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Dexter
03-01-2009, 02:16 AM
It's pretty classic. I'm straining to think of any better than this.

I'm starting to screen shot the most awesome parts, for later use. You're in a few of them :wave:

Popps
03-01-2009, 02:16 AM
Popps, your reaction to this is much more zealous than anyone else around here. Being on the other side doesn't make you any better.

The "other side?"

I just think it's silly, man. I've been watching this team for 30+ years. I'm not going to threaten our staff's lives because our 25 year old QB got an emotional owie.

I didn't say I was better. I'm just not down with the suicide club. Sorry.

Popps
03-01-2009, 02:17 AM
I'm starting to screen shot the most awesome parts, for later use. You're in a few of them :wave:

There's almost too much to archive, at this point. If you back-date your archives to include The Gutless... there's just too much to keep track of.

UberBroncoMan
03-01-2009, 02:27 AM
The "other side?"

I just think it's silly, man. I've been watching this team for 30+ years. I'm not going to threaten our staff's lives because our 25 year old QB got an emotional owie.

I didn't say I was better. I'm just not down with the suicide club. Sorry.

People aren't bitter because Cutler got an owie. It's because our new head coach thought that getting rid of Cutler for Cassel was a good idea which is ****ing stupid.

Popps
03-01-2009, 02:37 AM
People aren't bitter because Cutler got an owie. It's because our new head coach thought that getting rid of Cutler for Cassel was a good idea which is ****ing stupid.

Again, we don't know the full details. When I hear McDaniels come out and say that he thought it was a "good idea," I'll get worked up over this.

Beyond that, for all the speculation... the real truth here is, we don't know which QB will end up the better player over the long-run. I wouldn't have thought Ben Roth. would have turned out to be the player he is.

This very forum was filled with posts calling Tom Brady "average" (if not garbage) for years before people finally realized that just because he wasn't flashy... didn't mean he wasn't a great QB.

So, while YES, I'd much rather stick with Cutler (and we are) .... I'm also not going to say I know definitively that he'll have a better career than Cassel. I BELIEVE he will, but I haven't worked with either QB closely... McDaniels has, as well as working with Brady.

IF he felt there might be reason to entertain a trade, I'm assuming he's got information upon which he's basing that stance. No one on this forum has more direct ties to the situation than he does. It doesn't mean he can't be wrong... but it could mean perhaps he's seen things we haven't.

But, all that aside... he, and our GM said we're not trading Cutler. So, how big of a sob-fest does this need to be... really?

Bronco_Beerslug
03-01-2009, 04:11 AM
People aren't bitter because Cutler got an owie. It's because our new head coach thought that getting rid of Cutler for Cassel was a good idea which is ****ing stupid.Trading cry baby Cutler for Cassel would benefit this team just as sh*tcanning Shanahan will.

LonghornBronco
03-07-2009, 11:57 PM
Better yet let's trade him for Peyton Mannings back up. I hear he's pretty good.

Popps
03-08-2009, 03:13 PM
People aren't bitter because Cutler got an owie. It's because our new head coach thought that getting rid of Cutler for Cassel was a good idea which is ****ing stupid.

He listened to offers.

No player is beyond trading, especially a guy like Cutler who hasn't won anything and carries questions about his personality.

I personally believe we did the right thing by keeping him, but time will tell.

Oh, and yes... much of the sobbing around here has indeed been sympathy-sobbing for Jay's mental owie.

Whatever.

baja
03-08-2009, 05:09 PM
He listened to offers.

No player is beyond trading, especially a guy like Cutler who hasn't won anything and carries questions about his personality.

<b>I personally believe we did the right thing by keeping him, but time will tell.</b>

Oh, and yes... much of the sobbing around here has indeed been sympathy-sobbing for Jay's mental owie.

Whatever.

Not if the rumor was true that we were going to get Matt Cassel and Detriot's number #1 and #20. We should have done that.

Taco John
03-08-2009, 05:24 PM
He listened to offers.




Uh, no. The story progressed well beyond that. They were doing more than "listening" to offers. They were in full wheel and deal mode. If they could have gotten what Detroit was supposedly offering, good on them for doing it.

The reasons Cutler was angry with them had less to do with the fact that he was up for trade, but the fact that they were lying to him about it hoping that it wouldn't leak as much as it did.

Inkana7
03-08-2009, 05:32 PM
Uh, no. The story progressed well beyond that. They were doing more than "listening" to offers. They were in full wheel and deal mode. If they could have gotten what Detroit was supposedly offering, good on them for doing it.

The reasons Cutler was angry with them had less to do with the fact that he was up for trade, but the fact that they were lying to him about it hoping that it wouldn't leak as much as it did.

Speculation. The Broncos and the "News God" Adam Schefter both said that they simply listened. Those are the two most credible and closest sources.

broncosteven
03-08-2009, 06:16 PM
Foneco

Popps
03-08-2009, 09:36 PM
Not if the rumor was true that we were going to get Matt Cassel and Detriot's number #1 and #20. We should have done that.

Well, that's the thing. Everyone has a price. We have a lot of holes to fill and despite the "expert" opinions on this board (same folks who argued with me that Brady was "average")... the jury is still out on which one of these guys has the make-up of a championship quarterback.

As I said, I believe Cutler is more talented, but that's only part of the battle.

Popps
03-08-2009, 09:38 PM
Uh, no. The story progressed well beyond that. They were doing more than "listening" to offers. They were in full wheel and deal mode. If they could have gotten what Detroit was supposedly offering, good on them for doing it.

