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lex
12-21-2008, 10:42 PM
Not that Im under any delusions that input from an internet message boards matters when it comes to getting in the way of Shanahan's cronyism, however obvious it may be.

I submit

Mark Banker, who is the DC for Oregon State.

Bill Shuey, LB coach, Phil Eagles

Bill Sheridan, LB coach, NY Giants

Mike Waufle, DL coach, NY Giants

OBF1
12-21-2008, 10:50 PM
Charlie Strong, Florida Gators Defensive Coordinator, Associate Head Coach/Linebackers

24champ
12-21-2008, 10:50 PM
Nolan and fire everyone on the current staff so he can bring in his own people to install the 3-4.

lex
12-21-2008, 10:54 PM
Charlie Strong, Florida Gators Defensive Coordinator, Associate Head Coach/Linebackers


Thats a good call. I was going to mention him until I considered that he may get a head coaching position fairly soon.

summerdenver
12-21-2008, 11:15 PM
New DC would be useless unless he is given freedom to run his scheme without Mike imposing his 8 men in the box idiocy in the middle of the year. If he is given the freedom, Wade would be my call.

extralife
12-22-2008, 01:09 AM
Don't want a name guy. I want someone hungry to prove himself. Someone that might not be afraid to improve, and might be able to ask that of his players as well.

bpc
12-22-2008, 01:19 AM
I like this thread and I like the names. I don't mind running a 4-3, you just have to attack from it, 92' Dallas Cowboys style. Bring the heat on the offense.

I'm open to anything. I don't mind hiring unproven but we really need to have a DC and system in place for the next 2 year span. Its going to be huge for this defense.

Anybody want Greg Robinson? ha ha.

I would love Wade Phillips. I don't think he'll ever come back though. Too many hard feelings.

Killericon
12-22-2008, 02:04 AM
Rod Marrinelli.

elsid13
12-22-2008, 02:57 AM
New DC would be useless unless he is given freedom to run his scheme without Mike imposing his 8 men in the box idiocy in the middle of the year. If he is given the freedom, Wade would be my call.

Shanahan gives plenty of freedom to his DC to call the plays. The only time Shanahan has got involved in defense play calling was with Rhodes, which need to be done becuase Rhodes defense was a disaster.

Elway777
12-22-2008, 03:01 AM
Mike Waufle or Bill Shuey could be good ideas. Waufle coached the defence line that defended New England in superbowl plus the Giants are favored to win Superbowl again. I always like the Eagles defence and their blitz schemes and Shuey has trained under one of the best defensive minds in Johnson. I also like defensive line coach from the Titans. I think his name is Williams. I also wouldn't mind stealing Ron Riveria from the chargers by offering a big contract.

fontaine
12-22-2008, 03:11 AM
We need a DC that can hit the ground running, would have scouted/studied our defense this season, knows how to spot talent in the draft and has the experience.

So no thanks to college coaches, we don't have the time to let some guy learn on the job.

bro1ncos
12-22-2008, 04:33 AM
We need a DC that people are going to give a chance too. Not someone when they give up 30 pts in week 1 where there are threads here saying " Fire _________"

DarkHorse
12-22-2008, 04:47 AM
At some point you have to step back and wonder who is actually running the defense.


How many DC's are we going to go thru? It's not like we're hiring from the bottom of the barrel is it?


About time for Shanny to step back and loosen his grip, this defense is the worst i've seen in a long time - playing WEIRD formations because they suck so bad.

oubronco
12-22-2008, 06:06 AM
anyone who knows how to make in game adjustments who has a good staff especially a D-line coach who has a clue

Bronco X
12-22-2008, 06:06 AM
I'm tempted to say enough of the DC carousel... it would be the 4th straight year with a new DC if Slowik is replaced. That being said, I can't say I want Slowik back. I do, however, want players a DC can work with. Without that, the DC carousel will keep spinning endlessly and aimlessly.

oubronco
12-22-2008, 06:07 AM
At some point you have to step back and wonder who is actually running the defense.


How many DC's are we going to go thru? It's not like we're hiring from the bottom of the barrel is it?

About time for Shanny to step back and loosen his grip, this defense is the worst i've seen in a long time - playing WEIRD formations because they suck so bad.

It seems like it

oubronco
12-22-2008, 06:19 AM
someone with this attitude

jmz313
12-22-2008, 07:02 AM
2nd for MIke Nolan and the 3-4.

Its not like Blowing up the front 7 will matter. Those players aren't even very good in the 4-3. Problem is that Nolan wouldn't work for shanny, and Shanny would hire Nolan who actually might tell him to F off.

socalorado
12-22-2008, 07:18 AM
1st, it wont matter who is the DC, if he just gets fired after one year.
Bowlen needs to take back complete control of football operations and just have Shanny the HC.
Then allow a new young guy to come in and install his system and be allowed to get the players needed to win a SB, both in the draft, and in FA as well.
Raheen Morris would be my 1st choice.
Of course he will be the head DC after this year in TB, so hes out.
Anyone of these would be an upgrade.
Bill Shuey, LB coach, Phil Eagles
Bill Sheridan, LB coach, NY Giants
Mike Waufle, DL coach, NY Giants
Jim Schwartz TENN DC
Gene Chizik-Texas
Bud Foster-Virginia Tech
Bo Pelini-LSU
Randy Shannon-Miami
John Tenuda- GT
Tyrone Nix-South Carolina
Vic Koenning-Clemson
Dick Bumpus-TCU
Will Muschamp-Auburn
Tim Rose-Toledo

socalorado
12-22-2008, 07:21 AM
2nd for MIke Nolan and the 3-4.

