The last 10 year period with 1 or less playoff wins started in 1966

[Popps]

It's now officially been a decade with only one playoff win.

Unless my math is wrong, it looks to me like the last decade with that kind of futility started in 1966. (through 76)

[SoDak Bronco]

i think we have been pretty spoiled!!!!

[wolf754life]

i think we shouldn't care and let this franchise slip into a deep malaise and accept our failures.

we are soo spoiled, lets not get upset, kumbiya my lord, kumbiya!!!

[Popps]

I'm having a hard time with the math here, but if this is right... it's the worst 10 years of Broncos football in my life, from a playoff perspective.

[SoDak Bronco]

not saying that at all..just being real, look around we have had it pretty good, i wish it was better, but that's the good thing, we have next year :)

[Rohirrim]

Well, some people are Mike Shanahan fans and some people are Broncos fans. The Mike Shanahan fans are doing okay. They've been buying his rap for ten years and they'll buy it some more. The Broncos fans aren't too happy.

[long beach bronco]

Being mediore is worse than being bad, because with being bad, you know what you are getting, being mediocre teases at your mind with greatness and let's you down in the end

[Popps]

not saying that at all..just being real, look around we have had it pretty good, i wish it was better, but that's the good thing, we have next year :)

True. I'm excited to see where this goes. But, as a 30 year fan... I'm just not used to this kind of futility from the franchise. Wins are nice, but it's been a bad ten years with regards to playoffs.

[bombay]

What do you'll suggest to cure this malady?

[Popps]

What do you'll suggest to cure this malady?

I don't know. I've been in favor of keeping Shanahan for another year. I'm trying to stick with that, but tonight was an utter embarrassment and there's no excuses. These were most of our defensive starters. We're getting worse on D every year.

I have no idea how to fix this. But, we need major play-makers... NOW. We needed a Joey Porter type... a Jenkins type, etc. We need a real MLB, and two new starting safeties.

The defense is basically at zero. Champ is showing his age.. DJ (our "star") is a joke... and our best linemen are just average.

We need major, major moves... not the same bull**** Shanahan's been spoon-feeding us for years. We need an all-out spend-fest in free agency and we need to take multiple shots at the top of the draft, including trading up for home-run hitters on D.

Even then, it's hard to say. This team just has an attitude problem and has for a few years, now.

[NFLBRONCO]

I don't know. I've been in favor of keeping Shanahan for another year. I'm trying to stick with that, but tonight was an utter embarrassment and there's no excuses. These were most of our defensive starters. We're getting worse on D every year.

I have no idea how to fix this. But, we need major play-makers... NOW. We needed a Joey Porter type... a Jenkins type, etc. We need a real MLB, and two new starting safeties.

The defense is basically at zero. Champ is showing his age.. DJ (our "star") is a joke... and our best linemen are just average.

We need major, major moves... not the same bull**** Shanahan's been spoon-feeding us for years. We need an all-out spend-fest in free agency and we need to take multiple shots at the top of the draft, including trading up for home-run hitters on D.

Even then, it's hard to say. This team just has an attitude problem and has for a few years, now.


Imo this is WHEN if we did make a change to do one. Our D is a mess but, our O is close so new staff have something to work with. If Shanny did exact same thing as he's done here last 10 yrs in another city fans here would laugh their asses off call him overrated but, since he's here he's a god.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Denver Chiefs?

[Rohirrim]

I don't know. I've been in favor of keeping Shanahan for another year. I'm trying to stick with that, but tonight was an utter embarrassment and there's no excuses. These were most of our defensive starters. We're getting worse on D every year.

I have no idea how to fix this. But, we need major play-makers... NOW. We needed a Joey Porter type... a Jenkins type, etc. We need a real MLB, and two new starting safeties.

The defense is basically at zero. Champ is showing his age.. DJ (our "star") is a joke... and our best linemen are just average.

We need major, major moves... not the same bull**** Shanahan's been spoon-feeding us for years. We need an all-out spend-fest in free agency and we need to take multiple shots at the top of the draft, including trading up for home-run hitters on D.

