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broncofan7
12-28-2008, 06:51 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11321747


Tonight is the first night of the rest of Mike Shanahan's coaching life.

Tonight is the most critical game of Mike Shanahan's career.

Tonight is not about fired defensive coordinators, special-teams coaches, Jay Cutler's development, young offensive linemen, hurt cornerbacks, an inconsistent kicker, Brandon Marshall or linebackers. Tonight is not about LaDainian Tomlinson's foot or Philip Rivers' mouth or Jacque Cesaire's foot in mouth. Tonight is not about gags and heaves.

Tonight is not about Ed Hochuli. Tonight is not about bad blood between the Chargers and the Broncos. Tonight is not about seven injured running backs. Tonight is not about Qualcomm Stadium, the site of the Broncos' most glorious victory and one of the most disheartening season-ending defeats.

Tonight is all about Mike Shanahan.

Tonight, tonight, tonight — oh. — Genesis.

Does Mike Shanahan have a two-point conversion when nobody else would have considered it, a timeout nobody else has thought of, a pass play on third down nobody else has diagramed before, a player to use on both sides of the ball that nobody else would be prepared for?

Will Mike Shanahan try for a field goal when he should not, go conservative when he must not, force the quarterback to make a throw he cannot, put his team in a position he would not?

The game is Mike Shanahan's, to win or lose.

Norv Turner will not win or lose the game. It is not expected of him. Turner is Mediocre Man. Mike Shanahan is Master Man. He is supposed to be better and brighter and rise above.

Napoleon Bonaparte met his Waterloo outside Brussels, and lost, and was sent to Saint Helena. Mike Shanahan meets his own Waterloo, in San Diego, tonight. Win, and he will battle on. Lose, and he and those who follow him will wonder.

After the Broncos lost at home to Miami on Nov. 2, dropping their record to 4-4, and before they played the Thursday night game at Cleveland, I wrote that the final eight games of the regular season would be a referendum on Mike Shanahan.

If the Broncos failed to win the AFC West or six more games, the response would be a resounding "No," and Shanahan would have to go.

The reactions were intense and divided.

The Broncos promptly won games in Cleveland and Atlanta. Despite the startling defeat at home to Oakland, the Broncos pulled off their own startling victory in New Jersey against the Jets. Because of the Broncos' Dec. 7 victory over Kansas City, they had to win one to clinch the playoffs. They still have to win one.

And tonight is the one.

It has been pointed out, again and again and again for 15 weeks, that the Broncos have suffered serious injuries at running back (an astonishing five different starters gone for the year), linebacker (all three starters) and in the defensive backfield (Champ Bailey), but it should be pointed out that the Chargers have been without linebacker Shawne Merriman for 14 games, and Tomlinson, who had a lingering toe problem, has rushed for more than 100 yards only twice.

But the reality is that the Broncos should have won at least four more games (at Kansas City; home vs. Jacksonville, Oakland and Buffalo) no matter who was playing, and they could have lost at least four more games (Cleveland, Atlanta, New Orleans and, of course, San Diego), so they probably are where they should be.

There can be no denying, by Mike Shanahan and anyone else, that in the past three years the Broncos have become an ordinary team. From 2006-08, they have a 13-11 record at home. In the same span, in November and December, the Broncos are 12-14.

And the Broncos are 24-23 overall the past three seasons.

Tonight is the vote on Shanahan.

If the Broncos win in San Diego, they will overcome all the difficulties of the regular season to serve as the host of a postseason game in a week. It will be submitted that Mike Shanahan did his most masterful job as a coach, getting the Broncos to the playoffs for the eighth time in 14 years. Everything else would be holiday gravy.

If the Broncos lose to the Chargers, they will be at home next week — watching the playoffs on television for the third straight year, a dubious distinction that has not happened to Mike Shanahan as an NFL assistant or head coach. (He coached in six Super Bowls.) He will miss the playoffs for the sixth time in 10 years.
With a victory tonight, Mike Shanahan will have the chance to grow his young team without interference or denigration. With a defeat tonight, Mike Shanahan will be subjected to more criticism — and cries for change. The Broncos will be as irrelevant as 15 other teams.

Twice before, Broncos owner Pat Bowlen has fired coaches one season removed from the playoffs. Bowlen will not fire Mike Shanahan, and Mike Shanahan will not quit. But this game is Mike Shanahan's most important if he doesn't want to continue to lose his national reputation, and lose the fans, the media, his power base with the franchise and the owner, and his players.

This is a crossroad less traveled for Mike Shanahan. Lose, and it will be lost. Win, and it will be found.

Tonight, tonight, tonight, he can make it right.

According to 80% of this board, I thought we were rebuilding? Why can't Woody see that.............

baja
12-28-2008, 07:09 AM
If you want to question Mike Shanahan than the question is the Bills game and to a little lesser degree the Raiders game and the Chiefs game, not this last week in SD, this should be a meaningless game if Shanahan wants to carry the monkier "Mastermind"

Cito Pelon
12-28-2008, 07:51 AM
Shanny deserves a lot of criticism regardless of the outcome of this game. But he's not going away for another couple years. Who knows, maybe he'll get his act together.

lex
12-28-2008, 07:52 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11321747


Tonight is the first night of the rest of Mike Shanahan's coaching life.

Tonight is the most critical game of Mike Shanahan's career.

Tonight is not about fired defensive coordinators, special-teams coaches, Jay Cutler's development, young offensive linemen, hurt cornerbacks, an inconsistent kicker, Brandon Marshall or linebackers. Tonight is not about LaDainian Tomlinson's foot or Philip Rivers' mouth or Jacque Cesaire's foot in mouth. Tonight is not about gags and heaves.

Tonight is not about Ed Hochuli. Tonight is not about bad blood between the Chargers and the Broncos. Tonight is not about seven injured running backs. Tonight is not about Qualcomm Stadium, the site of the Broncos' most glorious victory and one of the most disheartening season-ending defeats.

Tonight is all about Mike Shanahan.

Tonight, tonight, tonight — oh. — Genesis.

Does Mike Shanahan have a two-point conversion when nobody else would have considered it, a timeout nobody else has thought of, a pass play on third down nobody else has diagramed before, a player to use on both sides of the ball that nobody else would be prepared for?

Will Mike Shanahan try for a field goal when he should not, go conservative when he must not, force the quarterback to make a throw he cannot, put his team in a position he would not?

The game is Mike Shanahan's, to win or lose.

Norv Turner will not win or lose the game. It is not expected of him. Turner is Mediocre Man. Mike Shanahan is Master Man. He is supposed to be better and brighter and rise above.

Napoleon Bonaparte met his Waterloo outside Brussels, and lost, and was sent to Saint Helena. Mike Shanahan meets his own Waterloo, in San Diego, tonight. Win, and he will battle on. Lose, and he and those who follow him will wonder.

After the Broncos lost at home to Miami on Nov. 2, dropping their record to 4-4, and before they played the Thursday night game at Cleveland, I wrote that the final eight games of the regular season would be a referendum on Mike Shanahan.

If the Broncos failed to win the AFC West or six more games, the response would be a resounding "No," and Shanahan would have to go.

The reactions were intense and divided.

The Broncos promptly won games in Cleveland and Atlanta. Despite the startling defeat at home to Oakland, the Broncos pulled off their own startling victory in New Jersey against the Jets. Because of the Broncos' Dec. 7 victory over Kansas City, they had to win one to clinch the playoffs. They still have to win one.

And tonight is the one.

It has been pointed out, again and again and again for 15 weeks, that the Broncos have suffered serious injuries at running back (an astonishing five different starters gone for the year), linebacker (all three starters) and in the defensive backfield (Champ Bailey), but it should be pointed out that the Chargers have been without linebacker Shawne Merriman for 14 games, and Tomlinson, who had a lingering toe problem, has rushed for more than 100 yards only twice.

But the reality is that the Broncos should have won at least four more games (at Kansas City; home vs. Jacksonville, Oakland and Buffalo) no matter who was playing, and they could have lost at least four more games (Cleveland, Atlanta, New Orleans and, of course, San Diego), so they probably are where they should be.

There can be no denying, by Mike Shanahan and anyone else, that in the past three years the Broncos have become an ordinary team. From 2006-08, they have a 13-11 record at home. In the same span, in November and December, the Broncos are 12-14.

And the Broncos are 24-23 overall the past three seasons.

Tonight is the vote on Shanahan.

If the Broncos win in San Diego, they will overcome all the difficulties of the regular season to serve as the host of a postseason game in a week. It will be submitted that Mike Shanahan did his most masterful job as a coach, getting the Broncos to the playoffs for the eighth time in 14 years. Everything else would be holiday gravy.

If the Broncos lose to the Chargers, they will be at home next week — watching the playoffs on television for the third straight year, a dubious distinction that has not happened to Mike Shanahan as an NFL assistant or head coach. (He coached in six Super Bowls.) He will miss the playoffs for the sixth time in 10 years.
With a victory tonight, Mike Shanahan will have the chance to grow his young team without interference or denigration. With a defeat tonight, Mike Shanahan will be subjected to more criticism — and cries for change. The Broncos will be as irrelevant as 15 other teams.

Twice before, Broncos owner Pat Bowlen has fired coaches one season removed from the playoffs. Bowlen will not fire Mike Shanahan, and Mike Shanahan will not quit. But this game is Mike Shanahan's most important if he doesn't want to continue to lose his national reputation, and lose the fans, the media, his power base with the franchise and the owner, and his players.

This is a crossroad less traveled for Mike Shanahan. Lose, and it will be lost. Win, and it will be found.

Tonight, tonight, tonight, he can make it right.

According to 80% of this board, I thought we were rebuilding? Why can't Woody see that.............

If Denver wins and struggles with a first place schedule, we could likely see another article like this next year. On the other hand, if Denver loses but comes back strong next year (as it is a young team as you said) with Shanahan as coach, this article will be forgotten.

tsiguy96
12-28-2008, 07:54 AM
if we dont make the super bowl in the next 3 years i will be very disappointed. the playoffs this year dont mean ****, we would get destroyed by one of those teams. this team is one DC and 3-4 players away from being GREAT. the youngest starting team in teh NFL (or damn close to it) is about to win their division championship, lets give him a shot for a few years with this team. it seems ever since elway was gone he has been looking for the replacement, and with cutler hes found him.

shanahan has his mold of a team, a great TE, a great RB, a great QB, and atleast 1 if not 2 great WRs, and a defense who can stop someone once in awhile. we are pretty close to that now...

Black96WS6
12-28-2008, 07:56 AM
I've always liked Mike Shanahan and thought he was a good coach...

go_broncos
12-28-2008, 08:15 AM
I've always liked Mike Shanahan and thought he was a good coach...

He is no longer a good coach.

Spider
12-28-2008, 08:17 AM
Unless Bowlen says this .. means nothing

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 08:20 AM
Unless Bowlen says this .. means nothing

Sad but unfortunately true.

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 08:25 AM
Look its a circle jerk of the Drama Queens.

Spider
12-28-2008, 08:25 AM
Sad but unfortunately true.

I dont think there is a decline in Shannys coaching skills , if anything , I think he is doing a great job this year , 8 different running backs , young QB , young WR , T.E. that cant stay healthy , several injures on defense it is a wonder we are not 2 -13 right now ............

tsiguy96
12-28-2008, 08:56 AM
I dont think there is a decline in Shannys coaching skills , if anything , I think he is doing a great job this year , 8 different running backs , young QB , young WR , T.E. that cant stay healthy , several injures on defense it is a wonder we are not 2 -13 right now ............

you think people would understand this?

but no, when we dont win the super bowl the whole year was a failure to these morons.

Spider
12-28-2008, 08:58 AM
you think people would understand this?

but no, when we dont win the super bowl the whole year was a failure to these morons.

well i did read somewhere on here that all we have to do is stop using a 10 yard cushion .......It is obvious Shanny has to read the mane more ;D

baja
12-28-2008, 08:59 AM
you think people would understand this?

but no, when we dont win the super bowl the whole year was a failure to these morons.

Errr Shanny himself considers the season a failure if we don't win the SB and says so every year.

tsiguy96
12-28-2008, 09:00 AM
Errr Shanny himself considers the season a failure if we don't win the SB and says so every year.

given the pathetic defense, the injuries on offense and the DC, this year has been more then a success. if norv was coaching this team wed be 4-12

Spider
12-28-2008, 09:02 AM
Errr Shanny himself considers the season a failure if we don't win the SB and says so every year.

