Kizla: Broncos are in denial

[Popps]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11327824

SAN DIEGO — Here was the picture of utter frustration: Playoff dreams shattered at his feet, Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall shouted "Give me the ball" at an onlooker in the end zone after tripping over the goal line and helplessly watching a fourth-down pass fall incomplete.
Marshall hurled the offending football to the ground in anger.
Just like the Broncos threw away this NFL season.
"That's just how our season went: It was up and down," Marshall said.
But know what's far worse?
The Broncos are in denial.
This is a franchise in crisis.
Will Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and coach Mike Shanahan be the last people in Denver to realize the magnitude of the problem?
For too long now, loyal, faithful Broncomaniacs have been asked to build a new stadium, accept quarterback Jake Plummer or defensive coordinator Jim Bates as a convenient scapegoat and believe that Denver is just a single player or only one year away from again being a legitimate Super Bowl contender.
It is impossible to maintain that delusion any longer.
Move over, Shamu.
With a playoff berth on the line, Shanahan, linebacker D.J. Williams and a bunch of accidental tourists from Denver went in the tank, losing 52-21 to San Diego.
"I think everybody got frustrated," Shanahan said.
This is a Denver team in denial, a bunch of young players whose lone meaningful connection to John Elway and the Broncos who won the franchise's first NFL championship on this same field in San Diego more than 10 years ago is the horse on their helmets.
Denver's status as an elite NFL team is long gone, a reputation trampled in a three-year playoff drought, the franchise's longest since 1980-82.
The Broncos have not surrendered so many points in a single season since 1963, before the Super Bowl was born and Shanahan was an 11-year-old in grade school who could never have dreamed his life would come to this, explaining how Denver could blow a three-game lead in

(Click image to enlarge)
the AFC West with three games to play.
"I don't care about history," said Broncos defensive end Ebenezer Ekuban, whose heart is heavy because he must explain to his family how the season went so wrong in December.
I asked Shanahan if his 8-8 team of 2008 was a significantly better than the 7-9 Denver team of 2007.
"It's not even close," insisted Shan- ahan, who believes if he can get a healthy tailback that Denver not only has a championship-caliber offense but an offense that can match the heyday of Terrell Davis and Elway.
There is no doubting the promise of quarterback Jay Cutler, offensive tackle Ryan Clady and Marshall. But with defensive woes so extensive that no single draft can fix them, the Broncos do not appear any closer to being legitimate championship contenders now than when they got blown out in the AFC title game three seasons ago and then blew up the roster.
And know what's scary? Cornerback Champ Bailey turns 31 before next season begins. How much more time does he have to wait until next year?
Before the season, Shanahan guaranteed these Broncos would be a playoff team.
"We had the opportunity to get it done, and we didn't get it done," Shanahan said.
But when you're a football legend on merit, does that give you a lifetime pass against failure?
Shanahan has earned his Super Bowl rings and is building a castle fit for an emperor who has no clothes.
Bowlen won a home stadium and rakes in the cash from a TV deal that
SHARE YOUR ANALYSIS

Post sports columnist Mark Kiszla fields your feedback. Look for it in Kickin' It With Kiz every Saturday.

makes him fat and happy.
Both Bowlen and Shanahan have made wonderful sports memories and names for themselves in a game they obviously love.
But we crave a Broncos team that again makes Denver the center of the NFL universe.
Do Shanahan and Bowlen still have the hunger?

[wolf754life]

UNBELIEVABLE, EXACTLY ON POINT

preach brother preach

hear that fanboys! we are getting louder, we won't go away, we will stand and deliver, we will demand ACCOUNTABILITY!!!

[CBF1]

Same thing we have been hearing for 2 years now

[WABronco]

Ya pretty sure Kiszla has been a sensationalizing little bitch for a while now...didn't start tonight.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The devil's wearing a parka...I agree with Kiszla. Everything rises and falls on leadership.

Nuff said.

[Killericon]

"I don't care about history," said Broncos defensive end Ebenezer Ekuban, whose heart is heavy because he must explain to his family how the season went so wrong in December.

What a sensationalist load of ****. It conjurs images of him going home to a starving family..."Daddy, will we get to eat?" "No, son, we gave up 52 points to the Chargers. No dinner tonight."

We went 8-8. Give me a ****ing break.

