We can always keep our hopes up that the new regime will coach our boys up :thumbs:

[2KBack]

I think Crowder is going to benefit greatly from the coaching change too. There have been far too many questionable player decisions over the past few seasons. Talented guys not only aren't being put in good position on the field, but sometimes don't even see the field until forced on. WWIII and Larsen are perfect examples. I still question the sudden downfall of Foxworth and Mike Bell too.

[rastaman]

Pryce blasted the coaching on his way out, he was probably on to something.

I remember that. Pryce spoke out and said...he wasn't allowed to ATTACK! He was mainly being used to stand up blockers vs getting after the QB.

Funny when Pryce bad mouthed the coaching he received a lot of flack and back lash from the Bronco fans in the forum.

The excuses for getting rid of Pryce were he was getting old, too much money, and was a bad influence in the locker room. We sure could have used Pyrce's veteran leadership and talent over the last two years. Oh well the rest is history.

[uplink]

At the NFL level its ultimately up to the player to improve himself.

If the coaches aren't helping then he should seek advice in the off season (like Clady did, as an example of a player focused on improving himself).

[PRBronco]

I remember that. Pryce spoke out and said...he wasn't allowed to ATTACK! He was mainly being used to stand up blockers vs getting after the QB.

Funny when Pryce bad mouthed the coaching he received a lot of flack and back lash from the Bronco fans in the forum.

The excuses for getting rid of Pryce were he was getting old, too much money, and was a bad influence in the locker room. We sure could have used Pyrce's veteran leadership and talent over the last two years. Oh well the rest is history.

Also he had that back problem where he had to get an epidural for the pain. Man I thought he was done, and I thought he was overrated anyways. Stupid in the past PRBronco!

[McLuvin]

At the NFL level its ultimately up to the player to improve himself.

If the coaches aren't helping then he should seek advice in the off season (like Clady did, as an example of a player focused on improving himself).

That is not a smart thing to say, You cannot compare Clady to anything on the defensive side of the ball. There is no question we had good coaching on offense. Dennison was our OL coach and he coached them up well.

Who is Crowder or Moss suppose to turn too? An HC who knows absolutely nothing about defense in shanny? Slowick? I dont even know who our DL coach is but he obviously sucks.

Dumervil had a pretty good year last year and added NOTHING to his arsenal of moves. Its lack of coaching man, Whenever you see teams like the Giants or even Minnesota, Carolina, Tampa and more have players you never heard of or are playing because of injury but yet playing at an high level its pure coaching and scheme...

If Jarvis Moss can only do a speed rush and thats all he does every snap, Why aint the coaches working with him on new moves?

So i think your actually wrong. These college kids dont know jack when they come to the pro game unless your "special". And theres only a few "special" guys that come in right away and dominate. Even with that though its rarely @ the DT/DE position.

It usually takes about 3 years before a DE/DT arrives in the league and thats WITH great coaching unless your special like Ngata....

[uplink]

That is not a smart thing to say, You cannot compare Clady to anything on the defensive side of the ball. There is no question we had good coaching on offense. Dennison was our OL coach and he coached them up well.

I stand by it. I think NFL players that succeed take it upon themselves to learn the NFL game and how to make an impact at this level. Position coaches do have an impact in an individuals improvement but this is secondary to the guy taking it on his own shoulders and getting it done.

Imagine if we could take the part of Ray Lewis's brain that relates to desire to play football at a high level and place it in J. Moss's head. Then we wouldn't need this thread.

[Atlas]

He reminds me of Kavika Pittman. The dude just isn't that good.

[fontaine]

I remember that. Pryce spoke out and said...he wasn't allowed to ATTACK! He was mainly being used to stand up blockers vs getting after the QB.

Funny when Pryce bad mouthed the coaching he received a lot of flack and back lash from the Bronco fans in the forum.

The excuses for getting rid of Pryce were he was getting old, too much money, and was a bad influence in the locker room. We sure could have used Pyrce's veteran leadership and talent over the last two years. Oh well the rest is history.


There's seems to be a lot of truth in that because the guy that replaced him in Engleberger pretty much does just that. Take up blockers and pretty soon he'll have a career longer than Pryce as a Bronco.

That about sums up our defensive approach that last few years.

Also it's NOT just up to the players. There are schemes and coaches that get the best out of players. Take someone like Antonio Bryant who bounced around the league and was available for dirt cheap this offseason. With the right coaching staff he's now playing at near pro bowl level.