View Full Version : 3 sacks in the last 5 games is a disgrace
eddie mac
12-14-2008, 04:53 PM
Someone's head's gotta role for this.
Be it Slowik or the idiot D-Line coaches we have.
I can't recall the last time we actually got any decent pressure on a QB, that's how bad it is.
Elvis Dumervil, double-teamed all of last year cant beat anyone in one on one match-ups this season. Both Robertson and Thomas are a total non-factor in the middle and dont start me on the fact our 2006 2nd rd pick cant even make the bloody 45 on a Sunday.
Total disgrace and something has to be done about it and now. Everything starts from the front and the lack of pressure is making average LB's and DB's look even worse.
If the line cant get anywhere near the QB then you might as well just not turn up for games.
The last time I checked the Broncos were on course for the 4th all time completion rate for QB's against us this season. That's a joke.
We all know our safeties are total horse**** but it's no excuse that in 60 mins of play every week that not one player can get near the QB nor can a coach come up with a formation/play to get a blitzer free.
I really ****ing hate this defense right now.
Bronx33
12-14-2008, 04:55 PM
That's the least of slowiks problems i really don't think the players beleive in him or his system and frankly i don't either ( the man is no motivator)
tsiguy96
12-14-2008, 05:01 PM
why should they believe in it if it clearly doesnt work?
Popps
12-14-2008, 05:02 PM
"3 sacks in 5 games? Is that bad?"
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/football/nfl/players/5064.jpg
Well, Champ likes Slowik. Thats all that matters.
CSU Husker
12-14-2008, 05:03 PM
That's the least of slowiks problems i really don't think the players beleive in him or his system and frankly i don't either ( the man is no motivator)
True, the game is over and our defensive staff still hasnt come to the conclusion that we should cover their best WR.
ludo21
12-14-2008, 05:05 PM
Talent is a major issue and coaching of course...
Im not worried tho, if we can hit on a couple picks and once we fire or demote Slowik the D will turn around.
Bronx33
12-14-2008, 05:08 PM
Talent is a major issue and coaching of course...
Im not worried tho, if we can hit on a couple picks and once we fire or demote Slowik the D will turn around.
I don't want slowik anywhere near this team in any capacity.
fontaine
12-14-2008, 05:14 PM
In no way am I defending Slow but it looks to me that the DL is selling out to stop the run and not worry about pass rush.
It's clear in who they line up. Engleberger/Ekuban get a lot of snaps and no coach in the league is going to get them to be pass rushers.
eddie mac
12-14-2008, 05:16 PM
"3 sacks in 5 games? Is that bad?"
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/football/nfl/players/5064.jpg
This weather I dunno if you're taking the piss or being serious. That works out at 10 sacks a season. So yes it's ****ing downright awful.
DenverBrit
12-14-2008, 05:36 PM
Someone's head's gotta role for this.
Be it Slowik or the idiot D-Line coaches we have.
I can't recall the last time we actually got any decent pressure on a QB, that's how bad it is.
Elvis Dumervil, double-teamed all of last year cant beat anyone in one on one match-ups this season. Both Robertson and Thomas are a total non-factor in the middle and dont start me on the fact our 2006 2nd rd pick cant even make the bloody 45 on a Sunday.
Total disgrace and something has to be done about it and now. Everything starts from the front and the lack of pressure is making average LB's and DB's look even worse.
If the line cant get anywhere near the QB then you might as well just not turn up for games.
The last time I checked the Broncos were on course for the 4th all time completion rate for QB's against us this season. That's a joke.
We all know our safeties are total horse**** but it's no excuse that in 60 mins of play every week that not one player can get near the QB nor can a coach come up with a formation/play to get a blitzer free.
I really ****ing hate this defense right now.
Have you just noticed the lack of talent on the line? It's been this way for a few years now.
So what do you think must be done to fix the problem......other than find talent, which obviously won't happen this year?
orinjkrush
12-14-2008, 05:40 PM
hopefully we come up with another amazing draft class.
