Punch to the gut...Schefter reports McDaniels is the frontrunner

[Rohirrim]

Huh? Three or four years ago, I might agree with you. But the last few drafts have been nothing if not predictable. Most of the pundits have nailed his first rounders and they have been drafting for need early and depth late. Nothing crazy there.

My point was that Shanahan has not built a defense in Denver. It's always on his back burner. Why should we assume that next year, if he had stayed, that he would have changed? It's just an assumption. If Mike had stayed, it's just as likely Slowik would have remained the DC, maybe even made a few draft picks himself, and the Broncos finish 8 and 8 (or worse) again. I just don't see where people are coming from when they make the argument that things would have changed next season if Shanahan would have stayed. I don't see any guarantee of that, or even a reason for making that argument.

[Beantown Bronco]

I don't like Belichik coordinators, 3 of them have been hired to HC positions and they all got fired in the last couple of months (Weis, Crennel and Mangini). Belichik is too hands on, unless you get Belichik himself, you are only getting a shadow of his magic.

One of my buddies, a Jets fan, loves to go to local bars and shout the following when drunk:

How many SB's have the Pats won since they lost Mangini?

Amazingly, he's still alive.

[lex]

That was before Spags tanked his interview.


Is that even true? Besides, I kind of question how bad he could have done. It didnt really seem all that formal, whereas, the Jets allegedly had him running all over the place.

[Beantown Bronco]

Is that even true? Besides, I kind of question how bad he could have done. It didnt really seem all that formal, whereas, the Jets allegedly had him running all over the place.

Who knows? But it's the second report I've read about it, and the same report came out about him after the Jets interview.....maybe he's the new Kubiak. I remember Kubes was always the top candidate for new openings just after the SB wins and supposedly the only reason he never got a HC job was because he gave terrible interviews.

[WolfpackGuy]

Who knows? But it's the second report I've read about it, and the same report came out about him after the Jets interview.....maybe he's the new Kubiak. I remember Kubes was always the top candidate for new openings just after the SB wins and supposedly the only reason he never got a HC job was because he gave terrible interviews.
Speaking of Kubiak, does anybody think if he doesn't cut it this year in Houston, that he may become available in 2010 or 2011? Is Bowlen sinister enough to hire a one/two year "rental" until/if Kubiak gets fired?

[Taco John]

Speaking of Kubiak, does anybody think if he doesn't cut it this year in Houston, that he may become available in 2010 or 2011? Is Bowlen sinister enough to hire a one/two year "rental" until/if Kubiak gets fired?



"You failed in Houston. You're just the guy we're looking for."

[montrose]

Is Bowlen sinister enough to hire a one/two year "rental" until/if Kubiak gets fired?

He did it in 1992 when he hired Wade knowing he wanted Shanahan.

[TheReverend]

Speaking of Kubiak, does anybody think if he doesn't cut it this year in Houston, that he may become available in 2010 or 2011? Is Bowlen sinister enough to hire a one/two year "rental" until/if Kubiak gets fired?

What would be more interesting is if they decided to upgrade from Shanny Lite to Shanny Genuine Draft in Houston... and if they did, would Shanahan retain his own son, or send him packing to keep his own stamp on the offense?

That'd be cool to see.

[NFLBRONCO]

What would be more interesting is if they decided to upgrade from Shanny Lite to Shanny Genuine Draft in Houston... and if they did, would Shanahan retain his own son, or send him packing to keep his own stamp on the offense?

That'd be cool to see.

I hope not I want fresh ideas.

I'm thinking McDaniels is our guy now I prefer Spags.

[WolfpackGuy]

What would be more interesting is if they decided to upgrade from Shanny Lite to Shanny Genuine Draft in Houston... and if they did, would Shanahan retain his own son, or send him packing to keep his own stamp on the offense?

That'd be cool to see.

Hilarious. Well, if Shanahan doesn't take a job until 2010, then that might hamstring Bowlen signing a big/expensive name this year because of the money owed. I don't know how patient Bob McNair is, but while Kubiak has been putting a nice team together, he hasn't been tearing it up in Houston. However, it's not like Capers left him the keys to a Ferarri. More like a Chevette with 450,000 miles and a little bit of a payment left on it.

[TonyR]

Who knows? But it's the second report I've read about it, and the same report came out about him after the Jets interview.....

Read this theory on the "wasn't as prepared as one would expect" story.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/06/trust-issues-could-be-affecting-jets-coaching-search/

[TonyR]

What would be more interesting is if they decided to upgrade from Shanny Lite to Shanny Genuine Draft in Houston...

That's good stuff right there.

