predict returning starters on defense...

[tsiguy96]

or guys taht make a significant contribution that dont start.

i say: dre bly, dj williams, marcus thomas, dwayne, dumerville (sometimes)
edit: forgot champ...

[Rock Chalk]

Champ Bailey.

[tsiguy96]

ohhh yea forgot champ :D

[BlaK-Argentina]

So you don't think Champ is back tsi?

[BlaK-Argentina]

Oh ok. ;D

DJ, Robertson, Thomas, WW (in some capacity) Barrett, Champ and Bly.

[Rock Chalk]

Champ Bailey.

He's the only guy that is an absolute lock to return as a starter.

[Traveler]

Champ, DJ, Thomas. Everything else is up for grabs.

[tsiguy96]

Oh ok. ;D

DJ, Robertson, Thomas, WW (in some capacity) Barrett, Champ and Bly.

i dunno about barrett, this year he filled in nicely, but what about next year when we (should) have a legitimate DC?

[TonyR]

I heard Schlereth on ESPN radio this morning and he said something to the effect of it being possible that 8 of Denver's 11 defensive starters could/should be on the street next year. That's a pretty good indication of just how bad our defensive talent is, and also a major reason why Mike Shanahan is no longer employed by the organization.

[TheDave]

Champ Bailey.

Thank You.

Everyone not named Champ is competeing for a job... at best.

[sirhcyennek81]

Bailey, Williams, Thomas. Woodyard would be a good bet too.


:Broncos:

[bombquixote]

Bailey, Williams, Thomas. Woodyard would be a good bet too.


:Broncos:

That, and I'd add Barrett and Larsen.

With Bailey being the only certain starter.

[no-pseudo-fan]

or guys taht make a significant contribution that dont start.

i say: dre bly, dj williams, marcus thomas, dwayne, dumerville (sometimes)
edit: forgot champ...

Champ, DJ, Marcus Thomas, Doom, Woodyard, Barrett.

[no-pseudo-fan]

I heard Schlereth on ESPN radio this morning and he said something to the effect of it being possible that 8 of Denver's 11 defensive starters could/should be on the street next year. That's a pretty good indication of just how bad our defensive talent is, and also a major reason why Mike Shanahan is no longer employed by the organization.

8 is kind of high, as on the street goes. I can see 8 new starters, maybe. But some of the guys will still be on the team with lesser rolls.

Webster is likely gone.
Engelburger likely gone.
Robertson maybe gone.
Bly maybe gone.
Saftety's not named Barrett almost for sure gone.

Champ, DJ and Doom are locks for sure to be on the team, but every other starter will be on notice, and even DJ might have to move positions.

[wandlc]

Starters, Champ, Thomas, DJ. Rookies that played that should get a legitimate shot at competing for a starting spot, WW, Larsen, Barret, and Bell. Carlton Powell will hopefully get a chance to see what he is capable of.

[PRBronco]

Bly and Robertson better be ready to take major pay cuts if they want to stay. Both are halfway decent, but nowhere near worth what they're due to make.

[DarkHorse]

Champ Bailey

Wipe the rest and start clean.

[MVP-06]

Champ, Bly, Thomas, DJ, DOOM

[Dagmar]

Bly... no please!

[BizzyBone7]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but can someone please tell me what they saw in Barrett this year? I just didn't see anything special out of the kid. I understand hes young and all that, but i really didn't see much, if anything at all.

[broncofan7]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but can someone please tell me what they saw in Barrett this year? I just didn't see anything special out of the kid. I understand hes young and all that, but i really didn't see much, if anything at all.

Mostly his measurables--225-230lbs, 4.3 40 yrd dash--those are things that playing time and coaching cannot change. You don;t give up on a player with those kind of measurables after one season of subpar coaching on the defensive side of the ball.......

[kappys]

Bailey and Marcus Thomas are the only locks to start next year. DJ is above average and likely to start in some capacity, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a new DC move him around a bit maybe to get WW on the field. He
might not have much of a choice in the matter with a new boss coming in.

The thing about this defense is that it is in such flux that almost any new systtem is possible. We could go 3-4 if that's what a new HC wanted without any real loss since we only have 2 worthwhile players anways who could both play in that system. The rest of our talent should hardly be on any team let alone the Broncos so its not much of a loss to replace the whole lot with street FA's.

