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spdirty
12-05-2008, 12:26 AM
Thats what Sandy Clough (from the Fan) and Gary Miller (channel 4) say. I hope so, but dont think I have seen enough yet.

I personally want to see him be Howard Griffith II starting next year.

Lets see here...you have Hillis vs. Henry, Young, Griffin, Bell, Pittman, Hall, so those are pretty easy, but then get into Mike Anderson and Reuben Droughns. Don't know about that.

BroncoDoug
12-05-2008, 12:32 AM
They also said he was better then Jim Brown and were sizing him up for his bust in Canton, I don't think at this point he is better then Mike Anderson. In the future, maybe, but not right now.

epicSocialism4tw
12-05-2008, 12:39 AM
He is not a RB. We dont want him to be the Broncos RB. We want him to be able to do his thing as a FB, and for a regular back to take his spot.

We need to be able to have flexibility at RB and to have Hillis in there as a pass option fullback or to have him take inside handoffs or to have him pass block.

Jerry Curl
12-05-2008, 12:40 AM
No. Not yet, let the guy play and perform in some more games before you crown him.

BroncoDoug
12-05-2008, 12:42 AM
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/lbrownie/dennis-green-crown.jpg

Wait, are we crowning someone?!?!

BroncoMan4ever
12-05-2008, 01:00 AM
he has the most complete package and is the most versatile of all the backs we have had since Portis, but he isn't the best RB we have had(Mike Anderson)

he has better hands out of the backfield than all the others, more power and strength, but he doesn't have the speed, not quick enough to run the stretch plays our running game lives on. he is a great weapon for screen passes, short FB Dive plays, openning up holes for our other RB's. i like him a lot, but as a FB/H Back and not our starting RB for more than the remainder of this season.

Jerry Curl
12-05-2008, 01:09 AM
I was hoping someone would notice the crowning.

watermock
12-05-2008, 01:28 AM
He ran the pitch for 9 yards. He's the only back since TD that can run thru tackles.

kappys
12-05-2008, 01:32 AM
He's got plenty of talent no doubt. The rest of this year is his audition. To me he's shown enough skill to be a true RB. That said he might be a very mediocre one - too early to tell.

watermock
12-05-2008, 01:35 AM
We'll get a couple backs in the draft, but he's gonna be our horse the rest of the year.

Spider
12-05-2008, 01:35 AM
no to mention he stays healthy ........ He could be another John Riggins .....

broncocalijohn
12-05-2008, 01:44 AM
We have some young players now that hasnt been able to showcase their talent. Mike anderson by far. Droughns was pretty good here and even Olandis Gary had a 1000 yard season but big deal in this system. I dont think he is a true HB and if Young gets healthy with a bonafide fullback to help out, Young can finally get that easy 2k yards he promised :)

lostknight
12-05-2008, 01:57 AM
He has the potential... plus he might be able to do something more - line up at TE, or at WR in addition.

Popps
12-05-2008, 02:02 AM
He is not a RB. We dont want him to be the Broncos RB. We want him to be able to do his thing as a FB, and for a regular back to take his spot.

We need to be able to have flexibility at RB and to have Hillis in there as a pass option fullback or to have him take inside handoffs or to have him pass block.

Umm, no.

He's "not a RB?" What team are you watching?

We do not need to create cute situations for Hillis. We do not need him to be "flexible." When you say he needs to "do his thing," he is. He's running the **** over people and doing it more effectively than any back we've plugged in there since Mike Anderson.

Do we need someone to share carries? Sure, his running style is such that he may wear down. Do we need to move him to fullback and play cute games with him? **** no. This guy gains yards after contact. He's deceptively fast, has above average vision, can make the cutback and has an excellent ypc average.

Yes, he's also a good athlete and has great hands. So, yes... he can run routes, catch passes, whatever. But, I'm bloody-sick of people making this fantasy-land argument that he needs to be made into some sort of novelty-back or decoy so we can plug in some sub-par back like Selvin Young.

I mean, are people just not paying attention? He's averaging 5 yards per carry. Until that changes, let's kill the talk of how we need to line him up at wide receiver or have him returning kicks, or directing traffic into the stadium on Sundays. This guy makes the offense work when he's lined up at RB. Leave it alone.

BroncoDoug
12-05-2008, 02:06 AM
Umm, no.

He's "not a RB?" What team are you watching?

We do not need to create cute situations for Hillis. We do not need him to be "flexible." When you say he needs to "do his thing," he is. He's running the **** over people and doing it more effectively than any back we've plugged in there since Mike Anderson.

Do we need someone to share carries? Sure, his running style is such that he may wear down. Do we need to move him to fullback and play cute games with him? **** no. This guy gains yards after contact. He's deceptively fast, has above average vision, can make the cutback and has an excellent ypc average.

Yes, he's also a good athlete and has great hands. So, yes... he can run routes, catch passes, whatever. But, I'm bloody-sick of people making this fantasy-land argument that he needs to be made into some sort of novelty-back or decoy so we can plug in some sub-par back like Selvin Young.

I mean, are people just not paying attention? He's averaging 5 yards per carry. Until that changes, let's kill the talk of how we need to line him up at wide receiver or have him returning kicks, or directing traffic into the stadium on Sundays. This guy makes the offense work when he's lined up at RB. Leave it alone.

Yeah, but I bet if he did that, he would run over fools too, and do it the best we've seen since Portis for sure.

Jason in LA
12-05-2008, 02:12 AM
I like what Hillis is doing, but this has got to stop. It's getting kind of crazy.

Is he better than Anderson or Droughns? Not at this point. Those guys were running through tacklers, just like Hillis. Hillis is similar to those two, but he's going to need a lot more time before he can surpass either of them. I don't think he will. A pure tailback will come in from somewhere and Hillis will go back to FB, where he belongs. Then we'll get a boat load of threads saying that he should be the tailback.

Popps
12-05-2008, 02:26 AM
I like what Hillis is doing, but this has got to stop. It's getting kind of crazy.

Is he better than Anderson or Droughns? Not at this point. Those guys were running through tacklers, just like Hillis. Hillis is similar to those two, but he's going to need a lot more time before he can surpass either of them. I don't think he will. A pure tailback will come in from somewhere and Hillis will go back to FB, where he belongs. Then we'll get a boat load of threads saying that he should be the tailback.

I agree with that. Droughns may have been the most underrated back we've had in here in the last decade. I was shocked that we got rid of him. I know Shanahan likes the home-run hitters, but Droughns was really effective for us.

But, as far as Hillis "belonging" at FB... he belongs carrying the ball. I don't care what you want to call him. Right now, he needs 20 carries a game, minimum and if we get a highly talented back to split carries (which we don't have now) .... then cut his carries, somewhat.

But, this kid is not a traditional fullback. He's not a dumpy short-yardage podder and he's not a pure blocking FB. He's an athlete who needs to be seeing 15-20 touches per game, and until it's proven differently (i.e. that 5 yards per carry average drops) ... then I want him carrying the ball.

Call him whatever you want.

Popps
12-05-2008, 02:29 AM
Our offense runs much more effectively when we have a guy who can gain 4-5 yards on first down consistently. That's been the case since TD was here. Mike Anderson was great for that, Droughns... and now Hillis appears to be a chain-mover.

Atwater His Ass
12-05-2008, 02:42 AM
He ran the pitch for 9 yards. He's the only back since TD that can run thru tackles.

Did you see Portis or Anderson or Gary or Droughns play?

elsid13
12-05-2008, 03:51 AM
I like what Hillis is doing, but this has got to stop. It's getting kind of crazy.

Is he better than Anderson or Droughns? Not at this point. Those guys were running through tacklers, just like Hillis. Hillis is similar to those two, but he's going to need a lot more time before he can surpass either of them. I don't think he will. A pure tailback will come in from somewhere and Hillis will go back to FB, where he belongs. Then we'll get a boat load of threads saying that he should be the tailback.

You right, this place is bipolar. I know he had good game against the Jets, but they missed a lot of tackles and allowed him to scoot forward for some longer runs.

Rock Chalk
12-05-2008, 06:02 AM
Im glad Im not the only one that liked Reuben. I still dont get why we got rid of the dude. He was a bruising back that held on to the football for us and was also a great special teamer.

I like Hillis at RB. Once he gets better at blitz pickup I think we should stick with him there.

Im not a fan of Torain. I liked what I saw out of him until he got injured and now my mind is made up that he will never stay healthy for long in the NFL and should not be counted on to do so. I like Selvin as an option but not a full time guy. I dont like Andre Hall anymore. I still wanna see what Alridge has next year, that guy was electric even if it was pre-season. He showed some things that I would like to see in real games next year if given the chance but Im down for keeping Hillis as our primary RB ala Brandon Jacobs.

I know everyone here wants the Griffith FB but Im not sold that Hillis is that guy. He's decent at blocking but he is by no means a true FB in teh Griffith mold. He is a weapon though and needs to be on the field. With the spread formation, the threat of Hillis Royal Marshall Sheffler Stokely and Graham Denver really does not NEED a FB.

So what that Hillis is white. He's faster than people think and moves piles FORWARD. We do not need a RB to be a homerun hitter. We need the RB to put us in good situations and get tough yardage. The passing game is now where our home runs come from and with an RB like Hillis we can FORCE defenses to pick their poison. Churn out tough yards down the field, get defenses tired throughout the game and burn them late with big plays in the passing game? Whats the problem folks?

Broncoman13
12-05-2008, 06:21 AM
I like Hillis at HB. You need 4 yards, he'll give you 4 yards! You need 10 yards, he'll give you 4 yards!

Seriously, he is very consistent and has been outstanding on 1st downs and 3rd and shorts. He's Michael Pittman with more power, hands, and as Rock ChOKE mentioned, he's white (as if that means something??? Ha!). So keep giving him the ball.

The Giants once upon a time had Thunder and Lightning with Dayne and Tiki.
The Titans now have Slash and Bash or whatever they're calling Lendale and Chris Johnson.

We currently have an awesome duo too. Peyton Hillis and Tatum Bell. This will soon be known to all as RUMBLE and FUMBLE!

Dedhed
12-05-2008, 06:37 AM
I think after 1 good game its a little early to get a chubby over Hillis as a feature back.

Don Flamenco
12-05-2008, 06:39 AM
So far He looks like Rueben Droughns with less speed and less ability to fumble the ball...

Don Flamenco
12-05-2008, 06:42 AM
I know everyone here wants the Griffith FB but Im not sold that Hillis is that guy. He's decent at blocking but he is by no means a true FB in teh Griffith mold. He is a weapon though and needs to be on the field. With the spread formation, the threat of Hillis Royal Marshall Sheffler Stokely and Graham Denver really does not NEED a FB.



Wasn't Griffith a FB coming out of college though?

Tombstone RJ
12-05-2008, 06:44 AM
Thats what Sandy Clough (from the Fan) and Gary Miller (channel 4) say. I hope so, but dont think I have seen enough yet.

I personally want to see him be Howard Griffith II starting next year.

Lets see here...you have Hillis vs. Henry, Young, Griffin, Bell, Pittman, Hall, so those are pretty easy, but then get into Mike Anderson and Reuben Droughns. Don't know about that.

No, he's servicable at RB. Peeps here want to thank the oline for all the RBs being so good, well, heres a good case of a decent RB putting up solid numbers.

But, give me Portis in his rookie year in this offense and it's scary good.

peacepipe
12-05-2008, 07:08 AM
Thats what Sandy Clough (from the Fan) and Gary Miller (channel 4) say. I hope so, but dont think I have seen enough yet.

I personally want to see him be Howard Griffith II starting next year.

Lets see here...you have Hillis vs. Henry, Young, Griffin, Bell, Pittman, Hall, so those are pretty easy, but then get into Mike Anderson and Reuben Droughns. Don't know about that.NO! Hillis isn't that good.

TheReverend
12-05-2008, 07:47 AM
No, he's servicable at RB. Peeps here want to thank the oline for all the RBs being so good, well, heres a good case of a decent RB putting up solid numbers.

But, give me Portis in his rookie year in this offense and it's scary good.

Portis in any year, really.

Hillis can do the job very well though. I'll be really pissed if we take a RB early with great MLBs and Ss on the board.

cmhargrove
12-05-2008, 07:59 AM
Popps is 100% right on.

It pisses me off as a coach when people look at a player and tell you what he should be like - "that kid is the fastest, he needs to be the WR/RB." While conventional wisdom will send you down the right path, you have to watch who the "gamers" are. Those guys who practice ok, but always step up to the competition. They find holes, break tackles, make assignments, and find the end zone.

I loved Reuben also, but his best year for the Broncos, he had 6 TD's and 5 fumbles. Peyton (in very limited duty) has five TD's and no fumbles. He extends drives, breaks tackles, and gives Cutler more chances to win the game. Why can't people around here see that?

I would be very happy taking a fast RB in next year's draft to compliment Hillis, but I think the job should be his forever if he continues to play like this. Hillis scores TD's and wins games. Those are facts. You guys need to stop knocking him for perceived deficiencies and look at what he is doing.

Finally, the crap about the stretch play needs to just die. Everyone knows the stretch play, everyone can defend it now. Hillis runs up the gut and keeps extra defenders near the middle of the field. Please watch how our offense is being transformed into something better. Hillis is fine at making the cutback, and he's not afraid of straight up contact - best of both worlds.

vancejohnson82
12-05-2008, 08:17 AM
i like how he gives us the 2nd and 6 type setup instead of the 2nd and 12 or 2nd and 10 setups we were getting with our smaller backs.....

we have Torain coming back next year to split carries with Hillis with Young as a change of pace back...