The reasons Cutler was angry with them had less to do with the fact that he was up for trade, but the fact that they were lying to him about it hoping that it wouldn't leak as much as it did.

Again, when the guy has more wins than losses, maybe we'll be more concerned with his case of the pouts.

Champ Bailey is a hall of famer, and he was traded. Many, many BETTER players than Cutler have been moved. Should it have leaked out? Of course not. Should we care that Jay's arse is tender over it? Please.

baja
03-08-2009, 09:57 PM
Well, that's the thing. Everyone has a price. We have a lot of holes to fill and despite the "expert" opinions on this board (same folks who argued with me that Brady was "average")... the jury is still out on which one of these guys has the make-up of a championship quarterback.

As I said, I believe Cutler is more talented, but that's only part of the battle.

I think the reason John Elway won two super bowls was mostly because TD fell into our laps and we had a decent D.

I'll take the well rounded team machine over the expensive franchise QB that leads the team with holes because of his cap hit.

If we were offered Cassel and the 1st pick (drop five slots to pick up a a second) in the draft and #20 we were crazy to pass.

tsiguy96
03-08-2009, 10:13 PM
I think the reason John Elway won two super bowls was mostly because TD fell into our laps and we had a decent D.

I'll take the well rounded team machine over the expensive franchise QB that leads the team with holes because of his cap hit.

If we were offered Cassel and the 1st pick (drop five slots to pick up a a second) in the draft and #20 we were crazy to pass.

yepppp, elway proved early in his career that a great QB may be able to get you to the SB, but when you are in the big dance it takes more then a QB to win. i think NFL network said it best when talking about SB32, something like "finally, elway had a team that was capable of carrying him"

Blueflame
03-08-2009, 10:23 PM
Again, when the guy has more wins than losses, maybe we'll be more concerned with his case of the pouts.

Champ Bailey is a hall of famer, and he was traded. Many, many BETTER players than Cutler have been moved. Should it have leaked out? Of course not. Should we care that Jay's arse is tender over it? Please.

The better question is "should we be concerned that Belicheater and Pioli made our new, inexperienced HC look like a dumbass?" 'Cause that, Popps, is what happened.

Popps
03-08-2009, 10:31 PM
The better question is "should we be concerned that Belicheater and Pioli made our new, inexperienced HC look like a dumbass?" 'Cause that, Popps, is what happened.

Yea, only you have no proof of that outside of the brilliant theory that Belichick took a 2nd rounder instead of a first so he could "get back at" McDaniels.

Yea, hall of fame coaches usually take lower draft picks when offered better ones.

:thumbs:

Blueflame
03-08-2009, 10:37 PM
Yea, only you have no proof of that outside of the brilliant theory that Belichick took a 2nd rounder instead of a first so he could "get back at" McDaniels.

Yea, hall of fame coaches usually take lower draft picks when offered better ones.

:thumbs:

Does it matter what was offered? That entire episode was a PR disaster for McD. Only a blind homer could argue that his reputation wasn't damaged by the unsuccessful trade-plan getting leaked.

Popps
03-08-2009, 11:50 PM
Does it matter what was offered? That entire episode was a PR disaster for McD. Only a blind homer could argue that his reputation wasn't damaged by the unsuccessful trade-plan getting leaked.

Well, there's no question it was a PR mess. Most of that is on the organization for not keeping better cap on trade negotiations. But, part of it is on ****ed up media coverage, as well. You STILL can't find three writers to tell you the same thing happened.

Then there's Jay Cutler. Again, if Jay comes out like a man and says.. "you know, I'm sorry to hear these rumors but I'm going to go out and win for whatever team I play for".... this story is OVER. Done. End of drama.

The media feeding frenzy started when they smelled blood in the water. (Jay whining like a scorned girlfriend.)

I'm not making excuses for the handling of whatever happened here. But, I'm also well aware how important this issue will be 6 months from now.

Not very.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 12:11 AM
Well, there's no question it was a PR mess. Most of that is on the organization for not keeping better cap on trade negotiations. But, part of it is on ****ed up media coverage, as well. You STILL can't find three writers to tell you the same thing happened.

Then there's Jay Cutler. Again, if Jay comes out like a man and says.. "you know, I'm sorry to hear these rumors but I'm going to go out and win for whatever team I play for".... this story is OVER. Done. End of drama.

The media feeding frenzy started when they smelled blood in the water. (Jay whining like a scorned girlfriend.)

I'm not making excuses for the handling of whatever happened here. But, I'm also well aware how important this issue will be 6 months from now.

Not very.

Such a PR disaster is unimaginable in the tightly-controlled Shanahan FO. It simply wouldn't have happened to a veteran HC. And logic says someone with an agenda deliberately leaked the info to the media. The media just did what the media would predictably do when the topic is a high-profile NFL player.

While one can take the position that Jay could have stopped the media frenzy (and no one's saying he couldn't have handled the situation better... "no comment"; here's my agent's number"), it was the FO whose actions created the debacle; hence it was their... or Bowlen's... place to put it to rest. The biggest unanswered questions still out there are

1) "Why did it take 4 days to do it?"... and
2) "Where in the hell is Pat Bowlen?"

Jay was not the only person involved who had the power to stop the speculation though... the team's allowing it continue for 4 days was inexcusable.

Popps
03-09-2009, 12:13 AM
Such a PR disaster is unimaginable in the tightly-controlled Shanahan FO.