[jmz313]

A healthy back? what would shanny do with that. give him 10 carries a game?

Kilza is dead on.

[Dukes]

The scary part is Shanny thinks he'll turn it around next season with the same coaches and a few tweaks in the lineup. Shanny is in denial. We've been hearing this same BS from him for years.

[Rohirrim]

Our guys competed last night. We're only a few pieces away from contention. We're headed in the right direction.

[EmpireOrange]

51 - 21 is an absolute low in Denver sports. Kiszla paints a picture of it not getting better anytime soon. The scary things are the parts on Bowlen. The only way to change things is become more vocal. A couple years a Packers fan bought a billboard spot and called out Mike Sherman. It was covered nationally and thats all people talked about with Sherman - how he was on thin ice. The next season he was gone. Nobody nationally are taking about Shanny needing to go. Its not even in the national thought. I say Broncos fans start to make thier distain more noticable. If Bowlen is concerned with the bottom line maybe its time show him how Shanahan football threatens that bottom line. Maybe we should stop going to the games next year. Start wearing paperbags. Boo Shanny at every turn and make it uncomfortable for this team next year.

[go_broncos]

Shanny = Al Davis

[broncofan7]

Anyone know how much a billboard advertisement would cost for say 1 week? one month?

[bronco militia]

This is a franchise in crisis.

not really

but that's kizla being kizla again

[spdirty]

Id be in favor of getting rid of Shanny right now if we could get Jeff Fisher in here.

[bloodsunday]

Come on. This is the stuff of bandwagon fans.

A few things I know:
1) Shanahan ain't stupid. He feels the heat.
2) He is one of the greatest competitors around -- nobody hates losing more than he does.
3) He knows (and admitted) the D needs a lot of work in the offseason.
4) He seems to have learned that continuity is the way to build a team. Get a good scheme and DRAFT talent for that scheme. But this takes time.

[Traveler]

Come on. This is the stuff of bandwagon fans.

A few things I know:
1) Shanahan ain't stupid. He feels the heat.
2) He is one of the greatest competitors around -- nobody hates losing more than he does.
3) He knows (and admitted) the D needs a lot of work in the offseason.
4) He seems to have learned that continuity is the way to build a team. Get a good scheme and DRAFT talent for that scheme. But this takes time.

What is our scheme?

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

How much to get a billboard?

Orangemane needs to chip in and have one put up around Denver.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What the franchise is in denial about is the need to SIGN AND DRAFT REAL DEFENSIVE TALENT.

[EmpireOrange]

Anyone know how much a billboard advertisement would cost for say 1 week? one month?

I don't know but I would be willing to pitch in

[TonyR]

1 playoff win in 10 years
4 playoff appearances in 10 years
1 division title in 10 years

You're delusional if you think it's going to magically get better next year. Wake the **** up.

[Broncojef]

Count me in as well I'm tired of the same old 8-8, we're so close team.

[Rabb]

all I know is that the guys in my office that are not from here and root for other teams are treating me like someone died, the subtle "sorry man" and pat on the back

someone did die, the ****ing franchise...today sucks

[Rohirrim]

Come on. This is the stuff of bandwagon fans.

A few things I know:
1) Shanahan ain't stupid. He feels the heat.
2) He is one of the greatest competitors around -- nobody hates losing more than he does.
3) He knows (and admitted) the D needs a lot of work in the offseason.
4) He seems to have learned that continuity is the way to build a team. Get a good scheme and DRAFT talent for that scheme. But this takes time.

You're right. It does take time. Look at Miami.

[TonyR]

You're right. It does take time. Look at Miami.

Yep, Miami and Atlanta should be the blueprints!

[Rock Chalk]

The problem since Jake Plummer was our QB has been defense, period.

Our defense in our 13-3 season was a paper tiger, when it faced real offenses and real teams, it struggled mightily.

Our defense since then is just paper, there is no tiger to it. Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem. And as long as Shanahan is our HC there never will be. He is an offensive minded guy and has NEVER shown true commitment to the defense. This is not a one year deal, this is consistently looking at and evaluating and trying to improve just like he does on offense.

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.

[Rigs11]

gee our defense is to blame? Are you a detective? last time I checked shanny was the head coach, responsible for offense,defense, and special teams.biggest choke job in 40 years and this team is not in disarray?

