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View Full Version : Given our current situation, how far is this team from a Superbowl.


Taco John
12-31-2008, 05:04 PM
Simple, straightforward question.

I believe that we have a team that is about 3 years off from a Superbowl. I figured this offseason, we'd shore up the defense, improve to the mid-to-higher teens in the rankings (with a playoff birth), spend another another year working on the defense and plugging any holes that develop on offense. The following year - a deep playoff run, with the sky being the limit from there.

Perhaps this is faulty. I'm curious how far off people see this team, given the talent and current situation.

Blueflame
12-31-2008, 05:08 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day and completely revamping this team won't happen instantly either, imho. It's gonna take time to acquire the necessary talent and for all the players to learn a new offensive and defensive system and to "gel" as a team (find their new "identity" if you will). Hopefully I'm wrong, but a season or two in the AFC West cellar wouldn't surprise me.

GarretBarnes
12-31-2008, 05:09 PM
i would have said one year had mike shanahan not been fired but for now it looks like 3.

summerdenver
12-31-2008, 05:13 PM
Assuming we make right hires we will be a play off contender in 2 years and sb in 3.

OBF1
12-31-2008, 05:13 PM
It really depends on who becomes GM, HC, assistants and how well the drafts go, but I am down for the 3 year plan.

Taco John
12-31-2008, 05:14 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day and completely revamping this team won't happen instantly either, imho. It's gonna take time to acquire the necessary talent and for all the players to learn a new offensive and defensive system and to "gel" as a team (find their new "identity" if you will). Hopefully I'm wrong, but a season or two in the AFC West cellar wouldn't surprise me.


We don't need a complete revamping though. Whatever anyone wants to say about Mike's record over the last ten years, he's put this organization in a great position to succeed. We've got a great offensive unit right now, with a lot of continuity built-in by way of their contracts. All we really need right now is a major effort on defense. The question really amounts to how long people think it will take to build the defense.

(note: I figure special teams to be built into the equation - as special teams is only as good as your depth and coaching)

Jason in LA
12-31-2008, 05:14 PM
I have no faith in this team making a Super Bowl run anytime soon.

tnedator
12-31-2008, 05:15 PM
All depends on the new head coach, specifically what happens on offense. If some of the current offensive staff is kept, and the current scheme is kept, then presumably the offense should be even better next year. So, they are ready to win now.

The only way the offensive staff stays in place is if we get a defensive minded head coach, or hire a current defensive coordinator. Based on this:

We need to upgrade 5-6 positions on defense, some of which should be able to be filled internally (such as possibly Barret at safety).

Via the draft or FA, we need to upgrade: MLB, SLB, FS, SS, DE, DE?

So, as to how far away we are, it depends on how long it takes to fill those five or six holes. If we pick up a stud DE in free agency, that could allow Dumervil and other in house DE's to rotate at the other end spot. Then, depending on how we address the LB spots (what role does Woodyard or Larsen have for instance), we likely need at least one LB, probably an MLB and a safety.

If we draft a stud, ready to play now MLB, and a safety, then we have the 'potential' to make a large leap (middle of the pack) on defense next year.

As to how long? You can't really answer that question, because when you start talking three years out, that is a lifetime in the NFL. What I mean is that in three years, we could be looking at another head coach, might not have Marshall (if we can't resign him), etc. There are simply too many variables in the NFL to look three years out, so the question is can we compete next year or the year after.

Fill those 5 holes on defense, with at least 3 people that aren't currently on the team, and we have an outside chance of being SB ready next year, but could very well be a SB contender in 2010. Beyond that, flip a coin.

rastaman
12-31-2008, 05:17 PM
Anyway you look at it, Cutler will be learning a new Offensive system so the question that should be asked will the Broncos go to the SB before Cutlers current contract runs out??? or at the end of Cutlers contract how close are the Broncos from going to the super bowl.

theAPAOps5
12-31-2008, 05:18 PM
Well most will say without Mike the team is 5 years away. But if Bowlen focuses on Defense and gets that retooled this team can be there much sooner. Shanahan layed the ground work on Offense now just fix the defense.

eddie mac
12-31-2008, 05:20 PM
i would have said one year had mike shanahan not been fired but for now it looks like 3.

LOL

So you reckon he was gonna figure out the defense in one draft/FA when he couldn't do it in the 3 years he already wasted on rebuilding that core???

Blueflame
12-31-2008, 05:21 PM
We don't need a complete revamping though. Whatever anyone wants to say about Mike's record over the last ten years, he's put this organization in a great position to succeed. We've got a great offensive unit right now, with a lot of continuity built-in by way of their contracts. All we really need right now is a major effort on defense. The question really amounts to how long people think it will take to build the defense.

(note: I figure special teams to be built into the equation - as special teams is only as good as your depth and coaching)

A lot depends on the new HC and whatever assistant coaches/staff he chooses... from today's perspective (without that information) it's hard to make an educated guess as to which (if any) of Shanahan's coaches would be retained, so I was going with the presumption that the new coach will bring in all his own guys and a totally new offensive and defensive scheme...

With changes this broad and sweeping, I don't see instantaneous improvement... or playoffs next year... as likely. I think we'll have at least two "rebuilding" years...

elsid13
12-31-2008, 05:21 PM
I am actually going with one. Unlike some I think this team is closer then people think.

Popps
12-31-2008, 05:27 PM
This is obviously a set-up poll for later use on Taco's part.

I'll guess 2 for fun, but I may as well guess how many inches of rain we'll get next month.

How can we possibly make that prediction without a new head coach/DC assigned?

eddie mac
12-31-2008, 05:27 PM
We don't need a complete revamping though. Whatever anyone wants to say about Mike's record over the last ten years, he's put this organization in a great position to succeed. We've got a great offensive unit right now, with a lot of continuity built-in by way of their contracts. All we really need right now is a major effort on defense. The question really amounts to how long people think it will take to build the defense.