FS, DL, MB, RB, DL, SS, DL, SB
Popps
12-14-2008, 05:47 PM
This weather I dunno if you're taking the piss or being serious. That works out at 10 sacks a season. So yes it's ****ing downright awful.
Sweet Christ, of course I'm joking. Did everyone here take a handfull of idiot pills today? My god. The goofy pix of Engelberger wasn't a tell?
Above all else, we lack any sort of consistent playmaking ability. I think we have some good parts but we are lacking a dynamic presence on defense.
Br0nc0Buster
12-14-2008, 06:02 PM
"3 sacks in 5 games? Is that bad?"
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/football/nfl/players/5064.jpg
LOL
Engleberger loves this kind of defense.
"Pass rush, what is pass rush?"
Popps
12-14-2008, 06:49 PM
LOL
Engleberger loves this kind of defense.
"Pass rush, what is pass rush?"
Well, to be fair... Engleberger has 3 sacks himself.
It just happens to be over a period of three years.
Br0nc0Buster
12-14-2008, 06:54 PM
Well, to be fair... Engleberger has 3 sacks himself.
It just happens to be over a period of three years.
well I recall one of his "sacks" was Philip Rivers basically running into him a yard behind the line of scrimmage.
But yeah his sack a year average isnt too bad for this defense I guess, Jarvis is jealous of that kind of production.
snowspot66
12-14-2008, 07:01 PM
The day Engleburger is cut we better have somebody on standby to check in on Popps. He might keel over from shear joy. I might too for that matter.
footstepsfrom#27
12-15-2008, 02:15 AM
Relax it's almost time to play spin the wheel for the next loser to play sock puppet DC to the Mastermind. The good news is we've probably seen the worst there is.
snowspot66
12-15-2008, 07:02 AM
He'll probably keep the ****er because everybody wants "continuity".
Kaylore
12-15-2008, 07:06 AM
I think its funny that Popps keeps singling out Engleberger when there are four or five players playing worse than him and we have coordinator who has a track record for fewest sacks created, fewest turnovers in a season (we're right on schedule there) and giving up huge pass plays. This is a Slowik defense to a T and cutting Engleberger wouldn't change the production at all. In fact it would just make our rush defense worse than it is.
Garcia Bronco
12-15-2008, 07:57 AM
John Engelberger is not in there to rush the passer. He's there to stop the run. In the one game he didn't play this year we got utterly destroyed in the run game.
Tombstone RJ
12-15-2008, 07:58 AM
Someone's head's gotta role for this.
Be it Slowik or the idiot D-Line coaches we have.
I can't recall the last time we actually got any decent pressure on a QB, that's how bad it is.
Elvis Dumervil, double-teamed all of last year cant beat anyone in one on one match-ups this season. Both Robertson and Thomas are a total non-factor in the middle and dont start me on the fact our 2006 2nd rd pick cant even make the bloody 45 on a Sunday.
Total disgrace and something has to be done about it and now. Everything starts from the front and the lack of pressure is making average LB's and DB's look even worse.
If the line cant get anywhere near the QB then you might as well just not turn up for games.
The last time I checked the Broncos were on course for the 4th all time completion rate for QB's against us this season. That's a joke.
We all know our safeties are total horse**** but it's no excuse that in 60 mins of play every week that not one player can get near the QB nor can a coach come up with a formation/play to get a blitzer free.
I really ****ing hate this defense right now.
and yet, the team is 2-1 in the last three games. go figure.
I think we have some players on defense that can be part of a great defense. We are just missing any sort of a playmaker in the front 7 or secondary right now. Get a couple impact guys and this unit could look a lot different.
rastaman
12-15-2008, 08:11 AM
hopefully we come up with another amazing draft class.
FS, DL, MB, RB, DL, SS, DL, SB
Denver has 9 or 10 picks in the 2009 draft, and can go the FA route to address the needs, so we will see.
eddie mac
12-15-2008, 08:12 AM
and yet, the team is 2-1 in the last three games. go figure.
