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MVP-06
01-02-2009, 11:07 AM
If Hypothetically Moreno is available along with these other three, who do you want?

A. Moreno
B. T. Mays
C. Curry
D. Maualuga



I know our defense was our weakness, however im not throwing my shoe at the TV if we go with Moreno. Reminds me a little of AP

DarkHorse
01-02-2009, 11:09 AM
If Hypothetically Moreno is available along with these other three, who do you want?

A. Moreno
B. T. Mays
C. Curry
D. Maualuga



I know our defense was our weakness, however im not throwing my shoe at the TV if we go with Moreno. Reminds me a little of AP


I'm a Chris Wells fan personally. He's from the neighborhood, went to HS with my son 2 blocks away at Garfield and he's a very nice kid. His game speaks for itself.

ohiobronco2
01-02-2009, 11:12 AM
If Hypothetically Moreno is available along with these other three, who do you want?

A. Moreno
B. T. Mays
C. Curry
D. Maualuga



I know our defense was our weakness, however im not throwing my shoe at the TV if we go with Moreno. Reminds me a little of AP

What is it that reminds you of AP? Is it the lack of size, speed, or physicality? I'd take any of those guys over Moreno.

MVP-06
01-02-2009, 11:12 AM
Would you be ok with the Wells pick over a pick on our 30th ranked D?

ohiobronco2
01-02-2009, 11:16 AM
Would you be ok with the Wells pick over a pick on our 30th ranked D?

I like Beanie a lot, for obvious reasons. I'd rather take an impact player on D at this time. I might change my mind depending on who declares, who is our coach, combine results, compensatory picks, and who we pick up in FA. ;D

elsid13
01-02-2009, 11:17 AM
If Hypothetically Moreno is available along with these other three, who do you want?

A. Moreno
B. T. Mays
C. Curry
D. Maualuga



I know our defense was our weakness, however im not throwing my shoe at the TV if we go with Moreno. Reminds me a little of AP

No well, I don't think Moreno will that good a back in the NFl

of your list

Curry
Mays
Raji
Maualuga
moreno

no-pseudo-fan
01-02-2009, 11:19 AM
This is going to be a defensive draft, mostly. The first guy we take is going to have to be a starter out of the box.

lex
01-02-2009, 11:21 AM
Wells is the only RB Im interested in taking at 12 and Id very much like to have him. I think he could be the game controlling RB we need that is both physical and also is able to take it the distance. I think a game controlling RB could help the D enormously.

lex
01-02-2009, 11:21 AM
Would you be ok with the Wells pick over a pick on our 30th ranked D?

How can you ask this when youre the one who proposed Moreno?

nickademus
01-02-2009, 11:24 AM
I like Moreno better than Wells. That said I feel like the list should be:
Curry
Spikes
Nitus
Maualuga
Moreno
Wells
Of the three first round MLB's I really think that Spikes will be the best pro, however Curry is a freak of nature and I doubt he makes it out of the top ten picks. I like Rey Rey as a Sam but as a MLB he reminds me to much of Webster only more explosive. Unless Mt. Cody comes out I dont want a first round DT I am not real impressed with the DE's in this draft either. I feel like the combine will answer alot of questions this year.

bronco0608
01-02-2009, 11:25 AM
I like Beanie a lot, for obvious reasons. I'd rather take an impact player on D at this time. I might change my mind depending on who declares, who is our coach, combine results, compensatory picks, and who we pick up in FA. ;D

Knowshon Moreno is just as good if not better than Wells. Wells gets the hype from playing in a soft conference against soft opponents. I would like to see Wells get 1600 yards in the SEC like Moreno did. Personally, I don't think he could do it.

Beanie Wells might very well be the next Mike Anderson. At his size, he doesn't have the breakaway speed to be anything more than that.

Hell, Patrick Hillis might be better than Wells.

DarkHorse
01-02-2009, 11:26 AM
Wells is the only RB Im interested in taking at 12 and Id very much like to have him. I think he could be the game controlling RB we need that is both physical and also is able to take it the distance. I think a game controlling RB could help the D enormously.


:thumbsup:

nickademus
01-02-2009, 11:29 AM
Wells is the only RB Im interested in taking at 12 and Id very much like to have him. I think he could be the game controlling RB we need that is both physical and also is able to take it the distance. I think a game controlling RB could help the D enormously.

Doesnt his injury history bother you? if this kid hadnt been so nicked up the past few years I would like him a hell of a lot more. His style is perfect for us and you cant deny his talent but I hate that he misses time the way he does, and there are rumers that he doesnt like to practice. Who knows maybe he would be different as a pro but there are definitely some off the field stuff here that has less to do with character and more to do with professionalism and if he can fix this or if its all BS then great but if not take a LB and give me Shaun Green or Davis in the 2nd or 3rd. I have a feeling that Moreno is going to have a bad Combine and could slip to the 2nd and I love him in the second.

nickademus
01-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Knowshon Moreno is just as good if not better than Wells. Wells gets the hype from playing in a soft conference against soft opponents. I would like to see Wells get 1600 yards in the SEC like Moreno did. Personally, I don't think he could do it.

Beanie Wells might very well be the next Mike Anderson. At his size, he doesn't have the breakaway speed to be anything more than that.

Hell, Peyton Hillis might be better than Wells.

Fixed it for you.

lex
01-02-2009, 11:35 AM
Knowshon Moreno is just as good if not better than Wells. Wells gets the hype from playing in a soft conference against soft opponents. I would like to see Wells get 1600 yards in the SEC like Moreno did. Personally, I don't think he could do it.

Beanie Wells might very well be the next Mike Anderson. At his size, he doesn't have the breakaway speed to be anything more than that.

Hell, Patrick Hillis might be better than Wells.

On the contrary, I dote on the SEC as much as the next guy but the fact of the matter is, when its a big game, Wells comes up big. Check out what he did against LSU last year in the NC game. Also, every time he has played against Michigan, he has had TDs of over 50 yards.

lex
01-02-2009, 11:37 AM
Doesnt his injury history bother you? if this kid hadnt been so nicked up the past few years I would like him a hell of a lot more. His style is perfect for us and you cant deny his talent but I hate that he misses time the way he does, and there are rumers that he doesnt like to practice. Who knows maybe he would be different as a pro but there are definitely some off the field stuff here that has less to do with character and more to do with professionalism and if he can fix this or if its all BS then great but if not take a LB and give me Shaun Green or Davis in the 2nd or 3rd. I have a feeling that Moreno is going to have a bad Combine and could slip to the 2nd and I love him in the second.