(note: I figure special teams to be built into the equation - as special teams is only as good as your depth and coaching)

TJ his total blindness as to the real problem cost him another Superbowl in Denver and his job eventually. A premier DT or in reality a real NT. Instead he pumped draft picks and free agency/trade $$ into CB's, LB's and DE. The one DT he thought was for real pulled the wool over his eyes bigtime and cost the franchise another $12m for little return.

One Premier DT/NT in my opinion gives this team a playoff berth in one season. You cant run a system that expects the LB's to make all the plays, no other team in the league does that bar some 3-4 defenses and they still have better front 3's than the front 4's we've run over the last 3 years.

Blueflame
12-31-2008, 05:28 PM
I am actually going with one. Unlike some I think this team is closer then people think.

I might have agreed with you... if Shanahan had been retained.... and Slowik fired.

kmonty
12-31-2008, 05:37 PM
Who knows, but with even an average defense and guys that want to win, I think this team can compete with anyone.

Borks147
12-31-2008, 05:42 PM
I see a similar situation where Dungy left Tampa because he had grown stale and new blood (Gruden) won them a superbowl the first year with the old team.

yes, I'm optimistic by nature.

elsid13
12-31-2008, 05:45 PM
I might have agreed with you... if Shanahan had been retained.... and Slowik fired.

This is why I think it closer then people think

1. I think Bowlen and Goodman will ensure that Bates/Turner/Dennison/WR coach be retained. The playbook will shift a little but the still be the ZBS and power game team that we need to be successful. (there is already a statement on the official site the individual coaches will be review and retained as appropriate)
2. We will see a healthy Champ, DJ and Boss next year.
3. I think actually see defense system that put in place that all the players can understand and properly used in.
4. Denver has 31 million in cap room to get NT that to allows Thomas and Robinson to go back to the UT mode which they are better suited for. Improving the run defense is key to turning the defense around.
5. We have 10 draft picks and Goodman have shown a good eye for selecting talent
6. The draft is deep in three position for us - Safety, OC/OC and LB.
7. I think we able to find right rb in the draft to improve the red zone production. Plus we haveTorain, Young and Hillis coming back healthy next year.
8. Cutler is ready to explode next season. And really good QB has ability to carry a team to great heights.
9. Getting some heathly starters back allows Larson, Woodyard to focus on ST coverage. Both those guys are going to be key taking the next step.

Ace7
12-31-2008, 06:04 PM
Simple, straightforward question.

I believe that we have a team that is about 3 years off from a Superbowl. I figured this offseason, we'd shore up the defense, improve to the mid-to-higher teens in the rankings (with a playoff birth), spend another another year working on the defense and plugging any holes that develop on offense. The following year - a deep playoff run, with the sky being the limit from there.

Except its not so 'simple and straightforward' is it? Its harder to predict the future than it is to judge the past. And we don't even know who the coach(es) will be yet. So it seems rather a strange time to be posing the question.

Be that as it may, and just so I'm clear, you are saying that this team under Sahanahan would have won a SB within 3 years? Is that what you are saying?

Of course, we'll never know that because Shanny is now gone. But my gut feeling, based on the prior 10 years, is that we wouldn't have.

We almost certainly wouldn't have won it next season with the state of the defense and with the schedule we have. So that narrows it down to a window of two years...the 2nd and 3rd years.

Blueflame
12-31-2008, 06:04 PM
This is why I think it closer then people think

1. I think Bowlen and Goodman will ensure that Bates/Turner/Dennison/WR coach be retained. The playbook will shift a little but the still be the ZBS and power game team that we need to be successful. (there is already a statement on the official site the individual coaches will be review and retained as appropriate)
2. We will see a healthy Champ, DJ and Boss next year.
3. I think actually see defense system that put in place that all the players can understand and properly used in.
4. Denver has 31 million in cap room to get NT that to allows Thomas and Robinson to go back to the UT mode which they are better suited for. Improving the run defense is key to turning the defense around.
5. We have 10 draft picks and Goodman have shown a good eye for selecting talent
6. The draft is deep in three position for us - Safety, OC/OC and LB.
7. I think we able to find right rb in the draft to improve the red zone production. Plus we haveTorain, Young and Hillis coming back healthy next year.
8. Cutler is ready to explode next season. And really good QB has ability to carry a team to great heights.
9. Getting some heathly starters back allows Larson, Woodyard to focus on ST coverage. Both those guys are going to be key taking the next step.

Good thoughts.... but...

1. What if Shanahan gets a new HC gig and offers these guys jobs... and perhaps more $$ to go with him instead of staying on in Denver?
2. These guys should start the season healthy, but for how long? Injuries have been incredible in recent years and Boss, in particular, is very much injury-prone.
3. This new defensive scheme would have to be learned... and also include new talent at quite a few positions. It might not "gel" immediately even if it ultimately was successful.
4. Some semblance of a pass rush would also be nice. Even a marginal QB can look like Peyton Manning if he's allowed to sit comfortably in the pocket.
5. I'm very impressed with this year's draft and if they can keep making shrewd choices, yes, we could improve dramatically via the draft.
6. This is good because those are all areas of need this year.
7. If a couple of our RBs can come back healthy and 100%, we really shouldn't have to address RB... unless the coaches are looking for a PS prospect for the future.
8. Yes, Cutler is progressing nicely... sometimes he tries too hard to "make something happen" but more experience is what he needs most.
9. It would be very nice if the "injury bug" would relent just a bit... the RB injuries were inconceivable.

