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pink_feet
12-26-2008, 11:27 AM
Rivers or Cutler (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11190751)

PRISCO: That's a tough one. But I think I'd go with Rivers. Most would say Cutler in large part because of that big arm. I prefer the guy who sees the field better, and that's Rivers. I think Rivers has quietly had a heck of a season. He's not even going to the Pro Bowl, which is a joke. Rivers has 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions, while Cutler has 24 and 16. Cutler has more passing yards, but Rivers is averaging 8.3 per attempt to 7.4 for Cutler. That disputes some of the thinking that Rivers isn't a good down-the-field thrower. Cutler's arm seduces a lot of people, and it's hard not to love. But Rivers doesn't get his due in large part because he doesn't have a rifle for an arm. But he gets it. He sees the field as well as anybody in the league. So Rivers it is.

JUDGE: Rivers. I've never been a big Cutler fan, though I love the guy's release and marvel at his ability to launch rockets. He has one of the strongest arms I've seen, but I've made myself clear on this subject: Arm strength is overrated. Chad Pennington was criticized for not having a big arm. Big deal. He's accurate. And he wins. What has Jay Cutler won? Nothing. Yeah, he throws like Randy Johnson. But he doesn't win like Randy Johnson. In fact, he hasn't won anything. Not yet anyway. Rivers was 14-2 in his first season as a starter. He went to the AFC championship game in his second season as a starter. Now he's on the verge of winning his third straight division title. So he rubs some people the wrong way. The guy is competitive, and I like that. And he's tough. He proved that in an overtime defeat of Tennessee last season, then again in the conference championship game. Oh, yeah, one other thing: He's productive. He leads the league in touchdowns and passer rating, and somebody please notify the Pro Bowl.


Let the excuses begin.

Northman
12-26-2008, 11:31 AM
Poor Rivers, with all that talent on that team he never gets any love. The media always favors Denver and even picked them to go to the Super Bowl because of their allstar RB. SD has nothing like that. Must be tough for Phyllis to throw virtually every single down unlike Jay. Yea, Rivers gets the short end of the stick no doubt.

Garcia Bronco
12-26-2008, 11:34 AM
PRISCO: That's a tough one. But I think I'd go with Rivers. Most would say Cutler in large part because of that big arm. I prefer the guy who sees the field better, and that's Rivers. I think Rivers has quietly had a heck of a season. He's not even going to the Pro Bowl, which is a joke. Rivers has 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions, while Cutler has 24 and 16. Cutler has more passing yards, but Rivers is averaging 8.3 per attempt to 7.4 for Cutler. That disputes some of the thinking that Rivers isn't a good down-the-field thrower. Cutler's arm seduces a lot of people, and it's hard not to love. But Rivers doesn't get his due in large part because he doesn't have a rifle for an arm. But he gets it. He sees the field as well as anybody in the league. So Rivers it is.

Rivers doesn't get his due? I agree with this dumbass journalist. Rivers without a doubt sees the field better. Of course we also seem to forget he's been in the NFL much longer and had 3 years to study.

JUDGE: Rivers. I've never been a big Cutler fan, though I love the guy's release and marvel at his ability to launch rockets. He has one of the strongest arms I've seen, but I've made myself clear on this subject: Arm strength is overrated. Chad Pennington was criticized for not having a big arm. Big deal. He's accurate. And he wins. What has Jay Cutler won? Nothing. Yeah, he throws like Randy Johnson. But he doesn't win like Randy Johnson. In fact, he hasn't won anything. Not yet anyway. Rivers was 14-2 in his first season as a starter. He went to the AFC championship game in his second season as a starter. Now he's on the verge of winning his third straight division title. So he rubs some people the wrong way. The guy is competitive, and I like that. And he's tough. He proved that in an overtime defeat of Tennessee last season, then again in the conference championship game. Oh, yeah, one other thing: He's productive. He leads the league in touchdowns and passer rating, and somebody please notify the Pro Bowl.

Judge is also a dumbass, but an even bigger one. What has Rivers ever won? Nothing.

Bolts_Rule_AFC_West
12-26-2008, 11:35 AM
Poor Rivers, with all that talent on that team he never gets any love. The media always favors Denver and even picked them to go to the Super Bowl because of their allstar RB. SD has nothing like that. Must be tough for Phyllis to throw virtually every single down unlike Jay. Yea, Rivers gets the short end of the stick no doubt.
Huh?

Can anyone translate this?

Bolts_Rule_AFC_West
12-26-2008, 11:36 AM
Judge is also a dumbass, but an even bigger one. What has Rivers ever won? Nothing.
Well.... he's won Prisco's respect. Since he is a huge Denver homer, that's saying something.

Northman
12-26-2008, 11:38 AM
Huh?

Can anyone translate this?


Figured that would go right over your head. Shocker there. :rofl:

pink_feet
12-26-2008, 11:38 AM
Judge is also a dumbass, but an even bigger one. What has Rivers ever won? Nothing.

Careful here.
If the Chargers win Sunday, that is three (count em, 3) AFC West titles in a row. Thats winning something.

BlaK-Argentina
12-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Who cares? Talk to me in 10 years. We'll see. BTW this is what... Rivers' 6th year?

pink_feet
12-26-2008, 11:39 AM
BTW this is what... Rivers' 6th year?

Fifth, 3rd year as a starter.

Northman
12-26-2008, 11:40 AM
Careful here.
If the Chargers win Sunday, that is three (count em, 3) AFC West titles in a row. Thats winning something.

So is winning two Championship Titles. How many you guys got again?

Garcia Bronco
12-26-2008, 11:43 AM
Well.... he's won Prisco's respect. Since he is a huge Denver homer, that's saying something.

I watched him play at NCS for years. He's a good QB. He sees the field and while he may not have a rifle arm, he can get the ball where it needs to be.

Bolts_Rule_AFC_West
12-26-2008, 11:44 AM
Figured that would go right over your head. Shocker there. :rofl:
I'm not good with whineese. I admit it. ;D

Garcia Bronco
12-26-2008, 11:45 AM
Careful here.
If the Chargers win Sunday, that is three (count em, 3) AFC West titles in a row. Thats winning something.

That is technically true, but I don't think divison titles are all that special. But hey, Cutler hasn't even played his full 3rd season as a starter yet.

BlaK-Argentina
12-26-2008, 11:45 AM
Fifth, 3rd year as a starter.

Ok talk to me in two years then. :wiggle:

I'm not a homer, I love Jay but Rivers is playing better right now. They both had their moments during the season. Jay started off playing amazing, then was just average, then played great again, now not that well... and we need him to be great again this sunday.
Rivers has been more consistent. He's still a POS but a good QB. BTW I'm laughing at the Rivers > Brees comment. *

* Ok that was in a different thread. ;D

Hammer
12-26-2008, 11:52 AM
I love Chad but what exactly has he won?

400HZ
12-26-2008, 11:57 AM
Poor Rivers, with all that talent on that team he never gets any love. The media always favors Denver and even picked them to go to the Super Bowl because of their allstar RB. SD has nothing like that. Must be tough for Phyllis to throw virtually every single down unlike Jay. Yea, Rivers gets the short end of the stick no doubt.

Apparently you haven't seen our All-Star RB this year.

Rnk Team Yards Avg Ypg TDs
12 Denver Broncos 1,772 yds 4.7 ypr 118.1 ypg 13 rtds
28 San Diego Chargers 1,437 yds 3.8 ypr 95.8 ypg 8 rtds

Nice try, but the Broncos have a huge advantage in the run game.

Inkana7
12-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Yeah. Losing 7 RBs to the IR is a huge advantage over a guy who scored 31 TDs 2 years ago.

go_broncos
12-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Right now, I have to say Rivers because his team is winning and also his record against AFC West.

He is the best QB in AFC this season.

I hate SD and rivers.
But, the truth is they are winning games due to him.

400HZ
12-26-2008, 12:12 PM
Yeah. Losing 7 RBs to the IR is a huge advantage over a guy who scored 31 TDs 2 years ago.

Do those touchdowns from 2006 show up on the 2008 scoreboard?

Inkana7
12-26-2008, 12:13 PM
Do those touchdowns from 2006 show up on the 2008 scoreboard?

LT Or Tatum Bell? Who would you rather have?

Popps
12-26-2008, 12:14 PM
PRISCO

Judge is also a dumbass, but an even bigger one. What has Rivers ever won? Nothing.

Rivers is something like 25-7 as a starter. Is Cutler over the .500 mark yet?

Individual stats also favor Rivers - 76 TDs to 36 INTs compared to Cutler's 53/35. Rivers sports a better passer rating, as well.

Beyond that, the reason observers favor Rivers is probably related to the way he carries himself. Jay looks like a world-beater sometimes, and a pouty kid other times. If you watched the end of the KC game... every San Diego Charger EXCEPT Rivers was on the bench crying with their face in their hands. Rivers was chomping at the bit to get in there and win the game... and he did. He played upbeat, flawless football and willed his team to a win. (Helped by a horrific performance by K.C..)

Rivers has also fared better in marquee match-ups. Cutler played well against Tenn last year, but has had some real stinkers, as well.

Jay needs to grow up and learn to be a consistent leader. He's overflowing with talent. No question, there. The question is that if we get down a couple of scores... can he keep his head up, keep his mechanics in order and lead his team like Rivers did against K.C..

Until then, don't expect the rest of the football world to take the homeristic view of the situation that we do around here. I think Jay can end up a much better QB than Rivers. Let's hope he does.

400HZ
12-26-2008, 12:20 PM
LT Or Tatum Bell? Who would you rather have?

I'd rather have Peyton Hillis or Darren Sproles getting 20 carries a game. More than that, I'd like to have a great O line that can open holes regardless of who is running the ball.

BlaK-Argentina
12-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Rivers is something like 25-7 as a starter. Is Cutler over the .500 mark yet?

Individual stats also favor Rivers - 76 TDs to 36 INTs compared to Cutler's 53/35. Rivers sports a better passer rating, as well.

Beyond that, the reason observers favor Rivers is probably related to the way he carries himself. Jay looks like a world-beater sometimes, and a pouty kid other times. If you watched the end of the KC game... every San Diego Charger EXCEPT Rivers was on the bench crying with their face in their hands. Rivers was chomping at the bit to get in there and win the game... and he did. He played upbeat, flawless football and willed his team to a win. (Helped by a horrific performance by K.C..)

Rivers has also fared better in marquee match-ups. Cutler played well against Tenn last year, but has had some real stinkers, as well.

Jay needs to grow up and learn to be a consistent leader. He's overflowing with talent. No question, there. The question is that if we get down a couple of scores... can he keep his head up, keep his mechanics in order and lead his team like Rivers did against K.C..

Until then, don't expect the rest of the football world to take the homeristic view of the situation that we do around here. I think Jay can end up a much better QB than Rivers. Let's hope he does.

Denver fans keep saying that and he's already had SEVERAL clutch drives while being behind in need of a tie or a TD to win a game. That's not the question. Can he play consistent football over the course of a season/game is the real ?.

go_broncos
12-26-2008, 12:22 PM
Rivers is something like 25-7 as a starter. Is Cutler over the .500 mark yet?

Individual stats also favor Rivers - 76 TDs to 36 INTs compared to Cutler's 53/35. Rivers sports a better passer rating, as well.

Beyond that, the reason observers favor Rivers is probably related to the way he carries himself. Jay looks like a world-beater sometimes, and a pouty kid other times. If you watched the end of the KC game... every San Diego Charger EXCEPT Rivers was on the bench crying with their face in their hands. Rivers was chomping at the bit to get in there and win the game... and he did. He played upbeat, flawless football and willed his team to a win. (Helped by a horrific performance by K.C..)

Rivers has also fared better in marquee match-ups. Cutler played well against Tenn last year, but has had some real stinkers, as well.

Jay needs to grow up and learn to be a consistent leader. He's overflowing with talent. No question, there. The question is that if we get down a couple of scores... can he keep his head up, keep his mechanics in order and lead his team like Rivers did against K.C..

Until then, don't expect the rest of the football world to take the homeristic view of the situation that we do around here. I think Jay can end up a much better QB than Rivers. Let's hope he does.

You are correct.