Its not like Blowing up the front 7 will matter. Those players aren't even very good in the 4-3. Problem is that Nolan wouldn't work for shanny, and Shanny would hire Nolan who actually might tell him to F off.

Intitially i thought Nolan would be a good choice, but after thinking about it, do you really think Nolan would put up with all of shannys BS?
He would tell him to F-off by week 3. Bowlen would have to take back control and allow Nolan the freedom to be successful.

Requiem
12-22-2008, 07:25 AM
Great thread Lex. Those guys sound good.

Broncobuddy7
12-22-2008, 07:25 AM
Not sure if it's a good choice but Wade Phillips will probably be available.

MVP-06
12-22-2008, 07:27 AM
Marinelli/Marvin lewis when they get fired

Kaylore
12-22-2008, 07:31 AM
We need a DC that people are going to give a chance too. Not someone when they give up 30 pts in week 1 where there are threads here saying " Fire _________"

Slowik has never been good. Ever. Criticisms of his are justified. His defense looks like it has everywhere he's been. If this was a proven defensive coach in his first year, then I think people would be more willing to make some allowances, but Slowik has made this defense his own and it looks exactly like we all knew it would.

I don't trust anyone on the staff to evaluate and develop defensive talent. I fully expect the next draft with Slowik for us to take a bunch of dumb athletes that can't play football. Until we undo all that crap on that side of the ball and get Slowik out of here our defense will be among the worst in the league.

lex
12-22-2008, 07:43 AM
1st, it wont matter who is the DC, if he just gets fired after one year.
Bowlen needs to take back complete control of football operations and just have Shanny the HC.
Then allow a new young guy to come in and install his system and be allowed to get the players needed to win a SB, both in the draft, and in FA as well.
Raheen Morris would be my 1st choice.
Of course he will be the head DC after this year in TB, so hes out.
Anyone of these would be an upgrade.
Bill Shuey, LB coach, Phil Eagles
Bill Sheridan, LB coach, NY Giants
Mike Waufle, DL coach, NY Giants
Jim Schwartz TENN DC
Gene Chizik-Texas --- Now is the HC at Auburn
Bud Foster-Virginia Tech
Bo Pelini-LSU-- Now is the HC at Nebraska
Randy Shannon-Miami
John Tenuda- GT
Tyrone Nix-South Carolina
Vic Koenning-Clemson
Dick Bumpus-TCU
Will Muschamp-Auburn-- Now is the DC at Texas
Tim Rose-Toledo

Some corrections

Marshall Dumervil
12-22-2008, 07:48 AM
What about Romeo Crennel? I'm not sure but doesn't he have a defensive background? I'm thinking he was a good DC before head coach. ???

As far as a 3-4 nobody on our team is big enough to play nose guard effectivly

Gotta have a monster like Shawn Rogers. :thumbsup:

Rohirrim
12-22-2008, 07:50 AM
Pete Carroll.

Traveler
12-22-2008, 07:54 AM
DJ, Woodyard, Champ, Boss,Robertson,Thomas, Dumervil, Larsen, Barrett, Moss, Crowder, and possibly Winborn should be the only remaining players on defense.

The scrap heap for all the rest, including the entire defensive staff.

HAT
12-22-2008, 08:00 AM
DeWayne Walker

Play2win
12-22-2008, 08:00 AM
Pete Carroll.

Ha-ha... Thats a good one! Hilarious! :rofl:

Rohirrim
12-22-2008, 08:12 AM
Ha-ha... Thats a good one! Hilarious! :rofl:

I'll bet Alabama and Florida are very happy they're not facing that D.

socalorado
12-22-2008, 08:12 AM
Some corrections

Sorry pulled it from an old list off another thread.

lazarus4444
12-22-2008, 08:14 AM
Shanahan gives plenty of freedom to his DC to call the plays. The only time Shanahan has got involved in defense play calling was with Rhodes, which need to be done becuase Rhodes defense was a disaster.

Rhodes Defense was less of a disaster than the current one.

Dudeskey
12-22-2008, 08:15 AM
What about Romeo Crennel? I'm not sure but doesn't he have a defensive background? I'm thinking he was a good DC before head coach. ???

As far as a 3-4 nobody on our team is big enough to play nose guard effectivly

Gotta have a monster like Shawn Rogers. :thumbsup:

In that case a serious run @ Haynesworth would have to be made fot NT. Romeo C. was a very good DC during his time w/ the Pats, but I'm not sure how many players we have to ditch & replace to convert to a 3-4. But in terms of generally keeping a 4-3 together, I wouldn't mind them looking @ Marvin Lewis or Marinelli either. Problem w/ Marinelli is that we have some of his ex-players here that didn't fit in his scheme. In either case, the next DC should be able to have some kind of say on what personnel he wants...

elsid13
12-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Rhodes Defense was less of a disaster than the current one.

Actually I put this one above the Rhodes one. The rush Ian Gold into the offense line and drop the 10 guy into coverage was one of the worse idea ever.

cutthemdown
12-22-2008, 10:15 AM
what a joke!!!! We fire the D coord every yr and defense get's worst. This team needs better players not better coaches.

