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elsid13
12-23-2008, 08:48 AM
I know we have debated this to death, but I was thinking how hard is it really to move to the 3/4. I read that we don't have the players, it to hard the right personnel etc but I did a little mental simulation and modeling to see if we could do it one year.

Tell me if my logic is ****ed up, since I think we can do it in four outside moves. (* indicates a move). Outside move means that we don't have the resource in house to make the change.


Line:

-Move Thomas, Robinson and Peterson to DE. Denver as already done this season so they all have experience doing it. Robinson can also cycle inside when he needs to

-Sign Ronalds Field (NT #325) from SF. He young player (27) having a good season and has two guys in front of him ~Franklin and Sopoaga *

-Sign Canty from Dallas for depth and rotation.*

-Draft Terrence "Mount" Cody from Alabama. He should be available in area of the draft where Denver sits *

-Keep Clemons or Shaw through TC to see who is most flexible to be a backup NT/DE

-Use Moss and Crowder in nickle/dime packages when Denver goes 4 down linemen in passing downs.

-Trade Dumervil to cover 2 team. I know that sucks but he's young and cheap which make a good trade candidate.

That move Denver from small defense line that holding up the offense line for the LB to make plays to a big defense (300 plus across the board) that holding up the offense line to let the LB make plays

LB:

-Keep both Boss and DJ at outside backers. Both are in the 240 range which while little small but is in range with guys like Porter (250) and Copper SD (235). Plus I think they have the speed to make a difference.

-Move Larson to inside backer. Plays to his strength of moving down field into the gap and and short zone. Plus he is a good blitzer up the middle. Like Trotter who I compare him to.

-Draft LB Worrell Williams (CAL) in the Fourth. Can play inside next to his brother and has good speed. *

-Keep Winborn, Green Niko Koutouvides, for depth and ST. Denver should also attempt to find another inside LB can that play.

- Move Woodyard into nickle LB role with DJ/Boss and bulk him up a little to play inside. Since Denver is in nickle/dime 40% of the time that make sure he see the field (EDIT MISSED ON COPY AND PASTE 1st time around)
LB are slightly on small side (about 245 across the starting 4) but do have more speed then most teams and can make plays.

Traveler
12-23-2008, 09:00 AM
What happens to Woodyard?

elsid13
12-23-2008, 09:08 AM
What happens to Woodyard?

The copy and paste missed him.

Move Woodyard into nickle LB role with DJ/Boss and bulk him up a little to play inside. Since Denver is in nickle/dime 40% of the time that make sure he see the field.

Rohirrim
12-23-2008, 09:13 AM
It always seems to me (just from watching games) that a 3-4 creates more pressure on the QB, more sacks, and more TOs. I wonder if the stats prove that out? Just as a fan who gets more enjoyment watching D than O, I prefer the 3-4. Seems to produce more fireworks. Let's face it, sacks and TOs are the home run balls of a D. If your D is not producing them, you are not only boring, you're probably not holding up your end of the field by giving your O some momentum when it needs it. Hell, look at how many bad teams have just marched down the field on the Broncos. The Chefs put an 8 minute, 80 yard drive on Shanahan's D. That's got to leave a mark. The nice thing about a base 3-4 is that it gives you all sorts of options and looks to choose from. As it is right now, the Broncos' D gives opposing QBs very little to think about.

longtimer
12-23-2008, 10:19 AM
History leason...

Go back to the eightys and see wich defense was better. The AFC ran the 3 4 defense and the NFC ran the 4 3 the AFC lost every year to the NFC because the NFC had centers that could handle the NT with out any help. That is the weakness of the 3-4 defense is right up the gut if your center can do the job.

Denver use to be a very good 3-4 Defensive team back in the day and would get blown out in the Super bowls.

Just fix our current scheme and get a center that can block the NT without any help and we will crush these 3-4 defenses.

Rohirrim
12-23-2008, 10:23 AM
Well, that's the trick of the 3-4: Find a dominating NT. Not too easy to do.

broncofan7
12-23-2008, 10:35 AM
History leason...

Go back to the eightys and see wich defense was better. The AFC ran the 3 4 defense and the NFC ran the 4 3 the AFC lost every year to the NFC because the NFC had centers that could handle the NT with out any help. That is the weakness of the 3-4 defense is right up the gut if your center can do the job.

