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View Full Version : On Cutler: Enforcement of the DB touching/chucking rule has made avg QBs Superstars


bronco0608
12-30-2008, 12:47 PM
If you look at the statistics of the QBs since the NFL made it a point of emphasis to prevent CBs from touching/pushing/chucking WRs after 5 yards you will see a noticable trend of QBs with exploding statistics.

We have seen every individual passing record broken, with Manning getting the tds mark, Brady with passing yards (I think) and so forth.

Is it even that big of deal for a healthy QB to get 3,000 yards in a season anymore? Absolutely not.

QBs stats are inflated and skewed now.

Back in the day, it took the Troy Aikmans, John Elways, and Brett Favres a couple of seasons to adjust to the NFL. Now? You got guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco stepping right in and producing seasons that coaches would have killed for from their veteran QBs in the late 80s and early 90s.

So if you think about it, Jay Cutler would have thrown about 30 interceptions this year if the CBs were allowed to bully WRs down the field since he likes to take "chances" and fit the ball into tight spaces. Would Jay even be playing 15 years ago? Probably not, because he would have turned the ball over too much. He would have been the cannon arm kid with the two cents head. And how many potential ints did Cutler have this year had the DB simply not dropped the pass directly too him? It's staggering. Cutler threw the 2nd most ints this year. That's terrible.

To me, Cutler has been disappointing simply because of his decision making. He really makes dumb mistakes on the field ala Plummer. Four red zone ints? You know how deflating that is to a team?

Cutler is no smarter than Plummer. Because of the emphasis on the passing rules, QBs like Cutler are now "superstars" when in fact they are simply benefactors of rules that make it nearly impossible for a WR NOT TO BE OPEN.

If Culter doesn't change, Shanahan is going to have to start managing the game with him like he did with Plummer.

Inkana7
12-30-2008, 12:49 PM
This team has problems. Those who think Cutler is one of them are retarded.

Steve Prefontaine
12-30-2008, 12:50 PM
This team has problems. Those who think Cutler is one of them are retarded.

QFT

Peoples Champ
12-30-2008, 12:50 PM
I Blame Peyton Manning.

Offense sells tickets/jerseys, Defense wins championships.

bronco0608
12-30-2008, 12:55 PM
This team has problems. Those who think Cutler is one of them are retarded.

Is even possible to discuss Cutler around here in a completely objective and isolated way without every two teeth having sheep blarring, "bhaaa, we team suck, cutler god?"

Is that even possible?

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 12:58 PM
If you look at the statistics of the QBs since the NFL made it a point of emphasis to prevent CBs from touching/pushing/chucking WRs after 5 yards you will see a noticable trend of QBs with exploding statistics.

We have seen every individual passing record broken, with Manning getting the tds mark, Brady with passing yards (I think) and so forth.

Is it even that big of deal for a healthy QB to get 3,000 yards in a season anymore? Absolutely not.

QBs stats are inflated and skewed now.

Back in the day, it took the Troy Aikmans, John Elways, and Brett Favres a couple of seasons to adjust to the NFL. Now? You got guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco stepping right in and producing seasons that coaches would have killed for from their veteran QBs in the late 80s and early 90s.

So if you think about it, Jay Cutler would have thrown about 30 interceptions this year if the CBs were allowed to bully WRs down the field since he likes to take "chances" and fit the ball into tight spaces. Would Jay even be playing 15 years ago? Probably not, because he would have turned the ball over too much. He would have been the cannon arm kid with the two cents head. And how many potential ints did Cutler have this year had the DB simply not dropped the pass directly too him? It's staggering. Cutler threw the 2nd most ints this year. That's terrible.

To me, Cutler has been disappointing simply because of his decision making. He really makes dumb mistakes on the field ala Plummer. Four red zone ints? You know how deflating that is to a team?

Cutler is no smarter than Plummer. Because of the emphasis on the passing rules, QBs like Cutler are now "superstars" when in fact they are simply benefactors of rules that make it nearly impossible for a WR NOT TO BE OPEN.

If Culter doesn't change, Shanahan is going to have to start managing the game with him like he did with Plummer.

first off, if the rule enforcement was as it was, then Cutler plays a different game. Further more our defense would play differently. Lastly, we had to throw because we couldn't consistently run the ball with anyone from week-to-week. It's all interconnected and you can't really go back and say what the conditions would be like under this senario B, but then speculate the outcome of senario B based on the results on senario A when the senarios are not equal. It doesn't mathmatically add up. There are too many confounding variables that you can't control and draw any kind of realistic conclusion.