NO RUNNING BACK EARLY IN THE DRAFT NEXT YEAR...work on the defense

Archer81
12-05-2008, 08:17 AM
More runners you have the better off. Hillis can play, if we are assembling a RBBC then you could do worse than have a 250lb fullback as a starting piece.


:Broncos:

Paladin
12-05-2008, 08:30 AM
Whatever Hillis does is going to depend upon how Shanahan "evolves" his O. If Hillis could be the H-back and split out as well as run, then I'd think we'd see more of a true two-back offense that features two backs with a lot of motion, splits, dives and some "traditional" Broncos runs. Greater flexibility of the backs, the greater variety of plays and plans Shanahan can develop. Opposing DCs wouldn't be able to plan as well because of the variety of schemes the Broncos could bring to the game week-by-week.

I hope Hillis stays on course and continues to do well. But he is really just now beginning to show what he can do.

lostknight
12-05-2008, 08:32 AM
I will say this. Hillis is awesome at running back. He carries with authority, always manages to get that last little bit for the team, doesn't showboat, doesn't get injured and has a great YPC.

That being said, he has the potential to rewrite the rules of being a fullback. Especially if Mike decides to use him as a hybrid rb/fb/te.

For this season, he is our rb. Sorry Selvin. Others can give it a try in the offseason/camp next year.

Archer81
12-05-2008, 08:37 AM
Torain/Hillis combo is a nice 1-2 punch if Torain comes back healthy and can stay that way. Throw in Hall and Young and a draft pick next year and the running game should round back into shape, but this season you could do worse than a Cutler-Larsen-Hillis backfield.


:Broncos:

epicSocialism4tw
12-05-2008, 09:08 AM
We currently have an awesome duo too. Peyton Hillis and Tatum Bell. This will soon be known to all as RUMBLE and FUMBLE!


Or we could call them Fumble and Fumble.

Rohirrim
12-05-2008, 09:10 AM
Put down the cough syrup and step away from the table. :oyvey:

epicSocialism4tw
12-05-2008, 09:12 AM
Popps is 100% right on.

It pisses me off as a coach when people look at a player and tell you what he should be like - "that kid is the fastest, he needs to be the WR/RB." While conventional wisdom will send you down the right path, you have to watch who the "gamers" are. Those guys who practice ok, but always step up to the competition. They find holes, break tackles, make assignments, and find the end zone.

I loved Reuben also, but his best year for the Broncos, he had 6 TD's and 5 fumbles. Peyton (in very limited duty) has five TD's and no fumbles. He extends drives, breaks tackles, and gives Cutler more chances to win the game. Why can't people around here see that?

I would be very happy taking a fast RB in next year's draft to compliment Hillis, but I think the job should be his forever if he continues to play like this. Hillis scores TD's and wins games. Those are facts. You guys need to stop knocking him for perceived deficiencies and look at what he is doing.

Finally, the crap about the stretch play needs to just die. Everyone knows the stretch play, everyone can defend it now. Hillis runs up the gut and keeps extra defenders near the middle of the field. Please watch how our offense is being transformed into something better. Hillis is fine at making the cutback, and he's not afraid of straight up contact - best of both worlds.


Hillis is a straight ahead bruiser. There's not much lateral agility there.

He is what he is. He is not a threat to break the big one. He's a short yardage back behind what is the Broncos' best offensive line since the mini-dynasty.

I would rather see a legit back with both size and speed, but you work with what you have and right now, the Broncos have Hillis.

epicSocialism4tw
12-05-2008, 09:12 AM
Its funny how this board goes nuts over white dudes.

outdoor_miner
12-05-2008, 09:14 AM
Count me as a Hillis believer at RB. I don't understand this sentiment that Hillis is some sort of one-game wonder, either (the Jets game). To me, he looked great carrying several defenders on 4th down in Cleveland, and hasn't looked back since. He was awesome in Atlanta, and didn't get the ball enough in Oakland (but still had a good game). And what's with the implication that the Jets missed a bunch of tackles or something? Hillis made them miss... I guess Atlanta and Oakland "missed" a bunch of tackles, too. He's been running people over the last 4 games.

A feature back doesn't have to be a home run hitter... I think Brandon Jacobs is the perfect example of a best-case scenario for Peyton. The Giants have a dominant running game with Jacobs running people over, and the other backs stepping in to give different looks. I'm all for complimenting Hillis with different "type" backs in the future, and maybe investing a mid-round pick next year to find that complimentary back (I don't think it needs to be a scat-back type either; just someone to give a different look).

However, I really believe that Hillis has the look of thunder in a thunder/ligthening combo.

Archer81
12-05-2008, 09:25 AM
Its funny how this board goes nuts over white dudes.


They go nuts over any Bronco that does well.

:Broncos:

ANIMAL24
12-05-2008, 09:50 AM
lol i like him, but talk to me when he has a 200 yrd or 4 td game...

Kaylore
12-05-2008, 09:53 AM
Two games? Lets wait and see if he lasts more than four games. If he does, then I'll be ready to say he's the best back since Michael Pittman.

cutthemdown
12-05-2008, 10:07 AM
I don't know about the best RB, he's only played a little bit. Let's see him do it week in and week out.

For sure though he is the whitest RB we have had since Joe Dudeck!!!!!

cutthemdown
12-05-2008, 10:08 AM
By the way if you know who Joe Dudeck was you might be a Broncos fan!!!

Rigs11
12-05-2008, 10:14 AM
screw putting him in as FB. Let him play RB.Guy is a monster.

Beantown Bronco
12-05-2008, 10:18 AM
When healthy (which admittedly wasn't long), Travis Henry was probably the most talented pure tailback Denver has had since Portis.

Spider
12-05-2008, 10:20 AM
By the way if you know who Joe Dudeck was you might be a Broncos fan!!!

:rofl: or Blake Ezzor..........

broncofan7
12-05-2008, 10:27 AM
i like how he gives us the 2nd and 6 type setup instead of the 2nd and 12 or 2nd and 10 setups we were getting with our smaller backs.....

we have Torain coming back next year to split carries with Hillis with Young as a change of pace back...

NO RUNNING BACK EARLY IN THE DRAFT NEXT YEAR...work on the defense

True Dat. Plus we have 'Quick 6' coming back--that guy is gonna be something special on 3rd downs for us, I saw him play in the preseason in person against Houston too and he had a very impressive start against AZ in the finale--he has another gear that others do not---gets the corner at WILL. If Peyton continues to avg 4.8-5 yards per carry--he warrants starting in our offense--we are deadly if we continue to have 2&5, 2&4's---The difference between Peytons AVG per carry and Selvin's or Tatums AVG per carry si that Peytons AVG is not as heavily skewed by 20+ yard runs--he will generally get us 4-5 yards per carry. IMHO we should not take a RB in the 1st round IMHO--FREE SAFETY, FREE SAFETY, FREE SAFETY and another DT and MLB/SLB in the first 4 rounds.

bronco_diesel
12-05-2008, 10:30 AM
They also said he was better then Jim Brown and were sizing him up for his bust in Canton, I don't think at this point he is better then Mike Anderson. In the future, maybe, but not right now.

uh, i believe that was said tongue in cheek

Greybeard
12-05-2008, 10:43 AM
I agree with that. Droughns may have been the most underrated back we've had in here in the last decade. I was shocked that we got rid of him. I know Shanahan likes the home-run hitters, but Droughns was really effective for us.

But, as far as Hillis "belonging" at FB... he belongs carrying the ball. I don't care what you want to call him. Right now, he needs 20 carries a game, minimum and if we get a highly talented back to split carries (which we don't have now) .... then cut his carries, somewhat.

But, this kid is not a traditional fullback. He's not a dumpy short-yardage podder and he's not a pure blocking FB. He's an athlete who needs to be seeing 15-20 touches per game, and until it's proven differently (i.e. that 5 yards per carry average drops) ... then I want him carrying the ball.

Call him whatever you want.

Agreed. Shanny said Hillis is the best "when he has the ball in his hands." It's
amazing the number of people who want to throw Hillis under the bus as a RB
even as he is getting 5 YPC and helping to open up the passing game . . .
which had not been done very effectively prior to that.

-----

cmhargrove
12-05-2008, 10:54 AM
Hillis is a straight ahead bruiser. There's not much lateral agility there.

He is what he is. He is not a threat to break the big one. He's a short yardage back behind what is the Broncos' best offensive line since the mini-dynasty.

I would rather see a legit back with both size and speed, but you work with what you have and right now, the Broncos have Hillis.

The Broncos running system has never really been about lateral agility, even the zone stretch play that everyone keeps bringing up. Our system has always been one that relied on the RB's ability to see a cutback lane and then hit it hard for positive yards. Hillis had several runs against the Jets that he had to squeeze through tiny holes in the line and break through arm tackles to do so.

If we were looking at lateral mobility, Quentin Griffin would have been our world beater. The problem is, he couldn't dig out the hard positive yards when we needed them, and he couldn't hold on to the ball. Hillis does both.

And, our O-line didn't look like a great run-blocking line until Hillis stepped in there. Take that for what it's worth.

epicSocialism4tw
12-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Agreed. Shanny said Hillis is the best "when he has the ball in his hands." It's
amazing the number of people who want to throw Hillis under the bus as a RB
even as he is getting 5 YPC and helping to open up the passing game . . .
which had not been done very effectively prior to that.

-----

"Throw him under the bus"?

Nah.

The rational folks just arent ready to crown him as the solution to a major problem that requires a major solution.

bronco_diesel
12-05-2008, 11:17 AM
I like Hillis. I think he is a demoralizer to a defense. He’s not going to get you 40 yard runs, but he will get you 4 and 10 and the occasional 20. You cannot arm tackle him, you have to totally commit to the tackle and he is going to punish you in the process. If you need the yards, he’s proving he can get them for you. He runs and hits with authority.

With his body of work thus far, he has proven to excel in all areas. He can catch out of the backfield, he can leap over a tackler or run through them. He has the vision to see the hole. He’s certainly not flashy, but he brings a toughness to this running game that I feel is a great compliment to the passing game.

I can’t say he is the best since Portis, but he is making a good case for it.

maher_tyler
12-05-2008, 11:57 AM
I agree with that. Droughns may have been the most underrated back we've had in here in the last decade. I was shocked that we got rid of him. I know Shanahan likes the home-run hitters, but Droughns was really effective for us.

But, as far as Hillis "belonging" at FB... he belongs carrying the ball. I don't care what you want to call him. Right now, he needs 20 carries a game, minimum and if we get a highly talented back to split carries (which we don't have now) .... then cut his carries, somewhat.

But, this kid is not a traditional fullback. He's not a dumpy short-yardage podder and he's not a pure blocking FB. He's an athlete who needs to be seeing 15-20 touches per game, and until it's proven differently (i.e. that 5 yards per carry average drops) ... then I want him carrying the ball.

Call him whatever you want.

Seems to me like he could be a Mike Allstott type of FB/RB...put him in at HB when we need tough yards or just want to wear down an opposing defense.

kappys
12-05-2008, 12:00 PM
Whatever Hillis does is going to depend upon how Shanahan "evolves" his O. If Hillis could be the H-back and split out as well as run, then I'd think we'd see more of a true two-back offense that features two backs with a lot of motion, splits, dives and some "traditional" Broncos runs. Greater flexibility of the backs, the greater variety of plays and plans Shanahan can develop. Opposing DCs wouldn't be able to plan as well because of the variety of schemes the Broncos could bring to the game week-by-week.

I hope Hillis stays on course and continues to do well. But he is really just now beginning to show what he can do.

I think you're spot on here. The real gift is Hillis' receiving abilities. It gives him great versatility. I'm not sure I want to see the nintendo offense back in Denver, but with the line we currently have and Cutler behind them it might actually work. The fact that he can run it from there in a single back set is huge.

I'll say this for hillis - he has excellent vision and chooses the right gap to go through most of the time.

Br0nc0Buster
12-05-2008, 12:05 PM
I will echo the sentiments already expressed.
I really like Hillis, and I really liked Droughns.

I dont understand why people are trying to find reasons to take Hillis out as starting HB.
If Hillis was black, and we drafted him in the 2nd round instead of the 7th, would anyone honestly object to him being in there?

He is playing like a stud, regardless of draft position or skin color.

I think we should get someone to compliment his power, get a speedy back. But Hillis is a playmaker, and as long as he keeps producing, it would be foolish to lesson his workload.

TheReverend
12-05-2008, 12:20 PM
I will echo the sentiments already expressed.
I really like Hillis, and I really liked Droughns.

I dont understand why people are trying to find reasons to take Hillis out as starting HB.
If Hillis was black, and we drafted him in the 2nd round instead of the 7th, would anyone honestly object to him being in there?

He is playing like a stud, regardless of draft position or skin color.

I think we should get someone to compliment his power, get a speedy back. But Hillis is a playmaker, and as long as he keeps producing, it would be foolish to lesson his workload.

The race issue doesn't bother me at all unless we're talking corners and quarterbacks.

Call me old fashion, but I'll admit to being prejudice/borderline racist on those positions. Odds are that my own stereotype there stems from college coaches own prejudices... athletic white kid that wants to play corner? You're a safety now. Black kid that can throw a beautiful ball and read defenses well? You better learn to run with it! WTF, seriously?!?!