Even then, it's hard to say. This team just has an attitude problem and has for a few years, now.

Champ should really be traded this off-season, depending on where his contract is at.

[bombay]

I don't know. I've been in favor of keeping Shanahan for another year. I'm trying to stick with that, but tonight was an utter embarrassment and there's no excuses. These were most of our defensive starters. We're getting worse on D every year.

I have no idea how to fix this. But, we need major play-makers... NOW. We needed a Joey Porter type... a Jenkins type, etc. We need a real MLB, and two new starting safeties.

The defense is basically at zero. Champ is showing his age.. DJ (our "star") is a joke... and our best linemen are just average.

We need major, major moves... not the same bull**** Shanahan's been spoon-feeding us for years. We need an all-out spend-fest in free agency and we need to take multiple shots at the top of the draft, including trading up for home-run hitters on D.

Even then, it's hard to say. This team just has an attitude problem and has for a few years, now.

Ok. I was curious what your solution might be. Agree with what you've typed above. I'd like to see Shanahan in charge of another draft and free agent season after this past season.

[bpc]

I'm still good with Shanahan. We aren't that far away.

The defense needs a major change. This is the most frustrated i've been in a long time. Probably since Detroit last year.

I expect defensive changes within the week.

[NFLBRONCO]

I'm still good with Shanahan. We aren't that far away.

The defense needs a major change. This is the most frustrated i've been in a long time. Probably since Detroit last year.

I expect defensive changes within the week.


My question is will major change be quality changes or more bargain changes in 09.

[CBF1]

I'm still good with Shanahan. We aren't that far away.

The defense needs a major change. This is the most frustrated i've been in a long time. Probably since Detroit last year.

I expect defensive changes within the week.

Let me get this straight.

Our offense if good... check
Our _efense sucks at the very best
Our special teams are not so special.

Looks like we are halfway at best to being a good team, that my friend is pretty damn far away in my book

[yerner]

Fine, whatever, fire shanny. Who cares. Just do whatever possible to shut wolfie the **** up.

[wolf754life]

well just so you know, slowick is back baby!

one more year of it, then will you shut your mouths and join the cause?

disgraceful fanboys!

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't know. I've been in favor of keeping Shanahan for another year. I'm trying to stick with that, but tonight was an utter embarrassment and there's no excuses. These were most of our defensive starters. We're getting worse on D every year.

I have no idea how to fix this. But, we need major play-makers... NOW. We needed a Joey Porter type... a Jenkins type, etc. We need a real MLB, and two new starting safeties.

The defense is basically at zero. Champ is showing his age.. DJ (our "star") is a joke... and our best linemen are just average.

We need major, major moves... not the same bull**** Shanahan's been spoon-feeding us for years. We need an all-out spend-fest in free agency and we need to take multiple shots at the top of the draft, including trading up for home-run hitters on D.

Even then, it's hard to say. This team just has an attitude problem and has for a few years, now.

Now you're starting to sound like Wolf Jr, Popps. DJ a "joke?" The guy was playing at All-Pro levels before he got hurt. Champ showing his age? He was playing great until he tore his groin and missed all that time.

Seriously, you took alot of crap here this last offseason for your antics (I believe Kaylore called you a "characture of yourself) but when you stop being a drama queen, you're a good poster.

So how about you quit being a drama queen?

This 10 year thing, yeah it sucks on it's face but you need to look at it with perspective. Shanahan built that team into a SB winner, but many of the pieces were either at the end of their careers (Elway, Schlereth, Zimmerman, Smith, Williams, Atwater, Crockett, Braxton) or, in Davis' case, suffered a career ending injury.

After that, Shanahan tried to build a winner with Griese and then Plummer and he got close, but not close enough. What's he do? Blows up the team, gets a franchise QB and builds a powerhouse offense. Now, there is nothing left to concentrate on besides the defense.

Getting rid of Shanahan is going to set this team back, no debating that, but I do agree that we need a new DC (sending Slowik back to DBs) and improved talent at several defensive positions.

If we put together another draft like this years and get someone who can make the most out of talent we already have...and this team will be fine.