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 12:59 PM
This team has problems. Those who think Cutler is one of them are retarded.

Cutler has his issues. He's also hasn't even played for 3 seasons yet.

Inkana7
12-30-2008, 01:01 PM
Is even possible to discuss Cutler around here in a completely objective and isolated way without every two teeth having sheep blarring, "bhaaa, we team suck, cutler god?"

Is that even possible?

It is if your "theory" made sense, and you know, actually was objective.

bronco0608
12-30-2008, 01:02 PM
first off, if the rule enforcement was as it was, then Cutler plays a different game. Further more our defense would play differently. Lastly, we had to throw because we couldn't consistently run the ball with anyone from week-to-week. It's all interconnected and you can't really go back and say what the conditions would be like under this senario A, but then speculate the outcome based on the results on senario A. It doesn't mathmatically add up.

Our running game was fine every week. Check the stats. We were 2nd in the league in rushing average at 4.8 PER CARRY. 2nd in the league, so for you to say that would couldn't consisently run the ball game after game is completely false. You have nothing statiscally to back that up.

You have a faulty premise of thinking that if that the rule was enforced, Cutler would be play different. How do you know that? Wasn't Warren Moon and Dan Marino chucking passes left and right in the 80's. I could say that Cutler would throw the ball twice as much before the rule enforcement and that would have as much as weight as what you said. You are speculating as much as I am.

Jason in LA
12-30-2008, 01:03 PM
So the league finally decides to enforce the illegal contact rule, and this is a problem?

Inkana7
12-30-2008, 01:04 PM
Our running game was FINE? Are you kidding me? You claim to be objective and then make that claim just because it would back up your theory. 7 RBs down. 7! And the only good one went down when it counted.

Blart
12-30-2008, 01:04 PM
I agree that QB's of today should not have stats compared to QB's of the 80's and early 90's.


edit: nevermind, Cutler did throw a rather high % of INT's this year, though he was well below Romo, Roethlisberger and Favre.

bronco militia
12-30-2008, 01:04 PM
Our running game was fine every week. Check the stats. We were 2nd in the league in rushing average at 4.8 PER CARRY. 2nd in the league, so for you to say that would couldn't consisently run the ball game after game is completely false. You have nothing statiscally to back that up.

You have a faulty premise of thinking that if that the rule was enforced, Cutler would be play different. How do you know that? Wasn't Warren Moon and Dan Marino chucking passes left and right in the 80's. I could say that Cutler would throw the ball twice as much before the rule enforcement and that would have as much as weight as what you said. You are speculating as much as I am.


we were in the bottom 3rd for rushing attempts...the running game may be fine, but it was mostly ignored throughout the season.

baja
12-30-2008, 01:05 PM
Is even possible to discuss Cutler around here in a completely objective and isolated way without every two teeth having sheep blarring, "bhaaa, we team suck, cutler god?"

Is that even possible?

Well first you have to have 200 posts that's the rule on discussing Jay Cutler.

missingnumber7
12-30-2008, 01:05 PM
This team has problems. Those who think Cutler is one of them are retarded.

I don't see Cutler as one of the 'problems' on this team. But there are plenty of areas where he can get even better, especially at finding open receivers in the middle of the field.

Inkana7
12-30-2008, 01:07 PM
I don't see Cutler as one of the 'problems' on this team. But there are plenty of areas where he can get even better, especially at finding open receivers in the middle of the field.

And I trust that to happen. Dude's only in his 3rd year. 2nd full year starting.

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 01:08 PM
Our running game was fine every week. Check the stats. We were 2nd in the league in rushing average at 4.8 PER CARRY. 2nd in the league, so for you to say that would couldn't consisently run the ball game after game is completely false. You have nothing statiscally to back that up.


Well. That's the thing about stats, the can say one thing, but the reality is they don't really tell you what's going on out there. For example, do you know who our leading rusher was against buffalo? Our 2nd wide reciever. The only consistent runner we had all season was Peyton Hillis. Once he went down our shot at the plyoffs went down with him.

bronco0608
12-30-2008, 01:08 PM
we were in the bottom 3rd for rushing attempts...the running game may be fine, but it was mostly ignored throughout the season.