Peoples Champ
12-22-2008, 10:25 AM
Can Ed Reed be a DC?

footstepsfrom#27
12-22-2008, 10:29 AM
Don't want a name guy. I want someone hungry to prove himself. Someone that might not be afraid to improve, and might be able to ask that of his players as well.
You want this guy: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=30932

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/75434452.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19309EBFDFE8F65174D44298BAD3240A63A 284831B75F48EF45

I keep pimpin' him but nobody's listening. His background, experience and pedigree are perfect for us.

Joel Collier returned to New England when he joined Bill Belichick's staff on February 23, 2005. Collier had previously spent three seasons (1991-93) in the Patriots' coaching and scouting departments before serving an 11-year tenure as an assistant coach with the Miami Dolphins (1994-04).

In 2006, Collier's secondary contributed to a defense that set the franchise record in points allowed per game (14.81) and the defensive backfield was key in surrendering the fewest touchdown passes in the league (10). Patriots' opposing quarterbacks had the second lowest cumulative passer rating (66.1) in the league and lowest inside the 30-yard line (50.8). Collier's work with cornerback Asante Samuel helped him tie for the league lead in interceptions with 10 in 2006.

In 2005, Collier helped the secondary improve down the stretch after losing six players to season-ending injuries. In New England's last seven regular-season and playoff games, opponents averaged just 188 passing yards per game while throwing for a total of only five touchdowns. In those final seven contests, opposing teams were held to fewer than 200 total passing yards five times. The synergy that the group achieved was remarkable considering that 13 different starters were utilized during the season, including six starters at strong safety over an eight-week midseason span. Collier's tutelage helped cornerbacks Asante Samuel and Ellis Hobbs tie for the team lead with three interceptions apiece while combining to produce a total of 30 passes defensed.

Collier rejoined the Patriots in 2005 after completing a seven-year assignment as Miami's running backs coach, during which time he helped produce three 1,000-yard seasons and coached three different players who finished among the NFL's top five rookie rushers in their respective rookie seasons. Under Collier's tutelage, running back Ricky Williams recorded the top two rushing seasons in Dolphins history, notching an NFL-leading franchise-record 1,853 yards in 2002 and following that with a 1,372-yard effort in 2003. Williams earned a Pro Bowl nod in 2002, becoming the first Dolphins running back since Delvin Williams in 1978 to earn such recognition. Collier was also credited with assisting the development of former Miami fullback Rob Konrad, who became known as one of the league's top blocking fullbacks.

His experience on the defensive side of the ball includes a four-year stint as Miami's defensive staff assistant beginning in 1994. In that role, Collier helped to coach the Dolphins linebackers in addition to assisting with the overall football operation. In 1997, he was credited with assisting in the development of linebacker Derrick Rodgers, who earned Sports Illustrated's Defensive Rookie of the Year honors.
Prior to joining the Dolphins, Collier spent three seasons in Foxborough as the Patriots' assistant running backs and receivers coach (1991-92) and as a pro scout (1993). He was hired as a member of Head Coach Dick MacPherson's staff in 1991, and his assignments included assisting wide receivers coach (and current Patriots running backs coach) Ivan Fears.

Collier began his coaching career in 1988 as a graduate assistant under MacPherson at Syracuse University before entering the NFL as an offensive assistant for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1990.



Playing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Collier was a three-year starter at inside linebacker for Northern Colorado University. He was an academic All-North Central Conference selection.

Personal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Collier was born on Dec. 25, 1963 in Buffalo, N.Y. He is the son of Joe Collier, who was on the Patriots' original coaching staff from 1960-61 and served as New England's defensive coordinator under Dick MacPherson from 1991- 92. Joe Collier was also head coach of the Buffalo Bills and a longtime defensive coordinator for the Denver Broncos, where Joel served as a ballboy while growing up. Joel and his wife, Shirley Ann, have a son, Jeremy Grayson, and a daughter, Evelyn.

footstepsfrom#27
12-22-2008, 10:30 AM
what a joke!!!! We fire the D coord every yr and defense get's worst. This team needs better players not better coaches.
They need both.

Rohirrim
12-22-2008, 10:32 AM
It all starts with the line. Not the secondary.

PRBronco
12-22-2008, 10:43 AM
DJ, Woodyard, Champ, Boss,Robertson,Thomas, Dumervil, Larsen, Barrett, Moss, Crowder, and possibly Winborn should be the only remaining players on defense.

The scrap heap for all the rest, including the entire defensive staff.

Yup, and the common theme here is that these are 4-3 guys, I'd like to find someone who will stick with that. Marinelli is my top choice, but I like the marvin lewis suggestions.

I almost wish Webster was under contract, just to see how fast a new DC would **** can him.

oubronco
12-22-2008, 10:57 AM
You want this guy: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=30932

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/75434452.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19309EBFDFE8F65174D44298BAD3240A63A 284831B75F48EF45

I keep pimpin' him but nobody's listening. His background, experience and pedigree are perfect for us.

Joel Collier returned to New England when he joined Bill Belichick's staff on February 23, 2005. Collier had previously spent three seasons (1991-93) in the Patriots' coaching and scouting departments before serving an 11-year tenure as an assistant coach with the Miami Dolphins (1994-04).

In 2006, Collier's secondary contributed to a defense that set the franchise record in points allowed per game (14.81) and the defensive backfield was key in surrendering the fewest touchdown passes in the league (10). Patriots' opposing quarterbacks had the second lowest cumulative passer rating (66.1) in the league and lowest inside the 30-yard line (50.8). Collier's work with cornerback Asante Samuel helped him tie for the league lead in interceptions with 10 in 2006.