[epicSocialism4tw]

The problem since Jake Plummer was our QB has been defense, period.

Our defense in our 13-3 season was a paper tiger, when it faced real offenses and real teams, it struggled mightily.

Our defense since then is just paper, there is no tiger to it. Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem. And as long as Shanahan is our HC there never will be. He is an offensive minded guy and has NEVER shown true commitment to the defense. This is not a one year deal, this is consistently looking at and evaluating and trying to improve just like he does on offense.

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.

If nothing else, this humbling defeat at the hands of the squawky Chargers might wake up our bunch of young knuckleheads to the realization that they might have to play for something more than sportscenter highlights.

Not only that, but even the least-informed fan can see that our defense is a HUGE problem...specifically the line, the backers, and the safeties.

[bronco militia]

The problem since Jake Plummer was our QB has been defense, period.

Our defense in our 13-3 season was a paper tiger, when it faced real offenses and real teams, it struggled mightily.

Our defense since then is just paper, there is no tiger to it. Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem. And as long as Shanahan is our HC there never will be. He is an offensive minded guy and has NEVER shown true commitment to the defense. This is not a one year deal, this is consistently looking at and evaluating and trying to improve just like he does on offense.

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.

yes and no...i agree that this defense has been the culprit even with Jake Plummer, but I don't agree that Shanny has not been commited to fixing this defense. You may not agree with the way he's gone about it, but trying new coaches and drafting players show's there's a commitment to get better....did you suddenly forget the 5 DC's and the the 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007 1st day draft picks?

[Rohirrim]

And yet, I think the Broncos LBs are the best at jumping up and putting on a great dance show after they tackle the RB 8 yards down the field. They have some great victory dances. You can't coach that. ;D

[NFLBRONCO]

The problem since Jake Plummer was our QB has been defense, period.

Our defense in our 13-3 season was a paper tiger, when it faced real offenses and real teams, it struggled mightily.

Our defense since then is just paper, there is no tiger to it. Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem. And as long as Shanahan is our HC there never will be. He is an offensive minded guy and has NEVER shown true commitment to the defense. This is not a one year deal, this is consistently looking at and evaluating and trying to improve just like he does on offense.

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.

Good post I think it will come down to how we draft D. I think us adding Peppers or Haynesworth is a pipe dream. I'm not sure Bowlen will want to pay that much for A+ players. I think FA period will tell us how serious we are to truly wanting to build our D. If we hit often injured or past their prime types then 10 more yrs of nothing.

[Ace7]

I think us adding Peppers or Haynesworth is a pipe dream. I'm not sure Bowlen will want to pay that much for A+ players.

Bowlen doesn't want to, and he doesn't need to. As long as the stadium is full, he's under no pressure to do so.

[Rock Chalk]

yes and no...i agree that this defense has been the culprit even with Jake Plummer, but I don't agree that Shanny has not been commited to fixing this defense. You may not agree with the way he's gone about it, but trying new coaches and drafting players show's there's a commitment to get better....did you suddenly forget the 5 DC's and the the 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007 1st day draft picks?

Its not about changing DCs and 1st day draft picks.

Its about evaluation. Shanny is a god at evaluating offensive talent (mostly). But there is not a single person in our organization who can evaluate defensive talent out of college or even from the pros except for obvious hits like Champ Bailey which honestly, even the dumbest scout could have said "hey lets get that guy, he is good".

DJ is supposedly the best player we have got on defense from the draft and outside of SoCal and a few others in denial, no one believes that guy is anything more than an average to slightly above average LB.

Our FA signings on the DL have been horrendous to down right atrocious and the same goes for our drafts.

We need a defensive talent evaluator and defensive coaches at the positional level that know how to get that talent to prosper. Our DL coach has got to be the worst in the league, period. LB coach? Well I miss Coyer as our LB coach lets say that.

DBs coach is even underperforming, and Slowik is in charge of it all. However it all starts at the evaluation level and we have sucked for YEARS at it.

[TonyR]

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.

That's the part people need to grasp. Unless things go PERFECTLY this offseason we won't see enough defensive improvement to improve enough this offseason. All these people with there "we just need 2 or 3 players" nonsense make me crazy. We'll be fortunate to get 2 or 3 instant impact defenders, and even if we do it might not be enough.

[Gort]

What is our scheme?

apparently, hold our opponents to FGs.

