View Full Version : See a pattern here?
Fire Greg Robinson out defense sucks
Fire Rhodes our defense sucks
Fire Coyer our defense sucks
Fire Bates our defense sucks
Fire Slowick our defense sucks.
See a pattern here ?
AZBroncomaniac
12-15-2008, 12:05 AM
Fire Greg Robinson out defense sucks
Fire Rhodes our defense sucks
Fire Coyer our defense sucks
Fire Bates our defense sucks
Fire Slowick our defense sucks.
See a pattern here ?
Our defense sucks, and the suckage will continue.
tsiguy96
12-15-2008, 12:13 AM
like i said in another thread...shanahan HAS to have some sort of input into the defense for it to constantly suck...
oh and for the OP...maybe if the defense didnt suck, they wouldnt have gotten fired.
Kid A
12-15-2008, 12:13 AM
Fire Greg Robinson out defense sucks
Fire Rhodes our defense sucks
Fire Coyer our defense sucks
Fire Bates our defense sucks
Fire Slowick our defense sucks.
See a pattern here ?
Greg Robinson placed a curse upon the position when he was fired?
BroncoMan4ever
12-15-2008, 01:00 AM
Fire Greg Robinson out defense sucks
Fire Rhodes our defense sucks
Fire Coyer our defense sucks
Fire Bates our defense sucks
Fire Slowick our defense sucks.
See a pattern here ?
sad thing is that with Rhodes and Coyer the defense was actually elite in comparison to what Bates and Slowik did to it.
i would be happy as hell with Coyer's sytem right now. bend but don't break, get pressure, let the DB's play physical, give up the occasional big play, but also cause a lot of turnovers.
if our defense now were to play like they did under Coyer, i wouldn't mind the big plays that are given up, because i would know the D would come up big eventually. now it is just grind it out and systematically carve apart the D or destroy on a big play, only now their is no upside coming, just more mind numbing stupidity on the part of Slowik.
footstepsfrom#27
12-15-2008, 01:31 AM
Shanny's teams suck on D...old news. Can it be changed? Yes. Will it? I doubt it. He's had 10 years to figure this out and still hasn't. The only hope is a couple of huge defensive drafts so the talent is just overwhelming.
Ratboy
12-15-2008, 03:59 AM
Pattern? It's pretty obvious.
http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2005/10/06/320x240/images_sizedimage_279150528.jpg
Mike: No, I don't see a pattern, any time you lose half your starters on defense, you're going to struggle.
Ratboy
12-15-2008, 04:00 AM
Now the question is, Who the **** thought playing a safety 40 yards down the field was smart? That ****-wad should be fired ASAP.
Worst defensive performance ever.
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 04:40 AM
Worst defensive performance ever.
The Broncos defense performed better against Carolina than the top 5 unit coached by everyone's defensive coordinator wet dream......TB's defense/Monte Kiffen.
Wes Mantooth
12-15-2008, 04:58 AM
Now the question is, Who the **** thought playing a safety 40 yards down the field was smart? That ****-wad should be fired ASAP.
Worst defensive performance ever.
2002 (I think) MNF at home against the Raiders was much worse.
Tombstone RJ
12-15-2008, 05:03 AM
the only pattern I see is a young defense learning and making mistakes. I also see a defense that takes plays and games off. hopefully, this will all change come playoff time...
rastaman
12-15-2008, 05:08 AM
The Broncos defense performed better against Carolina than the top 5 unit coached by everyone's defensive coordinator wet dream......TB's defense/Monte Kiffen.
Well they did show improvements in areas, but giving up over 400 yards of total offense, shows this Defense needs plenty of help and soul searching.
This team is who they are when the left training camp!!!! There are only so much adjustments you can do once the season starts. Its the off-season and training camp when Championship teams are forged. Its the off-season and training camp when loosing seasons and inconsistent performance is revealed and forged.
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 05:15 AM
Well they did show improvements in areas, but giving up over 400 yards of total offense, shows this Defense needs plenty of help and soul searching.
Carolina is a GREAT team right now, arguably the best in the entire league. Who is hotter?
Think about it.
In their 4 games prior to this one, they were averaging 33 pts and 213 yards on the ground. The Broncos held them UNDER those amounts. And considering the Broncos offense turned the ball over twice and pretty much did nothing after the first quarter to help them out, that's HUGE.
Sure this isn't a great defense. We all knew that. But it has been holding teams under their league averages more than not the past 8-10 weeks, and that's more than we were asking for. It just so happens that, when they lose, it's because the offense turns the ball over and can only score 10 or so points. They are not losing shootouts.
Tombstone RJ
12-15-2008, 05:34 AM
Carolina is a GREAT team right now, arguably the best in the entire league. Who is hotter?