Denver use to be a very good 3-4 Defensive team back in the day and would get blown out in the Super bowls.

Just fix our current scheme and get a center that can block the NT without any help and we will crush these 3-4 defenses.

NY Giants.

lex
12-23-2008, 11:02 AM
It seems that we've had a lot more luck with drafting LBs. Maybe this isnt such a bad idea.

Rohirrim
12-23-2008, 11:37 AM
Drafting Terrence Cody would be the key. He'll probably climb the boards after he shows his strength and agility at the Combine. I want him or Jeria Peters whether the Broncos go 3-4 or not.

elsid13
12-23-2008, 11:53 AM
Drafting Terrence Cody would be the key. He'll probably climb the boards after he shows his strength and agility at the Combine. I want him or Jeria Peters whether the Broncos go 3-4 or not.

That and getting Fields (an experienced NT). Which because he young has chance to rotate with Cody, so we don't depend on rookie to be the key to the defense..

Play2win
12-23-2008, 12:01 PM
It sure would give us a lot more flexibility to secure (highly) successful draft. We could pick up some great value in the mid to late rounds because of it.

It would be like what we do for rb's and Olinemen, except for defense, because (hopefully) we would have a whole system that these tweeners could fit into, be versatile, flexible and successful to the scheme and the different given situations.

elsid13
12-23-2008, 12:26 PM
Well this all for not, according to this http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=82264&draftyear=2010&genpos=DT

12/18/08 - Alabama's All-American junior nose tackle Terrence Cody confirmed tonight that he is not putting his name up to the NFL Draft advisory board and will return to the Crimson Tide for his senior season. "I talked to Coach Saban quite a few times about it," Cody said. "I told him what I really wanted to do. He felt like it was good for me to do that, too. I told him I felt like I needed another year to get full control and get my weight down and then get my knee back to full health." Cody has said all along that he would likely return. But there was a minor panic online last night when Cody's Facebook status changed to say he was going pro. He said tonight that it was merely a joke by his girlfriend and he never anticipated the immediate, overwhelming response it drew from Alabama fans. While Cody said he's certain to return, junior tailback Glen Coffee said he has submitted his name to the advisory board, joining junior left tackle Andre Smith, who said earlier today he has filed his paperwork. - Gentry Estes, Everything Alabama

elsid13
12-23-2008, 01:12 PM
Playing this out BECAUSE I am really really bored and jack ass upstairs is hammering, ****er. Plus with Cody out I need to change the game plan a little.
1. Knowshon Moreno Gives the offense the runner it needs. If needed Denver should move up a couple slots with 3rd from next year

2. Louis Delmas Western Michigan fast riser, that would be nice complement with Barrett. Supposed a the hardest hitter in the draft. If we pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe then go for the BJ Raji since Cody is out

3.Ramses Barden (WR CAL Pol) This guy reminds me so much of Marshall or Vinect Jackson and I think he fits the offense to a "T"

4.(from Doom Trade) Ron Brace BC other DT at 326 has the size to play NT.

4.Worrell William New ILB in the 3/4 with Larson

5.Jeremy Perry (OR) Big OG that has decent movement.

5.Terrance Taylor (MICH) was consider one of better Sr DT coming into the year, but with Cody out need to find a couple of bodies that might be able to play 3/4 NT plus fields(FA)

5.Stryker Sulak (MIZZ) DE that will need to transition to OLB in the pros. Depth and Development

6.Anthony Hill (NC ST) TE - Bigger blocking TE that decent hands, will allow both Mustard and Jackson to move on.

7.David Johnson (FB) Ark State. Need a FB to replace Larson at 250 pounder is potential goal line/short yard blocker when they move Hillis into the power back mode.

7.Carey Harris (CB) USC coming off shoulder surgery, ST player and depth in the secondary can return kicks

Broncos_OTM
12-23-2008, 10:24 PM
i would move dj inside and put moss on the outside i would hope he could do it on the outside

lex
12-23-2008, 10:38 PM
Playing this out BECAUSE I am really really bored and jack ass upstairs is hammering, ****er. Plus with Cody out I need to change the game plan a little.
1. Knowshon Moreno Gives the offense the runner it needs. If needed Denver should move up a couple slots with 3rd from next year

2. Louis Delmas Western Michigan fast riser, that would be nice complement with Barrett. Supposed a the hardest hitter in the draft. If we pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe then go for the BJ Raji since Cody is out

3.Ramses Barden (WR CAL Pol) This guy reminds me so much of Marshall or Vinect Jackson and I think he fits the offense to a "T"

4.(from Doom Trade) Ron Brace BC other DT at 326 has the size to play NT.