I wonder how long a Head Coach would last in the NFL if he said ........... Man we will be lucky to win 7 games , these guys are a bunch of clowns , funny and lovable , but worthless as títs on a boars ass ?

Inkana7
12-28-2008, 09:04 AM
He is no longer a good coach.

This is bull**** and you know it. Did you go with the Powder Blue Charger uni or their new home colors?

go_broncos
12-28-2008, 09:35 AM
This is bull**** and you know it. Did you go with the Powder Blue Charger uni or their new home colors?

Here are the reasons :

ONE playoff win in the last ten years.

Unable to win the division with 3 games lead.

Doesn't give importance to Defense.

Cant motivate the players during game day.

Loses in must-win games.

Can you tell me the reason why he should still be the Coach??

Spider
12-28-2008, 09:37 AM
Here are the reasons :

ONE playoff win in the last ten years.

Unable to win the division with 3 games lead.

Doesn't give importance to Defense.

Cant motivate the players during game day.

Loses in must-win games.

Can you tell me the reason why he should still be the Coach??

meh......... spitting words to see where they land ........

baja
12-28-2008, 09:43 AM
given the pathetic defense, the injuries on offense and the DC, this year has been more then a success. if norv was coaching this team wed be 4-12

Hey I mean that in a good way, I admire Shanny's hutzpah. That should be every team's goal.

bombquixote
12-28-2008, 09:44 AM
I wonder how long a Head Coach would last in the NFL if he said ........... Man we will be lucky to win 7 games , these guys are a bunch of clowns , funny and lovable , but worthless as títs on a boars ass ?

See Jim Mora...

PLAYOFFS!?

Spider
12-28-2008, 09:53 AM
See Jim Mora...

PLAYOFFS!?

LOL I was wondering if anyone remembered that .........

Taco John
12-28-2008, 09:57 AM
*yawn*


Shanahan facing his own waterloo - except that he's not.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-28-2008, 10:04 AM
If they lose tonight I'll be disappointed that they had their shot to play in the post-season and blew it, but I never thought they were a playoff-caliber team going into this season. They'll be 8-8 right where I predicted them. Sorry to all the people who want Shanahan gone, but even if they blow the 3-game lead, there aren't a handful of coaches in the world who would have had this team in this spot in Week 17. Part of it was the Chargers blowing chunks through 12 games. I hate to break it to people who just refuse to acknowledge it, but this was Year 1 of a multi-year process. They tried to make their run last year with Henry, Rice, etc. and it didn't work out so they scrapped it and went young.

I flat out think this is one of Shanahan's best coaching jobs overall, and a win tonight (which I don't think will happen) will only further cement that. I cannot believe some of you here actually thought this was a 10+ win team going into this season when the only real additions to a 7-9 team that won some very close games last year was a draft class that no one knew how well or poorly it would do.

They've established a young foundation on offense (short of a RB) and have some guys they can build around on defense. It'll suck to watch a 3-game lead evaporate if it happens, but this team is well positioned moving forward.

Popps
12-28-2008, 10:15 AM
*yawn*


Shanahan facing his own waterloo - except that he's not.

Look, you can't begrudge the rest of the world because they hold Mike Shanahan to some kind of a standard. Any other city in the country... and Shanahan would have been gone at the end of last season. So, the fact that Bowlen is irrationally joined at the hip with Shanahan doesn't make the rest of the world incorrect. It just means Bowlen isn't a rational owner at this stage. He's all but said he's not going to be rational about this. He's said Shanahan has a lifetime pass. Is that the way to run an organization?

I'm not saying Shanny SHOULD go, but again... I'm willing to admit my argument for him staying is largely based on hope, because there's no logical reason to assert that Shanahan should keep his current position as coach and GM....

"He's here and he's going to stay here," Bowlen told The Post. "Nobody, I can tell you nobody in this building, myself included, is more concerned and more attentive to what the heck's happened here and how we get back on top than Mike Shanahan."

That quote was after things fell apart last year, but it could have been the year before... and probably could be this year.


I like Shanahan and hope he pulls it together. I just don't confuse that with thinking he deserves the job at this point based on performance, because any other coach would have been fired.

He and Cutler could go a long way to make their case with a win today.

Taco John
12-28-2008, 10:19 AM
Look, you can't begrudge the rest of the world because they hold Mike Shanahan to some kind of a standard.

I'm not. My point was that Woody's article is pointless. Shanahan isn't facing any Waterloo today.

go_broncos
12-28-2008, 10:26 AM
You guys will realize that he needs to be fired after few years(if he is still the head coach).

How could you lose to SF,OAK,KC and BUF??

We always start fast and during Nov&Dec..we keep losing.

Today's game will be ugly..It will be over by half time.

I would like to see Bill Cowher as the coach of our team.

yerner
12-28-2008, 10:29 AM
You guys will realize that he needs to be fired after few years(if he is still the head coach).

How could you lose to SF,OAK,KC and BUF??

We always start fast and during Nov&Dec..we keep losing.

Today's game will be ugly..It will be over by half time.

I would like to see Bill Cowher as the coach of our team.

why is cowher any better than shanny? it took him years to win a superbowl. After he leaves the steelers hardly miss a beat.

Taco John
12-28-2008, 10:31 AM
I would like to see Bill Cowher as the coach of our team.


You're willing to wait 14 more years for a Superbowl?


Bill Cowher will never coach a Pat Bowlen-owned franchise.

go_broncos
12-28-2008, 10:31 AM
why is cowher any better than shanny? it took him years to win a superbowl. After he leaves the steelers hardly miss a beat.

Because he understands the defense.

Forget Superbowl..did u see how their team play.

They don't surrender like we do.

Spider
12-28-2008, 10:33 AM
Because he understands the defense.

Forget Superbowl..did u see how their team play.

They don't surrender like we do.

you are just on this side of annoying ........... I proved it on another thread , Cowher didnt do more then Shanny ... meh I dont know why I even bother

baja
12-28-2008, 10:45 AM
If Denver wins and struggles with a first place schedule, we could likely see another article like this next year. On the other hand, if Denver loses but comes back strong next year (as it is a young team as you said) with Shanahan as coach, this article will be forgotten.

Why do yo feel you have to quote the entire article that defines the thread do you think we missed it the first time?

baja
12-28-2008, 10:59 AM
I see it this way Shanahan has made mistakes, mostly on the GM side of things. His drafting was arrogant and atrocious for years but he learned and got the Goodman team and look at the recent drafts, they're great. His free agent choices had been poor and remain poor but I believe the Goodmans will fix that too. Right now is likely the lowest point of Shannys career and we are looking at a HUGE upside with very good teams to come for years and years. We need to be patient, this is one time that saying "Wait until next year" is applicable.

Play2win
12-28-2008, 10:59 AM
you are just on this side of annoying ........... I proved it on another thread , Cowher didnt do more then Shanny ... meh I dont know why I even bother

Whats even more annoying is that he's got a tag of "Go Broncos", and all he ever does is bitch about the Broncos... I can't remembering him say one positive thing about the Broncos... Let alone rooting for the Broncos...

Rigs11
12-28-2008, 11:28 AM
What morons cant realize is that coaches are not judged on a single year, they are judged over many years. One playoff win in 10 years is not acceptable.

DenverBrit
12-28-2008, 11:35 AM
Shanny's Waterloo?

More Wellington than Napoleon.

Spider
12-28-2008, 11:46 AM
What morons cant realize is that coaches are not judged on a single year, they are judged over many years. One playoff win in 10 years is not acceptable.

oH YEAH ? so tell me hotshot , who is out there ? Name one coach coaching better then shanny right now , Billicheat ?

elsid13
12-28-2008, 11:51 AM
Because he understands the defense.

Forget Superbowl..did u see how their team play.

They don't surrender like we do.

Actually I believe Dick LeBeau actually understand defense. Up to the Superbowl win Cowher was consider Marty with better luck. You want a guy that pick Kordell Stewart to be his QB as leader of this franchise?

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 11:52 AM
oH YEAH ? so tell me hotshot , who is out there ? Name one coach coaching better then shanny right now , Billicheat ?


It's been 10 years he simply want's him gone so we can start the endless cycle of hiring and firing coaches till we find another shanahan.

Sodak
12-28-2008, 11:53 AM
That article reads like a Dr. Seuss book... except I like Dr. Seuss a lot better than Woody.

Spider
12-28-2008, 11:59 AM
It's been 10 years he simply want's him gone so we can start the endless cycle of hiring and firing coaches till we find another shanahan. LOL only if we can start with Jerry Glanville .........

elsid13
12-28-2008, 12:01 PM
LOL only if we can start with Jerry Glanville .........

Portland State 3-7 this year under old Jerry.

Broncojef
12-28-2008, 12:12 PM
Tonight we'll watch another monumental plastering of our team in primetime similar to the Patriots game this year, Jay moping, and the defense having no heart and people will still rant on who would you rather have as the coach. Shanny's a nice guy but he is getting outcoached consistently in games he should be winning.

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:16 PM
Portland State 3-7 this year under old Jerry.

Goooooooooooooooooooooooooo Jerry

orinjkrush
12-28-2008, 12:20 PM
Tonight we'll watch another monumental plastering of our team in primetime similar to the Patriots game this year, Jay moping, and the defense having no heart and people will still rant on who would you rather have as the coach. Shanny's a nice guy but he is getting outcoached consistently in games he should be winning.

this is a really interesting point. let's see how everyone handles the pressure

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 12:25 PM
this is a really interesting point. let's see how everyone handles the pressure


Iam taking a few zanex before gametime ;D

NFLBRONCO
12-28-2008, 12:27 PM
I dont think there is a decline in Shannys coaching skills , if anything , I think he is doing a great job this year , 8 different running backs , young QB , young WR , T.E. that cant stay healthy , several injures on defense it is a wonder we are not 2 -13 right now ............

I think Shanny NEEDS BETTER asst coaches who can teach and get players better.

Rigs11
12-28-2008, 12:28 PM
oH YEAH ? so tell me hotshot , who is out there ? Name one coach coaching better then shanny right now , Billicheat ?

Of course beelichick is better. How many have they won? Then there is coughlin. Shanny is a great coach who needs to leave. It's obviously not working here. Th excuse around here made for him each year are getting old.

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:29 PM
I think Shanny NEEDS BETTER asst coaches who can teach and get players better.
mathematics , it is all mathematics
here is the formula for shanny to stay .....
2+2 add 12 , carry the 5 , then divide that by the # of the Simpson episodes to date .......see , you cant argue against that

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:30 PM
Of course beelichick is better. How many have they won? Then there is coughlin. Shanny is a great coach who needs to leave. It's obviously not working here. Th excuse around here made for him each year are getting old.

beel isnt better ,he **** the bed in Cleveland ........

Rigs11
12-28-2008, 12:31 PM
Tonight we'll watch another monumental plastering of our team in primetime similar to the Patriots game this year, Jay moping, and the defense having no heart and people will still rant on who would you rather have as the coach. Shanny's a nice guy but he is getting outcoached consistently in games he should be winning.

Bastard! You sir are not a broncos fan. How dare you question the mastermind!

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:33 PM
Bastard! You sir are not a broncos fan. How dare you question the mastermind!

it isnt a persons fan status in question ........ It is their sanity

Broncojef
12-28-2008, 12:34 PM
Bastard! You sir are not a broncos fan. How dare you question the mastermind!

Sorry I've seen this movie before...

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:35 PM
Sorry I've seen this movie before...

dont ruin the ending for those us of us who havent seen this flick

Popps
12-28-2008, 12:37 PM
you are just on this side of annoying ........... I proved it on another thread , Cowher didnt do more then Shanny ... meh I dont know why I even bother

He won less Superbowls but played in the same amount, and had his team winning on a more regular basis than Shanahan has. I'm not saying he's a better coach, but his accomplishments are comparable.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 12:37 PM
dont ruin the ending for those us of us who havent seen this flick

Where have you been they have been playing reruns all season ;D

Rigs11
12-28-2008, 12:38 PM
Sorry I've seen this movie before...

Me too. It's freaking disturbing

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:42 PM
He won less Superbowls but played in the same amount, and had his team winning on a more regular basis than Shanahan has. I'm not saying he's a better coach, but his accomplishments are comparable.

