Denver's New Offensive Identity?

[Fedaykin]

So, what's the opinion on what Denver's new offensive identity should be? During the early Shanahan days is was a two headed beast of Elway/TD. For most of the later years is was a run first to set up the pass game scheme that provided very consistent production and good (but not Elway/TD calibre) balance.

In '08 Denver shifted (intentionally or unintentionally) in a huge way toward a passing offense. It hasn't even been a pass first to set up the run, but just pass all day long.

So the question is: What do people want our offense to be? (poll coming)

[Broncojef]

So, what's the opinion on what Denver's new offensive identity should be? During the early Shanahan days is was a two headed beast of Elway/TD. For most of the later years is was a run first to set up the pass game scheme that provided very consistent production and good (but not Elway/TD calibre) balance.

In '08 Denver shifted (intentionally or unintentionally) in a huge way toward a passing offense. It hasn't even been a pass first to set up the run, but just pass all day long.

So the question is: What do people want our offense to be? (poll coming)

We need a QB coach specifically to get Jay's head on right. He imploded and got attitude during many of the games and was unchecked by this coaching staff. We need to find our next TD and give Jay an off-set to rely upon week to week. The passing game looks OK but we need the RB and a more balanced attack.

[Play2win]

"Wide-Open" would be my preference... ;D

[Killericon]

Gruden-style, but with the ever present threat of a once every 30 plays shot WAAAAAAAY down the field.

[chaz]

We need balance. It's pretty simple. Most important is whether or not we'll lose or ZBS identity. That would be the biggest loss of all with the coaches (for now) and players we have

[NFLBRONCO]

DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT wide open with balance

[SoCalBronco]

Continue to keep the offense pass oriented. That's where the talent is and that's where the matchups are. Maintain the ZBS when we do run. Continue to use bubble screens in uncovered situations. In fact, I'd like to see the screen game expanded beyond that. Royal has great speed and can make huge plays in space and Marshall is the king of YAC. More middle screens and quick screens to the WRs, not just the bubbles to the slot recievers. This is a surefire way to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers, with a chance for a huge play if its blocked properly. It eliminates the problem of designing combos to beat coverages and predicting coverages, etc. It's a great way to keep defenses from blitzing, too. I'd like us to throw 5-7 screens per game to the wide recievers, not including the bubbles vs. uncovered.

We can creep towards more balance when we get a true stud buffalo in the backfield. But the ratio should always be based on where the talent is and where the favorable matchups are.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Depends. If we get Josh McDaniel, it's spread and throw the ball all over the field. Personally, I don't like this plan.

If we get a Defensive guy (Ryan, Rivera, Spags), I believe we re-establish ourselves as a run team who will be willing to build a quality defense and play field position rather than chuck it and try for 40 points a game.

[broncofan7]

Shanny run 1st style --once we get Spagnuolo as our HC and Derek Ward (FA)from the NYG to pair with Hillis, we will be golden.......book it.

[chaz]

DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT wide open with balance

if it ain't broke don't fix it. our offense is rolling. just wait for a healthy running game.

[supermanhr9]

if it ain't broke don't fix it. our offense is rolling. just wait for a healthy running game.


Agreed, it was scary what Cutler did on the field when the defense actually believed we were going to run the ball. However when they know pass straight up we still succeeded to some point. It just goes to show you the potential sitting there

[tsiguy96]

Agreed, it was scary what Cutler did on the field when the defense actually believed we were going to run the ball. However when they know pass straight up we still succeeded to some point. It just goes to show you the potential sitting there

werd. spread offense with a single back like hillis was disgusting. we could run or pass, either way it was going to work.

[broncosteven]

I am tired of the WCO, if we are making a coaching change just because of 21 years then we need a guy who can run his own system and run it well.

I would like to see a balance attack that can dominate the LOS allowing run and pass. I am tired of one play setting up another play. If you cannot out execute play after play don't run the ****ers.

Push the ball down field with pass and be able to run counters and traps in addition to the ZBS.