Who'd they get spanked by in the game before that???
rastaman
12-15-2008, 08:16 AM
and yet, the team is 2-1 in the last three games. go figure.
This team could go 4-1 or 2-3 over the last 5 games. Who knows which team will show up.
Popps
12-15-2008, 08:18 AM
I think its funny that Popps keeps singling out Engleberger when there are four or five players playing worse than him .
Really? Name a defensive line starter who's held his job for as long as Engleberger who's as bad as him.... IN THE LEAGUE. Name him. Find me a guy as useless as Engleberger with the title "Starting Defensive End" ... ANYWHERE. Find me a guy with 3 sacks in 5 years that a coach didn't send to the practice squad, much less make a starter.
we have coordinator who has a track record for fewest sacks created, fewest turnovers in a season
That's nice. Engleberger sucked under our last DC, too. I guess that wasn't his fault, either?
This is a Slowik defense to a T .
I was among, if not the first to speak out against hiring Slowik. Again, that doesn't mean that we also don't have a talent problem. We obviously do.
I think its funny that Popps
I did like this part, though. It's like, you couldn't quote me directly you were so disgusted. You had to talk about me in the third person. :spit:
did the Broncos blitz at all against Carolina? i don't recall seeing any, but to be fair, i walked away from the TV in disgust before halftime when it was clear that the Broncos were going to lose... badly.
rugbythug
12-15-2008, 09:46 AM
I am not sure what people want. We held a Good run team in check. And got owned by a top 5 Receiver (Steve Smith is one of the Best Players in the NFL let alone receivers). Our Big money big play CB was a cheer Leader. Lets say Steve Smith does n't Play Do you think we don't hold those guys under 17 points? People around here want us to go from Crap to the Ravens in a year. Pieces are coming around but it won't happen in a week. Yeah our D tackles are not getting constant Pressure. But they are also not getting gashed by the run. Be happy about that. We have the worst Safety's in the History of Modern Football. We have started Street FA over and over again. Starting them then cutting them. We can't win until we have quality players at all positions, and at least one All Pro in the Front 7. We fix the safteys and a lot of other things get much better. We can blitz with out giving a check down 20 yards. IMO Barrett was looking better and better. He whiffed on a open field tackle but also put a big hit on a reciever to knock a ball loose. I wish he was a better runner - Reed, Palumalu would have taken that pick back.
We need to remember how far back Last Years D Cordinator set us. His trading of Gerard Warren Was a big time mistake. His hand Picking of Moss another.
PRBronco
12-15-2008, 09:51 AM
did the Broncos blitz at all against Carolina? i don't recall seeing any, but to be fair, i walked away from the TV in disgust before halftime when it was clear that the Broncos were going to lose... badly.
I doubt it, I've never seen such a passive gameplan on offense and defense, gawd it was painful.
Old Dude
12-15-2008, 09:51 AM
Our pass rush sucks. (Tied for 26th)
Our pass protection is great (11 sacks surrendered, tied for 2d best in the NFL.)
Could be partially due to the scheme. But it's probably more just the fact that we have a lot more talent on offense than on defense.
That would be due to a combination of injuries, drafting, f/a evaluation and teaching.
/signed/ Captain Obvious
The team is young and ravaged by injuries, add a schizo D coordinator that isnt smart enough to realize that he cant always scheme success and this is what we have. Plse pick 2 schemes and let these young players learn to do them well before u move on, they have to learn to crawl before they can run.
People - for the love of God please realize something. Great defenses are built around great DL players. If you don't understand this you must be on the short bus or something. Quit saying we need to draft a safety first, and then address the DL. Quit saying we need to draft a MLB middle rounds. Quit saying we even need to THINK about drafting a RB.