Archer81
12-05-2008, 12:20 PM
I will echo the sentiments already expressed.
I really like Hillis, and I really liked Droughns.

I dont understand why people are trying to find reasons to take Hillis out as starting HB.
If Hillis was black, and we drafted him in the 2nd round instead of the 7th, would anyone honestly object to him being in there?
He is playing like a stud, regardless of draft position or skin color.

I think we should get someone to compliment his power, get a speedy back. But Hillis is a playmaker, and as long as he keeps producing, it would be foolish to lesson his workload.



Careful, we already had someone say we only love Hillis for being white...


:Broncos:

BigPlayShay
12-05-2008, 12:27 PM
By the way if you know who Joe Dudeck was you might be a Broncos fan!!!

Booooo Scabs LOL

Jason in LA
12-05-2008, 12:33 PM
Its funny how this board goes nuts over white dudes.

Well, ah, I'm glad I'm not the one to say that. ;D

epicSocialism4tw
12-05-2008, 12:42 PM
Well, ah, I'm glad I'm not the one to say that. ;D

The great white hope is alive and well. Ha!

cutthemdown
12-05-2008, 12:47 PM
If Puff daddy can say the next Bond, next Superman, should both be black then us whitey's can be excited Hillis is representing the white boy at the RB position right now in the NFL!!!!!

Things keep going like this and we could see a white man playing cornerback!!!!

epicSocialism4tw
12-05-2008, 12:49 PM
If Puff daddy can say the next Bond, next Superman, should both be black then us whitey's can be excited Hillis is representing the white boy at the RB position right now in the NFL!!!!!

Things keep going like this and we could see a white man playing cornerback!!!!


Somebody over 13 years of age cares what a man named "Puff Daddy" says?

cutthemdown
12-05-2008, 12:53 PM
Somebody over 13 years of age cares what a man named "Puff Daddy" says?

knowing what somebody said, and caring what somebody said, are two different things.

Tombstone RJ
12-05-2008, 12:54 PM
Popps is 100% right on.

It pisses me off as a coach when people look at a player and tell you what he should be like - "that kid is the fastest, he needs to be the WR/RB." While conventional wisdom will send you down the right path, you have to watch who the "gamers" are. Those guys who practice ok, but always step up to the competition. They find holes, break tackles, make assignments, and find the end zone.

I loved Reuben also, but his best year for the Broncos, he had 6 TD's and 5 fumbles. Peyton (in very limited duty) has five TD's and no fumbles. He extends drives, breaks tackles, and gives Cutler more chances to win the game. Why can't people around here see that?

I would be very happy taking a fast RB in next year's draft to compliment Hillis, but I think the job should be his forever if he continues to play like this. Hillis scores TD's and wins games. Those are facts. You guys need to stop knocking him for perceived deficiencies and look at what he is doing.

Finally, the crap about the stretch play needs to just die. Everyone knows the stretch play, everyone can defend it now. Hillis runs up the gut and keeps extra defenders near the middle of the field. Please watch how our offense is being transformed into something better. Hillis is fine at making the cutback, and he's not afraid of straight up contact - best of both worlds.

Hillis has been a great fix to a lousy situation. But, you do have to remember this: He's a fantastic weapon that can be utilized in a variety of ways, FB, RB, TE perhaps. If you keep him as a bruising RB your gonna shorten his playing career. Your gonna use him up in 3 years and he's gonna be gone.

Do you want that? I don't.

I say get a RB on the first day of the draft, make it a damn priority, and then give the reigns over to Torain and a draft pick and keep Hillis as a Tom Rathman type of weapon.

Irish Stout
12-05-2008, 01:02 PM
I love Hillis. I love Young. I love Pittman. I'm excited to see Aldridge and Torain have their shot. I'm not crazy on Hall, but I haven't written him off.

I will support whoever we throw in at HB with all my heart as long as they play with all their heart and don't do stupid things off the field (i.e. THenrying up the Womens). If Hillis can show us in more than one game that he is capable of breaking 100 yards rushing in 20 odd carries a game every game, there is no reason he should not be our primary back. If he appears to wear down after awhile (he didn't in his primary game), then lets keep him in motion on what position he plays. Personally I support him at HB first then put him in as that Dallas Clark type player next.

Give us more Hillis for now Shanny cause there aren't too many options and we're all wondering if he's for real or if its just luck. It very well could be luck as the Jets probably weren't preparing for a whole lot of running plays from us given our season's history.

ScottXray
12-05-2008, 01:14 PM
I love Hillis. I love Young. I love Pittman. I'm excited to see Aldridge and Torain have their shot. I'm not crazy on Hall, but I haven't written him off.

I will support whoever we throw in at HB with all my heart as long as they play with all their heart and don't do stupid things off the field (i.e. THenrying up the Womens). If Hillis can show us in more than one game that he is capable of breaking 100 yards rushing in 20 odd carries a game every game, there is no reason he should not be our primary back. If he appears to wear down after awhile (he didn't in his primary game), then lets keep him in motion on what position he plays. Personally I support him at HB first then put him in as that Dallas Clark type player next.

Give us more Hillis for now Shanny cause there aren't too many options and we're all wondering if he's for real or if its just luck. It very well could be luck as the Jets probably weren't preparing for a whole lot of running plays from us given our season's history.

So we passed 43 times in the rain. We ran 22 . 2-1 pass/run is about what we have done all year. Saying the Jets didn't expect the run is making excuses...what they didn't expect is that we would pass effectively , and they didn't expect that Cutlers Uni would be clean at the end of the game. We made their D look like ours has most of the year. Not able to get off the field, not able to get to the QB and unable to stop the run when they had to.

We trounced them both passing and running.

ZONA
12-05-2008, 01:15 PM
Hillis has earned the right to be the starting back for the remainder of the year. Let's see how that goes. If he is getting 100+ yards each game, I think you will see alot of Hillis as a single back next year.


There are quite a few upsides to having him be a feature back. Here's why.

Yes, he's huge. Not huge as in "man that guy is a big RB at 230 pounds". He's 250 pounds. Bigger then Michael Turner huge is what I'm talking about. He breaks tackles and punishes a defense. You see CB's and safeties come up to hit him and they bounce off. He is actually very athletic for his size. Last week you saw him take a hand off and do a 360 spin move at the LOS to avoid a tackler and then hit the hole for a nice chunk. He seems to really have a knack for picking the the correct running lanes. So his vision is pretty good. He's had one fumble I can think of. So ball security is high with him. And, being a natural blocker and with great size, he can pick up the blitz better then any other RB we could have back there. He has great hands and can catch passes in the flat. And because of all the mentioned above, you don't need a FB. That allows us to have either a 2 TE -2 WR set or a 1 TE-3 WR set at ALL TIMES. The defense will need to be in nickle most of the time and probably switch up to dime often to cover all the receiving options. You want to talk about running lanes. That's one way to get them. And if a lane gets plugged up by a safety or CB, well, we've seen how that goes. Hillis drags these guys for another 5 yards.

The only thing Hillis is not gonna give you is the occasional break it for 60 yards TD run. But how often do those really happen anyway.

I'm actually warming up to the idea of him being in there in a single back set and giving Jay 5 receiving options at all times (that includes Hillis as a receiving option also).

It's actually a bad argument that he is not as fast as most RB's or as shifty. So those guys have a little more speed and that might get them some additional yards. Hillis just prefers to run through guys and carry them for the additional yards. I think it all works out the same. Except this guy is gonna stuff it in for you on short yardage situations. And the fact he can be on the field all the time, the defense won't know what play is coming. Sometimes they can tell from certain sets coming in.

ZONA
12-05-2008, 01:24 PM
Hillis has been a great fix to a lousy situation. But, you do have to remember this: He's a fantastic weapon that can be utilized in a variety of ways, FB, RB, TE perhaps. If you keep him as a bruising RB your gonna shorten his playing career. Your gonna use him up in 3 years and he's gonna be gone.

Do you want that? I don't.

I say get a RB on the first day of the draft, make it a damn priority, and then give the reigns over to Torain and a draft pick and keep Hillis as a Tom Rathman type of weapon.


That's a bunch of BS. Giving a 250 pound back the ball 20 times a game is not abusing him. It's the other way around. You're talking about a converted FB here. Not some ginger footed RB. He's does the abusing. They dude never gets up slow or grimmaces in pain. He's a tough dude. I don't recall John Riggins being washed up after 3 years. No offense dude but your statement is a joke.

DarkHorse
12-05-2008, 01:28 PM
He's doing a great job protecting the ball and moving the chains right now. That said, we need to seriously address the Safety and RB position on this team next draft.

No more screwing around trying to find late round studs and looking like a genius at RB - take a shot at a premier RB coming out and give Cutler that final piece to the Offense.

Safety is another issue that needs serious consideration for an early round stud.

Gcver2ver3
12-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Umm, no.

He's "not a RB?" What team are you watching?

We do not need to create cute situations for Hillis. We do not need him to be "flexible." When you say he needs to "do his thing," he is. He's running the **** over people and doing it more effectively than any back we've plugged in there since Mike Anderson.

Do we need someone to share carries? Sure, his running style is such that he may wear down. Do we need to move him to fullback and play cute games with him? **** no. This guy gains yards after contact. He's deceptively fast, has above average vision, can make the cutback and has an excellent ypc average.

Yes, he's also a good athlete and has great hands. So, yes... he can run routes, catch passes, whatever. But, I'm bloody-sick of people making this fantasy-land argument that he needs to be made into some sort of novelty-back or decoy so we can plug in some sub-par back like Selvin Young.

I mean, are people just not paying attention? He's averaging 5 yards per carry. Until that changes, let's kill the talk of how we need to line him up at wide receiver or have him returning kicks, or directing traffic into the stadium on Sundays. This guy makes the offense work when he's lined up at RB. Leave it alone.


this is the best post i've read in six months...

and it's not even close...

DarkHorse
12-05-2008, 01:32 PM
That's it - i'm putting together a Hillis compilation

Popps
12-05-2008, 01:40 PM
I like Hillis at HB. You need 4 yards, he'll give you 4 yards! You need 10 yards, he'll give you 4 yards!


Hillis had three runs of 20 yards against the Jets and has broken numerous in the 10-30 range outside of that, not to mention a bunch of long-yardage pass plays.

Again, I think people are confusing what he may look like doing it with what he's actually doing. Just because he's a big dude doesn't mean he's not producing numbers on par with a smaller RB.

Popps
12-05-2008, 01:50 PM
Seems to me like he could be a Mike Allstott type of FB/RB...put him in at HB when we need tough yards or just want to wear down an opposing defense.

Again, there's no need to assume he's a Mike Alstott type at this point. Mike Alstott couldn't catch passes like a tight end. Alstott couldn't bust off three 20 yard runs in a game. Alstott didn't put up RB numbers... Hillis HAS.

I can't quite wrap my head around why people here want to force this guy out of a role where he's been wildly productive.

ZONA
12-05-2008, 01:53 PM
He looks like a 250 pound FB standing in the huddle..........but he sure doesn't look like a FB when he's running the ball. He looks like a very large RB with good moves, decent speed, good vision, and pounds defenders. The clip below shows him making some nifty cuts, some nice burst through the middle lanes, and yes, the smash you in the mouth run from a yard out to score a TD.

We shall see how this goes, if he can do it week in and week out. But, he's earned the right to keep this job for now. I've seen enough of him now and I believe he can be THE back for us.

Check it out - this was highlights from last week, and not even all of them. Just click the link below and then find the WK 13 Petyon Hillis video.

http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=players-air-and-ground#

ZONA
12-05-2008, 02:01 PM
Again, there's no need to assume he's a Mike Alstott type at this point. Mike Alstott couldn't catch passes like a tight end. Alstott couldn't bust off three 20 yard runs in a game. Alstott didn't put up RB numbers... Hillis HAS.

I can't quite wrap my head around why people here want to force this guy out of a role where he's been wildly productive.


I agree with ya bro. Alstott looks like a FB and runs like one too. Hillis runs like a RB. Huge difference. Hillis is faster and more athletic and more skilled with the same size.

I also remember a 7th rounder for us some years ago that finally got a chance to start at RB and he broke some records and won a few SB as I remember.

Popps
12-05-2008, 02:02 PM
That's it - i'm putting together a Hillis compilation

Someone already did one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSjDe0WDuCg

Funny thing is, this doesn't even include the Jets game, his best as a RB.

gyldenlove
12-05-2008, 02:06 PM
Hillis is a lot more like Brandon Jacobs who was a FB at Auburn behind Ronnie Brown and Carnell Williams who both got drafted in the 1st round.

They are about the same size, run about equally fast and they both bounce off players very nicely.

I loved last week when Abram Elam was leaning into a low hit on Hillis and Hillis just puts him on the ground and gains another 10 yards like he never even got touched. When he gets moving he has size advantage over every DB and most linebackers.

ZONA
12-05-2008, 02:09 PM
Someone already did one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSjDe0WDuCg

Funny thing is, this doesn't even include the Jets game, his best as a RB.

Damn, did you see Hillis crash into #95 of the Browns? Hillis just doesn't crush small CB's and safeties, he blows 260 pounds LB's back like he was a tank. And that over the shoulder catch downfield. Damn, that's a great catch for a WR.

This guy is no joke. He is the real deal folks. Shut up and get on board. You could take the highlights from just the Browns, Falcons and Jets game and Hillis would have more crushing blows dished out in those 3 games then all of our RB's combined for the whole season.