[Rohirrim]

Just say no to :kubiak:

[fontaine]

Honestly, I'm just genuinely disgusted that 7-9 and 8-8 were considered failures given the stage of transition AND the sheer volume obstacles. Seriously, with the volume of injuries ALONE the past two years 3-13 would have been understandable.

It's all good, though, as they say, the show must go on. I just vehemently disagree with this move and think we can all say that we'll be lucky to find a coach a fraction as capable, qualified and successful.

Shanahan helped CREATE those obstacles when he reached for guys like Moss, has another bust in Crowder and thought safeties like Manual/McCree would get the job done.

Let's not act like Shanahan is a victim here. HE'S the one who chose the defense personnel that has been stinkin' it up, HE'S the one who chose the defensive coaches who will shortly be unemployed and out of the league like Jim Bates last year.

Sure he did wonderful things with the offense but set the defense back in the complete opposite direction and the HC is responsible for the entire team no matter how "hands off" Shanahan was on Defense.

And it's not something Shanahan just did in the past three years. He's been doing it for near a decade and it finally caught up with him.

I wish Shanahan the best but whoever hires him will hire half a head coach who has done close to nothing for the defense in the NFL.

[fontaine]

As far as I'm concerned, Shanahan had this team on the right track.


Our defense has nose dived the past three years to one that's near bottom in virtually every category with the young high draft picks barely making an impact in Moss/Crowder. Not to mention our ST has sucked constantly ever year.

And this team was on the right track?
:rofl:

That sounds like something the captain of the titanic would have said. And don't tell me a load of draft picks will fix the defense. Yeah like that's worked out so well for Mike before. I love what the guy has done here in the past but the right track is the last place Denver is going right now after the horror season we had on D/ST.

[TheReverend]

Shanahan helped CREATE those obstacles when he reached for guys like Moss, has another bust in Crowder and thought safeties like Manual/McCree would get the job done.

Let's not act like Shanahan is a victim here. HE'S the one who chose the defense personnel that has been stinkin' it up, HE'S the one who chose the defensive coaches who will shortly be unemployed and out of the league like Jim Bates last year.

Sure he did wonderful things with the offense but set the defense back in the complete opposite direction and the HC is responsible for the entire team no matter how "hands off" Shanahan was on Defense.

And it's not something Shanahan just did in the past three years. He's been doing it for near a decade and it finally caught up with him.

I wish Shanahan the best but whoever hires him will hire half a head coach who has done close to nothing for the defense in the NFL.

What better FA's were available? Or would you rather we by-passed drafting Marshall, Royal, Clady, Scheffler, etc?

Shanahan's average defensive ranking over his entire career is 11th in the NFL. What have you done for me lately rules the day despite career ending injury to our top defensive player (Al), and missing half the season this year (Champ).

I certainly won't defend the D coaches, though.

[fontaine]

What better FA's were available? Or would you rather we by-passed drafting Marshall, Royal, Clady, Scheffler, etc?

Shanahan's average defensive ranking over his entire career is 11th in the NFL. What have you done for me lately rules the day despite career ending injury to our top defensive player (Al), and missing half the season this year (Champ).

I certainly won't defend the D coaches, though.

Nice I see what you did there. Cherry pick some specific scenarios and stats and present them to actually defend what Shanahan has done.

Well I'll play the hired Jim Bates card, and raise you by Willie Middlebrooks, and Lelie vs Reed!

;D

Your move!

[TheReverend]

Nice I see what you did there. Cherry pick some specific scenarios and stats and present them to actually defend what Shanahan has done.

Well I'll play the hired Jim Bates card, and raise you by Willie Middlebrooks, and Lelie vs Reed!

;D

Your move!

That's not cherry picking... that's showing how successful the defensive side of the ball has been under an "offensive coach" when you said it's sucked for the past decade.

Willie Middlebrooks I deserve. I love that guy.

Bates however SHOULD'VE gotten more time to implement HIS scheme, imo. Naturally that's something I DO disagree with Shanahan about.

[Taco John]

Our defense has nose dived the past three years to one that's near bottom in virtually every category with the young high draft picks barely making an impact in Moss/Crowder. Not to mention our ST has sucked constantly ever year.

And this team was on the right track?
:rofl:

That sounds like something the captain of the titanic would have said. And don't tell me a load of draft picks will fix the defense. Yeah like that's worked out so well for Mike before. I love what the guy has done here in the past but the right track is the last place Denver is going right now after the horror season we had on D/ST.



Absolutely. When I say they were on the right track, you understand that I'm not looking back, right? Being on track means looking forward.