Once Rivers became their QB, they are winning more games.

Cutler is just not consistent. Last week, against Buffalo we could have tied the game. But, he threw the interception.

Week to Week his game changes..it is hard to predict.

He needs to be consistent and be a leader of this team.

DHallblows
12-26-2008, 12:24 PM
Apparently you haven't seen our All-Star RB this year.

Rnk Team Yards Avg Ypg TDs
12 Denver Broncos 1,772 yds 4.7 ypr 118.1 ypg 13 rtds
28 San Diego Chargers 1,437 yds 3.8 ypr 95.8 ypg 8 rtds

Nice try, but the Broncos have a huge advantage in the run game.

Yay cherry picking stats!!!!
So you cite team stats after saying we haven't seen your All-star rb this season? Should we show stats of the starting rbs?

Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD
LaDainian Tomlinson 278 1014 3.6 41 8
Selvin Young 61 303 5.0 49 1

To suggest your running game has been less useful than ours is just plain asinine. Our runs are set up by our pass which should never happen. So don't pull that stat bs

400HZ
12-26-2008, 12:32 PM
Yay cherry picking stats!!!!
So you cite team stats after saying we haven't seen your All-star rb this season? Should we show stats of the starting rbs?

Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD
LaDainian Tomlinson 278 1014 3.6 41 8
Selvin Young 61 303 5.0 49 1

To suggest your running game has been less useful than ours is just plain asinine. Our runs are set up by our pass which should never happen. So don't pull that stat bs

Do you think Shanahan ever intended for Selvin Young to match LT statistically? Are you that unfamiliar with your own team? I'd say Selvin averaging a full 1.4 yards more per rush is huge in and of itself. Shanahan always intended to have a running back by committee, and he always intended to be pass-centric this year.

Spider
12-26-2008, 12:39 PM
as for pure athletic Talent .........Cuter , but lets be honest The Chargers have been the more complete team .......anyone who has seen Cutler fit the ball into some of the places he does ... Rivers would have to climb a ladder just to kiss Cutlers ass ........

snowspot66
12-26-2008, 12:48 PM
Comparing Cutler and Rivers wins? Please...this is apples to oranges. Let's even the talent out and see how things look.

s0phr0syne
12-26-2008, 12:51 PM
Both QB's are playing well, but the statistical edge goes to Rivers right now. He's got the better team around him, and I'm shocked that the normally rational 400hz is arguing anything else, especially on the basis of comparing running games. SD is far superior there in terms of talent and fewer injuries. A good part of Rivers success has been predicated on teams bottling up LT. Sure, LT's individual production is down, but a portion of the passing games success is attributable to teams still accounting for the SD backfield. A defense hasn't had to do that against Denver since the first half against KC @ Denver.

If it's my choice, I take Cutler. Rivers is a great player, on a better overall team. Cutler is Atlas for our Broncos. The Chargers clearly underachieved for the last 14 games and 55 min. Then they turned on.

400HZ
12-26-2008, 01:03 PM
Both QB's are playing well, but the statistical edge goes to Rivers right now. He's got the better team around him, and I'm shocked that the normally rational 400hz is arguing anything else, especially on the basis of comparing running games. SD is far superior there in terms of talent and fewer injuries. A good part of Rivers success has been predicated on teams bottling up LT. Sure, LT's individual production is down, but a portion of the passing games success is attributable to teams still accounting for the SD backfield. A defense hasn't had to do that against Denver since the first half against KC @ Denver.

If it's my choice, I take Cutler. Rivers is a great player, on a better overall team. Cutler is Atlas for our Broncos. The Chargers clearly underachieved for the last 14 games and 55 min. Then they turned on.

What's irrational? San Diego as a team averaging a full yard less per carry and with a much lower rushing total has a big advantage in the run game? The Chargers aren't seeing eight man fronts on any sort of consistant basis.

elsid13
12-26-2008, 01:21 PM
Do you think Shanahan ever intended for Selvin Young to match LT statistically? Are you that unfamiliar with your own team? I'd say Selvin averaging a full 1.4 yards more per rush is huge in and of itself. Shanahan always intended to have a running back by committee, and he always intended to be pass-centric this year.

Actually Shanahan believes in two things are need to win the NFL. Run the ball effectively and stopping the run. He drafted Cutler not because he going away from the philosophy, but rather we wanted a QB that make those plays on 3rd and long and force the defense not to stack up to stop the running game. Beside the fact that almost everything the Denver playbook is based upon the run and it use to give Cutler the PA and drags, slant passes ,etc.

Kaylore
12-26-2008, 01:27 PM
What's irrational? San Diego as a team averaging a full yard less per carry and with a much lower rushing total has a big advantage in the run game? The Chargers aren't seeing eight man fronts on any sort of consistant basis.

Sproles at least shows up for you guys. And LT has his moments. We have literally nobody.

Northman
12-26-2008, 01:30 PM
Both QB's are playing well, but the statistical edge goes to Rivers right now.

Bingo. There's a huge difference between a young team like Denver overachieving and a team like the Chargers who were one year away from the AFC Championship game underachieving. Put Cutler on the Chargers and that team isnt 7-8 at this point. Sorry, anyone trying to compare these teams as equal is an idiot.

baja
12-26-2008, 01:35 PM
Huh?

Can anyone translate this?

Don't they have sarcasm in SD.

Memento
12-26-2008, 01:36 PM
Here's where our (Jay's) consistency problems come from. This is the team I think we'd field right now if we could take away injuries (or at least the great running back hex of 2008 :)).

Player Age
Royal 22
Clady 22
Hamilton 31
Wiegmann 35
Kuper 25
Harris 23
Scheffler 25
Marshall 24
Cutler 25
Torain 22
Hillis 22
Avg. Age. 25


Kind of bodes well for the future though...

400HZ
12-26-2008, 01:37 PM
Sproles at least shows up for you guys. And LT has his moments. We have literally nobody.

Maybe not anymore, but you have to admit that Pittman and Hillis were very solid for you while they were healthy. And some of those guys like Pope and Torrain were good for the quarter or so that they lasted. LT hasn't landed himself on IR, but he's been next to useless for most of the year. Almost as useless as our offensive line. And don't think that I enjoy kicking dirt on Chargers players, but I call it like I see it, and useless is what we've seen from a lot of them this year.

BroncoBuff
12-26-2008, 01:39 PM
Right now, I have to say Rivers because his team is winning and also his record against AFC West.

He is the best QB in AFC this season.

I hate SD and rivers.
This is all true ... but there is still room for Cutler to mature and develop. Rivers is two or three years ahead of him. I'm surprised that hasn't been pointed out.

The interceptions are perplexing at times, but what about all the dropped passes? I think we're #1 in the league in drops.

And memento is right, the youth on this offense is priming for a bustout season. We may very well be the best offense in the league in the next two years. Heaven help NFL defenses if Kory Lichtensteiger, Chad Jackson and Ryan Torain all play up to expectations ... that will be a VERY scary offense.

400HZ
12-26-2008, 01:39 PM
Bingo. There's a huge difference between a young team like Denver overachieving and a team like the Chargers who were one year away from the AFC Championship game underachieving. Put Cutler on the Chargers and that team isnt 7-8 at this point. Sorry, anyone trying to compare these teams as equal is an idiot.

Probably not. Some of those games that we came back to win probably wouldn't have happened.

Archer81
12-26-2008, 01:40 PM
Maybe not anymore, but you have to admit that Pittman and Hillis were very solid for you while they were healthy. And some of those guys like Pope and Torrain were good for the quarter or so that they lasted. LT hasn't landed himself on IR, but he's been next to useless for most of the year. Almost as useless as our offensive line. And don't think that I enjoy kicking dirt on Chargers players, but I call it like I see it, and useless is what we've seen from a lot of them this year.

Thats what we mean. Neither does us any good on IR. We have Bell and Someguy. That works doesnt it. Our offense was completely lethal and took over games with Hillis and Pittman in the backfield.


:Broncos:

pink_feet
12-26-2008, 01:45 PM
Rivers is something like 25-7 as a starter. Is Cutler over the .500 mark yet?

Individual stats also favor Rivers - 76 TDs to 36 INTs compared to Cutler's 53/35. Rivers sports a better passer rating, as well.

Beyond that, the reason observers favor Rivers is probably related to the way he carries himself. Jay looks like a world-beater sometimes, and a pouty kid other times. If you watched the end of the KC game... every San Diego Charger EXCEPT Rivers was on the bench crying with their face in their hands. Rivers was chomping at the bit to get in there and win the game... and he did. He played upbeat, flawless football and willed his team to a win. (Helped by a horrific performance by K.C..)

Rivers has also fared better in marquee match-ups. Cutler played well against Tenn last year, but has had some real stinkers, as well.

Jay needs to grow up and learn to be a consistent leader. He's overflowing with talent. No question, there. The question is that if we get down a couple of scores... can he keep his head up, keep his mechanics in order and lead his team like Rivers did against K.C..

Until then, don't expect the rest of the football world to take the homeristic view of the situation that we do around here. I think Jay can end up a much better QB than Rivers. Let's hope he does.

Spot on. :thumbs:

ChampJesusBailey
12-26-2008, 01:48 PM
1. Rivers has been in the league longer than Cutler.
2. Rivers has been on a better team than Cutler.
3. Rivers hasn't won **** either.

SD is 4-8 when Rivers has to throw more than 25 times this year. 3-0 when he throws less.

Denver has thrown less than 25 times one time, the week 1 blowout of Oakland.

So imho River's having more touchdowns and a higher rating is irrelevant. They have a passing attack set up by the run game which means a lot of play action and a lot of base defenses for Rivers to throw against. Denver on the other hand runs well because teams expect pass and teams are constantly in pass defenses which allows us to gash them. How successful would Rivers be if he had to throw as much as Jay and throw into coverage a lot, as Jay does?

DB_champ24
12-26-2008, 02:55 PM
Once they bring in the records, it just ruins it. Ya cool Rivers has the better record. Why is that though? It's because the Chargers had one of the best defenses in the NFL along with the best running game which included Tomlinson and Turner...How couldn't you have one of the best records? They weren't winning because of Rivers that's for sure. Even though Brees is a good QB and a better one IMO he won with the Chargers too and now look at him in NO, he isn't winning.

Give Cutler one of the best defenses with one of the best running games and I bet he would have sealed the deal for a superbowl. People say these guys are winner or losers but your really nothing but a loser until you've won a superbowl and everyone knows that a big mountain to climb. To bad the road to a superbowl doesn't rely on 1 individual and the whole team needs to be playing well because football is the worlds most team oriented sport.

Basically how these moronic writers back their arguments for who is the better player, all they are saying is who is the better team and right now the Chargers are. If they were asked this question after the Broncos beat the falcons and jets, they would have picked Cutler.

Orange_Beard
12-26-2008, 03:11 PM
Apparently you haven't seen our All-Star RB this year.

Rnk Team Yards Avg Ypg TDs
12 Denver Broncos 1,772 yds 4.7 ypr 118.1 ypg 13 rtds
28 San Diego Chargers 1,437 yds 3.8 ypr 95.8 ypg 8 rtds

Nice try, but the Broncos have a huge advantage in the run game.

Not have, HAD!

Bronx33
12-26-2008, 03:12 PM
but Rivers is averaging 8.3 per attempt to 7.4 for Cutler

Stupidest reason ever ( it's not even a yard difference) Bwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaahahahahaaaa.

Popps
12-26-2008, 03:16 PM
You are correct.

Once Rivers became their QB, they are winning more games.

Cutler is just not consistent. Last week, against Buffalo we could have tied the game. But, he threw the interception.

Week to Week his game changes..it is hard to predict.

He needs to be consistent and be a leader of this team.

Yep. In fact, he threw three balls in the last ten minutes of the game that should have been easy interceptions. (Only one actually was.)

He's near the end of his third season and it's time to start putting away key-games like that one. It's absolutely true that the kid's being put in a tough spot without a running game. That said, he was drafted high and is supposed to be able to perform in clutch situations like last Sunday in the fourth quarter. I believe he will... but he needs to start showing consistency and good decision-making skills in these scenarios.

He'll have another chance this weekend.