I'm calling it - Hillis is our guy. Hillis the Juggernaut
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6a/200px-Juggsmovie.PNG

Tombstone RJ
12-05-2008, 02:11 PM
That's a bunch of BS. Giving a 250 pound back the ball 20 times a game is not abusing him. It's the other way around. You're talking about a converted FB here. Not some ginger footed RB. He's does the abusing. They dude never gets up slow or grimmaces in pain. He's a tough dude. I don't recall John Riggins being washed up after 3 years. No offense dude but your statement is a joke.

The days of John Riggins are over and gone. How many productive seasons did TD have? The chances of a shortened career are amplified if he lines up at RB and gets 25+ touches a game.

But, I'll concede this because your other post is extremely valid: if Shanny decides to stick with Hillis at RB, I'd be very interested to see him split carries with Alridge.

gyldenlove
12-05-2008, 02:14 PM
Damn, did you see Hillis crash into #95 of the Browns? Hillis just doesn't crush small CB's and safeties, he blows 260 pounds LB's back like he was a tank. And that over the shoulder catch downfield. Damn, that's a great catch for a WR.

This guy is no joke. He is the real deal folks. Shut up and get on board.

Agree, you can see he played WR for a while with Arkansas, he has a couple of nice tiptoe moves along the sideline as well he has very good awareness.

Of course if he doesn't stick at HB, he will be a very good compliment to Scheffler as H-back, he can line up wide with his speed and hands, he can lead block.

ZONA
12-05-2008, 02:19 PM
The days of John Riggins are over and gone. How many productive seasons did TD have? The chances of a shortened career are amplified if he lines up at RB and gets 25+ touches a game.

But, I'll concede this because your other post is extremely valid: if Shanny decides to stick with Hillis at RB, I'd be very interested to see him split carries with Alridge.

TD's career was cut short because of an injury that had nothing to do with being a work horse. Same thing happend to our rookie Ryan Torain and he didnt have but a handful of carries. Some falls on your legs wrong and it's over. TD was having still running great up to that point when Sharpe fell on him.

Yes, indeed you would see a part time fast RB to spell him. You have to change things up sometimes. I could see another RB getting a full series or 2 as well as some 2nd down runs or something.

ZONA
12-05-2008, 02:24 PM
Just put #40 on this guy and we'll call him Hillis :thumbsup:

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6a/200px-Juggsmovie.PNG

Inkana7
12-05-2008, 02:29 PM
The days of John Riggins are over and gone. How many productive seasons did TD have? The chances of a shortened career are amplified if he lines up at RB and gets 25+ touches a game.

But, I'll concede this because your other post is extremely valid: if Shanny decides to stick with Hillis at RB, I'd be very interested to see him split carries with Alridge.

TD was 45 pounds lighter.

ZONA
12-05-2008, 02:30 PM
That's it - i'm putting together a Hillis compilation

Can I suggest that you use the song from Disturbed "Enemy" for the music? :)
That would be perfect.

You also NEED to put a few segments from this clip in there. The part when he plows through all the bodies outside and then the walls inside.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Kv1USJIPaSw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Kv1USJIPaSw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

ZONA
12-05-2008, 02:31 PM
TD was 45 pounds lighter.

I think 45 pounds lighter is pushing it. Hillis is right at 250 and TD in his prime was 215-220. Remember, TD had some guns on him :thumbsup:

Inkana7
12-05-2008, 02:36 PM
TD looked 220. He was listed at 208.

ward63
12-05-2008, 02:41 PM
I agree with ya bro. Alstott looks like a FB and runs like one too. Hillis runs like a RB. Huge difference. Hillis is faster and more athletic and more skilled with the same size.

I also remember a 6th rounder for us some years ago that finally got a chance to start at RB and he broke some records and won a few SB as I remember.

Fixed...

bronco_diesel
12-05-2008, 04:06 PM
article on hillis by BW:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-995/Versatile-Hillis-latest-Denver-RB-standout.html

Dedhed
12-05-2008, 04:21 PM
They go nuts over any Bronco that does well.

:Broncos:

Unless it's Selvin Young who's "struggled" this year while averaging almost a yard/carry more than Hillis.

Archer81
12-05-2008, 04:39 PM
Unless it's Selvin Young who's "struggled" this year while averaging almost a yard/carry more than Hillis.


But he's black, thats expected.


:Broncos:

cmhargrove
12-05-2008, 04:52 PM
Check out the pic from practice today. Any RB with a camo hat deserves to start. End of subject...

Willynowei
12-05-2008, 04:53 PM
Provided Hillis stays healthy, this thread will likely be bumped for us all to laugh at the doubters in the future.

Hillis is an absolute beast. He hits the hole with authority and his running form is good - unlike the ultra fragile Ryan Toraine, who I promise you will never make it in this league - its simple, that guy runs sloppy, with his limps scattered all over the place. Hillis on the otherhand, runs compact, he lacks elite speed but at 250lbs, does it really matter?

Archer81
12-05-2008, 04:54 PM
Check out the pic from practice today. Any RB with a camo hat deserves to start. End of subject...


I am wondering if this board is succumbing to a man crush of epic proportions...


:Broncos:

Bronx33
12-05-2008, 04:54 PM
Hillis is a meat and potato running back and is truley thankful hes in the position hes in and taking advantage of it, he has my full support.

PRBronco
12-05-2008, 05:21 PM
I am wondering if this board is succumbing to a man crush of epic proportions...


:Broncos:

Why? Do you....think he might be interested? *fixes hair

Popps
12-05-2008, 05:26 PM
Unless it's Selvin Young who's "struggled" this year while averaging almost a yard/carry more than Hillis.

Yea, Selvin's great. A series of 2 yard runs, then a 15 yard run. Great for an offense. Let's start him this weekend.

Sh#t, wait... he's never healthy. That's right. Never mind.

But, Selvin's awesome. Really.

Taco John
12-05-2008, 06:12 PM
Again, there's no need to assume he's a Mike Alstott type at this point. Mike Alstott couldn't catch passes like a tight end. Alstott couldn't bust off three 20 yard runs in a game. Alstott didn't put up RB numbers... Hillis HAS.

I can't quite wrap my head around why people here want to force this guy out of a role where he's been wildly productive.


For me it's simple: Shanahan has had the most success with two good runningbacks on the field, instead of just one. In his wildest success, he had Howard Griffith, a 250 pound bruiser who could block, catch, and pound out extra yards in key situations. He complimented him with a stellar runningback who had a downhill running style and could hit the cutback lane to break off hope crushing runs.

Howard Griffith is one of my favorite Broncos of all time. I would love to see Hillis reprise that role.

There's another role that I'd like to see reprised as well: the bruising cutback runner.

DHallblows
12-05-2008, 06:38 PM
I don't fully understand why people keep saying he needs to go back to FB and say he's a true FB. Until his Sophomore year at Arkansas, wasn't he a RB his whole career? Unfortunately 2 other RBs came in the next year and took his spot so he was switched to FB. I think that's what happened (going off of memory so call me on it if I'm wrong). He's still a RB in my eyes.

And the 240 lbs or whatever he's at IS in all muscle, he's not some fat lard FB that's only there to block. He's got guns!

Great hands, break tackle and cuts. Can't argue with that in a RB! His vision isn't what I'd like (It seems like he's missed a few obvious cutbacks this season), but that's probably because he's being switched back to RB and isn't used to it completely yet. AND he's a rookie. So it's understandable. Hopefully it'll be fixed by the end of the season. If so he COULD break 2K in our system (seriously, not the sarcastic way we say it about anyone who's a FA:rofl:) if we ease back into a more balanced attack.

There's my unprofessional-20 year old-only watched each game once live-opinion.

Popps
12-05-2008, 07:21 PM
For me it's simple: Shanahan has had the most success with two good runningbacks on the field, instead of just one. In his wildest success, he had Howard Griffith, a 250 pound bruiser who could block, catch, and pound out extra yards in key situations. He complimented him with a stellar runningback who had a downhill running style and could hit the cutback lane to break off hope crushing runs.

Agree, though Griffith was much more a pure fullback. He just happened to have good hands. He's nowhere near the athlete Hillis is.


Howard Griffith is one of my favorite Broncos of all time. I would love to see Hillis reprise that role.

There's another role that I'd like to see reprised as well: the bruising cutback runner.

Agree. I loved Griffith, I'm just saying that Hillis won't end up that guy.

That said, I'm thrilled bringing in another back to share carries. It's a nice problem to have. My point has been simply that people who want to coin Hillis a plodder or a short-yardage fullback simply aren't aware of what they're watching.

Popps
12-05-2008, 07:30 PM
Provided Hillis stays healthy, this thread will likely be bumped for us all to laugh at the doubters in the future.

Hillis is an absolute beast. He hits the hole with authority and his running form is good - unlike the ultra fragile Ryan Toraine, who I promise you will never make it in this league - its simple, that guy runs sloppy, with his limps scattered all over the place. Hillis on the otherhand, runs compact, he lacks elite speed but at 250lbs, does it really matter?

The only issue with him may ironically be his size. 6'2" RBs sometimes have trouble staying healthy. I do agree that we should have another capable back, but until I see one on the roster... Hillis should be getting 20 carries a game.

People act as if it's simple to go out and grab the next Walter Payton. We've been subbing out RBs since TD left. We've got potentially very productive back in Hillis. He needs to start at running back. The nonsense about moving him to fullback full-time can come into play when there's someone on the roster who's better than he is.

Until then, our offense has looked the most efficient when he's back there taking the bulk of the carries.

Having a productive running game averaging 5 yards a carry and dictating the tempo of games isn't a "problem" we need to fix. Hillis' success isn't the same as Woodyard playing well. Hillis brought production to a position where there was none. End of story.

lostknight
12-05-2008, 07:49 PM
The only issue with him may ironically be his size. 6'2" RBs sometimes have trouble staying healthy. I do agree that we should have another capable back, but until I see one on the roster... Hillis should be getting 20 carries a game.

People act as if it's simple to go out and grab the next Walter Payton. We've been subbing out RBs since TD left. We've got potentially very productive back in Hillis. He needs to start at running back. The nonsense about moving him to fullback full-time can come into play when there's someone on the roster who's better than he is.

Until then, our offense has looked the most efficient when he's back there taking the bulk of the carries.

Having a productive running game averaging 5 yards a carry and dictating the tempo of games isn't a "problem" we need to fix. Hillis' success isn't the same as Woodyard playing well. Hillis brought production to a position where there was none. End of story.


Amen. The Broncos would so best with some consistancy with the RB position. We have QB and WR and TE for homerun hits, a stable rb position would be great.

Jens1893
12-05-2008, 08:10 PM
wont get involved in the hillis argument, but i think mike anderson was severely underrated by many.

yerner
12-05-2008, 08:30 PM
The only issue with him may ironically be his size. 6'2" RBs sometimes have trouble staying healthy. I do agree that we should have another capable back, but until I see one on the roster... Hillis should be getting 20 carries a game.

People act as if it's simple to go out and grab the next Walter Payton. We've been subbing out RBs since TD left. We've got potentially very productive back in Hillis. He needs to start at running back. The nonsense about moving him to fullback full-time can come into play when there's someone on the roster who's better than he is.

Until then, our offense has looked the most efficient when he's back there taking the bulk of the carries.

Having a productive running game averaging 5 yards a carry and dictating the tempo of games isn't a "problem" we need to fix. Hillis' success isn't the same as Woodyard playing well. Hillis brought production to a position where there was none. End of story.

all this certainty after one good game, huh? you must have thought Griffin was Barry Sanders when he put up almost 200. Probably not. Seriously, you should have hillis' kid.

Popps
12-05-2008, 09:02 PM
all this certainty after one good game, huh? you must have thought Griffin was Barry Sanders when he put up almost 200. Probably not. Seriously, you should have hillis' kid.

Oh look everyone, it's the guy who called the entire forum gay racists because Hillis is a popular player. No more great takes like that, boss?

Yea, you're right... Hillis has only had "one good game."

Far be it from me to make any suggestions to your epic posts, but you may want to go ahead and watch football at some point in your life. Then, watch the Broncos. Then, actually read some posts around here and educate yourself.

Until then, I guess go back to telling us all that the only reason we like any players is because they're white.

kappys
12-05-2008, 11:23 PM
The only issue with him may ironically be his size. 6'2" RBs sometimes have trouble staying healthy. I do agree that we should have another capable back, but until I see one on the roster... Hillis should be getting 20 carries a game.

People act as if it's simple to go out and grab the next Walter Payton. We've been subbing out RBs since TD left. We've got potentially very productive back in Hillis. He needs to start at running back. The nonsense about moving him to fullback full-time can come into play when there's someone on the roster who's better than he is.

Until then, our offense has looked the most efficient when he's back there taking the bulk of the carries.

Having a productive running game averaging 5 yards a carry and dictating the tempo of games isn't a "problem" we need to fix. Hillis' success isn't the same as Woodyard playing well. Hillis brought production to a position where there was none. End of story.

He runs pretty low though. He has great instincts and vision as exemplified by the fact that he gets 2 hands on the ball almost everytime he is going to get tackled. He is also very good about getting low to the ground when he encounters a defender so hopefully that will help keep him injury free

Popps
12-06-2008, 12:15 AM
He runs pretty low though. He has great instincts and vision as exemplified by the fact that he gets 2 hands on the ball almost everytime he is going to get tackled. He is also very good about getting low to the ground when he encounters a defender so hopefully that will help keep him injury free

True, if you watch him hit the hole, his pad-level is good. Big runners are just bigger targets, and guys bruisers usually end up a little bruised themselves.