[Florida_Bronco]

Let me get this straight.

Our offense if good... check
Our _efense sucks at the very best
Our special teams are not so special.

Looks like we are halfway at best to being a good team, that my friend is pretty damn far away in my book

The defense and special teams are related. We lack talent at several starting positions and our backup talent is abysmal, and since backup defensive players usually make the kick coverage teams...well...there ya go.

[Popps]

Let me get this straight.

Our offense if good... check
Our _efense sucks at the very best
Our special teams are not so special.

Looks like we are halfway at best to being a good team, that my friend is pretty damn far away in my book

I think the problem is, we've been in this place for a while. Shanahan will always have a viable offensive product on the field. That's never been the issue. The issue for these historically bad 10 years has been the defense, and it's gotten steadily worse during this most recent "rebuilding" process.

[summerdenver]

I think the problem is, we've been in this place for a while. Shanahan will always have a viable offensive product on the field. That's never been the issue. The issue for these historically bad 10 years has been the defense, and it's gotten steadily worse during this most recent "rebuilding" process.

and "special" teams.

[Popps]

Now you're starting to sound like Wolf Jr, Popps. DJ a "joke?"

I don't know anything about Wolf. I have no idea what that means.

As for DJ... I've said for years that I thought he was average at best, and yea... tonight, he was a ****ing joke. He got his b**** ass run the **** over after literally jogging down a play. The guy never makes a play in the backfield and never makes a big play, in general.

This isn't new, Florida. I've never been a big fan. You're not keeping up if you think this is a new stance for me. Yes, I may have expressed it with a bit more passion tonight. Forgive me... I'm a Broncos fan of 30 years. Losses like this aren't fun for me.


Seriously, you took alot of crap here this last offseason for your antics

Oh, Florida... you of all people should know how seriously I take "crap" that anyone gives me around here. As for my "antics," I'm assuming you mean my continually asserting that our defense was a black hole?

Catch the game tonight? How do my "antics" look now?

but when you stop being a drama queen, you're a good poster.

I'm a good poster when you agree with me. That's how these things go. When you agree with someone... they're a good poster. When you don't, their not. Human nature.

I don't back down from my stances, though... and that doesn't always make me friends, which you also probably know I don't care about. I'm here to read good football takes and deliver some opinions, myself. Take them or leave them... but I don't tone anything down in order to drink some kind of Orange Mane Kool-Aid and pretend things are just swell.

Again, if you have any passion for this team... you shouldn't be selling happy-talk tonight.

The organization is historically bad right now. Again, it's the worst decade of playoff (or lack of) football this team has played in my entire life. If you want some kind of happy-spin... just look elsewhere.

I want to see this team get better, not make excuses for why we're inept.

[Popps]

The defense and special teams are related. We lack talent at several starting positions and our backup talent is abysmal, and since backup defensive players usually make the kick coverage teams...well...there ya go.

So, wait... how am I being "dramatic" and you're not?

Because I simply stated a bit of factual information that this team is historically bad right now?

I'm confused.

[houghtam]

I love you Popps. You are my hero.

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't know anything about Wolf. I have no idea what that means.

As for DJ... I've said for years that I thought he was average at best, and yea... tonight, he was a ****ing joke. He got his b**** ass run the **** over after literally jogging down a play. The guy never makes a play in the backfield and never makes a big play, in general.

This isn't new, Florida. I've never been a big fan. You're not keeping up if you think this is a new stance for me. Yes, I may have expressed it with a bit more passion tonight. Forgive me... I'm a Broncos fan of 30 years. Losses like this aren't fun for me.

Great. Everyone else can seemingly watch DJ and see how great he was playing pre-injury, I don't see why you can't. He was one of the few bright spots this year on defense.

Oh, Florida... you of all people should know how seriously I take "crap" that anyone gives me around here. As for my "antics," I'm assuming you mean my continually asserting that our defense was a black hole?

Catch the game tonight? How do my "antics" look now?