[BroncoMan4ever]

if we get Spags here as our HC, we will be a running team, but we will also throw a lot. we aren't going to really do the WCO short dink and dunk passes and run the ball, we are going to run the ball and throw it all over the field.

[BroncoMan4ever]

We need a QB coach specifically to get Jay's head on right. He imploded and got attitude during many of the games and was unchecked by this coaching staff. We need to find our next TD and give Jay an off-set to rely upon week to week. The passing game looks OK but we need the RB and a more balanced attack.

he got pissed because the defense continually put more and more on him. look at the SD game, he had just led a TD drive and got the game within possible reach only to watch the defense **** up and him know he has to go out there and do the impossible.

but u r right, he needs his TD to help him shoulder the load and be there when he isn't having a great game. also a good RB would open up better passing options for Jay which will result in fewer bad passes and turnovers from him.

[lex]

Id like for us to get back to running the ball more. WCO is just an ambiguous term. No one really runs it in its truest form. We should definitely keep the ZBS.

[UboBronco]

I am tired of the WCO, if we are making a coaching change just because of 21 years then we need a guy who can run his own system and run it well.

I would like to see a balance attack that can dominate the LOS allowing run and pass. I am tired of one play setting up another play. If you cannot out execute play after play don't run the ****ers.

Push the ball down field with pass and be able to run counters and traps in addition to the ZBS.

One problem I have with the WCO... with us and Houston, they both suck in the red zone... I am ready to go back to smashmouth. I think Clady, Kuper, Harris can adapt with no problem. Center needs new blood, even if Nalen came back, as we are old there, and even though everyone states Hamilton is tough and the glue, I have never been impressed with him.

I just want to have the feeling we can run the ball in when it is first and goal from the 8 even if it takes 4 attempts. Cutler would have great stats with play action, including the red zone.

We all have had the feeling the last few years, once the opponent got in the red zone were toast, I just want to have that change where everytime we get there, we know we can score six.

So I do believe several changes, including the zone blocking need to change in some way.

[lex]

One problem I have with the WCO... with us and Houston, they both suck in the red zone... I am ready to go back to smashmouth. I think Clady, Kuper, Harris can adapt with no problem. Center needs new blood, even if Nalen came back, as we are old there, and even though everyone states Hamilton is tough and the glue, I have never been impressed with him.
I just want to have the feeling we can run the ball in when it is first and goal from the 8 even if it takes 4 attempts. Cutler would have great stats with play action, including the red zone.

We all have had the feeling the last few years, once the opponent got in the red zone were toast, I just want to have that change where everytime we get there, we know we can score six.

So I do believe several changes, including the zone blocking need to change in some way.

I couldnt agree more on Hamilton. He gets rag dolled way too much. Thats why Id like us to take one of the centers in the upcoming draft. Id rather get 310 lb guys who can move as well as Hamilton, or, at the very least well enough to make the ZBS work and I say that for the precise reason your mentioning. I want us to get Alex Mack or Jon Luigs.

[nickademus]

if we get Spags here as our HC, we will be a running team, but we will also throw a lot. we aren't going to really do the WCO short dink and dunk passes and run the ball, we are going to run the ball and throw it all over the field.

So in essence we are going to run and throw? Wow. what amazing insight.


I really doubt we go away from the Shanny WCO that we have been running we are A RB away from being dominant. Our line is built for the Zone and while they may be better at pass pro right now due to rookie Tackles this is still a ZBS and a west coast offence. And its not like we really dink and dunk the ball as it is.

[Rock Chalk]

Continue to keep the offense pass oriented. That's where the talent is and that's where the matchups are. Maintain the ZBS when we do run. Continue to use bubble screens in uncovered situations. In fact, I'd like to see the screen game expanded beyond that. Royal has great speed and can make huge plays in space and Marshall is the king of YAC. More middle screens and quick screens to the WRs, not just the bubbles to the slot recievers. This is a surefire way to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers, with a chance for a huge play if its blocked properly. It eliminates the problem of designing combos to beat coverages and predicting coverages, etc. It's a great way to keep defenses from blitzing, too. I'd like us to throw 5-7 screens per game to the wide recievers, not including the bubbles vs. uncovered.