He had 1600 yards with a bad ankle and a bad wrist? I like it that he can perform through that. I think this year was his first stint of missing games. I think he has only missed one game a year from injury if you average it out, though I could be wrong on that.

Br0nc0Buster
01-02-2009, 11:55 AM
Wells?
No thanks
Moreno?
maybe

But I would rather have Spikes, Curry, Brown, Johnson, Mays, or one of the top DTs over a RB in the first

MVP-06
01-02-2009, 12:51 PM
How can you ask this when youre the one who proposed Moreno?

I didn't propose Moreno, just saying most of the people seem to be wanting an impact defensive pick (me included). Just curious to see if this board would explode if we did go with an RB pick. Personally I think Moreno is a game changer. Im not big on Beanie but you can't argue with his stats.

Just wanting to see what people want more, a stud RB or stud defender

ohiobronco2
01-02-2009, 12:52 PM
Knowshon Moreno is just as good if not better than Wells. Wells gets the hype from playing in a soft conference against soft opponents. I would like to see Wells get 1600 yards in the SEC like Moreno did. Personally, I don't think he could do it.

Beanie Wells might very well be the next Mike Anderson. At his size, he doesn't have the breakaway speed to be anything more than that.

Hell, Patrick Hillis might be better than Wells.

You must not watch enough Buckeye football. He has plenty of break away speed. He was clocked at a 4.5 forty as a senior in HS. I imagine with a speed coach, he will run faster at the combine. He averaged 7.3 yards a rush against LSU last season. The great Darren McFadden rushed for 6.4 against the same D. If anything, it was harder for Wells, he was facing a healthy Glenn Dorsey. As far as his injury past, he didn't miss a game last year while dealing with ankle and wrist injuries. He said he was ready to go this season by the USC game, but Tressel wouldn't let him play. I will say that I question his receiving abilities, but that is only because the Buckeyes rarely pass out of the backfield.

ohiobronco2
01-02-2009, 12:55 PM
One more thing, Moreno averaged 2.7 yards against Mich St. yesterday, Beanie ran for 4.5 yards a carry.

MVP-06
01-02-2009, 01:14 PM
What is it that reminds you of AP? Is it the lack of size, speed, or physicality? I'd take any of those guys over Moreno.

Im not quite sure if your being sarcastic or not, or you just don't watch much SEC games. But the last thing he lacks is speed or physiciality. Dude finishes runs with authority. He is 5"11 and 210 lbs so it's not like he is extremely small.

MVP-06
01-02-2009, 01:22 PM
One more thing, Moreno averaged 2.7 yards against Mich St. yesterday, Beanie ran for 4.5 yards a carry.

He still had over 120 yds. total offense and a TD in the game. BTW he averaged 5.6 ypc for the season

ohiobronco2
01-02-2009, 01:28 PM
Im not quite sure if your being sarcastic or not, or you just don't watch much SEC games. But the last thing he lacks is speed or physiciality. Dude finishes runs with authority. He is 5"11 and 210 lbs so it's not like he is extremely small.

I've watched a few of his games. I think he's a damn good back, but I'm partial to Beanie. Could just be my own personal bias, but I've watched all of his games and I've found him to be dominant in nearly all. Yesterday Moreno didn't show up against Mich St at all. I bet he runs a 4.4 like Peterson, may even be faster, but I haven't seen him run over people the way Peterson did and I know he isn't nearly as physical as Beanie. But it doesn't matter to me, I don't want a RB in the first round.

ohiobronco2
01-02-2009, 01:32 PM
He still had over 120 yds. total offense and a TD in the game. BTW he averaged 5.6 ypc for the season

Michigan St. has the 71st rush D in the NCAA. Not exactly elite competition and he still put up mediocre stats.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2009, 01:38 PM
Would you be ok with the Wells pick over a pick on our 30th ranked D?

YES!!!

regardless of who we pick on defense in this draft, our defensive unit will still be a work in progress, and again we will lean on the offense to win games. so to aid Cutler and the rest of the offense, as well as keep the time our defense in on the field a RB makes a lot of sense. plus it is an immediate playmaker addition to the team and our points scored goes up, we become more consistent, Jay has better passing options, and we become a complete balanced offense.

Dedhed
01-02-2009, 01:54 PM
We should steal Sproles and not worry about RB in the draft until day 2.

chaz
01-02-2009, 02:56 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=75188

I don't think Moreno is worth #12, but he should definitely be considered if we keep the ZBS...he would be a stud.

2. Knowshon Moreno, Georgia**
5-10Że, 210e, 4.45e

A very naturally instinctive runner, Moreno can do it all. He’s both sudden and strong, capable of running through or around tacklers, and has shown game-breaking, game-changing ability. Is not easily hit squarely and might lack excellent top-end speed but consistently has shown he can finish runs. Has a very natural feel for finding running lanes, can run inside with authority and shows the perimeter quickness to take the corner. Grades out similarly to Cadillac Williams in the area of competitiveness, and Moreno’s passion for the game is clearly evident every time he touches the ball. Runs with excellent peripheral vision, great balance and pad level. Is able to stay on his feet through clutter and scoot to daylight. A highlight-reel runner, Moreno is an impact player who is expected to declare as a redshirt sophomore.

DOES THIS GUY NOT SCREAM BRONCOS RB?!?!

Play2win
01-02-2009, 03:03 PM
who says were still in a ZBS...

Just sayin'... :)

chaz
01-02-2009, 03:10 PM
who says were still in a ZBS...

Just sayin'... :)

I know...I said if. But quite honestly I would really question the ability of the new HC, who ever it is, if they disregard our offensive success and start over. Our RB's/OL would instantly go from tops in the league to mediocre...not a smart by move by any coach, new or old.