Could we have the same results with LeBou ?

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:43 PM
Where have you been they have been playing reruns all season ;D

working on my fat mans happy dance ;D

Rigs11
12-28-2008, 12:46 PM
it isnt a persons fan status in question ........ It is their sanity

You mean the sanity of qccepting a mediocre one playoff win in ten years? Makes sense.

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:47 PM
You mean the sanity of qccepting a mediocre one playoff win in ten years? Makes sense.

No i was thinking more a long the lines of Idiotic expectation , but good guess

Popps
12-28-2008, 12:49 PM
Could we have the same results with LeBou ?

Depends.

If Shanahan gave him the **** talent he's brought in on defense in Denver thel last decade... probably not.

elsid13
12-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Of course beelichick is better. How many have they won? Then there is coughlin. Shanny is a great coach who needs to leave. It's obviously not working here. Th excuse around here made for him each year are getting old.

Coughlin that most folks thought was going to get fired before the run last year?

baja
12-28-2008, 12:51 PM
If you want to make a change than change Shanny the GM not Shanny the coach but that seems to be happening anyway with the Goodmans.

Those that make the FAIL over ten years argument (and I have been one of them) should consider the recent improvements in drafting and the great young offense that has been put together, my point is Shanny is learning and things are getting better very fast now. It's not the same old Broncos, we got young and talented on O and are fixable in one season on D. I can't explain the STs though.

Be patient it's always darkest before the dawn.

Rigs11
12-28-2008, 12:54 PM
Coughlin that most folks thought was going to get fired before the run last year?

Should the coach have unlimited time to rbuild? I have asked this question countless times.

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 12:55 PM
I would be for changing the makeup of the Front Office and letting Shanahan coach. Look the coach doesn't even have to answer to the GM. Bowlen hires the GM and he runs the talent search. Shanny runs the operations. Neither threaten the other and answer to the Boss.

But that isn't happening and there is not a coach better than Shanny that is available. So stay the course.

Popps
12-28-2008, 12:56 PM
If you want to make a change than change Shanny the GM not Shanny the coach put that seems to be happening anyway.

Those that make the FAIL over ten years arguement (and I have been one of them) should consider the recient improvements in drafting and the great young offense that has been put together, my point is Shanny is learning and things are getting better very fast now. It's not the same old Broncos, we got young and talented on O and are fixable in one season on D. I can't explain the STs though.

I agree to an extent. My issue is that 100% of the improvement has come on offense and absolutely none on defense.

Did anyone ever have any doubt that Shanahan could put a good offense together? Even with marginal talent, he manages to excel. I don't think using high draft picks on offensive players and having them work out is really vindication for a decade with only one playoff win.

Shanahan needed to show a vastly improved defense over the last two seasons and a team that got stronger as time went on. Thus far, the defense is getting worse year after year, and besides some absolute wild-card hits like Woodyard, we've got almost nothing to build on, defensively.

Yes, we've brought in nice offensive toys with high draft picks. Again, though... that's not a surprise and not where Shanahan needed to show improvement. Our D is among the worst in the league and we're on the verge of continuing a disturbing yearly trend of starting strong and finishing horribly, only this year... Shanahan could set a league record for it. (Blowing a 3 game lead with 3 games to go.)

Spider
12-28-2008, 12:56 PM
Depends.

If Shanahan gave him the **** talent he's brought in on defense in Denver thel last decade... probably not.
If is a big word ..........

Popps
12-28-2008, 01:00 PM
If is a big word ..........

I've been a big proponent of Shanahan bringing in a DC with some clout that could stand up to him instead of yes-men like Slowik. But, there's no guarantee that it would make any difference. Rhodes didn't work out and Bates had some former success and respect around the league. He barely made it through a season under Shanahan.

baja
12-28-2008, 01:03 PM
I agree to an extent. My issue is that 100% of the improvement has come on offense and absolutely none on defense.

Did anyone ever have any doubt that Shanahan could put a good offense together? Even with marginal talent, he manages to excel. I don't think using high draft picks on offensive players and having them work out is really vindication for a decade with only one playoff win.

Shanahan needed to show a vastly improved defense over the last two seasons and a team that got stronger as time went on. Thus far, the defense is getting worse year after year, and besides some absolute wild-card hits like Woodyard, we've got almost nothing to build on, defensively.

Yes, we've brought in nice offensive toys with high draft picks. Again, though... that's not a surprise and not where Shanahan needed to show improvement. Our D is among the worst in the league and we're on the verge of continuing a disturbing yearly trend of starting strong and finishing horribly, only this year... Shanahan could set a league record for it. (Blowing a 3 game lead with 3 games to go.)

Well I've decided what I'm going to do, I going to give Shanny one more year; one more draft, one more free agency period and one more season. IF he does not show significant improvement and that means some playoff wins than I'm calling Pat and advising him to let Mike go.

elsid13
12-28-2008, 01:04 PM
Should the coach have unlimited time to rbuild? I have asked this question countless times.

This is his second rebuild. First he got a team to the AFC Championship game less then 3 years ago. Now he process of establish a team that could be force for next decade once he get the defense in place.

Popps
12-28-2008, 01:15 PM
This is his second rebuild. First he got a team to the AFC Championship game less then 3 years ago. Now he process of establish a team that could be force for next decade once he get the defense in place.

Taco has tried this one a few times and I just don't buy it.

If it's true, it means we're slated for our next playoff win in 2012. It took us 7 years after our SB to win another playoff game, so if we're in a "second rebuild," if that takes 7 years... we're looking at 3 more years at least without a playoff win.

It's nonsense. First off, we've got absolutely nothing to build on, defensively. "Rebuilds" need to have a foundation. We've got an aging, higly-paid corner, a slightly above average LB, and question marks everywhere else. Offensively, we're solid and if Cutler learns to be a leader, we're in great shape... but again, Shanahan putting together a quality offense isn't a surprise, it's expected. It's why he's in Denver.

The 2007 Dolphins/Falcons were 1-15 and 4/12, respectively. They're both likely headed to the playoffs this year. Both of those teams were put together largely through a good draft and great FA moves. Shanahan has had every chance to do the same thing... and hasn't. He has had a horrific record in free agency.

Point being, this year wasn't some sort of stepping stone in a master-plan. We have one of the worst D's in the league after having one of the worst last year. That's not a "rebuild," it's just futility.

Will we win the Superbowl next year? Sure. Maybe. It could happen, but if it does... it won't be because we're "right on track" or any such nonsense. It'll just be because Shanahan pulls his head out and put together a real NFL defense.

Again, taking a few good players with high draft picks and having them work out isn't case-closed evidence of a master-plan working flawlessly. Even the Lions can grab a couple players high in a draft and have them play well.

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 01:22 PM
apologists reign supreme............apologize for our ass whooping tonight fan boys!!!

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 01:24 PM
apologists reign supreme............apologize for our ass whooping tonight fan boys!!!

Oh shut up. You are such a bandwagon fan. Most the season you were riding Shanahans coattails. You aren't even pathetic that would be a compliment.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 01:26 PM
you're a bitch wolf you always have been and you always will be.

Cito Pelon
12-28-2008, 01:26 PM
This is his second rebuild. First he got a team to the AFC Championship game less then 3 years ago. Now he process of establish a team that could be force for next decade once he get the defense in place.

You're impressed with a 6-yr rebuild that netted one playoff win and a total ass-kicking at home in the AFCCG? And a 3 yr rebuild that has the two worst D's in Broncoland since 1967? You sure are easy to impress.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 01:28 PM
You're impressed with a 6-yr rebuild that netted one playoff win and a total ass-kicking at home in the AFCCG? And a 3 yr rebuild that has the two worst D's in Broncoland since 1967? You sure are easy to impress.

How much cock could a cito chug if a cito could chug cock?









Answer: A LOT!

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 01:28 PM
its not shannarats fault, its the wind, the sun, the sky, the barometric pressure, the wind chill, the injuries, the assistants fault, ted sundquists fault, jim bates fault, larry coyers fault, bob slowiks fault, ray rhodes fault, weird how its all those guys faults................

but it wasn't Gary Kubiak was it, that was all Shannamansion wasn't it fanboys??? enjoy tonight, rationalize what has happened to our club, to our once proud franchise as we finish off our biggest choke in franchise history!!!

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 01:30 PM
its not shannarats fault, its the wind, the sun, the sky, the barometric pressure, the wind chill, the injuries, the assistants fault, ted sundquists fault, jim bates fault, larry coyers fault, bob slowiks fault, ray rhodes fault, weird how its all those guys faults................

but it wasn't Gary Kubiak was it, that was all Shannamansion wasn't it fanboys??? enjoy tonight, rationalize what has happened to our club, to our once proud franchise as we finish off our biggest choke in franchise history!!!

fanboys?

2 weeks ago you were on your knees for him. then, in that time span, you did another 180. you're a douche with no credibility or excuse. you were just waiting for the boo birds so you could pile on and if he wins tonight, you'll disappear. AGAIN.

Archer81
12-28-2008, 01:30 PM
its not shannarats fault, its the wind, the sun, the sky, the barometric pressure, the wind chill, the injuries, the assistants fault, ted sundquists fault, jim bates fault, larry coyers fault, bob slowiks fault, ray rhodes fault, weird how its all those guys faults................

but it wasn't Gary Kubiak was it, that was all Shannamansion wasn't it fanboys??? enjoy tonight, rationalize what has happened to our club, to our once proud franchise as we finish off our biggest choke in franchise history!!!



Cry louder, I am sure bitching about it online will get him fired.


:Broncos:

Spider
12-28-2008, 01:32 PM
fanboys?

2 weeks ago you were on your knees for him. then, in that time span, you did another 180. you're a douche with no credibility or excuse. you were just waiting for the boo birds so you could pile on and if he wins tonight, you'll disappear. AGAIN.

Bipolar is a bitch

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 01:34 PM
choking a 3 game lead with 3 to play is a bitch

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 01:35 PM
choking a 3 game lead with 3 to play is a b****

So care to explain your earlier comments of praise to Shanahan? Before the IR list reached 17 players? Just curious why you are back off the wagon?

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 01:35 PM
choking a 3 game lead with 3 to play is a b****

what happened in that two weeks?

Carolina on the road? Can't imagine that was a huge shock.

Buffallo at home with Trent back? Upset yes, but hardly a huge one.

So that made you go from "Hail the mastermind" to "Fire the rat"?

You're a ****ing joke, dude. I genuinely feel sorry for your genetic composition and hope you never reproduce.

Popps
12-28-2008, 01:37 PM
Again, not that cool heads ever prevail on a message board.... but this just isn't a black and white issue. I really like Shanahan and have defended him ad nauseam around here. But, at a certain point... you have to start looking at what's best for the organization and sometimes things run their course.

Anything short of a win today and a strong showing against Indy and I'd look at this season as somewhat of a failure. Not from a record-perspective... I predicted we'd finish 9-7. But, from an organizational standpoint. The defense got worse and we appear to be doing the old Shanahan fizzle as the season winds down, here. That's the one thing I hoped we could avoid.

bloodsunday
12-28-2008, 01:40 PM
Look, you can't begrudge the rest of the world because they hold Mike Shanahan to some kind of a standard. Any other city in the country... and Shanahan would have been gone at the end of last season.

I like Shanahan and hope he pulls it together. I just don't confuse that with thinking he deserves the job at this point based on performance, because any other coach would have been fired.

This whole thread is based on perceptions. I don't believe for one second that Shanahan would have been fired in "any other city". Yes there are some "win now" owners that like to fire guys every 3 - 4 years, but those teams rarely have any staying power. The teams that have the most sustained success usually have the most continuity in personnel, front-office, and coaches.

I think Shanahan has received the "continuity" message as evident by building more through the draft and keeping on Slowik (regardless of what you think of him). He also reserved himself from spending all the money in Bowlen's pocket book on over-priced defensive players this offseason. If anything I think this season has shown us that we can win with young guys on D (Bell, Larsen, Woodyard, etc...) But we now have a potent offense with a ton of experience playing together.

I do think a little patience will pay off soon for this team. It seems to me that no matter the outcome tonight, San Diego is trending downward. They are getting older (LT, Jamal Williams, Antonio Gates) and their core players are starting to demand $$$$ (Michael Turner, Merriman, and Sproles). KC and Oakland look hopeless. So with some smart moves and PATIENCE Denver could be the team to beat in this division for a 3 - 5 year run.