4.Worrell William New ILB in the 3/4 with Larson

5.Jeremy Perry (OR) Big OG that has decent movement.

5.Terrance Taylor (MICH) was consider one of better Sr DT coming into the year, but with Cody out need to find a couple of bodies that might be able to play 3/4 NT plus fields(FA)

5.Stryker Sulak (MIZZ) DE that will need to transition to OLB in the pros. Depth and Development

6.Anthony Hill (NC ST) TE - Bigger blocking TE that decent hands, will allow both Mustard and Jackson to move on.

7.David Johnson (FB) Ark State. Need a FB to replace Larson at 250 pounder is potential goal line/short yard blocker when they move Hillis into the power back mode.

7.Carey Harris (CB) USC coming off shoulder surgery, ST player and depth in the secondary can return kicks

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

Theres kind of a dearth of guys well over 300 that are decent. I like Brace and Raji but it would be kind of an undertaking doing this with a rookie at NT.

elsid13
12-24-2008, 06:51 AM
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

Theres kind of a dearth of guys well over 300 that are decent. I like Brace and Raji but it would be kind of an undertaking doing this with a rookie at NT.

That why I figure we need to sign Fields. Between Fields, Brace/Raji, Powell and Shaw/Clemens we should be able to find rotate of NTs that should work.

elsid13
12-24-2008, 06:53 AM
i would move dj inside and put moss on the outside i would hope he could do it on the outside

I rather have DJ playing in space which we know he can do. Moss, I believe is too tall to be effective LB, so I kinda turned him into our pass rusher in the nickle and dime formation, when Denver goes four down linemen.

Traveler
12-24-2008, 07:25 AM
I still don't understand why folks constantly want to get rid of the only player we have-Dumervil-that can rush the passer.

Dumervil problem is that he is being misused. He's not an everydown player. He's situational pass rusher and should be used as such. Same goes for Moss.

Play2win
12-24-2008, 11:37 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2387/2530881747_83ffe530f4.jpg?v=0


3-4 with: Woodyard - Larsen - Rey-Rey - DJ

Definitely would bring the pop-- esp in the MIDDLE...



sure would be fun to watch... ;D

Play2win
12-24-2008, 11:39 AM
Rey-Rey and Larsen could be our new DS49/Atwater... you know, just at a different position... But the hits would be lethal...

Beantown Bronco
12-29-2008, 01:59 PM
Well, that's the trick of the 3-4: Find a dominating NT. Not too easy to do.

Draft BJ Raji. Next. !Booya!

BroncoMan4ever
12-29-2008, 04:15 PM
Will People Quit ****ing Bringing Up A 3-4 Defensive Change!!!!

eddie mac
12-29-2008, 07:30 PM
Anyone who thinks Boss or indeed DJ Williams could play OLB in a real 3-4 defense are very naive.

Neither player has the size or indeed the pass rushing ability required for the position, infact Boss would be totally useless in a 3-4 and DJ would only be adequate at best as the non-thumper ILB. The only 2 players who currently fit the 3-4 OLB role on our roster are Mario Haggan over 260lbs and Jarvis Moss and whilst Haggan has limited pass rushing ability, Moss would need some serious work on his coverage skills.

ward63
12-29-2008, 11:20 PM
Playing this out BECAUSE I am really really bored and jack ass upstairs is hammering, ****er. Plus with Cody out I need to change the game plan a little.
1. Knowshon Moreno Gives the offense the runner it needs. If needed Denver should move up a couple slots with 3rd from next year

2. Louis Delmas Western Michigan fast riser, that would be nice complement with Barrett. Supposed a the hardest hitter in the draft. If we pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe then go for the BJ Raji since Cody is out

3.Ramses Barden (WR CAL Pol) This guy reminds me so much of Marshall or Vinect Jackson and I think he fits the offense to a "T"

4.(from Doom Trade) Ron Brace BC other DT at 326 has the size to play NT.

4.Worrell William New ILB in the 3/4 with Larson

5.Jeremy Perry (OR) Big OG that has decent movement.