And we still finished with the 12th most rushing yards in the league. But I agree with you, we really did ignore the running game when in fact, no matter who we threw back there, they were successful. Doesn't make sense.

In reality, it doesn't matter who we put back there because as everyone knows, we make 1000 yards runners out of running backs that aren't even in the league two years after they leave us e.g Droughns, T.Bell, Gary, M.Anderson and so forth.

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 01:10 PM
I don't see Cutler as one of the 'problems' on this team. But there are plenty of areas where he can get even better, especially at finding open receivers in the middle of the field.

Exactly. Pre snap reads and finding the open man. Somebody is always open. I think Cutlers biggest problem is that he's greedy on the football field. He wants more, and sometimes he needs to take what the defense gives him.

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 01:12 PM
I agree that QB's of today should not have stats compared to QB's of the 80's and early 90's.


edit: nevermind, Cutler did throw a rather high % of INT's this year, though he was well below Romo, Roethlisberger and Favre.

By percentage, I assume you mean INT's per pass attempt?

manchambo
12-30-2008, 01:15 PM
Is even possible to discuss Cutler around here in a completely objective and isolated way without every two teeth having sheep blarring, "bhaaa, we team suck, cutler god?"

Is that even possible?


It is possible. But your post is retarded.

Did it even occur to you that, if the rules were different, Cutler might adjust his game to account for them?

What we know is that Cutler is an execeptionally talented quarterback who has been succesful so far, except that he's thrown a few too many interceptions. His interceptions are part and parcel of him being very aggressive slinging the ball around. For the most part, the good of his gunslinging outweighs the bad, but he needs to keep his head more in key situations (i.e., don't try to make a touchdown on every play and throw less red zone interceptions). To put it slightly differently, he generally takes full advantage of the rules to create an explosive passing game.

Cutler, like Brady Manning and others, plays very well under the current rules. He does that because he is tremendously gifted physically, and is reasonable smart football-wise. To assume that he or anyone else wouldn't be able to adjust their strategy to play under the previous rules is totally unfounded.

LonghornBronco
12-30-2008, 01:18 PM
I think his game is progressing fine. He has shown the ability to adjust to defenses. Early in the season it was bombs away, now that corners are turning and running he's throwing the quick hooks and slants, and drilling it in there. He is definitly not the problem, if we had 22 cutlers we would have won the division (scratch that 29 cutlers 7 spares for RB.)

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 01:18 PM
Not only that, but he had many pass attempts and this gives him experience. Even though we didn't win the Super Bowl this year, every problem is an opportunity in disguise.

bronco0608
12-30-2008, 01:19 PM
It is possible. But your post is retarded.

Did it even occur to you that, if the rules were different, Cutler might adjust his game to account for them?

What we know is that Cutler is an execeptionally talented quarterback who has been succesful so far, except that he's thrown a few too many interceptions. His interceptions are part and parcel of him being very aggressive slinging the ball around. For the most part, the good of his gunslinging outweighs the bad, but he needs to keep his head more in key situations (i.e., don't try to make a touchdown on every play and throw less red zone interceptions). To put it slightly differently, he generally takes full advantage of the rules to create an explosive passing game.

Cutler, like Brady Manning and others, plays very well under the current rules. He does that because he is tremendously gifted physically, and is reasonable smart football-wise. To assume that he or anyone else wouldn't be able to adjust their strategy to play under the previous rules is totally unfounded.

What strategy does Cutler have right now with his INTS? Throw stupid passes at the most inopportune time?

Your post doesn't even make sense.

BroncoMan4ever
12-30-2008, 01:20 PM
Give me a break. Cutler is the only reason this team finished 8-8 and not 2-14. Of course he was going to have a lot of mistakes this season, he threw the ball 616 times this season with 18 INTs, meaning 2.9% of his passes were intercepted. Rivers threw 11 INTs on 478 attempts and 2.3% were intercepted.
Kurt Warner 598 attempts and 14 INTs for a 2.3% INT rate
Drew Brees 635 attempts and 17 INTs for a 2.7% INT rate
Eli Manning 479 attempts and 10 INTs for a 2.1% INT rate
Peyton Manning 555 attempts and 12 INT's for a 2.2% INT rate
Brett Favre 522 attempts and 22 INT's for a 4.2% INT rate

The point being. amongst this years pro bowlers Jay is basically right in line with the amount of their passes being intercepted. He is getting a bad rep for his total of INT's because he has thrown more than practically every other QB in the league.