We can creep towards more balance when we get a true stud buffalo in the backfield. But the ratio should always be based on where the talent is and where the favorable matchups are.

Worst point production in a long time and you want to keep the status quo.

Brilliant Mike.

Get back to what won us superbowls. Smash the ball down their throats and focus on the slants and seam routes of the WCO.

[nickademus]

I am not ready to give up on Kory Lichtensteiger he is a big frame if a little light but he was mean as hell with Bowlen Green two years ago and he did win the award for the best center in college football that season. I like some of the interior linemen in this draft but we should figure out what we already have before we go wasting picks.

[lex]

I am not ready to give up on Kory Lichtensteiger he is a big frame if a little light but he was mean as hell with Bowlen Green two years ago and he did win the award for the best center in college football that season. I like some of the interior linemen in this draft but we should figure out what we already have before we go wasting picks.

We wouldnt be wasting a pick taking an interior lineman. Hamilton gets rag dolled too easily and Wiegmann is 35. Is L'steiger going to play G and C?

[DontBeMessin]

Where is the option for "NO" offense?

[Broncobuddy7]

Are we gonna lost Bobby Turner (RBC) to whatever team Shanny signs with?

[Bronx33]

We would think it would slow dow the process for a new coach to totally change the offense vs kinda letting it ride and slowly implementing his playbooks (just a thought)

[BroncoMan4ever]

So in essence we are going to run and throw? Wow. what amazing insight.


I really doubt we go away from the Shanny WCO that we have been running we are A RB away from being dominant. Our line is built for the Zone and while they may be better at pass pro right now due to rookie Tackles this is still a ZBS and a west coast offence. And its not like we really dink and dunk the ball as it is.

no dumbass. in its true form a WCO is running and short dink and dunk passes. Gruden is the coach who runs the closest thing to a WCO. he runs and has short high percentage passes.

us on the other hand, we are a WCO in the sense that we are run first(not counting this season) but when it comes to the passing game, with Jay's arm we will never be a true WCO, we will run the ball a lot, but rather than easy high percentage passes, we will gamble on downfield passing from Jay.

[BroncoMan4ever]

We wouldnt be wasting a pick taking an interior lineman. Hamilton gets rag dolled too easily and Wiegmann is 35. Is L'steiger going to play G and C?

i think the plan when he was drafted for him to be our C of the future, or emergency G if Hamilton couldn't return. I honestly, wouldn't mind getting bigger at the C and RG positions, as it would be a help in short yardage and Red Zone running, but i don't see that OL right now as a major area of need, or anything that needs to be addressed early in the draft.

i would rather get a RB and worry about defense and use a late round pick or 2 on OL like we tend to do most every draft.

[Dudeskey]

Personally I like the Coryell offense, but hey, whatever scores us points...™

[AbileneBroncoFan]

I voted true west coast, but I don't like any of those options. The offensive line is outstanding for its youth and the fact that we had to be so one dimensional. Cutler has the talent to be a superstar passer if we can be more balanced and get a defense that can keep games close. The receivers are only going to get better. Everyone that wants to get back to a power running game has a valid point, but I say we would be better off getting a fast, agile back (but one who isn't incapable of running between the tackles) with good hands that we can use similar to a Marshall Faulk. Someone like a LeSean McCoy, or better yet, Jahvid Best next year. I want to see a rb who can get his 100 yards on 15-20 carries, as well as 4 or 5 catches for 40 or 50 yards a game. That would give us unbelievable versatility and would make it completely impossible for a defense to gameplan to stop one guy. A back like that matched up against a lb in coverage would be a huge mismatch. If you don't respect the run (like teams didn't this year) then you'll get gashed for 20+ yard runs consistently. Or you can stack the line and leave Brandon, Eddie, and Scheffler in man coverage and let Jay pick you apart. Pittman and Hillis are pretty good in short yardage, so we could keep them for 3rd and 1s. Remember, a power running game is only effective with an effective defense (which we don't currently have) and running the ball 40 times a game will minimize the times that we put the ball in the hands of a franchise quarterbacks and our outstanding receivers. Balance, unpredictability, and game breaking speed is what I want to see in an offense. We have all of the pieces for this except a playmaking rb, and let's be honest, that is not too hard to find if you sit down and look (Slaton, Forte, and Chris Johnson come to mind from last year's draft alone).