[bombay]

Bailey, Woodyard, Thomas, Barrett, Larson..

[ANIMAL24]

tom jackson

[BroncoMan4ever]

Oh ok. ;D

DJ, Robertson, Thomas, WW (in some capacity) Barrett, Champ and Bly.

if our new DC comes in and re-evaluates the defensive players, Woodyard is going to start ahead of DJ.

[dreasher54]

champ and d.j. are the only 2 i can see for sure start prob bly and dumerville(passing situations)

[montrose]

Looking at this year's starters (if all we're healthy today):

Ekuban - A free agent I doubt is resigned under a new DC.

Thomas - If they stay 4-3, he'll likely get a shot to compete for a starting job. If we move to the 3-4, I imagine he'll compete at DE but wouldn't be a likely starter.

Robertson - I doubt he's back, especially since Thomas plays the same position and is cheaper with more potential and a smaller injury history.

Dumervil - Hopefully our new coaching staff will be wise enough to return Doom to a 3rd down pass rushing role. If we move to the 3-4, I'd hope his traded but if not - I imagine he's a reserve OLB.

Williams - A lock to start at WLB if we stay in the 4-3 (sorry WW fans, it's actually not even close). If we move to the 3-4 I'd expect DJ to start at the ILB position.

Webster - Free agent who won't be back.

B.Bailey - If the Broncos don't like what they see in his rehab, they could discuss an injury settlement. If not, I'd expect him to start as SLB in the 4-3 or compete for a starting OLB position if we go 3-4.

C.Bailey - I would not call Champ a "lock" to return as we have no idea what our new coaching staff/possible GM would want to do with him. It's possible the new regime may want to move him to stockpile picks. If not, he's obviously starting.

Barrett - He'll compete for a roster spot as a reserve safety and special teams guy.

McCree - Free agent won't be resigned

Bly - With his cap number and age, I imagine the new regime will start over at the CB position opposite Champ.

And reserves who could be kept:

[socalorado]

Looking at this year's starters (if all we're healthy today):

Ekuban - A free agent I doubt is resigned under a new DC.

Thomas - If they stay 4-3, he'll likely get a shot to compete for a starting job. If we move to the 3-4, I imagine he'll compete at DE but wouldn't be a likely starter.

Robertson - I doubt he's back, especially since Thomas plays the same position and is cheaper with more potential and a smaller injury history.

Dumervil - Hopefully our new coaching staff will be wise enough to return Doom to a 3rd down pass rushing role. If we move to the 3-4, I'd hope his traded but if not - I imagine he's a reserve OLB.

Williams - A lock to start at WLB if we stay in the 4-3 (sorry WW fans, it's actually not even close). If we move to the 3-4 I'd expect DJ to start at the ILB position.

Webster - Free agent who won't be back.

B.Bailey - If the Broncos don't like what they see in his rehab, they could discuss an injury settlement. If not, I'd expect him to start as SLB in the 4-3 or compete for a starting OLB position if we go 3-4.

C.Bailey - I would not call Champ a "lock" to return as we have no idea what our new coaching staff/possible GM would want to do with him. It's possible the new regime may want to move him to stockpile picks. If not, he's obviously starting.

Barrett - He'll compete for a roster spot as a reserve safety and special teams guy.

McCree - Free agent won't be resigned

Bly - With his cap number and age, I imagine the new regime will start over at the CB position opposite Champ.

And reserves who could be kept:

I think Barrett will become DENs starting SS. He just needs a DC who isnt a complete moron, and an actual FS with talent to play with. (please see OJ Atogwe)

[cabronco]

Bailey, Thomas, Robertson, DJ, Woodyard, Barrett

[eddie mac]

WTF is all this 3-4 crap coming from considering every HC candidate we're looking at is 4-3.

Infact you can bet your ass if Morris gets the job we'll be Tampa 2 next year and he'll bring a Colts/Bucs positional coach in as our DC, the most likely candidate being our ex-pass rushing coach John Teerlink.