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 01:21 PM
What strategy does Cutler have right now with his INTS? Throw stupid passes at the most inopportune time?

Your post doesn't even make sense.

Dude he's young and learning the postion in the NFL and doing a damn fine job. I figure you got two choices. One is go along with it because he's not going any where anytime soon, or....welll I think you know this one.

BroncoMan4ever
12-30-2008, 01:26 PM
Our running game was fine every week. Check the stats. We were 2nd in the league in rushing average at 4.8 PER CARRY. 2nd in the league, so for you to say that would couldn't consisently run the ball game after game is completely false. You have nothing statiscally to back that up.

You have a faulty premise of thinking that if that the rule was enforced, Cutler would be play different. How do you know that? Wasn't Warren Moon and Dan Marino chucking passes left and right in the 80's. I could say that Cutler would throw the ball twice as much before the rule enforcement and that would have as much as weight as what you said. You are speculating as much as I am.

OK, how many times must yards per carry be discussed here? a good YPC average doesn't mean anything when our RB's are getting stopped for no gain or 1 and 2 yard gains and then later in the game breaking a 20 yard run to give them a good average.
no gains and short gains and then a decent run make a players YPC average seem better than the running game is actually performing.

Jason in LA
12-30-2008, 01:29 PM
Because of the issues with the running game the Broncos were in pass mode all the time. Teams knew that they were passing. That makes it hard on a QB, but Cutler still played well for the most part. Give them a more balanced offense and Cutler will look a lot better.

Speaking about the int percentage, in '04, when Plummer threw 27 ints, 3.8% of his passes were picked. That's with about 521 passing attempts. The next year he threw the ball 450 times because they ran the ball a lot more and his percentage was down to 1.5.

Hopefully they can fix the running game and that would make life a lot more easier for Cutler. It will keep the opponent off balance.

Jason in LA
12-30-2008, 01:34 PM
Our running game was fine every week. Check the stats. We were 2nd in the league in rushing average at 4.8 PER CARRY. 2nd in the league, so for you to say that would couldn't consisently run the ball game after game is completely false. You have nothing statiscally to back that up.



I'd say that stat is misleading. The running game worked at times because the D was reading pass all the time. If the Broncos tried to run the ball 35+ times a game, which would force the opponent to respect their run, their yards per carry would be much lower.

bronco0608
12-30-2008, 01:38 PM
I'd say that stat is misleading. The running game worked at times because the D was reading pass all the time. If the Broncos tried to run the ball 35+ times a game, which would force the opponent to respect their run, their yards per carry would be much lower.


If that is case, then why does New Orleans having a rushing yard per attempt rank of 23rd in the league when they lead the league in passing yards? High passing attempts does not equal high rush per yard attempt.

You can't be selective like that especially with us. No matter who we put back there, they were successful. You could even argue that no back we played this year was anymore talented than the one that played the previous week. We started with Selvin Young and ended with Tatum Bell. Its not like we had a Adrian Peterson go down.

Grumps
12-30-2008, 01:41 PM
Get Cutler a solid/dependable run game and this team is a playoff contender. He makes mistakes because he is the offense and the pressure is on him. Get him a solid/dependable run game and throw in a 15th or better ranked defense and this team is a SB threat.

Of all the things to bag on the Broncos after this season Cutler should be way down on the list.

Garcia Bronco
12-30-2008, 01:45 PM
Get Cutler a solid/dependable run game and this team is a playoff contender. He makes mistakes because he is the offense and the pressure is on him. Get him a solid/dependable run game and throw in a 15th or better ranked defense and this team is a SB threat.

Of all the things to bag on the Broncos after this season Cutler should be way down on the list.

It doesn't even need to be top 15. It just needs to be able to stop the run

MagicHef
12-30-2008, 01:53 PM
Marino still has the yards mark.

ohiobronco2
12-30-2008, 02:12 PM
If that is case, then why does New Orleans having a rushing yard per attempt rank of 23rd in the league when they lead the league in passing yards? High passing attempts does not equal high rush per yard attempt.

You can't be selective like that especially with us. No matter who we put back there, they were successful. You could even argue that no back we played this year was anymore talented than the one that played the previous week. We started with Selvin Young and ended with Tatum Bell. Its not like we had a Adrian Peterson go down.