In 2005, Collier helped the secondary improve down the stretch after losing six players to season-ending injuries. In New England's last seven regular-season and playoff games, opponents averaged just 188 passing yards per game while throwing for a total of only five touchdowns. In those final seven contests, opposing teams were held to fewer than 200 total passing yards five times. The synergy that the group achieved was remarkable considering that 13 different starters were utilized during the season, including six starters at strong safety over an eight-week midseason span. Collier's tutelage helped cornerbacks Asante Samuel and Ellis Hobbs tie for the team lead with three interceptions apiece while combining to produce a total of 30 passes defensed.

Collier rejoined the Patriots in 2005 after completing a seven-year assignment as Miami's running backs coach, during which time he helped produce three 1,000-yard seasons and coached three different players who finished among the NFL's top five rookie rushers in their respective rookie seasons. Under Collier's tutelage, running back Ricky Williams recorded the top two rushing seasons in Dolphins history, notching an NFL-leading franchise-record 1,853 yards in 2002 and following that with a 1,372-yard effort in 2003. Williams earned a Pro Bowl nod in 2002, becoming the first Dolphins running back since Delvin Williams in 1978 to earn such recognition. Collier was also credited with assisting the development of former Miami fullback Rob Konrad, who became known as one of the league's top blocking fullbacks.

His experience on the defensive side of the ball includes a four-year stint as Miami's defensive staff assistant beginning in 1994. In that role, Collier helped to coach the Dolphins linebackers in addition to assisting with the overall football operation. In 1997, he was credited with assisting in the development of linebacker Derrick Rodgers, who earned Sports Illustrated's Defensive Rookie of the Year honors.
Prior to joining the Dolphins, Collier spent three seasons in Foxborough as the Patriots' assistant running backs and receivers coach (1991-92) and as a pro scout (1993). He was hired as a member of Head Coach Dick MacPherson's staff in 1991, and his assignments included assisting wide receivers coach (and current Patriots running backs coach) Ivan Fears.

Collier began his coaching career in 1988 as a graduate assistant under MacPherson at Syracuse University before entering the NFL as an offensive assistant for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1990.



Playing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Collier was a three-year starter at inside linebacker for Northern Colorado University. He was an academic All-North Central Conference selection.

Personal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Collier was born on Dec. 25, 1963 in Buffalo, N.Y. He is the son of Joe Collier, who was on the Patriots' original coaching staff from 1960-61 and served as New England's defensive coordinator under Dick MacPherson from 1991- 92. Joe Collier was also head coach of the Buffalo Bills and a longtime defensive coordinator for the Denver Broncos, where Joel served as a ballboy while growing up. Joel and his wife, Shirley Ann, have a son, Jeremy Grayson, and a daughter, Evelyn.

I'd go for it except I doubt New England would let him walk and what would Denver have to offer to get him?

Popps
12-22-2008, 11:38 AM
The other weird thing is that even when we have gotten coveted DCs to come into Denver (Rhodes/Bates).... we've ruined them. Rhodes was very effective as a coordinator before Denver and most thought Bates was on his way to a head coaching job. Now, they're on milk cartons.

Play2win
12-22-2008, 11:41 AM
The other weird thing is that even when we have gotten coveted DCs to come into Denver (Rhodes/Bates).... we've ruined them. Rhodes was very effective as a coordinator before Denver and most thought Bates was on his way to a head coaching job. Now, they're on milk cartons.

Hilarious! :rofl:

Fusionfrontman
12-22-2008, 11:42 AM
The only guy I'd add to the list of players to keep around would be Bly. Yeah he is frustrating at times, but who is our second corner then..or even worse, our first corner if Champ goes down. Paymah? JMFW?!

WolfpackGuy
12-22-2008, 11:43 AM
It doesn't matter who they get if they don't fix the defensive line.

Inkana7
12-22-2008, 11:46 AM
If we do make a change, we have to let him ****can everyone and bring in their own people. That's what happened in Miami and Atlanta and look at them.

rastaman
12-22-2008, 11:49 AM
Not that Im under any delusions that input from an internet message boards matters when it comes to getting in the way of Shanahan's cronyism, however obvious it may be.

I submit

Mark Banker, who is the DC for Oregon State.

Bill Shuey, LB coach, Phil Eagles

Bill Sheridan, LB coach, NY Giants

Mike Waufle, DL coach, NY Giants

Those guys would be great choices.....but a threat to Shanahan's ego!! Won't happen!!

Say hello to Shanahan Cronyism and DC Slowick in 2009. During the 96, 97, and 98 seasons, Shanahan did not have lights out Defense! Thats just not his style.

2KBack
12-22-2008, 11:57 AM
Those guys would be great choices.....but a threat to Shanahan's ego!! Won't happen!!

Say hello to Shanahan Cronyism and DC Slowick in 2009. During the 96, 97, and 98 seasons, Shanahan did not have lights out Defense! Thats just not his style.

Actually, Denver was top 10 in points allowed all three of those seasons. 7th, 6th, and 8th respectively. It's a myth that Denver didn't have a very good defense those years.

Kaylore
12-22-2008, 12:03 PM
The other weird thing is that even when we have gotten coveted DCs to come into Denver (Rhodes/Bates).... we've ruined them. Rhodes was very effective as a coordinator before Denver and most thought Bates was on his way to a head coaching job. Now, they're on milk cartons.