[bronco militia]

Its not about changing DCs and 1st day draft picks.

Its about evaluation. Shanny is a god at evaluating offensive talent (mostly). But there is not a single person in our organization who can evaluate defensive talent out of college or even from the pros except for obvious hits like Champ Bailey which honestly, even the dumbest scout could have said "hey lets get that guy, he is good".

DJ is supposedly the best player we have got on defense from the draft and outside of SoCal and a few others in denial, no one believes that guy is anything more than an average to slightly above average LB.

Our FA signings on the DL have been horrendous to down right atrocious and the same goes for our drafts.

We need a defensive talent evaluator and defensive coaches at the positional level that know how to get that talent to prosper. Our DL coach has got to be the worst in the league, period. LB coach? Well I miss Coyer as our LB coach lets say that.

DBs coach is even underperforming, and Slowik is in charge of it all. However it all starts at the evaluation level and we have sucked for YEARS at it.

Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem


this is the part I don't agree with from your other post.

[TonyR]

Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem


this is the part I don't agree with from your other post.

What don't you agree with? Even if there has been a commitment it has gotten worse. So it's not good either way you look at it.

[baja]

What a sensationalist load of ****. It conjurs images of him going home to a starving family..."Daddy, will we get to eat?" "No, son, we gave up 52 points to the Chargers. No dinner tonight."

<b>We went 8-8. Give me a ****ing break.

What the fuuck does that mean.

We could not even give our opponents a challenge for the month of December.

[baja]

The San Diego players were laughing at us on Defense.

[bronco militia]

The San Diego players were laughing at us on Defense.

so were the chiefs, jags, dolphins, raiders, pats, titans and bills to name a few

[TonyR]

What the fuuck does that mean.

We could not even give our opponents a challenge for the month of December.

Apparently some people are content with 8-8 and epic 3 game collapses to close out the season. Hopefully Pat Bowlen isn't.

[Ace7]

Apparently some people are content with 8-8 and epic 3 game collapses to close out the season. Hopefully Pat Bowlen isn't.

A lot of people are content with that. The stadium is full every game, and there's a waiting list. Bowlen is content with same.

The San Diego players were laughing at us on Defense.

They were laughing at our QB too.

[bronco militia]

What don't you agree with? Even if there has been a commitment it has gotten worse. So it's not good either way you look at it.

rock chalk and a lot of others seem to think shanny hasn't been interested in fixing the problem on defense over the years.

you may not agree with the way hes' gone about it, but please don't try to tell me he doesn't care

[TonyR]

...you may not agree with the way hes' gone about it, but please don't try to tell me he doesn't care

I agree with you that he cares. But I don't think he knows how to fix the problem, and nothing he's done over the last several years gives me a shred of confidence that he's going to get it done.

[ColoradoDarin]

I don't get some people. Anyone here think that if we had a healthy Pittman or Hillis for the entire year that we wouldn't have made the playoffs? Even with this cf of a defense? We have a championship offense built already. We went from one of the oldest offenses to one of the youngest in a few years. We need to do the same on defense and we will, but overhauling the entire roster both O and D takes more than one season.

[oubronco]

The San Diego players were laughing at us on Defense.

the whole fuggin league is laughing!! man they suck

[Mediator12]

What the fuuck does that mean.

We could not even give our opponents a challenge for the month of December.

Hey baja, he was talking about the picture kizla was conjuring of Ekuban and how troubled he was that he did not care about history, not that the defense was good. Ekuban, as usual, was sticking his big ugly foot in his mouth and talking about his emotions instead of having a real answer.

[Ace7]

We went from one of the oldest offenses to one of the youngest in a few years. We need to do the same on defense and we will, but overhauling the entire roster both O and D takes more than one season.

It didn't take Miami that long...and they don't have a 'franchise' QB. Go figure...

[TonyR]

...We need to do the same on defense and we will, but overhauling the entire roster both O and D takes more than one season.

Tell that to Miami and Atlanta. They did it.

And what gives you any confidence these guys know how to fix the defense? Our two big $ moves over the last 12 months on defense were Boss Bailey and D.J. Williams. Along with apparently retaining Slowik we're off to a great start already.