5.Terrance Taylor (MICH) was consider one of better Sr DT coming into the year, but with Cody out need to find a couple of bodies that might be able to play 3/4 NT plus fields(FA)

5.Stryker Sulak (MIZZ) DE that will need to transition to OLB in the pros. Depth and Development

6.Anthony Hill (NC ST) TE - Bigger blocking TE that decent hands, will allow both Mustard and Jackson to move on.

7.David Johnson (FB) Ark State. Need a FB to replace Larson at 250 pounder is potential goal line/short yard blocker when they move Hillis into the power back mode.

7.Carey Harris (CB) USC coming off shoulder surgery, ST player and depth in the secondary can return kicks

If you expect to get Terrance Taylor in the 5th, you must be smoking something.

Drek
12-30-2008, 09:00 AM
It seems that we've had a lot more luck with drafting LBs. Maybe this isnt such a bad idea.

I don't see a whole lot better success at LB than DE. Both have a few guys who've shown flashes recently and a bunch of scrubs.

The 4-3 is a better fit for the talent we have right now, so unless we're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over we're a 4-3 team. We need someone like Mike Wafle from the Giants to overhaul our DL.

First step I think we should take in that direction would be drafting red shirt sophomore Gerald McCoy with the 12th overall pick if he comes out.

gyldenlove
12-31-2008, 06:27 PM
I don't think the 3-4 alignment is that much better at generating pass pressure than the 4-3.

I count 8 teams in the league who use primarily the 3-4 front, and a few more who use a mixture of fronts. The 8 pure 3-4 teams finished (1, 2, 7, 8, 14T, 14T, 22 and 30T), of those 8 teams, 5 finished in the bottom 16 in opposing passer rating and 4 finished in the bottom 10 of passing TDs against, including (1, 2, 3T and 8T). You may get a few more sacks, but you tend to allow a bit more through the air so the overall pressure on the QB is the same.

I think switching the 3-4 front is going to be a pain, and I look at teams like the Jets, Browns, 49ers and Cardinals and think it may not be such a good idea. I would rather have the cover-2, we have several weakside linebacker types, we have some decent tacklers among our cornerbacks and some of our defensive linemen should work quite well in a cover-2 scheme. We would need new safeties and a middle linebacker, but we need that anyway.

nickademus
01-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Since Nolan and Capers will be on the staff this looks like a much better possibility. Now how does this happen
Needs:
NT
DE
DE
ILB
OLB
OLB
SS
FS
In FA I feel like this will put a premium on Suggs and Bart Scott from Balt. I am not sure we will get them both but we should be looking at it. I also think that we should look at Chris Canty from Dallas and Marcus Spears if we are going to trade. We also need a vet safety and I think we should do what it takes to get Brian Dawkins out of PHI

Now in the draft I think we will see what it will take to get Curry. But this also makes Rey Rey more a possibility as well. IMHO they are going for the Best ILB for the 3-4 as possible I think in round 2 IMHO we should take a RB I like McCoy but doubt he lasts untill 48. but Green would be a good pick also. round 3 should be a safety Chung, Johnson, or Delmas. If we can figure out a way to get another pick in the first 3 rounds I would love it. round 4-7 I would like Ron Brace Big body for a DT should be able to make the rotation. Andy Levitre Oregon State can play C and G I also like Luigs from ARk. We need a PR/KR somewhere in here as well as some depth on the DL and at CB. anyhow I am excited as we have some pretty good Defencive minds coming in to turn this D around!

PRBronco
01-11-2009, 11:58 PM
Chris Canty is a free agent I think, btw. Also it's worth pointing out we have 2 guys on our practice squad with typical 3-4 DE size, if one of them could stick as depth, that'd be a nice treat.

In the draft, I think Ron Brace in the 2nd would be a nice pick up for the nose position. But we'd definitely need a veteran while he learns the ropes.

ayjackson
01-12-2009, 08:38 AM
Chris Canty plays in a one-gap system in Dallas, not sure how he'd adapt to a two-gap system, but if the price is right, I'd like to see.

Mike Wright has been an excellent sub behind Seymour, Wilfork and Warren in NE and is a free agent. I wouldn't be surprised to see him here in March. Seymour and Wilkfork are due for extensions, so I'm not sure the Pats will be inclined to pay too much for Wright.