Rhodes is really the only instance of that and he's looked blah in Seattle. Bates was out of football and had been turned down from two jobs and recently fired from the Packers, so I hardly think he was "ruined" by us.

rastaman
12-22-2008, 12:24 PM
Actually, Denver was top 10 in points allowed all three of those seasons. 7th, 6th, and 8th respectively. It's a myth that Denver didn't have a very good defense those years.

Good points. Those teams were coached by Robinson......and he didn't last very long after the the 98 season. I don't know when Shanahan fired him, but in any regard Shanahan has not kept a DC for longer than 2 or 3 years since then, thus negating any type/chance of the Broncos building an identity nor consistency on the defensive side of the ball.

I've often wondered what type of Defensive identity Denver whould have today had the Broncos organization made a committment to keep their DC for 5 year period and build thru the draft and FA to find players to fit their defensive scheme.

ghwk
12-22-2008, 12:28 PM
I say lets give Kupesdad a shot at it.

TonyR
12-22-2008, 12:56 PM
That's what happened in Miami and Atlanta and look at them.

Yes, it's interesting how the Shanahan apologists conveniently ignore Miami and Atlanta. All you hear from them is the "who's out there that's better" scared of change talk. Both these teams brought in relative unknowns and started over and made stunning turnarounds in ONE YEAR. And yet all the Shanny nuthuggers don't think waiting 10 years for a turnaround is enough!

Beantown Bronco
12-22-2008, 01:03 PM
Yes, it's interesting how the Shanahan apologists conveniently ignore Miami and Atlanta. All you hear from them is the "who's out there that's better" scared of change talk. Both these teams brought in relative unknowns and started over and made stunning turnarounds in ONE YEAR. And yet all the Shanny nuthuggers don't think waiting 10 years for a turnaround is enough!

That argument COMPLETELY ignores the fact that both those teams brought in an abundance of new talent across the board. How much influence the new players had vs. the new coaches is the perfect example of the "chicken/egg" debate. Do you really think Atlanta would be where they are without their shiny new QB/RB combo? Same for Miami. Joey Porter, a healthy Ronnie Brown and Chad Pennington have completely turned their units around.

TonyR
12-22-2008, 01:16 PM
That argument COMPLETELY ignores the fact that both those teams brought in an abundance of new talent across the board.

Well, not really. The new leadership brought in the new players and coaches and obviously they made the right decisions. What you need to focus on is the speed and the success. I keep hearing how wonderful Shanahan is successfully rebuilding this team. Well, understanding that they had higher draft picks to help them along the way, Atlanta and Miami did it better AND faster!

WolfpackGuy
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
No pass rush
No turnovers being forced
+ No tackling
No chance

Taco John
12-22-2008, 01:25 PM
I've got an idea for a new DC: Talk Shanahan into signing a stud DE in free agency, and then draft a couple of DTs.

oubronco
12-22-2008, 01:26 PM
take all the names you can find

tape them to the wall

throw a dart

and the winner will still be better than

SLOWD*CK!!!

Beantown Bronco
12-22-2008, 01:26 PM
I keep hearing how wonderful Shanahan is successfully rebuilding this team. Well, understanding that they had higher draft picks to help them along the way, Atlanta and Miami did it better AND faster!

For almost 15 years now, Shanny has kept this team from doing what these two teams did last year. His idea of rebuilding is hovering around .500 for a year or two. Not having to rebuild from a one or two win season has to count for something.

And let's not crown them until they make it to the playoffs and actually do something there. It's a lot easier to improve from bottom dwellar to just over .500 (teams do it EVERY year) than it is to improve from just over .500 to a true SB contender IMO.

2KBack
12-22-2008, 01:28 PM
Good points. Those teams were coached by Robinson......and he didn't last very long after the the 98 season. I don't know when Shanahan fired him, but in any regard Shanahan has not kept a DC for longer than 2 or 3 years since then, thus negating any type/chance of the Broncos building an identity nor consistency on the defensive side of the ball.

I've often wondered what type of Defensive identity Denver whould have today had the Broncos organization made a committment to keep their DC for 5 year period and build thru the draft and FA to find players to fit their defensive scheme.

Robinson lived on the zone blitz, once offenses figured it out, he was useless.

I actually think Denver has started leaning towards the build through the draft philosophy. Sadly we are doing it with a lame duck DC. I defended Slowik a lot this season, but his amazing ability to stumble into scheme that works only to throw it out in favor of **** that doesn't has turned me.

baja
12-22-2008, 01:34 PM
Rick Dennison.

PRBronco
12-22-2008, 01:35 PM
I've got an idea for a new DC: Talk Shanahan into signing a stud DE in free agency, and then draft a couple of DTs.

Congratulations you just aced the interview! Can you start by sunday?

Bronx33
12-22-2008, 04:38 PM
An empty shoe box could replace slowik.

Cmac821
12-22-2008, 05:43 PM
I am thinking if we want anything done we have to do it by ourselves...I am going to put out a bounty on some peoples head.

Beantown Bronco
12-22-2008, 07:15 PM
I am thinking if we want anything done we have to do it by ourselves...I am going to put out a bounty on some peoples head.

I didn't know Terrell Suggs posted here.....cool.

footstepsfrom#27
12-22-2008, 07:29 PM
I'd go for it except I doubt New England would let him walk and what would Denver have to offer to get him?
That's the best part; the Pats didn't re-up his contract last year for some reason...he's totally free and available RIGHT NOW. :thumbs:

oubronco
12-22-2008, 07:38 PM
That's the best part; the Pats didn't re-up his contract last year for some reason...he's totally free and available RIGHT NOW. :thumbs:

Man to bad Shanny loves his Slowd*ck

fountelway
12-23-2008, 07:36 AM
jack del rio if he gets canned or romeo crennel

The Joker
12-23-2008, 02:36 PM
John Lynch.

