2005 Season 2008 Season Comparison - THE REAL reason no playoffs!

[cutlerfan]

Please look at the following URL's for reference

http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=DEN

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/

Denver's 2008 Defense

Points allowed = 30th in the league (Worst in Team History, 2007 Second worst in Team History)

Yards Allowed = 29th in the league

Pass Yards allowed = 26th in the league

Rush Yards allowed = 27th in the league

Denver's 2008 Offense

Points per game = 16th in the league

Yards per game = 2nd in the league (3rd all time. First = 1996 Season, Second 1997 Season)

Passing Yards per game = 3rd in the league

Rushing Yards per game = 12th in the league

Denver's 2005 Defense (Ranked 3rd in the NFL)

Points Allowed = 3rd in the league

Yards Allowed = 18th in the league

Pass Yards allowed = 29th in the league

Rush Yards allowed = 2nd in the league


Denver's 2005 Offense

Points per game = 7th in the league

Yards per game = 5th in the league

Passing Yards per game = 18th in the league

Rushing Yards per game = 2nd on the league


Look at the difference. The answer = lack of DEFENSE

[Inkana7]

Like we didn't know this?

[cutlerfan]

Like we didn't know this?

There is a post saying Plummer three years three playoffs. This is an answer to this!

[jmz313]

The answer to the 2005 Riddle is in Houston Texas quietly assembling an amazing Offense.

[2KBack]

There is a post saying Plummer three years three playoffs. This is an answer to this!

your missing the argument then. While I don't neccesarily agree with it, the argument is that Denver has put the vast majority of it's resources since 2005 into the offense (which includes cutler). Which allowed the defense to continue to rot. If you were a fan in 2005 (which we know you weren't), you would know that the defense was nowhere near as good as the ranking would suggest, and needed talent badly.

[cutlerfan]

your missing the argument then. While I don't neccesarily agree with it, the argument is that Denver has put the vast majority of it's resources since 2005 into the offense (which includes cutler). Which allowed the defense to continue to rot. If you were a fan in 2005 (which we know you weren't), you would know that the defense was nowhere near as good as the ranking would suggest, and needed talent badly.

IF that is true. How in the hell were you 2nd in the league against scoring, 3rd in Points allowed!!

[broncocalijohn]

The Browncos helped get us to the AFCCC game. We moved them along when we got rid of Coyer. They dont seem too bad now, huh?

[cutlerfan]

Do you guys think for one second that the 2005 Defense would have let SD score 8 out of 10 times? Hell no!

[broncocalijohn]

IF that is true. How in the hell were you 2nd in the league against scoring, 3rd in Points allowed!!

i believe that is 3rd in points allowed as in rankings (good). Being 32 in points allowed would be considered bottom. Our D wasnt as good as suggested by stats but it was a ton better than what we have now. Yards allowed in passing was based on teams inability to run against us and trying to catch up to our lead. I think we were ranked pretty low in sacks in 2005. The Steelers exposed one of our problems and we panicked for the 2006 years.

[cutlerfan]

i believe that is 3rd in points allowed as in rankings (good). Being 32 in points allowed would be considered bottom. Our D wasnt as good as suggested by stats but it was a ton better than what we have now. Yards allowed in passing was based on teams inability to run against us and trying to catch up to our lead. I think we were ranked pretty low in sacks in 2005. The Steelers exposed one of our problems and we panicked for the 2006 years.

There is no way you don't get to the playoffs with a defense like 2005.

I mean 2nd in the league against the run! That is sick! <-- In a good way!

I would give my right nut for that defense now!

[no-pseudo-fan]

Difference between us then and now is.....

Defensive Team Leaders....Al Wilson and John Lynch

Creating Turnovers......Blitzing QB's into mistakes


Do you think for one second that Al would let this happen?

[Domostick]

Those run stats were misleading because in 2005 we often got a quick lead forcing other teams to stop running and start passing more. I believe we gave up around 4.6 yards per run which is below average.

[2KBack]

IF that is true. How in the hell were you 2nd in the league against scoring, 3rd in Points allowed!!

smoke and mirrors, one of the reasons you hear so many people here talking about how they miss Larry Coyer. Also, that was an amazing season turnover wise. Denver was +20 in turnovers. Part of that was a scheme that actually forced mistakes, and the other part was smarter offensive play.