I think Karlos Dansby is coming off a tagged year, if he's allowed to walk, he'd be a good SILB.

socalorado
01-12-2009, 08:50 AM
I know we have debated this to death, but I was thinking how hard is it really to move to the 3/4. I read that we don't have the players, it to hard the right personnel etc but I did a little mental simulation and modeling to see if we could do it one year.

Tell me if my logic is ****ed up, since I think we can do it in four outside moves. (* indicates a move). Outside move means that we don't have the resource in house to make the change.


Line:

-Move Thomas, Robinson and Peterson to DE. Denver as already done this season so they all have experience doing it. Robinson can also cycle inside when he needs to

-Sign Ronalds Field (NT #325) from SF. He young player (27) having a good season and has two guys in front of him ~Franklin and Sopoaga *

-Sign Canty from Dallas for depth and rotation.*

-Draft Terrence "Mount" Cody from Alabama. He should be available in area of the draft where Denver sits *

-Keep Clemons or Shaw through TC to see who is most flexible to be a backup NT/DE

-Use Moss and Crowder in nickle/dime packages when Denver goes 4 down linemen in passing downs.

-Trade Dumervil to cover 2 team. I know that sucks but he's young and cheap which make a good trade candidate.

That move Denver from small defense line that holding up the offense line for the LB to make plays to a big defense (300 plus across the board) that holding up the offense line to let the LB make plays

LB:

-Keep both Boss and DJ at outside backers. Both are in the 240 range which while little small but is in range with guys like Porter (250) and Copper SD (235). Plus I think they have the speed to make a difference.

-Move Larson to inside backer. Plays to his strength of moving down field into the gap and and short zone. Plus he is a good blitzer up the middle. Like Trotter who I compare him to.

-Draft LB Worrell Williams (CAL) in the Fourth. Can play inside next to his brother and has good speed. *

-Keep Winborn, Green Niko Koutouvides, for depth and ST. Denver should also attempt to find another inside LB can that play.

- Move Woodyard into nickle LB role with DJ/Boss and bulk him up a little to play inside. Since Denver is in nickle/dime 40% of the time that make sure he see the field (EDIT MISSED ON COPY AND PASTE 1st time around)
LB are slightly on small side (about 245 across the starting 4) but do have more speed then most teams and can make plays.

Jack - Wesley Woodyard
Will - DJ Williams
Mike - Rey Maualuga
Sam - Terrel Suggs

FS- OJ Atogwe
SS-Josh Barrett

So DEN aquires two FA's, and they draft a LB in the 1st round.
DEN would then have to trade away Jarvis Moss and Elvis Dumervil, but they would only help to get more draft picks, which DEN could parlay into a high pick in the, say, 2nd round.
DEN would still need another NT. I know Robertson played NT in NY, but i dont see him dominating. So fine, get the guy from SF, but also draft a NT in the 3rd or 4th as well.
Larsen and Winbourn stay as depth, the rest get jettisoned. They suck man. Niko can stay if he takes a pay cut and plays STs, if not beat it.

bpc
01-12-2009, 09:09 AM
Defense is the word this offseason.

We need to invest our money at LB this offseason. Suggs, Scott and Dansby are all guys we should be lining up the first week of FA.

We need to stock our depth in the front seven with the draft but I'm still on the Taylor Mays bandwagon with our first pick.

1st RD - Taylor Mays - S
2nd RD - Paul Kruger/Tyson Jackson - DE
3rd RD - Glenn Coffee - HB
4th RD - Joe Burnett - CB
5th RD - Terrence Taylor - NT
5th RD - Jasper Brinkley - ILB
6th RD - Rulon Davis - DE/DL
7th RD - Demonte Bolden - DE/DL
7th RD - Daniel Holtzclaw - ILB Eastern Michigan

gyldenlove
01-12-2009, 09:13 AM
Since Nolan and Capers will be on the staff this looks like a much better possibility. Now how does this happen
Needs:
NT
DE
DE
ILB
OLB
OLB
SS
FS
In FA I feel like this will put a premium on Suggs and Bart Scott from Balt. I am not sure we will get them both but we should be looking at it. I also think that we should look at Chris Canty from Dallas and Marcus Spears if we are going to trade. We also need a vet safety and I think we should do what it takes to get Brian Dawkins out of PHI

Now in the draft I think we will see what it will take to get Curry. But this also makes Rey Rey more a possibility as well. IMHO they are going for the Best ILB for the 3-4 as possible I think in round 2 IMHO we should take a RB I like McCoy but doubt he lasts untill 48. but Green would be a good pick also. round 3 should be a safety Chung, Johnson, or Delmas. If we can figure out a way to get another pick in the first 3 rounds I would love it. round 4-7 I would like Ron Brace Big body for a DT should be able to make the rotation. Andy Levitre Oregon State can play C and G I also like Luigs from ARk. We need a PR/KR somewhere in here as well as some depth on the DL and at CB. anyhow I am excited as we have some pretty good Defencive minds coming in to turn this D around!