Northman
12-26-2008, 03:56 PM
Yep. In fact, he threw three balls in the last ten minutes of the game that should have been easy interceptions. (Only one actually was.)

He's near the end of his third season and it's time to start putting away key-games like that one. It's absolutely true that the kid's being put in a tough spot without a running game. That said, he was drafted high and is supposed to be able to perform in clutch situations like last Sunday in the fourth quarter. I believe he will... but he needs to start showing consistency and good decision-making skills in these scenarios.

He'll have another chance this weekend.


Yep. Been a problem for most of the year and sometimes he was able to bail out the team and sometimes not. Not too mention one of the worst defenses in the league.

CEH
12-26-2008, 04:23 PM
Funny how everyone forgets Rivers also threw an INT in the BUF endzone late (6:00 mins left) when he has his team driving for the winning score.

broncofan7
12-26-2008, 04:38 PM
Regarding this Sunday--I'll take Rivers Vs OUR _efense but then again I will virtually take ANY QB against our _efense. Thanks SLOWIK and the 'MAESTROMIND'. Rivers--has LT --a top 20 RB, best TE in football in Gates and a solid #1a in Jackson and a #1b in Chambers. We have Marshall and Royal .Other than that nothing really stands out for us. SD has the better RB, the BEST TE,and a better #2 WR. We have the better OL, better #1 WR and better #3 Wr. The difference is , we have the WORST _efense in terms of points against outside of KC and DET--who have a combined 2 wins TOTAL. Jay is handicapped by our -efense to a GREATER extent than is Phyllis.

watermock
12-26-2008, 04:43 PM
We were playing press and stopping them in the first 1.5 Q, then Pope went down and the D went into a shell.

Merlin
12-26-2008, 05:49 PM
Rivers has also fared better in marquee match-ups.
I'm willing to be critical of JC's decision making at critical moments of games, but this is just nonsense if we limit the conversation to this yr, which is what the ego fans want to do. Rivers has lost the marquee games with the exception of TB, and that happened when TB was falling like a rock. JC won many games against the good teams this yr, and not while they were in a free-fall. As to his brilliance without the running game...HE HAS STUNK WITHOUT IT.

Rivers's record on games where he had to throw has been pathetic (4-8). JC's record has not been great, but it has been decent all things considered (no running game, no STs, no D). In fact, Rivers has only been good when defenses have not been able to contain the running game, whereas Denver's running game has only succeeded when defenses have had trouble containing the passing game. A dramatic difference, giving a totally different picture of the running game of both teams. So yes, SD has a far better running game than Denver, and the mere proof is that it has been helpful in creating wins whereas Denver's running game has not won a game for them (just merely complemented the passing game at times).

pink_feet
12-26-2008, 05:57 PM
Rivers's record on games where he had to throw has been pathetic (4-8). JC's record has not been great, but it has been decent all things considered (no running game, no STs, no D). In fact, Rivers has only been good when defenses have not been able to contain the running game, whereas Denver's running game has only succeeded when defenses have had trouble containing the passing game. A dramatic difference, giving a totally different picture of the running game of both teams. So yes, SD has a far better running game than Denver, and the mere proof is that it has been helpful in creating wins whereas Denver's running game has not won a game for them (just merely complemented the passing game at times).

That is not even close to being true.


I live in San Diego and they televise all the games here (obviously). I can tell you, without a doubt that the Chargers running game as been MIA all year long. LT has like 2 or 3 100 yard games? Thats it. They dont have a running game. In fact, statistically, we have a better running game than the Chargers. Knowing that, your statement is big time false.

:welcome:

Inkana7
12-26-2008, 06:03 PM
And our running game as a whole has only had 2 100 yard runners.

Rigs11
12-26-2008, 06:04 PM
Who gives a fack? We'll see on Sunday won't we?

Dedhed
12-26-2008, 06:14 PM
Rivers has had the most talented team in football around him since he was handed the starting job, and they've managed to underwhelm every single year he's been the guy in SD.

Rivers's amazing numbers, inferior to Jay's BTW, have gotten a considerable boost by the fact that defenses have been playing prevent defense by the third qtr in about 90% of their games due to how brutally inept he is when defenses are playing for real.

cutthemdown
12-26-2008, 06:20 PM
Careful here.
If the Chargers win Sunday, that is three (count em, 3) AFC West titles in a row. Thats winning something.

leave it to a Charger fan to think AFC west titles mean anything. It's all about getting to and winning the Superbowl. Obviously Charger fans no little about winning Superbowls.

Dedhed
12-26-2008, 06:22 PM
leave it to a Charger fan to think AFC west titles mean anything. It's all about getting to and winning the Superbowl. Obviously Charger fans no little about winning Superbowls.

Hey, to some folks, "moral victories" are all you can hope for.

cutthemdown
12-26-2008, 06:22 PM
Who gives a fack? We'll see on Sunday won't we?

Sigh..............

Kicking Rivers in his nuts would sure be a nice late Xmas present. I have to admit though I'm super worried. This game is exactly what Chargers have been fighting for since we took the lead. It's like it set up perfect for them.

cutthemdown
12-26-2008, 06:26 PM
Chargers= pathetic loser with no Superbowl Championships

Broncos= Superbowl Champions 2 times.

Until the Chargers bite into that record I'd say they can stick there AFC West championships right up there manginas.

Northman
12-26-2008, 06:29 PM
That is not even close to being true.


I live in San Diego and they televise all the games here (obviously). I can tell you, without a doubt that the Chargers running game as been MIA all year long. LT has like 2 or 3 100 yard games? Thats it. They dont have a running game. In fact, statistically, we have a better running game than the Chargers. Knowing that, your statement is big time false.

:welcome:


Uh, no. Any defense that plays the Chargers gameplans for LT. Opposing defenses are not scared of guys like Tatum Bell. And except for a few games LT has still been at least over 70 yds a game which means he is still having success .

Man-Goblin
12-26-2008, 06:32 PM
Chargers= pathetic loser with no Superbowl Championships

Broncos= Superbowl Champions 2 times.

Until the Chargers bite into that record I'd say they can stick there AFC West championships right up there manginas.

Whale manginas.

400HZ
12-26-2008, 07:07 PM
Rivers has had the most talented team in football around him since he was handed the starting job, and they've managed to underwhelm every single year he's been the guy in SD.

Rivers's amazing numbers, inferior to Jay's BTW, have gotten a considerable boost by the fact that defenses have been playing prevent defense by the third qtr in about 90% of their games due to how brutally inept he is when defenses are playing for real.

:stupid:

cutthemdown
12-26-2008, 07:11 PM
Whale manginas.

You really have a way of bringing my thoughts out. I just didn't consider making the Mangina a Whale Mangina. Obviously a Whale Mangina is bigger then just a Mangina and therefore more indicative of a Charger female man organ.

Are you like an editor or literary fact checker or what? Man you are good!!!!!!!

frerottenextelway
12-26-2008, 07:33 PM
Chad Pennington was criticized for not having a big arm. Big deal. He's accurate. And he wins. What has Jay Cutler won? Nothing.

What the **** has Chad Pennington ever won?

KCStud
12-26-2008, 07:52 PM
Rivers is better and should have went to the pro bowl.

They both put up the stats, though Rivers is still better, but when the game is on the line, Rivers shows up. He has more 4th quarter TD's than any QB in the league and is clutch.

Cutler is not and that was seen last week...

Inkana7
12-26-2008, 08:02 PM
Rivers is better and should have went to the pro bowl.

They both put up the stats, though Rivers is still better, but when the game is on the line, Rivers shows up. He has more 4th quarter TD's than any QB in the league and is clutch.

Cutler is not and that was seen last week...

Cutler and his 8 game winning drives in two years begs to differ. A dropped pass in the end zone hardly means he isn't clutch.

But it was a good try. Really.

Northman
12-26-2008, 08:18 PM
Cutler and his 8 game winning drives in two years begs to differ. A dropped pass in the end zone hardly means he isn't clutch.

But it was a good try. Really.


One thing we do know, Thigpen isnt clutch.

Orange_Beard
12-26-2008, 08:38 PM
Right now Jay's team is 8-7 (without a D.)
Phil's team is 7-8.

Phil's is clearly the winner and the Chargers will be the greatest 8-8 team ever.

BlaK-Argentina
12-26-2008, 08:41 PM
Rivers is better and should have went to the pro bowl.

They both put up the stats, though Rivers is still better, but when the game is on the line, Rivers shows up. He has more 4th quarter TD's than any QB in the league and is clutch.

Cutler is not and that was seen last week...

ROFL! Ha! :spit:

:notworthy

Broncobiv
12-26-2008, 09:14 PM
First of all, real quick...WHO CARES that Denver has more Super Bowl victories than SD?? This thread is about Cutler vs. Rivers, not Denver vs. SD! Lay off the lame smack-talk and think of something relevant!

Now as for the topic at hand, let me first say that I would want Cutler on my team over Rivers (and luckily I DO have him). I love Jay's arm and his never-say-die attitude. But I hate his willingness to throw into double coverage, or throw across the field and basically beg for the ball to be intercepted (it makes me absolutely puke thinking of Favre-comparisons to Cutler). But on the other hand, I hate the way that pansy Rivers shot-puts the ball out of his release, and he certainly doesn't have the cannon to put the ball into a tight spot between two defenders like Jay does.

It's almost like I admire the things Jay can do, but on the other hand, I hate him for it at the same time, and I wish he was more like Rivers. Put PART of Rivers's head on Jay's body, and WOW what a QB you'd have!

Bottom line...Jay, find the fine line between amazing, gutsy pass and stupid, risky pass, and learn which one to actually throw. In that sense, be more like Rivers (more heady). But on the other hand, Rivers wouldn't even attempt 75% of the passes you can complete, so to a point, you gotta be yourself too!

KCStud
12-26-2008, 09:20 PM
One thing we do know, Thigpen isnt clutch.

didn't realize Thipgen kicked FG's? I do remember him putting the team in great position to win

Play2win
12-26-2008, 09:21 PM
I think of Cutler as a Steve Young, Incredible talent...

A little rough in the begining, took a little time to assemble a team around him, but once the team, the scheme, and the Man all came together, full circle, the results were UNDENIABLE...

KCStud
12-26-2008, 09:27 PM
Cutler and his 8 game winning drives in two years begs to differ. A dropped pass in the end zone hardly means he isn't clutch.

But it was a good try. Really.

Actually one of them doesn't count due to Ed "I don't remember the rule book" Hochuli...

Jay has had three, count them THREE chances to get his team into the playoffs. Two of those three games were against average teams at home and your so called "clutch" QB has not won any of them.

This weekend will be his 4th try.
Say what you want. I hate Rivers more than the next AFC West rival, but he is better than Jay right now. He gets quite a few of the must wins for his team.
Winning the division every year as a starter (if he wins this year too) and having 1 playoff win to his resume is more than Cutler can say.
Rivers has beaten Jay 3 times and got screwed out of the other game due to Jay getting huge break (you know it was the wrong call Bronco fans).

This is not even an argument. If Jay was a better QB, than the game this weekend would mean nothing and the Broncos would be getting ready for the Colts in January right now

Spider
12-26-2008, 09:32 PM
didn't realize Thipgen kicked FG's? I do remember him putting the team in great position to win

you cant be this stupid ... err wait , maybe so , Cutler has put the broncos in several positions to win , only to have dropped passes , Defense collapse , Special teams go rain man etc ........ you know what never mind , you are chief fan ....

KCStud
12-26-2008, 11:36 PM
you cant be this stupid ... err wait , maybe so , Cutler has put the broncos in several positions to win , only to have dropped passes , Defense collapse , Special teams go rain man etc ........ you know what never mind , you are chief fan ....

I'm sure that INT to former Chief Kawika Mitchell was a great example of this huh?

Nobody is saying Thigpen is better than Cutler. To say Cutler is better than Rivers is pure homerism, but I wouldn't expect any different from a board full of homers.

Better passer rating, way better TD to INT ratio, better QB in the 4th quarter, more clutch wins, better completion percentage, and better leadership.

This is with Jay being sacked half the amount of times as Rivers. Cutler has a better line, just as good of receivers this year and better coaching.