I still think the key to how long it's gonna be is exactly how much change the new HC brings... a lot of changes in schemes most likely will = more time to adjust to the changes and execute the way the coach wants and needs them to.

elsid13
12-31-2008, 06:12 PM
Good thoughts.... but...

1. What if Shanahan gets a new HC gig and offers these guys jobs... and perhaps more $$ to go with him instead of staying on in Denver? They are still under contract with Denver. 2. These guys should start the season healthy, but for how long? Injuries have been incredible in recent years and Boss, in particular, is very much injury-prone. We will add depth thru FA and draft, plus we have experience Larson and Woodyard now
3. This new defensive scheme would have to be learned... and also include new talent at quite a few positions. It might not "gel" immediately even if it ultimately was successful. It just needs to be improve as the season goes along, the offense is good enough to carry the team early
4. Some semblance of a pass rush would also be nice. Even a marginal QB can look like Peyton Manning if he's allowed to sit comfortably in the pocket.
Stopping the run on first down allows the defense to elimate other plays and we will get a better pass rush. To often this year team were 3rd and short and our defense had to watch for everything vs. just playing the pass. Med has excellent post about in the draft section.
5. I'm very impressed with this year's draft and if they can keep making shrewd choices, yes, we could improve dramatically via the draft.
6. This is good because those are all areas of need this year.
7. If a couple of our RBs can come back healthy and 100%, we really shouldn't have to address RB... unless the coaches are looking for a PS prospect for the future. I think will add another one via the draft

8. Yes, Cutler is progressing nicely... sometimes he tries too hard to "make something happen" but more experience is what he needs most.
A healthy running game will improve his completion rate and give us access to PA that missing this year.
9. It would be very nice if the "injury bug" would relent just a bit... the RB injuries were inconceivable.
Can not control this at all, we just hope and build depth.
I still think the key to how long it's gonna be is exactly how much change the new HC brings... a lot of changes in schemes most likely will = more time to adjust to the changes and execute the way the coach wants and needs them to. It football not rocket science, scheme and termalogy change all the time and the players can learn faster then you think.


Anwers in red

tnedator
12-31-2008, 06:19 PM
Anwers in red

It doesn't matter if they are under contract in Denver, as long as they get a promotion when hired away. If a QB coach is offered an OC job, then he is allowed out of his contract. If an OC is offered an assistant head coach job, he is allowed out of his contract.

The only thing they can't do is make lateral moves. An OC, for instance, while under contract, can't simply move to another team to become an OC.

Beyond that, someone said that there is a statement on the Broncos site that reiterated what Bowlen said, which is that they don't expect to keep any coaches, but each will be evaluated individually, but they are free to find jobs elsewhere. I haven't confirmed this myself, but someone posted that this statement was released by the Broncos.

Meck77
12-31-2008, 06:19 PM
We all speak as if the entire league remains constant while we plug our holes on the Dline, safety etc. Meanwhile 31 other teams are busting their humps trying to make improvements. The next LT could be waiting in the wings for the Patriots. The next Manning could be in this years draft and turn a franchise around ala Steelers style. My answer is it's impossible to tell but I'll bet the farm our Defense improves over the next two years and the BLOWOUTS slow down.

I laugh at the people who say we were on the rise. Maybe the offense was but this team was getting their asses kicked up and down the field the last two years. For crying out loud Shanny admitted he failed last year at 7-9.

Stop crying in the forum. So far the trolls have been kind but they'll be around to take their shots at some of these embarrassing posts soon enough.

After hanging out with some charger fans today I'm relieved shanny is gone. The weak ass chargers have owned us over the last few years. We all talk smak about how much they suck but they dominated us and kicked our freakin teeth in.

I seriously doubt we'll miss the playoffs for another 3 years. Shanny was soft on this team.

If I ever cross paths with Pat Bowlen in the lobby of a hotel again I'm buying that man a drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broncoman13
12-31-2008, 06:25 PM
Simple, straightforward question.

I believe that we have a team that is about 3 years off from a Superbowl. I figured this offseason, we'd shore up the defense, improve to the mid-to-higher teens in the rankings (with a playoff birth), spend another another year working on the defense and plugging any holes that develop on offense. The following year - a deep playoff run, with the sky being the limit from there.

Perhaps this is faulty. I'm curious how far off people see this team, given the talent and current situation.

I think that's reasonable but I think we can see a fairly quick defensive change with a new HC and some new player personnel. The offense's time is now. If next year's schedule wasn't so brutal I would bet on a deep playoff run then. I still think we can win the West next year but it will take a little time for this thing to click. 2010 and we'll be in the SuperBowl provided we get either a Defensive minded HC or a great Defensive Coordinator.

ScottXray
12-31-2008, 06:34 PM
I think it will take 3 years to build a decent defense, and that if the offense doesn't regress it should be good enough to get us there. On the other hand it is all speculation. An amazing draft and FA acquisitions and we could be there in 2. The schedule we have coming up and the changes that may or may not happen with the staff on offense sort of eliminate any real possibility of doing it next year.

I was very surprised that Bowlen said that he didn't have anyone in mind and that it was just time to move on. Of course I hope he actually has more in mind than he said.

Heres hoping that we get it going and get a great DC and coach, and don't screw up the offense.

Pick Six
12-31-2008, 07:08 PM
It really depends on the new coach. Look at what a new coach did for Miami and Atlanta. They're both still playing football when it seemed an unlikely event last year...

Spider
12-31-2008, 07:11 PM
Given our current situation, how far is this team from a Superbowl.?
Depends on where the Super Bowl is being held .......if Miami 2,000 and some odd miles

Archer81
12-31-2008, 07:18 PM
Simple, straight forward question on the Mane...uhh...


:Broncos:

elsid13
12-31-2008, 07:19 PM
Simple, straight forward question on the Mane...uhh...