The ultimate scenario, imo would be a 15 carry, 3-5 catch game for him... and 10-15 carries for another back, hopefully a Jones-Drew type.

When Bell was running well, we had a similar situation with him/Anderson.

Greybeard
12-06-2008, 12:18 AM
He runs pretty low though. He has great instincts and vision as exemplified by the fact that he gets 2 hands on the ball almost everytime he is going to get tackled. He is also very good about getting low to the ground when he encounters a defender so hopefully that will help keep him injury free

That and Hllis knows how to dole out punishment.

The risk of injury decreases when you are delivering rather than receiving.

-----

WolfpackGuy
12-06-2008, 07:54 AM
I like Hillis, but he's too big/tall to be an every down RB in the NFL for an extended period of time. I'd like to see him stick around for more than a couple years. He's also too much of a playmaker to just be an every down FB. I see him as a semi Dallas Clark type who gets some carries out of the backfield. He definitely has a nose for the goalline and first down marker. Let's just say, having a someone as versatile as Hillis is a good thing.

Popps
12-06-2008, 09:36 AM
40 yard dash times....

Frank Gore - 4.66
Adrian Peterson - 4.4
Payton Hillis - 4.58
Matt Forte - 4.51
Johnathan Stewart - 4.44
Lendale White - Skipped
Marshawn Lynch 4.46
Laurence Maroney - 4.49

Again, the 40 doesn't translate into NFL-speed, completely. We all know that. But I think that gives some insight as to where he is speed-wise.

He only carried 60 times in college, but averaged 5.6 yards a carry. (Starting to notice a pattern?)

ZONA
12-06-2008, 10:40 AM
If I see one more person comment on the fact that taller RB's don't do well because of their height, I'm gonna puke. You can't just lump them all together and say that kind of player won't make it in the NFL as a RB. Erick Dickerson was one of the best RB's ever at 6'2 and he lasted a long time and produced at a very high level as we all know. Height is actually not a bad thing if you know how to use it to your advantage, and it seems Hillis really knows how to do that. If you're taller, say 6'2" and you do a good job at lowering your pads on contact, you create more forward body lean which means arm tackles don't reach the runners legs as easy, they are futher back from the shoulders then a smaller RB. You also have a longer (what I call a coil, like spring) and after the contact when you straighten back up, the uncoil is longer, creating more energy pushing the defender away. But, what most taller RB's lack is the leg power to get through the full motion of the uncoil and they lose power. Hillis doesn't have that problem due to his powerful legs and weight.

And let's not forget one of the most important things you see in great runners that's harder to teach then you think. LEG DRIVE !

Hillis has it and it seems to come very natural to him. Even with guys hanging off him, those legs keep churnin. Just take that play a few weeks back where the contact was in the backfield and he had a guy on his back, carring the entire amount of weight of that guys body, he churned those legs and lunged for the endzone stripe and MADE IT.

I love the fact he wraps both arms around the ball when contact is coming. I don't know how many times we have seen ball runners careless with wrapping the ball up.

To be quite honest, I would not mind at all to see Hillis snag 20 carries a game next year while Bell and Young fight for the other carries. When Bell had his best carries, they were later in the game when Anderson had pounded on the defense. His fresh legs with that speed really propelled his best games.

I absolutely don't think we need to bring another back into camp next year. I like the guys we have. The offensive line will continue to get better at run blocking. And a point I made earlier, keeping Hillis in there as a single back set allows you to keep a TE and 3 WR's on the field at all times. Hillis can pick up the blitz well and with that many receiving options on the field, defenses will have to play alot more nickel, which will only help the running game more.

lex
12-06-2008, 11:29 AM
all this certainty after one good game, huh? you must have thought Griffin was Barry Sanders when he put up almost 200. Probably not. Seriously, you should have hillis' kid.

Actually, Hillis did well in the Miami game, where he had over 100 yards receiving. And beyond that he has been able to consistently get tough yards consistently.

Northman
12-06-2008, 11:49 AM
Way too early to tell.

The Joker
12-06-2008, 12:14 PM
Another great aspect of Hillis is that he looks more comfortable running out of the 1 back set. He's not really the type who needs a lead blocker, just a big enough hole to get through and get those tough yards.

With only 1 back on the field, it allows us to use a lot more 2TE sets, which means more Scheffler. More Scheffler is a good thing.

I'm all aboard the bandwagon for now anyway. I think he has it in him to be a very good NFL RB and a potential Mike Anderson type for us. Add a Tatum Bell type (who isn't actually Tatum Bell) and we'll be looking good at RB.

Let Hillis run the rock early in the game, then unleash the faster back on teams in the 2nd half. Start moving Hillis around then to keep him on the field, let him play a bit of TE and FB maybe and do the short yardage work on top of that.

All will be clear by the end of the year anyway. If Hillis keeps producing like he has the last 3 weeks, any arguement for taking carries away from him will be ridiculous.

But I love the idea of him in there running the rock in the first half, wearing teams down and making everything that bit easier for Jay.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 03:09 PM
Actually, Hillis did well in the Miami game, where he had over 100 yards receiving. And beyond that he has been able to consistently get tough yards consistently.

He was lined up at FB for the entire Miami game.

lex
12-06-2008, 03:16 PM
He was lined up at FB for the entire Miami game.


It doesnt matter. We were talking about his ability as a RB. You dont really see FBs getting over 100 yards receiving.

cutthemdown
12-06-2008, 03:27 PM
Broncos offense is getting physical with Graham and Hillis getting the ball. I love it baby!!!!! knock peoples dicks in the dirt!!! That's the way I want Broncos to play. I want us to push people around and pile drive them into the field.

cutthemdown
12-06-2008, 03:29 PM
Shanny talks like he see's Hillis making the move to H-back/TE. I've heard him say twice now he thinks he could be a Dallas Clark type TE.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 04:18 PM
It doesnt matter. We were talking about his ability as a RB.

If the argument is where Hillis has more value as we move into the future, it matters absolutely.

You dont really see FBs getting over 100 yards receiving. Which to me is an argument that he has far more value at that position.

lex
12-06-2008, 04:21 PM
If the argument is where Hillis has more value as we move into the future, it matters absolutely.

Which to me is an argument that he has far more value at that position.

No, because it means he's underutilized at FB.

tsiguy96
12-06-2008, 04:34 PM
No, because it means he's underutilized at FB.

when you are putting up the production at RB that hillis is, why is everyone here so quick to want to move him to another position? i seriously dont understand it.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 04:54 PM
No, because it means he's underutilized at FB.

When has he had 100 yards receiving as a RB? When was the last time we had a FB with the ability to make opposing DCs account for that type of weapon?

When have we had a back put up 129 yards rushing?

Whichever is more rare is where Hillis's greater value lies.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 04:56 PM
when you are putting up the production at RB that hillis is, why is everyone here so quick to want to move him to another position? i seriously dont understand it.His production stands at 4.8 yds/carry. That's mediocre at best for a Denver RB.

Popps
12-06-2008, 05:30 PM
When has he had 100 yards receiving as a RB? When was the last time we had a FB with the ability to make opposing DCs account for that type of weapon?

When have we had a back put up 129 yards rushing?

Whichever is more rare is where Hillis's greater value lies.

Yea.... only, no.

Again, wherever we put him that makes the offense run the most effectively is where his greater value lies, not whichever is more "rare." I'm not sure what "rare" has to do with anything.

The offense runs best right now with him taking the ball from Cutler and running through and over people. If he does it from the FB spot or the RB spot, I'm not concerned. However, he had the most convincing performance of any running back on our team last weekend as a running back against one of the best run defenses in the league. So, again... the rush to create cute, Madden-09 style little scenarios for him won't be necessary.

W

His production stands at 4.8 yds/carry. That's mediocre at best for a Denver RB..

Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis averaged 4.6 yards a carry in our system. So, again... you're incorrect.


As for the imaginary need to create a cutesy fullback-weapon, Mike Shanahan ran almost nothing but a one-back set on Sunday. Mike Shanahan hasn't drafted a pure fullback since Detron Smith. Mike Shanahan only briefly had anything close to a pure fullback when he had Griffith, back in the 90s.

Again, it's very simple... our offense is currently running its best with him taking the bulk of the carries. When a more talented back comes along, we can have a conversation about that person. Until then, Shanahan showed you on Sunday what he thinks of Hillis... ramming him down the Jets throats 22 times... a team that was known to be good run-stoppers. Shanahan wasn't trying to create cute, novelty positions for Hillis... he ran him right at them.

Beyond that, if you do even the slightest bit of research on Hillis coming out of school... he was considered a "tweener" by many. He's never been thought of as a pure FB, and he's physically as gifted as many RBs in the league. Will Shanahan stick with him as a starter going forward? Who knows... he doesn't always do the right thing. He shouldn't have traded Droughns, but he did. That aside, it doesn't discredit the factual information we have in front of us... in that Hillis gives us our best chance to win lined up behind Cutler taking carries. Call him whatever you want.

FireFly
12-06-2008, 05:34 PM
That and Hllis knows how to dole out punishment.

The risk of injury decreases when you are delivering rather than receiving.

-----

That is actually my favourite aspect of his game. He finishes his runs. Lowers his shoulder and pops 'em.

I don't know if he's the best RB since Portis. But in my mind he could be close. And he's certainly my favorite since then; he seems like a good guy, as well as a good football player.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 05:38 PM
Yea.... only, no.

Again, wherever we put him that makes the offense run the most effectively is where his greater value lies, not whichever is more "rare." I'm not sure what "rare" has to do with anything.

The offense runs best right now with him taking the ball from Cutler and running through and over people. If he does it from the FB spot or the RB spot, I'm not concerned. However, he had the most convincing performance of any running back on our team last weekend as a running back against one of the best run defenses in the league. So, again... the rush to create cute, Madden-09 style little scenarios for him won't be necessary.



Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis averaged 4.6 yards a carry in our system. So, again... you're incorrect.


As for the imaginary need to create a cutesy fullback-weapon, Mike Shanahan ran almost nothing but a one-back set on Sunday. Mike Shanahan hasn't drafted a pure fullback since Detron Smith. Mike Shanahan only briefly had anything close to a pure fullback when he had Griffith, back in the 90s.

Again, it's very simple... our offense is currently running its best with him taking the bulk of the carries. When a more talented back comes along, we can have a conversation about that person. Until then, Shanahan showed you on Sunday what he thinks of Hillis... ramming him down the Jets throats 22 times... a team that was known to be good run-stoppers. Shanahan wasn't trying to create cute, novelty positions for Hillis... he ran him right at them.

Beyond that, if you do even the slightest bit of research on Hillis coming out of school... he was considered a "tweener" by many. He's never been thought of as a pure FB, and he's physically as gifted as many RBs in the league. Will Shanahan stick with him as a starter going forward? Who knows... he doesn't always do the right thing. He shouldn't have traded Droughns, but he did. That aside, it doesn't discredit the factual information we have in front of us... in that Hillis gives us our best chance to win lined up behind Cutler taking carries. Call him whatever you want.So I guess you're finally off the Tatum Bell bandwagon? Sorry if I take your assessment of RBs with a huge grain of salt.

Selvin Young is averaging 5.6 yds/carry THIS YEAR! Hillis has had exactly one very nice game as a RB, which about 25 RBs have had in Denver over the last year.

Hillis's production as a RB in this system is easily replaceable. His production as a FB/HB/TE may be unprecedented.

It's really that simple.

tsiguy96
12-06-2008, 05:42 PM
hillis is being very productive in our system....the other backs, especially the ones who are healthy, were not. hes averaging 5.04 yards per carry in his last 3 games, when he was the starter for the team. 4.8 if you count the goal line runs and limited carries before that. that is being damn productive, so why when we get a back who is doing awesome, does everyone want to stop giving him carries?

hes being productive = give him the ball, until either he stops being productive or someone better comes along. end thread.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 05:59 PM
hillis is being very productive in our system....the other backs, especially the ones who are healthy, were not. hes averaging 5.04 yards per carry in his last 3 games, when he was the starter for the team. 4.8 if you count the goal line runs and limited carries before that. that is being damn productive, so why when we get a back who is doing awesome, does everyone want to stop giving him carries?

hes being productive = give him the ball, until either he stops being productive or someone better comes along. end thread.

IF you could pack a few more IFs in there, I might be swayed. Young is averaging 5.6 yds/carry this year, without any ifs.

Hillis is a RB for the rest of the year by default, but it's not his most valuable position to this team going into the future.

Cito Pelon
12-06-2008, 06:22 PM
I'll say again that Hillis = Mark van Eeghen. IIRC, when OAK had van Eeghen 1974-1980 they played in 5 AFC Title games, got beat by Pittsburgh twice, Denver once, and won two Lombardi's.

I have my fingers crossed that Hiillis can match van Eeghen's productivity and the team as a whole can match that productivity. Good times that would be.

tsiguy96
12-06-2008, 06:27 PM
IF you could pack a few more IFs in there, I might be swayed. Young is averaging 5.6 yds/carry this year, without any ifs.

Hillis is a RB for the rest of the year by default, but it's not his most valuable position to this team going into the future.

hillis had 1/5 of his cards on a single carry. on any given play, hes getting 2-3 yards per carry. hillis gets 4-5 because he breaks tackles, runs people over and falls forward.

lex
12-06-2008, 06:34 PM
When has he had 100 yards receiving as a RB? When was the last time we had a FB with the ability to make opposing DCs account for that type of weapon?