Play2win
01-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Its just that, I get a feeling that a lot of the D-CORDs out there are finding ways to successfully combat the ZBS... Now that we have Cutler, a straight forward, or off-tackle, rushing attack that could net us 3-4-5 yard most times, is all Cutler really needs to break open the passing game.

It would be like the power running attack would be the body blows, and Cutler would be the Uppercuts and Hooks that would know the opponent the **** out...

elsid13
01-02-2009, 03:19 PM
Its just that, I get a feeling that a lot of the D-CORDs out there are finding ways to successfully combat the ZBS... Now that we have Cutler, a straight forward, or off-tackle, rushing attack that could net us 3-4-5 yard most times, is all Cutler really needs to break open the passing game.

It would be like the power running attack would be the body blows, and Cutler would be the Uppercuts and Hooks that would know the opponent the **** out...

ZBS is power running game and if was ineffective why are more teams incorporating it into their systems.

Play2win
01-02-2009, 03:28 PM
ZBS is power running game and if was ineffective why are more teams incorporating it into their systems.

I just wonder if we have a straight forward rushing attack instead of so many stretches... It might open up more opportunities in the passing game...

The games when HILLIS was kicking butt seemed to have a different look and feel... with different results... and I REALLY LIKE IT...

Play2win
01-02-2009, 03:29 PM
ZBS is power running game and if was ineffective why are more teams incorporating it into their systems.

Not many other teams have a JAY CUTLER on them. 8')

chaz
01-02-2009, 03:30 PM
Its just that, I get a feeling that a lot of the D-CORDs out there are finding ways to successfully combat the ZBS... Now that we have Cutler, a straight forward, or off-tackle, rushing attack that could net us 3-4-5 yard most times, is all Cutler really needs to break open the passing game.

This season we wen through 8 RB's and still averaged 4.8 yds/attempt (tied for 2nd in the league)...tell me now that we were ineffective.

chaz
01-02-2009, 03:31 PM
on that note, we ranked 28th in attempts/game...no balance. Hopefully getting healthy we can restore that balance and take advantage of our ballin oline

Play2win
01-02-2009, 03:32 PM
This season we wen through 8 RB's and still averaged 4.8 yds/attempt (tied for 2nd in the league)...tell me now that we were ineffective.

Right, but to me (little 'ol me), when we had HILLIS running we were the MOST EFFECTIVE...

And I'm not sure how much of a true ZBS that actually was...


Bottom line... I just want it to work. :)

chaz
01-02-2009, 03:35 PM
Right, but to me (little 'ol me), when we had HILLIS running we were the MOST EFFECTIVE...

And I'm not sure how much of a true ZBS that actually was...


Bottom line... I just want it to work. :)

:thumbs: I'm with you. I just think what we did this year despite injuries is reason enough to stick with the system. No other team could have been as successful under our circumstances. What further proof is needed to stick with the ZBS?

As for Hillis, I think he is a true one-cut runner. He just adds the "I don't care if you're in my way, I'll go through you" attitude, which I love. We need bigger backs to gain with vision to be consistent, not scat back/4.3 40's at 195 lbs.

elsid13
01-02-2009, 03:36 PM
I just wonder if we have a straight forward rushing attack instead of so many stretches... It might open up more opportunities in the passing game...

The games when HILLIS was kicking butt seemed to have a different look and feel... with different results... and I REALLY LIKE IT...

They shifted a little but Denver was running inside zone blocking schemes vs outside stuff they ran with Young and Tatum.

The problem was the only back that had the ability to run both inside and outside was Torain and his ass got hurt.

nickademus
01-02-2009, 05:33 PM
We should steal Sproles and not worry about RB in the draft until day 2.

or maybe we could just re-sign Quinten Griffen? Sproles is not an every down back and just because he shreds our D does not me he will be effective against the rest of the NFL I absolutely hate seeing this crap.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2009, 05:39 PM
:thumbs: I'm with you. I just think what we did this year despite injuries is reason enough to stick with the system. No other team could have been as successful under our circumstances. What further proof is needed to stick with the ZBS?

As for Hillis, I think he is a true one-cut runner. He just adds the "I don't care if you're in my way, I'll go through you" attitude, which I love. We need bigger backs to gain with vision to be consistent, not scat back/4.3 40's at 195 lbs.


i have been saying that for years. it is nice that others are finally getting onto that way of thinking.

when we had Hillis running the ball, we weren't using the ZBS, we were just doing straight ahead running, similar to what the Giants do with Jacobs and Ward.

and i agree we need someone who isn't going to try and juke a LB or be shifty like we have tried to make work. i want a guy like Hillis or Jacobs who will lower the pads and put a LB on his ass.

And for that reason, I say bring in SHONN GREENE!!

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2009, 05:41 PM
We should steal Sproles and not worry about RB in the draft until day 2.

to be a return man and change of pace RB to the big bruiser we need to get, i am all for it, as long as it is on a small contract.

why does everyone seem to think that just because he seems to shred our defense that he could be an every down back for us?

he is like 5'9" and 180lbs, no way in hell could he be a feature RB.

Inkana7
01-02-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm a Chris Wells fan personally. He's from the neighborhood, went to HS with my son 2 blocks away at Garfield and he's a very nice kid. His game speaks for itself.

Dude, you're like 45 minutes from me. I'm from outside of Y-Town.

mattob14
01-02-2009, 06:34 PM
This season we wen through 8 RB's and still averaged 4.8 yds/attempt (tied for 2nd in the league)...tell me now that we were ineffective.

Our running game was ineffective this year. The YPC is inflated because we used the passing game as our primary weapon and that opened up a few opportunities for the running game. Look at Tatum, he busted off those two long runs, but was otherwise ineffective. We need to be able to count on the running game to produce in crucial situations, allowing us to use the play-action game again and really open things up for Cutler.

socalorado
01-02-2009, 06:37 PM
I say forget Wells. And i like Wells. Get Shonn Greene in the 2nd. Problem solved. Dude ran for over 100 yards in EVERY GAME (13) this year. Hes a freakin beast, and is the most NFL ready back out there. He would complete the offense, and DEN could still get an impact defensive player.
Get Spikes, Curry, or REY REY, in the 1st.

lex
01-02-2009, 06:39 PM
I say forget Wells. And i like Wells. Get Shonn Greene in the 2nd. Problem solved. Dude ran for over 100 yards in EVERY GAME (13) this year. Hes a freakin beast, and is the most NFL ready back out there. He would complete the offense, and DEN could still get an impact defensive player.
Get Spikes, Curry, or REY REY, in the 1st.