Yea, well... Shanahan had his own set of problems...

-Dale Carter
-iHop
-Travis Henry
-Maurice Clarett

(For starters.)

How about the lie detector test fiasco?

Yea, Shanahan's never made any boo-boos, huh?

DBroncos4life
03-09-2009, 12:18 AM
Again, when the guy has more wins than losses, maybe we'll be more concerned with his case of the pouts.

Champ Bailey is a hall of famer, and he was traded. Many, many BETTER players than Cutler have been moved. Should it have leaked out? Of course not. Should we care that Jay's arse is tender over it? Please.

I know Bailey was traded and that is a fair way to look at the Cutler saga, but again look who Bailey was traded for. Portis had over 3000 rushing yards and 29 rushing tds in two years as a starter in Denver. Portis will be in the HOF as well. Hell Portis will still only be 28 at the start of this season. It seems like he has been in the NFL forever now. He has 9000 plus career rushing yards and 72 rushing TDs. Two more Portis like years for him and he should be a lock. So we traded a HOF player for a HOF player.
You look at the Cassel vs Cutler trade and I don't see any equal value for us at all other then McD got his golden boy and he got rid of the former coaches golden boy.

baja
03-09-2009, 12:19 AM
Well, there's no question it was a PR mess. Most of that is on the organization for not keeping better cap on trade negotiations. But, part of it is on ****ed up media coverage, as well. You STILL can't find three writers to tell you the same thing happened.

<b>Then there's Jay Cutler. Again, if Jay comes out like a man and says.. "you know, I'm sorry to hear these rumors but I'm going to go out and win for whatever team I play for".... this story is OVER. Done. End of drama. </b>

The media feeding frenzy started when they smelled blood in the water. (Jay whining like a scorned girlfriend.)

I'm not making excuses for the handling of whatever happened here. But, I'm also well aware how important this issue will be 6 months from now.



Not very.

See this is what I don't get, is not jay Cutler under contract and does that contract have a no trade close. Damn why is everyone catering to this kid. STFU and honor the contract you sighed.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 12:25 AM
Yea, well... Shanahan had his own set of problems...

-Dale Carter
-iHop
-Travis Henry
-Maurice Clarett

(For starters.)

How about the lie detector test fiasco?

Yea, Shanahan's never made any boo-boos, huh?

Free agency/draft busts hardly amount to the same type of PR blunder as a failed attempt to trade a starting QB, but whatever floats your boat.

Fwiw.... I absolutely hated the Dale Carter acquisition.... seeing him in orange and blue (and Steve Atwater, the cap casualty so that we could afford that locker room cancer, in green and white) was positively nauseating.

Your post sounds as if you're under the incorrect (wow, what a surprise! :P) assumption that I've approved of every decision Shanahan made. The truth is far, far from it... but it's not an either/or situation. One can take the position that McD may be in over his head while still believing that Shanahan made his own share of mistakes. I just don't think he would have made the rookie mistake McD made; that's all.

McD is on his first HC job. He's going to make mistakes.

Popps
03-09-2009, 12:31 AM
I know Bailey was traded and that is a fair way to look at the Cutler saga, but again look who Bailey was traded for. Portis had over 3000 rushing yards and 29 rushing tds in two years as a starter in Denver. Portis will be in the HOF as well. Hell Portis will still only be 28 at the start of this season. It seems like he has been in the NFL forever now. He has 9000 plus career rushing yards and 72 rushing TDs. Two more Portis like years for him and he should be a lock. So we traded a HOF player for a HOF player.
You look at the Cassel vs Cutler trade and I don't see any equal value for us at all other then McD got his golden boy and he got rid of the former coaches golden boy.

Fair enough, but what has Cutler done? He sneaked into one Pro Bowl. Cassel put together a season that should have taken his team to a playoff game without taking an NFL snap, prior. He garnered a high 2nd round pick and a quality vet in a trade, and most people thought he would have commanded a bit more.

Again, on paper... I'm with you. Cutler is the guy I want to keep around, but I'm not so sure Cassel isn't a high quality QB. I'm actually not happy he's ending up in K.C..

And, for the 100th time... we didn't pull the trigger and we don't really know what the deal was. So, it very well may have been a fair value trade for Cutler, a guy who's accomplished nothing in the league beyond some statistics.

Furthermore, the real issue here is... Champ Bailey (no matter who he was traded for) didn't squeal like a little girl when his name came up in talks. He moved on like a man. Jay made this situation MUCH worse, and some people speculate that wasn't an accident, and is a continuation play on him trying to get out of Denver.

There's too much shady info out there to take sides heavily either way, but one thing is beyond debate: if Cutler just handles this correctly, he helps his own situation, no matter where he ends up. But, he didn't.

Popps
03-09-2009, 12:33 AM
Free agency/draft busts hardly amount to the same type of PR blunder as a failed attempt to trade a starting QB, but whatever floats your boat. .

:spit:

Really?

I suggest you hit the rewind button and read a couple of articles about us drafting Mo, or signing Dale ****ing Carter.

Travis Henry came with issues, and not only did we sign that dumbass, Shanahan went to bat for him to the press, repeatedly.

Now the guy's in friggin' JAIL.

Yea, no PR problems at all.

DBroncos4life
03-09-2009, 12:48 AM
Fair enough, but what has Cutler done? He sneaked into one Pro Bowl. Cassel put together a season that should have taken his team to a playoff game without taking an NFL snap, prior. He garnered a high 2nd round pick and a quality vet in a trade, and most people thought he would have commanded a bit more.