In turn Teerlink will attempt to get a combination of Moss/Crowder/Dumervil somewhere near the production levels of Mathis/Freeney and meanwhile we'll push hard in FA for Hagler to replace Bailey at SLB, Hayden to replace Bly and Phillips to come in as a S, whether we like it or not and that No12 pick will be used in the attempt to find the new Barrett Ruud.

In Morris' dream here's how our defense looks in 09

Moss or Crowder-Thomas-Haynesworth-Dumervil

Hagler-Spikes-DJ

Bailey-Phillips-Pegues-Hayden

[chickennob2]

A Tampa 2 would marginalize the effectiveness of our best player, Champ Bailey, and would render Dre Bly useless, as he was traded from Detroit because he made no sense in a Tampa 2.

[TallyBronco]

DJ Williams -- If Woodyard is riding the bench in 09, then we haven't improved our defensive IQ one bit. DJ is a below-average WLB starter, reliable but rarely blows up a play. He's not feared by offenses. Nobody schemes away from DJ Williams. We'd be better off freeing up some salary for a true MLB. His contract was another misjudgment by Shanahan.

Dre Bly -- There are the guys who shouldn't return at any cost. I lost a lot of hair watching Bly get screened out on running plays by a receiver. Where Bailey sheds blocks and makes plays, Bly acts like he's helping the linebackers and safeties by occupying the ever-feared blocking skills of wide receivers. He isn't worth half his price. Hell, any price. We need a fighter opposite Bailey.

Ebenezer -- Ekuban has always been a hard worker, but he's lost too many steps.

Engleberger -- talk about a man with more luck than a leprechan. Won't be in the NFL next year, maybe as a deactivated backup if his luck continues.

Webster -- If he returns, I might just lose the rest of my hair. Absolutely tired of this turf clown. Ten times more attitude than talent, and less gridiron intelligence than a goal post. Emblematic of the bad personel moves by Shanahan.

Robertson -- Rotation guy, not worth the money. Pay cut or hit the streets.

As for Moss and Crowder, if you're playing probabilities, these guys are gone. Very little chance that either one suddenly starts showing starter talent. Keep one of two as a cheap back-up and start-over at DE.

[bpc]

It's incredible to look at everything we need on this defense. Holes across the board at most positions.

I'm resigned to the fact that we'll have a 4-3 coach come in. Odds are Spagnuolo. So be it. If Crowder and Moss are ever going to do anything, it would probably be through him. Thomas should have a place and an attacking 4-3 defense should suit him better. Tough to say about Roberson, he might be kept though. He's a decent penetrator. I like Kenny Peterson as a rotational guy as well. He's tough and can play DE in a pinch. Dumervil should be reduced to a Trent Cole/Robert Mathis type role.

Ekuban/Engelberger have to be gone after this offseason. Too old, no upside.

IMO, Webster, Boss, Koutivides should all be gone from the outset. I'm willing to give Winborn another look. I like Woodyard, Williams is decent. We need help here.

The secondary should be basically liquified and it probably will be. Champ should be the only one remaing. Bly and anybody at safety not named Barrett needs to go. I'm still not huge on him. Paymah and Jack Williams will probably get looks by the next staff to see if they can do anything with them. Bell is gone.

It will be almost impossible to go with BPA in this draft because of how many issues we have.

Throw some money at Haynesworth and Atogwhe. See if they'll sign. If you have anything left over, offer a deal to Vilma from the Saints. Next year we can start DJ, Vilma, and Winborn with Woodyard getting a look at the Sam.

Draft Taylor Mays in round 1, pair him up with Atogwhe at the safeties. Champ starts on one side and maybe we'll get a chance to select a CB in round 3 or 4. Joe Burnett from UCF would be nice but CB is going to be extremely deep this year, I wouldn't mind if we went after a couple.

Maybe we could land a guy like Paul Kruger in round 2, maybe Tyson Jackson. Either could play the power end spot in a 4-3 IMO.

[Punisher]

Bly... no please!

I think if Bly plays with a good front line he'll go to the Pro Bowl...

[Traveler]

Next year is going to be very interesting. If we do hire a defensive minded coach, we'll finally know if our defensive woes were talent or coaching. I know, it's probably a combination of both.

Especially interested to see what happens with Moss, Dumervil, and Crowder.