:Broncos:

if you haven't notice the Mane no longer is in being. You are in the THUNDERDOME!

HEAV
12-31-2008, 07:23 PM
Let's wait and see whome is our new coach.

Taco John
12-31-2008, 07:26 PM
Let's wait and see whome is our new coach.


I don't understand this rationale. We don't need to know who the new coach is to determine what he'll have to work with. Is there a coach that you're going to say "well with *this* guy, it's going to take 5 years, but with *this* guy, it's going to take three.

I think people can look at this team, and pretty much guesstimate how far off they think it is from a Superbowl. That's what any coach is going to do - they're going to evaluate how far off we are, and make a decision largely based on it.

So if you're a new coach coming in and looking at our situation, how long do you think it would take to get this squad to contention?

Popps
12-31-2008, 07:32 PM
We don't even know who the coordinators will be. If we get to keep Bates and we bring in a strong, defensive-minded coach... may be a couple years from real contention, maybe less.

If we're starting with a young head coach and potentially a guy who wants to change the system and make larger-scale changes, it'll be potentially longer.

I think the key here is that one side of the ball is in good shape. One isn't. No matter how you slice that, you're probably a couple years away.

Rohirrim
12-31-2008, 07:33 PM
With the right draft and FA picks, two years. This offense is ready to go. Hillis gets back into the picture and another good change of pace back behind an Oline that just keeps improving. Imagine Clady next year? I would like to see the Center position upgraded. I suggest Unger from Oregon. But the main piece is the D, followed by special teams. My contention is the offense is so good that the D and STs only need to come up by about a half to win the division. Get somebody really good on the Dline (Peppers, Haynesworth, etc.) and it's into the second round and beyond. Of course, there's always the caveat: Barring injuries.

rbackfactory80
12-31-2008, 07:34 PM
Look what Parcells did with Miami. He could have this team at an easy 11 wins and a true contender next year. Depends who takes the job.

HEAV
12-31-2008, 07:38 PM
I don't understand this rationale. We don't need to know who the new coach is to determine what he'll have to work with. Is there a coach that you're going to say "well with *this* guy, it's going to take 5 years, but with *this* guy, it's going to take three.

I think people can look at this team, and pretty much guesstimate how far off they think it is from a Superbowl. That's what any coach is going to do - they're going to evaluate how far off we are, and make a decision largely based on it.

So if you're a new coach coming in and looking at our situation, how long do you think it would take to get this squad to contention?


Again...like your hero Shanny, you ignore one side of the ball.

You thread or poll should be do the BRONCOS have a Super Bowl offense. The best team wins TJ the best overall team.

Without knowing what system the new HC wants to run how can any of us answer your poll?

3-4 or 4-3, keep current players, bring in his type players. It's too early to give a time frame to this franchise, when we haven't a head coach.

Like I said until we have a coach and find out where he wants to go with this franchise, we can only say that the BRONCOS have a good offense.

Now that offense good be scary good with a legit running back/fullback tandem.

So at this time and point here's my answer:

Offense is two players away from Super Bowl.

Defense is incomplete at this current time.

Oh ya special teams still suck and Prater is a head case;D

Taco John
12-31-2008, 07:41 PM
Without knowing what system the new HC wants to run how can any of us answer your poll?

People aren't really having that hard of a time answering it. We all know the team we have now is not a Superbowl team. The question is, "given our current situation, how far off are we?"

So far, the answer is overwhelmingly "2 years."

I think that's a bit optimistic, but not out of the question.

Ratboy
12-31-2008, 07:44 PM
It all depends. If the new coach comes in and doesn't touch the defense, we're looking at 5 years.

If he can add some much needed players, we could be back in the playoffs next season.

I think 1-2 years is fair depending on how the coach plays his cards.

HEAV
12-31-2008, 07:46 PM
People aren't really having that hard of a time answering it. We all know the team we have now is not a Superbowl team. The question is, "given our current situation, how far off are we?"

So far, the answer is overwhelmingly "2 years."

I think that's a bit optimistic, but not out of the question.

People can vote/think what they want.

I'll wait and see what the new boss wants to run. Then I'll give a time table.

BroncoMan4ever
12-31-2008, 08:08 PM
i will come back and answer this question after we have signed our new coaching staff.
it is too soon to know or be able to say where the franchise stands.

Rohirrim
12-31-2008, 08:12 PM
That's what makes the draft so entertaining. The next Bob Sanders or Polamalu is out there somewhere. If the Broncos lucked into a player of that caliber for the D and picked up a couple of higher quality linemen, a whole new fire could get lit. Sometimes, it doesn't take a whole lot. Sometimes, just that one, key playmaker.

Popps
12-31-2008, 08:22 PM
People aren't really having that hard of a time answering it.

C'mon, dude... almost everyone has said that we need to have a coach in place before any poll like this is relevant. He's right.

How long will it take us to drive somewhere?

I don't know, what kind of car are we driving?

Bronco LB 59
12-31-2008, 08:44 PM
Denver's offense is so potent that the new coach could pull off a Jon Gruden 2002 if the right moves are made to shore up the defense.

elsid13
12-31-2008, 08:56 PM
C'mon, dude... almost everyone has said that we need to have a coach in place before any poll like this is relevant. He's right.

How long will it take us to drive somewhere?

I don't know, what kind of car are we driving?

It not that hard of the question. Pretend Bowlen is interviewing you for the GM job. Knowing the state of the franchise and players: "How long before you think the team will be able to make a legimate Superbowl run?"

dEADmANwALKING
12-31-2008, 09:04 PM
I'm thinking you'll look like old frail 99 year old Cubs fans in say..75 years.

azbroncfan
12-31-2008, 09:05 PM
Who knows? This team could go uphill or downhill with the new regime. It could take 2 years or 10 years. As bad as the D is I think 2 years would be somewhat homeristic but it is possible.