Denver had a -17 turnover ratio this season (23 by one player). That's on both units.

[bronco militia]

thanks for clearing this up

[Rohirrim]

I wonder if Needapassrush will ever have to change his name on here.

[bronco militia]

I wonder if Needapassrush will ever have to change his name on here.

LOL

[sirhcyennek81]

The answer to the 2005 Riddle is in Houston Texas quietly assembling an amazing Offense.


Yes, because the offense we watched all year was so horrible...


:Broncos:

[jmz313]

Yards, and points against don't tell the story of that Team's D. The big play ability of the coyer led 2005 D was thier hook. Sum it all up with champ's Playoff endzone int of tom terrific leading to a 14pt swing.

The D was still beat up by good passing teams but they could shut down RBs.

[cutlerfan]

smoke and mirrors, one of the reasons you hear so many people here talking about how they miss Larry Coyer. Also, that was an amazing season turnover wise. Denver was +20 in turnovers. Part of that was a scheme that actually forced mistakes, and the other part was smarter offensive play.

Denver had a -17 turnover ratio this season (23 by one player). That's on both units.

You guys were also 2nd in the league in rushing!

You can try to spin it anyway you want but if the 2008 and 2007 Denver teams had that kind of defense we would be in the playoffs!!

[bronco militia]

You guys were also 2nd in the league in rushing!

You can try to spin it anyway you want but if the 2008 and 2007 Denver teams had that kind of defense we would be in the playoffs!!

in 2005, sure...but any other season and Coyers defense had trouble getting turnovers and stopping teams in the redzone

[jmz313]

Yes, because the offense we watched all year was so horrible...


:Broncos:

Was not my point. Kubes in 05 (as opposed to jake) > Jermey bates in 2008. (as opposed to Cutler)

[cutlerfan]

in 2005, sure...but any other season and Coyers defense had trouble getting turnovers and stopping teams in the redzone

Hell in 2003 and 2004 Denver was ranked 9th in Defense!

I will take that! What are we 30th!! Man that just sucks ass!

[2KBack]

You guys were also 2nd in the league in rushing!

You can try to spin it anyway you want but if the 2008 and 2007 Denver teams had that kind of defense we would be in the playoffs!!

is someone arguing that isn't the case? I've yet to see anyone do that. Even those that aren't fully in cutlers corner yet know the defense sucks. what spin are you talking about?

[bronco militia]

Hell in 2003 and 2004 Denver was ranked 9th in Defense!

I will take that! What are we 30th!! Man that just sucks ass!

maybe 9th in yards...not in points, turnovers, or redzone scoring


plus they gave up a record amount of points and yards to the colts in the playoffs both years.

there was always something lacking with coyers defense. that's why shanny let him go.


what the broncos need is a complete change of philosphy from the coaching staff to the type of players they have on defense.

[cutlerfan]

is someone arguing that isn't the case? I've yet to see anyone do that. Even those that aren't fully in cutlers corner yet know the defense sucks. what spin are you talking about?

By what you said "Smoke and Mirrors" Thats crap! You can't be that statistically good with Smoke and Mirrors.

[jmz313]

Cutlerfan,

The D sucks. We all know it. That slowick, slowit, slowdick, slowik guy everyone keeps talking about is in charge of it. Cutler was great overall, the O was great overall. Cutler did falter in key situations a few times. But, no one is blaming those cutler faults for the defacto reason we aren't in the playoffs.

[cutlerfan]

9th in yards...not in total defense or points

plus they gave up a record amount of points and yards to the colts in the playoffs both years.

what the broncos need is a complete change of philosphy from the coaching staff to the type of players they have on defense.

What we need is some defensive players with some BALLS!

Like

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/bassdb/al2.jpg

AND Sell the Farm to get this Bad Ass!

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/bassdb/haynes.gif

[jmz313]

Haynesworth would be a giant waste of cap space if slowik is coaching him. If we gotta stick with coach slo, we need qaulity LBs to clean up messes left by the DL. Draft Rey, Start WW, DJ can be traded for a 5th.

[Steve Prefontaine]

There is a post saying Plummer three years three playoffs. This is an answer to this!
Not a post, a thread.

If this was a response to that, why not post in that thread?

You created a thread about something that the majority of people already know.