My goodness the homerism never stops. As soon as Cutler wins a game that means something, than he can even sniff Rivers jock. Rivers has led his team to division titles, and playoff wins, something Cutler can't and most likely won't be able to say he can do for another year.

I'll say it again. Cutler has had THREE meaningful games that he choked away to get his team to the playoffs and TWO of them were at home to underachievers. Good QB's don't lose those games.

If Cutler doesn't win this weekend, than he has made no real progress other than being a paper champion. If he does, than he will start to become a better QB.

tsiguy96
12-27-2008, 12:10 AM
I'm sure that INT to former Chief Kawika Mitchell was a great example of this huh?

Nobody is saying Thigpen is better than Cutler. To say Cutler is better than Rivers is pure homerism, but I wouldn't expect any different from a board full of homers.

Better passer rating, way better TD to INT ratio, better QB in the 4th quarter, more clutch wins, better completion percentage, and better leadership.

This is with Jay being sacked half the amount of times as Rivers. Cutler has a better line, just as good of receivers this year and better coaching.

My goodness the homerism never stops. As soon as Cutler wins a game that means something, than he can even sniff Rivers jock. Rivers has led his team to division titles, and playoff wins, something Cutler can't and most likely won't be able to say he can do for another year.

I'll say it again. Cutler has had THREE meaningful games that he choked away to get his team to the playoffs and TWO of them were at home to underachievers. Good QB's don't lose those games.

If Cutler doesn't win this weekend, than he has made no real progress other than being a paper champion. If he does, than he will start to become a better QB.

cutler is also being asked to win these games with zero help from a running game, special teams or defense. is rivers?

Florida_Bronco
12-27-2008, 01:13 AM
When Phillip Rivers grows up, he wants to be like Jay Cutler.

Florida_Bronco
12-27-2008, 01:16 AM
you cant be this stupid ...

Believe me, yes he can. I think that guy has the IQ of someone who just stumbled out of a sheep orgy.

bpc
12-27-2008, 01:46 AM
I'm sure that INT to former Chief Kawika Mitchell was a great example of this huh?

Nobody is saying Thigpen is better than Cutler. To say Cutler is better than Rivers is pure homerism, but I wouldn't expect any different from a board full of homers.

Better passer rating, way better TD to INT ratio, better QB in the 4th quarter, more clutch wins, better completion percentage, and better leadership.

This is with Jay being sacked half the amount of times as Rivers. Cutler has a better line, just as good of receivers this year and better coaching.

My goodness the homerism never stops. As soon as Cutler wins a game that means something, than he can even sniff Rivers jock. Rivers has led his team to division titles, and playoff wins, something Cutler can't and most likely won't be able to say he can do for another year.

I'll say it again. Cutler has had THREE meaningful games that he choked away to get his team to the playoffs and TWO of them were at home to underachievers. Good QB's don't lose those games.

If Cutler doesn't win this weekend, than he has made no real progress other than being a paper champion. If he does, than he will start to become a better QB.

You're an idiot. Seriously. I don't expect you to know everything that goes on with other teams but wake up.

Rivers has had every advantage on his side over the past two or three years. Better WR's, better TE's, better OL, and better HB's. The defense has by far been better.

You claim there is no growth by Cutler if Denver loses on Sunday. That's a crock of ****. You have no idea how a QB progresses because you live in KC. Ever since the QB well in SF dried up, KC hasn't had a place to turn to when in need. As for Cutler, in his 2nd full year he's carrying this organization. Outsiders can look at the w's/l's and a few plays he's missed but he has been largely successful succeeding against terrible odds. I mean the broncos face a base defense of nickel and dime packages each week to stop Jay and Marshall.

Broncos fans should be stoked for the future because its very bright. Regardless of what happens Sunday as disappointing as it may be, we are putting the pieces together for a championship run in a season or two. We'll add a HB this offseason to provide stability in the run game and use the depth we garnered this year to buffer Jay and the passing game. The defense is still a ways away but with the offense we'll have, even an average defense will suffice.

If I was KC, I would hate Denver too so I don't really blame you.

penguintheory
12-27-2008, 02:20 AM
I'm from San Diego and most of my buddies have confided that they'd rather have Cutler than Rivers. Yes, there are real, informed Charger fans out there, and a good number of them look at Cutler's arm strength....

... and jizz, in, their pahnts.

penguintheory
12-27-2008, 02:22 AM
I might also add that Rivers has had a guy named LaDainian Tomlinson to serve as a somewhat viable ground threat to keep defenses honest.

On the other hand, Tatum Bell might be able to cut you a deal on a 3G iPhone.

Dedhed
12-27-2008, 03:50 AM
Actually one of them doesn't count due to Ed "I don't remember the rule book" Hochuli...

Jay has had three, count them THREE chances to get his team into the playoffs. Two of those three games were against average teams at home and your so called "clutch" QB has not won any of them.

This weekend will be his 4th try.
Say what you want. I hate Rivers more than the next AFC West rival, but he is better than Jay right now. He gets quite a few of the must wins for his team.
Winning the division every year as a starter (if he wins this year too) and having 1 playoff win to his resume is more than Cutler can say.
Rivers has beaten Jay 3 times and got screwed out of the other game due to Jay getting huge break (you know it was the wrong call Bronco fans).

This is not even an argument. If Jay was a better QB, than the game this weekend would mean nothing and the Broncos would be getting ready for the Colts in January right nowIf Rivers was the better QB, the Chargers would be 12-3 going into this weekend like their talent level suggests they should be.

As for Denver, they ought to be 3-12 like the Chiefs. The Broncos are basically the Chiefs with a worse running game, but they have Cutler.

Northman
12-27-2008, 05:34 AM
cutler is also being asked to win these games with zero help from a running game, special teams or defense. is rivers?


Unfortuantely KCPud will never understand that concept. There a little slow over there.

penguintheory
12-27-2008, 06:24 AM
There a little slow over there.

:nono:

Spider
12-27-2008, 06:49 AM
I'm sure that INT to former Chief Kawika Mitchell was a great example of this huh?

Nobody is saying Thigpen is better than Cutler. To say Cutler is better than Rivers is pure homerism, but I wouldn't expect any different from a board full of homers.

Better passer rating, way better TD to INT ratio, better QB in the 4th quarter, more clutch wins, better completion percentage, and better leadership.

This is with Jay being sacked half the amount of times as Rivers. Cutler has a better line, just as good of receivers this year and better coaching.

My goodness the homerism never stops. As soon as Cutler wins a game that means something, than he can even sniff Rivers jock. Rivers has led his team to division titles, and playoff wins, something Cutler can't and most likely won't be able to say he can do for another year.

I'll say it again. Cutler has had THREE meaningful games that he choked away to get his team to the playoffs and TWO of them were at home to underachievers. Good QB's don't lose those games.

If Cutler doesn't win this weekend, than he has made no real progress other than being a paper champion. If he does, than he will start to become a better QB.
LOL yeah you have to be stirring the pot , no one is this stupid . but will play along ......... So much goes into a team sport , then just one QB , I have yet to see Rivers throw the same way Cutler does , but you want to go on stats , ok fine , if a team as even the slightest heartbeat of a running game , do you think defenses defend the redzone different then a team that cant run ?
did you see the way Cutler played after Hillis got some attention ? of course you didnt , if you did you wouldnt run your pie hole like this ...
I have spent alot of time in Missouri , one thing I have noticed is stupid is everywhere there .......

400HZ
12-27-2008, 06:51 AM
I'm from San Diego and most of my buddies have confided that they'd rather have Cutler than Rivers. Yes, there are real, informed Charger fans out there, and a good number of them look at Cutler's arm strength....

... and jizz, in, their pahnts.

Cutler certainly can rifle that ball. Too bad he does it into triple coverage so often. :rofl:

And trying to say that Rivers has had some awesome or even viable run game to fall back on this year is a big fat crock of ****. 28th ranked rushing attack in the league, folks. Some crutch.

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 07:03 AM
Cutler is one of, if not the least sacked QB in the league, yet the locals want to claim he has no help. I guess all that Clady to the probowl stuff was just a bunch of crap. Hell, there was even a Hillis contingent.

I understand the concept of standing up for your QB and all. However, Cutler has made more than his fair share of poor decisions. He throws to the covered WR as much as anyone, missing guys running wide open down the field as much as any QB in the league. He is steadily having to over come his own poor decisions all the time.

There is no question Rivers is the better QB at this time. The simple reason is, he makes less mistakes. He does it with the benefit of lesser WRs.

I dont like either QBs. But let's be realistic.

Spider
12-27-2008, 07:06 AM
Cutler certainly can rifle that ball. Too bad he does it into triple coverage so often. :rofl:

And trying to say that Rivers has had some awesome or even viable run game to fall back on this year is a big fat crock of ****. 28th ranked rushing attack in the league, folks. Some crutch.

but then it all comes back to no running game , thats the reason there is triple coverage ............and Rivers had more of a run game before and after Hillis .But you also ignore the threat LT is catching the ball out of the backfield , but you are Charger fan so I expect stupidity from you , So i will help you out here , even if LT is only 25% you still have to defend him specially in short yardage , then you got Gates there is a reason why the NFL has Tight Ends , but I dont want to clutter you up with all of this at once , so for now just focus on the LT part and have a great day Amigo

Spider
12-27-2008, 07:06 AM
Cutler is one of, if not the least sacked QB in the league, yet the locals want to claim he hsa no help. I guess all that Clady to the probowl stuff was just a bunch pf crap. Hell, there was even a Hillis contingent.

I understand the concepy of syanding up for your QB and all. However, Cutler has made more than his fair share of poor decisions. He throws to the covered WR as much as anyone, missing guys running wide open down the field as mauch as any QB in the league. He is steadily having to over come his opwn poor decisions all the time.

There is no question Rivers is the better QB at this time. The simple reason is, he makes less mistakes. He does it with the benefit of better WRs.

I dont like either QBs. But let's be realistic.
Hey buddy .....how ya doing ?

Spider
12-27-2008, 07:11 AM
Cutler is one of, if not the least sacked QB in the league, yet the locals want to claim he has no help. I guess all that Clady to the probowl stuff was just a bunch of crap. Hell, there was even a Hillis contingent.

I understand the concept of standing up for your QB and all. However, Cutler has made more than his fair share of poor decisions. He throws to the covered WR as much as anyone, missing guys running wide open down the field as much as any QB in the league. He is steadily having to over come his own poor decisions all the time.

There is no question Rivers is the better QB at this time. The simple reason is, he makes less mistakes. He does it with the benefit of lesser WRs.

I dont like either QBs. But let's be realistic.
almost , Rivers has the Tight end , but when Sheff was Healthy , Cutler was looking damn good , but more then that 8 starting running backs in a season , I dont think that has ever been done before has it ?
but keeping those Running backs on the same page as Cutler would be hard wouldnt you agree ?

Circle Orange
12-27-2008, 08:12 AM
Pervy female fans want to see a nude mud match between the two qbs. Not because it's especially appealing, but because controversy is fun! Who knows, after it's over they might be friends. ;D

Circle Orange
12-27-2008, 08:12 AM
I'm from San Diego and most of my buddies have confided that they'd rather have Cutler than Rivers. Yes, there are real, informed Charger fans out there, and a good number of them look at Cutler's arm strength....

... and jizz, in, their pahnts.

Wow, they've NEVER seen a strong arm before???

tsiguy96
12-27-2008, 08:51 AM
Cutler certainly can rifle that ball. Too bad he does it into triple coverage so often. :rofl:

And trying to say that Rivers has had some awesome or even viable run game to fall back on this year is a big fat crock of ****. 28th ranked rushing attack in the league, folks. Some crutch.

based on yards. whos a bigger threat to you, the denver soon-to-be-on-ir back of the week or LT/sproles? teams have to gameplan to stop the chargers run, even if its not worthy of a gameplan. no one has to do that with broncos.

TonyR
12-27-2008, 09:26 AM
I hate the chargers and despise Rivers but there is no way around the fact that right now Rivers is a better QB than Cutler. Accept it and hope that Jay progresses and becomes the better QB next year.

