View Full Version : We ended up 16th in points scored, 30th in points given up....
PaintballCLE
01-02-2009, 07:23 AM
In one way i think that warrants a coaching change........on the other hand given those numbers he did a hell of a job to even get us to 8-8 and have us in position to win the division.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u144/pntballkrm/afc.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u144/pntballkrm/nfc.jpg
spdirty
01-02-2009, 07:41 AM
and dead last in turnovers forced. 1 away from tieing an nfl record I think.
EmpireOrange
01-02-2009, 07:42 AM
But see, Shanahan has always done a pretty good job. I think Bowlen was sincere when he said that Shanny did a good job. However every years since the super bowls there has one excuse after another why Denver didn't make it. The constant theme however has been starting fast and ending slow. Broncos have regressed in the last few years and I believe Bowlen when he said that the decision to let Shanny go was more of an instinct than anything else. I have had the same feeling for a couple years now. Shanny was stuck in a rut and we were never going to get over the top again with him.
Meck77
01-02-2009, 07:45 AM
Our 370 points was not good. It was average in the league.
Yards don't necessarily translate into wins. See last several years.
Bottom line is good isn't worth jack at the end of the day. Average gets people fired in this league all the time.
Rock Chalk
01-02-2009, 07:50 AM
Im amazed so many people want to keep Bates on the fact that the team really wasn't as good as advertised offensively. So many points left on the field because of poor playcalling by Bates.
Mile High 81
01-02-2009, 07:59 AM
Im amazed so many people want to keep Bates on the fact that the team really wasn't as good as advertised offensively. So many points left on the field because of poor playcalling by Bates.
I doubt that. With Pitmann/Hillis our Redzone Offense was really good.
When you canīt run in the Redzone you are in trouble.
So keep Bates.
EmpireOrange
01-02-2009, 08:03 AM
Im amazed so many people want to keep Bates on the fact that the team really wasn't as good as advertised offensively. So many points left on the field because of poor playcalling by Bates.
Amen brother. I think however that the Bates debate derives from keeping Culter happy more than anything else.
But see, Shanahan has always done a pretty good job. I think Bowlen was sincere when he said that Shanny did a good job. However every years since the super bowls there has one excuse after another why Denver didn't make it. The constant theme however has been starting fast and ending slow. Broncos have regressed in the last few years and I believe Bowlen when he said that the decision to let Shanny go was more of an instinct than anything else. I have had the same feeling for a couple years now. Shanny was stuck in a rut and we were never going to get over the top again with him.
I think this is an accurate assessment of the situation.
sirhcyennek81
01-02-2009, 08:08 AM
Im amazed so many people want to keep Bates on the fact that the team really wasn't as good as advertised offensively. So many points left on the field because of poor playcalling by Bates.
So many times they ended up with 3 rather than 7 because they couldnt get it in inside the 20...having healthy running backs reverses this.
:Broncos:
ScottXray
01-02-2009, 08:14 AM
Only Detroit and St Louis gave up more points than us. Dead last in the AFC, even behind KC.
At the very least, the entire Defensive staff needed to go. Bowlen made the right choice to let Shanahan move on, and let the team move on too.
Without the baggage that keeping shanny would mean we have a better shot to change the teams direction and get a fresh outlook on things.
I'm sure Shanahan will go someplace else and do great. During the press conference I got the feeling that he actually was feeling upbeat and re-invigorated. It gives HIM a chance to reinvent himself too, something that was needed.
I will always be thankful for the SB wins and the respectability he brought to the Broncos, but a new ERA is now here. No player or coach from those teams now remains, and the ghosts that they entail are no longer relevant.
Time to move on.
Im amazed so many people want to keep Bates on the fact that the team really wasn't as good as advertised offensively. So many points left on the field because of poor playcalling by Bates.
Correct he was not perfect in play calling but that happens when you got a guy that was selling cell phones three weeks ago as your starting RB and he was your seventh guy in there but that's not really the issue here, the reason IMO to keep Bates is because he knows the system better than anytime not named Shanahan and he will maintain stability to a young and talented offense which it what they need most right now.
Spider
01-02-2009, 08:20 AM
i dont think this is a coaching problem as much as it a a lack of power running in the redzone problem ........
i dont think this is a coaching problem as much as it a a lack of power running in the redzone problem ........
That's what I just said only in more words and in a more confused manner. Good Morning
Spider
01-02-2009, 08:43 AM
That's what I just said only in more words and in a more confused manner. Good Morning;D well I wouldnt know I got you on ignore
enjolras
01-02-2009, 09:08 AM
The defense also affects the offense. I'm not sure what overall time of possession was, but I imagine the Broncos are certainly in the lower 3rd of the league.
The defense would give up 10 minute drives with regularity which is poison for the offense. They sit on the sidelines getting tight and (more importantly) losing any sense of timing.
That is why a succesful offense is the best defense against the Colts. When Manning gets in trouble it is when opponents are able to methodically pound the ball against his defense. It's the recipe for beating the Colts, and the same applies to the Broncos.
Look at how the offense did in complete shoot-out games (like the first Chargers game). Instead of long drives, the Chargers scored points on a series of huge plays which drove up the score, but didn't run a lot of time off of the clock. In this case the offense stayed in rhythm and moved down the field VERY effectively.
Couple this with the RB situation as noted before and it's easy to imagine why the offense ended up fairly average in terms of points. Fix the defense, and this offense is going to be fine (if we can keep a RB healthy).