When have we had a back put up 129 yards rushing?

Whichever is more rare is where Hillis's greater value lies.

LOL. Your arguments are feeble. Youre really reaching to make points to support your argument. For him to be a fullback would be a waste. He can do too many other things.

Popps
12-06-2008, 06:46 PM
So I guess you're finally off the Tatum Bell bandwagon?

Welcome to 2006. Yea, we've moved on. You may recall Bell having a little success in our system. Then again, can't quite tell from your posts if you actually watch football. Yea, most of us moved on from Bell when he stopped producing.

S
Selvin Young is averaging 5.6 yds/carry THIS YEAR!

Selvin who? Sorry, has he played this year? Talking about the guy in jeans on the sidelines? That Selvin? Yea, he's awesome. I'm going to hold out hope for him to come back so he can run 5 times for no gain, then for 15.
Then, I'm going to stand outside and wait for the Easter Bunny to show up early.

S
Hillis's production as a RB in this system is easily replaceable. His production as a FB/HB/TE may be unprecedented.
.

Yea, well... again, with even the slightest knowledge of Shanahan's use of fullbacks in our history, that's just not accurate. Again, unless you're talking about just giving him 20-25 touches and calling him a fullback, in which case that's fine.

Sorry if I take your assessment of RBs with a huge grain of salt.e.

That's cool, chief. I'll manage to get to sleep tonight. But, you may want to take your beef up with Shanahan, who obviously believes he has value as a runner or he wouldn't have fed him the ball 22 times against the 3rd best defense in the league.

ludo21
12-06-2008, 06:48 PM
Hillis will be better than Portis here.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 07:29 PM
Welcome to 2006. Yea, we've moved on. You may recall Bell having a little success in our system. Then again, can't quite tell from your posts if you actually watch football. Yea, most of us moved on from Bell when he stopped producing.



Selvin who? Sorry, has he played this year? Talking about the guy in jeans on the sidelines? That Selvin? Yea, he's awesome. I'm going to hold out hope for him to come back so he can run 5 times for no gain, then for 15.
Then, I'm going to stand outside and wait for the Easter Bunny to show up early.



Yea, well... again, with even the slightest knowledge of Shanahan's use of fullbacks in our history, that's just not accurate. Again, unless you're talking about just giving him 20-25 touches and calling him a fullback, in which case that's fine.



That's cool, chief. I'll manage to get to sleep tonight. But, you may want to take your beef up with Shanahan, who obviously believes he has value as a runner or he wouldn't have fed him the ball 22 times against the 3rd best defense in the league.Bell had as little success as is humanly possible in this system.

As fo Hillis getting the carries, apparently you've missed the news that Shanahan does not have another single runner. Unless of course we rewind to your previous darling in Tatum. Literally no one else is healthy.

I use Selvin merely to point out that Hillis's production is ho hum as far as RBs go in Denver. 100 yards receiving out of the FB slot is not, and the hands he possesses are surreal.

But if you want to try, yet again, to argue that a square peg is a better fit in a round hole, be my guest. If you want to put a little dough on Hillis being the starting RB in week 1 next year, let's talk.

BroncoManCanuck
12-06-2008, 07:30 PM
Stupid Thread

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 07:31 PM
LOL. Your arguments are feeble. Youre really reaching to make points to support your argument. For him to be a fullback would be a waste. He can do too many other things.

Your argument is shockingly absent. IMO, his talent is wasted at RB.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 07:32 PM
hillis had 1/5 of his cards on a single carry. on any given play, hes getting 2-3 yards per carry. hillis gets 4-5 because he breaks tackles, runs people over and falls forward.

I don't know what "Hillis had 1/5th of his cards on a single carry means".

tsiguy96
12-06-2008, 07:45 PM
I don't know what "Hillis had 1/5th of his cards on a single carry means".

ooops, meant selvin had 1/5 of his yards. hillis is good for consistent positive yardage, no one else except maybe pittman is good for that. hillis + aldridge could be a sick combo.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 07:50 PM
ooops, meant selvin had 1/5 of his yards. hillis is good for consistent positive yardage, no one else except maybe pittman is good for that. hillis + aldridge could be a sick combo.

So , how do explain away Young's career avg?

lex
12-06-2008, 07:54 PM
Your argument is shockingly absent. IMO, his talent is wasted at RB.

Your pathetic posturing doesnt make my observations "shockingly absent". Furthermore, Im not really valuing your opinion on this matter. Im just calling it what it is and you can like it...or not.

tsiguy96
12-06-2008, 07:58 PM
So , how do explain away Young's career avg?

http://www.nfl.com/players/selvinyoung/gamelogs?id=YOU577758&season=2007
http://www.nfl.com/players/selvinyoung/gamelogs?id=YOU577758

he either averages 9-10 ypc, or 4 ypc. just as if hes playing our defense, hell get 2, 3, 2, 4 yards then break one off for 40. average = 10.2 ypc

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 08:19 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/selvinyoung/gamelogs?id=YOU577758&season=2007
http://www.nfl.com/players/selvinyoung/gamelogs?id=YOU577758

he either averages 9-10 ypc, or 4 ypc. just as if hes playing our defense, hell get 2, 3, 2, 4 yards then break one off for 40. average = 10.2 ypc

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0026367And that compares to 4 ypc or 6 ypc how?

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 08:21 PM
Your pathetic posturing doesnt make my observations "shockingly absent". Furthermore, Im not really valuing your opinion on this matter. Im just calling it what it is and you can like it...or not.

Aha, the "your opinion is posturing" because "my opinion is how it is" argument. Impressive.

lex
12-06-2008, 08:24 PM
Aha, the "your opinion is posturing" because "my opinion is how it is" argument. Impressive.

Like I said, Hillis can do too much to only be a FB. Youre idea is wasting his talent.

SureShot
12-06-2008, 08:25 PM
Hillis is the best RB EVA!!!!!11111

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 08:30 PM
Like I said, Hillis can do too much to only be a FB. Youre idea is wasting his talent.

Like I said, Hillis can do too much to be only a RB. Your idea is wasting his talent.

BTW- Youre should be a conjuction: you're, and it means "you are" thus misused in your above sentence and annoying like your take on Hillis.

db56
12-06-2008, 08:31 PM
Man! I just watched the compilation of Hillis and now I'm ready to run through a freakin wall! Damn! This guy is a freakin beast and is exactly what the offense has been lacking since M. Anderson left, a tough, hard nosed runner that gets yards on every play. To top it off, he is just starting the learn "the system", every back that has ever been ultra successful in Denver took awhile to use "the system" to their advantage as far as angles, etc, meaning we are just seeing the begining.

I liked Torain, the little I got to see of him, but from his first carry I was worried about his health, very unortadox style running upright and leaving himself open for fatal blows and the dude didnt make it past 5 carries. Made me sick all the talk about Torain being the most complete back since TD, are u freakin kidding! how can u compare a kid thats never played a down in the NFL to who shoud be a future HOF! Insane!

Selvin, i like the kid, but 2,000 yards, come on man!

IMO, the job is Hillis's to lose.

lex
12-06-2008, 08:36 PM
Like I said, Hillis can do too much to be only a RB. Your idea is wasting his talent.

BTW- Youre should be a conjuction: you're, and it means "you are" thus misused in your above sentence and annoying like your take on Hillis.

Youre right. I used the wrong your/youre. You win a cookie. Go upstairs and ask your mom for one.

And this wasnt directed at me but check out what Young did against KC last year, vs, say, San Diego. Hillis was the first RB all season to put 100 yards up against the Jets. Plus he did well against Atlanta who limited LaT.

Dedhed
12-06-2008, 08:51 PM
Youre right. I used the wrong your/youre. You win a cookie. Go upstairs and ask your mom for one.

And this wasnt directed at me but check out what Young did against KC last year, vs, say, San Diego. Hillis was the first RB all season to put 100 yards up against the Jets. Plus he did well against Atlanta who limited LaT.

Wiegmann was the first C to put up any kind of fight against Jenkins.

Both Pope and Bell put up better #s against the Falcons who limited LT.

lex
12-06-2008, 08:58 PM
Wiegmann was the first C to put up any kind of fight against Jenkins.

Both Pope and Bell put up better #s against the Falcons who limited LT.

Not really. Hillis made some runs that the other guys couldnt make and he also made some nice catches, especially the one along the sidelines where he tightroped his way up the field to get a first down. He made that catch as a RB, since that matters to you.

Inkana7
12-06-2008, 09:00 PM
Not really. Hillis made some runs that the other guys couldnt make and he also made some nice catches, especially the one along the sidelines where he tightroped his way up the field to get a first down. He made that catch as a RB, since that matters to you.

Actually, I've been with you on this argument, but he made that catch as a FB. FB Corner route. The same one he ran for big yardage against Miami.

ZONA
12-06-2008, 09:07 PM
Man! I just watched the compilation of Hillis and now I'm ready to run through a freakin wall! Damn! Awesome. I agree.

I liked Torain, the little I got to see of him, but from his first carry I was worried about his health, very unortadox style running upright and leaving himself open for fatal blows and the dude didnt make it past 5 carries.

Don't be a boob like so many others. Can't you figure it out? Torain did not get hurt because of how he ran. His legs were twisted into a pretzel at the bottom of a pile up after the play was over. His elbow injury also had nothing to do with how he ran, and neither was his foot injury in college. Try to get the details and then use logic to reason your final opinion. Sounds like you just sorta hear things and then throw out a vague comment on how Torain running somewhat upright might cause you to think he won't last long in the NFL.

People - use your GD brains. You are not Chimps, you're humans, your brain is larger and more developed. Try to use it.

Cito Pelon
12-06-2008, 09:16 PM
Hillis is a stud. The O staff better be smart enough to use him. This is obviously a good O that can be good for 4-6 years. Hillis should be a big part of it along with Royal, Marshall, Scheff, Graham, Cutler and the O-line. This looks like a solid O for the next 4 years at least, and Hillis sure looks to me like an integral.

Popps
12-06-2008, 11:00 PM
Bell had as little success as is humanly possible in this system.

Again, he had production. When it stopped, he was released. Fairly simple scenario.

B
As fo Hillis getting the carries, apparently you've missed the news that Shanahan does not have another single runner.

Really? Pope looked pretty good when he got carries. There are numerous free agents out there. We have a practice squad. Gosh, I wonder why Shanahan gave Hills 22 carries against the #3 run D in the league?? OOOOOOhhhhh I know, because he's averaging 5 yards a carry and ran the **** over them. That's right.


I use Selvin merely to point out that Hillis's production is ho hum as far as RBs go in Denver. 100 yards receiving out of the FB slot is not, and the hands he possesses.


That's a great example of solely using numbers when you don't really understand what you're looking at. Even when Selvin WAS healthy, Shanahan was splitting his carries. He couldn't even beat out Hall or Pittman.

Unless of course we rewind to your previous darling in Tatum. .

Oh, I absolutely loved Bell's skills coming out of school and loved his early production. So did Shanahan. Is that some kind of news story for you? You understand that's how most people felt, right? I had absolutely no problem with his release when he stopped performing. So, whatever argument you think you have here is void.


But if you want to try, yet again, to argue that a square peg is a better fit in a round hole, be my guest. If you want to put a little dough on Hillis being the starting RB in week 1 next year, let's talk.

Square peg? Yea, as long as that square peg is averaging 5 yards a carry and is clearly the best option for our offense, he'll be starting. Put money on it? Are you crazy? Shanahan sent Drouhgns packing despite excellent production. Shanahan signed Travis Henry. Why would I put money on someone that unpredictable?

Again, that's not an argument. You have none, so you're playing diversionary games.

Hillis gives us the best chance to win the rest of this year as a running back, and potentially even beyond that. End of story.

TomServo
12-07-2008, 12:44 AM
geez, portis would rock and help this team. but hes a clown and how many playoff games has he helped the redskins win?
portis's dumbass defending of m vick showed me all the character i needed.
woulda coulda shoulda.. dont want him.

chrisp
12-07-2008, 03:08 AM
I think that the main problem with comparing Hillis to Droughns and Anderson is that back then, the offense was all about the run. You could appreciate their chain-moving capabilities (especially Anderson) but you also felt that they lacked that real big-play potential.

With Hillis, he's operating in a context whereby the passing game has come alive and is generating big-plays on a frequent basis. I can't help but feel then, that lack of real breakaway speed or big-play potential isn't the same issue it might have been.

Then you add to that the fact that Hillis is a better reciever (and all-round athelete) than either of those guys, there's an even stronger case for making him the starter.

How-evurrr, its still far, far too early to start anointing this guy. I appreciate that he seems to show the steel and toughness that our offense needs, but you have to do ti consistently for a period of time. Hillis will have games, as every RB does, where he can't get anything going. See how you feel about him after that. You have to look at the whole picture over a period of time, not just the highlight reel.

Popps
12-07-2008, 03:19 AM
I think that the main problem with comparing Hillis to Droughns and Anderson is that back then, the offense was all about the run. You could appreciate their chain-moving capabilities (especially Anderson) but you also felt that they lacked that real big-play potential.

With Hillis, he's operating in a context whereby the passing game has come alive and is generating big-plays on a frequent basis. I can't help but feel then, that lack of real breakaway speed or big-play potential isn't the same issue it might have been.

Then you add to that the fact that Hillis is a better reciever (and all-round athelete) than either of those guys, there's an even stronger case for making him the starter.