Again, on paper... I'm with you. Cutler is the guy I want to keep around, but I'm not so sure Cassel isn't a high quality QB. I'm actually not happy he's ending up in K.C..

And, for the 100th time... we didn't pull the trigger and we don't really know what the deal was. So, it very well may have been a fair value trade for Cutler, a guy who's accomplished nothing in the league beyond some statistics.

Furthermore, the real issue here is... Champ Bailey (no matter who he was traded for) didn't squeal like a little girl when his name came up in talks. He moved on like a man. Jay made this situation MUCH worse, and some people speculate that wasn't an accident, and is a continuation play on him trying to get out of Denver.

There's too much shady info out there to take sides heavily either way, but one thing is beyond debate: if Cutler just handles this correctly, he helps his own situation, no matter where he ends up. But, he didn't.

Pops Cassel had the better team period.

Think about this Pops. What team did the Lions rookie HC come from? The Titans. Its no secret that Jeff Fischer wanted Cutler big time and Im sure Jim Schwartz knows Cutler very well. As is the Lions have their pick at any QB in this NFL draft with the No 1 pick and I think it speaks very high of the fact they would rather make the move for Cutler and take a chance with someone unproven.
Both teams that wanted Jay coached D for their former teams and both are rookies. They see the value in having a guy like Cutler and was making the move for him NOT Cassel.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 01:05 AM
Fair enough, but what has Cutler done? He sneaked into one Pro Bowl. Cassel put together a season that should have taken his team to a playoff game without taking an NFL snap, prior. He garnered a high 2nd round pick and a quality vet in a trade, and most people thought he would have commanded a bit more.

Again, on paper... I'm with you. Cutler is the guy I want to keep around, but I'm not so sure Cassel isn't a high quality QB. I'm actually not happy he's ending up in K.C..

And, for the 100th time... we didn't pull the trigger and we don't really know what the deal was. So, it very well may have been a fair value trade for Cutler, a guy who's accomplished nothing in the league beyond some statistics.

Furthermore, the real issue here is... Champ Bailey (no matter who he was traded for) didn't squeal like a little girl when his name came up in talks. He moved on like a man. Jay made this situation MUCH worse, and some people speculate that wasn't an accident, and is a continuation play on him trying to get out of Denver.

There's too much shady info out there to take sides heavily either way, but one thing is beyond debate: if Cutler just handles this correctly, he helps his own situation, no matter where he ends up. But, he didn't.

It's my opinion that behind KC's suspect O-line, Cassel will struggle like other recent KC QB's.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 01:15 AM
:spit:

Really?

I suggest you hit the rewind button and read a couple of articles about us drafting Mo, or signing Dale ****ing Carter.

Travis Henry came with issues, and not only did we sign that dumbass, Shanahan went to bat for him to the press, repeatedly.

Now the guy's in friggin' JAIL.

Yea, no PR problems at all.

Comparing apples and oranges... typical Popps gambit.

I'm very much aware of how much controversy was generated by Shanahan's draft/FA busts. He didn't march in and instantly (unsuccessfully) try to trade Elway for... say... Boomer Esiason... before winning his first game as a Bronco HC though. Very different situation....

Again, I think someone else with an agenda deliberately leaked the Cutler trade attempt info and for whatever reason, McD walked right into it.

Popps
03-09-2009, 01:30 AM
Comparing apples and oranges... typical Popps gambit.

Really, Blueflame?

Your words:

"PR Nightmare"

Your assertion was that this kind of thing would never happen on Shanahan's watch. I gave you multiple examples of much bigger disasters than Jay's case of the pouts.

So, you go ahead and obsess over it, but you're simply incorrect. The notion that Shanahan ran some sort of clean ship without PR flaw is absurd.

Popps
03-09-2009, 01:34 AM
As is the Lions have their pick at any QB in this NFL draft with the No 1 pick and I think it speaks very high of the fact they would rather make the move for Cutler and take a chance with someone unproven.
.

Of course the Lions would want Cutler over any of this year's rookie crop of QBs. It's a marginal QB crop, at best. That's just simple math.

As for speaking highly... the demand for Cassel was high, and McDaniels saw that guy play every single day in practice and then all season long. He was willing to (allegedly) make SOME sort of deal for him involving a Pro Bowl QB.

So, if you want high praise... McDaniels knows Cassel as well as anyone in the league, and thinks very highly of him, as well.

If nothing else, Cutler/Cassel being in the same division is going to make for great drama.

Add in the Cutler/Phyllis feud, and there's going to be some venom in the AFC West next season.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 01:35 AM
Really, Blueflame?

Your words:

"PR Nightmare"

Your assertion was that this kind of thing would never happen on Shanahan's watch. I gave you multiple examples of much bigger disasters than Jay's case of the pouts.

So, you go ahead and obsess over it, but you're simply incorrect. The notion that Shanahan ran some sort of clean ship without PR flaw is absurd.

I maintain that the situation... leakage of a failed attempt at trading a starting QB; then allowing the ensuing media feeding frenzy to continue for 4 days... would not have happened under any veteran HC, including Shanahan.

And no, those were not bigger PR disasters because they never called Shanahan's competency into question because his credentials were solidly established. Which isn't true with McD regardless of apples-to-oranges comparison attempts.