NFLBRONCO
12-31-2008, 09:13 PM
It really depends on the new coach. Look at what a new coach did for Miami and Atlanta. They're both still playing football when it seemed an unlikely event last year...

Miami's D is alot better then our so it was easier to turn things around in 1 yr.

baja
12-31-2008, 09:15 PM
i year

Broncojef
12-31-2008, 09:24 PM
If the new coach comes in and doesn't touch the defense, we're looking at 5 years.

LOL If someone comes in and does nothing to this defense we aint ever goin to the big dance. I think we are three years out. It'll just be nice to get someone in place and get going with a real defensive strategy, enough spinning the wheels, lets go boys!!!

SprintRightOption
12-31-2008, 09:41 PM
Well, it would be too bad if certain factions of Bronco nation start toeing the line of rooting against the team next year in hopes that a bad year will vindicate their anger/disappointment with Shanahan leaving. And I don't mean our "fearless honcho" TJ here. Some people here and elsewhere are showing the same signs as the people who essentially rooted against the team for the first 11 games of a recent season so that they would be proved right about something.

If we get a crappy coach, and end up 4-12 next year, it will suck, and the fact that they predicted it on 12/31/08 will not be the great consolation they need. It will just completely suck, and nobody wants that. If you know what I mean.


On topic, it's completely plausible that next year is a 11-5 season, or a 6-10 season. But if Jay Cutler is as good as we think and expect, he can be the rising tide that lifts all boats, 80-90% as good as elway getting playoff wins with teams that would've been 6-10 with some mediocrity like Sage Rosenfels or Kyle Orton. Or Brett Fav-ruh winning division titles with pretty average teams in Cheeseville from 2001-07.

An elite QB with a couple weapons can get to 6 wins with absolute garbage at 15 of 22 positions, or 10-11 wins with just short of average players and coaching. And we know Cutler can get to 8 wins with a defense that literally might be only equal to USC's defense. And it's not like Jay needed to have a career year (for him) to drag the D (and ST) along with him to .500.

Hopefully in July Jay will be thinking "Chill out. I got this."

Rock Chalk
12-31-2008, 10:20 PM
Simple, straightforward question.

I believe that we have a team that is about 3 years off from a Superbowl. I figured this offseason, we'd shore up the defense, improve to the mid-to-higher teens in the rankings (with a playoff birth), spend another another year working on the defense and plugging any holes that develop on offense. The following year - a deep playoff run, with the sky being the limit from there.

Perhaps this is faulty. I'm curious how far off people see this team, given the talent and current situation.

Considering the mess the defense is in, 2 years.

With or without Shanahan.

Rock Chalk
12-31-2008, 10:22 PM
The reality is people, next year's schedule at this point looks painfully brutal and with or without Shanny, this team will be (or would have been with Shanny) lucky to win 6 games.

The defense is in such a total mess that it will take two years to get into the top 16, aka average, defenses in the league and UNTIL that happens, this team is not a contender for anything other than second fiddle.

NFLBRONCO
12-31-2008, 10:31 PM
The reality is people, next year's schedule at this point looks painfully brutal and with or without Shanny, this team will be (or would have been with Shanny) lucky to win 6 games.

The defense is in such a total mess that it will take two years to get into the top 16, aka average, defenses in the league and UNTIL that happens, this team is not a contender for anything other than second fiddle.

Yep I just wonder if new HC will sign a big name FA or two this offseason to bolster D quicker or just build via draft.

baja
12-31-2008, 10:37 PM
The new coach is not going to bring any players the Goodmans will be going that.

~Crash~
12-31-2008, 10:43 PM
I would vote but I don't know the College ra ra coach we are bringing in ...

Taco John
12-31-2008, 11:56 PM
The reality is people, next year's schedule at this point looks painfully brutal and with or without Shanny, this team will be (or would have been with Shanny) lucky to win 6 games.

The defense is in such a total mess that it will take two years to get into the top 16, aka average, defenses in the league and UNTIL that happens, this team is not a contender for anything other than second fiddle.



If this team wins six games next year, there won't be a boulder in all of Colorado big enough for Bowlen to crawl underneath. He'll get absolutely creamed in the media. The man just thrust his HOF credentials on the line. For his sake, and ours, I hope that we win at least 9 games. The more the better. The spectre of Shanahan is going to hang around for a long time, and like always, the solution to that is winning.

We need to win.

NFLBRONCO
01-01-2009, 12:02 AM
If this team wins six games next year, there won't be a boulder in all of Colorado big enough for Bowlen to crawl underneath. The man just thrust his HOF credentials on the line. For his sake, and ours, I hope that we win at least 9 games. The more the better. The spectre of Shanahan is going to hang around for a long time, and like always, the solution to that is winning.

We need to win.

Who do you think should be our next coach TJ (not named Shanny)

watermock
01-01-2009, 12:13 AM
1 week ago I would said 2 years with a name DC and a draft with concentration on defense and a legit rb.

Maybe 2012. We are rudderless at this point.

baja
01-01-2009, 12:17 AM
If this team wins six games next year, there won't be a boulder in all of Colorado big enough for Bowlen to crawl underneath. He'll get absolutely creamed in the media. The man just thrust his HOF credentials on the line. For his sake, and ours, I hope that we win at least 9 games. The more the better. The spectre of Shanahan is going to hang around for a long time, and like always, the solution to that is winning.

We need to win.

Seen the schedule how many wins do you think Shanny would have had.

yavoon
01-01-2009, 12:18 AM
rebuilding years are like momentum, to some modest extent they exist, but mostly its bull****. most teams fluctuate around pretty randomly in terms of perceived potential, and actual results. Some ppl on this forum are obsessed w/ half decade "rebuilding" projects, which is complete crap and is not only entirely unfeasable but is frankly very maddenish.