Dammit Popps, it doesn't have anything to do with you being pissed with our defense. It has to do with your disdain clouding your vision of whats right with the defense...like DJ.

I'm a good poster when you agree with me. That's how these things go. When you agree with someone... they're a good poster. When you don't, their not. Human nature. That's not true at all. I've disagreed with lots of great posters here, Wabbit and Mediator included.

I don't back down from my stances, though... and that doesn't always make me friends, which you also probably know I don't care about. I'm here to read good football takes and deliver some opinions, myself. Take them or leave them... but I don't tone anything down in order to drink some kind of Orange Mane Kool-Aid and pretend things are just swell. Popps, don't get me wrong. I don't take disagreements personally, nor do I think you're a bad guy. I like you as a poster, when you're not being a drama queen.

Again, if you have any passion for this team... you shouldn't be selling happy-talk tonight. Nor should you be crying meltdown. There is a difference between happy talking and keeping perspective.

The organization is historically bad right now. Again, it's the worst decade of playoff (or lack of) football this team has played in my entire life. If you want some kind of happy-spin... just look elsewhere. Again, you need to look at it with perspective.

I want to see this team get better, not make excuses for why we're inept. Agreed, but lets not take this into the realm of dismantling the car to fix the transmission.

And again, please understand I'm not trying to be personal. I like you as a person and as a poster, I just want to see the smart, rational Popps.

[Florida_Bronco]

So, wait... how am I being "dramatic" and you're not?

Because I simply stated a bit of factual information that this team is historically bad right now?

I'm confused.

Popps, while what you said was indeed, accurate, there was a definite overly negative and dramatic spin to it. I'm too young to remember the team that you are talking about, but I'm pretty sure they had problems much deeper than what we have now...like lack of obvious improvement and direction.

[broncofan2438]

idiots

[Popps]

Great. Everyone else can seemingly watch DJ and see how great he was playing pre-injury, I don't see why you can't. He was one of the few bright spots this year on defense. .

We'll find out shortly if "everyone" thinks he's such a stud.


Dammit Popps, it doesn't have anything to do with you being pissed with our defense. It has to do with your disdain clouding your vision of whats right with the defense...like DJ..

My disdain comes from simply flipping to a Ravens or Steelers game and watching real LBs fly around and destroy people, now pussies like Boss Bailey or DJ Williams get run into after 5 yard gains. (Or worse, jog a play down and get smacked in the mouth like DJ did tonight.)



Popps, don't get me wrong. I don't take disagreements personally, nor do I think you're a bad guy. I like you as a poster, when you're not being a drama queen.
Nor should you be crying meltdown. There is a difference between happy talking and keeping perspective.

Why can't perspective be a reflection on actual reality instead of the reality we WISH it was? Isn't that what perspective really is?

Perspective is looking at our playoff record over a decade and realizing it's the worst in most of our lives. Now, you don't get much more clear perspective than that.

We have major, fundamental flaws in this organization. I've watched it closely since about 1975. I've got plenty of perspective.

[Florida_Bronco]

We'll find out shortly if "everyone" thinks he's such a stud. I would say we already have, as the team as resigned him to a long term contract.

My disdain comes from simply flipping to a Ravens or Steelers game and watching real LBs fly around and destroy people, now pussies like Boss Bailey or DJ Williams get run into after 5 yard gains. (Or worse, jog a play down and get smacked in the mouth like DJ did tonight.) That's exactly what I saw from DJ prior to his injury.

Why can't perspective be a reflection on actual reality instead of the reality we WISH it was? Isn't that what perspective really is?

Perspective is looking at our playoff record over a decade and realizing it's the worst in most of our lives. Now, you don't get much more clear perspective than that.

We have major, fundamental flaws in this organization. I've watched it closely since about 1975. I've got plenty of perspective.

Easy. It's called over simplifying something, and you're doing it. Its one thing to say "well, this is happening now and it happened then, so something must be terribly wrong." Or, you can look into the circumstances and causes and see that the two situations are not really that related.

[Popps]

I would say we already have, as the team as resigned him to a long term contract.
.