Yes, I absolutely believe we were on the right track. Mike had rebuilt the offense, and got rid of a lot of dead weight in the organization. One of the more notable names is Sundquist, and in his place he put the Goodmans. I believe that the Goodmans have proven that they know what they're doing, and with this upcoming season we have more draft picks and more cap money than we've had in a long time.

I think Pat Bowlen made a stupid and gutless decision to dump Mike. He should have gutted it out with Mike the way Rooney did with Cowher after 98 when he went three full seasons without the playoffs while they retooled their organization.

[baja]

What better FA's were available? Or would you rather we by-passed drafting Marshall, Royal, Clady, Scheffler, etc?

<b>Shanahan's average defensive ranking over his entire career is 11th in the NFL. </b> What have you done for me lately rules the day despite career ending injury to our top defensive player (Al), and missing half the season this year (Champ).

I certainly won't defend the D coaches, though.

That's like saying a guy that gets two A's and two F's is a C student.

[baja]

Absolutely. When I say they were on the right track, you understand that I'm not looking back, right? Being on track means looking forward.

Yes, I absolutely believe we were on the right track. Mike had rebuilt the offense, and got rid of a lot of dead weight in the organization. One of the more notable names is Sundquist, and in his place he put the Goodmans. I believe that the Goodmans have proven that they know what they're doing, and with this upcoming season we have more draft picks and more cap money than we've had in a long time.

I think Pat Bowlen made a stupid and gutless decision to dump Mike. He should have gutted it out with Mike the way Rooney did with Cowher after 98 when he went three full seasons without the playoffs while they retooled their organization.

Who acquired that dead weight TJ

[TheReverend]

That's like saying a guy that gets two A's and two F's is a C student.

What about 5 A's (top 20%), 3 B's (2nd 20%), 4 C's (3rd 20%--By the way, this is where we consider the point we can content for a championship... "Middle of the pack"), 1 D (4th 20%), and 1 F (Bottom 20%)

Better than you thought for an "offensive only" guy, huh?

Den D ranking under Shanahan
1996: 4
1997: 5
1998: 11
1999: 7
2000: 24
2001: 8
2002: 6
2003: 4
2004: 4
2005: 15
2006: 14
2007: 19
2008: 29
Ave: 11.5

[TheReverend]

As far as your grades metaphor goes... that would give Mike a 2.71 defensive gpa.

5 A's=20pts
3 B's=9 pts
4 C's=8 pts
1 D= 1 pt
1 F= 0 pts

[ScottXray]

What about 5 A's (top 20%), 3 B's (2nd 20%), 4 C's (3rd 20%--By the way, this is where we consider the point we can content for a championship... "Middle of the pack"), 1 D (4th 20%), and 1 F (Bottom 20%)

Better than you thought for an "offensive only" guy, huh?

Den D ranking under Shanahan
1996: 4
1997: 5
1998: 11
1999: 7
2000: 24
2001: 8
2002: 6
2003: 4
2004: 4
2005: 15
2006: 14
2007: 19
2008: 29
Ave: 11.5


Its the last 4 that indicate the TRACK we were on .
C, C new DC, D new DC mid year, F and Stick with that guy.

And these rankings are in Yards, not points, which is another statistic.
2007 we ranked 19th...yet everyone here knew our defense was worse than that in GAME situations.

Part of that is simply the way things happened, and part is that Shanny wanted to stick with Slowik , because of the previous firings, I assume, (because there is NO way he could have thought that he (SLow) actaully did a GOOD job.

More than anything it shows that if you don't pay attention to the players you have on the defensive side, you get run over, passed over, and kicked over and OUT eventually. The Team was not competitive on the defensive side of the ball.

[TonyR]

I believe that the Goodmans have proven that they know what they're doing...

On offense, yes. But weren't they involved in drafting Moss and Crowder? And how about our last stellar defensive FA class?

[TheReverend]

Its the last 4 that indicate the TRACK we were on .
C, C new DC, D new DC mid year, F and Stick with that guy.

And these rankings are in Yards, not points, which is another statistic.
2007 we ranked 19th...yet everyone here knew our defense was worse than that in GAME situations.

Part of that is simply the way things happened, and part is that Shanny wanted to stick with Slowik , because of the previous firings, I assume, (because there is NO way he could have thought that he (SLow) actaully did a GOOD job.

More than anything it shows that if you don't pay attention to the players you have on the defensive side, you get run over, passed over, and kicked over and OUT eventually. The Team was not competitive on the defensive side of the ball.

Wow. And here I was pretty sure they actually tracked stats from the games and not from practices.