[BroncoFiend]

Bly... no please!

The attitude against Bly is totally unfounded. Few corners can hold up when a team has NO pass rush. He did a really good job considering what he had to deal with this year.

[montrose]

I think Barrett will become DENs starting SS. He just needs a DC who isnt a complete moron, and an actual FS with talent to play with. (please see OJ Atogwe)

Josh has talent but he's very raw, I think he needs some time before competing for a starting NFL job.

WTF is all this 3-4 crap coming from considering every HC candidate we're looking at is 4-3.

McDaniels is an OC and NE has always ran a 3-4. Pat Kirwan was on Sirius yesterday saying that wherever he gets a HC job, Romeo Crennel will probably be his DC and Romeo runs a 3-4.

Also, Jason Garrett is an OC and Dallas runs a 3-4 as well. Again, no guarantee that means we'd run a 3-4 but it isn't out of the possibility.

DJ Williams -- If Woodyard is riding the bench in 09, then we haven't improved our defensive IQ one bit. DJ is a below-average WLB starter, reliable but rarely blows up a play. He's not feared by offenses. Nobody schemes away from DJ Williams. We'd be better off freeing up some salary for a true MLB. His contract was another misjudgment by Shanahan.

A below-average WLB? Have you ever played organized football? Do you understand the concepts of scraping, angles and influence steps? I'm willing to bet you're not aware with these because if you were - you'd recognize that DJ is a fantastic WLB. In fact, most NFL personnel guys rank DJ as the top all-round talent on our team (yes, more than Champ and Marshall). DJ overcomes a lot of the problems by our MLB and DL with his angles and incredible scraping ability. The only WLB I've ever scouted with strong influence steps is Derrick Brooks. You don't think team's scheme DJ Williams? Until he returned and was playing on one knee with one shoulder, team's ran almost exclusively to the strong-side away from DJ and yet he was still 2nd in the NFL in tackles when he was injured. His weak-side crash on Pierre Thomas in Week 3 that saved the game was one of the most outstanding explosive angles I've ever seen from a LB. Don't worry about DJ, now that we're getting a real DC who's going to use his abilities correctly - you'll see how lucky we are. As far as the MLB position goes, I'm thinking that's where we're going at #12. To get the record straight on WW, I've evaluated him and I like a lot of what he brings to the table. He's a sound tackler who has good speed but he takes some of the most god awful angles I've ever seen and his influence steps are so poor he can victimized badly off of PA. I love the kid on special teams and I think he's got a real future in the NFL but he's no where near ready to be a starting WLB, especially on this team.

Dre Bly -- There are the guys who shouldn't return at any cost. I lost a lot of hair watching Bly get screened out on running plays by a receiver. Where Bailey sheds blocks and makes plays, Bly acts like he's helping the linebackers and safeties by occupying the ever-feared blocking skills of wide receivers. He isn't worth half his price. Hell, any price. We need a fighter opposite Bailey.

[QUOTE=BroncoFiend;2231476]The attitude against Bly is totally unfounded. Few corners can hold up when a team has NO pass rush. He did a really good job considering what he had to deal with this year.

I'm officially on board that Broncos-fans are harder on CB's because of Bailey than QB's because of Elway. What do people want? Two Champ Baileys? Zero receptions given up at the CB position in the NFL's pass-happy era? Give me a break. Dre' Bly is the best #2 CB in football, I can't wait to hear people crying here next year after his replacement is picked on even more.

[elsid13]

It really depends on which guy gets the job. If it Spags then I think you see Larson have legitimate chance to play MLB. When Larson was in College I thought he remind me a lot Trotter and has the ability go down hill and fill the hole plus he is very good blitzer.

If it Tampa 2 I would expect DJ numbers to skyrocket as WLB because that is the play maker in the defense front 7.

[Dedhed]

LBs- If we're going to maximize the talent we have, DJ will be back at Sam and WW at Will. Curry or Maualuga would make a nice filling between those two.

DL- Thomas and Dumervil are the only DL that I'm sure will have a role. Thomas as a starter, and Doom at least as a specialist. Powell is an unknown, and I'm sure we'll go after a DL in FA. Moss and Crowder may be useful depending on the scheme and what new coaching can do.