Yea, and who are we to question a team with such an impeccable eye for defensive talent. I mean, our rankings really say it all.


That's exactly what I saw from DJ prior to his injury.


Well, I threw up a little poll to test your theory. Let's just say the early results are just a little off of your "everyone" claim.


Easy. It's called over simplifying something, and you're doing it. Its one thing to say "well, this is happening now and it happened then, so something must be terribly wrong." Or, you can look into the circumstances and causes and see that the two situations are not really that related.

Incorrect.

Sample-size is absolutely crucial to any thesis, experiment, study, etc. A decade-long sample-size is massive, by NFL-terms. A decade-long statistic of only one playoff win eliminates all sorts of potential short-term ills that may have temporarily curbed our success.

In other words, oversimplifying (as you say) would be to say that Shanahan should be fired because we were bad this year. Conversely, the single most important stat to a football team is playoff wins... and we've got one in a decade.

Looking at historic data like this allows to CUT THROUGH the noise, not add to it.

Sometimes it's necessary.

[TomServo]

i think we have been pretty spoiled!!!!

bullsht!! are the cowboys, steelers,pats,spoiled or good franchises? they cut their hof coaches loose and went to some more SBs. if anyone questions the great shanahan we are called ingrates because of some dusty lomdardis.

[Popps]

bullsht!! are the cowboys, steelers,pats,spoiled or good franchises? they cut their hof coaches loose and went to some more SBs. if anyone questions the great shanahan we are called ingrates because of some dusty lomdardis.

The Steelers have kicked our ass as a franchise over the last 15 years. Yes, we won 2 SBs with a HOF QB, but one playoff win in a decade just doesn't cut it.

Knoll replaced by Cower who had success... and now another young coach having success.

Again, not saying we should can Shanahan just yet, but people are so bloody afraid of change, it's just weird.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The Steelers have kicked our ass as a franchise over the last 15 years. Yes, we won 2 SBs with a HOF QB, but one playoff win in a decade just doesn't cut it.

Knoll replaced by Cower who had success... and now another young coach having success.

Again, not saying we should can Shanahan just yet, but people are so bloody afraid of change, it's just weird.
I'll say it. Shanny has to go. This is like keeping an old girl friend around who you really don't like that much anymore just so you have something to do on a Saturday night. Meanwhile the prom queen just might say yes but you're to chicken to ask her out.

I hate to see it actually...but a decade worth of futility does not lie.

[TomServo]

weve seen the greats come and go popps. knoll.landry,shula.grant.
good god red miller won more playoff games than shanahan the last ten years and took the broncos to the big prize game and was shown the door. reeves took us to three and was fired. does someone have to start a "what was cool the last time the broncos won a SB" thread?

[Popps]

weve seen the greats come and go popps. knoll.landry,shula.grant.
good god red miller won more playoff games than shanahan the last ten years and took the broncos to the big prize game and was shown the door. reeves took us to three and was fired. does someone have to start a "what was cool the last time the broncos won a SB" thread?

Honestly... if you're under 40 years old or so... this is the worst decade of Broncos playoff football in your life. It dawned on me as we were getting our asses kicked tonight how familiar this had all become. I got the idea to look it up and was horrified at how futile and irrelevant this organization has become.

Honestly, folks... we've become the Chargers. We're just a non-issue in the NFL anymore.

[TomServo]

let me sum this up......i dont care about SBs 32 and 33. weve been totally embarrasad(sp) the last ten years. ya freaking hoo. we won some superbowls way back.
k, i imagine no matter how much if you f upped you could keep your job. what an incentive.

[wolf754life]

we are becoming the majority, we will speak our minds, the fanboys can get all upset, but we have a right to our stance, to the cause!

broncos football used to be something SPECIAL, now its just GUTLESS

join the cause, jump from the rats stink!!!

[DomCasual]

we are becoming the majority

162-32 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2413)

Your math is apparently about as good as your spelling/grammar.

[wolf754life]

162-32 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2413)

Your math is apparently about as good as your spelling/grammar.

Slowly but surely

ass kicking after bronco ass kicking will keep turning the tide

52 pts allowed will keep turning the tide

Nepotism will keep turning the tide

Saying that he likes this team will keep turning the tide

Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Karl Paymah, Jack Williams, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie will keep turning the tide

The rat is running out of time!

[TomServo]

break it down and reeves was better. he took a different inferior team to the SB. shanahan won one home game w/out elway.

[Popps]

I'll say it. Shanny has to go. This is like keeping an old girl friend around who you really don't like that much anymore just so you have something to do on a Saturday night. Meanwhile the prom queen just might say yes but you're to chicken to ask her out.

I hate to see it actually...but a decade worth of futility does not lie.

Funny... I made a bad relationship analogy on another thread.

[TomServo]

O yay we won some SBs way back. o yay shanny has a good Total record, discounting this decade. f him and his mansion. gimme red and reeves these days.

[TomServo]

i admit i wasnt a fan in the early 70's. but i had to watch the broncos like any other kid in colorado. this is freakin Rock Bottom. those teams wouldve never laid down and died like last nights team. shanahan should watch those old teams. O No he thinks he knows everything.

[TomServo]

o yay another coach that hitched his wagon to john elway.

[TomServo]

sorry kids , this has been even worse than the 70's. statisticaly, heart. however anyone wants to measure. the early 70s teams fought even tho they sucked. whats this teams excuse?
O we dont have talent...**** you, the 70s teams didnt either. but they didnt lie down like dogs.
from the coach down, this team is heartless

[Popps]

sorry kids , this has been even worse than the 70's. statisticaly, heart. however anyone wants to measure. the early 70s teams fought even tho they sucked. whats this teams excuse?
O we dont have talent...**** you, the 70s teams didnt either. but they didnt lie down like dogs.
from the coach down, this team is heartless


We've been almost annually bad in the 2nd half of seasons. Someone posted the stats here once, but it's mind-boggling. Since the SB... we've gotten worse as the season has gone on almost every single year. I think there were two exceptions.

[ScottXray]

162-32 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2413)

Your math is apparently about as good as your spelling/grammar.

Thats SO last week. Check out todays thread.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=75465

Currently its about 64% that say Shanny should go if he doesn't get into and win in the playoffs by at least NEXT year, and about even between the Go NOW and stay forever proponents at about 30% each.

Last night was just UGLY! Showed some people what is REALITY.

[Popps]

Shanahan's team has gotten worse as the year has gone on each of the last three years. Exactly the opposite of what a "rebuild" should look like....

2nd half of the season....

2008 4-4 (three straight losses)
2007 3-5
2006 3-5

[Cito Pelon]

I'm having a hard time with the math here, but if this is right... it's the worst 10 years of Broncos football in my life, from a playoff perspective.

Your math is correct. Same math applies to AFC West Titles. Bad stretch of years by Bronco standards we've been in since 1998.

[Peoples Champ]

not saying that at all..just being real, look around we have had it pretty good, i wish it was better, but that's the good thing, we have next year :)


I think we have had it pretty good. Of course I would love a Superbowl contender every year, who wouldnt? But in the reality, it cannot happen. especially in the Free agency era.

Anyone who demands a contenter every year, or expects us to get a playoff win or two every year is getting a little demanding.

Just because our franchise has had a successful past with great fans, doesnt mean we should act like Yankees fans and think it should be a given that our team is the best every year and will win it all every year.

My friends that are Rams fans here in STL would kill to have a 8-8 year, and I know you guys will say that Bronco fans are better, and I agree, we are better, but we cant get so cocky like Yankees fans and realize some fans would kill to have a 8-8 year.

[Popps]

Your math is correct. Same math applies to AFC West Titles. Bad stretch of years by Bronco standards we've been in since 1998.

Someone corrected me... the first period of this kind of futility started in 1960, but I was backing it up to the last 10 years closest to a playoff win. So, it would have begun in 1966.

It's amazing what a non-factor we've become. I'm wondering if a lot of fans here are just new to the team and accept this kind of futility because they weren't a part of a the great Broncos teams that started in the 70s and continued through the next two decades.