[Mediator12]

rock chalk and a lot of others seem to think shanny hasn't been interested in fixing the problem on defense over the years.

you may not agree with the way hes' gone about it, but please don't try to tell me he doesn't care

I think you have care and effective mixed up. Sure Shanahan wants a solid defense, but he wants no part of really making it effective and doing what he has done with the offense. The guy changes schemes and Coordinators every FREAKING YEAR. He will not commit to having a defense that rivals his offense and the one year it was better he fired Coyer instead of himself. What the hell does that tell you?

[Taco John]

You're right. It does take time. Look at Miami.

7 years it took them.

[epicSocialism4tw]

yes and no...i agree that this defense has been the culprit even with Jake Plummer, but I don't agree that Shanny has not been commited to fixing this defense. You may not agree with the way he's gone about it, but trying new coaches and drafting players show's there's a commitment to get better....did you suddenly forget the 5 DC's and the the 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007 1st day draft picks?

Shanny and General Management have routinely passed on acquiring real top-flight talent that could have began the building proceess and infused both veteran leadership and disruptive force at the line of scrimmage.

That is what is needed for this team to become competitive.

[Taco John]

Tell that to Miami and Atlanta. They did it.

And what gives you any confidence these guys know how to fix the defense? Our two big $ moves over the last 12 months on defense were Boss Bailey and D.J. Williams. Along with apparently retaining Slowik we're off to a great start already.

Atlanta - 4 years it took them.

[bronco militia]

I think you have care and effective mixed up. Sure Shanahan wants a solid defense, but he wants no part of really making it effective and doing what he has done with the offense. The guy changes schemes and Coordinators every FREAKING YEAR. He will not commit to having a defense that rivals his offense and the one year it was better he fired Coyer instead of himself. What the hell does that tell you?


I'm pretty sure your comments on the subject are a conflick of interest

and this post here is void of any sanity.

holy crap

[Beantown Bronco]

As bad as the defense is, for people to say that the offense is "all set" and doesn't need to be addressed at all in the offseason, I'd say you are mistaken. For all the press they got, they were only ranked 16th in the league in scoring offense (23 pts per game). Whoopie.

In their 8 losses, they managed the following point totals:

7, 10, 10, 17, 17, 19, 21 and 23 pts

In their win against TB, they only scored 16.

That's a 9 game average of 15 pts. That's not good enough, even WITH a competent defense.

[lex]

I think most know that Im at the head of the line when it comes to wanting Slowik gone, and Im also just as enfuriated as everyone else at the announcement that theyre keeping him. But has anyone considered that the Broncos being where theyre at might go back to Shanahans stubbornness in not seeing Sundquist for what he was? So now its Slowik.

[Mediator12]

7 years it took them.

Wrong Taco. They may have struggled for those 7 years, but it only took one overhaul to go from 1-15 to 11-5 and AFCE Champs.

It took one year of Bill Parcells cleaning house and reinventing the whole organization from the top down. Including changing 40 plus players on the roster and letting 2 of the most popular and talented players on the defense go in Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas because they did not fit what they wanted to do. It took an organized, complete change from the top down.

[baja]

I don't get some people. Anyone here think that if we had a healthy Pittman or Hillis for the entire year that we wouldn't have made the playoffs? Even with this cf of a defense? We have a championship offense built already. We went from one of the oldest offenses to one of the youngest in a few years. We need to do the same on defense and we will, but overhauling the entire roster both O and D takes more than one season.

Even if we won the SB there is still no excuse for the defense that Shanahan put on the field this year. It was an insult to Bronco fans .

[colonelbeef]

I don't get some people. Anyone here think that if we had a healthy Pittman or Hillis for the entire year that we wouldn't have made the playoffs? Even with this cf of a defense? We have a championship offense built already. We went from one of the oldest offenses to one of the youngest in a few years. We need to do the same on defense and we will, but overhauling the entire roster both O and D takes more than one season.

QFT.

The offense is in place. You people act like losing 7 rb's to the IR is normal. This was an injury freakshow this year.

You don't flip over the entire roster in 1 year. This offseason will be all defense, and there will be marked improvement next year. Another year for Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler, Royal, healthy Hillis, the Ryans, Torain's development.

Now we see what Bowlen is willing to spend. This team needs a monster MLB.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Wrong Taco. They may have struggled for those 7 years, but it only took one overhaul to go from 1-15 to 11-5 and AFCE Champs.