Id rather get LaGarrette Blount in Rd 3 if we're going to settle.


...but this guy would be better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idzbqGlDdUo&feature=related

DarkHorse
01-02-2009, 06:45 PM
Will Shonn Greene be available in the 2nd rnd? If so, that's great value considering his production.

socalorado
01-02-2009, 08:42 PM
Id rather get LaGarrette Blount in Rd 3 if we're going to settle.


...but this guy would be better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idzbqGlDdUo&feature=related

I know man. I like him too. Hes a beast. But not getting one of the top defensive players on this team would be a bigger blow. I just cant see taking a Jason Phillips or Worrell Williams and think it will make up for it.
Blount is good too. Greene is just an all around solid player in every aspect of the game. he would come in, take over the #1 spot, and be super productive. And DEn gets a top tier defensive player. its a win win.
If DEN takes Wells, i'll just sit there and smile though.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2009, 10:21 PM
Id rather get LaGarrette Blount in Rd 3 if we're going to settle.


...but this guy would be better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idzbqGlDdUo&feature=related

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i'll take this guy, even if we need to pick him in the 1st. trade back from 12 into the 20's and get him there, but this guy will make our offense unstoppable.
also, for everyone who says he is slow, take a look, he has game speed, and once he gets into the secondary, no one is going to catch him. he is good for 5 yards per carry and is the best RB in college.

socalorado
01-02-2009, 10:42 PM
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i'll take this guy, even if we need to pick him in the 1st. trade back from 12 into the 20's and get him there, but this guy will make our offense unstoppable.
also, for everyone who says he is slow, take a look, he has game speed, and once he gets into the secondary, no one is going to catch him. he is good for 5 yards per carry and is the best RB in college.

He Runs like Emmit Smith.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2009, 11:09 PM
He Runs like Emmit Smith.

and in Denver if injury doesn't hit him, he can break every single record Emmit holds.

there are a few clips in there that show his patience as a runner, great vision and ability to finish runs. also i never see him run out of bounds, he either takes it in for 6 or runs over at least one dude before he is finally tackled.
he would be a pro bowl pick and rookie of the year guaranteed if he plays in Denver.

socalorado
01-02-2009, 11:31 PM
and in Denver if injury doesn't hit him, he can break every single record Emmit holds.

there are a few clips in there that show his patience as a runner, great vision and ability to finish runs. also i never see him run out of bounds, he either takes it in for 6 or runs over at least one dude before he is finally tackled.
he would be a pro bowl pick and rookie of the year guaranteed if he plays in Denver.

I dont even think DEN will need to move back to get him. I think maybe moving up in the 2nd to secure him would be smart, and DEN has the picks/players to do it.
Hes a slam dunk, man. Look how low he gets with his pad level. Hes a freakin running fire hydrant! Talk about wearing defenses down and getting stronger as the game goes. He fits the bill perfectly.
I have had him in all my mocks so far here.
DEN needs 3 impact players in the 1st 3 rounds and 2 impact FAs this offseason.
1st REY REY SPIKES CURRY
2nd GREENE
3rd RASHAD JOHNSON SEAN SMITH NIC HARRIS

FAs
OJ ATOGWE
ALBERT HAYNESWORTH (maybe, i know pipe dream)
KELLY WASHINGTON
Something like this.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2009, 11:50 PM
I dont even think DEN will need to move back to get him. I think maybe moving up in the 2nd to secure him would be smart, and DEN has the picks/players to do it.
Hes a slam dunk, man. Look how low he gets with his pad level. Hes a freakin running fire hydrant! Talk about wearing defenses down and getting stronger as the game goes. He fits the bill perfectly.
I have had him in all my mocks so far here.
DEN needs 3 impact players in the 1st 3 rounds and 2 impact FAs this offseason.
1st REY REY SPIKES CURRY
2nd GREENE
3rd RASHAD JOHNSON SEAN SMITH NIC HARRIS

FAs
OJ ATOGWE
ALBERT HAYNESWORTH (maybe, i know pipe dream)
KELLY WASHINGTON
Something like this.

that offseason would give me major wood for next season. the rest of the draft and undrafted FA's, UFA's and trades we get will just be gravy on top of that.

BroncoMan4ever
01-02-2009, 11:54 PM
With the big 3 FA's this offseason. Does anyone have a list of the guys who are available at the same positions as the big 3?

because i am thinking that in the case of the big 3, we should no matter what take a shot at Haynesworth, but also try to go after the guys who are almost as good as the big 3 right away, while every other franchise is going after those guys.

Breaker
01-03-2009, 12:59 AM
If Hypothetically Moreno is available along with these other three, who do you want?

A. Moreno
B. T. Mays
C. Curry
D. Maualuga



I know our defense was our weakness, however im not throwing my shoe at the TV if we go with Moreno. Reminds me a little of AP

Mays
Curry
Mauluga
Moreno

I think drafting a RB is absolutely insane. When Derrick Ward is a Free Agent and would be an phenomenal fit for us. But then again I am the one who wanted Micheal Turner last year and was excoriated on this board for wanting that so what do I know about RB's. :thanku:

footstepsfrom#27
01-03-2009, 04:27 AM
Mays. He's the headhunter we need to put teeth in this D.

lex
01-03-2009, 05:45 AM
Mays
Curry
Mauluga
Moreno

I think drafting a RB is absolutely insane. When Derrick Ward is a Free Agent and would be an phenomenal fit for us. But then again I am the one who wanted Micheal Turner last year and was excoriated on this board for wanting that so what do I know about RB's. :thanku:

People dont want FA running backs. Why, when we can draft our own guy? Save those FA dollars for another position.

lex
01-03-2009, 05:49 AM
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i'll take this guy, even if we need to pick him in the 1st. trade back from 12 into the 20's and get him there, but this guy will make our offense unstoppable.
also, for everyone who says he is slow, take a look, he has game speed, and once he gets into the secondary, no one is going to catch him. he is good for 5 yards per carry and is the best RB in college.