Honestly, we're just an afterthought in the NFL, now. The Chargers hold as much clout as far as current relevance.

[Meck77]

Well, some people are Mike Shanahan fans and some people are Broncos fans. The Mike Shanahan fans are doing okay. They've been buying his rap for ten years and they'll buy it some more. The Broncos fans aren't too happy.

Great point. I'll go a step further and say that most of the Shanahan fans don't remember an era of Broncos football before Mike Shanahan and that is why they are so infatuated with him.

[Popps]

Great point. I'll go a step further and say that most of the Shanahan fans don't remember an era of Broncos football before Mike Shanahan and that is why they are so infatuated with him.

Agree, though the other side of the coin is the people who DID live through the 70s and 80s Broncos and finally got the SB wins they deserved under Shanahan. It's understandable that the guy would breed some loyalty among most fans.

I've defended him for years around this and other boards. I've been a big fan. I still am. I think he's a great game-day coach. But, this nonsense about this being a "rebuild" is some silliness that's almost embarrassing to watch people put out there.

"Rebuilds" result in teams getting better, not worse. We've gone nowhere in three years, and our defense is absolutely worse than when the imaginary "rebuild" started.

Beyond that, if Shanahan "blew up" the AFCCG team... as some assert, that's even more lunacy. You don't "blow up" a team on the doorstep of a Superbowl... you add pieces and WIN a Superbowl.

For the record, I don't think he "blew anything up." I think he chose to ignore massive defensive needs and missed a potentially golden opportunity to win a SB the following year... and before anyone moans about Plummer, I'm not so sure we couldn't have just brought Cutler in as a rookie and started him out of the gate and won a SB if Shanahan had gone out and made some real moves on defense.

But, here we are.... three years after that with a team that gets worse as the season goes on every year. No young defensive stars, one aging star and a DC that's highly suspect.

At a certain point, you have to look at Shanahan and simply wonder if he even knows what he's trying to do.

Niko Koutouvides, Boss Bailey and Marlon McCree.

Yea, that ought to get it done, Mike. Great eye, buddy.

[Peoples Champ]

Great point. I'll go a step further and say that most of the Shanahan fans don't remember an era of Broncos football before Mike Shanahan and that is why they are so infatuated with him.



Ya, there are obvious reasons why newer fans are infatuated with him. He brought the broncos their first and only superbowls ever, and crafting that team beautifully to do so.

Take the Red Sox for example. Is Terry Francona the best Red Sox manager ever? Maybe , Maybe not, but newer fans love him because he brought them to their first World Series in almost 100 years. (but baseball is different with no salary cap, and with their money these days they wont have one playoff win in 10 years)

[Rohirrim]

Agree, though the other side of the coin is the people who DID live through the 70s and 80s Broncos and finally got the SB wins they deserved under Shanahan. It's understandable that the guy would breed some loyalty among most fans.

I've defended him for years around this and other boards. I've been a big fan. I still am. I think he's a great game-day coach. But, this nonsense about this being a "rebuild" is some silliness that's almost embarrassing to watch people put out there.

"Rebuilds" result in teams getting better, not worse. We've gone nowhere in three years, and our defense is absolutely worse than when the imaginary "rebuild" started.

Beyond that, if Shanahan "blew up" the AFCCG team... as some assert, that's even more lunacy. You don't "blow up" a team on the doorstep of a Superbowl... you add pieces and WIN a Superbowl.

For the record, I don't think he "blew anything up." I think he chose to ignore massive defensive needs and missed a potentially golden opportunity to win a SB the following year... and before anyone moans about Plummer, I'm not so sure we couldn't have just brought Cutler in as a rookie and started him out of the gate and won a SB if Shanahan had gone out and made some real moves on defense.

But, here we are.... three years after that with a team that gets worse as the season goes on every year. No young defensive stars, one aging star and a DC that's highly suspect.

At a certain point, you have to look at Shanahan and simply wonder if he even knows what he's trying to do.

Niko Koutouvides, Boss Bailey and Marlon McCree.

Yea, that ought to get it done, Mike. Great eye, buddy.