It took one year of Bill Parcells cleaning house and reinventing the whole organization from the top down. Including changing 40 plus players on the roster and letting 2 of the most popular and talented players on the defense go in Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas because they did not fit what they wanted to do. It took an organized, complete change from the top down.

Zoinks!

[TonyR]

For all the press they got, they were only ranked 16th in the league in scoring offense (23 pts per game)... That's not good enough, even WITH a competent defense.

I am so happy to see that more and more people are starting to look behind the curtain. If only Pat Bowlen will do the same...

[Mediator12]

I'm pretty sure your comments on the subject are a conflick of interest

and this post here is void of any sanity.

holy crap

Interesting, except you failed to actually consider the premise because you dismissed it out of hand. That my friend is worse than insanity, its actually your own conflict of interest.

Let me know what part of what I said was not true.....

[TonyR]

Wrong Taco. They may have struggled for those 7 years, but it only took one overhaul to go from 1-15 to 11-5 and AFCE Champs.

It took one year of Bill Parcells cleaning house and reinventing the whole organization from the top down. Including changing 40 plus players on the roster and letting 2 of the most popular and talented players on the defense go in Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas because they did not fit what they wanted to do. It took an organized, complete change from the top down.

Great post. What Parcells did is nothing short of amazing.

[bronco militia]

Interesting, except you failed to actually consider the premise because you dismissed it out of hand. That my friend is worse than insanity, its actually your own conflict of interest.

Let me know what part of what I said was not true.....

I bolded and underlined it for you,,,this notion that he can't have a part of his team better than the other part is insane

[Mediator12]

I bolded and underlined it for you,,,this notion that he can't have a part of his team better than the other part is insane

OK, check your Pm's.

[Paladin]

Drama Queens, Unite!! Right here. OM. Dramas delight.....

Kizla has been a drama queen for the past several years. He makes a living rubbing two sticks together to create heat and then he leads the dramatics. Man, this is the pits.

Think about the fact that the Oline was vastly improved this year. Cutler is in his third season and had a pro bowl year. Marshall did okay, but should improve with maturity. Royal was a real find, and you gotta love the Ts for the future years. The RBs were just murdered by the half dozen by groins, hammys and knees. What a clusterf**k that was.

The D sucks. Ain't no getting around that. Shanahan does not know D. And he can't seem to find a DC who does, either. My hope is that Goodman does have a good feel for drafting D talent. But he made some efforts: Koutouvides, Bailey, the "Ss" and Robinson and Slowick. None of those moves paid off. Add Moss and Crowder to the list of failures, and the D is cooked like crack (however that is done).

Forget going for the S or the LB of your dreams. The Broncos need DTs, and DEs. The rest will be better with an improved Dline. I would draft nothing but Dline this year. Maybe a S or MLB in there, but Dline as priority. Period. I want to see a 6'7" 330 pound mountain playing DE for the Broncos next year.

Get rid of Bly and stop the darn 10 yard cushion crap.

Kizla is just doing his thing which is to sell Newspapers and get people to notice his Prize Winning dramatics.

Jocularity.

[no-pseudo-fan]

QFT.

The offense is in place. You people act like losing 7 rb's to the IR is normal. This was an injury freakshow this year.

You don't flip over the entire roster in 1 year. This offseason will be all defense, and there will be marked improvement next year. Another year for Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler, Royal, healthy Hillis, the Ryans, Torain's development.

Now we see what Bowlen is willing to spend. This team needs a monster MLB.

:sunshine:
A monster MLB and a scary DT to allow the monster MLB to crack skulls.

[Rohirrim]

Wrong Taco. They may have struggled for those 7 years, but it only took one overhaul to go from 1-15 to 11-5 and AFCE Champs.

It took one year of Bill Parcells cleaning house and reinventing the whole organization from the top down. Including changing 40 plus players on the roster and letting 2 of the most popular and talented players on the defense go in Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas because they did not fit what they wanted to do. It took an organized, complete change from the top down.


Bingo! :thumbs:

[gunns]

The problem since Jake Plummer was our QB has been defense, period.

Our defense in our 13-3 season was a paper tiger, when it faced real offenses and real teams, it struggled mightily.

Our defense since then is just paper, there is no tiger to it. Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem. And as long as Shanahan is our HC there never will be. He is an offensive minded guy and has NEVER shown true commitment to the defense. This is not a one year deal, this is consistently looking at and evaluating and trying to improve just like he does on offense.