Of the RBs in college, he plays in the most RB friendly system. Its as simple as that. And I dont know why you would show those clips. He's kind of slow.

lex
01-03-2009, 05:50 AM
He Runs like Emmit Smith.

good grief.

Elway777
01-03-2009, 07:18 AM
Would you be ok with the Wells pick over a pick on our 30th ranked D? I would be o.k with Wells or Moreno because I really like both players. Mays most likely will be gone by 12 pick . I really like Raji but the 12 pick is real high for him. I also like Dannell Ellerbe and Jason Phillips as 3 round Mikes.If the Broncos can sign Haynesworth then that would really open up things for taking a running back.

elsid13
01-03-2009, 07:24 AM
Would you be ok with the Wells pick over a pick on our 30th ranked D?

A good running game that can control the clock helps a bad defense.

nickademus
01-03-2009, 08:01 AM
A good running game that can control the clock helps a bad defense.

This is the whole reason some of us have been asking for a RB for a while. Actually after we traded Portis I really thought we were taking Stephen Jackson in the draft that year oh well that worked out right?

Punisher
01-03-2009, 08:01 AM
Would you be ok with the Wells pick over a pick on our 30th ranked D?

Alot of people don't know a good running back is a good Cure for a bad D

DarkHorse
01-03-2009, 08:05 AM
I'm just very leary about taking a d-lineman in the first round. It's not very often that you're going to get lucky and get a Haynesworth, Peppers, Freeney, Uminyora, etc.....

I'd rather put the bucks in FA for a proven pass rusher and pick up a RB that will start right away and contribute. A power RB will add a couple more minutes to our TOP and give the D a much needed break.

BroncoMan4ever
01-03-2009, 03:16 PM
Of the RBs in college, he plays in the most RB friendly system. Its as simple as that. And I dont know why you would show those clips. He's kind of slow.

there aren't many guys with his size and power who can run a 4.3 forty. also, once he gets into the secondary, he doesn't get pulled down from behind.

i look at him because, he runs with a great pad level, runs hard, has good feet, good vision, is a patient runner, is the most NFL ready RB in this draft.

Also he played in a RB friendly situation in college, and in Denver it would be the same thing.

lex
01-03-2009, 04:46 PM
there aren't many guys with his size and power who can run a 4.3 forty. also, once he gets into the secondary, he doesn't get pulled down from behind.

i look at him because, he runs with a great pad level, runs hard, has good feet, good vision, is a patient runner, is the most NFL ready RB in this draft.

Also he played in a RB friendly situation in college, and in Denver it would be the same thing.


He's not the most NFL ready running back in this draft. First of all, you dont know if he just looks better because he plays in the most RB friendly offense. Also, the guy has had one good year, so theres the possibility he will be a one year wonder that drops off once he gets a contract. Youre just making stuff up now. I agree he has good pad level but theres more to it than that.

elsid13
01-03-2009, 04:56 PM
there aren't many guys with his size and power who can run a 4.3 forty. also, once he gets into the secondary, he doesn't get pulled down from behind.

i look at him because, he runs with a great pad level, runs hard, has good feet, good vision, is a patient runner, is the most NFL ready RB in this draft.

Also he played in a RB friendly situation in college, and in Denver it would be the same thing.

4.3 Forty come on be serious.

lex
01-03-2009, 04:58 PM
4.3 Forty come on be serious.

I think he is saying that big RBs like him come with trade offs. But Im not so sure Hillis isnt faster than Greene. Also, if you want to see him carry a piano on his back, check out his 75 yard run vs Purdue.

chaz
01-03-2009, 08:53 PM
Our running game was ineffective this year. The YPC is inflated because we used the passing game as our primary weapon and that opened up a few opportunities for the running game. Look at Tatum, he busted off those two long runs, but was otherwise ineffective. We need to be able to count on the running game to produce in crucial situations, allowing us to use the play-action game again and really open things up for Cutler.

YPC is inflated for any team...every RB breaks longer runs now and then. The offensive line did a good job this year opening up holes for whoever the flavor of the week behind them was. Had we stayed healthy at the position, the run could have been called more enabling the play action, yes. But to say we couldn't run the ball effectively is simply incorrect.

lex
01-03-2009, 09:02 PM
YPC is inflated for any team...every RB breaks longer runs now and then. The offensive line did a good job this year opening up holes for whoever the flavor of the week behind them was. Had we stayed healthy at the position, the run could have been called more enabling the play action, yes. But to say we couldn't run the ball effectively is simply incorrect.

Actually, its quite correct. We the APC is inflated due to passing the ball more. Also, look at our RBs. Theyre all mid-low round, injury risk projects. Hillis was the only one that resembled anything worth feeling good about.

mattob14
01-03-2009, 10:11 PM
YPC is inflated for any team...every RB breaks longer runs now and then. The offensive line did a good job this year opening up holes for whoever the flavor of the week behind them was. Had we stayed healthy at the position, the run could have been called more enabling the play action, yes. But to say we couldn't run the ball effectively is simply incorrect.

Look at it this way: A couple of years ago, the offense was built on the running game and Plummer was living off of the play-action pass. His numbers looked decent because he had all of the easy roll-outs and dumps to wide-open receivers on the bootleg, but when it came time to convert a third down, he couldn't sit back in the pocket and complete a pass. Enter Cutler, and his ability to stand in the pocket and put balls through tight windows.

We're in the opposite situation now: Cutler's ability to pass puts the defense on it's heals and opens some lanes for the running game, but when we're in tough short-yardage and goal-line situations, we come up short. Until we can dictate the tempo of the game with our running game and convert in tough situations, the YPC is a superficial stat. The fact we were 28th in carries shows how much faith the staff had in our ability to run: we took the yardage when we could get it but didn't have the confidence to turn the offense over to the ground. A big-time RB will correct that, the question is which RB is the right fit for this offense.

DB_champ24
01-03-2009, 10:22 PM
Look at it this way: A couple of years ago, the offense was built on the running game and Plummer was living off of the play-action pass. His numbers looked decent because he had all of the easy roll-outs and dumps to wide-open receivers on the bootleg, but when it came time to convert a third down, he couldn't sit back in the pocket and complete a pass. Enter Cutler, and his ability to stand in the pocket and put balls through tight windows.