The ideal breakdown:
Cutler-30-35 passes per game (3 or 4 bombs off of play action, but mosly intermediate throws of 10-15 yards per completion as well as the swing passes to the rb and a screen or two to Marshall or Royal)
Marshall/Royal-15-18 catches between them (mix up how we use each one week to week)
Stokley/Scheffler-8-10 catches between each (keeping Scheff involved is absolutely critical to the success of the passing game as we learned this year)
? at rb-15-20 carries per game, 4-5 catches per game
Pittman/Hillis-10-15 carries per game between the two of them (Hillis could also be a very dangerous receiver out of the fullback position)

[Popps]

We were never as effective as when we were running the ball well with Hillis.
It wasn't even close. Pounding the ball on 1st down, or at least the ability to... will absolutely make Jay Cutler much more effective.

Again, I think if Hillis stays healthy.... we make the playoffs and have a chance to upset Indy.

Funny thought, because Shanahan might have kept his job.

[HooptyHoops]

if it ain't broke don't fix it. our offense is rolling. just wait for a healthy running game.

:thumbs:

[Play2win]

We were never as effective as when we were running the ball well with Hillis.
It wasn't even close. Pounding the ball on 1st down, or at least the ability to... will absolutely make Jay Cutler much more effective.

Again, I think if Hillis stays healthy.... we make the playoffs and have a chance to upset Indy.

Funny thought, because Shanahan might have kept his job.

When we were pounding the ball forward with HILLIS, it gave the middle of the field back to our passing game, so we could pass to scheff, royal, marshal, graham, slot machine, etc., etc., etc...

[footstepsfrom#27]

Balance is the most desirable attribute of a championship offense. Under Shanahan cira 1997-98 we proved that a dominating rushing attack covers a multitude of defensive sins. Even the 2005 Plummer led team made up for an average defense by controling time of possession. Now mix in helacious offensive weapons for Cutler's arm and you have the makings of a team that could return us to the Elway glory years if we can rebuild the defense. Anytime you can run the ball it makes your passing options just that much more powerful. When teams have to put a safety in the box to slow down your running game it's tough enough to control the pass, but when the offense also has the ability to trot out Culter's arm with two or three excellent receiver, a deep threat at TE who can stretch the field, and a short option FB who can run after the catch...that's a tremendous amount of pressure for any defense to handle. The 2005 team led the NFL in TOP and that plus an excellent turnover ratio is why we went 13-3 and made the AFC title game. I would suggest however, that this offense has the ability to go to a hybrid WCO/spread offense at will if they incoporated it into the gameplan. I'm hoping to see Chad Jackson display the kind of performance his potential suggests and I could even see Scheffler lining up as a reciver in some formations. What I don't want to see is the new guy completely revaping the offensive philosophy to something that goes away from the strength of this team, which is now the offensive line. A pure power running game for example, that relies on earth movers rather than agile linemen. Clady, Kuper and Harris should be utilized in a stretch zone running game if we're maximizing their talents.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I voted true west coast, but I don't like any of those options. The offensive line is outstanding for its youth and the fact that we had to be so one dimensional. Cutler has the talent to be a superstar passer if we can be more balanced and get a defense that can keep games close. The receivers are only going to get better. Everyone that wants to get back to a power running game has a valid point, but I say we would be better off getting a fast, agile back (but one who isn't incapable of running between the tackles) with good hands that we can use similar to a Marshall Faulk. Someone like a LeSean McCoy, or better yet, Jahvid Best next year. I want to see a rb who can get his 100 yards on 15-20 carries, as well as 4 or 5 catches for 40 or 50 yards a game. That would give us unbelievable versatility and would make it completely impossible for a defense to gameplan to stop one guy. A back like that matched up against a lb in coverage would be a huge mismatch. If you don't respect the run (like teams didn't this year) then you'll get gashed for 20+ yard runs consistently. Or you can stack the line and leave Brandon, Eddie, and Scheffler in man coverage and let Jay pick you apart. Pittman and Hillis are pretty good in short yardage, so we could keep them for 3rd and 1s. Remember, a power running game is only effective with an effective defense (which we don't currently have) and running the ball 40 times a game will minimize the times that we put the ball in the hands of a franchise quarterbacks and our outstanding receivers. Balance, unpredictability, and game breaking speed is what I want to see in an offense. We have all of the pieces for this except a playmaking rb, and let's be honest, that is not too hard to find if you sit down and look (Slaton, Forte, and Chris Johnson come to mind from last year's draft alone).

The ideal breakdown:
Cutler-30-35 passes per game (3 or 4 bombs off of play action, but mosly intermediate throws of 10-15 yards per completion as well as the swing passes to the rb and a screen or two to Marshall or Royal)
Marshall/Royal-15-18 catches between them (mix up how we use each one week to week)
Stokley/Scheffler-8-10 catches between each (keeping Scheff involved is absolutely critical to the success of the passing game as we learned this year)
? at rb-15-20 carries per game, 4-5 catches per game
Pittman/Hillis-10-15 carries per game between the two of them (Hillis could also be a very dangerous receiver out of the fullback position)
Good breakdown. What do you think of using Hillis as an Alstot type FB who can get 12 carries and catch 5 passes out of the backfield to go along with a feature back like the one you describe? I think that's the ideal balance for our passing game, with a multi-purpose scatback like Alridge mixed in as the change of pace guy who can play a role like Sproles does in SD. I see this offense most effective running 35 times a game and passing 30.

BTW...it won't be long before you're told your to long winded...ignore it! :rofl:

[AbileneBroncoFan]

Good breakdown. What do you think of using Hillis as an Alstot type FB who can get 12 carries and catch 5 passes out of the backfield to go along with a feature back like the one you describe? I think that's the ideal balance for our passing game, with a multi-purpose scatback like Alridge mixed in as the change of pace guy who can play a role like Sproles does in SD. I see this offense most effective running 35 times a game and passing 30.

BTW...it won't be long before you're told your to long winded...ignore it! :rofl:

That would be ideal. The more diverse we are and the greater the variety of guys we get the ball to, the better off we are. That also minimizes the risk of guys getting injured or worn down as the season progresses. I'm tired of us starting off so strong, getting me to think "this could be the year" only to finish pitifully. The new coach needs to address this. 35-30 pass-run to 30-35 is about the range I'm looking for, depending on the weaknesses of who we are playing and who is running, throwing, and/or catching well that week. I strongly believe in versatility and balance, but not just for its own sake. I also believe if you are gutting them with the run or pass, you should continue to do so until they prove they can stop it.

I've been told I write too much on my high school essays and now that I'm in college. But I am also very thorough. I can't help it. It's worked out ok so far anyway. Lol.:thanku:

[Broncoman13]

Continue to keep the offense pass oriented. That's where the talent is and that's where the matchups are. Maintain the ZBS when we do run. Continue to use bubble screens in uncovered situations. In fact, I'd like to see the screen game expanded beyond that. Royal has great speed and can make huge plays in space and Marshall is the king of YAC. More middle screens and quick screens to the WRs, not just the bubbles to the slot recievers. This is a surefire way to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers, with a chance for a huge play if its blocked properly. It eliminates the problem of designing combos to beat coverages and predicting coverages, etc. It's a great way to keep defenses from blitzing, too. I'd like us to throw 5-7 screens per game to the wide recievers, not including the bubbles vs. uncovered.

We can creep towards more balance when we get a true stud buffalo in the backfield. But the ratio should always be based on where the talent is and where the favorable matchups are.