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.

Exactly!

Look at the top two teams in the AFC, both have average offenses and great defenses. I hand props to Shanahan for rebuilding the offense, but having a juggernaut offense was something needed back in the 80's and 90's. Now you need a great D. If we had a juggernaut D and the offense we have we would dominate (if we got an offensive coach that knew how to handle the strengths of this offense, ducks as Alec throws something at me).

While the drafts Shanahan has had for the last few years have been very good they have been focused on the O and I'm disappointed that Shanahan hasn't entered the 2000's. If there isn't a housecleaning of the coaches first, primarily D and ST, then I am calling for Shanahan's head also. Most disappointing is Bowlen who has allowed this to go on for 10 years. Get a true GM.

[Play2win]

Atlanta - 4 years it took them.

Atlanta had a real good base... and Roddy White is on hell of a wide receiver... Its just that Vick was such a monumental **** up that he screwed every thing up for that franchise... And his talents had no affinity with the talent that was around him... can you imagine if they took drew brees instead of Vick in that draft...

[minibronco]

Anyone know how much a billboard advertisement would cost for say 1 week? one month?

HAHAHA :thumbsup: :spit:

[bloodsunday]

What is our scheme?

Hopefully he and Slowik are figuring that out.

[bloodsunday]

You're right. It does take time. Look at Miami.

You could have said that about the Saints a few years ago. Or the Cowboys after year 1 under Wade. Or the Browns last year.

Miami had a great season no doubt - but I bet you they won't sustain it. I doubt they make 8 - 8 next year. Why do you think Parcells is already thinking of leaving?! He set the bar too high for himself. Expectations are brutal.

[TonyR]

Kizla is just doing his thing which is to sell Newspapers and get people to notice his Prize Winning dramatics.


Of course he is, that's his job. But I think in this case he's far more right than wrong.

[Lomax]

Wrong Taco. They may have struggled for those 7 years, but it only took one overhaul to go from 1-15 to 11-5 and AFCE Champs.

It took one year of Bill Parcells cleaning house and reinventing the whole organization from the top down. Including changing 40 plus players on the roster and letting 2 of the most popular and talented players on the defense go in Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas because they did not fit what they wanted to do. It took an organized, complete change from the top down.
It was one of the biggest one season turnarounds in the history of the NFL if not the biggest. Just saying, let's keep expectations in check.

Every year it seems, a team does something substantial that breaks the mold. And every year, fans point at that event as some sort of standard or measure for success for this team.

The Miami turnaround was an exception to the rule. And it still remains to be seen as to whether they are really much better off in the longrun or if they will go back to being a mediocre, non-playoff contending team.

[NFLBRONCO]

With a solid org like Denver it should never take 10+ years to rebuild a D or a team.

[Lomax]

I don't think it has. We're 3 years removed from the AFCCG. I believe the rebuild started when we drafted Cutler.

[Popps]

I don't think it has. We're 3 years removed from the AFCCG. I believe the rebuild started when we drafted Cutler.

Well, it's been a horrible failure, if that's the case.

The defense has gotten steadily worse every year... now to the point where we almost literally could blow the whole thing up and start over.

Again, this isn't a "rebuild," it's called a failure. Big difference. Trying to explain away failure with the "rebuild" excuse works when you show progress.
Our biggest problem was our defense. It's gotten steadily worse. We have a better QB and a couple good receivers. But, no one ever doubted Shanahan's ability to put together an offense.

So, again... if you want to call it a "rebuild," call it a failed rebuild. We're at square one, or square zero.. defensively. We went from the AFCCG to the 19th best team in the league over three years, and prospects look no better for this defense/special teams next year without a massive overhaul.

[dsmoot]

And yet, I think the Broncos LBs are the best at jumping up and putting on a great dance show after they tackle the RB 8 yards down the field. They have some great victory dances. You can't coach that. ;D

The Denver LB core was the most inconsistent group on the team, whereas the safeties were consistently bad. This team needs a kangaroo court where anyone who celebrates on any down other than 3rd down is fined.

[TonyR]

Just saying, let's keep expectations in check.

Every year it seems, a team does something substantial that breaks the mold. And every year, fans point at that event as some sort of standard or measure for success for this team.