Taco John
01-01-2009, 12:19 AM
Who do you think should be our next coach TJ (not named Shanny)

This is Bowlen's rig. I'm just along for the ride. I'm too shocked that Bowlen would disrupt this young team so recklessly right now to even honestly consider who should be our next coach. Whoever it is, all I know is that they're walking in the shoes of a coaching legend with the hottest young offense in the NFL, and more resources than we've had in over a decade to build a defense with. And they're walking into Denver. The expectation is going to be to win now.

Given all that, my preference would be that we hire someone who can handle that kind of pressure. Someone experienced, has had a program, made his mistakes, and is ready for another run. I have always like Mariucci. Past that, I'm drawing a blank for candidates who fit the criteria.

Taco John
01-01-2009, 12:20 AM
rebuilding years are like momentum, to some modest extent they exist, but mostly its bull****. most teams fluctuate around pretty randomly in terms of perceived potential, and actual results. Some ppl on this forum are obsessed w/ half decade "rebuilding" projects, which is complete crap and is not only entirely unfeasable but is frankly very maddenish.

As opposed to the fairy tale one year rebuilding projects?

Please.

Taco John
01-01-2009, 12:21 AM
Seen the schedule how many wins do you think Shanny would have had.

I said it before this season and during it - It's been my opinion that next year was the year that this team started to make some noise. I wasn't expecting Superbowl next year, but I was expecting some very promising things.

yavoon
01-01-2009, 12:24 AM
As opposed to the fairy tale one year rebuilding projects?

Please.

like I said, most teams fluctutate. denver has basically been .500 for 10 years plus one year of 13-3. Sure if ur like tennessee and a third of ur roster disappears in one year because mcnair has a 50 million dollar bonus coming due(and a bunch of other things) then yah u get to rebuild. Everyone else just fluctuates until hopefully they latch onto enough good players to be competitive. There are innumerable examples of ppl supposedly building to some "rebuilders crescendo" basically falling on face(expectation wise). rebuilding in most cases is like momentum, its fantasy crap.

baja
01-01-2009, 12:26 AM
I said it before this season and during it - It's been my opinion that next year was the year that this team started to make some noise. I wasn't expecting Superbowl, but I was expecting some very promising things.

Why do you think Shanny was going to be able to fix the D next year when his track record for the last several years has been a floundering aimless failure on a colossal scale.

baja
01-01-2009, 12:28 AM
There is no excuse for the pathetic D Shanny put on the field this season and that along with past D failures is what got him fired.

Taco John
01-01-2009, 12:29 AM
Why do you think Shanny was going to be able to fix the D next year when his track record for the last several years has been a floundering aimless failure on a colossal scale.

Because I thought he had finally struck the right chord by dumping Sundquist and promoting the Goodmans.

Taco John
01-01-2009, 12:29 AM
There is no excuse for the pathetic D Shanny put on the field this season and that along with past D failures is what got him fired.

If you say so. I can come up with a few... But you don't want to hear them.

baja
01-01-2009, 12:33 AM
Because I thought he had finally struck the right chord by dumping Sundquist and promoting the Goodmans.

That was a great move finally and I thought that would buy him another year but after this seasons horror show I guess Pat had enough and I understand that, hell even Shanny understands that.

baja
01-01-2009, 12:37 AM
If you say so. I can come up with a few... But you don't want to hear them.

Ya I do go ahead.

Doggcow
01-01-2009, 12:37 AM
Id say 3. 2 years and we're in the hunt, maybe a upset run like the Giants or Steelers, but in 3 I bet we're a favorite.

Broncojef
01-01-2009, 12:37 AM
Why do you think Shanny was going to be able to fix the D next year when his track record for the last several years has been a floundering aimless failure on a colossal scale.

That and looking the fans in the face and saying he's sticking with Slowick after the crap we had to endure watching all year. I think at that point even Bowlen said good grief this is outta control.

Broncojef
01-01-2009, 12:39 AM
If you say so. I can come up with a few... But you don't want to hear them.

As long as I don't have to ever watch a Broncos defense lead by Slowick ever again, talk at nauseum...

Taco John
01-01-2009, 12:42 AM
Ya I do go ahead.

We were rebuilding the team starting with the offense. All of our major resources went to that side of the ball... Meanwhile, we were amassing a ton of draft picks and more salary cap money than we've had in a decade to build a defense this upcoming season. All of the defensive free agents we've brought in since the rebuild started have been bargain basement free agents - warm bodies to fill spaces.

But, when you're a long time coach, rebuilding the team like that is a risky move, and you can't communicate that this is your strategy because of the ramifications of it.

I believe that if Bowlen had the guts to stick through and let Shanahan use the resources he amassed, we'd have our HOF coach lifting another lombardi trophy for us soon, and retiring a Denver Bronco, instead of suiting up for another team.

There's only one thing Bowlen can do that will ever make me forgive him for it: win a Superbowl within three years.

baja
01-01-2009, 12:49 AM
Five DCs in six years and that's just for starters.

We finished 30th (worse than the previous year) or less in several defensive categories , not the work of a HOF coach would you say?

BTW If Shanny was planning on a throw away season getting ready to build that D we have needed for 10 years why did he promise a playoff team?

watermock
01-01-2009, 12:54 AM
Shanahan is 52, hardly worn out. This isn't like Landry or Shula.

I'm sorry to say that in my opinion, this move was a tragic event. Shanan's big mistake was announcing that Slowick's job was safe before dicussing it with Bowlen.