If this team wins tonight, they'll likely get hammered by Peyton (let's be honest). But they'll be "ahead of schedule" with such a young roster.

All that said, it's double-edged sword with Shanahan because he has kept this team "competitive" and "respectable". What's more, each season seems to leave us thinking next year is the year! What makes it worse, we see teams like Atlanta, Miami, and Green Bay last year show a one year turnaround is possible. However, since their debuts, Sean Peyton, Lovie Smith, and Mike McCarthy have struggled mightly. I predict here and now that Atlanta and Miami will have a terrible time repeating their success next year. I'd be surprised if either of them makes the playoffs.

But hey, let's give em a chance before we write the "State of the Broncos Address"! They shocked us in Atlanta and NY. It's not impossible.

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 01:41 PM
lol, rev, what changed?

ummmmmmmmmm, how about the biggest choke job in broncos history?
thats probably my starting point.

how come this guys teams can't finish a season? it happens time and time again. its getting old. teams know we fade late, we get run over, we don't tackle, we are soft as charmin, yet all the fanboys defend it, year after year!

not me, i call a spade a spade! i am desperate for a team that plays hard, tackles, hits people in the mouth, more guts than flash.

justify your shannahan religion rev, he loves you too! he has a room reserved for you in his rathole!

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 01:41 PM
Again, not that cool heads ever prevail on a message board.... but this just isn't a black and white issue. I really like Shanahan and have defended him ad nauseam around here. But, at a certain point... you have to start looking at what's best for the organization and sometimes things run their course.

Anything short of a win today and a strong showing against Indy and I'd look at this season as somewhat of a failure. Not from a record-perspective... I predicted we'd finish 9-7. But, from an organizational standpoint. The defense got worse and we appear to be doing the old Shanahan fizzle as the season winds down, here. That's the one thing I hoped we could avoid.

Why not wait till June and see if the D got appropriate attention throughout the draft and FA? If not, and if it sucks again next season, I'm sure a LOT of people will have LEGITIMATE gripes.

Until then, other issues needed to be addressed. IE: Protecting the franchise QB through weapons and linemen. You'd be hardpressed to find a viable defensive FA, realistically priced, that we passed on.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 01:42 PM
lol, rev, what changed?

ummmmmmmmmm, how about the biggest choke job in broncos history?
thats probably my starting point.

how come this guys teams can't finish a season? it happens time and time again. its getting old. teams know we fade late, we get run over, we don't tackle, we are soft as charmin, yet all the fanboys defend it, year after year!

not me, i call a spade a spade! i am desperate for a team that plays hard, tackles, hits people in the mouth, more guts than flash.

justify your shannahan religion rev, he loves you too! he has a room reserved for you in his rathole!

You didnt answer my question at all.

Nice deflection.

PS. The "can't finish a season" is a myth. Just as often as not, Den has finished stronger than it started under Mike.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Quit wasting your time on the bitch rev.

Popps
12-28-2008, 01:46 PM
Why not wait till June and see if the D got appropriate attention throughout the draft and FA? If not, and if it sucks again next season, I'm sure a LOT of people will have LEGITIMATE gripes.

Until then, other issues needed to be addressed. IE: Protecting the franchise QB through weapons and linemen. You'd be hardpressed to find a viable defensive FA, realistically priced, that we passed on.

I'd agree with that, though some might say THIS year was his year to prove he was serious about putting a defense on the field and what did he give us? Slowik, Marlon McCree and Boss Bailey.

I'm not calling for his head. I'm on exactly the plan you stated. (The 1-year plan.) But, what I'm saying is that I DO understand why some people aren't willing to give him another chance. There's a good enough pool of evidence out there for some people to be fed up with this same thing year after year.
(Fading as the season goes on and horrible defense.)

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 01:48 PM
NEWSFLASH..............

THE GUY GUARANTEED THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR!

how the fanboys forget................ignorance is bliss.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 01:51 PM
Here are the reasons :

ONE playoff win in the last ten years.

Good point here, however, one playoff win in the last 10 years isn't due to lack of trying and preparation on behalf of Shanahan. Whats key for Shanahan is that he had Denver in the AFC title game 3 years ago! Since that time over the last 2.5 years, Mike has been grooming his Nbr one 2006 Franchise QB to take Denver to the SB.

Unable to win the division with 3 games lead.

Gotta disagree with here. A young inexperience team that has no running game due to injuries to 7 RB's; its easy to see why this Bronco team couldn't hold a 3 game lead to win the division. Imagine the Giants, Titans, Carolina, win-lost record had they all suffered the same amount of season ending injuries to their RB's.

Doesn't give importance to Defense.

You make another good point to a degree. However, drafting and selecting talent via FA isn't an exact science for most teams and Denver is no different. There are only a hand full of organizations who seem to nail down bringing in good Defensive players. Teams who come to mind who stay stocked with great defensive talents are the Giants, Tampa Bay, Ravens, and Eagles. So it would make since for Bowlen and Shanahan to try and do what the the aforementioned teams have done with building top 10-15 Defense's.

Cant motivate the players during game day.

When players make the type of salaries today.....they should be motivated themselves or fellow teammates should be motivating each other! Actually, Shanahan does motivate his players..."They either perform or they won't be Broncos for very long"

Loses in must-win games.

Once again, you have a valid point, however, Shanahan's overall record speaks for it self. Mike has avg nearly 10 wins a season over the last 14 years since 1995! In fact, Shanahan will either be 139-85 or 138-86 after tonights game. Owners in the NFL would be lining up to hire Shanahan should Bowlen listen to some fans and fired Shanahan. You'd best believe that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Shanahan

Can you tell me the reason why he should still be the Coach??

Can you tell me who Bowlen could hire that would guarantee Fans Like You what your hoping and dreaming for in a coach???? Since the 2005, Shanahan has quietly put a real nice nucleus of players to make some noise over the next four to six years, and Bowlen just so happens to back Shanahan 100% thus far. So I don't know what yourself and other Fans who are calling for Shanahan's firing are going to do. Have you considered finding another team to ROOT FOR!!! You may want to re-consider changing teams.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 01:52 PM
I'd agree with that, though some might say THIS year was his year to prove he was serious about putting a defense on the field and what did he give us? Slowik, Marlon McCree and Boss Bailey.

I'm not calling for his head. I'm on exactly the plan you stated. (The 1-year plan.) But, what I'm saying is that I DO understand why some people aren't willing to give him another chance. There's a good enough pool of evidence out there for some people to be fed up with this same thing year after year.
(Fading as the season goes on and horrible defense.)

Find better that were available? Especially for the price. Granted, I AM officially on the "wish we'd kept Bates" fence... might be the ONLY one, but oh well.

Secondly, those people aren't bright. You HAVE to admire someone on the verge of the SB at the AFCCG to have the nuts to say, "This won't do" and scrap the whole ****ing thing. Since then, it's been ONE REBUILD around Jay, and surrounding him with young, potent talent... mission accomplished.

My gripe WILL be if the attention is not now focused on the defense. As it should be for any sane fan. The O is SB caliber AND young and improving. The D needs jesus.

TonyR
12-28-2008, 01:57 PM
I don't believe for one second that Shanahan would have been fired in "any other city".

Name just one other coach who has lasted this long with so little playoff success. When you're done looking let us know if you are starting to "believe".

bloodsunday
12-28-2008, 02:00 PM
Name just one other coach who has lasted this long with so little playoff success. When you're done looking let us know if you are starting to "believe".

How about Bill Cowher? His final few seasons turned out ok, didn't they? He was the bridesmaid for 10 years before he busted through. There were some lean years in there and multiple AFC Championship losses at home... kinda like San Diego fired Marty for.

baja
12-28-2008, 02:04 PM
NEWSFLASH..............

THE GUY GUARANTEED THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR!

how the fanboys forget................ignorance is bliss.

did he know he'd have 17 players on ir

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:06 PM
How about Bill Cowher? His final few seasons turned out ok, didn't they? He was the bridesmaid for 10 years before he busted through.

I didn't look it up but I can guarantee Cowher won more than 1 playoff game in any 10 year period.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 02:07 PM
did he know he'd have 17 players on ir


Wolf didn't think that far ahead when he made that post she just enjoys crying. :~ohyah!:

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:07 PM
Name just one other coach who has lasted this long with so little playoff success. When you're done looking let us know if you are starting to "believe".

Jeff Fischer seems to be working out alright.

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 02:07 PM
did he know he'd have 17 players on ir

My how the haters forget! This team should be fighting for the number one pick not the division with 17 God Damn players on IR. 7 RB's thats 41% of the injuries and yet they are 8-7 at this time. Teams fade when they are as injured as this team. Its pathetic how people like Wolf, and this EmpireOrange hack, and others ignore that fact yet call us fanboys when we don't acknowledge their drivel.

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 02:08 PM
I didn't look it up but I can guarantee Cowher won more than 1 playoff game in any 10 year period.

I understand you have a huge hard on for Cowher but he is a level BELOW Shanahan and would hurt this team more than letting Shanny go.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 02:11 PM
I didn't look it up but I can guarantee Cowher won more than 1 playoff game in any 10 year period.

True but he has just as many playoff loses and answer this why is it so important to make the playoffs and not have a chance to advance past the first game? does it mean something? just curious why it's something to hang your hat on when you know your going no further than game one.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 02:11 PM
NEWSFLASH..............

THE GUY GUARANTEED THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR!

how the fanboys forget................ignorance is bliss.

I for one am glad Shanny "GUARANTEED THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR!".....What! did you expect Shanhan to say he has a SUCK AZZ team and mail it all in before the season started?

Shanahan gave his guarantee b/c he truly believed the 2008 Broncos had the talent to do so. Next year I expect Shanahan to GUARANTEE ANOTHER PLAYOFF for the 2009 Broncos!!! Anything less would be totally unaceptable.

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:12 PM
I understand you have a huge hard on for Cowher but he is a level BELOW Shanahan and would hurt this team more than letting Shanny go.

No, I'm actually not all that big of a Cowher fan. But I wouldn't complain if Mr. Bowlen brought him in. I just read today that Parcells might opt out in Miami. Bring him over with a good, young coach that Parcells picks and there would be some excitement in Denver for sure!

Man-Goblin
12-28-2008, 02:13 PM
There is no freaking way Cowher is going west for anyone.

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:14 PM
True but he has just as many playoff loses and answer this why is it so important to make the playoffs and not have a chance to advance past the first game? does it mean something? just curious why it's something to hang your hat on when you know your going no further than game one.

Well, if you don't make the playoffs you don't have a shot at a championship. And if you can't win some playoff games you probably don't belong there. I don't know of a better way to judge coaches than playoff wins.

bloodsunday
12-28-2008, 02:14 PM
I didn't look it up but I can guarantee Cowher won more than 1 playoff game in any 10 year period.

yes but he got the dreaded "Marty" reputation -- couldn't win the big one. Many owners would have fired him after home AFC Champ losses to Denver, Indy, and New England.

What were their prospects exacly with Tommy Maddox? They didn't give up on Cowher. That's the point.

Since you have the "absolute" answers, how many wins does Shanny need to save his job? How many years were acceptable? What's the magic number?

Let's not forget that one win was with Jake Plummer at QB (something nearly every media person in the universe laughed at) and it was the NE machine's first play off loss. That was a huge win.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 02:16 PM
True but he has just as many playoff loses and answer this why is it so important to make the playoffs and not have a chance to advance past the first game? does it mean something? just curious why it's something to hang your hat on when you know your going no further than game one.

If you don't get to the playoffs at all you have ZERO chance of doing anything there.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 02:18 PM
Well looking at the numbers over time it seems we are going into our upswing ( look at the pattern)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ShanMi0.htm

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 02:19 PM
If you don't get to the playoffs at all you have ZERO chance of doing anything there.


Well i would rather have a shot at going deep instead 1 and done. ( just sayin)

Hercules Rockefeller
12-28-2008, 02:20 PM
NEWSFLASH..............

THE GUY GUARANTEED THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR!

how the fanboys forget................ignorance is bliss.

He guaranteed the playoffs IF they remained healthy.

Never let a complete and accurate quote get in the way of your attempted point.

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:20 PM
Since you have the "absolute" answers, how many wins does Shanny need to save his job? How many years were acceptable? What's the magic number?