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 09:29 AM
almost , Rivers has the Tight end , but when Sheff was Healthy , Cutler was looking damn good , but more then that 8 starting running backs in a season , I dont think that has ever been done before has it ?
but keeping those Running backs on the same page as Cutler would be hard wouldnt you agree ?

No doubt. 8 RBs makes it tough for the offense. But that is beside the point. The point is, Cutler is making the wrong read. IMO, sometimes there is no read. He has made up his mind before the snap where the ball is going. Then forces it. That's all on the QB. Is there the occasional wrong route by the WR? You bet. But that's with any offense. The RB has nothing to do with the fundementals of the QB play. I'm not sayibg Cutler wont get there. But for those in this thread pumping up Cutler, they forget they themselves were critical of Cutler when he makes these mistakes. The only difference here, is they are comparing him to someone else. When comparing thier development at this stage in thier carreer, you have to give it to Rivers. That's not a knock on Cutler but rather an acknowledgement to Rivers. He's playing well. Cutlers just too spotty right now.


BTW, LT has sucked this year...........bad.

Spider
12-27-2008, 09:36 AM
No doubt. 8 RBs makes it tough for the offense. But that is beside the point. The point is, Cutler is making the wrong read. IMO, sometimes there is no read. He has made up his mind before the snap where the ball is going. Then forces it. That's all on the QB. Is there the occasional wrong route by the WR? You bet. But that's with any offense. The RB has nothing to do with the fundementals of the QB play. I'm not sayibg Cutler wont get there. But for those in this thread pumping up Cutler, they forget they themselves were critical of Cutler when he makes these mistakes. The only difference here, is they are comparing him to someone else. When comparing thier development at this stage in thier carreer, you have to give it to Rivers. That's not a knock on Cutler but rather an acknowledgement to Rivers. He's playing well. Cutlers just too spotty right now.


BTW, LT has sucked this year...........bad.thats the point , how can you make the wrong read when your offense is one dimensional ? it is a case of the lesser evil , for example , if you got Champ in single coverage on a wr , but you have Bly and a couple of no names on the other , who will you take a chance on ?
every team has their best corner, on one side , and the less talented on the other and roll help to the weaker corner line backers on the T.E. with no threat of running ,well you get the point ,and even if LT has sucked , you wouldnt go into a game and ignore him , like in chess , some times the threat is greater then the execution

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 09:41 AM
thats the point , how can you make the wrong read when your offense is one dimensional ? it is a case of the lesser evil , for example , if you got Champ in single coverage on a wr , but you have Bly and a couple of no names on the other , who will you take a chance on ?
every team has their best corner, on one side , and the less talented on the other and roll help to the weaker corner line backers on the T.E. with no threat of running ,well you get the point ,and even if LT has sucked , you wouldnt go into a game and ignore him , like in chess , some times the threat is greater then the execution

You will never convince me that throwing to a WR triple covered while not throwing to a WR running wide open is anyones fault but the QBs. Your take is resembling one of a homer. Which is cool. Just dont get pissed if I dont agree with it.

Spider
12-27-2008, 09:43 AM
You will never convince me that throwing to a WR triple covered while not throwing to a WR running wide open is anyones fault but the QBs. Your take is resembling one of a homer. Which is cool. Just dont get pissed if I dont agree with it.

;D no , I am not saying cutler doesnt ever screw up , he has alot of learning to do , Iam just saying Rivers on this broncos team would do alot worse ;D

DeusExManning
12-27-2008, 09:44 AM
I have watched a lot of Chargers games living in Socal, Rivers throws just as many interceptions as Cutler, he has no mobility, a lot of his yards stat wise come from screens, take those out and Cutler is a much better QB

Inkana7
12-27-2008, 09:56 AM
Cutler certainly can rifle that ball. Too bad he does it into triple coverage so often. :rofl:

And trying to say that Rivers has had some awesome or even viable run game to fall back on this year is a big fat crock of ****. 28th ranked rushing attack in the league, folks. Some crutch.

Rifling it into triple coverage works more times than not.

And LT is still a threat. No matter what the stats say, he's still LT, and defenses respect him more than Tatum Bell.

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 09:58 AM
Here is Cutler's crutch: Defensive points allowed

Denver has given the 5th most(2nd most in the AFC) in the NFL (396pts) while San Diego has given up the 16th most @ 326.

rastaman
12-27-2008, 10:06 AM
Cutler is one of, if not the least sacked QB in the league, yet the locals want to claim he has no help. I guess all that Clady to the probowl stuff was just a bunch of crap. Hell, there was even a Hillis contingent.

I understand the concept of standing up for your QB and all. However, Cutler has made more than his fair share of poor decisions. He throws to the covered WR as much as anyone, missing guys running wide open down the field as much as any QB in the league. He is steadily having to over come his own poor decisions all the time.

There is no question Rivers is the better QB at this time. The simple reason is, he makes less mistakes. He does it with the benefit of lesser WRs.

I dont like either QBs. But let's be realistic.

When Rivers was starting two consecutive years as the SD QB......he was making the same mistakes Cutler is now making as his 2nd full years as a starting QB in the NFL!!!

If both Rivers and Cutler both had a running attack that was avg 120 plus yds and two TDs a game; my money would be on Cutler to get his team deep into the playoffs and appearances in SB's.

400HZ
12-27-2008, 10:39 AM
Rifling it into triple coverage works more times than not.

And LT is still a threat. No matter what the stats say, he's still LT, and defenses respect him more than Tatum Bell.

It works a lot of the time because of Cutler's arm strength but it also leads to interceptions. Personally I prefer the quarterback who finds the open man. To each his own, though.

Cito Pelon
12-27-2008, 10:46 AM
They're both top QB's. Rivers is certainly better statistically with 32/11 vs. Jay's 24/16. Both have cost their teams victories with INT's in the redzone this year. Rivers has stopped scoring drives in close games with INT's in the red zone, so has Cutler. They're equitable QB's, but Rivers is surrounded by a better team. Unfortunately, Shanahan can't provide a better team for Cutler.

baja
12-27-2008, 10:48 AM
I know, lets get SD's GM!

KCStud
12-27-2008, 10:56 AM
You're an idiot. Seriously. I don't expect you to know everything that goes on with other teams but wake up.

Rivers has had every advantage on his side over the past two or three years. Better WR's, better TE's, better OL, and better HB's. The defense has by far been better.

You claim there is no growth by Cutler if Denver loses on Sunday. That's a crock of ****. You have no idea how a QB progresses because you live in KC. Ever since the QB well in SF dried up, KC hasn't had a place to turn to when in need. As for Cutler, in his 2nd full year he's carrying this organization. Outsiders can look at the w's/l's and a few plays he's missed but he has been largely successful succeeding against terrible odds. I mean the broncos face a base defense of nickel and dime packages each week to stop Jay and Marshall.

Broncos fans should be stoked for the future because its very bright. Regardless of what happens Sunday as disappointing as it may be, we are putting the pieces together for a championship run in a season or two. We'll add a HB this offseason to provide stability in the run game and use the depth we garnered this year to buffer Jay and the passing game. The defense is still a ways away but with the offense we'll have, even an average defense will suffice.

If I was KC, I would hate Denver too so I don't really blame you.

Keep up little one. The discussion is right now. Last year is last year. So don't even pull the crap of having a better OL when Cutler has been sacked 11 times to Rivers 23. And Marshall/Royal have been one of the best WR combos of the year, so that doesn't hold water either.

The Broncos are a poor version of the 2003 KC Chiefs. All offense and no defense. Only difference is the KC offense won them games.

I wouldn't be too excited when looking at Ratty's record of draft picks on the defensive side of the ball.

go_broncos
12-27-2008, 11:00 AM
This discussion would not have come if we won against Buffalo.

I am really frustrated with the way our coach is handling the team since 10 years.

There is no motivation and our team doesn't understand the importance of a game.

Denver Broncos team is soft.
Look at the players we have on Defense.

I hope we draft payers like Ray Lewis.

Regarding tomorrows game..there is no hope.

My prediction

SD 41
DEN 19

KCStud
12-27-2008, 11:00 AM
Unfortuantely KCPud will never understand that concept. There a little slow over there.

And it looks like you need a lesson in english composition.

DB_champ24
12-27-2008, 11:01 AM
The Broncos are a poor version of the 2003 KC Chiefs. All offense and no defense. Only difference is the KC offense won them games.

No your wrong...A running game doesn't exist for this years Broncos, If one did exist like it did while Hillis started this whole topic wouldn't have been brought up and this game would be meaningless.

KCStud
12-27-2008, 11:02 AM
Cutler is one of, if not the least sacked QB in the league, yet the locals want to claim he has no help. I guess all that Clady to the probowl stuff was just a bunch of crap. Hell, there was even a Hillis contingent.

I understand the concept of standing up for your QB and all. However, Cutler has made more than his fair share of poor decisions. He throws to the covered WR as much as anyone, missing guys running wide open down the field as much as any QB in the league. He is steadily having to over come his own poor decisions all the time.

There is no question Rivers is the better QB at this time. The simple reason is, he makes less mistakes. He does it with the benefit of lesser WRs.

I dont like either QBs. But let's be realistic.

No freaking kidding crazy. These homers hype up Clady like he's the best in the league/draft. Same goes for Marshall and Royal.
And then they do as homers always do, turn to hypocrisy

KCStud
12-27-2008, 11:03 AM
No your wrong...A running game doesn't exist for this years Broncos, If one did exist like it did while Hillis started this whole topic wouldn't have been brought up and this game would be meaningless.

And KC had average at best WR's

Spider
12-27-2008, 11:06 AM
No your wrong...A running game doesn't exist for this years Broncos, If one did exist like it did while Hillis started this whole topic wouldn't have been brought up and this game would be meaningless.
;D yep ........buts lets give SD credit , they are the best 7-8 team everah ...

lex
12-27-2008, 11:08 AM
Rivers or Cutler (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11190751)

PRISCO: That's a tough one. But I think I'd go with Rivers. Most would say Cutler in large part because of that big arm. I prefer the guy who sees the field better, and that's Rivers. I think Rivers has quietly had a heck of a season. He's not even going to the Pro Bowl, which is a joke. Rivers has 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions, while Cutler has 24 and 16. Cutler has more passing yards, but Rivers is averaging 8.3 per attempt to 7.4 for Cutler. That disputes some of the thinking that Rivers isn't a good down-the-field thrower. Cutler's arm seduces a lot of people, and it's hard not to love. But Rivers doesn't get his due in large part because he doesn't have a rifle for an arm. But he gets it. He sees the field as well as anybody in the league. So Rivers it is.

JUDGE: Rivers. I've never been a big Cutler fan, though I love the guy's release and marvel at his ability to launch rockets. He has one of the strongest arms I've seen, but I've made myself clear on this subject: Arm strength is overrated. Chad Pennington was criticized for not having a big arm. Big deal. He's accurate. And he wins. What has Jay Cutler won? Nothing. Yeah, he throws like Randy Johnson. But he doesn't win like Randy Johnson. In fact, he hasn't won anything. Not yet anyway. Rivers was 14-2 in his first season as a starter. He went to the AFC championship game in his second season as a starter. Now he's on the verge of winning his third straight division title. So he rubs some people the wrong way. The guy is competitive, and I like that. And he's tough. He proved that in an overtime defeat of Tennessee last season, then again in the conference championship game. Oh, yeah, one other thing: He's productive. He leads the league in touchdowns and passer rating, and somebody please notify the Pro Bowl.


Let the excuses begin.

Both are great and should have been in the pro bowl.

DB_champ24
12-27-2008, 11:22 AM
And KC had average at best WR's

I'd rather have one of the best rushing attacks than good WR's. Chiefs still had one of the best TE's ever, so that kind of hurts your comparison even more.

DB_champ24
12-27-2008, 11:23 AM
;D yep ........buts lets give SD credit , they are the best 7-8 team everah ...

Haha, oh ya I forgot!! Stupid me!

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Sorry Charger's Fans--quote form your own coach that contradicts the statements that you made that the running game has 'not been a factor' this year :

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/dec/26/cutler-can-prove-hes-a-winner-against-chargers/

Chargers coach Norv Turner said that despite the fact Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers leads the league in touchdown passes (32), he has been surprised defenses still are stacking the line of scrimmage to stop Tomlinson.
"We've got to keep on finding ways to give him some space to work. We've seen a lot of eight-man fronts," Turner said. "As crazy as it sounds, as much as we've thrown the ball, as many big plays as we've made, people are still focusing in and saying, 'Hey, we've got to stop L.T. and see what happens after that.' "

So drop that 'talking point'.