It's so frickin simple - we need studs on the DL. Our biggest need is a DE. If you took the best DE in the league and put him on our team, you would see a difference. More so then taking the best Safety in the league and putting him on our team. With all day to throw, even average QB's ravage this defense. I don't care if Ed Reed was back there. With no pressure, he wouldn't be a ton of help. I'm not doubting Ed Reed is a fantastic player but did you ever once stop to think about some of the things that help him to be the best Safety? Yeah, duh, that's right. He's got a sick pass rush in front of him. You take Ed Reed and put him on this team, he's no longer the best safety in the league.
So next time you start over thinking this and say to yourself we need to take a safety first, get a clue. Realize EVERYTHING starts with the DL.
If we don't package picks to move up to snag one of the best DE's, or trade for one, we sure as hell better use our first 2 picks on them. Then take safeties 3rd and 4th. The rest of the picks, use them to move up in rounds with the first 4. That is what needs to happen. No RB's need to be drafted. If you think that you are an idiot.
Kaylore
12-15-2008, 10:27 AM
Really? Name a defensive line starter who's held his job for as long as Engleberger who's as bad as him.... IN THE LEAGUE. Name him. Find me a guy as useless as Engleberger with the title "Starting Defensive End" ... ANYWHERE. Find me a guy with 3 sacks in 5 years that a coach didn't send to the practice squad, much less make a starter.
It's fascinating to me how you think the biggest problem with our defense is John Engleberger. It's like we're all on a boat that's sinking. The motors gone and there are holes in the bow and you're screaming about the sink having a leak. It's like "gee thanks, Popps. We'll get right on that once we take care of the stuff that actually matters."
There are a lot of problems with our defense. Engleberger is one of the few people out there who can do something right (stop the run) fairly consistently. Even if our D-line had normal starters he'd still be back up on this team whereas we have people starting for us who should be on the streets. Why you keep singling him out is beyond me. Marcus Thomas gave up that big run. our linebackers and safeties have been the ones with issues this year. Somehow you keep harping on Engleberger like he's the worst player and he's not even the biggest problem. It's like he slept with your wife and you're the Count of Monte Cristo.
rugbythug
12-15-2008, 10:31 AM
People - for the love of God please realize something. Great defenses are built around great DL players. If you don't understand this you must be on the short bus or something. Quit saying we need to draft a safety first, and then address the DL. Quit saying we need to draft a MLB middle rounds. Quit saying we even need to THINK about drafting a RB.
It's so frickin simple - we need studs on the DL. Our biggest need is a DE. If you took the best DE in the league and put him on our team, you would see a difference. More so then taking the best Safety in the league and putting him on our team. With all day to throw, even average QB's ravage this defense. I don't care if Ed Reed was back there. With no pressure, he wouldn't be a ton of help. I'm not doubting Ed Reed is a fantastic player but did you ever once stop to think about some of the things that help him to be the best Safety? Yeah, duh, that's right. He's got a sick pass rush in front of him. You take Ed Reed and put him on this team, he's no longer the best safety in the league.
So next time you start over thinking this and say to yourself we need to take a safety first, get a clue. Realize EVERYTHING starts with the DL.
If we don't package picks to move up to snag one of the best DE's, or trade for one, we sure as hell better use our first 2 picks on them. Then take safeties 3rd and 4th. The rest of the picks, use them to move up in rounds with the first 4. That is what needs to happen. No RB's need to be drafted. If you think that you are an idiot.
When we pick at 25 the odds of us getting a Game changing DE are much lower than getting a game Competent Saftey.
Cito Pelon
12-15-2008, 10:46 AM
I said the team this year would not give up 409 pts again. They may get below that, they're at 366 now. They're not gonna beat last years 33 sacks, they're at 23 now. I really thought there would be some improvement, but they're as bad or worse in most categories.
Even rushing finished the year at 4.6ypc/143ypg in 2007, 4.9ypc/140ypg this year so far.
Passing D 3266 total yds/17td passes/6int so far in 2008, 3094 total yds/25td passes/14 int's for the year in 2007.
Obviously the staff & front office have to get some improvement from year to year.