How-evurrr, its still far, far too early to start anointing this guy. I appreciate that he seems to show the steel and toughness that our offense needs, but you have to do ti consistently for a period of time. Hillis will have games, as every RB does, where he can't get anything going. See how you feel about him after that. You have to look at the whole picture over a period of time, not just the highlight reel.

Rep. Excellent.

footstepsfrom#27
12-07-2008, 03:59 AM
I think that the main problem with comparing Hillis to Droughns and Anderson is that back then, the offense was all about the run. You could appreciate their chain-moving capabilities (especially Anderson) but you also felt that they lacked that real big-play potential.

With Hillis, he's operating in a context whereby the passing game has come alive and is generating big-plays on a frequent basis. I can't help but feel then, that lack of real breakaway speed or big-play potential isn't the same issue it might have been.

Then you add to that the fact that Hillis is a better reciever (and all-round athelete) than either of those guys, there's an even stronger case for making him the starter.

How-evurrr, its still far, far too early to start anointing this guy. I appreciate that he seems to show the steel and toughness that our offense needs, but you have to do ti consistently for a period of time. Hillis will have games, as every RB does, where he can't get anything going. See how you feel about him after that. You have to look at the whole picture over a period of time, not just the highlight reel.
Hillis has been one of the bright spots this year...I love this guy...as a FULLBACK, where he can be one of the best in the league.

I think some people feel about Hillis the way they did about Matt Lepsis last year...that he's "good enough" to get the job done. Now that we have Clady, it's obvious what we were missing and nobody would say otherwise. I don't want good enough...I want the next TD running the ball for this team. I want 8 in the box with fear in their eyes because they know it's only a matter of time before Cutler's arm starts shredding them with big plays. I want this running game to return to the days of dominance where we imposed our will on teams. Elway had TD...Cutler deserves one too.

KC's run D sucks...Hillis should go off today for 100+... :manesmack But I want to see what the kid has when we play the Steelers or Ravens.

Dedhed
12-07-2008, 07:55 AM
Again, he had production. When it stopped, he was released. Fairly simple scenario. Funny how the end of his production coincided with asking him to play a role he wasn't suited for, huh? I said all along Tatum had a place on this team as a spot back, you cried for a year to give him the starting job and it marked the end of him. Square peg.



Really? Pope looked pretty good when he got carries. There are numerous free agents out there. We have a practice squad. Gosh, I wonder why Shanahan gave Hills 22 carries against the #3 run D in the league?? OOOOOOhhhhh I know, because he's averaging 5 yards a carry and ran the **** over them. That's right. Have you seen me once argue that Hillis is not the best RB we have on the roster. The answer is no BTW.




That's a great example of solely using numbers when you don't really understand what you're looking at. Even when Selvin WAS healthy, Shanahan was splitting his carries. He couldn't even beat out Hall or Pittman. Shanahan was splitting his carries because he knows that Young, like Tatum, isn't a guy who can take the pounding.



Oh, I absolutely loved Bell's skills coming out of school and loved his early production. So did Shanahan. Is that some kind of news story for you? You understand that's how most people felt, right? I had absolutely no problem with his release when he stopped performing. So, whatever argument you think you have here is void. Again, he stopped performing when Shanahan gave him the shot you had been crying for. You refused to look at the reality of the situation, and just opined about the fact that Bell had the speed to take it to the house any time he touched the ball.

It's no different now with Hillis, you're simply opining about a different characteristic of his game; that he punishes defenders.



Square peg? Yea, as long as that square peg is averaging 5 yards a carry and is clearly the best option for our offense, he'll be starting. Put money on it? Are you crazy? Shanahan sent Drouhgns packing despite excellent production. Shanahan signed Travis Henry. Why would I put money on someone that unpredictable?

Again, that's not an argument. You have none, so you're playing diversionary games.

Hillis gives us the best chance to win the rest of this year as a running back, and potentially even beyond that. End of story.I haven't once argued that Hillis isn't the starter for the rest of the year. We have no choice. But to say that his performance in a single game should preclude us from going after RBs in FA and in the draft is just day one stupid.

His production as a RB is way too easy to replace when you consider what he adds to this team as a FB. He's got the potential to be a 1,000 yard rusher as a RB, he's got the potential to be one of the most dangerous weapons in football as a FB.

Old Dude
12-07-2008, 08:08 AM
Given the rate at which our tailbacks have gone down this year, I wouldn't want to jinx Hillis by projecting him beyond his next carry.

Knock on wood guys.

elsid13
12-07-2008, 08:14 AM
Given the rate at which our tailbacks have gone down this year, I wouldn't want to jinx Hillis by projecting him beyond his next carry.

Knock on wood guys.

Quite we are way to crowning him as the greatest running back ever. :wiggle:

TheReverend
12-07-2008, 08:43 AM
This thread is gonna erupt one way or another after the game today... cannot wait to read this at work tomorrow.

Dedhed
12-07-2008, 09:34 AM
This thread is gonna erupt one way or another after the game today... cannot wait to read this at work tomorrow.

Only because people on both ends will over react. The dude has played 2 games as a feature back, people need to chill.

Popps
12-07-2008, 12:50 PM
Funny how the end of his production coincided with asking him to play a role he wasn't suited for, huh? I said all along Tatum had a place on this team as a spot back, you cried for a year to give him the starting job and it marked the end of him. Square peg.

Ummm... yea, not true. I was thrilled with the 1/2 punch of Anderson/Bell.
Were there times that Bell looked better taking more carries? Sure. Is that some kind of "burn" you have anyone? No.

Again, to completely base your argument for Hillis on a flat-out lie is just sad. Everyone here knows where I stood/stand on Tatum Bell. I'm not sure why your little fantasy excites you so much, but it's incorrect, dull and irrelevant.


Have you seen me once argue that Hillis is not the best RB we have on the roster. The answer is no BTW.
.

Nah, you've just made baseless assumptions that he needs to be made "more rare" (LOL!) to be more effective. Okee dokey.


Shanahan was splitting his carries because he knows that Young, like Tatum, isn't a guy who can take the pounding.
.

Yea, and Young's just not that great. He doesn't hit the hole hard and can't even stay healthy. Like your imaginary fantasy about Tatum Bell, it's irrelevant.


His production as a RB is way too easy to replace when you consider what he adds to this team as a FB.

Again, I'm just guessing maybe you don't watch the Denver Broncos? Maybe you read stats at ESPN.com and sort of base your arguments off of that?

The Broncos have not had a fullback in a significantly productive role since Griffith, and he was still more of a pure FB. So, you can create your Madden 09 at home on your computer.

In the meanwhile, the rest of us here in reality will expect Hillis to be the most productive back for this team going forward.

Will Hillis play fullback again? Sure. Perhaps. Right now, there's no one that can run the ball more effectively and Shanahan just may decide that he should continue to see carries.

So, I don't think anyone is quite sure what your "point" is, but you may as well drop it, as it doesn't appear you have one.

worm
12-07-2008, 02:45 PM
He does a GREAT Mile High Salute!

Popps
12-07-2008, 03:33 PM
Only because people on both ends will over react. The dude has played 2 games as a feature back, people need to chill.

Rest easy, boss. Hillis is out. You got your wish... back to 1 and 2 yard gains on every running play. You must be relieved.

BioCore
12-07-2008, 03:42 PM
Give Tatum a chance, he has the potential to break the big one which even the biggest Hillis man will admit he can't do

Hopefully he'll be good to go next week however, fast emerging as a great player for us

Popps
12-07-2008, 03:53 PM
Bell may break one... the problem is, it's.... 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 2, 4, 2, 1, 35.

Selvin Young-style.

Notice how our drive just stalled out there? Thank the 1 yard runs by Bell.

MplsBronco
12-07-2008, 05:07 PM
Popps is so right on this one. Anyone that can't see Hillis' talent as a RB is a damn fool. No run game the second half except for one run. Hillis abuses defenses and gives this team the toughness it lacks. Hopefully he is okay but he is best RB I have seen on this team this year, without doubt!

Old Dude
12-08-2008, 08:01 AM
Given the rate at which our tailbacks have gone down this year, I wouldn't want to jinx Hillis by projecting him beyond his next carry.

Knock on wood guys.

Apparently, there wasn't enough knocking.

Hogan11
12-08-2008, 08:05 AM
Maybe the thread can be retitled to "Is Hillis the best injured Broncos RB since Portis"

epicSocialism4tw
12-08-2008, 08:14 AM
Bell may break one... the problem is, it's.... 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 2, 4, 2, 1, 35.

Selvin Young-style.

Notice how our drive just stalled out there? Thank the 1 yard runs by Bell.

Bell is the worst at running right into the back of the guard and crumpling over in a heap. Its like the back of Hamilton's jersey has some kind of surfactant in it that destroys all of the hydrophobic associations in Tatum's body.

Bronco Yoda
12-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Bell is the worst at running right into the back of the guard and crumpling over in a heap. Its like the back of Hamilton's jersey has some kind of surfactant in it that destroys all of the hydrophobic associations in Tatum's body.

Now that's a word you don't see every day in convo.

Bell = zwitterion

epicSocialism4tw
12-08-2008, 12:05 PM
Now that's a word you don't see every day in convo.

Bell = zwitterion

:thumbsup:

bronco militia
12-08-2008, 12:34 PM
http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL637/2498345/6660043/346388356.jpg

hey...sombody sacrifice a chicken or something. We need Hillis in some form or fashion in 2008. Watching Tinker Bell slam into blockers and would be tacklers is ****ing maddening!!!!!!!!!!!!

bombay
12-08-2008, 12:51 PM
Hillis has the body and speed to evolve into a John Riggins type back.

I wouldn't mind that.

Popps
12-08-2008, 12:58 PM
Hillis has the body and speed to evolve into a John Riggins type back.

I wouldn't mind that.

Well, the debates can end... at this point. But, as we saw in the 2nd half Sunday, Hillis brought something back to this offense we hadn't had since Mike Anderson.

We need a guy who can run 15 (minimum) times a game and bang out 4-6 yards on first down. Hillis could, and teams HAD to respect the run.

Tatum Bell/Selvin Young can't... and hence teams don't have to respect the run.

Get Pope in there and see what he's got. He looked good against ATL. I'm going to go back and look at the Tivo tonight and refresh myself on how he ran.

bombay
12-08-2008, 01:02 PM
Well, the debates can end... at this point. But, as we saw in the 2nd half Sunday, Hillis brought something back to this offense we hadn't had since Mike Anderson.

We need a guy who can run 15 (minimum) times a game and bang out 4-6 yards on first down. Hillis could, and teams HAD to respect the run.

Tatum Bell/Selvin Young can't... and hence teams don't have to respect the run.

Get Pope in there and see what he's got. He looked good against ATL. I'm going to go back and look at the Tivo tonight and refresh myself on how he ran.

Yeah. I think you've got a pretty good handle on what Hillis brings.

Pope looked good in his limited opportunity. I'm holding on to some optimisn that between he, Boyd, and small doses of Bell the running game is good enough. Would have been nice to have Hillis for the playoffs, but oh well.

DarkHorse
12-08-2008, 02:50 PM
Scrapped my Hillis video :welcome:

db56
12-08-2008, 07:49 PM
Awesome. I agree.



Don't be a boob like so many others. Can't you figure it out? Torain did not get hurt because of how he ran. His legs were twisted into a pretzel at the bottom of a pile up after the play was over. His elbow injury also had nothing to do with how he ran, and neither was his foot injury in college. Try to get the details and then use logic to reason your final opinion. Sounds like you just sorta hear things and then throw out a vague comment on how Torain running somewhat upright might cause you to think he won't last long in the NFL.

People - use your GD brains. You are not Chimps, you're humans, your brain is larger and more developed. Try to use it.

Dude, I'm not a chimp, I'm a very intellegent human being with above average eye sight. I saw the way he carried the ball with my own eyes, upright, not compact like Hillis does, look at the tape. big bruising, upright runners dont last very long in this league unless the learn how to get small in the hole to absorb blows, just a fact.

Sorry it took so long for me to defend my intellegence, but I have better things to do than make an ass out of myself picking apart other peoples educated opinions.

DBroncos4life
12-08-2008, 07:56 PM
Not the most talented but he is good. MoC could have been the most talented guy we drafted since then, but he was a bum.

Taco John
12-16-2009, 10:08 PM
This thread is awesome!

strafen
12-16-2009, 10:11 PM
Umm, no.

He's "not a RB?" What team are you watching?

We do not need to create cute situations for Hillis. We do not need him to be "flexible." When you say he needs to "do his thing," he is. He's running the **** over people and doing it more effectively than any back we've plugged in there since Mike Anderson.

Do we need someone to share carries? Sure, his running style is such that he may wear down. Do we need to move him to fullback and play cute games with him? **** no. This guy gains yards after contact. He's deceptively fast, has above average vision, can make the cutback and has an excellent ypc average.

Yes, he's also a good athlete and has great hands. So, yes... he can run routes, catch passes, whatever. But, I'm bloody-sick of people making this fantasy-land argument that he needs to be made into some sort of novelty-back or decoy so we can plug in some sub-par back like Selvin Young.

I mean, are people just not paying attention? He's averaging 5 yards per carry. Until that changes, let's kill the talk of how we need to line him up at wide receiver or have him returning kicks, or directing traffic into the stadium on Sundays. This guy makes the offense work when he's lined up at RB. Leave it alone.