The playoff promise was also ill advised, but Bates was the final straw IMO.

mattleecrew
01-01-2009, 12:56 AM
there is a foundation to this team even on defense but its still a few years from being solidified into something of quality. While it seems many are ready to label crowder, moss and thomas a bust defensively i wonder whether they suffer from not having consistent playing time. This active/unactive merry-go-round does nothing for any of them if we want to see how talented they are and the potential as starters, regular playing time is needed. Nothing can ever replicate real playing time which all three saw limited amounts of. I would feel better passing judgement on them if consistent playing time was delivered. I think all 3 can be passable, quality defenders if given time to develop and grow. That means regular time where they can live and learn. Combined with smart drafting and a couple of solid def free agent additions and this defense can be competitive. The tools are there with a few additions, we just need to give them time.

Taco John
01-01-2009, 01:28 AM
BTW If Shanny was planning on a throw away season getting ready to build that D we have needed for 10 years why did he promise a playoff team?

No one said anything about "throwing a season away." And the reason Shanahan "promised" a playoff team was because he was asked. Shanahan run teams always have high expectations, no exceptions.

Florida_Bronco
01-01-2009, 01:39 AM
I think that if we make the right hires, we could compete this year or in 2010 and here is why.

- Every position on offense, save for RB, is set.
- We have some talent on defense already, and some good coaching would make good use of that.
- Some of 2008's defensive started will be relegated to backup roles and also used to shore up the special teams.

If we really get lucky, we'll bring in some new coaches who will get more production out of our young players while adding key pieces in the draft and free agency. Provided that happens, Super Bowl talk in 09 is not out of line.

baja
01-01-2009, 01:42 AM
<b>No one said anything about "throwing a season away." </b>And the reason Shanahan "promised" a playoff team was because he was asked. Shanahan run teams always have high expectations, no exceptions.

Well that is what happened (throw away the season) and you say it was because the D left to wait until next year, these are poor excuses, excuses that Shanny refused to make.

As to the playoff promise, he never did that before so to say he was asked to promise a playoff spot so he did is also a poor argument.

Well TJ we will never know what Shanahan might have done what we do know is he did not get it done for a few years now (24 & 24), in fact those were his own words today. "I didn't get it done", Mike Shanahan.

Blueflame
01-01-2009, 01:56 AM
It seems to me that Shanahan's "playoffs" promise just might have been good if either Ryan Torain or Peyton Hillis had been able to stay healthy for just one more game. We missed the playoffs for two primary reasons. 1. Our defense was suspect all year and had trouble stopping anyone and 2. The absolutely ludicrous number of RB injuries. It's difficult for an offense to establish a rhythm at all when it's featuring a different RB almost every week.

Cito Pelon
01-01-2009, 04:32 AM
Simple, straightforward question.

I believe that we have a team that is about 3 years off from a Superbowl. I figured this offseason, we'd shore up the defense, improve to the mid-to-higher teens in the rankings (with a playoff birth), spend another another year working on the defense and plugging any holes that develop on offense. The following year - a deep playoff run, with the sky being the limit from there.

Perhaps this is faulty. I'm curious how far off people see this team, given the talent and current situation.

3 yrs sounds reasonable. Just show me some progress and I'm heartened. I want to see some titles fast. Been a bad stretch without titles. Some people think that's not a big deal, but it irritates me.

I've had my location as "Not in AFC West Championshipville' for nine out of the last ten years. That's inexcusable by Bronco standards.

Broncos_OTM
01-01-2009, 06:20 AM
C'mon, dude... almost everyone has said that we need to have a coach in place before any poll like this is relevant. He's right.

How long will it take us to drive somewhere?

I don't know, what kind of car are we driving?
Whose driving

Where too

What kind of gas mileage does it get.

will there be alot of police offericers.

do we have the money to get there.

driver
01-01-2009, 06:45 AM
IMO 1yr. heres why; all we need is a HC who has a good grasp of the Offense Shanahan has built and realises he doesn't need to change everything. He needs a DC who believes in a solid Defense base 4-3, employ man coverage with cover 2 overtop. and bring pressure. We need 2 DE's who can hold up against the run and get some rush pressure. A FS who can cover and a SLB who can play and stay on the field. I think all the other pieces are in place. Look at the Buffalo game the 1st 3 series 3 and out we were running blitz's line stunt, pressing their offense we get a 13 pt lead and start playing prevent, anyboby tell me why?

watermock
01-01-2009, 07:28 AM
Stupidiy from Slowick/Shanny. 112 points the last 3 games, continued support=the door. Pretty simple.

elsid13
01-01-2009, 07:52 AM
I have strange feeling Bowlen is looking for improvement next season. So anything over two year is unacceptable to him

Traveler
01-01-2009, 08:01 AM
We were rebuilding the team starting with the offense. All of our major resources went to that side of the ball...

If this was Shanahan's plan (which I don't think it was), then he got what he deserved. Why would anyone in their right mind neglect one side of their team purposely? Why couldn't he do both?

Meanwhile, we were amassing a ton of draft picks and more salary cap money than we've had in a decade to build a defense this upcoming season. All of the defensive free agents we've brought in since the rebuild started have been bargain basement free agents - warm bodies to fill spaces.

You seem to be forgetting that Shanahan's track record on the defensive side is woeful at best. Maybe the promoion of the Goodmans' might have helped as far as next years draft to begin the required repairs.

That said, we had defensive issues that should have been addressed for years. And as much as he Shanahan tried, he just wasn't very good at it. Had he stayed, no amount of effort put into the upcoming draft & free agency was/is going cure the ills of our defense.

As to the thread topic, my guess is 5 years before our possible SB run.

Traveler
01-01-2009, 08:01 AM
Stupidiy from Slowick/Shanny. 112 points the last 3 games, continued support=the door. Pretty simple.

QFT!

jmz313
01-01-2009, 08:10 AM
IN the current NFL you are always one year away. UNless your the lions, well, the fins did take 1-15 to 11-5. so anyone.