Br0nc0Buster
12-15-2008, 10:48 AM
I dont understand why they dont just put Kenny Peterson at LE if all they care is stopping the run.
Engleberger is a joke, he has NO pass rush.
Seriously lets just put DTs out there if we dont care about rushing the passer, because that doesnt seem to be a high priority with this defense.
PRBronco
12-15-2008, 10:51 AM
I dont understand why they dont just put Kenny Peterson at LE if all they care is stopping the run.
Engleberger is a joke, he has NO pass rush.
Seriously lets just put DTs out there if we dont care about rushing the passer, because that doesnt seem to be a high priority with this defense.
Yeah I've said this before too, Clemons and Peterson are both defensive ends that we play at tackle for some reason (their pass rushing prowess?) Not knocking them too much, they haven't been any worse than anyone else, but hell, they're big boys, the linebackers might actually be able to make a play with ends like that. We don't rush the passer anyways.
Florida_Bronco
12-15-2008, 11:01 AM
I know Mediator was very unhappy with Jacob Burney, and I'm really starting to think that is a big issue with this team.
Lets look at Engleberger. Guy was a 2nd round pick in 2000 and started 4 years for the 49ers (he didn't start any games or get any sacks in 2002, not sure what the deal was there) and in those 4 years his sack totals were 3, 4, 4.5 and 6. Certainly not bad.
We picked him up in 2005, and although he was mostly on the bench because Ekuban and Brown were starting, he looked really good in the preseason. Does anyone remember the game against the Colts in the 05 preseason when John was playing like a man possessed?
Now are we really supposed to believe that Engleberger got here and just all of the sudden forgot how to play? This guy was a 2nd round pick and decent starter in San Fran, it's not like he is some practice squad stiff.
Since Burney has been here in 2002, what D-line players have we developed? How many veterans have been brought here just to see their play decline?
The fact of the matter is that, while we may be lacking in talent, the talent we do have is not developing or living up to it's potential, and I think that is a coaching problem.
PRBronco
12-15-2008, 11:12 AM
I know Mediator was very unhappy with Jacob Burney, and I'm really starting to think that is a big issue with this team.
Lets look at Engleberger. Guy was a 2nd round pick in 2000 and started 4 years for the 49ers (he didn't start any games or get any sacks in 2002, not sure what the deal was there) and in those 4 years his sack totals were 3, 4, 4.5 and 6. Certainly not bad.
We picked him up in 2005, and although he was mostly on the bench because Ekuban and Brown were starting, he looked really good in the preseason. Does anyone remember the game against the Colts in the 05 preseason when John was playing like a man possessed?
Now are we really supposed to believe that Engleberger got here and just all of the sudden forgot how to play? This guy was a 2nd round pick and decent starter in San Fran, it's not like he is some practice squad stiff.
Since Burney has been here in 2002, what D-line players have we developed? How many veterans have been brought here just to see their play decline?
The fact of the matter is that, while we may be lacking in talent, the talent we do have is not developing or living up to it's potential, and I think that is a coaching problem.
That was the first year they switched to a 3-4 and they couldn't find a role for him in it, that's why he was on the trade block.
Good post btw.
cutthemdown
12-15-2008, 11:14 AM
because of the lack of talent on defense this is exactly what I expected this year. It's not coaching when year after yr no matter what coach we have the defense stinks. The problem is our players on defense stink.
Florida_Bronco
12-15-2008, 11:41 AM
because of the lack of talent on defense this is exactly what I expected this year. It's not coaching when year after yr no matter what coach we have the defense stinks. The problem is our players on defense stink.
We've had the same D-line coach since 2002.
Florida_Bronco
12-15-2008, 11:41 AM
That was the first year they switched to a 3-4 and they couldn't find a role for him in it, that's why he was on the trade block.
Good post btw.
Ahhh thanks for the info buddy. I was wondering what the deal was with that year. :thumbsup:
Tombstone RJ
12-15-2008, 12:02 PM
I know Mediator was very unhappy with Jacob Burney, and I'm really starting to think that is a big issue with this team.