DBroncos4life
12-23-2008, 05:15 PM
I've got an idea for a new DC: Talk Shanahan into signing a stud DE in free agency, and then draft a couple of DTs.

I think our two starting DTs are fine its the LBs and DE's that blow. Its a good thing we have some cap room this year.

Popps
12-23-2008, 05:26 PM
I've got an idea for a new DC: Talk Shanahan into signing a stud DE in free agency, and then draft a couple of DTs.

Welcome to the club, Taco. It took you a few years to get here, but the more the merrier. :sunshine:

If you need any more posts like that, no need to type them out. Just do a search for mine and copy-paste them. There should be about 9,000 of them over the past 4 years or so.

bpc
12-23-2008, 05:28 PM
Singletary, Haslett, Crennell or Dick Jauron are some of my candidates should they come available. I think all of those guys are pretty hard nosed coaches that don't BS around and bring some presence, leadership and respectability to the table... something this unit is sorely lacking.

uplink
12-23-2008, 06:57 PM
I think unfortunately Slowick stays since people in the organization like him and there have been too many changes over the recent few years.

If he was out of favor we'd see intervention by Shannahan as happened with more reputable DCs in the past (Bates last year, Rhodes after that home lost to the raiders).

TonyR
12-23-2008, 08:24 PM
I think unfortunately Slowick stays...

I agree, plus who will people on this forum have to blame every loss on if he goes?

TheDave
12-23-2008, 08:34 PM
This is going to be a long offseason...

Florida_Bronco
12-23-2008, 08:36 PM
First off, you need to throw out anyone who runs the 3-4. Shanny does not want a 3-4 defense as a base and we don't have the personnel to run it without a major overhaul.

Willynowei
12-23-2008, 09:05 PM
I think one things for sure, Slowik's technically been incharge of our Defense for one and a half seasons by this point, and the results have been atrocious.

I'm more concerned about the personell decisions than anything else. Why did we get rid of Fox for a 7th? We had only 4 corners on the roster after that. We then got rid of Hamza, who played alot better for us last year than our safeties this year. Why did it take over 10 weeks for Barrett to make the starting squad? Woodyard?

It does happen in the NFL where a backup plays better than a starter, but the question is, this season, how many of our starters have out produced their backups? What does that say about the coaching staff?

Someone's gotta be accountable for these mistakes, just last week against the Bills we saw Webster return to the lineup when Larsen was clearly the better linebacker.

Even though, Jarvis Moss - despite his lack of size has been clearly better against the run than the pass, we still use him in the nickle package with Dumerville, who should long have been replaced by Moss in the base package.

And finally, what defensive coordinator in the NFL besides slowik would've let guys like Niko and Lowry play for 3 games before canning them?

As if thats not enough, when, it was obvious to even a casual football fan from both the preseason and the Oakland game that the biggest issue with our defense was execution and discipline against the playaction pass - a problem that often comes when players are tentative and uncomfortable in the scheme... What does slowik do? He adds a brand new 3-4 package!

Our defense has changed multiple times since the begining of the year, we've gone from a 46 style, man coverage defense to a sitback cover 2/cover 3... to a 3-4 or a 3-3-5 exotic defense we used against the saints... to a pure 4-4 with Woodyard in the box and never dropping over the top against Carolina...

The really annoying thing is that we seem to come out with an entirely new defense every 2 to 3 weeks and completely abandon anything we installed 3 weeks ago. So once offenses adjust after the first drive of the game (we are really good at stopping opponents first drives)... we get torched. Over and over again.

How about... installing 1 base front and focusing on execution? OR how about... using all of the fronts in a football game for once???

I think we'd have more success just lining up and blitzing everyone and pressing the receivers than what we are doing right now.

Inkana7
12-23-2008, 09:06 PM
I think one things for sure, Slowik's technically been incharge of our Defense for one and a half seasons by this point, and the results have been atrocious.

I'm more concerned about the personell decisions than anything else. Why did we get rid of Fox for a 7th? We had only 4 corners on the roster after that. We then got rid of Hamza, who played alot better for us last year than our safeties this year. Why did it take over 10 weeks for Barrett to make the starting squad? Woodyard?

It does happen in the NFL where a backup plays better than a starter, but the question is, this season, how many of our starters have out produced their backups? What does that say about the coaching staff?

Someone's gotta be accountable for these mistakes, just last week against the Bills we saw Webster return to the lineup when Larsen was clearly the better linebacker.

Even though, Jarvis Moss - despite his lack of size has been clearly better against the run than the pass, we still use him in the nickle package with Dumerville, who should long have been replaced by Moss in the base package.

And finally, what defensive coordinator in the NFL besides slowik would've let guys like Niko and Lowry play for 3 games before canning them?

Just gotta nitpick here. Larsen's been hurt since the Jets game.

lex
12-23-2008, 09:11 PM
Just gotta nitpick here. Larsen's been hurt since the Jets game.

If you read his overall post he was saying that a lot of people were playing this year when the guy behind him was better and Larsen not playing until the Falcons game (and only because Webster was injured) is an example of that.