"Rebuild" started after the second SB win when Elway (especially) and all those other great vets started leaving, followed by the loss of TD. That's when the Broncos had to come up with a new QB, a new offensive line, a new RB, replace key defensive players, etc. That was ten years ago, folks.

[Popps]

"Rebuild" started after the second SB win when Elway (especially) and all those other great vets started leaving, followed by the loss of TD. That's when the Broncos had to come up with a new QB, a new offensive line, a new RB, replace key defensive players, etc. That was ten years ago, folks.

That rebuild sputtered out with Griese, then rebuild 2(?) started with Plummer which at least led to an AFCCG, and instead of trying to push through and win a championship by singing a couple of top defensive players.... Shanahan "blew up" (so claim some) the roster... and here we are, in rebuild number ? with the worst D in the league and three seasons of getting worse every year fading from start to finish.

[Cito Pelon]

Shanahan's team has gotten worse as the year has gone on each of the last three years. Exactly the opposite of what a "rebuild" should look like....

2nd half of the season....

2008 4-4 (three straight losses)
2007 3-5
2006 3-5


It was that way in the wildcard years of 2003 and 2004 also. 2003 started 5-1 finished 5-5. 2004 started 5-1 finished 5-5, were 7-3 and finished 3-3.

Also, Denver has been outscored in the 4th quarter in all but two years since 1998. This year Denver has been outscored in the second half 219-178 and in the 4th quarter 124-108.

Disturbing and consistent patterns.

[Popps]

It was that way in the wildcard years of 2003 and 2004 also. 2003 started 5-1 finished 5-5. 2004 started 5-1 finished 5-5, were 7-3 and finished 3-3.

Also, Denver has been outscored in the 4th quarter in all but two years since 1998. This year Denver has been outscored in the second half 219-178 and in the 4th quarter 124-108.

Disturbing and consistent patterns.



Disturbing is right.

Going into this year, all I wanted to see was us not fall apart at the end of the year. I just wanted to see momentum and improvement. Instead, we got the absolute opposite. The defense looked the worst in the last game and honestly... Cutler doesn't even look any better than he did mid-season.

It's just a throw-away year. Yes, Clady is great. Yes, we nabbed a couple of offensive weapons. We still have no direction, no base of young defensive players... nothing.

We start at square one........ again, next year after another fizzling, fading finish.

Doesn't anyone else sort of wonder if a continually fading team might be a reflection of the coaching staff? Am I the only one that thinks how a team finishes is a reflection of the coach?

[Cito Pelon]

Someone corrected me... the first period of this kind of futility started in 1960, but I was backing it up to the last 10 years closest to a playoff win. So, it would have begun in 1966.

It's amazing what a non-factor we've become. I'm wondering if a lot of fans here are just new to the team and accept this kind of futility because they weren't a part of a the great Broncos teams that started in the 70s and continued through the next two decades.

Honestly, we're just an afterthought in the NFL, now. The Chargers hold as much clout as far as current relevance.

See the post just above this one. Some fans are happy with being over .500 most years, getting a playoff appearance a few times in ten years, a Div Title every ten years.

No, your math was correct - the LAST 10-yr period with this current lack of playoff wins and AFC West titles was from 1966-1976. In your entire life maybe this isn't the worst stretch, but in a ten-year stretch, yes it's the worst from 1966-1976 by a pretty good margin. From 1979-1985 Denver went two wildcards, one AFC West title, 0 playoff wins. So that was only 7 yrs, and the worst stretch prior to this one until you go back to the 1966-1976 stretch.

[Cito Pelon]

Great point. I'll go a step further and say that most of the Shanahan fans don't remember an era of Broncos football before Mike Shanahan and that is why they are so infatuated with him.

True. There's also this myth out there Reeves sucked and ruined Elway. They don't even know Reeves hired Shanny into the NFL in 1984 and promoted him from WR coach, to QB coach, then OC. And even after Shanny defected to the arch-enemy Raiders as the Raider HC, Reeves brought him back as OC again after Shanny was fired by Al Davis.