CBs- I don't consider Champ all that reliable anymore given that he's missed about 40% of games the last 2 years, and has been less than 100% far more than that. Bly will not be a Bronco next year unless he takes a major pay cut. I think he's over $6M on the books next year. Throw that money at Nnamde, and get our CBOTF. Jack Williams, Josh Bell, and Paymah are Nickel options but I haven't seen starter quality from any of them.

S-Josh Barrett is the only safety I see that has roster potential, but I don't see him as a shoe-in starter at all. I think he can be effective in the right scheme, and would love to see his talent maximized.

Overall I think we have 5-6 starters on the roster and 2-3 potentials others. That said, however, I think these numbers could change considerably either way depending on how they see guys fitting into their system.

[TallyBronco]

A below-average WLB? Have you ever played organized football?

::) ::) ::) Seriously, man, don't pull the "I've played football" stuff. Bowlen is a real estate guy, I suppose he's also incapable of seeing talent (or lack thereof) on the field.

Do you understand the concepts of scraping, angles and influence steps?

Do you understand the concept of losing? I question DJ's leadership as much as his fit at WLB. The players around him don't play better when he's there.

In fact, most NFL personnel guys rank DJ as the top all-round talent on our team (yes, more than Champ and Marshall).

I'd be very surprised if that's true. Name the NFL "personnel guys" who rank DJ above Champ, Culter, and Marshall as the top talent on our team. Hit the dance floor, Nancy. Let's see your moves.

You don't think team's scheme DJ Williams? Until he returned and was playing on one knee with one shoulder, team's ran almost exclusively to the strong-side away from DJ and yet he was still 2nd in the NFL in tackles when he was injured.

First of all, teams run to the strong side more often. Second, we had Boss Bailey over there. Who wouldn't run the ball to the strong side when you see Boss Bailey limping around over there? Teams are not scheming away from DJ. He'll make tackles all day. But a game-changer he is not.

Don't worry about DJ, now that we're getting a real DC who's going to use his abilities correctly - you'll see how lucky we are.

I hope you're right. But I want to see forced fumbles, recoveries, interceptions, tackles for losses, big plays.

Dre' Bly is the best #2 CB in football, I can't wait to hear people crying here next year after his replacement is picked on even more.

Have you watched Bly in the run game? He's part of the mental problem on this defense. Not enough toughness. It's not all about your talent, it's also about your ability to push back, to refuse to break. That's not Bly. He's all talent when we're 10 points ahead. And he's not even close to the best #2 in football when it counts the most.

[TonyR]

...Dre' Bly is the best #2 CB in football...

That's a bit of a stretch. Just off the top of my head the Eagles and Chargers have better #2 guys and I'm sure there are many more.

[Punisher]

That's a bit of a stretch. Just off the top of my head the Eagles and Chargers have better #2 guys and I'm sure there are many more.

Yea I'll take Brown over Bly too but Bly had no front line to work with and still did an Ok Job at the number 2 Spot,I think Bly can be a Really great CB with a Good Front Line

[TonyR]

Yea I'll take Brown over Bly too...

Brown not only covers well but he also hits like a safety. Check out this hit on Reggie Bush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAGU1Wc1muQ

[tsiguy96]

That's a bit of a stretch. Just off the top of my head the Eagles and Chargers have better #2 guys and I'm sure there are many more.

the chargers #1 isnt better then bly. what has cromartie done this year?

[TonyR]

the chargers #1 isnt better then bly. what has cromartie done this year?

I'd take Cro and Jammer both over Bly without blinking. No brainer.

[Inkana7]

I'd take Jammer, not Cromartie. Bly's good.

[montrose]

::) ::) ::) Seriously, man, don't pull the "I've played football" stuff. Bowlen is a real estate guy, I suppose he's also incapable of seeing talent (or lack thereof) on the field.

Not I only did I play football, I've coached it at the NCAA level and hope to land in an NFL front office soon. Spotting talent is much different than spotting complete players. Woodyard has a lot of talent, he's just very very raw.

Do you understand the concept of losing? I question DJ's leadership as much as his fit at WLB. The players around him don't play better when he's there.