Think about it.
In their 4 games prior to this one, they were averaging 33 pts and 213 yards on the ground. The Broncos held them UNDER those amounts. And considering the Broncos offense turned the ball over twice and pretty much did nothing after the first quarter to help them out, that's HUGE.
Sure this isn't a great defense. We all knew that. But it has been holding teams under their league averages more than not the past 8-10 weeks, and that's more than we were asking for. It just so happens that, when they lose, it's because the offense turns the ball over and can only score 10 or so points. They are not losing shootouts.
what he said
Rock Chalk
12-15-2008, 05:37 AM
The Broncos defense performed better against Carolina than the top 5 unit coached by everyone's defensive coordinator wet dream......TB's defense/Monte Kiffen.
Save one big run Denver's defense played pretty well. Didnt help that our offense fell on its face after the first quarter.
Just because youre tired of changing DCs, that doesnt mean we should settle for an obvious dud.
Defense has played better the last few weeks. But let's face facts here. Undrafted rookie corner vs a pro bowl wideout... that equals fail.
Still struggling with a pass rush, but that's every year and lack of spending free agent dollars to upgrade.
Scheme and game plan can't make up for lack of talent.
barryr
12-15-2008, 06:03 AM
Shanahan just doesn't know how to pick a DC if his life depended on it, but his Bronco coaching career will soon depend on it though. You just can't win consistently in the NFL if your defense can't make stops, especially in key moments of the game.
HorseHead
12-15-2008, 06:06 AM
Greg Williams is looking for work....
barryr
12-15-2008, 06:07 AM
Yep, I mentioned him in another thread. At least he's a proven guy.
RaiderH8r
12-15-2008, 06:11 AM
Our defense plays the best when its off the field. The fact we have no running game means our D spends a lot of time on the field. They played pretty well (a damn sight better than TB) in the first half. You could see they were quite gassed and the fact we couldn't run the rock for sh!t meant we had no clock control or time of posession.
Our D got off the field on 3rd down a number of times yesterday and got a nut up when Cutler up chucked that wounded duck of a pick in our own territory. We need a running game and that is what is killing our D and our team more than anything right now. We're not one dimensional on offense because of anything teams are doing to scheme against us, we're one dimensional because our RB corps consist of 2 panty wastes and a fumble prone speedster with a fear of contact.
Our D looked nice against the J-E-T-S and we had a running game going. That's the pattern we should be looking at people.
I'm sick of firing DCs. I'm ready to give Slowik a college chance, 4 years, get your guys, set your D and then we'll talk about the sh!tcan.
rastaman
12-15-2008, 06:18 AM
Shanahan just doesn't know how to pick a DC if his life depended on it, but his Bronco coaching career will soon depend on it though. You just can't win consistently in the NFL if your defense can't make stops, especially in key moments of the game.
Shanahan has never depended upon a Defense for his success as a coach!!! Shanahan simply believes that high scoring/efficientt Offenses win games and SB's, with a decent talented bend don't break Defense as a stop gap.
Also, Shanahan refined and mastered the offensive side of the ball while an OC with the 49ers back in the 90's.
Over the last 10 years, Shanahan had the opportunity to land some of the top proven Defensive coord in the NFL but for one reason or another he failed to do so. DC's like Ron Rivera, the Ryan Brothers, and Mike Singletary have been available......but Shanny wasn't interested.
I'd love to have a fiery DC of the like Mike Singletary to light a fire under the defensive players Denver. Hell why not show Joe Collier some respect by bringing him in as a consultant----do anything besides using the same failed Defensive blue print implemented since Robinson was fired.
Lastly, since the majority of the Defensive players are so young, Shanahan would do well to go out and search the college ranks for the top 5 Division I Defensive Coordinators who run a pro style defense and see what happens. You can't do any worse than what you have with Slowick. The Denver defense definitely needs an infusion of rah-rah, pin your ears back, tackle fundmentally, let it all hang out mind set---thats for sure.
WolfpackGuy
12-15-2008, 06:19 AM
I'm not defending the defense, but they're not good enough to go out and win the game when the offense poops the bed like yesterday. 10 points and 2 turnovers in your own end isn't going to cut it.
Traveler
12-15-2008, 06:22 AM
Is it me or is the only pass rush move our DE have is a bullrush? F'n ridiculous.
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 06:28 AM
You just can't win consistently in the NFL if your defense can't make stops, especially in key moments of the game.
You really need to watch the Jets game again.
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 06:30 AM
Just because youre tired of changing DCs, that doesnt mean we should settle for an obvious dud.
I don't think he's a dud. What he's managed to do with a bunch of rookies and guys that wouldn't be starting in NFL Europa is actually fairly impressive.