Inkana7
12-23-2008, 09:13 PM
It sounded like he was saying that Slowik put Webster back over Larsen last week.

lex
12-23-2008, 09:16 PM
It sounded like he was saying that Slowik put Webster back over Larsen last week.

Youre right; the part you highlighted could mean what you thought. But elsewhere he also made the point that guys havent been playing when they should have. For example, I think he mentioned Barrett not playing until week 10.

Inkana7
12-23-2008, 09:18 PM
Youre right; the part you highlighted could mean what you thought. But elsewhere he also made the point that guys havent been playing when they should have. For example, I think he mentioned Barrett not playing until week 10.

And he would be correct. I didn't disagree with him. I just disagreed with what I thought he said about Webster and Larsen last week.

Overall our defensive rooks have played outstanding. But at the same time, they're 5th, 7th round, undrafted rookies. How is the coaching staff supposed to know what they could have done? I guess one upside to all the injuries is that they've gotten their shot.

lex
12-23-2008, 09:22 PM
And he would be correct. I didn't disagree with him. I just disagreed with what I thought he said about Webster and Larsen last week.

Overall our defensive rooks have played outstanding. But at the same time, they're 5th, 7th round, undrafted rookies. How is the coaching staff supposed to know what they could have done? I guess one upside to all the injuries is that they've gotten their shot.

I guess one might say, that when youre defense is as bad as ours has been all season, why not play the younger guys...what did we have to lose? And, get this, not only was he so sure that guys like Webster were better than the rookies, he was so sure that they were willing to implement a different scheme rather than plug in the younger players first.

Willynowei
12-23-2008, 09:35 PM
And he would be correct. I didn't disagree with him. I just disagreed with what I thought he said about Webster and Larsen last week.

Overall our defensive rooks have played outstanding. But at the same time, they're 5th, 7th round, undrafted rookies. How is the coaching staff supposed to know what they could have done? I guess one upside to all the injuries is that they've gotten their shot.

You were right about Larsen I had forgotten him getting hurt in that game.

However, the draft status of football players shouldn't affect the pecking order on the depth chart; it should purely based on their performance in training camp.

Look at the offensive side of the ball, Royal beat out two free agents in Colbert and Jackson brought in specifically to be the #2 receiver. Shanny originally wanted him as a slot man.

Hillis won out for the Fullback slot. Torain got the HB slot over second year starter Selvin and free agent Pittman.

Then you look at the defensive side of the football and it reads like a madden roster. Free Agent Boss Bailey gets the nod over camp stand out and work out warrior Woodyard and Journey man Winborn - both of which looked better in the preseason and probably camp.

Mcree and Manuel are both veterans and won out over Barret by default and Hamza by injury. Foxworth gets canned.... why? Because he got burned in the preseason? By Terrell OWENS?

And I'll add just for this Slowik roast - how much presnap movement does our defense do? It seems like we are still as stone when the QB snaps the ball. No reads to make, they know exactly where we are going to be every down.

When i watched a replay of the Browns game on the NFL network i noticed something. Cleveland called the exact same play repeatedly out of a couple of different formations against us. And each time it was a big play.

It was a 5 step out pattern with Kellen Winslow vs. Marquan Manuel.

Damn, I thought this was the NFL, not Pop Warner football...

lex
12-23-2008, 09:48 PM
You were right about Larsen I had forgotten him getting hurt in that game.

However, the draft status of football players shouldn't affect the pecking order on the depth chart; it should purely based on their performance in training camp.

Look at the offensive side of the ball, Royal beat out two free agents in Colbert and Jackson brought in specifically to be the #2 receiver. Shanny originally wanted him as a slot man.

Hillis won out for the Fullback slot. Torain got the HB slot over second year starter Selvin and free agent Pittman.

Then you look at the defensive side of the football and it reads like a madden roster. Free Agent Boss Bailey gets the nod over camp stand out and work out warrior Woodyard and Journey man Winborn - both of which looked better in the preseason and probably camp.

Mcree and Manuel are both veterans and won out over Barret by default and Hamza by injury. Foxworth gets canned.... why? Because he got burned in the preseason? By Terrell OWENS?

And I'll add just for this Slowik roast - how much presnap movement does our defense do? It seems like we are still as stone when the QB snaps the ball. No reads to make, they know exactly where we are going to be every down.

When i watched a replay of the Browns game on the NFL network i noticed something. Cleveland called the exact same play repeatedly out of a couple of different formations against us. And each time it was a big play.

It was a 5 step out pattern with Kellen Winslow vs. Marquan Manuel.

Damn, I thought this was the NFL, not Pop Warner football...

I agree with much of what youre saying but, I think some of the rookies might have made improvement during the season. This is something Ive complained about before that coaches are too focused on the roster at the end of training camp remaining static, especially, as you say, on defense. But having seen Larsen play in college, I think it was very telling that he had his best games against USC and Oregon, the two Pac 10 teams who likely have the best athletes. I say this because people think he is not athletic enough but we seem to want to write him off as a Mike and force him into playing FB.

summerdenver
12-23-2008, 09:50 PM
I think one things for sure, Slowik's technically been incharge of our Defense for one and a half seasons by this point, and the results have been atrocious.

I'm more concerned about the personell decisions than anything else. Why did we get rid of Fox for a 7th? We had only 4 corners on the roster after that. We then got rid of Hamza, who played alot better for us last year than our safeties this year. Why did it take over 10 weeks for Barrett to make the starting squad? Woodyard?

It does happen in the NFL where a backup plays better than a starter, but the question is, this season, how many of our starters have out produced their backups? What does that say about the coaching staff?