Do you think that's going to help our redzone woes? As the year went on I noticed that Clady's run blocking improved dramatically. I know that we have typically been a run right team over the years and that it's easier for a RH RB to cut left, but running behind Clady might be the ticket here!

[Raidersbane]

I think it's rather simple to understand that we must commit to having a consistant successful running game. We have to eat the clock. I want our defense to spend as little time as possible on the field.

[nickademus]

no dumbass. in its true form a WCO is running and short dink and dunk passes. Gruden is the coach who runs the closest thing to a WCO. he runs and has short high percentage passes.

us on the other hand, we are a WCO in the sense that we are run first(not counting this season) but when it comes to the passing game, with Jay's arm we will never be a true WCO, we will run the ball a lot, but rather than easy high percentage passes, we will gamble on downfield passing from Jay.

OK asshat learn to read. I never said that we Dink and Dunk in fact I said we didnt. I also didnt say we ran a true WCO I said we run Shanny's WCO with a ZBS and I dont think we will go away from it and hopefully we will be able to run even better with some healthy HBs giving us the running game that makes this system so damn effective.

[rastaman]

So, what's the opinion on what Denver's new offensive identity should be? During the early Shanahan days is was a two headed beast of Elway/TD. For most of the later years is was a run first to set up the pass game scheme that provided very consistent production and good (but not Elway/TD calibre) balance.

In '08 Denver shifted (intentionally or unintentionally) in a huge way toward a passing offense. It hasn't even been a pass first to set up the run, but just pass all day long.

So the question is: What do people want our offense to be? (poll coming)

The biggest danger Bowlen can allow to happen is to fire the coach.....yet keep the fired coaches offensive schemes/blue print!!! You are asking for a disaster.

Also, for the owner to demand the new HC to keep remnants of the fired HC's offense is insulting to the new HC that is hired!

The smart thing for Bowlen to do in this situation is to hire a coach that is thoroughly competent in the WEST COAST OFFENSE, and allow the HC to run a hybrid WCO that has the new coach influences and schemes. It will be up to Bates and Cutler to adjust. Keep in mind that the new Denver Bronco HC may insist upon replacing Bates as well.

Every newly hired HC wants to be given the situation to loose or win with their own staff they feel the most comfortable with and with their own scheme.....or why bother taking the job in the first place.

PSST.....HEY BOWLEN AND BRONCO FANS.....YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!!!

[chaz]

The biggest danger Bowlen can allow to happen is to fire the coach.....yet keep the fired coaches offensive schemes/blue print!!! You are asking for a disaster.

Also, for the owner to demand the new HC to keep remnants of the fired HC's offense is insulting to the new HC that is hired!

The smart thing for Bowlen to do in this situation is to hire a coach that is thoroughly competent in the WEST COAST OFFENSE, and allow the HC to run a hybrid WCO that has the new coach influences and schemes. It will be up to Bates and Cutler to adjust. Keep in mind that the new Denver Bronco HC may insist upon replacing Bates as well.

Every newly hired HC wants to be given the situation to loose or win with their own staff they feel the most comfortable with and with their own scheme.....or why bother taking the job in the first place.

PSST.....HEY BOWLEN AND BRONCO FANS.....YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!!!

I agree that trying to keep our offense together could be problematic, however there is no cake to be had/eaten. The broncos cake was thrown on the floor and I'm just trying to catch a crumb off the floor.

[Doggcow]

I'd like us to move to a hurry up passing attack, a-la Indianapolis.

[tsiguy96]

I'd like us to move to a hurry up passing attack, a-la Indianapolis.

im not sure cutler or anyone else on the offense would be ready for that yet.

[supermanhr9]

im not sure cutler or anyone else on the offense would be ready for that yet.

I disagree, I think Cutler would love that. He wants to run the spread every play if it was up to him

[supermanhr9]

im not sure cutler or anyone else on the offense would be ready for that yet.

I apologize I misread your post. He might love it, but you're right, I don't know if anyone on that offense is ready for that, especially since we have never really done that before.