400HZ
12-27-2008, 12:18 PM
Sorry Charger's Fans--quote form your own coach that contradicts the statements that you made that the running game has 'not been a factor' this year :

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/dec/26/cutler-can-prove-hes-a-winner-against-chargers/

Chargers coach Norv Turner said that despite the fact Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers leads the league in touchdown passes (32), he has been surprised defenses still are stacking the line of scrimmage to stop Tomlinson.
"We've got to keep on finding ways to give him some space to work. We've seen a lot of eight-man fronts," Turner said. "As crazy as it sounds, as much as we've thrown the ball, as many big plays as we've made, people are still focusing in and saying, 'Hey, we've got to stop L.T. and see what happens after that.' "

So drop that 'talking point'.

He said that as a lame excuse for his run game's inability to produce.

Inkana7
12-27-2008, 12:25 PM
Well, running games DO tend to have more trouble when teams stack the box against them..

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 12:35 PM
He said that as a lame excuse for his run game's inability to produce.

Nice try.

400HZ
12-27-2008, 12:36 PM
Well, running games DO tend to have more trouble when teams stack the box against them..

Oakland plays a base 8 man front now. So does Denver for the most part. That's been about it on the Chargers schedule this year. Tampa tried quite a few safety blitzes. Polamalu played closer to the line of scrimmage when we played Pittsburgh, but that's because he was locked on Gates.

Most of these coordinators aren't inept. They aren't going to sellout to stop the weakest facet of our offense. Especially when the other facet has been producing so well.

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 12:48 PM
Oakland plays a base 8 man front now. So does Denver for the most part. That's been about it on the Chargers schedule this year. Tampa tried quite a few safety blitzes. Polamalu played closer to the line of scrimmage when we played Pittsburgh, but that's because he was locked on Gates.

Most of these coordinators aren't inept. They aren't going to sellout to stop the weakest facet of our offense. Especially when the other facet has been producing so well.

Laughable. Your OWN coach contradicts your previous post, yet you insist that your summation is correct. Another benefit that Phyllis has that Jay does not is that Denver's scoring _efense is the 5th worst in football (2nd worst in the AFC), The Chargers rank as 16th worst in the NFL. So, it has been established in this post that 1) Phillip has a legitimate running threat that is validated by the fact that teams are playing a lot of 8 man fronts--so says Norv. 2) Denver's _efense is far more prone to giving up points than is SD's by almost 5 points per game--so says NFL.com statistics. more subjectively is the fact that Gates is the best TE in football and both VJ and CC are #1 type Wr's. Marshall is the best of the 4 starters with royal being the 4th best so Wr's are a wash. OL= Denver.
--in summary Advantage SD: RB, TE, DEF
Advantage DEN : OL
Conclusion--Phyllis has a much better supporting cast that combine veteran experience and all pro status and is the beneficiary of the talent around him in that other teams still DO NOT gameplan for him--so says NORV.
How anyone could say that Rivers is the better player is beyond me.

400HZ
12-27-2008, 01:00 PM
Laughable. Your OWN coach contradicts your previous post, yet you insist that your summation is correct. Another benefit that Phyllis has that Jay does not is that Denver's scoring _efense is the 5th worst in football (2nd worst in the AFC), The Chargers rank as 16th worst in the NFL. So, it has been established in this post that 1) Phillip has a legitimate running threat that is validated by the fact that teams are playing a lot of 8 man fronts--so says Norv. 2) Denver's _efense is far more prone to giving up points than is SD's by almost 5 points per game--so says NFL.com statistics. more subjectively is the fact that Gates is the best TE in football and both VJ and CC are #1 type Wr's. Marshall is the best of the 4 starters with royal being the 4th best so Wr's are a wash. OL= Denver.
--in summary Advantage SD: RB, TE, DEF
Advantage DEN : OL
Conclusion--Phyllis has a much better supporting cast that combine veteran experience and all pro status and is the beneficiary of the talent around him in that other teams still DO NOT gameplan for him--so says NORV.
How anyone could say that Rivers is the better player is beyond me.

I can tell that it's beyond you.

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 01:05 PM
I can tell that it's beyond you.

Apparently rational thought, statistics and statements made by your own coach are beyond you. We thank you for blessing us with your awesomeness. GOD himself must seek your counsel...........

Spider
12-27-2008, 01:11 PM
I can tell that it's beyond you.

:rofl: cant believe you went there

400HZ
12-27-2008, 01:22 PM
Apparently rational thought, statistics and statements made by your own coach are beyond you. We thank you for blessing us with your awesomeness. GOD himself must seek your counsel...........

Norv complained about eight man fronts last year too when teams were shutting down LT with safeties playing deep. It's an excuse. We had a great run game with Marty and it turned pathetic. The proof is in the pudding. I watched the Chargers this year and it sounds like you didn't. Eight man fronts have been few and far between, and for good reason. Give me some of your rational statistics, though. I already pointed out our awesome 28th ranked rushing attack. Trying to highlight that as a cause of the measure of offensive success that the Chargers have had this year is asinine. But since you admittedly couldn't conceive of Rivers playing better than Cutler, there isn't any point arguing with you.

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 01:38 PM
Norv complained about eight man fronts last year too when teams were shutting down LT with safeties playing deep. It's an excuse. We had a great run game with Marty and it turned pathetic. The proof is in the pudding. I watched the Chargers this year and it sounds like you didn't. Eight man fronts have been few and far between, and for good reason. Give me some of your rational statistics, though. I already pointed out our awesome 28th ranked rushing attack. Trying to highlight that as a cause of the measure of offensive success that the Chargers have had this year is asinine. But since you admittedly couldn't conceive of Rivers playing better than Cutler, there isn't any point arguing with you.

again--S-L-O-W-L-Y
-Your own coach stated that teams still come out gameplanning for LT with 8 man fronts--do I need to explain to you the advantages of throwing against 8 man fronts? --Apparently you STILL HAVE NOT GRASPED the advantages as evidenced by your comment highlighted above

-The Broncos defense is 2nd worst in the conference(5th in the NFL) in terms of scoring defense, SD is 16th in the NFL.

As I noted before, Denver has the advantage @ OL ONLY. SD has the best TE in Football, a better Defense than Denver, a better RB combo and more than capable WR's. Phyllis's stats are only marginally better while he plays with the luxury of having teams gameplan AGAINST HIS STARTING TAILBACK. Jay carries the water for Denver and until we get a RB talented enough to feature and a scoring defense in the top half of the league, you have no argument.

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 02:01 PM
How does LT effect Cutlers poor decision making?

Just curious.

You guys are the 1st to go off the deep end when he makes these mistakes on Sunday. But by Wednesday he played a mistake free game. He is the same QB you were bitching about on the previous 15 Sundays folks.

Now that he is being compared to someone, he is suddenly a better QB. How has your own opinion changed since Sunday when he hasn't taken a snap?

Nothing Norv Turner said translates into Cutler performing at a higher level than is Rivers. The only thing that would translate into him playing better would be better play at the QB position.

I can tell you this. Injuries never make a difference. O line never makes a difference. RB never makes a difference. WRs never make a difference. When it another teams fans making these same points. Why does it suddenly carry weight when you make the same "excuses"?

Here is a challenge that will give you a better idea if your bias is getting in the way of your reasoning.

I challenge you to put up a thread on another teams board. Put a thread on a teams board that has nothing invested. Go to a Jets board. Or a Bengal board or any other team you choose that has no agenda. Put up a poll of whose QB is better. Do that on 5 message boards and come back with your findings.

Just dont be disappointed if you dont get the answers you want. You're not going to find many arguements outside a Broncos forum that will argue Cutler playing at a higher level than Rivers.

I think you know what the answer will be. Now who has the stones to do it?

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:13 PM
How does LT effect Cutlers poor decision making?

Just curious.



simple , if more defenders have to defend against the draw or a screen pass, the less defenders covering receivers

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:15 PM
I can tell you this. Injuries never make a difference. O line never makes a difference. RB never makes a difference. WRs never make a difference. When it another teams fans making these same points. Why does it suddenly carry weight when you make the same "excuses"? Bull what have we done since TD left ? we havent dominated no where near that level ........

Here is a challenge that will give you a better idea if your bias is getting in the way of your reasoning.

I challenge you to put up a thread on another teams board. Put a thread on a teams board that has nothing invested. Go to a Jets board. Or a Bengal board or any other team you choose that has no agenda. Put up a poll of whose QB is better. Do that on 5 message boards and come back with your findings.

Just dont be disappointed if you dont get the answers you want. You're not going to find many arguements outside a Broncos forum that will argue Cutler playing at a higher level than Rivers.

I think you know what the answer will be. Now who has the stones to do it?
i wont do that ...... i really dont care what other fans of different teams think

Br0nc0Buster
12-27-2008, 02:16 PM
I think this year is a good year to compare where the two are at.

Rivers has:
crappy defense
bad running game
great special teams
OK oline and talented receivers.

Cutler has:
god awful defense(worse than SDs)
bad running game
bad special teams
great oline with talented receivers.

And both qbs will have an 8-8 mark after for this year.
Rivers in the past had so much more to work with, when he has to play on a team with no running game and no defense, well he still plays well, but his team doesnt win as much.

So both qbs are good, but neither are good enough to constantly make up for defecencies elsewhere. I would personally take Cutler because I think he has more upside, but he is a bit raw and Rivers is going to be a good qb for a long time.

But I think saying Rivers is a lot better than Cutler, or visa versa would be incorrect right now. But at the same time it is dumb to compare records because their teams have not been similar until now.

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 02:18 PM
Bull what have we done since TD left ? we havent dominated no where near that level ........


i wont do that ...... i really dont care what other fans of different teams think

Yeah....I knew you wouldn't. No Bronco fan that knows what he'll find will do it. It will take someone who actually believes his own BS to do it. I dont think you believe your own BS.

That's a compliment BTW.

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 02:21 PM
How does LT effect Cutlers poor decision making?

Just curious.

You guys are the 1st to go off the deep end when he makes these mistakes on Sunday. But by Wednesday he played a mistake free game. He is the same QB you were b****ing about on the previous 15 Sundays folks.

Now that he is being compared to someone, he is suddenly a better QB. How has your own opinion changed since Sunday when he hasn't taken a snap?

Nothing Norv Turner said translates into Cutler performing at a higher level than is Rivers. The only thing that would translate into him playing better would be better play at the QB position.

I can tell you this. Injuries never make a difference. O line never makes a difference. RB never makes a difference. WRs never make a difference. When it another teams fans making these same points. Why does it suddenly carry weight when you make the same "excuses"?

Here is a challenge that will give you a better idea if your bias is getting in the way of your reasoning.

I challenge you to put up a thread on another teams board. Put a thread on a teams board that has nothing invested. Go to a Jets board. Or a Bengal board or any other team you choose that has no agenda. Put up a poll of whose QB is better. Do that on 5 message boards and come back with your findings.

Just dont be disappointed if you dont get the answers you want. You're not going to find many arguements outside a Broncos forum that will argue Cutler playing at a higher level than Rivers.

I think you know what the answer will be. Now who has the stones to do it?

The point is --Rivers does not HAVE TO PLAY better than Jay because he has more around him than Jay. I wrote previously how it is not possible to say that Phyllis is better than Jay being that Jay has much more of a burden to carry, namely a 2nd worst in the AFC scoring defense (thank goodness for KC) and no consistent running threat that forces team to play 8-in-the-box. You give Jay one less player to account for in the secondary and those 'bad decisions' are open WR's.

BigBad
12-27-2008, 02:24 PM
If anyone here thinks the Chargers have had a consistent running game this year then you have NOT been watching. Our running game has been pathetic and Rivers has to pretty much carry us.

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Yeah....I knew you wouldn't. No Bronco fan that knows what he'll find will do it. It will take someone who actually believes his own BS to do it. I dont think you believe your own BS.