Someone's gotta be accountable for these mistakes, just last week against the Bills we saw Webster return to the lineup when Larsen was clearly the better linebacker.

Even though, Jarvis Moss - despite his lack of size has been clearly better against the run than the pass, we still use him in the nickle package with Dumerville, who should long have been replaced by Moss in the base package.

And finally, what defensive coordinator in the NFL besides slowik would've let guys like Niko and Lowry play for 3 games before canning them?

As if thats not enough, when, it was obvious to even a casual football fan from both the preseason and the Oakland game that the biggest issue with our defense was execution and discipline against the playaction pass - a problem that often comes when players are tentative and uncomfortable in the scheme... What does slowik do? He adds a brand new 3-4 package!

Our defense has changed multiple times since the begining of the year, we've gone from a 46 style, man coverage defense to a sitback cover 2/cover 3... to a 3-4 or a 3-3-5 exotic defense we used against the saints... to a pure 4-4 with Woodyard in the box and never dropping over the top against Carolina...

The really annoying thing is that we seem to come out with an entirely new defense every 2 to 3 weeks and completely abandon anything we installed 3 weeks ago. So once offenses adjust after the first drive of the game (we are really good at stopping opponents first drives)... we get torched. Over and over again.

How about... installing 1 base front and focusing on execution? OR how about... using all of the fronts in a football game for once???

I think we'd have more success just lining up and blitzing everyone and pressing the receivers than what we are doing right now.

rep.

Excelent summary of what has been wrong about Den defense this year. The really frustating thing about this is that most of these issues are common sense and even fans like us can see whats wrong. How the f&*$ does a professional organization keeps repeating these mistakes?

maher_tyler
12-23-2008, 10:39 PM
Not that Im under any delusions that input from an internet message boards matters when it comes to getting in the way of Shanahan's cronyism, however obvious it may be.

I submit

Mark Banker, who is the DC for Oregon State.

Bill Shuey, LB coach, Phil Eagles

Bill Sheridan, LB coach, NY Giants

Mike Waufle, DL coach, NY Giants

I submit myself...can't be any worse!!

Beantown Bronco
12-24-2008, 06:23 AM
Singletary, Haslett, Crennell or Dick Jauron are some of my candidates should they come available. I think all of those guys are pretty hard nosed coaches that don't BS around and bring some presence, leadership and respectability to the table... something this unit is sorely lacking.

Jauron just signed an extension with the Bills.

nickademus
12-24-2008, 07:32 AM
I am surprised there isnt more love for Wade Phillips here. we all know that he is done after this season so why not start the bandwagon now?

Rohirrim
12-24-2008, 07:37 AM
This is going to be a long offseason...

It always is. ROFL!

summerdenver
12-24-2008, 08:39 AM
I am surprised there isnt more love for Wade Phillips here. we all know that he is done after this season so why not start the bandwagon now?

+1

TonyR
12-24-2008, 08:47 AM
Willy, you make some great points in your posts above. Good stuff. My only thought is that you let Shanahan off the hook far too easily. Don't believe for a second that Mikey Mastermind isn't involved at some level in the gameplan. He does oversee the operation and the defense is obviously a major part of it. Slowik doesn't have carte blanche.

TonyR
12-24-2008, 08:50 AM
I am surprised there isnt more love for Wade Phillips here. we all know that he is done after this season so why not start the bandwagon now?

Right now the scuttlebutt is that Phillips will be back in Dallas next season.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/22/phillips-to-be-back-for-the-boys/

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/12/24/jerry-jones-says-wade-phillips-job-isnt-in-danger-takes-shot/

HooptyHoops
12-24-2008, 08:54 AM
I am surprised there isnt more love for Wade Phillips here. we all know that he is done after this season so why not start the bandwagon now?

I'll be in his bandwagon if the Cowboys let him go....:thumbs:

Br0nc0Buster
12-24-2008, 08:56 AM
Is it a given Slowick will be gone next year?

TonyR
12-24-2008, 08:57 AM
Is it a given Slowick will be gone next year?

Far from it in my opinion. I'd say the smart money is on him coming back.

baja
12-24-2008, 09:26 AM
Is it a given Slowick will be gone next year?

No not a given

Traveler
12-24-2008, 10:15 AM
No not a given

What's the over/under on whether Slowik remains?

Beantown Bronco
12-24-2008, 10:18 AM
What's the over/under on whether Slowik remains?

How do you get an over/under on a yes/no question?

400HZ
12-24-2008, 10:30 AM
I'll be in his bandwagon if the Cowboys let him go....:thumbs:

Wade is a premier coordinator in this league. He's not going to go to a team that a) fired him and b) goes through coordinators like a Dodge goes through trannies.

Beantown Bronco
12-24-2008, 10:32 AM
Wade is a premier coordinator in this league. He's not going to go to a team that a) fired him and b) goes through coordinators like a Dodge goes through trannies.

Sounds like Bob and Dodge have something in common.

Traveler
12-24-2008, 10:40 AM
How do you get an over/under on a yes/no question?

Smart ass!;D

24champ
10-22-2009, 12:24 PM
Nolan and fire everyone on the current staff so he can bring in his own people to install the 3-4.

Why should Rev get all the credit around here?ROFL!

DenverBrit
10-22-2009, 02:31 PM
Why should Rev get all the credit around here?ROFL!


Nolan and fire everyone on the current staff so he can bring in his own people to install the 3-4.



:thumbsup: