Should Bates be back?

[bloodsunday]

The most uncertainty around our current coaches seems to surround Jeremy Bates. I want to know if Mane fans think he should be back next year.

Use whatever criteria you see fit for evaluating this, but please explain.

(Just for the record I think we should be more concerned about Bobby Turner!)

[skpac1001]

I am ok with him staying since he has such a good relationship with Jay as long as the new HC puts some of his more annoying playcalling on a leash. However I don't really care if another aggressive OC takes his place. I just don't want a super conservative OC, seems like a waste with the talent we have.

[bloodsunday]

I am undecided.

The reasons I think he should go:
1) I think the level of QB coaching has dropped off since Kubes left. I view the development of Cutler over the next season or two as the most critical challenge for the new coach.

2) I don't think we should stick a new HC, especially if he's offensively-oriented, with our current staff.

3) I am going to disagree with Shanahan about the state of our offense. He stated as his presser that its "near championship caliber" right now. I think Shanahan puts too much value in one stat -- yardage. We are high in the mistake category and poor in the redzone category. Add those up and I'd say we are an inconsistent offense, which is to say we are not championship caliber.

Reasons why I think he maybe should stay:
1) To keep Cutler from freaking out.
2) To keep a pretty good offense intact.

The more I look at my own editorial, I am starting to like the idea of Josh McDaniels teaching Cutler.

[lex]

I dont want the offense to be changed. If they bring in someone new, I want it to be someone who runs the same offense and someone who will use the ZBS.

[lex]

I am undecided.

The reasons I think he should go:
1) I think the level of QB coaching has dropped off since Kubes left. I view the development of Cutler over the next season or two as the most critical challenge for the new coach.

2) I don't think we should stick a new HC, especially if he's offensively-oriented, with our current staff.

3) I am going to disagree with Shanahan about the state of our offense. He stated as his presser that its "near championship caliber" right now. I think Shanahan puts too much value in one stat -- yardage. We are high in the mistake category and poor in the redzone category. Add those up and I'd say we are an inconsistent offense, which is to say we are not championship caliber.

Reasons why I think he maybe should stay:
1) To keep Cutler from freaking out.
2) To keep a pretty good offense intact.

The more I look at my own editorial, I am starting to like the idea of Josh McDaniels teaching Cutler.

Plus, its not exactly balanced. Its a little too pass happy.

[Steve Sewell]

I want someone who will curb some of the crushing mistakes that Cutler tends to make in crucial situations, while at the same time getting the most out of his talents. I could care less what their "relationship" is because winning cures all ills. I want someone who will emphasize a power running game that will wear opposing teams down, and take pressure off of Cutler to win games on his own. If that describes Bates then yes, let's retain him.

[montrose]

I want as many offensive coaches to be kept as possible. We all know what Bobby T can do with RB's, Fisch has done a good job developing B-Marsh and Royal, McPhearson's doing a good job with Scheffler and Jackson, and Dennison had the OL playing great last season.

Our offensive personnel fits those coaches well and I'd feel confident in Bates running the show while our new HC fixes the defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

It's a mistake to tell the new head coach who he needs on his staff.

[skpac1001]

I dont want the offense to be changed. If they bring in someone new, I want it to be someone who runs the same offense and someone who will use the ZBS.

Ahhh, I forgot about the ZBS. Ok, now if he is replaced I want it to be with someone who keeps the rb and ol coach, keeps ZBS and is aggressive, and that is probably a tough sell for a high level OC who is used to other schemes.

[Steve Sewell]

It's a mistake to tell the new head coach who he needs on his staff.

Yeah, if that's the case, we're certainly not getting a good head man for the football team. Have to let hem put together their staff.

[baja]

yes, for continuity. Keep as many O coaches as possible.

[elsid13]

Yes I do. I believe with healthy running game this offense would taken the crap defense to the playoffs. And I think one of the reason Bowlen was comfortable letting Shanahan go was he knew that he had the offense staff in place to be successful.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Easy call....keep Bates.

[BigPlayShay]

It's a mistake to tell the new head coach who he needs on his staff.

Didn't really affect Tomlin who is a Defensive 4-3 Coach that kept LeBeau and his 3-4 scheme.

[lex]

I wouldnt have a problem with Spags choosing an OC, provided its approved so that it suits whats already in place.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Cutler and Bates are building a Elway and Shanahan type of relationship. i say we keep him, no matter who we get as our HC.

[Steve Sewell]

Didn't really affect Tomlin who is a Defensive 4-3 Coach that kept LeBeau and his 3-4 scheme.

Comparing a proven coordinator like LeBeau (probably one of the best in NFL history) to a guy like Bates? There is no comparison...my goodness.

[Steve Sewell]

I'll reiterate...if we're hiring a coach who is going to accept marching orders in regard to what coaches he MUST keep, as some of you are suggesting...then that coach is weaksauce, period.

[bloodsunday]

Wow the Yeses are running away with it.

[BigPlayShay]

Comparing a proven coordinator like LeBeau (probably one of the best in NFL history) to a guy like Bates? There is no comparison...my goodness.

Uh wouldn't it make for a better environment for the Head Coach to have a more inexperienced guy stay on board than an experienced Coordinator? Wouldn't having an experienced guy be harder to manage and diminish the role of the head coach?

[yerner]

Who cares. Anybody with half a brain could have our offense put up points. Bates is just another guy. If the new coach doesn't know him, he probably won't really want to be forced to keep him. That type of structure is from the Daniel Snyder playbook.

[Bronx33]

Iam guess his fate/bates will be decided by who pat hires as head coach that is if pat really want's that coach.

[TonyR]

I'll reiterate...if we're hiring a coach who is going to accept marching orders in regard to what coaches he MUST keep, as some of you are suggesting...then that coach is weaksauce, period.

I'm with you on this 100%. You have to let whoever you hire choose who he wants to go to battle with.

[lex]

I'm with you on this 100%. You have to let whoever you hire choose who he wants to go to battle with.


Not really...not when you already have a lot invested in an offensive line, a QB, etc. It makes sense to want to keep that in tact. Pittsburgh did it. I think Spagnuolo should be able to intervene on Bates' playcalling however. Bates shouldnt have the green light to go all pass happy. And Bates also shouldnt be working independently of Spags. There should be some approval by Spags on the game plan and such although, maybe not the specific plays.

[orinjkrush]

depends. cutler is pretty immature. is bates? will Spag/Cowher/whomever?

[MechanicalBull]

If Spags is hired he should let Bates run the offense but have it go through Spags first and not allow 60 passes every game.

Spagnuolo would want his defense to get some rest so he isn't going to want many 3 and outs. He will want someone pounding the ball up the middle and eating up clock.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Didn't really affect Tomlin who is a Defensive 4-3 Coach that kept LeBeau and his 3-4 scheme.
Tomlin is smart and Lebeau might be the best DC in the game. I imagine he preferred to keep him, but don't you think the HC deserves to make that decision?

[Steve Sewell]

Not really...not when you already have a lot invested in an offensive line, a QB, etc. It makes sense to want to keep that in tact. Pittsburgh did it. I think Spagnuolo should be able to intervene on Bates' playcalling however. Bates shouldnt have the green light to go all pass happy. And Bates also shouldnt be working independently of Spags. There should be some approval by Spags on the game plan and such although, maybe not the specific plays.

What TonyR and I am saying is that we don't want a coach who's going to lay down and be forced to accept a staff not of his choosing. That would mean that the hire is a pretty weak personality or has a very low stature in the coaching world.

[SureShot]

I want someone who will curb some of the crushing mistakes that Cutler tends to make in crucial situations, while at the same time getting the most out of his talents. I could care less what their "relationship" is because winning cures all ills. I want someone who will emphasize a power running game that will wear opposing teams down, and take pressure off of Cutler to win games on his own. If that describes Bates then yes, let's retain him.

The D has been one of the worst in the league since he started his first game. Give him a defense that hold a lead less than 20 points and you will see Cutler take less chances in the redzone and settle for FGs.

As for Bates I'm undecided.

[Wes Mantooth]

I am not sold. Just find a way to keep Bobby Turner and probably Dennison. Everyone else can go.

[Steve Sewell]

Uh wouldn't it make for a better environment for the Head Coach to have a more inexperienced guy stay on board than an experienced Coordinator? Wouldn't having an experienced guy be harder to manage and diminish the role of the head coach?

What I'm saying is that if we bring in a proven head coach, or a hot commodity head coach with a lot of options...and Bowlen says to that coach "Hey coach, you're hired but you have to keep our 32 yr old, largely unproven QB coach and make him your OC"...that coach would in all likely tell Bowlen to go **** himself.

On the other hand, if you were to tell the new coach "hey you're hired but you have to keep one of the best defensive assistants in NFL history", barring extreme personality differences, he would come off as being pretty idiotic for refusing.

[Steve Sewell]

The D has been one of the worst in the league since he started his first game. Give him a defense that hold a lead less than 20 points and you will see Cutler take less chances in the redzone and settle for FGs.

As for Bates I'm undecided.

What I mean is I could care less whether Bates and Cutler are buddies or not, and that shouldn't be a reason for keeping him around.