A good hire at coach, some good play, and a little luck; Denver could go 13-3. who knows. Could also go 3-13 if we get none of those.

Rohirrim
01-01-2009, 09:10 AM
I said it before this season and during it - It's been my opinion that next year was the year that this team started to make some noise. I wasn't expecting Superbowl next year, but I was expecting some very promising things.

I wasn't. I was expecting 4-12 with that schedule and no D. I have to agree with Romanowski - at some point, players are just tuning the coach out. They've heard it all before. There's nothing new. It's the SOS. The Broncos needed new blood at the top. A new voice. A wake up call. What Bowlen did, he did in the interests of the team. Judging by his presser performance yesterday, he did it against his own desires and friendship with Mike. That's leadership. I have new hope.

Rohirrim
01-01-2009, 09:15 AM
Nobody can realistically make the argument that Shanahan had built his offense and would now turn his attention to building his defense. He just announced that Slowitz was staying. So even if the Goodmans go out and get him another Sanders, Reed, Peppers, or whatnot, he's turning it over to a man who doesn't have a clue. He's going to build a Ferrari and toss the keys to Jethro.

footstepsfrom#27
01-01-2009, 09:26 AM
Two drafts of equivilent or nearly equivilent success to what we've experienced two of the last three years plus the talent already in the pipeline (Woodyard, Barrett, Thomas, Dumervil) should fix this defense if we can sign one major talent in FA. I said MAJOR talent...impact player...not another stop gap. The offense lacks only a feature runner and for all we know he may already be here. We need 2 front line D-line players, 1, possibly 2 LB's, and probably at least 1 safety. That's very doable in two drafts IF we continue the Goodman's pathway. In the meantime, I expect to see Cutler work on improving his tendency to throw picks as the defense begins to tighten and he doesn't feel like he has to score every trip down the field.

HEAV
01-13-2009, 07:39 AM
Now that we know the HC and the DC. With all the changes to come in scheme on both sides of the ball and the need to get talent (defense) to run the scheme, not to mention the time for the players to adjust to everything.

I vote 3 years to be consider a real Super Bowl contender.

watermock
01-13-2009, 07:51 AM
Fly on the wall:

Bowlen: "You have to fire Slowick."

Shanny: "I can't do that."

Bowlen: "Then I have to fire you."

Pretty simple.

Garcia Bronco
01-13-2009, 07:55 AM
i would have said one year had mike shanahan not been fired but for now it looks like 3.

I agree. That's why it was a dumb termination. It either should have been done 3 years ago or 2 years frmo now.

colonelbeef
01-13-2009, 08:07 AM
i would have said one year had mike shanahan not been fired but for now it looks like 3.

cosign

Taco John
01-13-2009, 08:48 AM
Shanan's big mistake was announcing that Slowick's job was safe before dicussing it with Bowlen.


Shanahan wasn't getting rid of Slowik regardless of what Bowlen wanted. It didn't matter when he announced it. Shanahan's feelings were "you're paying me to rebuild this team, and I'm going to rebuild it. If you want to pay someone else to rebuild it, that's your perogative."

Old Dude
01-13-2009, 11:08 AM
This team is loaded with young offensive talent. There is room for improvement, but it's already a playoff caliber offense.

With an average defense, this team would have made the playoffs. Even with a somewhat-below-average defense, this team would have made the playoffs. It took a defense of almost epic futility to hold this team down to 8-8.

There is hardly any place for that defense to go but up, and with that, the team should be in playoff contention next year.

But, even with a playoff caliber offense, it's unlikely that we'll see the super bowl without a substantially-above-average defense.

We are a long ways from that.

Rohirrim
01-13-2009, 11:12 AM
This team is loaded with young offensive talent. There is room for improvement, but it's already a playoff caliber offense.

With an average defense, this team would have made the playoffs. Even with a somewhat-below-average defense, this team would have made the playoffs. It took a defense of almost epic futility to hold this team down to 8-8.

There is hardly any place for that defense to go but up, and with that, the team should be in playoff contention next year.

But, even with a playoff caliber offense, it's unlikely that we'll see the super bowl without a substantially-above-average defense.

We are a long ways from that.

I love ya, OD, but you obviously haven't looked at next year's schedule. ;D

Taco John
01-13-2009, 11:14 AM
...the team should be in playoff contention next year.




I wonder if most people agree with this statement...

WolfpackGuy
01-13-2009, 11:15 AM
2 years to get back into realistic title contention

Year 1: Get the defense back to respectability, continue to shake the youth
(turnovers) out of the offense, and maybe make the playoffs.
Year 2: Make some noise in the playoffs
Year 3+: Deep playoff runs and Super Bowls

NUB
01-13-2009, 11:17 AM
Three years.

Cutler and a lot of the offense still has to improve and everyone knows about the defense. The lack of playoff experience will be a bit of the growing pains; I don't think Cutler and crew will instantly win a Lombardi their first knock at it.

razorwire77
01-13-2009, 11:30 AM
I voted for three years.

Next year's schedule is pretty brutal, but the AFC West will be weak again.

Year One = 9-7/10-6 just miss the playoffs/first round playoff exit. The offense continues to look brilliant at times, and the defense moves up to the low teens in points allowed.

Year Two= 10-6/11-5 Contend for AFC West Title, make some noise in the playoffs. Second year in the same defensive system, hopefully, at this point Denver has a feature RB to pair with Peyton, and another year of plugging the defensive holes

Year Three= 11-5/13-3 AFC West Title, and a serious playoff run, assuming we are able to keep all of our offensive players under contract, and the injury bug doesn't hit. Hopefully the third year with continuity of the same DC and the same defensive scheme. At this point, he'll have hopefully revamped the entire front seven, and has his players in the system.