DenverBrit
12-15-2008, 07:53 AM
I don't think he's a dud. What he's managed to do with a bunch of rookies and guys that wouldn't be starting in NFL Europa is actually fairly impressive.
But...but...it's Slowik's fault, any other coordinator would have a solid, playoff caliber defense with this group of players.
Taco John
12-15-2008, 08:03 AM
But...but...it's Slowik's fault, any other coordinator would have a solid, playoff caliber defense with this group of players.
Coyer would have.
ludo21
12-15-2008, 08:08 AM
Our offense stalling consistently did not help the D out either.
Popps
12-15-2008, 08:09 AM
Is it me or is the only pass rush move our DE have is a bullrush? F'n ridiculous.
It's not you... and there's nothing like a couple of 200 LB DEs bull-rushing you, right! ::)
Spider
12-15-2008, 08:14 AM
Fire Greg Robinson out defense sucks
Fire Rhodes our defense sucks
Fire Coyer our defense sucks
Fire Bates our defense sucks
Fire Slowick our defense sucks.
See a pattern here ?
yep I do ......... none of these guys live in Hawaii
oubronco
12-15-2008, 08:15 AM
Save one big run Denver's defense played pretty well. Didnt help that our offense fell on its face after the first quarter.
it's called in game adjustments and shanny has no fuggin clue on what that is script 1st 15 plays and after those are gone his genius shows strong
Taco John
12-15-2008, 08:20 AM
it's called in game adjustments and shanny has no fuggin clue on what that is script 1st 15 plays and after those are gone his genius shows strong
Someone sure doesn't have a friggin clue, with takes like that, that's for sure.
TonyR
12-15-2008, 08:26 AM
Our defense sucks because of poor drafts prior to '06. Including the '06 draft we only have 3 drafted players on our roster from that draft and all previous drafts: Dumervil ('06), Paymah ('05), D.J. Williams ('04). Add to that a fairly poor record of defensive free agents and you get what we have now. Hopefully our more recent draft improvement will start showing up on the defensive side of the ball.
DenverBrit
12-15-2008, 08:33 AM
Coyer would have.
We always love the guy who isn't here anymore. ;D
colonelbeef
12-15-2008, 08:34 AM
The Broncos defense performed better against Carolina than the top 5 unit coached by everyone's defensive coordinator wet dream......TB's defense/Monte Kiffen.
shhh, this is where all of the overemotional people come to freak out, regardless of logic or reason
skpac1001
12-15-2008, 08:38 AM
Just because youre tired of changing DCs, that doesnt mean we should settle for an obvious dud.
Slowik should be fired, but those who think he is the biggest problem with the defense and things will be much better after he is fired should re-read the original post. The only significant improvement is going to come from better players in a stable scheme.
Meck77
12-15-2008, 08:39 AM
it's called in game adjustments and shanny has no fuggin clue on what that is script 1st 15 plays and after those are gone his genius shows strong
So I guess you take back your statement "We will win out"?
Would have loved to see a win but it was pretty clear going in Carolina is a dominant team.
I don't think he's a dud. What he's managed to do with a bunch of rookies and guys that wouldn't be starting in NFL Europa is actually fairly impressive.
Thats nice. Go ask Green Bay fans what they think of him. He took over a top 10 defense from Ed Donatell in Green Bay and turned it into a bottom feeder defense in one year...and then Bates came in and cleaned up Slowiks mess in two years...and the year that Slowik was a DC in GB, it was the same nonsense with giving up massive passing yardage, minimal INTs, etc.
Taco John
12-15-2008, 08:42 AM
We always love the guy who isn't here anymore. ;D
I loved him when he was here and thought that he didn't get a fair shake. Coyer had a way of motivating his players to play over their heads. Just look at what he managed to get out of the Browncos squad. Ultimately, he couldn't hide the lack of talent forever, but until that point came, he was able to squeeze every last drop of talent out of our guys.
He's exactly the kind of guy we need right now. Though, I sure wouldn't mind getting Wade Phillips back.
oubronco
12-15-2008, 08:43 AM
So I guess you take back your statement "We will win out"?
Would have loved to see a win but it was pretty clear going in Carolina is a dominant team.
i'm sorry i guess i have to................. damn shanny ;D
I loved him when he was here and thought that he didn't get a fair shake. Coyer had a way of motivating his players to play over their heads. Just look at what he managed to get out of the Browncos squad. Ultimately, he couldn't hide the lack of talent forever, but until that point came, he was able to squeeze every last drop of talent out of our guys.
He's exactly the kind of guy we need right now. Though, I sure wouldn't mind getting Wade Phillips back.
Coyer was not without flaw but it was definitely within him to scheme pressure. Also, when we were torched, it was by guys like Manning and not every slug in the league. Coyer was so much better than Slowik that its not even funny. Im not saying Coyer was/is great but he is compared to Slowik.