I just think back to what won us Super Bowls. What we had was a balanced offensive attack designed to wear down defenses, a QB that could put the team on his shoulders and pull a few games out on his own, and a solid (yet unspectacular) defense that held it's ground.

From that respect I suppose I agree with you. I just remember Alex Gibbs yelling "we've got 'em on skates" during SB 32 in referring to GB's massive DLine. Part of the reason we won a lot of games is because we truly wore down other teams to the point where they couldn't hang anymore at the end of games. The defense was OK, nothing spectacular, but had a solid veteran core that played hard. They were able to take a lot of risks because in a lot of cases we had big leads. And we had Elway, who was still good enough and still had that magic where you thought you always had a chance. I think we have that with Cutler, but the other two I think we're still lacking.

[chaz]

The bottom line is that if we do not keep our offensive system intact, our offense will be as far from super bowl caliber as the defense is. Our offense is a well-oiled ZBS machine, with a lot of potential that would be stunted by a shift in philosophy.

[Play2win]

The bottom line is that if we do not keep our offensive system intact, our offense will be as far from super bowl caliber as the defense is. Our offense is a well-oiled ZBS machine, with a lot of potential that would be stunted by a shift in philosophy.

Oh, BS... when we had Hillis in there how much of a ZBS were we actually.

With our O-line, it seems one of their strengths is Pass Protection. We HIGH Talent in WR's, QB, LT, and you could argue TE.

You could put in any Running System to augment the passing attack. ZBS probably would be one of the more effective, though not as effective as it once was. There are a lot of offenses that use it now in the NFL. It might be time to switch philosophies, predicated on our new Head Coach, new/same OC, and our QB.

Offensively, we have a number of VERY Valuable assets that could be used successfully in a number of different ways. It all depends on which way Mr. Bowlen decides to go.

[BroncoMan4ever]

If Spags is hired he should let Bates run the offense but have it go through Spags first and not allow 60 passes every game.

Spagnuolo would want his defense to get some rest so he isn't going to want many 3 and outs. He will want someone pounding the ball up the middle and eating up clock.

everyone knows that this offense needs a good RB. and with a defensive coach we will be getting a RB in the draft or FA, because he will want to control the clock and get Jay into a position to only need to throw the ball 25-30 times a game instead of 40 times a game. Honestly, i think Jay will be happy for this change as it will mean less responsibility on him, and it also cuts down on the number of mistakes he makes, as well as eliminates him having to throw bad passes.

also if it is Spags i would be betting on Ward coming to Denver.

[BroncoMan4ever]

The bottom line is that if we do not keep our offensive system intact, our offense will be as far from super bowl caliber as the defense is. Our offense is a well-oiled ZBS machine, with a lot of potential that would be stunted by a shift in philosophy.

not necessarily. we aren't really reliant on the ZBS anymore. also we are beginning to get bigger on the OL meaning we won't run that much anymore. it is going to become a straight ahead rushing game, similar to how the Giants run.

[Broncojef]

I'm indifferent to Bates. Spagnuolo or whoever we hire should be given the ability to analyze our team and keep who he wants and who he doesn't. Bates wasn't successful to the point we don't want to break anything up. The offense was sporadic usually good the first series then did nothing our last few quarters.

[Broncojef]

What TonyR and I am saying is that we don't want a coach who's going to lay down and be forced to accept a staff not of his choosing. That would mean that the hire is a pretty weak personality or has a very low stature in the coaching world.

Couldn't agree more.

[Play2win]

not necessarily. we aren't really reliant on the ZBS anymore. also we are beginning to get bigger on the OL meaning we won't run that much anymore. it is going to become a straight ahead rushing game, similar to how the Giants run.

Frankly, I am all game for that. It is time...

[AbileneBroncoFan]

This is an interesting question. I'm undecided, and will be as such until we name a HC. If it's McDaniels, I don't think it matters, as he's coached one of the greatest of all time to a career year and a guy who hasn't started since high school to a pro bowl calibur season. If it's a defensive guy who is planning on keeping status quo on offense then by all means keep Bates. But I believe Turner and Dennison are more critical than Bates. Every running back we touch turns to gold, and Bobby T has a huge role in that. If you told me before the year that an o-line starting from left to right a rookie, vet, vet, 3rd year, and 2nd year (first year starter though) could make a legit case for best in the NFL I would call you an idiot. But it happened. The most impressive thing about our o going forward is not the yards, tds, etc, but the fact that practically every key player is in his 3rd year or less, and we threw the ball about 600 times--with only 11 sacks. Everyone and their dog knew to expect empty set shotgun formations more often than not, yet no one could get consistent pressure on Jay. This offense has only scratched the surface of where it's going. It looks as if Bates is staying, but I would much rather have an outstanding o-line for 10 years than a good play caller. Play callers and quarterbacks look a lot dumber when an o-line sucks. Look at Jason Garrett this year (someone I don't want to hire). Plus do we honestly think that if Bates leaves Jay Cutler is going to look like Brian Griese? The only problem Jay has is getting frustrated with huge deficits and knowing he has to lead TD drives every freaking drive of the game for us to have a chance. Give him a defense and a consistent running game and I assure you his ints will be cut in half, while his completion percentage and td's increase.