We're in the opposite situation now: Cutler's ability to pass puts the defense on it's heals and opens some lanes for the running game, but when we're in tough short-yardage and goal-line situations, we come up short. Until we can dictate the tempo of the game with our running game and convert in tough situations, the YPC is a superficial stat. The fact we were 28th in carries shows how much faith the staff had in our ability to run: we took the yardage when we could get it but didn't have the confidence to turn the offense over to the ground. A big-time RB will correct that, the question is which RB is the right fit for this offense.

And the Answer to that problem was Peyton Hillis

BroncoMan4ever
01-03-2009, 11:24 PM
4.3 Forty come on be serious.

i was not saying Greene could run a 4.3 Forty. i was saying that with his size, power and body type, that he just as most guys with a similar frame would be unable to run a 4.3 Forty

BroncoBuff
01-04-2009, 01:36 PM
I think that even talking about drafting offense on Day 1 - with this roster - is irresponsible.

lex
01-04-2009, 01:39 PM
I think that even talking about drafting offense on Day 1 - with this roster - is irresponsible.


I think this post is pure hyperbole.

Inkana7
01-04-2009, 01:54 PM
I think this post is pure hyperbole.

That's the most preposterous statement in the history of Western Civilization.

BroncoMan4ever
01-04-2009, 09:18 PM
I think that even talking about drafting offense on Day 1 - with this roster - is irresponsible.

i think if we don't draft a RB by the 2nd round we will be lucky to go 6-10 next season.

we are 1 good RB away from having the most potent offense in the league, that would be capable of carrying a weak and rebuilding defense. how could aquiring that player be a bad or irresponsible?

ohiobronco2
01-04-2009, 09:30 PM
Statistically, Texas has the 2nd best run D in the country. We will see how great Wells is tomorrow.

lex
01-04-2009, 10:22 PM
Statistically, Texas has the 2nd best run D in the country. We will see how great Wells is tomorrow.

I almost dont want him to do too well. Id kind of like him to be there at 12.

Breaker
01-05-2009, 12:20 AM
People dont want FA running backs. Why, when we can draft our own guy? Save those FA dollars for another position.

If that is your theory on RB then why sign any FA, would it not be better to simply draft our own LB, DT, Safety, WR.

stugotsII
01-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Statistically, Texas has the 2nd best run D in the country. We will see how great Wells is tomorrow.

Wells did well, running for 98 yards in the first half. He left the game with a concussion.

I can already hear people complaining about his injury history with the injury last night.

The bottom line is that the guy is a stud running back. He was the reason the OSU defense had success in the first half last night. In the first half OSU was plus five minutes in TOP and after Wells got hurt, they really struggled to sustain drives, leaving the defense on the field basically the entire 3rd quarter.

The guy is a game changer for sure. If he's there, Denver needs to get him. If he's in striking distance, Denver needs to trade up to get him. If they can trade up to get worthless Jarvis Moss, they can trade up to get Wells. A guy that has proven time and time again that he is a big game running back.

stugotsII
01-06-2009, 02:09 PM
If that is your theory on RB then why sign any FA, would it not be better to simply draft our own LB, DT, Safety, WR.

Typically rookie running backs can contribute much faster than rookie defenders.

cmhargrove
01-06-2009, 02:39 PM
If there is any stud Rb on the board worth drafting at #12.........




Trade down and load up on defense. DE, S, DT, LB - get 'em all day long.

Inkana7
01-06-2009, 02:46 PM
Typically rookie running backs can contribute much faster than rookie defenders.

Maybe Rookie defensive linemen. But rookie LBs contribute immediately. Safeties too. Reggie Nelson played extremely well his rookie year, I recall.

nickademus
01-06-2009, 02:49 PM
And the Answer to that problem was Peyton Hillis

Hillis looked like the real deal for three games but does that make him the answer and does it really hurt to have a backup who can offer more than just a change of pace? IMHO a RB is 3 on our priority list in this draft now weather we go with 2nd or 3rd round pick I dont really care but I cant take Moreno @12 and I dont like Wells.

stugotsII
01-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Maybe Rookie defensive linemen. But rookie LBs contribute immediately. Safeties too. Reggie Nelson played extremely well his rookie year, I recall.

2008 1st round defenders:

Glenn Dorsey: 1 sack
Vernon Gholston: 0 sacks
Sedrick Ellis: 4 sacks
Derrick Harvey: 3.5 sacks
Keith Rivers: 37 tackles and 0 sacks
Jerod Mayo: 128 tackles
Leodis McKelvin: 2 Int's
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie: 4 int's
Aqib Talib: 4 int's
Mike Jenkins: 1 Int
Antoine Cason: 2 int's
Lawrence Jackson: 2 sacks
Kentwan Balmer: 0 sacks
Kenny Phillips: 1 Int

2008 1st round RB's:


Darren McFadden: 785 total yards and 4 td's
Jonathan Stewart: 836 yards and 10 td's
Felix Jones: 700 total yards and 4 td's in 6 games
Chris Johnson: 1500 total yards and 10 td's

McFadden and Jones were both injured and still produced big. All four running backs made their teams better.

There are a few defenders in the above list that produced, but not many.

lex
01-06-2009, 07:57 PM
Maybe Rookie defensive linemen. But rookie LBs contribute immediately. Safeties too. Reggie Nelson played extremely well his rookie year, I recall.

In Denver the utility factor is stronger for RBs than possibly for any position on any team, which means that they are far less likely to be a bust and to produce.

PaintballCLE
01-06-2009, 08:01 PM
Knowshon Moreno is just as good if not better than Wells. Wells gets the hype from playing in a soft conference against soft opponents. I would like to see Wells get 1600 yards in the SEC like Moreno did. Personally, I don't think he could do it.

Beanie Wells might very well be the next Mike Anderson. At his size, he doesn't have the breakaway speed to be anything more than that.

Hell, Patrick Hillis might be better than Wells.

ummmm just fyi its way harder to run in the big 10 than in the sec. The SEC is built on speed, where as the Big 10 is built on "power". I would take that kind of runner over a sec runner anytime.

lex
01-06-2009, 08:07 PM
ummmm just fyi its way harder to run in the big 10 than in the sec. The SEC is built on speed, where as the Big 10 is built on "power". I would take that kind of runner over a sec runner anytime.