I certainly don't have the "absolute" answers. But I think one playoff win in 10 years gives one the right to criticize Mike Shanahan. As Popps has so accurately stated in this thread the better, more rational argument is against Shanahan at this point. I'm okay with the "we're young and injured so give him one more year" mentality, but I'm not okay with the blind followership and "how dare you question Mike Shanahan, who's out there that's better?" mentality. The latter is sad and pathetic.

EmpireOrange
12-28-2008, 02:21 PM
My how the haters forget! This team should be fighting for the number one pick not the division with 17 God Damn players on IR. 7 RB's thats 41% of the injuries and yet they are 8-7 at this time. Teams fade when they are as injured as this team. Its pathetic how people like Wolf, and this EmpireOrange hack, and others ignore that fact yet call us fanboys when we don't acknowledge their drivel.

For the love of boobies how the standards in this town has dropped. "Oh lordy lordy there has been sooo many injuries..." Take a look at New England. Look at them! Belichick has had more injuries, more significant injuries mind you, than Denver and they are 11 and freaking 5 in a tough division. Shanahan is joke and it saddens me how this town has sold its soul just for a few super bowl wins. We don't expect to compete anymore we just look for excuses for Shanny to stay. He has made a joke out of this city and the Broncos. If I had known that Bronco fans would have to live through a decade of horrible football I would have never signed on to the back to back wins. effe that. Shanahan has more than been repaid for the two rings. Its time to become the Denver Broncos again. Its time to get back to the south stands and demand Bronco football again. Thanks for everything Shanny but don't let the door hit yaw where the good lord split yaw!

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 02:22 PM
He guaranteed the playoffs IF they remained healthy.

Never let a complete and accurate quote get in the way of your attempted point.


See that's where wolf gets completely lost with no chance of finding her way out... :~ohyah!:

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:25 PM
Take a look at New England. Look at them! Belichick has had more injuries, more significant injuries mind you, than Denver and they are 11 and freaking 5 in a tough division.

Well, we have more injuries but losing Brady is HUGE, along with some other starters including Maroney, A. Thomas, Harrison, etc. I agree with your overall point. I hate Belichick but the guy is getting it done. Again.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:26 PM
I certainly don't have the "absolute" answers. But I think one playoff win in 10 years gives one the right to criticize Mike Shanahan. As Popps has so accurately stated in this thread the better, more rational argument is against Shanahan at this point. I'm okay with the "we're young and injured so give him one more year" mentality, but I'm not okay with the blind followership and "how dare you question Mike Shanahan, who's out there that's better?" mentality. The latter is sad and pathetic.

For people who haven't had the mental capacity to follow the big picture, then yes, you're absolutely right.

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 02:27 PM
Oh God if Parcells opts out and Bowlen brings him here then brings Cowher I would throw up and remove my name from the Season Ticket list. Thank God Bowlen isn't that freaking stupid. Parcells has zero loyalty that much is becoming apparent.

Broncojef
12-28-2008, 02:27 PM
I could care less about wins/losses rebuilding or not just please have some heart, some fight and don't get blown out and act like you don't care. It bothered me watching our guys come off the field last week losing as they did with some players all smiles and joking going into the locker room. This team needs a fire in their belly and some leadership that I have yet too see. Al Wilson would have clocked the dudes smiling after that performance.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:28 PM
Oh God if Parcells opts out and Bowlen brings him here then brings Cowher I would throw up and remove my name from the Season Ticket list. Thank God Bowlen isn't that freaking stupid. Parcells has zero loyalty that much is becoming apparent.

Wait... what?

Where the **** did that come from, dude?

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 02:30 PM
Now state the differences between the broncos talent pool vs new englands and let's not forget the shanahan didn't let the team tank being where we are at is damn good based on the circumstances.


ps: **** belicheat

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:32 PM
Oh God if Parcells opts out and Bowlen brings him here then brings Cowher I would throw up and remove my name from the Season Ticket list. Thank God Bowlen isn't that freaking stupid. Parcells has zero loyalty that much is becoming apparent.

I don't think you have to worry about that happening. And Parcells doesn't have any loyalty, you're right, but the guy does build a roster better and faster than probably anyone in the business. Most recently he built the foundation of the current Cowboys team and he turned around the Dolphins in one year.

EmpireOrange
12-28-2008, 02:38 PM
Well, we have more injuries but losing Brady is HUGE, along with some other starters including Maroney, A. Thomas, Harrison, etc. I agree with your overall point. I hate Belichick but the guy is getting it done. Again.

If I am not mistaken, I think the AFC-East blog on ESPN touched on this last week, I think New England has started like 45 or 46 different starters. Broncos have started 42. I know New England is tied for second in the league for most injuries to starters according to the stat

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 02:40 PM
Now state the differences between the broncos talent pool vs new englands and let's not forget the shanahan didn't let the team tank being where we are at is damn good based on the circumstances.


ps: **** belicheat


who drafted the talent dumb ass

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:44 PM
who drafted the talent dumb ass

Yeah, I'm not sure where he's going with that either. When did Belichick "tank", exactly? They lost the best QB in the NFL for the season, their starting RB, and numerous other starters have been in and out of the lineup, and they go 11-5. Hard not to respect that, and if you don't you should find something else to do on Sunday afternoons because you don't get it.

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 02:46 PM
I don't think you have to worry about that happening. And Parcells doesn't have any loyalty, you're right, but the guy does build a roster better and faster than probably anyone in the business. Most recently he built the foundation of the current Cowboys team and he turned around the Dolphins in one year.

You are absolutely right on the drafting. But that isn't the knock on Denver right now. From an outsiders viewpoint I think the Goodmans are doing a great job. So why bring in Parcels when that looks to be getting better?

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 02:47 PM
Wait... what?

Where the **** did that come from, dude?

TonyR said he read Parcels is considering Opting out in Miami. He said bring him in and bring on Cowher. Thats where that came from.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 02:48 PM
Drafting is a crap shoot no matter who you pick.

Spider
12-28-2008, 02:49 PM
good thing Bowlen isnt an Idiot . if he listened to half of you Idiots , we would be out pacing the Raiders in Head Coaches ............

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:50 PM
TonyR said he read Parcels is considering Opting out in Miami. He said bring him in and bring on Cowher. Thats where that came from.

Thanks, dude. Hadn't heard.

As a "Defensive Consultant", I could live with. Any more and I'd pretty ****ing disgusted.

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 02:50 PM
no, drafting is the difference between winning and losing, talent matters, it always has and always will............

the patriots have outdrafted us, they have signed better free agents, thus they have more talent.............

thats why they can survive brady going down in week 1

what if jay cutler went down in week 1 for us?

getting the point yet?

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:51 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure where he's going with that either. When did Belichick "tank", exactly? They lost the best QB in the NFL for the season, their starting RB, and numerous other starters have been in and out of the lineup, and they go 11-5. Hard not to respect that, and if you don't you should find something else to do on Sunday afternoons because you don't get it.

I don't think anyone's said they don't respect that...

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:52 PM
I don't believe for one second that Shanahan would have been fired in "any other city". Yes there are some "win now" owners that like to fire guys every 3 - 4 years, but those teams rarely have any staying power. The teams that have the most sustained success usually have the most continuity in personnel, front-office, and coaches.


COULD GRUDEN BE OUT IN TAMPA?
Posted by Mike Florio on December 28, 2008, 4:37 p.m. EST
We’ve got no hard information on which to base this one.

Yet.

But the reality is that, after seeing a 9-3 start disintegrate into a 9-7 finish and no playoff appearance, Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden doesn’t seem to be nearly as secure in his position as he was a month ago.

The team’s late-season skid coincided with news of the departure of long-time defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin, who’ll be joining his son, Lane, at the University of Tennessee. Ironically, that’s the same school to which Gruden had been linked via rumor and speculation after Phil Fulmer announced that he wouldn’t be returning next year.

So how about Notre Dame? Even though the Irish have declared that coach Charlie Weis will be back in 2009 and despite a 49-21 win over Hawaii to cap the season, we could see the powers-that-be in South Bend trying to finagle an upgrade, if in the aftermath of a season of disappointment and failure Gruden decides that the time is right to hurl “F” bombs under the watchful eye of Touchdown Jesus.

It’s pure speculation on our part, but we wouldn’t be surprised at all if, at some point in the next week or two, the media is shocked to learn that Weis is out and Gruden is in at ND.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/28/could-gruden-be-out-in-tampa/

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:54 PM
no, drafting is the difference between winning and losing, talent matters, it always has and always will............

the patriots have outdrafted us, they have signed better free agents, thus they have more talent.............

thats why they can survive brady going down in week 1

what if jay cutler went down in week 1 for us?

getting the point yet?

The difference is you comparing completely different phases of a successful team's evolution.

The Pats just blew their wad loading up last year to make their 18-oh so short run, and still had a stacked team this season even without tommy terrific.

Denver is on it's reload run and only has a potent offense.

It's far from fair to compare the two at two entirely different stages of their evolution. It'd be like comparing them in 6 years when Jay is on his way to HoF, the offense has broken records, a tough defense, but New Englands key players have retired and they're struggling for wildcards. It's irrelevant to the conversation.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:55 PM
COULD GRUDEN BE OUT IN TAMPA?
Posted by Mike Florio on December 28, 2008, 4:37 p.m. EST
We’ve got no hard information on which to base this one.

Yet.

But the reality is that, after seeing a 9-3 start disintegrate into a 9-7 finish and no playoff appearance, Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden doesn’t seem to be nearly as secure in his position as he was a month ago.

The team’s late-season skid coincided with news of the departure of long-time defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin, who’ll be joining his son, Lane, at the University of Tennessee. Ironically, that’s the same school to which Gruden had been linked via rumor and speculation after Phil Fulmer announced that he wouldn’t be returning next year.

So how about Notre Dame? Even though the Irish have declared that coach Charlie Weis will be back in 2009 and despite a 49-21 win over Hawaii to cap the season, we could see the powers-that-be in South Bend trying to finagle an upgrade, if in the aftermath of a season of disappointment and failure Gruden decides that the time is right to hurl “F” bombs under the watchful eye of Touchdown Jesus.

It’s pure speculation on our part, but we wouldn’t be surprised at all if, at some point in the next week or two, the media is shocked to learn that Weis is out and Gruden is in at ND.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/28/could-gruden-be-out-in-tampa/

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

So fire Mike because of his talent evaluations... but HIRE Gruden!

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

elsid13
12-28-2008, 02:56 PM
good thing Bowlen isnt an Idiot . if he listened to half of you Idiots , we would be out pacing the Raiders in Head Coaches ............

Spider

Hotrod and myself decide that we are going to convince to Bowlen to fire all the coaching and personal staff and decide on everything via internet voting.

Choices for the first play tonight

1. Cutler throw at Rivers head with Nate's Helmet
2. dive up the middle with Kory Lichtensteiger as the RB
3. Lepsis share his "stuff" with the entire Chugger's defense

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 02:56 PM
Gruden is overrated without Kiffin running his D

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 02:57 PM
TonyR said he read Parcels is considering Opting out in Miami. He said bring him in and bring on Cowher. Thats where that came from.

While I agree with TonyR's position on Shanny (obviously) I agree with you that I do not think that Cowher is that great of a coach. The structure is already in place for PIT--play great defense, pair it with a great running game and compete for the division year in and year out.The front office puts those pieces in place and the coach simply manages them-- Mike Tomlin's success is testament to my theory. Shanahan needs to have his GM/president role removed this off season at the VERY least. Slowik will not be fired or resign either--but I can dream: My choice for d--coordinator:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/philadelphiaeagles/coaches?coaType=head&team=PHI


Sean McDermott



Secondary/Safeties; born March 21, 1974, Omaha, Neb. Safety William & Mary 1994-97. No pro playing experience. College coach: William & Mary 1998. Pro coach: Joined Eagles in 1998.

TonyR
12-28-2008, 02:57 PM
So fire Mike because of his talent evaluations... but HIRE Gruden!


No, no, no. Read the post I quoted above my reference to the Gruden story. I have no particular interenst in Gruden. I'm merely pointing out how owners/fan bases lose patience with coaches when they don't deliver.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:58 PM
Gruden is overrated without Kiffin running his D

No ****.

So is supreme your respect for Pioli or Belicek?