[WolfpackGuy]

Lack of CB depth hurt the Broncos BADLY in those games with the Colts. Roc Alexander anyone? They carpetbombed the CB position in the following draft, and unfortunately, the worst one (Paymah) is the only one left. Make that 30th in points allowed to 20th or 15th and the 2008 Broncos have HFA.

[cutlerfan]

Not a post, a thread.

If this was a response to that, why not post in that thread?

You created a thread about something that the majority of people already know.

I posted this first before I wrote that statement. I know that sounds like a contradiction of my behalf but I thought this needed to be stated - thus the post!

If people know this then why are they making posts about Cutler not making the playoffs and Plummer did. This is a TEAM game!

[jmz313]

Lack of CB depth hurt the Broncos BADLY in those games with the Colts. Roc Alexander anyone? They carpetbombed the CB position in the following draft, and unfortunately, the worst one (Paymah) is the only one left.

I argue that peyton manning will complete passes to reggie wayne and Marvin Harrison all day against Champ, Namdi and deion sanders if he's given the 8seconds allowed by those poor pass rushes.

[jmz313]

I posted this first before I wrote that statement. I know that sounds like a contradiction of my behalf but I thought this needed to be stated - thus the post!

If people know this then why are they making posts about Cutler not making the playoffs and Plummer did. This is a TEAM game!

Cause they are upset at the 08' collapse.

[cutlerfan]

Cause they are upset at the 08' collapse.

Yeah Jay made some mistakes so did Plummer, but when we put up 500 + yards to the Bills. We should have won.

Example, Vernon Fox missed three TD tackles in the SD game!

Get mad at his ass!

[WolfpackGuy]

Look at it this way. The Broncos went from 20th to 12th in the draft by simply not winning. What good would a one and done playoff appearance have done?

[jmz313]

Yeah Jay made some mistakes so did Plummer, but when we put up 500 + yards to the Bills. We should have won.

Example, Vernon Fox missed three TD tackles in the SD game!

Get mad at his ass!

Since your a cutler guy I think you need to not worry about people venting. He's gonna be blamed for lots in the future as well as get his praise.

I could bash cutler for an hour based on what I see on sunday through my TV. BUt, I don't really know the whole deal, I'm not a broncos coach, or a NFL personel guy. In the end I know that cutler was not the sole reason this team didn't win the AFC west.

I could bash damn near everyone on the team. Except Hillis and Woodyard.

[cutlerfan]

Look at it this way. The Broncos went from 20th to 12th in the draft by simply not winning. What good would a one and done playoff appearance have done?

It would have ended dumb ass Plummer threads!

[cutlerfan]

Since your a cutler guy I think you need to not worry about people venting. He's gonna be blamed for lots in the future as well as get his praise.

I could bash cutler for an hour based on what I see on sunday through my TV. BUt, I don't really know the whole deal, I'm not a broncos coach, or a NFL personel guy. In the end I know that cutler was not the sole reason this team didn't win the AFC west.

I could bash damn near everyone on the team. Except Hillis and Woodyard.

Your right. I get pissed because people are stupid in general. I also get pissed because Jay is a friend of mine and I have know him since he was a freshman here at Vandy.

I understand the venting but damn some people are just talking out their ass and have no f'n clue what is REALLY going on.

[2KBack]

I posted this first before I wrote that statement. I know that sounds like a contradiction of my behalf but I thought this needed to be stated - thus the post!

If people know this then why are they making posts about Cutler not making the playoffs and Plummer did. This is a TEAM game!

see, since you weren't around for the Plummer years you aren't seeing what the complaint really is. No one here is saying that Cutler is worse than Plummer, they are saying it was a waste to go after Cutler in the first place. you stated it yourself: The difference between 2005 and 2008 is the defense. Yet after 2005 Shanhan started to blow up the offense instead focusing on an increasing troubling defense. Now here we are again, a solid offense (with major turnover problems) with a sub-par defense. Anyone arguing the plummer angle is simply stating that Denver would probably be better off right now if built the defense since 2005 instead of drafting cutler and revamping the offense for him. It's a moot point, but people are angry about it.

[cutlerfan]

see, since you weren't around for the Plummer years you aren't seeing what the complaint really is. No one here is saying that Cutler is worse than Plummer, they are saying it was a waste to go after Cutler in the first place. you stated it yourself: The difference between 2005 and 2008 is the defense. Yet after 2005 Shanhan started to blow up the offense instead focusing on an increasing troubling defense. Now here we are again, a solid offense (with major turnover problems) with a sub-par defense. Anyone arguing the plummer angle is simply stating that Denver would probably be better off right now if built the defense since 2005 instead of drafting cutler and revamping the offense for him. It's a moot point, but people are angry about it.