I understand losing all too well. I've never called DJ a great leader, he's not. He's just a very sound football player. The players around him suck and were complimented by a terrible scheme. The closest thing this team has to a true leader is Daniel Graham.

I'd be very surprised if that's true. Name the NFL "personnel guys" who rank DJ above Champ, Culter, and Marshall as the top talent on our team. Hit the dance floor, Nancy. Let's see your moves.

Pat Kirwan and Gil Brandt - per their show on Sirius NFL Radio, Charlie Casserly - Per NFL Today on CBS, Ozzie Newsome per Ravens Zone (the Ravens local pregame show), Mike Lombardi per 104.3 The Fan and Scott Pioli per 1510 FM The Zone in Boston. While I personally disagree, as I think Clady is the best all-round player on the team, I can't discount the opinions of those experts.

First of all, teams run to the strong side more often. Second, we had Boss Bailey over there. Who wouldn't run the ball to the strong side when you see Boss Bailey limping around over there? Teams are not scheming away from DJ. He'll make tackles all day. But a game-changer he is not.

Actually, teams ran 6% more to the weak side than the strong side this year according to Jim Miller on Sirius NFL Radio. Teams absolutely scheme away from DJ. In my scouting of every game this season, our opposition consistently spoke of identifying where 55 was at all times. In fact, if you rewatch the games as I have, you'll notice on a majority of the plays - opposing QB's or Centers are identifying 55 verbally or via gestures. I agree that DJ is not a game changer, but he's a very good football player who is miles ahead of any LB we have (yes including the great Wesley Woodyard).

I hope you're right. But I want to see forced fumbles, recoveries, interceptions, tackles for losses, big plays.

Those things will come as DJ (and the other LBs) aren't fighting through the wash as much and will also be better coached to go for those plays. If you watched the Bal/Mia game today, you'll notice most of these types of plays come when a player has space to bring an impact. None of our defenders had the chance to do this with Dumervil and company being pushed into their laps.

Have you watched Bly in the run game? He's part of the mental problem on this defense. Not enough toughness. It's not all about your talent, it's also about your ability to push back, to refuse to break. That's not Bly. He's all talent when we're 10 points ahead. And he's not even close to the best #2 in football when it counts the most.

Bly's average by NFL standards as a tackling CB. Sad but true. We've all been spoiled by Champ. Watch Samari Rolle and Phillip Buchanon of the Ravens (the #1 defense in the league). Dre looks like Brian Urlacher compared to those guys. As far as when it counts the most, Nnamdi Asmougha aint making plays 15 yards off the ball on 3rd and 3, let alone Dre' Bly. It's a point not worth arguing as Bly will be gone because of cap problems and we'll have a new #2 CB in here next year who Broncos fans will trash just as they did Bly, D-Will, Foxy, Alexander, Walls, Herndon and every other CB that's played across from Champ.

That's a bit of a stretch. Just off the top of my head the Eagles and Chargers have better #2 guys and I'm sure there are many more.

Lito Shepherd and Sheldon Brown sucked big time for the Eagles this year. (I saw every Eagles and Ravens game this year in addition to watching each Broncos game twice). As for the Chargers, Quentin Jammer doesn't get beat as he'd just rather PI a guy than give up a catch. He was the most penalized CB in football. All of these CB's played in system's that allowed them to play man coverage and challenge WR's. Meanwhile Bly was stuck in off zone every game watching teams dink and dunk in front of him as Slowik refused to adjust. The only game Bly was allowed to play his game was Cleveland when he shut down Edwards (not to mention stripped Winslow in the game's key play).

Again, Champ has redefined the position here in town as much as Elway did QB. Fans are expecting both of their CB's to shut down their man in the most pass-happy era in NFL history, not to mention playing with no pass rush and 12-15 yards off the ball in zone. Even if our new coach improves the defense next year, I fully expect the Mane to be slamming whoever our #2 CB is.

[WolfpackGuy]

I don't really get caught up in the starting part, but as far as playing time:
Thomas
Woodyard
Williams
Bailey (if not traded)
Bly

Situational guys:
Dumervil (passing downs)
Barrett (running downs or big nickel/dime)

Not sure about role because they haven't played much:
Moss
Larsen