That's a compliment BTW.

:wiggle: what can I say ......I am in full season mode ........But I dont think the average fan out there has had enough exposure to either Cuter or Rivers to make an informed decision ......just like if someone approached me and asked who is better Castle or Light ? I really couldnt give an honest opinion cause I havent seen enough of either to make that choice ........

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:27 PM
If anyone here thinks the Chargers have had a consistent running game this year then you have NOT been watching. Our running game has been pathetic and Rivers has to pretty much carry us.

hello stupid.... the threat of a running game , you mean to tell me that teams playing the Chargers dont play against the run ? Even when TD had 1 leg , teams still defended against him ...........

Br0nc0Buster
12-27-2008, 02:28 PM
If anyone here thinks the Chargers have had a consistent running game this year then you have NOT been watching. Our running game has been pathetic and Rivers has to pretty much carry us.

yeah and now you know what it is like to have a young qb on a team with no running game and no defense.
Welcome to Jay's world.

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 02:29 PM
How does LT effect Cutlers poor decision making?

Just curious.





Here's the cure for your curiosity--by stating that Cutler makes poor decisions, you are inferring that he is forcing the ball into receivers who are covered, my contention is that if we faced 8 man fronts to the degree that Phyllis does, those covered WR's would be more likely to be open and those 'bad decisions' become completions. Futher, our defense gives up almost 27 points/game while SD's give up almost 22---a 5 point deficit ON AVERAGE that has to be made up during the course of a game. In summary--Cutler faces one extra player in the secondary more often than Rivers and is more likely to be in a position to HAVE to score points for his team to win --who do you think bares more risk for throwing interceptions/making 'bad decisions'?

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 02:31 PM
If anyone here thinks the Chargers have had a consistent running game this year then you have NOT been watching. Our running game has been pathetic and Rivers has to pretty much carry us.

And why don't you have a consistent runniNG game? COULD IT BE BECAUSE TEAMS ARE PLAYING 8 MAN FRONTS AGAINST YOU MUCH OF THE TIME!?!?!?!?

BigBad
12-27-2008, 02:31 PM
hello stupid.... the threat of a running game , you mean to tell me that teams playing the Chargers dont play against the run ? Even when TD had 1 leg , teams still defended against him ...........

No because unlike you they are WATCHING GAME FILM!!! We actually are seeing less stacked lines then ever. Im telling you there really insnt much of a threat this year and Defenses know it.

Look at our red zone efficiency. It has dropped along with our running game. Rivers had ZERO red zone INTs before this year. He never before HAD to throw in the Red Zone, he just handed it to LT. No more.

BigBad
12-27-2008, 02:33 PM
And why don't you have a consistent runniNG game? COULD IT BE BECAUSE TEAMS ARE PLAYING 8 MAN FRONTS AGAINST YOU ALOT OF THE TIME!?!?!?!?

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/11192301

Not that I totally agree but it has been bad this year.

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 02:33 PM
No because unlike you they are WATCHING GAME FILM!!! We actually are seeing less stacked lines then ever. Im telling you there really insnt much of a threat this year and Defenses know it.

Look at our red zone efficiency. It has dropped along with our running game. Rivers had ZERO red zone INTs before this year. He never before HAD to throw in the Red Zone, he just handed it to LT. No more.

YOUR OWN ****ING COACH DISAGREES WITH YOU DOUCHE BAG.

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 02:33 PM
The point is --Rivers does not HAVE TO PLAY better than Jay because he has more around him than Jay. I wrote previously how it is not possible to say that Phyllis is better than Jay being that Jay has much more of a burden to carry, namely a 2nd worst in the AFC scoring defense (thank goodness for KC) and no consistent running threat that forces team to play 8-in-the-box. You give Jay one less player to account for in the secondary and those 'bad decisions' are open WR's.

The difference being that Rivers has no WRs. If you want to claim Cutler has no help then you are saying Marshall and Royal are no better than what Rivers has to throw to.

See how that works?

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:33 PM
No because unlike you they are WATCHING GAME FILM!!! We actually are seeing less stacked lines then ever. Im telling you there really insnt much of a threat this year and Defenses know it.

Look at our red zone efficiency. It has dropped along with our running game. Rivers had ZERO red zone INTs before this year. He never before HAD to throw in the Red Zone, he just handed it to LT. No more.
you are such an idiot ....... never mind some one already posted Norvs remarks ...

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 02:35 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/11192301

Not that I totally agree but it has been bad this year.

WHAT THE HECK DID YOUR OWN COACH SAY? WHO WOULD POSSIBLY KNOW YOUR TEAM BETTER THAN YOUR OWN COACH--HONESTLY--the intellectual dishonesty of you guys trying to make a point when the point has been refuted by YOUR OWN coach is mind boggling.

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 02:35 PM
Here's the cure for your curiosity--by stating that Cutler makes poor decisions, you are inferring that he is forcing the ball into receivers who are covered, my contention is that if we faced 8 man fronts to the degree that Phyllis does, those covered WR's would be more likely to be open and those 'bad decisions' become completions. Futher, our defense gives up almost 27 points/game while SD's give up almost 22---a 5 point deficit ON AVERAGE that has to be made up during the course of a game. In summary--Cutler faces one extra player in the secondary more often than Rivers and is more likely to be in a position to HAVE to score points for his team to win --who do you think bares more risk for throwing interceptions/making 'bad decisions'?


My contention is that he forces the ball into triple covereage while other WRs run wide open.

BigBad
12-27-2008, 02:36 PM
YOUR OWN ****ING COACH DISAGREES WITH YOU DOUCHE BAG.

He is kissing LTs azz......

broncofan7
12-27-2008, 02:36 PM
The difference being that Rivers has no WRs. If you want to claim Cutler has no help then you are saying Marshall and Royal are no better than what Rivers has to throw to.

See how that works?

No Wr's ? Chris Chambers was a former #1 for MIA and Vincent Jackson is himself the #1 for SD this year--they have a #1a and a #1b. Granted Marshall is better than both of them, but CC and VJ are better than Royal. The WR position is a wash for both teams.

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:37 PM
here it is in a nut shell for sparkler fans .......
Defense sees Sproles or LT they think we got to tackle them ....
Defenses see Bell and they say . Hey i wonder if he can get me a sweet deal on a blackberry ....... Nuff said

BigBad
12-27-2008, 02:39 PM
here it is in a nut shell for sparkler fans .......
Defense sees Sproles or LT they think we got to tackle them ....
Defenses see Bell and they say . Hey i wonder if he can get me a sweet deal on a blackberry ....... Nuff said

I never said your run game was anything. My point is that the Chargers' is NO WHERE NEAR what it was last year. NO WHERE.

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 02:40 PM
No Wr's ? Chris Chambers was a former #1 for MIA and Vincent Jackson is himself the #1 for SD this year--they have a #1a and a #1b. Granted Marshall is better than both of them, but CC and VJ are better than Royal. The WR position is a wash for both teams.

Okee dokee.

Nice talkin' to ya.

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:41 PM
I wonder if I should get a blackberry ?

crazyhorse
12-27-2008, 02:46 PM
I wonder if I should get a blackberry ?

I hear Bell might make you a good deal on a game worn jock. A blackberry is perhaps a little high tech for you, eh spider?

BigBad
12-27-2008, 02:47 PM
I wonder if I should get a blackberry ?

Just keep making excuses for your wonder boy. The truth is he is NOT clutch, inaccurate and a borderline head case. But his big arm makes us drool.:strong: Great QBs do NOT need a running game against the Bills AT HOME with the division on the line. Sorry man all the excuses in the world dont save him from that.

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:49 PM
I hear Bell might make you a good deal on a game worn jock. A blackberry is perhaps a little high tech for you, eh spider?

LOL , yeah + with age my eyes ..they are not what they used to be

Spider
12-27-2008, 02:50 PM
Just keep making excuses for your wonder boy. The truth is he is NOT clutch, inaccurate and a borderline head case. But his big arm makes us drool.:strong: Great QBs do NOT need a running game against the Bills with the division on the line. Sorry man all the excuses in the world dont save him from that.

If i want any lip from you boy , I will scrape it off my zipper ........until then pipe down

Northman
12-27-2008, 02:51 PM
He said that as a lame excuse for his run game's inability to produce.

Oh yea, because we all know you know more than the coaches on the field. Ha! Ha!

baja
12-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Just keep making excuses for your wonder boy. The truth is he is NOT clutch, inaccurate and a borderline head case. But his big arm makes us drool.:strong: Great QBs do NOT need a running game against the Bills AT HOME with the division on the line. Sorry man all the excuses in the world dont save him from that.

if that is the case wont it suck when he beats your team tomorrow.

DaFace
12-27-2008, 03:12 PM
I'm not sure I have anything to add that hasn't been addressed in one form or another, but here's my (relatively) unbiased opinion. For the record, I despise both the Broncos and the Chargers (as a Chiefs fan), but live in Denver and am married into a family of Broncos fans, so I've seen Cutler play a bit more than Rivers.

If I had to choose a quarterback to try and lead my team TODAY, I'd probably have to take Rivers. Overall, he's more consistent and is able to read defenses better than Cutler. Is that due to the extra experience he has in the NFL? Possibly. But he seems to have learned everything a bit more quickly than Cutler even from the beginning. Of course, it helped that he had such a great running game for the first few years to give him the extra time he needed to focus on making the play rather than getting away from the next defender that was about to hit him from the blindside.

Cutler wins hands-down on raw ability, but he's just not as consistent TODAY. He's got one hell of an arm and seems to have the ability to fit balls into places where NO ONE should be throwing them in the first place. He reminds me a bit of a young Favre. He's got all the abilities in the world, but he tends to make poor decisions fairly frequently that are limiting his success. He COULD be scary in the league, depending on whether he can learn when to take chances and when to just play it safe.

So, in summary, Rivers is a very good quarterback who will likely lead some very good teams during his career. But I'll be VERY surprised if he ever ends up in the HoF or anything. Cutler has the potential to be an elite quarterback in the league if he can get some things figured out. He COULD be a HoF player. Or, he may never get it figured out and may forever be an above average QB. Only time will tell.

Oh, and in terms of attitude, I really don't like either of them at all. Rivers is an unsubstantiated pompous asshole, and Cutler whines every time something isn't going his way. Both of 'em need a swift kick to the rear.

DaFace
12-27-2008, 03:14 PM
Wow...you guys censor asshole? That's a bit overkill.

Spider
12-27-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm not sure I have anything to add that hasn't been addressed in one form or another, but here's my (relatively) unbiased opinion. For the record, I despise both the Broncos and the Chargers (as a Chiefs fan), but live in Denver and am married into a family of Broncos fans, so I've seen Cutler play a bit more than Rivers.

If I had to choose a quarterback to try and lead my team TODAY, I'd probably have to take Rivers. Overall, he's more consistent and is able to read defenses better than Cutler. Is that due to the extra experience he has in the NFL? Possibly. But he seems to have learned everything a bit more quickly than Cutler even from the beginning. Of course, it helped that he had such a great running game for the first few years to give him the extra time he needed to focus on making the play rather than getting away from the next defender that was about to hit him from the blindside.

Cutler wins hands-down on raw ability, but he's just not as consistent TODAY. He's got one hell of an arm and seems to have the ability to fit balls into places where NO ONE should be throwing them in the first place. He reminds me a bit of a young Favre. He's got all the abilities in the world, but he tends to make poor decisions fairly frequently that are limiting his success. He COULD be scary in the league, depending on whether he can learn when to take chances and when to just play it safe.

So, in summary, Rivers is a very good quarterback who will likely lead some very good teams during his career. But I'll be VERY surprised if he ever ends up in the HoF or anything. Cutler has the potential to be an elite quarterback in the league if he can get some things figured out. He COULD be a HoF player. Or, he may never get it figured out and may forever be an above average QB. Only time will tell.

Oh, and in terms of attitude, I really don't like either of them at all. Rivers is an unsubstantiated pompous a-hole, and Cutler whines every time something isn't going his way. Both of 'em need a swift kick to the rear.