Popps
03-09-2009, 02:04 AM
I maintain that the situation... leakage of a failed attempt at trading a starting QB; then allowing the ensuing media feeding frenzy to continue for 4 days... would not have happened under any veteran HC, including Shanahan.

And no, those were not bigger PR disasters because they never called Shanahan's competency into question because his credentials were solidly established. Which isn't true with McD regardless of apples-to-oranges comparison attempts.

Yea, he's out of a job... so, I'm going to go ahead and say that these types of events DID call his competency into question. That, and the fact that his team won a single playoff game in ten years.

elsid13
03-09-2009, 02:50 AM
You can not compare the Champ situation in DC with Cutler at all. Champ was at end of his contract and had been franchised. At the same time he was refusing to sign either the tender and demanding a trade or his release.

This still remains a **** up, you do not trade away a rising talent under his rookie contract for a back-up. All indication are the Cutler best years are ahead him and appears that he has attitude to continue to develop and be better.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 03:24 AM
Yea, he's out of a job... so, I'm going to go ahead and say that these types of events DID call his competency into question. That, and the fact that his team won a single playoff game in ten years.

He's out of a job because he refused to cut Slowik loose. Not very many HC's can work in the NFL for 13 years with only 2 seasons ending up under .500. "Incompetent" ones certainly don't stay with the same team for 13 years.... (see: Norv Turner)... they get fired after 2 or 3.

None of the "PR disasters" you cited was the reason he's out of a job... otherwise he'd have been gone when they happened, no? Dale Carter? Gimme a break... if that were the reason, he'd have been fired nearly a decade ago. :P

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 08:01 AM
You can not compare the Champ situation in DC with Cutler at all. Champ was at end of his contract and had been franchised. At the same time he was refusing to sign either the tender and demanding a trade or his release.

This still remains a **** up, you do not trade away a rising talent under his rookie contract for a back-up. All indication are the Cutler best years are ahead him and appears that he has attitude to continue to develop and be better.

That is very debatable.

TheReverend
03-09-2009, 08:09 AM
Fair enough, but what has Cutler done? He sneaked into one Pro Bowl. Cassel put together a season that should have taken his team to a playoff game without taking an NFL snap, prior. He and a quality vet garnered a high 2nd round pick in a trade, and most people thought he would have commanded a bit more.

Fixed.

Again, on paper... I'm with you. Cutler is the guy I want to keep around, but I'm not so sure Cassel isn't a high quality QB. I'm actually not happy he's ending up in K.C..

And, for the 100th time... we didn't pull the trigger and we don't really know what the deal was. So, it very well may have been a fair value trade for Cutler, a guy who's accomplished nothing in the league beyond some statistics.

Furthermore, the real issue here is... Champ Bailey (no matter who he was traded for) didn't squeal like a little girl when his name came up in talks. He moved on like a man. Jay made this situation MUCH worse, and some people speculate that wasn't an accident, and is a continuation play on him trying to get out of Denver.

There's too much shady info out there to take sides heavily either way, but one thing is beyond debate: if Cutler just handles this correctly, he helps his own situation, no matter where he ends up. But, he didn't.

Champ actually ASKED to be traded because of some personal issues in the DC area...

baja
03-10-2009, 08:31 PM
<b>Just a reminder;</b>


There are some really good meltdown posts being wasted on other threads that will drift off into obscurity so if you got a great hand wringing rant / whine to post do it here where it will be remembered for years to come.

Don't miss out on immortality.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-10-2009, 08:43 PM
Taco pretty much nailed this from the beginning.

Firing Shanahan has had a domino effect and currently the Broncos are in hell.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 12:34 PM
Another round of applause for the "greatest owner in sports" please!

SoCalBronco
03-15-2009, 12:35 PM
Taco pretty much nailed this from the beginning.

Firing Shanahan has had a domino effect and currently the Broncos are in hell.

I ****ing hate agreeing with Bob.

Ray Finkle
03-15-2009, 12:47 PM
Fixed.



Champ actually ASKED to be traded because of some personal issues in the DC area...

Champ didn't ask to be traded. He and Lavar were offered similar contracts. Lavar agreed and Champ told Snyder that he could never win a championship in DC because of his hands on approach and lack of GM with a back bone. Champ was traded because he wouldn't resign. He never requested a trade (taken from a good source I have).

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 12:50 PM
Champ didn't ask to be traded. He and Lavar were offered similar contracts. Lavar agreed and Champ told Snyder that he could never win a championship in DC because of his hands on approach and lack of GM with a back bone. Champ was traded because he wouldn't resign. He never requested a trade (taken from a good source I have).

That may be so. I've heard differently from another source, but I certainly wouldn't consider discrediting you or your source, so that may very well be the case.

Ray Finkle
03-15-2009, 01:06 PM
That may be so. I've heard differently from another source, but I certainly wouldn't consider discrediting you or your source, so that may very well be the case.

Champ may have said, I am leaving anyway so you may want to trade me but never demanded a trade. He would have played out his final year with the Skins.

24champ
03-15-2009, 01:07 PM
Champ didn't ask to be traded. He and Lavar were offered similar contracts. Lavar agreed and Champ told Snyder that he could never win a championship in DC because of his hands on approach and lack of GM with a back bone. Champ was traded because he wouldn't resign. He never requested a trade (taken from a good source I have).

He wasn't going to resign because his wife didn't want to stay in DC long term, as TheRev stated....it was because of personal reasons.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:08 PM
He wasn't going to resign because his wife didn't want to stay in DC long term, as TheRev stated....it was because of personal reasons.