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 08:52 AM
Thats nice. Go ask Green Bay fans what they think of him. He took over a top 10 defense from Ed Donatell in Green Bay and turned it into a bottom feeder defense in one year
Too many factors affected that.
Injuries
Different players
Learning curve
Different position coaches
Not to get too far off topic, but judging a defensive coordinator after one season is kind of like judging a president after their first year in office. Waaaay too many factors out of one's control affect what you can do in that first year.
And like you alluded to in your post, it took Bates TWO years to turn it back around after that. What if they only gave Bates one year? He would've "failed" too.
Spider
12-15-2008, 08:53 AM
Coyer was not without flaw but it was definitely within him to scheme pressure. Also, when we were torched, it was by guys like Manning and not every slug in the league. Coyer was so much better than Slowik that its not even funny. Im not saying Coyer was/is great but he is compared to Slowik.
there has only been 2 D.C. that never had a flaw in the NFL .... Joe Collier and his orange Crush defense and Bud Carson and the steel curtain defense ........
Spider
12-15-2008, 08:55 AM
Too many factors affected that.
Injuries
Different players
Learning curve
Different position coaches
Not to get too far off topic, but judging a defensive coordinator after one season is kind of like judging a president after their first year in office. Waaaay too many factors out of one's control affect what you can do in that first year.
And like you alluded to in your post, it took Bates TWO years to turn it back around after that. What if they only gave Bates one year? He would've "failed" too. well in todays NFL , Idont think we will ever see a orange crush or a steel curtain defense again , the P.I. penalties , the hitting a defenseless receiver penalties will see to that
tsiguy96
12-15-2008, 09:04 AM
i dont understnad how you can want slowik to stay, do you see ANY sort of blitzing or pressure, balls being deflected, interceptions, ANYTHING you want a defense to do, ever? a good DC can atleast account for the lack of talent on his team by scheming. you cant get pressure, you BLITZ. we dont do that. you cant stop a reciever man on man, you DOUBLE COVER HIM. we dont do that. we do single coverage with 15 yard cushions and a safety 30 yards downfield. thats a PREVENT defense, and we run it all game.
the only pattern I see is a young defense learning and making mistakes. I also see a defense that takes plays and games off. hopefully, this will all change come playoff time...
I see your dim mind extends past the WPR forum. ;D
The pattern is Shanahan keeps firing the defensive coach without up grading the defensive talent and expects a different result. In case you are wondering when you do the same thing over and over and expect a different result that is the definition of insanity.
Too many factors affected that.
Injuries
Different players
Learning curve
Different position coaches
Not to get too far off topic, but judging a defensive coordinator after one season is kind of like judging a president after their first year in office. Waaaay too many factors out of one's control affect what you can do in that first year.
And like you alluded to in your post, it took Bates TWO years to turn it back around after that. What if they only gave Bates one year? He would've "failed" too.
Actually, Slowik was DC for the better part of last season.
Just because youre tired of changing DCs, that doesnt mean we should settle for an obvious dud.
I agree but the question is with Pat Bowlen's stellar organization why can't we get a good one? It's been a ten year run!
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 09:11 AM
Actually, Slowik was DC for the better part of last season.
Huh? You were talking about his one year in GB. THAT was what I was responding to.
Defense has played better the last few weeks. But let's face facts here. Undrafted rookie corner vs a pro bowl wideout... that equals fail.
Still struggling with a pass rush, but that's every year and lack of spending free agent dollars to upgrade.
Scheme and game plan can't make up for lack of talent.
One question for you HEAV should it take ten years to find a good DC and field a good defense? This defense has been gelling for ten years!
go_broncos
12-15-2008, 09:12 AM
If our team doesn't make playoff's this year, Shanny needs to be fired.
Regarding injuries, why are we taking soft/injured players??
Tatum Bell, Selving Young, Boss Bailey,Andre Hall, Torrain, Nate Jackson etc.
We know that these player's cant play full seasons and yet take them.
And then, we say our season is lost because of injuries.
Next year, if we go with the same player's they will get injured again.
I believe the problem with our team is the Coach.
He needs to be fired if we don't reach playoff's this year.
DenverBrit
12-15-2008, 09:13 AM
I loved him when he was here and thought that he didn't get a fair shake. Coyer had a way of motivating his players to play over their heads. Just look at what he managed to get out of the Browncos squad. Ultimately, he couldn't hide the lack of talent forever, but until that point came, he was able to squeeze every last drop of talent out of our guys.
He's exactly the kind of guy we need right now. Though, I sure wouldn't mind getting Wade Phillips back.
I liked Coyer, though I think he was a better LB coach than DC.