Lets look at Engleberger. Guy was a 2nd round pick in 2000 and started 4 years for the 49ers (he didn't start any games or get any sacks in 2002, not sure what the deal was there) and in those 4 years his sack totals were 3, 4, 4.5 and 6. Certainly not bad.
We picked him up in 2005, and although he was mostly on the bench because Ekuban and Brown were starting, he looked really good in the preseason. Does anyone remember the game against the Colts in the 05 preseason when John was playing like a man possessed?
Now are we really supposed to believe that Engleberger got here and just all of the sudden forgot how to play? This guy was a 2nd round pick and decent starter in San Fran, it's not like he is some practice squad stiff.
Since Burney has been here in 2002, what D-line players have we developed? How many veterans have been brought here just to see their play decline?
The fact of the matter is that, while we may be lacking in talent, the talent we do have is not developing or living up to it's potential, and I think that is a coaching problem.
OMG!
It's the players!
No, its the coaches!
No, its the scheme!
No, its the.... fuggin shanahan...:sunshine:
TheChamp24
12-15-2008, 01:45 PM
Broncos defensive scheme is horrible.
Notice how the Panthers did crazy stuff to confuse our offense, like, ZONE BLITZES?!?!?!
ZOMG OTHER TEAMS BLITZ!??!!?!?
snowspot66
12-15-2008, 05:39 PM
It's fascinating to me how you think the biggest problem with our defense is John Engleberger. It's like we're all on a boat that's sinking. The motors gone and there are holes in the bow and you're screaming about the sink having a leak. It's like "gee thanks, Popps. We'll get right on that once we take care of the stuff that actually matters."
There are a lot of problems with our defense. Engleberger is one of the few people out there who can do something right (stop the run) fairly consistently. Even if our D-line had normal starters he'd still be back up on this team whereas we have people starting for us who should be on the streets. Why you keep singling him out is beyond me. Marcus Thomas gave up that big run. our linebackers and safeties have been the ones with issues this year. Somehow you keep harping on Engleberger like he's the worst player and he's not even the biggest problem. It's like he slept with your wife and you're the Count of Monte Cristo.
Popps doesn't hate Engleberger. Popps hates what Engleberger represents. Engleberger is a symptom of a greater disease. A no talent scrub bringing down our defense and a DC too stupid to try something different. Why not play Crowder? Why not play Moss? Too worried we'll suck? Engleberger is the equivilent of a 0-15 team going for a field goal on fourth down. I too will jump for joy when I can say Engleberger no longer plays for the Denver Broncos.
Engleberger IS the biggest problem on this team. He brings nothing to the table and neither do any of the other players of his caliber we have playing for our team. He and other players like him are a lead anchor around our defense. Young and Bell are the same thing to our offense. Scrubs that do one thing and get by. But that isn't good enough. If we want a real defense we need to ditch Engleberger and go with somebody who has a little upside. Barret, Larsen, and Woodyard can handle safety/linebacker long enough to get the Dline in order. If we want a real offense we need to ditch the dimestore RB's and get ourselves a real RB to back up Hillis in case he gets dinged.
It's time we re-evaluate what is a need and what is a luxury on this team. We've got a fancy new car with nice rims and only enough horsepower to get it out of the driveway.
BroncoBuff
12-15-2008, 05:44 PM
The last time I checked the Broncos were on course for the 4th all time completion rate for QB's against us this season. That's a joke.
Really? That is a joke ... we cannot possibly evaluate our CBs on merit when this D-Line is what they're working behind.
We've drafted as well or better than any team in the league these last three years ... but Moss and Crowder are the exceptions that really hurt.
snowspot66
12-15-2008, 06:10 PM
I think Moss will eventually be a decent player but I don't think we should hold our breath on him becoming the world beater we really need on this line. A solid rotational guy or somebody who can do pretty well when teamed up with a stud. It's time to bring in more talent.