"What have you done for me lately?" approach, I see?

Not sure you've noticed but during that span 75%+ of our draft picks have been on the OTHER side of the ball while we build and protect our franchise QB.

[ScottXray]

Wow. And here I was pretty sure they actually tracked stats from the games and not from practices.

"What have you done for me lately?" approach, I see?

Not sure you've noticed but during that span 75%+ of our draft picks have been on the OTHER side of the ball while we build and protect our franchise QB.

Yep, and as you pointed out the draft picks have gone to the offensive side, which makes my point.
The defense was given a few players and some FA scrubs while the few players that might have made some difference were let go to other teams (Pryce, Berry, Warren, to some extent Lynch), but the offense was Shannys golden child. Meanwhile the few players brought in on defense are not impressive , some outright disasters,( a few exceptions for this years rookies) , whether because they weren't up to the job or they weren't coached well or they were not in it for anything but Bowlens money.

Those coaches and players were selected by Shanahan, He was the head coach and had ultimate responsibility for them.

There is still no indication he would have done anything different this year.

[TheReverend]

Yep, and as you pointed out the draft picks have gone to the offensive side, which makes my point.
The defense was given a few players and some FA scrubs while the few players that might have made some difference were let go to other teams (Pryce, Berry, Warren, to some extent Lynch), but the offense was Shannys golden child. Meanwhile the few players brought in on defense are not impressive , some outright disasters,( a few exceptions for this years rookies) , whether because they weren't up to the job or they weren't coached well or they were not in it for anything but Bowlens money.

Those coaches and players were selected by Shanahan, He was the head coach and had ultimate responsibility for them.

There is still no indication he would have done anything different this year.

Everyone glorifies the past three drafts, yet criticizes the decline of the defense. Shanahan also gave all the credit for the successful drafts to the Goodman's, who have kept their jobs.

The FAs you're complaining about were on the cheap and the best of the crop.

So what's your problem?

[TonyR]

McDANIELS EMERGES AS RAMS CANDIDATE
Posted by Mike Florio on January 6, 2009, 9:19 p.m.
And the field of potential candidates for the head-coaching position in St. Louis continues to grow.

The latest candidate, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, is Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. The Rams reportedly have requested and received permission to interview McDaniels, 32.

McDaniels was in demand last year, given his role in the Pats’ 16-0 regular season. But McDaniels opted not to interview for any openings in the last hiring cycle.

This year, McDaniels arguably has done an even more impressive job, leading the team to an 11-5 record despite losing quarterback Tom Brady in the first quarter of the first game.

The Post-Dispatch also reports that interim coach Jim Haslett formally interviewed for the position on Monday, and that the team has expressed renewed interest in interviewing Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo.

This development likely coincides with reports that Spagnuolo was less-than-spagtacular (groan) in interviews with the Jets and the Broncos.

Thus, if there won’t be a bidding war for Spagnuolo’s services, the cash-conscious Rams (given a potential sale of the team) could be putting Spagnuolo back on their not-so-short list.

Our full list of current and possible candidates for all head-coaching and G.M. vacancies, routinely updated and meticulously groomed, is right here.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

[baja]

What about 5 A's (top 20%), 3 B's (2nd 20%), 4 C's (3rd 20%--By the way, this is where we consider the point we can content for a championship... "Middle of the pack"), 1 D (4th 20%), and 1 F (Bottom 20%)

Better than you thought for an "offensive only" guy, huh?

Den D ranking under Shanahan
1996: 4
1997: 5
1998: 11
1999: 7
2000: 24
2001: 8
2002: 6
2003: 4
2004: 4
2005: 15
2006: 14
2007: 19
2008: 29
Ave: 11.5

Look at the last four years. I'm sure you see a trend there and it's downward. Bowlen feels a responsibility to run the best organization he can and at the end of the day the owner of the Broncos felt it was best for the Broncos to let Shanahan go and the numbers support his decision even Mike supports his decision why can't you see this.

[TheReverend]

Look at the last four years. I'm sure you see a trend there and it's downward. Bowlen feels a responsibility to run the best organization he can and at the end of the day the owner of the Broncos felt it was best for the Broncos to let Shanahan go and the numbers support his decision even Mike supports his decision why can't you see this.

Learn to read. We already went over this EXACT "point" thoroughly on this EXACT page of this EXACT thread.

[fontaine]

Absolutely. When I say they were on the right track, you understand that I'm not looking back, right? Being on track means looking forward.