This, yes.

Popps
03-15-2009, 01:17 PM
I ****ing hate agreeing with Bob.

It should tell you something.

SoCalBronco
03-15-2009, 01:19 PM
It should tell you something.

Indeed, it does.

For all of his faults, Bob does provide a good service in the respect that he has no problem pointing out our homerism or the McD Koolaid. That's valuable, because the last thing we need is to turn into Broncomania.

Ray Finkle
03-15-2009, 03:11 PM
He wasn't going to resign because his wife didn't want to stay in DC long term, as TheRev stated....it was because of personal reasons.

That was spin....he personally told Snyder that he thought the front office was inept....

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 03:14 PM
That was spin....he personally told Snyder that he thought the front office was inept....

Then we've come full circle. It's like the Cutler situation then. ;)

Ray Finkle
03-15-2009, 03:18 PM
Then we've come full circle. It's like the Cutler situation then. ;)

truth be told we already knew Snyder and the FO was inept....don't yet know about Denver.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 03:20 PM
truth be told we already knew Snyder and the FO was inept....don't yet know about Denver.

Less than two months... sheer chaos. I think it's become apparent at this point, sadly, Ray.

Blart
03-18-2009, 01:05 PM
I'd like to go on record agreeing with Taco John here. Bad move, and we'll be lucky if we're 8-8 next season.

I wasn't going to quote myself until we lost 8 games, but the situation is already so bad I'm feelin pretty vindicated, so I'll do it now.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 06:44 PM
Bump...?

:)

24champ
06-15-2009, 10:11 PM
Here is an old article with Woody interviewing the CEO of the Broncos...some interesting tidbits I have quoted. You can read the entire article here-

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12281980

Bowlen would have preferred that the Broncos had drafted more defensive players last weekend.

The owner paused and said: "I have short-term memory loss. I know that some of the memories of the Super Bowl championships are fading."

"If I wanted to make a fortune, I'd sell the team," he said. "But I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing, and we're fine financially." (Fortune magazine valued the Broncos at $1 billion last year.)

Bowlen and his wife, Annabel, have five children, but the Broncos' owner said none has expressed "aspirations about running a football team."

Looks like you are right Rev on that one, none of the Kids want to take over this cluster****.

Meck77
06-15-2009, 10:19 PM
Looks like you are right Rev on that one, none of the Kids want to take over this cluster****.

From a real property standpoint if none of the kids are really interested in owning the team then maybe there is reason to sell. Without the passion then it's just about money and destined to fail. Well that is unless we Bronco fans buy them right Rev?;D

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 10:23 PM
From a real property standpoint if none of the kids are really interested in owning the team then maybe there is reason to sell. Without the passion then it's just about money and destined to fail. Well that is unless we Bronco fans buy them right Rev?;D

You get it to the 10% mark. I'll present it and get the rest.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 10:32 PM
You're going to get exactly what you deserve for such a gutless move. When this team is floundering without an identity and our offensive core is bailing on us, remember this is what you wanted.

Prophetic...

Popps
06-15-2009, 10:36 PM
Prophetic...

Wait, it's Bowlen's fault Brandon is holding out?

The guy didn't know until last week if he'd even be able to play this year.

There were rumors of Marshall potentially missing up to half the season, or more.

We just find out he's (supposedly) not suspended, and it's suddenly Bowlen's fault he hasn't been rewarded with a massive contract in the last 48 hours or so?

So, your advice would have been for us to reward Brandon with a potential (2nd) suspension looming?

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 10:41 PM
Wait, it's Bowlen's fault Brandon is holding out?

The guy didn't know until last week if he'd even be able to play this year.

There were rumors of Marshall potentially missing up to half the season, or more.

We just find out he's (supposedly) not suspended, and it's suddenly Bowlen's fault he hasn't been rewarded with a massive contract in the last 48 hours or so?

So, your advice would have been for us to reward Brandon with a potential (2nd) suspension looming?

Nope. Just saying it's remarkable how he called that.

As for Marshall, I've been saying without an extension he should be holding out this off-season since week 2 vs the Chargers.

Kuper should be, as well.

Popps
06-15-2009, 10:47 PM
As for Marshall, I've been saying without an extension he should be holding out this off-season since week 2 vs the Chargers.


Well, I would have been all in favor of extending him before his most recent slappy-fight. Now, it's just silly... unless done under very self-protecting terms.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 10:49 PM
Well, I would have been all in favor of extending him before his most recent slappy-fight. Now, it's just silly... unless done under very self-protecting terms.

More dropped charges.

And, yes, conduct and suspension clauses with ability to recoup otherwise guaranteed signing bonus money can be put in there.

UberBroncoMan
06-15-2009, 11:25 PM
Wait, it's Bowlen's fault Brandon is holding out?

To be fair... by giving in to Cutler when so many other teams have said **** off and deal with it to their star players, it's basically given Marshall the confidence to do what he's doing.

If Cutler was still here I guarantee Marshall wouldn't be saying **** because of the star QB can't get his way, he's got no chance in hell.

So while Cutler was an ass hat for now showing the **** up and dealing with the FO. The FO was just as ****ing stupid for not forcing a player under contract (with 3 more years no less) to play for them after letting the situation go bananas.

Popps
06-15-2009, 11:28 PM
More dropped charges.

And, yes, conduct and suspension clauses with ability to recoup otherwise guaranteed signing bonus money can be put in there.