Honestly, with the injuries, rookie replacements and scrubs.....not too mention the lack of playmakers, no DC could do much with this group.
Missed tackles and blown coverages are a product of the talent....and lack of experience.
The Goodmans need to focus hard on the D this year.
Sure, bring Wade back.
Our defense plays the best when its off the field. The fact we have no running game means our D spends a lot of time on the field. They played pretty well (a damn sight better than TB) in the first half. You could see they were quite gassed and the fact we couldn't run the rock for sh!t meant we had no clock control or time of posession.
Our D got off the field on 3rd down a number of times yesterday and got a nut up when Cutler up chucked that wounded duck of a pick in our own territory. We need a running game and that is what is killing our D and our team more than anything right now. We're not one dimensional on offense because of anything teams are doing to scheme against us, we're one dimensional because our RB corps consist of 2 panty wastes and a fumble prone speedster with a fear of contact.
Our D looked nice against the J-E-T-S and we had a running game going. That's the pattern we should be looking at people.
I'm sick of firing DCs. I'm ready to give Slowik a college chance, 4 years, get your guys, set your D and then we'll talk about the sh!tcan.
As usual you make good points but we are not talking about one game in this thread we are addressing the inability of Shanahan to field a good defense for ten years now while running through 6 DC's in that time span. You don't see a problem?
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:17 AM
I agree but the question is with Pat Bowlen's stellar organization why can't we get a good one? It's been a ten year run!
I dont think there is one , take Dick LeBeau for example , his defense has given up more then 20 points a game a few times this year ...... and they have played some pretty inept offenses ..........
TonyR
12-15-2008, 09:18 AM
If our team doesn't make playoff's this year, Shanny needs to be fired.
I believe the problem with our team is the Coach.
He needs to be fired if we don't reach playoff's this year.
Uh-oh, time for all hell to break loose!
I'm not defending the defense, but they're not good enough to go out and win the game when the offense poops the bed like yesterday. 10 points and 2 turnovers in your own end isn't going to cut it.
Many of you bring up the 10 points I would remind you the other team scored 30 and it would have been more if they had needed it.
29 wasn't going to get it done either
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 09:22 AM
Some people just need to ratchet down their expectations a little. Some weeks, they say they'd be happy with a league-average defense, but the more I read some posters here, the more I'm convinced that some folks wouldn't be satisfied by anything less than the Broncos early season offense + the Ravens/Steelers defense week in and week out. Sorry guys, but you can't have both in today's NFL. It just doesn't happen.
Our defense sucks because of poor drafts prior to '06. Including the '06 draft we only have 3 drafted players on our roster from that draft and all previous drafts: Dumervil ('06), Paymah ('05), D.J. Williams ('04). Add to that a fairly poor record of defensive free agents and you get what we have now. Hopefully our more recent draft improvement will start showing up on the defensive side of the ball.
I too think the poor drafts are a big part of the problem.
oubronco
12-15-2008, 09:25 AM
schemes suck as well
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:25 AM
and for the record , people talk about Denver being lucky to win a few games ......watch the steelers .......
oubronco
12-15-2008, 09:27 AM
they only gave up 9 points though
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:30 AM
they only gave up 9 points though
Yeah , but they also had the T.O.P. by a few minutes and that is damn near an eternity in NFL time
I loved him when he was here and thought that he didn't get a fair shake. Coyer had a way of motivating his players to play over their heads. Just look at what he managed to get out of the Browncos squad. Ultimately, he couldn't hide the lack of talent forever, but until that point came, he was able to squeeze every last drop of talent out of our guys.
He's exactly the kind of guy we need right now. Though, I sure wouldn't mind getting Wade Phillips back.
I want Phillips too and give him free reign over the Defense.
tsiguy96
12-15-2008, 09:33 AM
Some people just need to ratchet down their expectations a little. Some weeks, they say they'd be happy with a league-average defense, but the more I read some posters here, the more I'm convinced that some folks wouldn't be satisfied by anything less than the Broncos early season offense + the Ravens/Steelers defense week in and week out. Sorry guys, but you can't have both in today's NFL. It just doesn't happen.
no one on this forum said anything like that. we want the defense to show ANY sign of competence. they never do.
oubronco
12-15-2008, 09:34 AM
Yeah , but they also had the T.O.P. by a few minutes and that is damn near an eternity in NFL time
their team plays strong and knows how to win we'll get there in time
oubronco
12-15-2008, 09:34 AM
no one on this forum said anything like that. we want the defense to show ANY sign of competence. they never do.
not only that some IMPROVEMENT would be nice
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:36 AM
well there are alot of things going on here then just defense ...... Power football , clock management ....... but we had our shots yesterday , didnt convert .....