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 02:59 PM
No, no, no. Read the post I quoted above my reference to the Gruden story. I have no particular interenst in Gruden. I'm merely pointing out how owners/fan bases lose patience with coaches when they don't deliver.

Gruden has also not delivered any potential promise of delivering. The dude is running a mix of Garcia and Griese.

If he had a young Jay Cutler... who he's sending to the pro bowl in his 2nd starting season... I'd imagine they'd be much more apt to give him more time.

He owes Monte his dick, anyways.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:00 PM
No, no, no. Read the post I quoted above my reference to the Gruden story. I have no particular interenst in Gruden. I'm merely pointing out how owners/fan bases lose patience with coaches when they don't deliver.

EXACTLY--80% of the people on this board qualify as FANBOYS for sure. Just see the previous poll created in a previous thread. Notice how Andy Reid's team shows up in a home game that matters (FOR BOTH TEAMS)? I only hope that we fair equally as well tonight on the road.

TonyR
12-28-2008, 03:00 PM
TonyR said he read Parcels is considering Opting out in Miami. He said bring him in and bring on Cowher. Thats where that came from.

For the record I didn't say "bring on Cowher", but did say I'd be okay with it.

elsid13
12-28-2008, 03:01 PM
While I agree with TonyR's position on Shanny (obviously) I agree with you that I do not think that Cowher is that great of a coach. The structure is already in place for PIT--play great defense, pair it with a great running game and compete for the division year in and year out.The front office puts those pieces in place and the coach simply manages them-- Mike Tomlin's success is testament to my theory. Shanahan needs to have his GM/president role removed this off season at the VERY least. Slowik will not be fired or resign either--but I can dream: My choice for d--coordinator:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/philadelphiaeagles/coaches?coaType=head&team=PHI


Sean McDermott




Secondary/Safeties; born March 21, 1974, Omaha, Neb. Safety William & Mary 1994-97. No pro playing experience. College coach: William & Mary 1998. Pro coach: Joined Eagles in 1998.

Another guy I went to school with. He lost a lot of hair.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR
No, no, no. Read the post I quoted above my reference to the Gruden story. I have no particular interenst in Gruden. I'm merely pointing out how owners/fan bases lose patience with coaches when they don't deliver.


We are NOT florida fans nor do we have a tampa bay front office ( thank god)

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 03:02 PM
EXACTLY--80% of the people on this board qualify as FANBOYS for sure. Just see the previous poll created in a previous post. Notice how Andy Reid's team shows up in a home game that matters (FOR BOTH TEAMS)? I only hope that we fair equally as well tonight on the road.

Notice it'd been Jim Johnson's team that's really showed up, dude.

TonyR
12-28-2008, 03:04 PM
Notice how Andy Reid's team shows up in a home game that matters (FOR BOTH TEAMS)? I only hope that we fair equally as well tonight on the road.

I'm no Andy Reid fan but they are getting it done. Wade Phillips, on the other hand, could be in big trouble. I'd love to see him as our DC next year but I don't see it happening.

Spider
12-28-2008, 03:07 PM
Spider

Hotrod and myself decide that we are going to convince to Bowlen to fire all the coaching and personal staff and decide on everything via internet voting.

Choices for the first play tonight

1. Cutler throw at Rivers head with Nate's Helmet
2. dive up the middle with Kory Lichtensteiger as the RB
3. Lepsis share his "stuff" with the entire Chugger's defense
LOL and sad to say thats a better plan then what some of these geniuses have came up with

elsid13
12-28-2008, 03:10 PM
LOL and sad to say thats a better plan then what some of these geniuses have came up with

Personnel I'm voting for option 3. I really hope it wins.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:10 PM
Notice it'd been Jim Johnson's team that's really showed up, dude.

If you want to take that perspective--that the Eagles defense is the best unit on the team--how did our best unit do last week AT HOME in a game that mattered to us? and who is responsible for that Unit?..........

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 03:13 PM
If you want to take that perspective--that the Eagles defense is the best unit on the team--how did our best unit do last week AT HOME in a game that mattered to us? and who is responsible for that Unit?............500 + yards and 23 points.

532 offensive yards and 23 points against the buff defense averaging 331.7 ypg (including the Denver game) and 21.9 ppg is a disappointment to you?!?

go_broncos
12-28-2008, 03:15 PM
I fear that we will be losing today like Dallas.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 03:18 PM
I fear that we will be losing today like Dallas.


Love your enthusiasm.._i_O_i_

NFLBRONCO
12-28-2008, 03:19 PM
I fear that we will be losing today like Dallas.

Its our injuries is why this will happen not coaching they are above fault.

yerner
12-28-2008, 03:19 PM
I fear that we will be losing today like Dallas.

I fear you will die early of repeated self fisting.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:21 PM
532 offensive yards and 23 points against the buff defense averaging 331.7 ypg (including the Denver game) and 21.9 ppg is a disappointment to you?!?

Sorry, I didn't realize that we had locked up homefield throughout the playoffs based upon our yards/gm. Luckily we were able to hold off Kubes and the Texans for that #1 seed. I cannot wait to face NO in the SB this year........

TonyR
12-28-2008, 03:23 PM
I fear that we will be losing today like Dallas.

There are similarities for sure. Division game, on the road, revenge, etc. The thing in our favor is that the more talented team is losing!

Man, Romo is good but he just can't win the big games. He has "early Peyton Manning career syndrome", only worse. And Jerry Jones will probably reconsider his vote of confidence for Phillips after this debacle!

rastaman
12-28-2008, 03:24 PM
EXACTLY--80% of the people on this board qualify as FANBOYS for sure. Just see the previous poll created in a previous thread. Notice how Andy Reid's team shows up in a home game that matters (FOR BOTH TEAMS)? I only hope that we fair equally as well tonight on the road.

So if 80% of the people on this board are Fanboys!!! Does that leave the 20% of the fans as "Band Wagon-Fair Weather Fans!????

Since you are not a Fanboy!!! That would make you a "Band-Wagon-Fair Weather Fan!????

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 03:24 PM
I fear you will die early of repeated self fisting.


Sadly he pulled through the last assault. :P

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:25 PM
I fear that we will be losing today like Dallas.

If we do, Season ticket holders need to take a stand. That is the only way that Bowlen will listen to us. Unfortunately, as evidenced by 80% of the populous here, those Season ticket holders would never take such a stand. Hopefully, the CO economy takes such a nose dive that the vast majority cannot renew--and those of us who truly have a feel for what Denver once was will get a chance to let our voices be heard instead of the wine & cheese sheep that currently inhabit Invesco (and some sheep on this board).

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 03:26 PM
Sorry, I didn't realize that we had locked up homefield throughout the playoffs based upon our yards/gm. Luckily we were able to hold off Kubes and the Texans for that #1 seed. I cannot wait to face NO in the SB this year........

That was far from the point of your post/point you were trying to make in complete vain, isn't it?

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:26 PM
So if 80% of the people on this board are Fanboys!!! Does that leave the 20% of the fans as "Band Wagon-Fair Weather Fans!????

Since you are not a Fanboy!!! That would make you a "Band-Wagon-Fair Weather Fan!????

I have DENVER BRONCOS tatooed on my COCK. And I had to add the horse head logo just so it was competely covered. :thumbsup:

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 03:28 PM
I have DENVER BRONCOS tatooed on my COCK. And I had to add the horse head logo just so it was competely covered. :thumbsup:



So you just like being a debbie downer on the weekends?

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:28 PM
That was far from the point of your post/point you were trying to make in complete vain, isn't it?

What? Our best unit underproduced as usual. 500+ yards of offense and 23 points. Your post made my point for me. Our best unit didn't get the job done.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 03:28 PM
There are similarities for sure. Division game, on the road, revenge, etc. The thing in our favor is that the more talented team is losing!

Man, Romo is good but he just can't win the big games. He has "early Peyton Manning career syndrome", only worse. And Jerry Jones will probably reconsider his vote of confidence for Phillips after this debacle!

Maybe Jerry Jones would consider hiring Coach Shanahan in 2009!!!:wiggle:

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 03:29 PM
What? Our best unit underproduced as usual. 500+ yards of offense and 23 points. Your post made my point for me. Our best unit didn't get the job done.

:spit:

You're awesome.

Seriously.

Never change.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:30 PM
So you just like being a debbie downer on the weekends?

I am a Denver Broncos fan FIRST AND FOREMOST. 1 playoff win in 10 years + 1 division title in a decade= change needed--a guy can't get lucky if he nevers gets invited to the dance in the first place. And we have been playing pocket pool while the dance is going on for what is unfortunately likely to be 6 out of 10 years.

NFLBRONCO
12-28-2008, 03:30 PM
Maybe Jerry Jones would consider hiring Coach Shanahan in 2009!!!:wiggle:

It would be perfect for Shanny the team is built for SB already.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:31 PM
:spit:

You're awesome.

Seriously.

Never change.

I'm only awesome in my day job. To outwit you only requires me to have a heartbeat and a keyboard.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:32 PM
It would be perfect for Shanny the team is built for SB already.

They are a veteran laden/talented roster which Shanny has proven he can win with--SEE SF and Denver mid-late 90's.

baja
12-28-2008, 03:34 PM
So you just like being a debbie downer on the weekends? You could put that on a grain of rice and still have room for the Bill of Rights.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:35 PM
Shanny can shut me up tonight. I have been wrong once before--about Eddie Royal (I wanted DeSean Jackson) and I admitted as such.

BroncoBuff
12-28-2008, 03:35 PM
Shanny deserves a lot of criticism regardless of the outcome of this game.
Completely disagree ... if we win today, he will be a division champion without Champ Bailey, without 30 starts from the starting LBs, and without any single RB starting more than four games. That would be VERY impressive.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 03:35 PM
It would be perfect for Shanny the team is built for SB already.

Exactly!!!

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:35 PM
You could put that on a grain of rice and still have room for the Bill of Rights.

So YOU'RE the one who stole my printing press!

Popps
12-28-2008, 03:35 PM
You HAVE to admire someone on the verge of the SB at the AFCCG to have the nuts to say, "This won't do" and scrap the whole ****ing thing.


I'm not so sure about that. He's been widely criticized for how it all went down. Any serious commitment to the defense at that time may have resulted in a championship, and we STILL could have drafted a QB of the future.

Since then, it's been ONE REBUILD around Jay, and surrounding him with young, potent talent... mission accomplished.


He used a couple of high draft picks on highly regarded offensive players and those players are playing well. Again, I don't think anyone's question was with regards to his ability to put together a good offense. It's our defense that has been horrible for a decade. On that side of the ball, we're just awful and have gotten worse almost every year since the "rebuild" started.

There's certainly things to be excited about with regards to a few of our younger offensive players. But, "mission accomplished" is a bit of a stretch, imo.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/Mission-accomplished.jpg

baja
12-28-2008, 03:36 PM
I have DENVER BRONCOS tatooed on my COCK. And I had to add the horse head logo just so it was competely covered. :thumbsup:



You could put that on a grain of rice and still have room for the Bill of Rights.

Oops quoted wrong post.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 03:37 PM
I'm only awesome in my day job. To outwit you only requires me to have a heartbeat and a keyboard.

Let me break this down since you're slow.

Your point:

Denver lost vs. Buff because of Mike Shanahan's offensive unit.

------------------

Buffallo's D averaged 317 yards surrendered each game.

Denver hung up 532 on them.

That's a 68% more than they usually surrender.

We also scored more than they surrender on ave. Yet the offense "didn't get the job done".

Seriously, keep "outwitting" me. You're doing great.

BroncoBuff
12-28-2008, 03:38 PM
I don't think anyone's question was with regards to his ability to put together a good offense. It's our defense that has been horrible for a decade. On that side of the ball, we're just awful and have gotten worse almost every year since the "rebuild" started.
The other day somebody posted the league rankings of Coyer's 4 Broncos defenses, and all were Top 10. Ouch! Shanny's gotta be regretting that iring.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 03:39 PM
Shanny can shut me up tonight. I have been wrong once before--about Eddie Royal (I wanted DeSean Jackson) and I admitted as such.

Okay, lets say you get your wish and Bowlen fires Shanahan after the 2008 season. How many years are you willing to endure consecutive loosing seasons?? And I mean loosing seasons to the tune 10-14 lost games a season???? Don't say its impossible either.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 03:39 PM
I'm not so sure about that. He's been widely criticized for how it all went down. Any serious commitment to the defense at that time may have resulted in a championship, and we STILL could have drafted a QB of the future.