Well, Miami made the playoffs THIS season, something we haven't done for 3 consecutive years now. Sorry, but that's below my expectations and should also be below those of Pat Bowlen and Mike Shanahan.

1 playoff win and 1 division championship in 10 years is also below my expectations.

Just curious, what are your standards that you think this is okay?

[Orange-N-Bluesince72]

Understand its not personal, Shanahan has ran his course here. Clean house, hire a real GM, and a hard nose defensive minded coach that'll keep the players in line or show them the door.

[Ace7]

I believe the rebuild started when we drafted Cutler.

Really? The 'franchise QB' thing? How many 'franchise QB's' not named Manning are in the playoffs right now?

Ah, but somehow it still gives us a warm and fuzzy that we're doing it the 'right way' with the genius.

Well, Miami made the playoffs THIS season, something we haven't done for 3 consecutive years now. Sorry, but that's below my expectations and should also be below those of Pat Bowlen and Mike Shanahan.

1 playoff win and 1 division championship in 10 years is also below my expectations.

Just curious, what are your standards that you think this is okay?

Good luck getting a response. We could miss the playoffs the next two years and there would still be people wanting to keep Shanny.


.

[BlaK-Argentina]

Really? The 'franchise QB' thing? How many 'franchise QB's' not named Manning are in the playoffs right now?

Ah, but somehow it still gives us a warm and fuzzy that we're doing it the 'right way' with the genius.



Good luck getting a response. We could miss the playoffs the next two years and there would still be people wanting to keep Shanny.


.

No ****ing way. I want him gone after next season if he doesn't make the playoffs.

[Ace7]

No ****ing way. I want him gone after next season if he doesn't make the playoffs.

Do you know how many people said that last season?

[footstepsfrom#27]

The problem since Jake Plummer was our QB has been defense, period.

Our defense in our 13-3 season was a paper tiger, when it faced real offenses and real teams, it struggled mightily.

Our defense since then is just paper, there is no tiger to it. Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem. And as long as Shanahan is our HC there never will be. He is an offensive minded guy and has NEVER shown true commitment to the defense. This is not a one year deal, this is consistently looking at and evaluating and trying to improve just like he does on offense.

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.
I remember posting just this kind of thing in here a couple years ago and people were still telling me Luther Ellis was a great pickup. How is it that even the dunces in here...most of them anyway...can see the problem and Shanahan can't?

[baja]

The problem since Jake Plummer was our QB has been defense, period.

Our defense in our 13-3 season was a paper tiger, when it faced real offenses and real teams, it struggled mightily.

Our defense since then is just paper, there is no tiger to it. Its gotten worse and worse every year and there has not been real commitment to fixing the problem. And as long as Shanahan is our HC there never will be. He is an offensive minded guy and has NEVER shown true commitment to the defense. This is not a one year deal, this is consistently looking at and evaluating and trying to improve just like he does on offense.

I certainly dont have the answers here. I do know that we will not be a competing team for at least two or three more years and that means potentially a 5 or 6 year playoff drought. Not even Shanahan will survive that.

Good post Alex

[Broncojef]

:sunshine:
A monster MLB and a scary DT to allow the monster MLB to crack skulls.

Slowit has a scheme to drop that stud DT into coverage....just you wait.

[summerdenver]

Slowit has a scheme to drop that stud DT into coverage....just you wait.

:rofl:

[broncsyanks]

A healthy back? what would shanny do with that. give him 10 carries a game?

Kilza is dead on.

lmao i said the same thing when i read it. yeah ok. a back solves things for the defense. HELLLOOOOO!!! WAKE THE HELL UP!! your defense sux bowlen. its a disgrace. you should be ashamed of yourself for putting that out there with all of those holes. marlon mcree and the otehr idiot. please. INVEST IN A DEFENSE AND A QUALITY DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR>

[gunns]

I don't think it has. We're 3 years removed from the AFCCG. I believe the rebuild started when we drafted Cutler.

And it seems we have done a very good job at rebuilding the offense in 3 years. The D has been lousy for 10 years but if there was a rebuilding it began with the Browncos.

With a solid org like Denver it should never take 10+ years to rebuild a D or a team.

Exactly.

[rovolution]

Slowit has a scheme to drop that stud DT into coverage....just you wait.

Hilarious! Hilarious!