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:37 AM
their team plays strong and knows how to win we'll get there in time
thats the key ........ Team plays strong ..... all 3 phases .
their team plays strong and knows how to win we'll get there in time
I see they were able to put together a strong team just a few years after winning the SB as well.
Beantown Bronco
12-15-2008, 09:38 AM
no one on this forum said anything like that. we want the defense to show ANY sign of competence. they never do.
People see what they want to see.
Would "competence" be something like "holding teams UNDER their season averages in points and yards?
Because, if so, this team has done that a number of times this season. But people here don't see this because they get so freaking caught up in the CB cushions on 3rd and 20 that they simply refuse to see or hear about anything remotely positive about the unit overall.
oubronco
12-15-2008, 09:38 AM
thats the key ........ Team plays strong ..... all 3 phases .
even coaching
thats the key ........ Team plays strong ..... all 3 phases .
And it did not take 10 years to get there either.
oubronco
12-15-2008, 09:40 AM
I see they were able to put together a strong team just a few years after winning the SB as well.
more good drafts and some competent coaching stick to a scheme and they will get there
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:43 AM
And it did not take 10 years to get there either.
From 1979 -95 and they lost the SB then..... from 95 to 2005 , from 2005 -?
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:45 AM
even coaching
??? ........Last year the Steelers lost a wild card game.........
RaiderH8r
12-15-2008, 09:45 AM
As usual you make good points but we are not talking about one game in this thread we are addressing the inability of Shanahan to field a good defense for ten years now while running through 6 DC's in that time span. You don't see a problem?
Oh I definitely see a problem and I think part of it is that we've gone through 6 dc's in 10 years. That's a crap shelf life. I think that high turn over has quantitatively had an adverse effect on our D each and every year. I think every DC has his own ideas and schemes and tinkers in different ways but if you're a player on D in Denver you just don't buy into a scheme because 60% of the time that scheme is out the window in the following year or two.
I'm as guilty as anybody for jumping on the "Fire Numbnuts" bandwagons over the years and now I'm ready to stop. We've gone through the roulette wheel of DCs and nothing good has come of it. I'm ready to ride a guy out, let him build his defense. Let him work to get staff and put something together. That's something we sure as hell haven't done in the past 10 years and that's the approach I'm ready to try for now. If Slowik ain't the guy then bounce him now, but sooner or later this team is going to have to commit to a defense if they hope to ever get out of this defensive mire.
Again, no small part of our D woes have been the fact that our O can't hold onto the rock or control the clock with the running game, let alone build a lead. I think our D has shown tremendous improvement over where they were week 1. I think they relied too heavily on Champ and it seemed as if they played each game expecting Champ to make the big play/turnover/pick to get them out of jams and it didn't happen. Since Champ's injury our front 7 have been playing more down hill and more frequently moving the LOS back (relative to early in the season). We have work to do but we also have glaring talent gaps in that D and if we don't address them through draft and solid FA acquisitions I'll have to question the FO's logic.
Yesterday Slowik took away Carolina's running game (someting TB wishes they could have done and failed miserably) and forced Delhomme to beat us. Unfortunately he did. Had our O been able to effectively run the ball and open the full compliment of plays we have with a sound running game I think we would have seen a much more competitive game yesterday. Unfortunately sh!t happens and we have to deal with running the 8th man down our depth chart as our starting RB.
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:51 AM
odd ..... first the Broncos
2007 7-9-0 2nd -- AFC West --
2006 9-7-0 3rd -- AFC West --
2005 13-3-0 1st -- AFC West 1-1 -
2004 10-6-0 2nd -- AFC West 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs
2003 10-6-0 2nd -- AFC West 0-1 -
2002 9-7-0 2nd -- AFC West --
2001 8-8-0 3rd -- AFC West --
2000 11-5-0 2nd -- AFC West 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs
1999 6-10-0 5th -- AFC West --
1998 14-2-0 1st -- AFC West 3-0 - Won Superbowl
1997 12-4-0 2nd -- AFC West 4-0 - Won Superbowl
1996 13-3-0 1st -- AFC West 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs
1995 8-8-0 T3rd -- AFC West --
Now the Steelers
2007 10-6-0 1st -- AFC North 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs
2006 8-8-0 T3rd -- AFC North --
2005 11-5-0 2nd -- AFC North 4-0 - Won Superbowl
2004 15-1-0 1st -- AFC North 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship
2003 6-10-0 3rd -- AFC North --
2002 10-5-1 1st -- AFC North 1-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs
2001 13-3-0 1st -- AFC Central 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship
2000 9-7-0 3rd -- AFC Central --
1999 6-10-0 4th -- AFC Central --
1998 7-9-0 3rd -- AFC Central --
1997 11-5-0 1st -- AFC Central 1-1 - Lost Conference Championship
1996 10-6-0 1st -- AFC Central 1-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs
1995 11-5-0 1st -- AFC Central 2-1 - Lost Superbowl
Oh I definitely see a problem and I think part of it is that we've gone through 6 dc's in 10 years. That's a crap shelf life. I think that high turn over has quantitatively had an adverse effect on our D each and every year. I think every DC has his own ideas and schemes and tinkers in different ways but if you're a player on D in Denver you just don't buy into a scheme because 60% of the time that scheme is out the window in the following year or two.