You're going to have to explain to me how that would've been possible. He FINALLY manipulated high enough in the draft to get the franchise QB, yet we should've got a defensive playmaker (which btw would've odds on been Bunkley who has been extremely unspectacular in a much better defense), and somehow still gotten our QBOTF?

Please outline how that's possible.


He used a couple of high draft picks on highly regarded offensive players and those players are playing well. Again, I don't think anyone's question was with regards to his ability to put together a good offense. It's our defense that has been horrible for a decade. On that side of the ball, we're just awful and have gotten worse almost every year since the "rebuild" started.

There's certainly things to be excited about with regards to a few of our younger offensive players. But, "mission accomplished" is a bit of a stretch, imo.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/Mission-accomplished.jpg

The rest I agree with... but you're cutting a process in half and saying "Uh! We're not there yet!" No ****. It's plain to everyone we're not there yet.

baja
12-28-2008, 03:40 PM
ya but we had Gold then

rastaman
12-28-2008, 03:41 PM
The other day somebody posted the league rankings of Coyer's 4 Broncos defenses, and all were Top 10. Ouch! Shanny's gotta be regretting that iring.

Well lets bring Coyer back!!!;D

Popps
12-28-2008, 03:42 PM
The other day somebody posted the league rankings of Coyer's 4 Broncos defenses, and all were Top 10. Ouch! Shanny's gotta be regretting that iring.

It wasn't the coordinator, it was the lack of real play-makers in the front seven. Though shockingly, that roster Coyer had looks like world-beaters compared to the sh#t we've had ever since.

Popps
12-28-2008, 03:43 PM
Well lets bring Coyer back!!!;D

Coyer couldn't do anything with this rag-tag bunch of slobs we have out there, either. Coyer had a fairly talented squad, in comparison.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 03:44 PM
I'm not so sure about that. He's been widely criticized for how it all went down. Any serious commitment to the defense at that time may have resulted in a championship, and we STILL could have drafted a QB of the future.



He used a couple of high draft picks on highly regarded offensive players and those players are playing well. Again, I don't think anyone's question was with regards to his ability to put together a good offense. It's our defense that has been horrible for a decade. On that side of the ball, we're just awful and have gotten worse almost every year since the "rebuild" started.

There's certainly things to be excited about with regards to a few of our younger offensive players. But, "mission accomplished" is a bit of a stretch, imo.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/Mission-accomplished.jpg


What 2nd place wasn't good enough?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 03:44 PM
For the record I didn't say "bring on Cowher", but did say I'd be okay with it.

Duly noted, sorry for the misquote.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 03:49 PM
Let me break this down since you're slow.

Your point:

Denver lost vs. Buff because of Mike Shanahan's offensive unit.

------------------

Buffallo's D averaged 317 yards surrendered each game.

Denver hung up 532 on them.

That's a 68% more than they usually surrender.

We also scored more than they surrender on ave. Yet the offense "didn't get the job done".

Seriously, keep "outwitting" me. You're doing great.

You're arguing that Andy Reid is only winning because of Jim Johnson's D. So to extrapolate that out Jim Johnson > MIKEY according to you. Not even I will go that far.

Popps
12-28-2008, 03:50 PM
The rest I agree with... but you're cutting a process in half and saying "Uh! We're not there yet!" No ****. It's plain to everyone we're not there yet.

I didn't say we should be "there," what I said was that I'm not sure we're any closer than we were one... two... and certainly not three years ago when we played in a championship game.

My point here is simply that this looks less like a "plan" to me than it does to some others here. It looks like a few good players taken high in the draft, and some decent offensive production. That's business as usual for Shanahan.

The problem is, horrible defenses also seem to be business as usual, and that's what we're faced with yet again. NO ONE will challenge the fact that our D has gotten worse, not better over the past three years. That's not a "rebuild," that's just futility.

As for how we could have gotten play-makers, that just takes a commitment. Guys like Abraham, Porter, Kearney and others have gone to new teams... along with a slew of other lesser-known but very productive players. We were busy signing cornerbacks and wide receivers, and plugging in the Sam Adams of the world instead of making a commitment to the front seven.

I'm not saying we had to NOT draft Cutler. I'm obviously thrilled that we did.
But, there's simply no evidence that what's happening on defense right now is part of any "plan." If so, it's a miserable failure and that plan should be scrapped immediately.

We do not have ONE single potential young star on the defensive side of the ball outside of Woodyard, and we can't even find a place to put him because we'd have to more our supposed "star" DJ Williams.

Not trying to be negative here. I love watching the team run up the score when things are going right. But, we've been needed to do the same thing for so long and just refuse to do it. Now we're faced with winning a must-win game without being able to play playoff football, yet again.

Popps
12-28-2008, 03:51 PM
What 2nd place wasn't good enough?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2008&seasonType=REG

Wow, man. You gotta read my post again. Seriously. That response is way off base.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 03:53 PM
Wow, man. You gotta read my post again. Seriously. That response is way off base.



Opps i mis read..

TonyR
12-28-2008, 03:54 PM
Buffallo's D averaged 317 yards surrendered each game.

Denver hung up 532 on them.

That's a 68% more than they usually surrender.

We also scored more than they surrender on ave. Yet the offense "didn't get the job done".


Well, to be fair, yards don't win games. I agree you can't blame the offense for the loss but I agree that the offense didn't put enough points on the board. Scoring slightly more than the average they give up is, well, slightly better than average. And our offense has to do better than "slightly better than average" in order for us to win because our defense is so god awful.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 03:55 PM
It wasn't the coordinator, it was the lack of real play-makers in the front seven. Though shockingly, that roster Coyer had looks like world-beaters compared to the sh#t we've had ever since.

Sounds like the Broncos had a chance to build an indentity on defense by keeping Coyer.

If I recall correctly wasn't its Coyer's Defense that got Denver to the AFC title game in 2005?

Timing is everything, while Coyer had Denver's defense in the top 10 in the NFL, Denver's offense was struggling with Jake Plummber as QB.

A Coyer Defense would compliment a Jay Cutler led offense in my humble opinion.

Popps
12-28-2008, 03:57 PM
I will say this, the addition of Hillis to the offense made us a real playoff threat, imo. We desperately need a strong first down runner for Shanahan's overall scheme to work. Had Hillis stayed healthy, I believe we'd be playing our back-ups this week and would have a real chance of beating Indy by controlling the clock and keeping our crumby defense off the field.

cutthemdown
12-28-2008, 03:58 PM
It wasn't the coordinator, it was the lack of real play-makers in the front seven. Though shockingly, that roster Coyer had looks like world-beaters compared to the sh#t we've had ever since.

People want to blame the coordinator because they are easier to replace then 5-6 starters on your defense.

Engleberger
Nate Webster
Paymah
Winborn
Doom
Boss Bailey
McCree
Manual


None of those players is even an avg NFL starter...They stink!!!!!!!

Doom has a spot as a situational pass rusher not a starter.

elsid13
12-28-2008, 03:59 PM
Sounds like the Broncos had a chance to build an indentity on defense by keeping Coyer.

If I recall correctly wasn't its Coyer's Defense that got Denver to the AFC title game in 2005?

Timing is everything, while Coyer had Denver's defense in the top 10 in the NFL, Denver's offense was struggling with Jake Plummber as QB.

A Coyer Defense would compliment a Jay Cutler led offense in my humble opinion.

yes it would have. A defense that geared up to force turnovers and offense that explosive to score with anyone. Whatever happens Denver need to pick a defense scheme that compliment the capability we have on offense

Popps
12-28-2008, 04:01 PM
If I recall correctly wasn't its Coyer's Defense that got Denver to the AFC title game in 2005?

Timing is everything, while Coyer had Denver's defense in the top 10 in the NFL, Denver's offense was struggling with Jake Plummber as QB.

A Coyer Defense would compliment a Jay Cutler led offense in my humble opinion.

Again, Coyer did a fine job... but his defenses got absolutely torched in big games, outside of the NE game when NE was really a shell of themselves.

Beyond that, you need to go back and look at that roster. Pryce, Webster, a healthy Champ, Lynch... Ekuban, sometimes Brown/Meyers, etc. That's an infinitely more talented group than we have right now.

People can hate Slowik all they want... and I didn't even want him hired, but we'd have a much different D if Slowik had the talent Coyer had.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 04:03 PM
I will say this, the addition of Hillis to the offense made us a real playoff thread, imo. We desperately need a strong first down runner for Shanahan's overall scheme to work. Had Hillis stayed healthy, I believe we'd be playing our back-ups this week and would have a real chance of beating Indy by controlling the clock and keeping our crumby defense off the field.

Right on Popps!!! The offense is just an All Pro RB or an 1800 plus yards of RBBC to realize anywhere from a 14-2 to 12-4 season with a QB with the caliber and talents a Cutler.....its just that simple.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 04:06 PM
I have DENVER BRONCOS tatooed on my COCK. And I had to add the horse head logo just so it was competely covered. :thumbsup:

Whew--The Pain! Then I stand corrected. You are one hard-core BRONCO FAN.:thumbsup:

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 04:08 PM
The other day somebody posted the league rankings of Coyer's 4 Broncos defenses, and all were Top 10. Ouch! Shanny's gotta be regretting that iring.

Or Al's neck :thumbs:

Broncojef
12-28-2008, 04:09 PM
If we do, Season ticket holders need to take a stand. That is the only way that Bowlen will listen to us. Unfortunately, as evidenced by 80% of the populous here, those Season ticket holders would never take such a stand. Hopefully, the CO economy takes such a nose dive that the vast majority cannot renew--and those of us who truly have a feel for what Denver once was will get a chance to let our voices be heard instead of the wine & cheese sheep that currently inhabit Invesco (and some sheep on this board).

My buddy and I are giving up our club seats after 13 years and we didn't buy the play-off option this year. The Broncos called a few times and even extended the play-off purchase option as it was clear many fans decided they could live without seeing this non-play-off calibre team in the play-offs.

baja
12-28-2008, 04:11 PM
Now this is scary;

Engleberger
Nate Webster
Paymah
Winborn
Doom
Boss Bailey
McCree
Manual

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 04:12 PM
I didn't say we should be "there," what I said was that I'm not sure we're any closer than we were one... two... and certainly not three years ago when we played in a championship game.

My point here is simply that this looks less like a "plan" to me than it does to some others here. It looks like a few good players taken high in the draft, and some decent offensive production. That's business as usual for Shanahan.

The problem is, horrible defenses also seem to be business as usual, and that's what we're faced with yet again. NO ONE will challenge the fact that our D has gotten worse, not better over the past three years. That's not a "rebuild," that's just futility.

As for how we could have gotten play-makers, that just takes a commitment. Guys like Abraham, Porter, Kearney and others have gone to new teams... along with a slew of other lesser-known but very productive players. We were busy signing cornerbacks and wide receivers, and plugging in the Sam Adams of the world instead of making a commitment to the front seven.

I'm not saying we had to NOT draft Cutler. I'm obviously thrilled that we did.
But, there's simply no evidence that what's happening on defense right now is part of any "plan." If so, it's a miserable failure and that plan should be scrapped immediately.

We do not have ONE single potential young star on the defensive side of the ball outside of Woodyard, and we can't even find a place to put him because we'd have to more our supposed "star" DJ Williams.

Not trying to be negative here. I love watching the team run up the score when things are going right. But, we've been needed to do the same thing for so long and just refuse to do it. Now we're faced with winning a must-win game without being able to play playoff football, yet again.

I like a lot of your thought process when marshall isn't involved.

...but I also think you give too much lee-way in the what-if territory.

You really can't see improvement over the past couple years?

If that's the case, I'm just speechless. A few playmakers on D, which is more than a capable task considering last off-season alone netted top talent like Clady, Royal and Hillis via the draft ALONE, and this is a ball club that's gonna beat some ass.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 04:14 PM
Again, Coyer did a fine job... but his defenses got absolutely torched in big games, outside of the NE game when NE was really a shell of themselves.

Beyond that, you need to go back and look at that roster. Pryce, Webster, a healthy Champ, Lynch... Ekuban, sometimes Brown/Meyers, etc. That's an infinitely more talented group than we have right now.