You could have saved yourself some time and just written a new defense.

Elway777
01-12-2009, 09:17 AM
If the Broncos do switch to 3-4 then I would use 12 pick on one of 4 players
1. Everette Brown 2. Rey Rey 3, Gerald McCOY if he comes out 4 B.J Raji.
This would be my 3-4 draft 1. Everrtte Brown 2. Tyson Jackson 3 . Donald Brown 4 Jasper Brinkley 5a Mark Parson 5b David Burtain 6a Sammie Lee Hills 6b Berand SCott 7. Tyler Roehl. I would target Fields nose tackle from 49ers and Wright De from New England. I would also look at a real good safety hopefully Atogwe. Starting lineup would be Wright ,Fields ,Jackson Brown,Williams. Brinkley, Dumervil, Baliley, Bly, Atogwe, Burtain

nickademus
01-12-2009, 11:51 AM
You could have saved yourself some time and just written a new defense.

yes but then I would have never learned anything from the pain that was evaluating Denvers D.

chaz
01-12-2009, 12:32 PM
Playing this out BECAUSE I am really really bored and jack ass upstairs is hammering, ****er. Plus with Cody out I need to change the game plan a little.
1. Knowshon Moreno Gives the offense the runner it needs. If needed Denver should move up a couple slots with 3rd from next year

2. Louis Delmas Western Michigan fast riser, that would be nice complement with Barrett. Supposed a the hardest hitter in the draft. If we pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe then go for the BJ Raji since Cody is out

3.Ramses Barden (WR CAL Pol) This guy reminds me so much of Marshall or Vinect Jackson and I think he fits the offense to a "T"

4.(from Doom Trade) Ron Brace BC other DT at 326 has the size to play NT.

4.Worrell William New ILB in the 3/4 with Larson

5.Jeremy Perry (OR) Big OG that has decent movement.

5.Terrance Taylor (MICH) was consider one of better Sr DT coming into the year, but with Cody out need to find a couple of bodies that might be able to play 3/4 NT plus fields(FA)

5.Stryker Sulak (MIZZ) DE that will need to transition to OLB in the pros. Depth and Development

6.Anthony Hill (NC ST) TE - Bigger blocking TE that decent hands, will allow both Mustard and Jackson to move on.

7.David Johnson (FB) Ark State. Need a FB to replace Larson at 250 pounder is potential goal line/short yard blocker when they move Hillis into the power back mode.

7.Carey Harris (CB) USC coming off shoulder surgery, ST player and depth in the secondary can return kicks

I really like Moreno but 12 is toooo early IMO...things could change but I don't see it. Otherwise I like rds 2-4, don't know anything about the rest.

elsid13
01-12-2009, 03:13 PM
The name I want to throw out is OLD Larry English from NIU @ the 12 spot. Depend on how he test out at the combine.

PRBronco
01-12-2009, 03:44 PM
Defense is the word this offseason.

We need to invest our money at LB this offseason. Suggs, Scott and Dansby are all guys we should be lining up the first week of FA.

We need to stock our depth in the front seven with the draft but I'm still on the Taylor Mays bandwagon with our first pick.

1st RD - Taylor Mays - S
2nd RD - Paul Kruger/Tyson Jackson - DE
3rd RD - Glenn Coffee - HB
4th RD - Joe Burnett - CB
5th RD - Terrence Taylor - NT
5th RD - Jasper Brinkley - ILB
6th RD - Rulon Davis - DE/DL
7th RD - Demonte Bolden - DE/DL
7th RD - Daniel Holtzclaw - ILB Eastern Michigan

I like the Brinkley pick, he's a big boy, nice for the 3-4. I doubt TJack would last that long, Mayock has him as his top senior DE. I've been wondering about Terrence Taylor, I think arm length will be the make or break thing for him. Won't cut it at nose tackle at that size without freakish arms.

mattob14
01-12-2009, 05:56 PM
In a 3-4, a lot of the guys that were talked about as targets earlier (Spikes, JL, McCoy, Jerry) fall off the board. There is a ton of value later on though. I'd think this makes a trade down more likely. Guys like Tyson Jackson, Clint Sintim, and Rey Maualuga are great 3-4 fits who could be available in the mid-20's. I'd also like to look at a few of the mid-rounders that have been mentioned here, like Brinkley and Brace. Clay Matthews would be a nice OLB pick-up too. Overall, I think guys who are natural 3-4 fits (other than pass-rushing OLBs) tend to be valued slightly lower than guys who are 4-3 prototypes. That could play to our advantage on draft day, where we're likely to have a number of needs.

Dedhed
01-12-2009, 07:19 PM
Since Nolan and Capers will be on the staff this looks like a much better possibility. Now how does this happen
Needs:
NT
DE
DE
ILB
OLB
OLB
SS
FS
In FA I feel like this will put a premium on Suggs and Bart Scott from Balt. I am not sure we will get them both but we should be looking at it. I also think that we should look at Chris Canty from Dallas and Marcus Spears if we are going to trade. We also need a vet safety and I think we should do what it takes to get Brian Dawkins out of PHI

Now in the draft I think we will see what it will take to get Curry. But this also makes Rey Rey more a possibility as well. IMHO they are going for the Best ILB for the 3-4 as possible I think in round 2 IMHO we should take a RB I like McCoy but doubt he lasts untill 48. but Green would be a good pick also. round 3 should be a safety Chung, Johnson, or Delmas. If we can figure out a way to get another pick in the first 3 rounds I would love it. round 4-7 I would like Ron Brace Big body for a DT should be able to make the rotation. Andy Levitre Oregon State can play C and G I also like Luigs from ARk. We need a PR/KR somewhere in here as well as some depth on the DL and at CB. anyhow I am excited as we have some pretty good Defencive minds coming in to turn this D around!Which among those needs is different if we stick with a 4-3?
Not many.

27atwater
01-12-2009, 07:55 PM
Sign Chris Canty
Move Wes Woodyard to Safety to team w/ Barrett
Trade back to acquire an additional #2 (using a #5 if needed):

1-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
2a-LeSean McCoy/Shonn Greene/James Davis, RB
2b-Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
3-Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati
4-Worrell Williams, ILB, Cal
5a-Clinton McDonald, DE, Memphis
5b-Quan Cosby, WR, Texas
6-AQ Shipley, C, Penn State
7-Sammi Lee Hill, DT, Stillman

TheChamp24
01-12-2009, 09:28 PM
I definitely think we need to trade Dumveril. People who don't see it, watch how he was practically useless this past season and in a 3-4 defense, will be even more useless. Send him and hopefully get a 3rd round pick for him, probably a 4th/5th.

MagicHef
01-13-2009, 08:16 AM
The name I want to throw out is OLD Larry English from NIU @ the 12 spot. Depend on how he test out at the combine.

He's turning 23 later this month. He's not that old.

nickademus
01-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Which among those needs is different if we stick with a 4-3?
Not many.

The needs are not really all that different but the personel we choose for thoes needs are night and day. I am not the biggest fan of the 3-4 but if we are really going to settle on one scheme and one style of D then that would be a huge upgrade to the mix and match bullcrap we have seen for the last four years.

27atwater
01-13-2009, 08:27 PM
I definitely think we need to trade Dumveril. People who don't see it, watch how he was practically useless this past season and in a 3-4 defense, will be even more useless. Send him and hopefully get a 3rd round pick for him, probably a 4th/5th.

I like the idea of seeing what he can do in a 3-4. He can clearly get to the QB and w/ a HUGE DE in front of him, he could run free at the QB. He'd obviously have to get used to tackling in space, but he seems like he would do OK in the long run.

gyldenlove
01-14-2009, 10:02 AM
Well, it seems like the 3-4 crowd was right, we are going to make the switch.

I still maintain that we will be more Cleveland, Jets, 49ers or Cardinals than Patriots, Cowboys, Steelers or Chargers. Unfortunately there are only 4 good NTs in the world (Hampton, Wilfork, Williams and Jenkins). None of those will leave their current team, so we are down to drafting a NT, which is hard.