I'm as guilty as anybody for jumping on the "Fire Numbnuts" bandwagons over the years and now I'm ready to stop. We've gone through the roulette wheel of DCs and nothing good has come of it. I'm ready to ride a guy out, let him build his defense. Let him work to get staff and put something together. That's something we sure as hell haven't done in the past 10 years and that's the approach I'm ready to try for now. If Slowik ain't the guy then bounce him now, but sooner or later this team is going to have to commit to a defense if they hope to ever get out of this defensive mire.
Again, no small part of our D woes have been the fact that our O can't hold onto the rock or control the clock with the running game, let alone build a lead. I think our D has shown tremendous improvement over where they were week 1. I think they relied too heavily on Champ and it seemed as if they played each game expecting Champ to make the big play/turnover/pick to get them out of jams and it didn't happen. Since Champ's injury our front 7 have been playing more down hill and more frequently moving the LOS back (relative to early in the season). We have work to do but we also have glaring talent gaps in that D and if we don't address them through draft and solid FA acquisitions I'll have to question the FO's logic.
Yesterday Slowik took away Carolina's running game (someting TB wishes they could have done and failed miserably) and forced Delhomme to beat us. Unfortunately he did. Had our O been able to effectively run the ball and open the full compliment of plays we have with a sound running game I think we would have seen a much more competitive game yesterday. Unfortunately sh!t happens and we have to deal with running the 8th man down our depth chart as our starting RB.
Yes, yes, yes, all good reasons as to why we lost Yesterday.
I have been making these same excuses for my Broncos for ten years now.
I am growing weary of it.
__________________
Spider
12-15-2008, 09:59 AM
I know it is a running joke here , but it does take along time after you win a SB , Cowboys 95 -2005 and counting ....
Tampa going on 8 years and counting
Niners 89 to 2005 and counting ....
I know it is a running joke here , but it does take along time after you win a SB , Cowboys 95 -2005 and counting ....
Tampa going on 8 years and counting
Niners 89 to 2005 and counting ....
I'm not talking about winning another SB here I'm talking about fielding a good defense.
Spider
12-15-2008, 10:06 AM
I'm not talking about winning another SB here I'm talking about fielding a good defense.
ok , name one dominating defense over a 3 year span ?
if anything denver is par with the rest of the NFL
TonyR
12-15-2008, 10:11 AM
I know it is a running joke here , but it does take along time after you win a SB , Cowboys 95 -2005 and counting ....
Tampa going on 8 years and counting
Niners 89 to 2005 and counting ....
How about winning a playoff game? We've won one since our Super Bowl years.
tsiguy96
12-15-2008, 10:11 AM
ok , name one dominating defense over a 3 year span ?
if anything denver is par with the rest of the NFL
are you kidding? weve fielded a bottom 5 defense the last 2 years in a row...
24champ
12-15-2008, 10:12 AM
I loved him when he was here and thought that he didn't get a fair shake. Coyer had a way of motivating his players to play over their heads. Just look at what he managed to get out of the Browncos squad. Ultimately, he couldn't hide the lack of talent forever, but until that point came, he was able to squeeze every last drop of talent out of our guys.
He's exactly the kind of guy we need right now. Though, I sure wouldn't mind getting Wade Phillips back.
Yep.
Coyer was kick azz!
Ah the days where we couldn't stop a third down to save our life, see Pitt AFCCG, and our defense folded like a cheap Chinese tent in games that actually matter, see colts. If he was so good as D-cord. then he would have landed a cordinator job somewhere else. To be fair, I think he is a fine position coach, as he is with the Bucs right now but he isn't anything great or special at D-cord.
What we really need to do is ****can Burney DL coach, Johnson DL coach, Bradford DB coach and Ryan LB. Need to get better position coaches. Those guys have been coaching on the defensive side of the ball way too long without any results to show for it.
Spider
12-15-2008, 10:15 AM
How about winning a playoff game? We've won one since our Super Bowl years.
well then there is your win . we have won 1 ...... next
Spider
12-15-2008, 10:16 AM
are you kidding? weve fielded a bottom 5 defense the last 2 years in a row...
No name 1 dominating Defense .......over the 3 year span
well then there is your win . we have won 1 ...... next
Still stirring?