Dropped or not, the league made it clear that they still may have acted.

Luckily, they didn't.... I guess.

****, maybe we would have been better off if he was suspended for a few games. At least then we could have avoided this.

watermock
06-16-2009, 12:36 AM
Dropped or not, the league made it clear that they still may have acted.

Luckily, they didn't.... I guess.

****, maybe we would have been better off if he was suspended for a few games. At least then we could have avoided this.

Avoided what? The issue with his ex is still on he docket, remember? the one that demanded 500K?

Popps
06-16-2009, 12:43 AM
Avoided what? The issue with his ex is still on he docket, remember? the one that demanded 500K?

I would have demanded more if I were her.

But, point being... without the more recently slap-fest, there may have been a chance we had him locked up by now. With pending suspension, there was no way.

Meck77
06-16-2009, 03:42 AM
You get it to the 10% mark. I'll present it and get the rest.

I know of one guy who can get his hands on trillions. Only problem is it's all funny money that he just prints up. ;D He's busy buying GM and other failing industries though.

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 07:13 AM
I know of one guy who can get his hands on trillions. Only problem is it's all funny money that he just prints up. ;D He's busy buying GM and other failing industries though.

At first I read it and said, "This guy sounds just like Obama"

And I paused...

And then I lol'd.

You are one:

http://www.chickscafe.com/images/slyfox2.jpg

XXXII
06-20-2009, 09:26 AM
Bump...it's always fun to discuss the gutless drunk

Pseudofool
06-20-2009, 09:36 AM
There's nothing prophetic about predicting a diva-WR would holdout during the last year of his rookie contract. Many more of us should have seen this coming.

Taco John
06-20-2009, 12:10 PM
That's not what the prediction was. The prediction was that our offensive core would bail on us. But even I didn't believe that it would happen in year one.

Popps
06-20-2009, 12:16 PM
Our offensive core is our line. With CW signing back on, it's still in tact.

Marshall isn't gone yet, and we've likely added better depth at WR than we've had in a while.

If Moreno pans out to his apparent ability, there's no reason to believe this offense won't be just as effective. (16th in scoring.)

If by "core," you meant the guy who threw 7 more TDs than INTs and made messy pants with the playoffs on the line, then yea... good call.

Baba Booey
06-20-2009, 12:34 PM
Our offensive core is our line. With CW signing back on, it's still in tact.

Marshall isn't gone yet, and we've likely added better depth at WR than we've had in a while.

If Moreno pans out to his apparent ability, there's no reason to believe this offense won't be just as effective. (16th in scoring.)

If by "core," you meant the guy who threw 7 more TDs than INTs and made messy pants with the playoffs on the line, then yea... good call.

I loffed.

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 12:36 PM
Our offensive core is our line. With CW signing back on, it's still in tact.

Marshall isn't gone yet, and we've likely added better depth at WR than we've had in a while.

If Moreno pans out to his apparent ability, there's no reason to believe this offense won't be just as effective. (16th in scoring.)

If by "core," you meant the guy who threw 7 more TDs than INTs and made messy pants with the playoffs on the line, then yea... good call.

Well said.

Orton is the core now.

rastaman
06-20-2009, 12:54 PM
Well said.

Orton is the core now.

Yeah RIGHT!!!! :~ohyah!: Speaking of CORE, I understand the Broncos sells department can't supply the local merchants with enough Orton jersey's, theres the a waiting list......b/c Mesiah-CORE Orton is the second coming!

CORE = CHAMPIONSHIP!!! ;D

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 12:58 PM
Yeah RIGHT!!!! :~ohyah!: Speaking of CORE, I understand the Broncos sells department can't supply the local merchants with enough Orton jersey's, theres the a waiting list......b/c Mesiah-CORE Orton is the second coming!

CORE = CHAMPIONSHIP!!! ;D

I had mine custom.

rastaman
06-20-2009, 01:33 PM
I had mine custom.

Bearman......you just might end up right about Orton going from ugly duckling to a Swan! However, I just can't see it. Orton will need to prove he's not a journeyman-stop gap career QB.

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 01:43 PM
Bearman......you just might end up right about Orton going from ugly duckling to a Swan! However, I just can't see it. Orton will need to prove he's not a journeyman-stop gap career QB.

I'm sure as Bronco fans you all laughed at Drew Brees supporters early in his career as well

Miss I.
06-20-2009, 01:46 PM
I'm sure as Bronco fans you all laughed at Drew Brees supporters early in his career as well

no where is Naperville, IL? Just curious. Have a friend who lives in Chicago so just wondered where you were in relation...are you sure you aren't hotrod or BroncoBuff or something?

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 01:50 PM
no where is Naperville, IL? Just curious. Have a friend who lives in Chicago so just wondered where you were in relation...are you sure you aren't hotrod or BroncoBuff or something?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=naperville+il&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=WUs9SoWxAoOqNeCkyKAO&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1

Not far from Chicago. In the past twenty years Naperville's gotten really big though. We're one of the biggest cities in IL now.

And, yeah, I'm 100% certain I'm not "Hotrod" or "BroncoBuff"

Meck77
06-20-2009, 01:53 PM
BearMan 18 sounds an awful lot like a Taco John.

Miss I.
06-20-2009, 01:53 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=naperville+il&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=WUs9SoWxAoOqNeCkyKAO&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1

Not far from Chicago. In the past twenty years Naperville's gotten really big though. We're one of the biggest cities in IL now.