Maybe it is because we have a better O line than NO. And perhaps there are worse D's in the AFC west, who we play the most games against. NO is in a very strong D division.

manchambo
12-30-2008, 10:04 PM
What strategy does Cutler have right now with his INTS? Throw stupid passes at the most inopportune time?

Your post doesn't even make sense.

His strategy is to make dangerous throws. Often they wind up with spectacular catches and big gains. Sometimes they wind up with INTs.

I wouldn't have thought that would be particularly hard to understand.

DB_champ24
12-30-2008, 10:37 PM
Matt Ryan and Flacco had such good rookie campaigns because their teams had top running games and would just pound the ball most of the game. Throw that away and Ryan isn't rookie of the yr and Flacco is a pile of gabage.

Rock Chalk
12-30-2008, 10:43 PM
OK, how many times must yards per carry be discussed here? a good YPC average doesn't mean anything when our RB's are getting stopped for no gain or 1 and 2 yard gains and then later in the game breaking a 20 yard run to give them a good average.
no gains and short gains and then a decent run make a players YPC average seem better than the running game is actually performing.

I dont agree with the premise of this thread but I do agree with the idea that the run game was fine (at least until Hillis went down).

Everyone sees the 1 yard gains, the stops at the line but here's a fact:

Denver had the best success rate at running the ball of anyone in the league (at least up till Hillis went down).

Young, pittman, Hall, Torain and Hillis all were stopped for minimal gain FEWER TIMES than any other team in the league. FootballOutsiders whose stats are by no means gospel but do provide a bit better insight than rushing averages, showed that Denver was successful over 98% of the time it ran the ball.

These stats take situation into account. 1 yard gain on 3rd and 1 is a successful run. A 2 yard gain on 2nd and 10 is not. Denver's run game was FAR better than the yokels here seemed to think it was, but Bates in his infinite wisdom decided we were going to be a pass happy bunch. Case in point. In the first San Diego game, coming out of Half time we run the ball for a 6 yard gain on first down. Then throw two incompletions and punt and afterwards Cutler said this (and I quote) "We came out after the half and our run game wasnt working". No, the passing game wasnt working. The run game was fine.

Not one game this season, even early when the run game was still at its best, did we run the ball more than we passed.

Cutler's issues with the interceptions are glaring. Yes his interception percentage is on par with the rest of the top tier QBs but the OP also mentions the MULTIPLE dropped interceptions that should have been caught by defenders. Against Cleveland there were THREE alone. Now you cant count all of those against him but you can count every one of those as a bad decision pass.

And I dont care if you are John Elway, a red zone interception will NEVER win the hearts of fans. Cutler was remarkably stupid in the red zone.

Now he will get better, but in his decision making he has regressed from last year. He missed open receivers more times than I can even count this year, and this was especially noticeable in the two games I got to go to this year (NO and KC). I can remember at least 8 times he missed wide open receivers down the seam because he stared down Marshall and decided to zip it into double coverage.

This is something he REALLY needs to work on this offseason. His decision making needs to be paramount in his offseason activities. Focus on reading the field and understanding the coverages. I dont mind the interception so much as the bad decisions. Some picks are not his fault, most were because he simply did not choose to look elsewhere for open guys.

Cutler is not the problem though, its the ****ing defense.

nickademus
12-30-2008, 11:58 PM
This thread is an epic fail. I hope we all feel better now that we can admit that we have been baited by a twelve year old girl.

Lidderer
12-31-2008, 12:41 AM
This thread is an epic fail. I hope we all feel better now that we can admit that we have been baited by a twelve year old girl.


haha oh man, you gotta love posts like this that just bring zilch to the table(nota bene: this post does the same, but purely for observational reasons) and yet parade righteous attitude nonetheless.

Dude makes valid points and you counter with lame attacks? I think the real 12 year old has been spotted.

Wes Mantooth
12-31-2008, 12:48 AM
I Blame Peyton Manning.

Offense sells tickets/jerseys, Defense wins championships.

I blame the lack of boob mojo.

The MVPlaya
12-31-2008, 12:53 AM
first off, if the rule enforcement was as it was, then Cutler plays a different game. Further more our defense would play differently. Lastly, we had to throw because we couldn't consistently run the ball with anyone from week-to-week. It's all interconnected and you can't really go back and say what the conditions would be like under this senario B, but then speculate the outcome of senario B based on the results on senario A when the senarios are not equal. It doesn't mathmatically add up. There are too many confounding variables that you can't control and draw any kind of realistic conclusion.