Yes, I absolutely believe we were on the right track. Mike had rebuilt the offense, and got rid of a lot of dead weight in the organization. One of the more notable names is Sundquist, and in his place he put the Goodmans. I believe that the Goodmans have proven that they know what they're doing, and with this upcoming season we have more draft picks and more cap money than we've had in a long time.


That doesn't make any sense.

You're discounting what happened in the past couple of years with the same HC because it's not about looking back?

Put it this way, three years ago with Coyer doing his best to put together a respectable defense, bringing in a new QB like Cutler was "Mike also on the right track?"

That same track that led us to the Jim Bates clusterfudge and now with Bob Slowik and a truck load of busts like Boss, Webster/Koutivedes at Mike, our not so safeties, Moss/Crowder?

Thanks but no thanks. This is one train ride I've been on before and I'm still sick from the last one. I would have welcomed Shanahan back if he had acknowledged his weakness in the defense and handing over that responsibility to a new DC with some pedigree and talent but Mike's ego got in the way.

Far from showing that he's learned from his mistakes on defense, Mike keeps on making the same remedial level screw ups like actually firing the one DC who got some success here in Coyer, and instead of investing in talent like a Lynch or Kennedy at safety he went back to the journeyman approach that's served so well along the DL for so long right?

[Beantown Bronco]

I blame Champ. His arrival pretty much coincides with the arrival of the abyssmal rankings.

[NFLBRONCO]

Quote:
From what I’m hearing, the Broncos loved New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, who seems to be formulating his staff, including Dom Capers as his defensive coordinator. The Broncos will not take much more time and will make a decision in the next week.


If we switch to a 3-4 I believe Doom could be our James Harrsion
Allows DJ and WW to play at the same time. Need a ILBer and NT for sure

Tyson Jackson would look good as one end. Moss/Crowder at the other end From another poster

[broncosteven]

Quote:
From what I’m hearing, the Broncos loved New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, who seems to be formulating his staff, including Dom Capers as his defensive coordinator. The Broncos will not take much more time and will make a decision in the next week.


If we switch to a 3-4 I believe Doom could be our James Harrsion
Allows DJ and WW to play at the same time. Need a ILBer and NT for sure

Tyson Jackson would look good as one end. Moss/Crowder at the other end From another poster


Capers is a better DC than HC. We will never have a shutdown Ravens/steelers D with him but it will be better than last 3 years.

[Inkana7]

Capers Coordinated the Steelers D from 92 to 94 and the Dolphins D wasn't bad when he was there.

[2KBack]

Quote:
From what I’m hearing, the Broncos loved New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, who seems to be formulating his staff, including Dom Capers as his defensive coordinator. The Broncos will not take much more time and will make a decision in the next week.


If we switch to a 3-4 I believe Doom could be our James Harrsion
Allows DJ and WW to play at the same time. Need a ILBer and NT for sure

Tyson Jackson would look good as one end. Moss/Crowder at the other end From another poster

Boooooo

It's hiring another Jeremy Bates, and putting a retread at DC. This is my least favorite scenario so far.

[Taco John]

You're discounting what happened in the past couple of years with the same HC because it's not about looking back?



No. I'm discounting what happened the past couple of years because the past couple of years have been about building the offense from the ground up - at the expense of the defense. The result is that we have one of the best young offenses in the game. With that in place, the next two seasons will be about building a defense to match them.

I've never believed in one year rebuilding projects because they don't typically "stick." A year later, the team is back to its floundering ways. When Shanahan brought Jay in, he hit the reset button on the organization. I looked at that like a fresh start. I believe that this team was being built to be a long term competitor, and that we had a Superbowl trophy in our future.

We still might. It's still the same great situation in front of us. We just don't know who gets to inherit it.

[WolfpackGuy]

Why don't they just go with a 4-4?
Wouldn't anything that leaves only one horrible Broncos safety be a good thing?
Oh wait, someone forgot to tell Slowik that Bailey was injured in the CAR game when they tried that.

[yavoon]

No. I'm discounting what happened the past couple of years because the past couple of years have been about building the offense from the ground up - at the expense of the defense. The result is that we have one of the best young offenses in the game. With that in place, the next two seasons will be about building a defense to match them.

I've never believed in one year rebuilding projects because they don't typically "stick." A year later, the team is back to its floundering ways. When Shanahan brought Jay in, he hit the reset button on the organization. I looked at that like a fresh start. I believe that this team was being built to be a long term competitor, and that we had a Superbowl trophy in our future.

We still might. It's still the same great situation in front of us. We just don't know who gets to inherit it.

think about it this way. Now you can buildup the "potential" of the team in shanny's last year to monstrously mythic proportions without allowing the soul crushing reality of the NFL to get in the way.