Why would you draft defense when you were ranked 3rd in the league the year prior? You needed firepower and Plummer folded like a cheap suit in the playoffs.


If I remember correctly. You guys had a hard on for Maroney.

That was going to be your pick if it was not Cutler.

[2KBack]

Why would you draft defense when you were ranked 3rd in the league the year prior? You needed firepower and Plummer folded like a cheap suit in the playoffs.


If I remember correctly. You guys had a hard on for Maroney.

That was going to be your pick if it was not Cutler.

Why would we draft offense when we were second in the league in rushing and our QB made the pro-bowl

Also, team game right? The defense gave up an 80% 3rd down conversion rate in the AFCCG and 21 points in just the second quarter. Plummker is the convienent excuse in those playoff games.

Look, you like Cutler, that is fine. Some of us are fans of the whole team, and we have disagreed with decisions that go back before your boy was drafted. I disagreed with the drafting of Cutler, and I disagree with with drafting any running back before the 3rd round. I don't dislike cutler, though I'm not sold on him yet either. I do believe that Denver is in this situation because shanahan made the wrong decision in decieding to overhaul the offense instead of draft some quality defenders.

[cutlerfan]

Why would we draft offense when we were second in the league in rushing and our QB made the pro-bowl

Also, team game right? The defense gave up an 80% 3rd down conversion rate in the AFCCG and 21 points in just the second quarter. Plummker is the convienent excuse in those playoff games.

Look, you like Cutler, that is fine. Some of us are fans of the whole team, and we have disagreed with decisions that go back before your boy was drafted. I disagreed with the drafting of Cutler, and I disagree with with drafting any running back before the 3rd round. I don't dislike cutler, though I'm not sold on him yet either. I do believe that Denver is in this situation because shanahan made the wrong decision in decieding to overhaul the offense instead of draft some quality defenders.

Jake was 18/30 223 Yards 1TD 2INT

I also heard that Shanny could not run his whole Offense with Plummer and with Cutler he can. Put Cutler with a Defense of the 2005 caliber and we would not be having this discussion. We would be preparing for the playoffs.

We can agree to disagree, cool?- I have to go.

[WolfpackGuy]

Anybody got the age comparison between 2005 and 2008? That 2005 team was O-L-D.

[Rigs11]

based on your links you also have to look at the td to int ratio of plummer in 05 and cutler this year.

[2KBack]

Jake was 18/30 223 Yards 1TD 2INT

I also heard that Shanny could not run his whole Offense with Plummer and with Cutler he can. Put Cutler with a Defense of the 2005 caliber and we would not be having this discussion. We would be preparing for the playoffs.

We can agree to disagree, cool?- I have to go.

I agree we would be preparing for the playoffs, but probably preparing to get destroyed. the 2005 D wasn't good enough either.

By the logic you are using with Plummer in that playoff game against the #1 defense in the league, then Cutler folded before the playoffs even started.

Cutler was 33-49 316 1 td 2 ints against the 25th ranked defense

Yes, we'll always probably disagree. Just so you know I'm not just tying fight with you. It's not that i would rather have Plummer than Cutler, it's that I'd rather have a defense than Cutler.

[no-pseudo-fan]

2005 Defense was not great by any means, but if you got it a lead it would crush you. 2008 D would just give it back. Plus little to no injuries in 05.

[Blueflame]

I posted this first before I wrote that statement. I know that sounds like a contradiction of my behalf but I thought this needed to be stated - thus the post!

If people know this then why are they making posts about Cutler not making the playoffs and Plummer did. This is a TEAM game!

It's because there are some people on this forum who thought Plummer was "above average" and therefore, were against even drafting Cutler. Unless and until Cutler leads the team to a championship, some will still want to question and second-guess the decision to bench Plummer in '06...

While we may not all agree on the reasons, most of us will acknowledge that the post-Coyer Broncos defenses are an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions... a league-wide laughingstock that probably couldn't stop an 80-year-old spinster from gaining 5 yards a carry. And special teams isn't much better; we're consistently losing the field position battle.