I need to paste that in every single post in which someone uses an IF statement for football.

missingnumber7
12-31-2008, 08:26 AM
Marino still has the yards mark.

Brees needed 402 in the final game to break that and he didn't get it.

Kaylore
12-31-2008, 08:29 AM
This thread is an epic fail. I hope we all feel better now that we can admit that we have been baited by a twelve year old girl.

Yes. Epic fail.

no-pseudo-fan
12-31-2008, 08:37 AM
I do not blame Cutler for this year. Our runningback situation made the pass lanes smaller and smaller as teams figured out that we couldn't run on them. Cutler will be better next year, and I hope that our RB can stay healthy.

Gort
12-31-2008, 08:49 AM
Cutler has his issues. He's also hasn't even played for 3 seasons yet.

and next year, you can say he hasn't even played for 4 seasons yet. and the year after that, you can say he hasn't even played for 5 seasons yet. etc.

the fact is that Cutler has already been outperformed by 2 less gifted rookies in their first seasons. Flacco and Ryan. they'll be practicing football this week. Cutler will be somewhere practicing his golf swing.

i want Cutler to become the next Elway as much as the next Broncos fan does, but right now, i don't know if that's more or less likely than him becoming the next Jeff George.

he needs to come into 2009 camp on a mission.

Gort
12-31-2008, 08:52 AM
And I dont care if you are John Elway, a red zone interception will NEVER win the hearts of fans. Cutler was remarkably stupid in the red zone.

on another thread, it was said that he threw FIVE interceptions when inside the opponent's 10 yard line this year. FIVE. that's a season killing stat.

BroncoFiend
12-31-2008, 09:40 AM
And we still finished with the 12th most rushing yards in the league. But I agree with you, we really did ignore the running game when in fact, no matter who we threw back there, they were successful. Doesn't make sense.

In reality, it doesn't matter who we put back there because as everyone knows, we make 1000 yards runners out of running backs that aren't even in the league two years after they leave us e.g Droughns, T.Bell, Gary, M.Anderson and so forth.

Not anymore, it was Shanny who did that for this team. That is gone now.

DBBBSBS
12-31-2008, 09:48 AM
Dude he's young and learning the postion in the NFL and doing a damn fine job. I figure you got two choices. One is go along with it because he's not going any where anytime soon, or....welll I think you know this one.

Oh yeah matt ryan and falcco have been in this league for 10 yrs.. they were invisible all this while..

Kaylore
12-31-2008, 09:50 AM
Oh yeah matt ryan and falcco have been in this league for 10 yrs.. they were invisible all this while..

:mullet1:

DBBBSBS
12-31-2008, 09:51 AM
I do not blame Cutler for this year. Our runningback situation made the pass lanes smaller and smaller as teams figured out that we couldn't run on them. Cutler will be better next year, and I hope that our RB can stay healthy.

3 game lead with 3 games to go.. and you couldn't plan for one win... goodness me... running passing or defense.. whatever, that is not the QB who shows greatness to me. When everything broke down around him peyton carried that team on his back this year and he did so from his 3rd season.. that is greatness to me

Circle Orange
12-31-2008, 09:59 AM
Is even possible to discuss Cutler around here in a completely objective and isolated way without every two teeth having sheep blarring, "bhaaa, we team suck, cutler god?"

Is that even possible?

Of course. I agree with part of your post that stats are skewed now. However, qbs still have to have skill to make all kinds of throws. This doesn't just mean 'power' throws, which are easy. The difficult throws over the shoulder, corner of the endzone are where the real qbs shine. Dropping balls right into the reciever's hands in coverage. I guarantee there aren't more than three qbs that can do this consistently. Throwing for lots of yards disguises a lot, too. Are you coming from behind most of the time?

I've said many times I feel people see what they want to see in qbs, especially if skill sets seem similar. That doesn't mean everyone is a leader, or has the instincts for the game. Not just moving, but when to move. Not just throwing, but how to throw. Kyle Boller has a cannon arm too, and is possibly more fluid than Jay running. What's that gotten him? Alex Smith of the 49ers runs like a deer, and can throw. Um, nothing happening there. Now we have Mr. Flacco, who everyone is drooling over. Similar skill set again, let's see what happens. I just get tired of everyone being anointed a superstar for showing 'flashes'. Or being 'hot' for a few games. Shanahan boasted on Plummer, if you recall. He boasted on Griese to a lesser degree. It seemed to me he felt he could make gold nuggets out of all these guys. (being a genius has advantages). Now we get saturated with Jay hype. Yes, he has talent. We know all this. Question is, does that alone make him great? No. And while everyone insists on tossing comparisons between Jay and John, I'll say this: he reminds me of John physically late in his career, after 36. But not before that. I can look at old tapes and see the difference any day of the week, and I'm just a fan. People have funny memories of things after a few years pass.