Its not so much that. The SEC is extremely physical. But this year and to a lesser extent last year, Wells hasnt had a lot of help in the passing game. With Pryor back there, Wells encounters a lot of traffic since Pryors more effective as a runner than as a passer. Therefore teams are more focused on stopping the run, whether its Wells or Pryor. In the case of last year, Boeckmann is/was a better passer but he didnt have a huge arm and thats in addition to having decent WRs but ones that are far from explosive. And actually, Wells had over 140 yards last year vs LSU and averaged 7.+ per carry.

ohiobronco2
01-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Its not so much that. The SEC is extremely physical. But this year and to a lesser extent last year, Wells hasnt had a lot of help in the passing game. With Pryor back there, Wells encounters a lot of traffic since Pryors more effective as a runner than as a passer. Therefore teams are more focused on stopping the run, whether its Wells or Pryor. In the case of last year, Boeckmann is/was a better passer but he didnt have a huge arm and thats in addition to having decent WRs but ones that are far from explosive. And actually, Wells had over 140 yards last year vs LSU and averaged 7.+ per carry.

You just about hit the nail on the head. I disagree that Boeckman doesn't have a strong arm. He does, but he lacks talent at the WR position and at the first sign of a pass rush, he pees down his leg. OSU is pretty easy to defend with Pryor in the game. He is a horrible passer, so as you already stated, they face a lot of 8 man fronts.

stugotsII
01-06-2009, 10:44 PM
You just about hit the nail on the head. I disagree that Boeckman doesn't have a strong arm. He does, but he lacks talent at the WR position and at the first sign of a pass rush, he pees down his leg. OSU is pretty easy to defend with Pryor in the game. He is a horrible passer, so as you already stated, they face a lot of 8 man fronts.

Okay, some correction is requirred regarding Boeckman....

He has a live arm, however his inability to make quick decisions is what killed him...

As far as WR talent, this is also false. OSU does have WR talent. Hartline will most likely come out early and Robiskie is a stud. He will make a living as a 3rd WR in the NFL.

Pryor is NOT a horrible passer. All you have to do is take a look at the data. He is statistically the 1 rated passer in the Big Ten as a true freshmen. Couple that with his freakish ability to run the ball and he's a nightmare to defend....not easy....

That said...if Wells is there at 12 or within trading distance...Denver would be making a huge mistake not getting him.

chaz
01-07-2009, 03:23 AM
2008 1st round defenders:

Glenn Dorsey: 1 sack
Vernon Gholston: 0 sacks
Sedrick Ellis: 4 sacks
Derrick Harvey: 3.5 sacks
Keith Rivers: 37 tackles and 0 sacks
Jerod Mayo: 128 tackles
Leodis McKelvin: 2 Int's
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie: 4 int's
Aqib Talib: 4 int's
Mike Jenkins: 1 Int
Antoine Cason: 2 int's
Lawrence Jackson: 2 sacks
Kentwan Balmer: 0 sacks
Kenny Phillips: 1 Int

2008 1st round RB's:


Darren McFadden: 785 total yards and 4 td's
Jonathan Stewart: 836 yards and 10 td's
Felix Jones: 700 total yards and 4 td's in 6 games
Chris Johnson: 1500 total yards and 10 td's

McFadden and Jones were both injured and still produced big. All four running backs made their teams better.

There are a few defenders in the above list that produced, but not many.

I would expect this from northman but not you

lex
01-07-2009, 06:32 AM
Okay, some correction is requirred regarding Boeckman....

He has a live arm, however his inability to make quick decisions is what killed him...

As far as WR talent, this is also false. OSU does have WR talent. Hartline will most likely come out early and Robiskie is a stud. He will make a living as a 3rd WR in the NFL.

Pryor is NOT a horrible passer. All you have to do is take a look at the data. He is statistically the 1 rated passer in the Big Ten as a true freshmen. Couple that with his freakish ability to run the ball and he's a nightmare to defend....not easy....

That said...if Wells is there at 12 or within trading distance...Denver would be making a huge mistake not getting him.

I dont think I said the WRs have no talent. I believe that I said they're not explosive meaning that there is no one to really back the defense off the LOS. Also, when looking at Pryors statistics, you have to keep in mind that he has more of a window to deliver the ball than a lot of QBs because of his run threat. But if you watch him sit back in the pocket, it just seems he misses a lot. But anytime you get him moving, things open up.

MVP-06
01-07-2009, 08:43 AM
2008 1st round defenders:

Glenn Dorsey: 1 sack
Vernon Gholston: 0 sacks
Sedrick Ellis: 4 sacks
Derrick Harvey: 3.5 sacks
Keith Rivers: 37 tackles and 0 sacks
Jerod Mayo: 128 tackles
Leodis McKelvin: 2 Int's
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie: 4 int's
Aqib Talib: 4 int's
Mike Jenkins: 1 Int
Antoine Cason: 2 int's
Lawrence Jackson: 2 sacks
Kentwan Balmer: 0 sacks
Kenny Phillips: 1 Int

2008 1st round RB's:


Darren McFadden: 785 total yards and 4 td's
Jonathan Stewart: 836 yards and 10 td's
Felix Jones: 700 total yards and 4 td's in 6 games
Chris Johnson: 1500 total yards and 10 td's

McFadden and Jones were both injured and still produced big. All four running backs made their teams better.

There are a few defenders in the above list that produced, but not many.

Defenders take a couple of more years to make a big impact. Ozzie Newsome spent 10 of his first 14 draft picks on defense when he took over and that is the most feared defense in the league.

We have built a pretty scary offense in a short amount of time. If we concentrate on the defense for the next 3 years we have a championship team imo

ohiobronco2
01-07-2009, 01:32 PM
Okay, some correction is requirred regarding Boeckman....