I'm fine without Bates as long as we don't bring in an idiot who refuses to throw past the first down marker on 3rd downs. That drives me up the wall, and has become an epidemic in the hs, college, and pro games recently.

[Rock Chalk]

I want as many offensive coaches to be kept as possible. We all know what Bobby T can do with RB's, Fisch has done a good job developing B-Marsh and Royal, McPhearson's doing a good job with Scheffler and Jackson, and Dennison had the OL playing great last season.

Our offensive personnel fits those coaches well and I'd feel confident in Bates running the show while our new HC fixes the defense.

I am indifferent.

I dont particularly like what Bates did to our offense myself and I know I am in the minority here on that which is fine. Like you, the offensive personnel fits these coaches but thats with or without Bates. I think any decent OC can take what the rest of the coaches have done and do a good job, so for me Bates stays or goes doesnt really matter, what matters for me is the REST of the offensive staff.

Bates is a far cry from Kubiak who was the best OC this team has ever had IMO.

[Dedhed]

Plus, its not exactly balanced. Its a little too pass happy.

I am apt to think that had a little to do with placing 7 RBs on IR, you?

[Rock Chalk]

I am apt to think that had a little to do with placing 7 RBs on IR, you?

No, because even before the RB injuries started we passed nearly 2 to 1.

[Traveler]

I read several threads where, on defense, folks would question why our Coyer, Rhodes, Bates, and even Slowik couldn't select their own staff.

Why is the any different? We need new ideas top to bottom. WHile I would prefer we keep the ZBS, I wouldn't have a problem at all if the new staff stressed more power than finesse. Best case scenario would be to somehow blend both.

[no-pseudo-fan]

Bates is one of the up and coming Offensive Coaches in this league. Not his fault what happened with the RB's, not his fault that our D couldn't stop anyone. When we could run, we were unstoppable. When we couldn't, we had issues.

[colonelbeef]

depends who they bring in.

[lex]

I am apt to think that had a little to do with placing 7 RBs on IR, you?

Rock Chalk is right. Even before the injuries we were overreliant on the pass. But to you point, 3 of our RBs have been training room warriors over the last 3 years. You can chalk that up to bad luck but I warn you not to look at how many games Hall/Young/Torain have missed the past 3 years due to injury.

[Dendave]

I voted no...clean House...start over...let new GM/Coach decide his own staff

[bronco_diesel]

whoever is hired should have the ability to pick his staff.

i hope though, that this coach will heavily consider retaining dennison, turner and bates.

[rastaman]

Cutler and Bates are building a Elway and Shanahan type of relationship. i say we keep him, no matter who we get as our HC.

Wouldn't that be counter productive with hiring a new HC! Most HC want to bring their own staff with them and will want to implement their own offense.

So if everyone wants to keep the ZBS, the delicate relationship btwn Bates and Cutler, as well as an Offensive scheme and system Cutler is familar with and most comfortable.......Its a no brainer, Bowlen should name Bates as the HC of the Denver Broncos.

Meanwhile, Bowlen can then concentrate on the hiring of one the hotest DC avail. in the NFL; as well as hiring the best GM available.

If Bowlen does this, he maybe able to ensure the 2009 season doesn't implode into more uncertainity.

[rastaman]

Bates is one of the up and coming Offensive Coaches in this league. Not his fault what happened with the RB's, not his fault that our D couldn't stop anyone. When we could run, we were unstoppable. When we couldn't, we had issues.

Good points.

[ANIMAL24]

I dont like wut i seen from bates, i think this offense couldve been alot better... some of his calls were just retarded at the time they were called. and dont say it was cause we didnt have a RB , they can put any one back there and get a 100 yds. and we had clinton portis replacement carrying the rock a former 2 round draft pick....

[rastaman]

I dont like wut i seen from bates, i think this offense couldve been alot better... some of his calls were just retarded at the time they were called. and dont say it was cause we didnt have a RB , they can put any one back there and get a 100 yds. and we had clinton portis replacement carrying the rock a former 2 round draft pick....

How do you know whether or not Shanny was calling some of the those plays by overriding Bates???

[ANIMAL24]

No One Knows : /