I think Jay will have a successful career, but I refuse to pour bronze over his head and name the town square after him. At this point in time, it's just silly.

bronco0608
12-31-2008, 10:32 AM
Yes. Epic fail.

http://www.brainspout.com/blog/images/mullet.jpg

"maaaynn, don't ur fellers know dat der Cutler boy is beyond being daggum critisized, yea boy. maaanyn, dat der boy ain't done nuthin' wrong in my ooopinions. you aint no americin and u is cumminist if yer blame cutler fer anything, yea boy. dem intercepzions was on dat defense, yea boy. yall boyz wish yall wuz as smart as mee."

Rigs11
12-31-2008, 11:02 AM
Cutler better step it up next year. If bowlen has the guts to fire shanny, no one is untouchable.

Paladin
12-31-2008, 11:16 AM
Is even possible to discuss Cutler around here in a completely objective and isolated way without every two teeth having sheep blarring, "bhaaa, we team suck, cutler god?"

Is that even possible?

No

bronco0608
11-14-2009, 03:07 PM
How ****ing spot on was a year ago? WOW!!

baja
11-14-2009, 03:55 PM
If you look at the statistics of the QBs since the NFL made it a point of emphasis to prevent CBs from touching/pushing/chucking WRs after 5 yards you will see a noticable trend of QBs with exploding statistics.

We have seen every individual passing record broken, with Manning getting the tds mark, Brady with passing yards (I think) and so forth.

Is it even that big of deal for a healthy QB to get 3,000 yards in a season anymore? Absolutely not.

QBs stats are inflated and skewed now.

Back in the day, it took the Troy Aikmans, John Elways, and Brett Favres a couple of seasons to adjust to the NFL. Now? You got guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco stepping right in and producing seasons that coaches would have killed for from their veteran QBs in the late 80s and early 90s.

So if you think about it, Jay Cutler would have thrown about 30 interceptions this year if the CBs were allowed to bully WRs down the field since he likes to take "chances" and fit the ball into tight spaces. Would Jay even be playing 15 years ago? Probably not, because he would have turned the ball over too much. He would have been the cannon arm kid with the two cents head. And how many potential ints did Cutler have this year had the DB simply not dropped the pass directly too him? It's staggering. Cutler threw the 2nd most ints this year. That's terrible.

To me, Cutler has been disappointing simply because of his decision making. He really makes dumb mistakes on the field ala Plummer. Four red zone ints? You know how deflating that is to a team?

Cutler is no smarter than Plummer. Because of the emphasis on the passing rules, QBs like Cutler are now "superstars" when in fact they are simply benefactors of rules that make it nearly impossible for a WR NOT TO BE OPEN.

If Culter doesn't change, Shanahan is going to have to start managing the game with him like he did with Plummer.

Wow you saw Jay clearly from the onset.

Broncos4tw
11-14-2009, 07:56 PM
Sweet.. another Cutler thread.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-14-2009, 08:36 PM
Nt

Circle Orange
11-14-2009, 10:47 PM
If you look at the statistics of the QBs since the NFL made it a point of emphasis to prevent CBs from touching/pushing/chucking WRs after 5 yards you will see a noticable trend of QBs with exploding statistics.

We have seen every individual passing record broken, with Manning getting the tds mark, Brady with passing yards (I think) and so forth.

Is it even that big of deal for a healthy QB to get 3,000 yards in a season anymore? Absolutely not.

QBs stats are inflated and skewed now.

Back in the day, it took the Troy Aikmans, John Elways, and Brett Favres a couple of seasons to adjust to the NFL. Now? You got guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco stepping right in and producing seasons that coaches would have killed for from their veteran QBs in the late 80s and early 90s.

So if you think about it, Jay Cutler would have thrown about 30 interceptions this year if the CBs were allowed to bully WRs down the field since he likes to take "chances" and fit the ball into tight spaces. Would Jay even be playing 15 years ago? Probably not, because he would have turned the ball over too much. He would have been the cannon arm kid with the two cents head. And how many potential ints did Cutler have this year had the DB simply not dropped the pass directly too him? It's staggering. Cutler threw the 2nd most ints this year. That's terrible.