And, yeah, I'm 100% certain I'm not "Hotrod" or "BroncoBuff"

cool, I liked Chicago when I went there in the fall. Pretty in the fall. As for the other just curious, given the also recent appearance of that Orton guy too...

TDmvp
06-20-2009, 01:53 PM
BearMan 18 sounds an awful lot like a Taco John.

ROFL!

Popps
06-20-2009, 01:55 PM
BearMan 18 sounds an awful lot like a Taco John.

Pretty creative, huh?

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 01:57 PM
cool, I liked Chicago when I went there in the fall. Pretty in the fall. As for the other just curious, given the also recent appearance of that Orton guy too...

I love it. I've lived here since I was little for around 25 years.

I'm under an hour away from six flags and gurnee mills. I'm about 3 hours away from Milwaukee (I go to Summerfest every year). Though Naperville's gotten big, it's still nice, in my opinion at least. Broncosteven seems to disagree... I think he even called me a "yuppie".

Miss I.
06-20-2009, 02:01 PM
I love it. I've lived here since I was little for around 25 years.

I'm under an hour away from six flags and gurnee mills. I'm about 3 hours away from Milwaukee (I go to Summerfest every year). Though Naperville's gotten big, it's still nice, in my opinion at least. Broncosteven seems to disagree... I think he even called me a "yuppie".

yeah closest I lived was sadly Kansas City...it was pretty there in the fall also, but that's the only season I liked there...I hail form mainly CA and AZ, most recently CO and now England...I like England, but I miss American convenciences and friends and family

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 02:25 PM
yeah closest I lived was sadly Kansas City...it was pretty there in the fall also, but that's the only season I liked there...I hail form mainly CA and AZ, most recently CO and now England...I like England, but I miss American convenciences and friends and family

I'll tell ya, in winter I wish I lived I down there! Wouldn't mind selling my snow plow one bit.

Taco John
06-20-2009, 02:43 PM
BearMan 18 sounds an awful lot like a Taco John.


It's not me. I don't have that kind of time to kill.

BroncoBuff
06-20-2009, 02:50 PM
BearMan 18 sounds an awful lot like a Taco John.

I was thinking that yesterday, so I checked TJ's post history ... he basically stopped posting. ???

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 02:51 PM
I was thinking that yesterday, so I checked TJ's post history ... he basically stopped posting. ???

So did you.

BroncoBuff
06-20-2009, 02:52 PM
So did you.

You got me sheriff! :~ohyah!:

BearMan18
06-20-2009, 02:54 PM
You got me sheriff! :~ohyah!:

Good. Now that we've established I'm you, please send nudes of our wife. :)

Meck77
06-20-2009, 11:27 PM
Plummer would actually appreciated this thread........Cutler? Someone is probably pulling his head out of a toilet. Talk about a gutless drunk?

Go Broncos!

Taco John
06-21-2009, 12:09 AM
I was thinking that yesterday, so I checked TJ's post history ... he basically stopped posting. ???

Seriously, I don't have time for such things. I just moved into my bosses role due to her moving to another company and only have time to be a smartass in three sentances or less a couple times a day.

Blueflame
06-21-2009, 12:56 AM
I was thinking that yesterday, so I checked TJ's post history ... he basically stopped posting. ???

In the past week, I've "basically stopped posting" too.. real life has kept me as busy as a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.... it happens.

DHallblows
06-21-2009, 11:27 AM
In the past week, I've "basically stopped posting" too.. real life has kept me as busy as a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.... it happens.

...so YOU'RE BearMan18 ???

Blueflame
06-21-2009, 12:22 PM
...so YOU'RE BearMan18 ???

LOL Nope... but if "fewer posts this week" makes one a "suspect"... Ha!

Seamus
06-21-2009, 12:55 PM
Yeah RIGHT!!!! :~ohyah!: Speaking of CORE, I understand the Broncos sells department can't supply the local merchants with enough Orton jersey's, theres the a waiting list......b/c Mesiah-CORE Orton is the second coming!

CORE = CHAMPIONSHIP!!! ;D

Flew through Chicago last weekend and saw a Chicago Cutler jersey already. I flew through Denver about a month ago and didn't see a Orton jersey so I think there is a conspiracy, Denver colors must be hard to come by for material.

Not to mention some Mo had a Griese jersey on the plane, WTF no room in the rag bin?

DHallblows
06-21-2009, 02:39 PM
LOL Nope... but if "fewer posts this week" makes one a "suspect"... Ha!

;D

Odysseus
06-22-2009, 12:39 AM
Seriously, I don't have time for such things. I just moved into my bosses role due to her moving to another company and only have time to be a smartass in three sentances or less a couple times a day.

That has been the case for me for the past couple of years. You are the keeper of a wide range or personal histories in this transient little cyber airport. I am glad you are keeping this rolling in the right direction unlike our favorite gutless drunk. I don't know what to make of McD right now but we will see.

HILife
06-22-2009, 04:52 AM
Good. Now that we've established I'm you, please send nudes of our wife. :)

and here sister.:approve:

Meck77
07-28-2009, 01:00 AM
Goodbye off season! Thanks for the memories!

watermock
07-28-2009, 05:00 AM
Yeah, I'm excited!

spdirty
07-28-2009, 06:47 AM
You're going to get exactly what you deserve for such a gutless move. When this team is floundering without an identity and our offensive core is bailing on us, remember this is what you wanted.

TJ the prophet.