As an official member of the Orange mane welcome Wagon , I would like to thank you for your contribution to the community known as the orange mane , enjoy your stay just dont make it to long

Spider
12-27-2008, 03:19 PM
Wow...you guys censor a-hole? That's a bit overkill.

with people like me posting here ? :rofl: no it isnt over kill

baja
12-27-2008, 03:24 PM
I'm not sure I have anything to add that hasn't been addressed in one form or another, but here's my (relatively) unbiased opinion. For the record, I despise both the Broncos and the Chargers (as a Chiefs fan), but live in Denver and am married into a family of Broncos fans, so I've seen Cutler play a bit more than Rivers.

If I had to choose a quarterback to try and lead my team TODAY, I'd probably have to take Rivers. Overall, he's more consistent and is able to read defenses better than Cutler. Is that due to the extra experience he has in the NFL? Possibly. But he seems to have learned everything a bit more quickly than Cutler even from the beginning. Of course, it helped that he had such a great running game for the first few years to give him the extra time he needed to focus on making the play rather than getting away from the next defender that was about to hit him from the blindside.

Cutler wins hands-down on raw ability, but he's just not as consistent TODAY. He's got one hell of an arm and seems to have the ability to fit balls into places where NO ONE should be throwing them in the first place. He reminds me a bit of a young Favre. He's got all the abilities in the world, but he tends to make poor decisions fairly frequently that are limiting his success. He COULD be scary in the league, depending on whether he can learn when to take chances and when to just play it safe.

So, in summary, Rivers is a very good quarterback who will likely lead some very good teams during his career. But I'll be VERY surprised if he ever ends up in the HoF or anything. Cutler has the potential to be an elite quarterback in the league if he can get some things figured out. He COULD be a HoF player. Or, he may never get it figured out and may forever be an above average QB. Only time will tell.

Oh, and in terms of attitude, I really don't like either of them at all. Rivers is an unsubstantiated pompous a-hole, and Cutler whines every time something isn't going his way. Both of 'em need a swift kick to the rear.

He's kidding stay as long as you want (what the hell we got Bob)

That IMO is an excellent assessment of the two QB's at this juncture.

400HZ
12-27-2008, 09:20 PM
Oh yea, because we all know you know more than the coaches on the field. Ha! Ha!

Than Norv? Maybe.

400HZ
12-28-2008, 08:07 AM
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Orange_Beard
12-28-2008, 08:22 AM
Just keep making excuses for your wonder boy. The truth is he is NOT clutch, inaccurate and a borderline head case. But his big arm makes us drool.:strong: Great QBs do NOT need a running game against the Bills AT HOME with the division on the line. Sorry man all the excuses in the world dont save him from that.


Buffalo 23 SD 14.

Guess your great QB could not do it either.

Dedhed
12-28-2008, 08:23 AM
Rivers was handed the BEST team in the league when he started, and every year that the team has become more his, they've gotten worse.

That's not coincidence, it's simply the truth.

BreesLightning
12-28-2008, 08:25 AM
The amount of homerism in this thread blows my mind. The numbers don't lie folks.

Orange_Beard
12-28-2008, 08:25 AM
That is not even close to being true.


I live in San Diego and they televise all the games here (obviously). I can tell you, without a doubt that the Chargers running game as been MIA all year long. LT has like 2 or 3 100 yard games? Thats it. They dont have a running game. In fact, statistically, we have a better running game than the Chargers. Knowing that, your statement is big time false.

:welcome:

Funny, LT has a monster year the Chargers a 14-2.
Phillip has a monster year the Chargers are 7-8.

Hmmmmm

broncofan7
12-28-2008, 08:27 AM
The amount of homerism in this thread blows my mind. The numbers don't lie folks.

Read my posts. I won't even charge you, the education is free.

Orange_Beard
12-28-2008, 08:27 AM
The amount of homerism in this thread blows my mind. The numbers don't lie folks.

You are a dip ****. Where are you genius? It's the Orangemane, #1 Bronco site on the net. Are you expecting "far and balanced"? Say no to drugs.

Orange_Beard
12-28-2008, 08:29 AM
Rivers was handed the BEST team in the league when he started, and every year that the team has become more his, they've gotten worse.

That's not coincidence, it's simply the truth.

Solid point. I think that there are about 5 Bronco players that could start on the Chagers(on both sides of the ball)

Spider
12-28-2008, 08:29 AM
Read my posts. I won't even charge you, the education is free.

LOL you are all heart bro

400HZ
12-28-2008, 08:32 AM
Solid point. I think that there are about 5 Bronco players that could start on the Chagers(on both sides of the ball)

Jay's offensive line?

I'd say there are more than that.

Orange_Beard
12-28-2008, 08:38 AM
Jay's offensive line?

I'd say there are more than that.

Name them,
Champ, BMarshall, Ryan Clady, Harris, Culter(Of course this is what the thread is about) Doom(if he could play a Linebacker role)

Who am I missing?

Play2win
12-28-2008, 08:39 AM
Wasn't Rivers a 4 year starter in College? So what does that give him 10 year experience... Cutler just needs more experience, which is what he is getting right now... Didn't Drew Brees take a while to really get going...

BigBad
12-28-2008, 08:49 AM
Funny, LT has a monster year the Chargers a 14-2.
Phillip has a monster year the Chargers are 7-8.

Hmmmmm

Defense wins championships......

Merrimans monster year was as important as LTs when we went 14-2.

400HZ
12-28-2008, 08:52 AM
Name them,
Champ, BMarshall, Ryan Clady, Harris, Culter(Of course this is what the thread is about) Doom(if he could play a Linebacker role)

Who am I missing?

I'd take your offensive line except for Hamilton. I'd take Graham over Manumaleuna if I didn't have to pay him $30 million. I'd take Royal over Chambers. You can keep Marshall. Peyton Hillis. Give me Wesley Woodyard. Champ. Either one of your DTs instead of Olshansky. There's 10 guys for you. And no, I don't want Cutler.

Orange_Beard
12-28-2008, 08:53 AM
Defense wins championships......

Merrimans monster year was as important as LTs when we went 14-2.

Not in your case!

400HZ
12-28-2008, 09:37 AM
Everybody on Sunday Countdown said they like Rivers over Cutler. Even Tommy! hmmm...

BlaK-Argentina
12-28-2008, 09:40 AM
Everybody on Sunday Countdown said they like Rivers over Cutler. Even Tommy! hmmm...

We'll see tonight. :)

Inkana7
12-28-2008, 09:40 AM
Chargers are the flavor of the month. Cutler was last moth and in September.

DHallblows
12-28-2008, 09:40 AM
Defense wins championships......

Merrimans monster year was as important as LTs when we went 14-2.

Along with nandrolone...

cabronco
12-28-2008, 10:12 AM
Everybody on Sunday Countdown said they like Rivers over Cutler. Even Tommy! hmmm...

I think thats more of an implication of how each Qb's team has been doing the last few weeks. Rivers has been the more efficient qb lately. Prior to the last few weeks and majority of the season, Cutler's been the better Qb imo. He's done more with a banged up Rb system & banged up receivers & 28th ranked defense than Rivers has with one of the top back fields & decent defenses. With the talent level all around Rivers , Rb's, receivers, TE's , O-line, their record shouldnt be what it is.

ChampJesusBailey
12-28-2008, 10:36 AM
I'll say it again... numbers prove that when SD has to throw more this season, they lose. When they have a good rush attack and Rivers doesn't have to throw as much, they are undefeated.

25 throws or less: 135 rush yards per game, undefeated
26+ throws: 86 rush yards per game, .334 winning percentage

I would love to see how Rivers would do if Tomlinson, Hester and Sproles are all on IR, Gates misses considerable time, and they have all the injuries on defense Denver had. And then after all that you still have the fact that Rivers spent 2 years on the bench learning while Cutler got thrown in halfway through his rookie season while learning from Joke Plummer.

The fact that it's even up for discussion speaks volumes for Cutler.

BreesLightning
12-28-2008, 12:28 PM
Good video on the subject http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80dac5fd

bloodsunday
12-28-2008, 01:54 PM
Rivers has also fared better in marquee match-ups. Cutler played well against Tenn last year, but has had some real stinkers, as well.

Jay needs to grow up and learn to be a consistent leader. He's overflowing with talent. No question, there. The question is that if we get down a couple of scores... can he keep his head up, keep his mechanics in order and lead his team like Rivers did against K.C..

This is a little harsh. First of all, Rivers will never have to live up to an Elway. Secondly, Rivers has two more years in the league under his belt as an apprentice. And finally, his supporting cast is better than Cutler's (no questions asked).

Our D is on pace to give up 400 pts, more than 6 yards per play, and generate an NFL RECORD LOW TURNOVERS. What QB could possibly be expected to win in those circumstances?! Buffalo started every drive at the 40 or better last week (almost) and the D allowed them to score in 3 - 5 plays the entire second half. Of course Cutler made mistakes, he has to score every time he touches the field! And between giving up 25 pts a game and the injuries, the running game is useless. More QBs than Cutler have failed under such circumstances.

This is a recipe to burn out a QB more than it is a test of his character, IMO. It's one thing to expect a guy to play one or two games in such a fashion, but to ask a QB to live with such razor thin circumstances every week is just unreasonable.

400HZ
12-29-2008, 12:31 AM
Maybe next year fellas.

Popps
12-29-2008, 12:38 AM
This is a recipe to burn out a QB more than it is a test of his character, IMO. It's one thing to expect a guy to play one or two games in such a fashion, but to ask a QB to live with such razor thin circumstances every week is just unreasonable.

Great point. I agree, and we saw (briefly) how much more effective Cutler was when he had Hillis pounding the ball for him. Imagine a competent NFL defense on the other side of the ball.

Cutler shouldn't HAVE to carry this team every week. Elway didn't have to, once we got it all together.

That said, he's got to make better decision than he did down the stretch this year. He undid so much great work with a few lazy throws.

We need to put a real team around him. It's the same story it's been for years.

mhgaffney
12-29-2008, 01:25 AM
At least half (my guestimate) of Cutler's interceptions this year were throws to Marshall.

Obviously, this is a major problem. But is the problem with Cutler? Or Marshall?

IMO, Marshall is mostly responsible. He makes way tooo many mental mistakes.

I saw no growth -- no improvement in his play this year. If anything -- Marshall regressed.

Can someone sit this kid down and teach him to play smart football? The coaches need to work with him this off season.

If he can't learn -- then -- I hate to say it -- but he must go.

Circle Orange
12-29-2008, 05:27 AM
Everybody on Sunday Countdown said they like Rivers over Cutler. Even Tommy! hmmm...

Well, at least he's consistent and hasn't changed his opinion. Earlier in the year he said he thought Cutler had regressed although initially he liked his play.

No one really knows how anyone's career will go. People can cherry pick stats and numbers to make any point you want. Ultimately, it's how clutch you are in situations. Do you make plays when they count? All I know is, when Jay was hot he was surrounded by 'exciting young talent'. Now, everyone is mediocre because he struggled late. There must be a lot of sore ankles this month, jumping from one conclusion to another. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/smilies/bandwagon.gif

toad
12-29-2008, 05:29 AM
Ultimately, it's how clutch you are in situations. Do you make plays when they count?

Rivers is 14-0 as a starter in the month of December....intersesting stat there.

Orange_Beard
12-29-2008, 06:30 AM
I'd take your offensive line except for Hamilton. Either one of your DTs instead of Olshansky. There's 10 guys for you. And no, I don't want Cutler.

Funny, the players you want to drop, dominated the players you want to bring on.............

Hulamau
04-04-2009, 03:55 AM
Jay needs to grow up and learn to be a consistent leader. He's overflowing with talent. No question, there. The question is that if we get down a couple of scores... can he keep his head up, keep his mechanics in order and lead his team like Rivers did against K.C..

Until then, don't expect the rest of the football world to take the homeristic view of the situation that we do around here. I think Jay can end up a much better QB than Rivers. Let's hope he does.

Yep Popps, don't mind seeing Cutler out perform Rivers from here on out at all, even if Cutler stinks it up in Chicago :peace:

JJJ
04-04-2009, 04:01 AM
Probably a good point here to let you all start offically apologizing to Rivers.

Commence to start.

400HZ
04-04-2009, 06:49 AM
This was a good read. Thanks. :)