He has a live arm, however his inability to make quick decisions is what killed him... I agree 100%
As far as WR talent, this is also false. OSU does have WR talent. Hartline will most likely come out early and Robiskie is a stud. He will make a living as a 3rd WR in the NFL. We don't have anybody at WR with elite talent. Robiskie is great but lacks elite speed. Hartline would be foolish to come out early. OSU has a great one coming in Duron Carter however

Pryor is NOT a horrible passer. All you have to do is take a look at the data. He is statistically the 1 rated passer in the Big Ten as a true freshmen. Couple that with his freakish ability to run the ball and he's a nightmare to defend....not easy....Clearly he's a great athlete, his passing is not on the same level with his scrambling/running however. The Buckeyes won't win many games if Pryor has to win it through the air. I know that he was great statistically in the Big Ten, but all you need to do is look at his throws vs Texas. Buckeye WR's have had to bail him out all season, out jumping the opposition for ball Pryor just floated up there.

That said...if Wells is there at 12 or within trading distance...Denver would be making a huge mistake not getting him. I wouldn't oppose them getting Wells, but it really depends on what we do in FA. Our offense would become elite with Wells and another lineman

:)

nickademus
01-07-2009, 01:49 PM
I have been watching pac ten tape lately and seriously I can say that I hunger for Unger. I dont have a good feel for where he will go in this draft, I have seen him as high as the second and as low as the 5th but IMHO he is a stud and I like him better than Mack because he can play at a high level at pretty much any position on the line. I am not really a wells fan and I do think that we need a RB but I would rather trade our pick than take wells in the first. if we do make a trade and wells falls then sweet but I am not taking him @ 12. I have said before that I like Davis and Green (still flip-floping) but if we have two firsts and we can come away with Moreno and Spikes then I will be happy.

gyldenlove
01-07-2009, 03:26 PM
I am still not sold on RB in the 1st, there are a number of quality guys coming out this year and you can get a playmaker with at least the same credentials as Steve Slaton in the 2nd or maybe even 3rd round.

We have so many needs on defense and if we don't start doing something about it now we are not going to be able to fix it before Cutler is going to want to go to a contender. I think we will be better off getting a top defender in the 1st round and maybe even 2nd round and trusting to luck in the 3rd to grab a RB.

MagicHef
01-07-2009, 05:08 PM
What do you guys think of Rashad Jennings?

mattob14
01-07-2009, 05:45 PM
2008 1st round defenders:

Glenn Dorsey: 1 sack
Vernon Gholston: 0 sacks
Sedrick Ellis: 4 sacks
Derrick Harvey: 3.5 sacks
Keith Rivers: 37 tackles and 0 sacks
Jerod Mayo: 128 tackles
Leodis McKelvin: 2 Int's
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie: 4 int's
Aqib Talib: 4 int's
Mike Jenkins: 1 Int
Antoine Cason: 2 int's
Lawrence Jackson: 2 sacks
Kentwan Balmer: 0 sacks
Kenny Phillips: 1 Int

2008 1st round RB's:


Darren McFadden: 785 total yards and 4 td's
Jonathan Stewart: 836 yards and 10 td's
Felix Jones: 700 total yards and 4 td's in 6 games
Chris Johnson: 1500 total yards and 10 td's

McFadden and Jones were both injured and still produced big. All four running backs made their teams better.

There are a few defenders in the above list that produced, but not many.

You forgot to mention Mendenhall, who did nothing in Pittsburgh this year, or the RBs not selected in round 1 who produced:

Matt Forte: 1238 rushing yards, 477 receiving, 12 total TDs
Steve Slaton: 1282 rushing yards, 377 receiving, 10 total TDs
Tim Hightower: 636 total yards, 10 TDs
Kevin Smith: 976 rushing, 286 receiving, 8 TDs
Tashard Choice: 472 rushing, 185 receiving, 2 TDs, only really played 5 games

This group outpaced the 5 1st rounders. The fact is, RBs are more likely to come in and contribute immediately, regardless of where they're selected. I don't want to wait beyond, say, round 3, but I think a guy like James Davis could produce similar numbers to Wells or Moreno next year.

BroncoMan4ever
01-07-2009, 08:32 PM
Defenders take a couple of more years to make a big impact. Ozzie Newsome spent 10 of his first 14 draft picks on defense when he took over and that is the most feared defense in the league.

We have built a pretty scary offense in a short amount of time. If we concentrate on the defense for the next 3 years we have a championship team imo

we don't need a defense as good as the Ravens. we have an offense built to win right now if we could get good production from the running game. we just need a decent defense capable of holding teams to 20 points a game, forcing some turnovers, getting to the QB, and being able to force a few more 3 and outs a game.

nickademus
01-07-2009, 10:53 PM
What do you guys think of Rashad Jennings?

This is the kid from Liberty right? I like him. I think he will be a good NFL player and it is possible that on the right team he could be a great player. We will find out more about him at the combine.

BroncoMan4ever
01-07-2009, 11:01 PM
What do you guys think of Rashad Jennings?

after Shonn Greene he is the guy i want.

MVP-06
01-08-2009, 10:28 AM
we don't need a defense as good as the Ravens. we have an offense built to win right now if we could get good production from the running game. we just need a decent defense capable of holding teams to 20 points a game, forcing some turnovers, getting to the QB, and being able to force a few more 3 and outs a game.

So you want the total opposite of what he have right now. That it going to take some draft picks

BroncoMan4ever
01-08-2009, 12:17 PM
So you want the total opposite of what he have right now. That it going to take some draft picks

to make a defense decent doesn't require 10 picks and all our FA money. we could easily fix the Safety position, and get some help along the DL with FA, and need only to work on the LB position and depth in the draft.

if we go into FA smart this year, we would have 10 picks in the draft which we could use in anyway we wanted.

MVP-06
04-25-2009, 04:48 PM
well it happened, whats everyone thinking?

Personally I was a little shocked, however Mayock saying that he is the best defender in the draft in his opinion made me feel a little better.

Rd. 2= Laurinaitis is the pick imo

mhgaffney
05-12-2009, 03:02 AM
You called it.

I had Moreno at 18.

Traveler
05-12-2009, 06:54 AM
well it happened, whats everyone thinking?

Personally I was a little shocked, however Mayock saying that he is the best defender in the draft in his opinion made me feel a little better.

Rd. 2= Laurinaitis is the pick imo

Good call MVP!