To me, Cutler has been disappointing simply because of his decision making. He really makes dumb mistakes on the field ala Plummer. Four red zone ints? You know how deflating that is to a team?

Cutler is no smarter than Plummer. Because of the emphasis on the passing rules, QBs like Cutler are now "superstars" when in fact they are simply benefactors of rules that make it nearly impossible for a WR NOT TO BE OPEN.

If Culter doesn't change, Shanahan is going to have to start managing the game with him like he did with Plummer.


I think the biggest difference in the league now is 400 yard offensive games and 35 + points. At this rate, the NFL will turn into the arena league. Makes you wonder how to evaluate some of these qbs now as they look to the HOF eventually.

All I know is, some members of the class of '83 would hold the league hostage under these current rules. You can't even breathe on an offensive player anymore.

Circle Orange
11-14-2009, 10:48 PM
Sweet.. another Cutler thread.

Before we make more, there should be a poll on whether or not to make them. LOL

GeniusatWork
11-15-2009, 07:22 AM
How ****ing spot on was a year ago? WOW!!

Wow. That was good. You got a bunch of guff about it too.

lex
11-15-2009, 07:58 AM
If you look at the statistics of the QBs since the NFL made it a point of emphasis to prevent CBs from touching/pushing/chucking WRs after 5 yards you will see a noticable trend of QBs with exploding statistics.

We have seen every individual passing record broken, with Manning getting the tds mark, Brady with passing yards (I think) and so forth.

Is it even that big of deal for a healthy QB to get 3,000 yards in a season anymore? Absolutely not.

QBs stats are inflated and skewed now.

Back in the day, it took the Troy Aikmans, John Elways, and Brett Favres a couple of seasons to adjust to the NFL. Now? You got guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco stepping right in and producing seasons that coaches would have killed for from their veteran QBs in the late 80s and early 90s.

So if you think about it, Jay Cutler would have thrown about 30 interceptions this year if the CBs were allowed to bully WRs down the field since he likes to take "chances" and fit the ball into tight spaces. Would Jay even be playing 15 years ago? Probably not, because he would have turned the ball over too much. He would have been the cannon arm kid with the two cents head. And how many potential ints did Cutler have this year had the DB simply not dropped the pass directly too him? It's staggering. Cutler threw the 2nd most ints this year. That's terrible.

To me, Cutler has been disappointing simply because of his decision making. He really makes dumb mistakes on the field ala Plummer. Four red zone ints? You know how deflating that is to a team?

Cutler is no smarter than Plummer. Because of the emphasis on the passing rules, QBs like Cutler are now "superstars" when in fact they are simply benefactors of rules that make it nearly impossible for a WR NOT TO BE OPEN.

If Culter doesn't change, Shanahan is going to have to start managing the game with him like he did with Plummer.


You took an otherwise insightful post and turned it into a Cutler rant. First of all, who is to say that Cutler wouldnt have throttled back a little had he played in a different era.

But aside from the Cutler business, actually, Dan Marino still has the records for yards in a season, which is amazing given what you have pointed out. Secondly, its not just the 5 yard rule being enforced. Its also the lengths the league has gone to protect QBs. It leads to a lack of balance and its not good for the game. It also skews era comparisons, like you said. When Marino broke the record for TD passes in a season, I think it was a 33% increase (36 to 48). The fact that they have had the kind of advantages you describe and they have still barely broken that record is amazing as is the fact that his yardage record still stands.

I think the game needs to clean up on some things. They need to crack down on defenders using their helmets when making tackles. Too many times you see the helmet being the initial impact. Its not safe for the guy making the tackle or the guy being tackled. Most of these tackles dont involve a QB, yet the QBs are the only ones being protected.

bowtown
11-15-2009, 08:10 AM
How ****ing spot on was a year ago? WOW!!

Total whiff... neither Shanahan or Cutler are in Denver anymore.

Circle Orange
11-15-2009, 08:18 AM
I Blame Peyton Manning.

Offense sells tickets/jerseys, Defense wins championships.

see "Football cliches thread"

Sorry. Couldn't resist...I've heard that too many times. I think fans want to see a nice contrast between both. Too much O is cheap and boring, too much D is dull and boring.