Rock Chalk
01-02-2009, 09:22 AM
Correct he was not perfect in play calling but that happens when you got a guy that was selling cell phones three weeks ago as your starting RB and he was your seventh guy in there but that's not really the issue here, the reason IMO to keep Bates is because he knows the system better than anytime not named Shanahan and he will maintain stability to a young and talented offense which it what they need most right now.
So explain all the games prior to that.
Other than the first two games of the season, the offense really wasnt all that explosive after the first quarter.
It moved the ball well enough, but the playcalling was downright atrocious more often than anyone here cares to admit.
Bronx33
01-02-2009, 09:24 AM
Just a semi competent defense would have made a huuuuuuuge difference but i will add that the special teams didn't do the defense any favors in the field position department.
Spider
01-02-2009, 09:29 AM
So explain all the games prior to that.
Other than the first two games of the season, the offense really wasnt all that explosive after the first quarter.
It moved the ball well enough, but the playcalling was downright atrocious more often than anyone here cares to admit.
Not so sure , when Hillis was the starter we was 4-2 or 4-1 ( i cant remember if Hillis started vs Miami or not ) we didnt light the scoreboard up , but we had power running .. everyone looked like Geniuses
Dedhed
01-02-2009, 09:31 AM
It puts the offense's performance in perspective when you consider the Chargers gave up over 100 fewer points, and we finished with the same record.
Give this offense that kind of support, and we're looking at 12-14 wins.
ScottXray
01-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Not so sure , when Hillis was the starter we was 4-2 or 4-1 ( i cant remember if Hillis started vs Miami or not ) we didnt light the scoreboard up , but we had power running .. everyone looked like Geniuses
Hillis played against Miami...I think he had like 100 plus yards receiving. But they didn't RUN him at all I think.
Sort of points out that the coaches didn't seem to know what to do with the talent that they had at times, on both sides of the ball. (like when they reinstalled Webster and DJ after the rookies got better results).
One thing that I will be glad to see go is Shannys doghouse, and his penchant for playing his favorites and players who Practice better than play. Against OUR defense what good was practice? It led to high expectations and poor game results, mostly. Too bad he learned the value of hitting in practice so late.
Spider
01-02-2009, 09:42 AM
Hillis played against Miami...I think he had like 100 plus yards receiving. But they didn't RUN him at all I think.
Sort of points out that the coaches didn't seem to know what to do with the talent that they had at times, on both sides of the ball. (like when they reinstalled Webster and DJ after the rookies got better results). could be ......but something tells me Hillis didnt know what Hillis could do , as for talent , practice is different then a real game . but who knows for sure
One thing that I will be glad to see go is Shannys doghouse, and his penchant for playing his favorites and players who Practice better than play. Against OUR defense what good was practice? It led to high expectations and poor game results, mostly. Too bad he learned the value of hitting in practice so late.
pretty much ;D
ANIMAL24
01-02-2009, 10:56 AM
So explain all the games prior to that.
Other than the first two games of the season, the offense really wasnt all that explosive after the first quarter.
It moved the ball well enough, but the playcalling was downright atrocious more often than anyone here cares to admit.
the man has a point...:thumbsup:
Im amazed so many people want to keep Bates on the fact that the team really wasn't as good as advertised offensively. So many points left on the field because of poor playcalling by Bates.
I don't think Bates was amazing last year by any stretch, but our offense definitely wasn't bad despite serious RB health issues and Bates' own inexperience at play calling.
If we sign a defensive coach I'd like to see Dennison and Bates retained because I think they're on the way to something good. Not there yet, the Broncos offense gets grossly overrated on this board, but the potential for it to come together given a healthy running back, more familiarity within the roster, and more experience for Bates seems pretty high.
If we get an offensively minded coach though? Go ahead and feel free to clean house. I just think its asking a lot of a new defensively oriented HC to come in here and fix the mess on the other side of the ball while still finding staffers to implement an offensive scheme that our talent will be comfortable in and will utilize them well by opening day next year.
Basically, we got Bates and Dennison on the books already, we might as well get some value out of them. If we go for a defensively oriented HC to fix that area of weakness then lets focus on that for now and see if Bates/Dennison had a legit thing going this season to spring board off of. If the offense doesn't put up more points or regresses in any way then we can address that issue with a bit more continuity and less wasted money on the part of Mr. Bowlen.
Dedhed
01-02-2009, 12:18 PM
Sign Spags, keep Bates and Turner. Can Dennison.
TonyR
01-02-2009, 12:22 PM
I doubt that. With Pitmann/Hillis our Redzone Offense was really good.
This argument is not without merit, but we did have a healthy Hillis against the Raiders at home on Nov 23 and we lost 31-10. Our offense was terrible right along with our defense. Regardless of health this offense, starting with the QB, has to get better and more consistent. Has to.
24champ
01-02-2009, 12:28 PM
Im amazed so many people want to keep Bates on the fact that the team really wasn't as good as advertised offensively. So many points left on the field because of poor playcalling by Bates.
I agree 100 percent. Bates should not be excluded from the chopping block. Some new blood on offense should be brought in...hello McDaniels.
snowspot66
01-02-2009, 06:01 PM
Yeah we left points on the field but we missed out on a lot of points elsewhere as well. How many turnovers did we get this year? How many points off turnovers did we get? Not many. In fact it's probably the lowest total we've had in decades.
An average defense would have gotten us probably another twenty possessions or so. Reasonably you have to figure we missed out on 70 points or so with the potential for much much more.