People can hate Slowik all they want... and I didn't even want him hired, but we'd have a much different D if Slowik had the talent Coyer had.

Well the point I was trying to make is that Coyer's Defense would have been most effective playing along side an offense that could score 30-38 points per game and a running game that could eat up clock time and keep opposing offensives off the field.

Cutler has the ability to lead and execute Shanahan's offense to score 30-38 points per game; so long as the running game is explosive enough to avg 1500-1800 yds and 15-25 rushing TD's.

Having an offense that potent really help disguise the weaknesses of a defense that's rated in the top 10-15 range.

I'm thinking this is the scenario Shanahan is envisioning as well.

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 04:15 PM
My buddy and I are giving up our club seats after 13 years and we didn't buy the play-off option this year. The Broncos called a few times and even extended the play-off purchase option as it was clear many fans decided they could live without seeing this non-play-off calibre team in the play-offs.

I commend you for your stand and I wish others would join in our cause to restore the luster to what was once the greatest homefield advantage in the NFL.

rastaman
12-28-2008, 04:20 PM
I commend you for your stand and I wish others would join in our cause to restore the luster to what was once the greatest homefield advantage in the NFL.

You never know what the 2009 season will bring. If the Dolphins can make the big turn around this season from only winning 1 game in 2007. A healthy running game for Denver next season may just bring back that homefield advantage.

Broncojef
12-28-2008, 04:25 PM
I commend you for your stand and I wish others would join in our cause to restore the luster to what was once the greatest homefield advantage in the NFL.

Our decision wasn't totally altruistic based solely on the fielded team. The Broncos also started a stupid rat on your neighbor hot-line and coprorate types wanting to bring their 5 year old to the game getting totally offended by an F-Bomb in their presence pushed me over the line this year. I paid $6K this year to watch a half baked team with no heart, and to have corporate types tell me to drink, yell, stand and swear less.

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 04:38 PM
Our decision wasn't totally altruistic based solely on the fielded team. The Broncos also started a stupid rat on your neighbor hot-line and coprorate types wanting to bring their 5 year old to the game getting totally offended by an F-Bomb in their presence pushed me over the line this year. I paid $6K this year to watch a half baked team with no heart, and to have corporate types tell me to drink, yell, stand and swear less.

invesco has no soul.............we were 4 and 4 at home this year.

its a joke at the schill of a stadium, teams like to come to our house, opposing fans love to buy our tickets...............

get used to it.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 04:42 PM
invesco has no soul.............we were 4 and 4 at home this year.

its a joke at the schill of a stadium, teams like to come to our house, opposing fans love to buy our tickets...............

get used to it.

Is that Shanahan's fault too?

PS. Great article out this year about how the NFL killed the homefield advantage. Good job blaming Bronco fans specifically, though.

bronco militia
12-28-2008, 04:43 PM
My buddy and I are giving up our club seats after 13 years and we didn't buy the play-off option this year. The Broncos called a few times and even extended the play-off purchase option as it was clear many fans decided they could live without seeing this non-play-off calibre team in the play-offs.

there have only been 8 years of club seating

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 04:48 PM
Is that Shanahan's fault too?

PS. Great article out this year about how the NFL killed the homefield advantage. Good job blaming Bronco fans specifically, though.



Wolf became a fan in 98 what do you expect....

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 04:51 PM
"It's been a trying season," receiver Lee Evans (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5538) said. "We weren't used to winning at the beginning of the season, so you can learn as much as you can from that. Learning how to win is key."

this team beat us in denver in a must win game, they put 30 on us at the corporate sell out stadium.

they scored 0 pts today at there own stadium.

quality effort by draftbustoimminentdomainahan

Broncojef
12-28-2008, 04:56 PM
there have only been 8 years of club seating

We were south standers prior to the new stadium during the Elway/SB years.

Bronx33
12-28-2008, 04:58 PM
We were south standers prior to the new stadium during the Elway/SB years.


After experiencing the south stand years why would you move up to the wine and cheese level?

Broncojef
12-28-2008, 05:07 PM
After experiencing the south stand years why would you move up to the wine and cheese level?

One of the worst decisions I have ever made. My buddy has a busted up back and we thought the more comfortable seating with arm rests etc would help him a great deal. The old south stands were wood bleachers even when you were sitting it was rough. We stood a great deal of the games but even with that the cold would give him spasms for weeks even after football season had ended. The seating is more comfortable in Invesco but no real fans around year after year. I miss the old south stands!!!!

theAPAOps5
12-28-2008, 05:22 PM
The Wine and Cheese level sucks ass. Won't even take free tickets if they are there anymore. You get texted to Security for even standing and cheering.

Popps
12-28-2008, 06:34 PM
Well, Shanahan took a couple of defensive players a couple years back in the draft. That's all he felt he needed to do.

Enjoy your results tonight, Broncos fans.

But, it's not like we've had the same problems for a decade or so.

Haroldthebarrel
12-28-2008, 06:38 PM
Well, Shanahan took a couple of defensive players a couple years back in the draft. That's all he felt he needed to do.

Enjoy your results tonight, Broncos fans.

But, it's not like we've had the same problems for a decade or so.

Doesnt it look more like the firing of Coyer set the defense back to three years.
Two way different systems since Coyer.
At least Coyer actually managed to do what he promises the team would practice on during the offseason.

But you are right about the late season melt down. happens every year.
Wonder why that is?

Bronco X
12-28-2008, 06:41 PM
There should be some accountability for this collapse. Some consequences. Bowlen should not consider Shanahan untouchable. If he doesn't fire him outright, he should at least strip him of his management duties. I've never advocated firing Shanahan but I honestly can't think of a good reason why not right now.

EmpireOrange
12-28-2008, 06:42 PM
Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

So fire Mike because of his talent evaluations... but HIRE Gruden!

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

No Fire Shanahan because he has to held accountable for this crap. I'd rather have a couple dumbass coaches for a few years feeling the pressure to win then getting spoon fed this crap and being told to go effe myself and take it becasue Shanny has a life time contract. Why is Shanny not accoutable to this crap? Is he an elite coach? Turn on the TV, genius, he is NOT elite. No way a parcell, Belicheck, Walsh, Gibbs ect coached team would show up and do this. No way an elite coach loses a 3 game lead in the last 3 weeks. Parcel takes over Miami and they go from 1 - 15 to 11 -5 and winning the division. Shanahan can't carry any of the elite coaches jock and yet in DENVER - on my team - he has a freaking life time contracr. Shanny is taken us all for a ride. It time he joins the soup line with the rest of the economy.

socalorado
12-28-2008, 06:48 PM
Its all eminent domain's fault.

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 06:52 PM
its not shannarats fault, prater missed the extra point, he can't tackle or play.

duh!

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 07:01 PM
Doesnt it look more like the firing of Coyer set the defense back to three years.
Two way different systems since Coyer.
At least Coyer actually managed to do what he promises the team would practice on during the offseason.

But you are right about the late season melt down. happens every year.
Wonder why that is?

Coyer was here in 2006--and the 2nd half of 2006 was a ****ing disaster defensively--not to this degree, but a disaster none the less. Plus, didn't shanny say that he let coyer go not due to x's & o's but instead b/c he had lost the players??

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 07:02 PM
good thing shannafallflat has the players!

rmsanger
12-28-2008, 07:04 PM
I think this is the equivalent of the fall of Rome for Denver. Shanny does not offer a balance solution for running a team. His teams are soft and the skill positions do not have basic skill.

Such things as catching wide-open passes (Royal), making XPs (Prater), basic coverage (Bell), and tackling (everyone on D).

Haroldthebarrel
12-28-2008, 07:08 PM
Coyer was here in 2006--and the 2nd half of 2006 was a ****ing disaster defensively--not to this degree, but a disaster none the less. Plus, didn't shanny say that he let coyer go not due to x's & o's but instead b/c he had lost the players??

i dont know. The thing about loosing the players. Didnt that have some to do with the Gibbs debacle too?

Any way, I think Shanahan acted too hastily when he fired Coyer.
At least he had the team play hard until the big team exploded upon us.

I liked his cover two approach so I hope we find a cover two type cordinator in the off season. Should Slowik keep his job, I admit I will for the first time be a Shanahan "hater".
His lack of Gm skills and rash decisions has put us into a position where we have been a just above mediocre team.
every year we feel "we are just a player away" but its more than that of course.

TheReverend
12-28-2008, 07:42 PM
i dont know. The thing about loosing the players. Didnt that have some to do with the Gibbs debacle too?

Any way, I think Shanahan acted too hastily when he fired Coyer.
At least he had the team play hard until the big team exploded upon us.

I liked his cover two approach so I hope we find a cover two type cordinator in the off season. Should Slowik keep his job, I admit I will for the first time be a Shanahan "hater".
His lack of Gm skills and rash decisions has put us into a position where we have been a just above mediocre team.
every year we feel "we are just a player away" but its more than that of course.

Do you really feel Coyer could/would have done better without a player of Al Wilson's caliber?

Personally, I think you can watch the 06 season and Al's progressing injury for the answer.

Secondly, I agree. I despise Slowik. But IF he stays, I will wait 8 games into the season before I rage on it. I gave every other inept DC time... I'll give this dumb **** the same luxury.

Haroldthebarrel
12-28-2008, 08:04 PM
Do you really feel Coyer could/would have done better without a player of Al Wilson's caliber?

Personally, I think you can watch the 06 season and Al's progressing injury for the answer.

Secondly, I agree. I despise Slowik. But IF he stays, I will wait 8 games into the season before I rage on it. I gave every other inept DC time... I'll give this dumb **** the same luxury.

I am 100 percent certain of that. As I said, every thing we were rehearsing in off season that was a priority, he was succesful.

There is absolutely no reason to keep Slowik. Every thing that can go wrong went wrong. And then he took bad decisions. Failing to play the rookies when the defense was playing better. Going back to what isnt working.

Not to say his history is repeating. A worse defense than before. Legendary few turnovers, even when playing off coverage.

We have the players to play some zone. Get a man to coach the defense and we might actually go somewhere.
Keep Shanahan out of the defensive staffing decisions though.

wolf754life
12-28-2008, 08:07 PM
"keep shannahan out of the defensive staffing decisions though"

are you nuts, do you understand how it works out there at dove valley?

tell president bush to stay out of homeland security decisions

tell the ceo to stay out of the accounting department

you sir are not aware of how things work when someone thinks they are the end all be all!

mike "the mastermind" shannahan

wolf754life
12-29-2008, 12:30 AM
Mission Failed.

TomServo
12-29-2008, 12:33 AM
F coyer, f bates, f patheticslowik, the buck stops with you know who. said before i dont give a rats ass about SBs 32 and 33.

TomServo
12-29-2008, 12:34 AM
and i dont want that slobbering spitting fool cohwer

TomServo
12-29-2008, 01:15 AM
didnt the ravens show their asshole -saviour coach the door? Oyeah theyre in the playoffs now.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-17-2009, 04:21 PM
*yawn*


Shanahan facing his own waterloo - except that he's not.

Dum de doo...oops....

Inkana7
05-17-2009, 04:22 PM
Really, Bob?

Bob's your Information Minister
05-17-2009, 04:24 PM
good thing Bowlen isnt an Idiot .

Yup. Wait...

tsiguy96
05-17-2009, 04:32 PM
bob, you never, ever need to ask why everyone here hates you, and most would probably like to see get hit by a car than **** a supermodel.

you do stupid **** like this all the time, then go whoa is me.

think about this: you are on a broncos message board, not a chiefs one, and have over 20,000 posts. that is twenty THOUSAND. are you kidding me.

footstepsfrom#27
05-17-2009, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider
I dont think there is a decline in Shannys coaching skills , if anything , I think he is doing a great job this year , 8 different running backs , young QB , young WR , T.E. that cant stay healthy , several injures on defense it is a wonder we are not 2 -13 right now ............
you think people would understand this?

but no, when we dont win the super bowl the whole year was a failure to these morons.
Baahaaa...

http://www.blueworldgardener.co.uk/store/images/JGScockoscom_tn.jpg

Bob's your Information Minister
05-17-2009, 04:59 PM
Whoa is me?

BroncoBuff
05-18-2009, 02:55 AM
Whoa is me?

That's "woe" knothead.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-18-2009, 06:39 AM
That's "woe" knothead.

I was responding to tsi's post. I know how it's spelled.