BroncoMan4ever
12-15-2008, 12:32 PM
i wonder if Goodman could help Shanahan with the picking of a new DC. he has really helped out with the draft, maybe he could help with coaching.
Too many factors affected that.
Injuries
Different players
Learning curve
Different position coaches
Not to get too far off topic, but judging a defensive coordinator after one season is kind of like judging a president after their first year in office. Waaaay too many factors out of one's control affect what you can do in that first year.
And like you alluded to in your post, it took Bates TWO years to turn it back around after that. What if they only gave Bates one year? He would've "failed" too.
And Slowik has been the DC in Denver for the better part of two years. Not only that but if you take over a top 10 defense, that should tell you the previous regime was doing something right. What does Slowik do? He puts his signature on it by disarming it of the ability to get turnovers and stopping the pass. He basically took a solid defense in GB and put a torch to it. It was the same then as what we're seeing now.
tsiguy96
12-15-2008, 05:40 PM
No name 1 dominating Defense .......over the 3 year span
the ravens? hadnt allowed 200 yards rushing in what was it, 11 years?
I agree but the question is with Pat Bowlen's stellar organization why can't we get a good one? It's been a ten year run!
Shanahan's not perfect. No coach is. There are things I dont like about him but Id still rather have him as our coach than some unknown. And part of that is knowing that theres a high degree of cronyism that features several coaches of questionable competence. I also dont like how Shanahan thinks he can just plug any RB in there. Its hubris. But Xs and Os-wise, theres no one better. I at least know Shanahan himself is competent. The defense doesnt need to be the equal of the offense but it needs to have a base level of competence. Slowik presents a problem in this regard. I recognize that its a challenge to bring in a well known DC but that doesnt mean there isnt some young guy who knows enough on scheming...or some college coach.
Basically, we're at the point where we'd be better off going with someone who might be bad rather than sticking with someone we know is bad.
BroncoBuff
12-15-2008, 05:52 PM
Greg Williams is looking for work....
THAT is a great idea. But the players love Slo, and it's hard to fault him anyway with our pitiful pass rush.
And not to defend Bates, but he really never had a chance ... couldn't get Big Money to play the scheme or Dan Wilkerson to sign with us, so we had to transition to his system with the worst DTs in the league.
Spider
12-15-2008, 06:05 PM
the ravens? hadnt allowed 200 yards rushing in what was it, 11 years?
Real dominating .......... Next argument
2007 5-11-0 4th -- AFC North --
2006 13-3-0 1st -- AFC North 0-1 -
2005 6-10-0 T3rd -- AFC North --
2004 9-7-0 2nd -- AFC North --
2003 10-6-0 1st -- AFC North 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs
2002 7-9-0 3rd -- AFC North --
2001 10-6-0 2nd -- AFC Central 1-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs
2000 12-4-0 2nd -- AFC Central ---4-0 - Won Superbowl
1999 8-8-0 3rd -- AFC Central --
1998 6-10-0 4th -- AFC Central --
1997 6-9-1 5th -- AFC Central --
1996 4-12-0 5th -- AFC Central
snowspot66
12-15-2008, 06:15 PM
THAT is a great idea. But the players love Slo, and it's hard to fault him anyway with our pitiful pass rush.
And not to defend Bates, but he really never had a chance ... couldn't get Big Money to play the scheme or Dan Wilkerson to sign with us, so we had to transition to his system with the worst DTs in the league.
Yes our pass rush sucks but it was horrible in 05 too. Some of the historical failures we are about to set with this defense are inexcusable. Our talent isn't that bad. Expansion teams have done better. Slowick can kiss the whitest part of my ass on his way out the door.
watermock
12-15-2008, 06:25 PM
I want Phillips too and give him free reign over the Defense.
Wade took over the boys D 2 weeks ago, immediate improvement.
Good DC, bad HC.
THAT is a great idea. But the players love Slo, and it's hard to fault him anyway with our pitiful pass rush.
And not to defend Bates, but he really never had a chance ... couldn't get Big Money to play the scheme or Dan Wilkerson to sign with us, so we had to transition to his system with the worst DTs in the league.
No, its not hard. His 10 yard cushions undermine the pass rush.
Anaximines
12-15-2008, 07:10 PM
Fire Greg Robinson out defense sucks
Fire Rhodes our defense sucks
Fire Coyer our defense sucks
Fire Bates our defense sucks
Fire Slowick our defense sucks.
See a pattern here ?
Any DC whose last name:
1. Starts with B or R, or
2. Starts with a letter that's alphabetically adjacent to B or R
sucks!!
elsid13
12-15-2008, 07:12 PM
Gee I really miss the days of Rhodes drop 10 and rush Ian Gold into the biggest olinemen the other team had.