McDaniels says he wants to play a hybrid like what the Ravens are doing, but he wants to establish the 3-4 first.

Looking at who are keepers:

DJ Williams, he is too expensive to cut or trade and I think he could play a Mike Vrabel type OLB.
Champ Bailey, he is too good to get rid off and fits any system.
Jarvis Moss, he will get a shot at playing OLB or hybrid player like Suggs.
Marcus Thomas, he will get a shot at playing DE and may stick there, but I am doubtful, my feeling is that he will be turned into a draft pick down the road.
Carlton Powell, he is the only lineman we have I think can play the 2-gap system the Patriots play.
Spencer Larsen, he could if nothing else fit as a backup ILB and he is a key player on ST.

In the draft we are going to need a NG, I like Raji in the 1st round, it may be a reach but it is so hard to find a good NG and he is the best of the bunch. We also need S, I think we will try to add someone either via trading Dumervil or via FA, but we do need a lot of players there and I think we will draft a S between round 2 and 4 as well as a LB, could be Rey as ILB in round 1, could be Clay Matthews, Cushing, Sintim or any of a number of quality linebackers available in the middle rounds.

I think we will add DL in FA, we need some 2-gapper so they have to be big and powerful, but not necessarily incredibly quick. Unfortunately not a whole lot of those guys are available, however a few people will be cut who may fit the system. There are some big names, Peppers and Haynesworth who might both be slightly wasted in the 3-4, lesser names being mentioned are Shaun Cody and Tank Johnson (if he is done shooting people) and Canty, I believe there is a chance that Shaun Ellis of the Jets will get axed for salary cap reasons, Jovan Haye of Tampa may be on the radar as well.

azbroncfan
01-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Denver use to be a very good 3-4 Defensive team back in the day and would get blown out in the Super bowls..

That's because they ran into arguably the best team ever in 89, and in 86 they were a dead duck too and had no chance. They had a chance against washington but Ted Lilly was the S and Den s$%t down their own leg.

azbroncfan
01-17-2009, 11:02 PM
Well, it seems like the 3-4 crowd was right, we are going to make the switch.

I still maintain that we will be more Cleveland, Jets, 49ers or Cardinals than Patriots, Cowboys, Steelers or Chargers. Unfortunately there are only 4 good NTs in the world (Hampton, Wilfork, Williams and Jenkins). None of those will leave their current team, so we are down to drafting a NT, which is hard..

Actually Haynesworth would be better than all of them and he can play in any system. He is as physical as any DT that has been in the league for awhile. Now do I think Denver will land him? Probably not.

nickademus
01-18-2009, 11:18 AM
I really think that Rey Rey should be the pick at 12 (saying this is like acid in my mouth) and then there should be a trade to move back up into the first to get Raji but I am not sure that there are not some decent backups from the ravens/pats/49ers ect.. that would be able to at least step in and know the system untill a rookie DT matures and becomes the every down NT we need.

p7superfly
01-18-2009, 11:58 PM
So who do we desperately pine and pray over them falling to us? Last year it was Clady ... no joke. Picking higher is easier.

Peppers wants to go to a 3-4 system. We should have some cap space, especially if we cut the dead weight ... Enough to go get Haynesworth/ Peppers/ Suggs?

I hear the guy who was destined to be our safety for 13+ years just screwed everything up - and went back to Cali for School.

Who are some safety prospects?

Maybe we go nuts, and sign a lot of new toys ... Julius Peppers? Terrell Suggs? We could trade Dumervil if we wanted to, or throw him in the rotation as a roving wildcard...

I feel a lot better with Nolan AND Capers being on staff. How much cap room do we have?

Basically, figuring out what should we draft, vs. what we should buy on the market.

ayjackson
01-19-2009, 06:23 PM
I feel a lot better with Nolan AND Capers being on staff. How much cap room do we have?



Didn't Capers sign on as DC in Green Bay? (Another team to the 3-4, btw.)

elsid13
01-19-2009, 06:25 PM
Didn't Capers sign on as DC in Green Bay? (Another team to the 3-4, btw.)

Yes Capers just went to GB and they are going to transition to 3-4 two. I'm wondering if doesn't make sense to stick with 4-3 and wait for some of the DLine to be cut from some of the teams.