Epic!

strafen
12-16-2009, 10:12 PM
He ran the pitch for 9 yards. He's the only back since TD that can run thru tackles.Awesome! :thumbsup:

strafen
12-16-2009, 10:14 PM
i like how he gives us the 2nd and 6 type setup instead of the 2nd and 12 or 2nd and 10 setups we were getting with our smaller backs.....

we have Torain coming back next year to split carries with Hillis with Young as a change of pace back...

NO RUNNING BACK EARLY IN THE DRAFT NEXT YEAR...work on the defenseThey didn't listen.... :D

lex
12-16-2009, 10:16 PM
What a shame. They should have used him more this year.

strafen
12-16-2009, 10:17 PM
Again, there's no need to assume he's a Mike Alstott type at this point. Mike Alstott couldn't catch passes like a tight end. Alstott couldn't bust off three 20 yard runs in a game. Alstott didn't put up RB numbers... Hillis HAS.

I can't quite wrap my head around why people here want to force this guy out of a role where he's been wildly productive.Taco man, this is killing me! ROFL!

TDmvp
12-16-2009, 10:17 PM
http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forums/upfiles/140290/A42BDFDDB9064B48929A787A6A4E32B5.jpg

strafen
12-16-2009, 10:20 PM
The only issue with him may ironically be his size. 6'2" RBs sometimes have trouble staying healthy. I do agree that we should have another capable back, but until I see one on the roster... Hillis should be getting 20 carries a game.

People act as if it's simple to go out and grab the next Walter Payton. We've been subbing out RBs since TD left. We've got potentially very productive back in Hillis. He needs to start at running back. The nonsense about moving him to fullback full-time can come into play when there's someone on the roster who's better than he is.

Until then, our offense has looked the most efficient when he's back there taking the bulk of the carries.

Having a productive running game averaging 5 yards a carry and dictating the tempo of games isn't a "problem" we need to fix. Hillis' success isn't the same as Woodyard playing well. Hillis brought production to a position where there was none. End of story.

Amen, Popps!

Rock Chalk
12-16-2009, 10:24 PM
Amen, Popps!

You know the problem with the quote you quoted is that Popps mentions something else in there that needs to be paid attention to.

Woodyard played well last year too.

Woodyard, in more action this year, has not played well.

The defense changed.

But so did the offense.

Im ****ing sorry if you stupid dip****s dont see that Hillis does not fit in the plans for the future of this team.

I'd bet money that he isnt with us next year and Id bet even mroe money that Hillis isn't in the NFL in 3 years.

You know why? Because LOTS of RBs looked good under Shanahan's scheme, but they pretty much sucked every where else with FEW exceptions.

Archer81
12-16-2009, 10:29 PM
Amen, Popps!


Settle down sparky.

Popps has never bagged on Hillis physical ability. Clearly he has it. No one on this board wants Hillis gone, because WHEN it clicks for him the Bronco backfield will be elite. The question raised is why is it taking him so long to get it. Until you can provide proof its a consipracy against a Shanahan guy, the prevailing theory will be Hillis is having a hard time digesting the playbook and his assignments and executing them consistently.


:Broncos:

Popps
12-16-2009, 10:32 PM
Epic!

Dragster, did you see the opening post on my thread?

I clearly identify myself as a fan of his, and a guy who saw him as a starter going into the season.

That's what makes his failure to earn reps more disappointing.

Hopefully he'll "rethink his motives" and get the job done.

GreatBronco16
12-16-2009, 10:33 PM
Settle down sparky.

Popps has never bagged on Hillis physical ability. Clearly he has it. No one on this board wants Hillis gone, because WHEN it clicks for him the Bronco backfield will be elite. The question raised is why is it taking him so long to get it. Until you can provide proof its a consipracy against a Shanahan guy, the prevailing theory will be Hillis is having a hard time digesting the playbook and his assignments and executing them consistently.


:Broncos:


No matter how many times you pound it in their head, you just can't fix stupid.

Dedhed
12-16-2009, 10:33 PM
What a shame. They should have used him more this year.
You're too dense for words.

Popps
12-16-2009, 10:34 PM
Settle down sparky.

Popps has never bagged on Hillis physical ability. :

Nope.

Quite the contrary. I was one of the first and loudest to bang the table for him to start over the scrubs we had last season, and it worked out.

Still like the kid.

But, think about who you're dealing with. People like Dragster and Taco can't stay in any sort of real conversation, so they need to blur the issue into "Popps doesn't like Hillis."

Of course, anyone with a brain knows that's not the case. Quite the contrary.

I'm disappointed in him to date... but loves his talents.

strafen
12-16-2009, 10:34 PM
No matter how many times you pound it in their head, you just can't fix stupid.

You've all been owned by the great TJ!

Dedhed
12-16-2009, 10:35 PM
No matter how many times you pound it in their head, you just can't fix stupid.See post #186 as evidence.

Popps
12-16-2009, 10:36 PM
Can we move the conversation back over to the real Hillis thread please.

:)

lex
12-16-2009, 10:38 PM
You're too dense for words.

You need a better grasp of the English language.

Archer81
12-16-2009, 10:38 PM
You've all been owned by the great TJ!


Uhh...ok? All this thread proves is that we are all excited by Hillis' potential...which has consistently been explained in every ridiculous Hillis thread started in the last 4 weeks.

Why does it take injuries to starting RB's for Hillis to get any time? Six backs had to go down before Hillis became the feature back in 2008, and we had to lose both Larsen and Buckhalter against the Colts for him to see the field on offense this past sunday.

The best you can come up with is McDaniels is stubborn and hates Hillis because he was drafted by Mike Shanahan; this has been disproven because other Shanahan guys have become key performers for McDaniels.


:Broncos:

broncocalijohn
12-17-2009, 12:20 AM
......
I like Hillis at RB. Once he gets better at blitz pickup I think we should stick with him there.

.... He showed some things that I would like to see in real games next year if given the chance but Im down for keeping Hillis as our primary RB ala Brandon Jacobs.

I know everyone here wants the Griffith FB but Im not sold that Hillis is that guy. He's decent at blocking but he is by no means a true FB in teh Griffith mold. He is a weapon though and needs to be on the field. With the spread formation, the threat of Hillis Royal Marshall Sheffler Stokely and Graham Denver really does not NEED a FB.

So what that Hillis is white. He's faster than people think and moves piles FORWARD. We do not need a RB to be a homerun hitter. We need the RB to put us in good situations and get tough yardage. The passing game is now where our home runs come from and with an RB like Hillis we can FORCE defenses to pick their poison. Churn out tough yards down the field, get defenses tired throughout the game and burn them late with big plays in the passing game? Whats the problem folks?

Amazing Rock Chalk had all these nice things to say about Hillis and then he turned a 180 on him and hates him. All in one year.

strafen
12-17-2009, 12:24 AM
Amazing Rock Chalk had all these nice things to say about Hillis and then he turned a 180 on him and hates him. All in one year.LOL!
Popps is like that too. What a fans we have, huh?

BroncoBuff
12-17-2009, 02:33 AM
Amazing Rock Chalk had all these nice things to say about Hillis and then he turned a 180 on him and hates him. All in one year.

The 180's on Marshall are even funnier ... couple months ago one of these guys wanted to trade Brandon straight up for Braylon Edwards :~ohyah!:

oubronco
12-17-2009, 07:33 AM
simply amazing talk about retracking

strafen
12-17-2009, 09:01 AM
He ran the pitch for 9 yards. He's the only back since TD that can run thru tackles.

Not bad for a 3rd string RB, 2nd string FB, huh?

strafen
12-17-2009, 09:03 AM
Our offense runs much more effectively when we have a guy who can gain 4-5 yards on first down consistently. That's been the case since TD was here. Mike Anderson was great for that, Droughns... and now Hillis appears to be a chain-mover.There's a conspiracy.
Oh wait. This is last year when you were saying this.

Tombstone RJ
12-17-2009, 09:15 AM
I think my posts about Hillis speak for themselves.

strafen
12-17-2009, 09:18 AM
Someone already did one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSjDe0WDuCg

Funny thing is, this doesn't even include the Jets game, his best as a RB.

Thanks for sharing that video Popps.
Props to you!

That video just goes to show you how quickly all the moreno sniff-ass connection here have forgotten what we're missing in this offense.
This video is what best illustrates what Hillis can do that Moreno is not even close or being able to do.
A guy who can learn an offense well enough to be involved in the passing game, running the ball, ST and blocking while being outstanding while doing it, is not a stupid player.
I'm disturbed by the way fans are now turned against Hillis.
Watch the video above.
Tell me if we have anybody right now other than Marshall capable of making plays like that.
Unbelievable.
Let's keep Hillis on the bench, and let's keep playing Moreno. He's our best back hands down, right?
Watch thast video, and don't act like Popps to come up with some BS excuse that perhaps that video was doctored or that Moreno has been doing better than that. (rolleyes)

vancejohnson82
12-17-2009, 09:20 AM
this thread proves that there is no conspiracy amongst the "Anti-Hillis" fans...we all love the guys ability

but we are 8-5....and I trust the guy that got us there...not some fan with an agenda and a keyboard

strafen
12-17-2009, 09:52 AM
this thread proves that there is no conspiracy amongst the "Anti-Hillis" fans...we all love the guys ability

but we are 8-5....and I trust the guy that got us there...not some fan with an agenda and a keyboard

I would trust a lucky play against cincy, playing the raiders, the browns and the chiefs for being 8-5. That's what got us there.
Beautiful 6-0 start.
Enough to get some bandwagon fans forgive McD for the Cutler debacle that made so many fans here suicidal and probably wanted to go out and murder McDaniels
Now that we hit the tough part of the schedule, we're 2-5. Yup that's correct we've won 2 of the last 7 games.

Insert the excuses already handy here by delusional fans, like: nobody expected us to win more than 3 games. Nobody expected us to make the play-offs. 8 wins is more than I thought we would win, yadah, yadah, yadah,....

Stats don't lie. When you are amongst the bottom of the pile in the NFL in RZ scoring, you must do something about it.
That's why fans like me "with an agenda and a keyboard" want McDaniels to get his head out of his ass and play Hillis in RZ situations and give him more carries as he should've done all season long.
Numbers don't lie, and our 2-5 record in the last 7 games reflects that.
You've got to have your players make plays and step up when we play the elite teams in the NFL. If you have players that have not shown that ability, it's time for changes.
Why keep sticking with what's clearly not working?

Forgive me for being a rational fan who looks out for the best interest of the team.
Forgive me if by me pointing out to you that Moreno has been an imposter offends you
Forgive me if wanting to see Hillis get some meaningful carries offends you, because that means your boy Moreno won't be on the field for you to drool over his stumbleness, and mediocre performance.
Forgive me if I'm not ok with all the decisions a 33-year old rookie NFL headcoach makes.
Forgive me if I rather wait and see MccDaniels' achievements later on in his career than trying to judge him right now for getting 8 wins so far.
Forgive me if what I've said so far piss you off.

Taco John
12-17-2009, 10:01 AM
I think that it's an irrational over-reach to call Moreno an imposter.

vancejohnson82
12-17-2009, 10:03 AM
I would trust a lucky play against cincy, playing the raiders, the browns and the chiefs for being 8-5. That's what got us there.
Beautiful 6-0 start.
Enough to get some bandwagon fans forgive McD for the Cutler debacle that made so many fans here suicidal and probably wanted to go out and murder McDaniels
Now that we hit the tough part of the schedule, we're 2-5. Yup that's correct we've won 2 of the last 7 games.

Insert the excuses already handy here by delusional fans, like: nobody expected us to win more than 3 games. Nobody expected us to make the play-offs. 8 wins is more than I thought we would win, yadah, yadah, yadah,....

Stats don't lie. When you are amongst the bottom of the pile in the NFL in RZ scoring, you must do something about it.
That's why fans like me "with an agenda and a keyboard" want McDaniels to get his head out of his ass and play Hillis in RZ situations and give him more carries as he should've done all season long.
Numbers don't lie, and our 2-5 record in the last 7 games reflects that.
You've got to have your players make plays and step up when we play the elite teams in the NFL. If you have players that have not shown that ability, it's time for changes.
Why keep sticking with what's clearly not working?

Forgive me for being a rational fan who looks out for the best interest of the team.
Forgive me if by me pointing out to you that Moreno has been an imposter offends you
Forgive me if wanting to see Hillis get some meaningful carries offends you, because that means your boy Moreno won't be on the field for you to drool over his stumbleness, and mediocre performance.
Forgive me if I'm not ok with all the decisions a 33-year old rookie NFL headcoach makes.
Forgive me if I rather wait and see MccDaniels' achievements later on in his career than trying to judge him right now for getting 8 wins so far.
Forgive me if what I've said so far piss you off.

cue the violin....

strafen
12-17-2009, 10:07 AM
I think that it's an irrational over-reach to call Moreno an imposter.

Yeah, I've been a little harsh on the guy, but he's not been what he was "supposed" to be.
I think he came here with an air of sensationalism that people were quick to jump in his bandwagon. That's why despite his mediocre sub-par performance this year, people are still seeing things that they belive were the OL fault, or the FB not blocking well for him.
It's the Cutler can do no wrong syndrome all over again...

I was looking at his college career stats, but I could only find stats for two years.
Did we draft a RB with the 12th pick that has only played 2 years in college?
Please tell me it ain't so.

Popps
12-17-2009, 10:10 AM
LOL!
Popps is like that too. What a fans we have, huh?

Once again, I realize you have zero foundation for your argument.

So, I understand that you need me to hate Hillis.

Problem is, I don't. I'm a fan. I've probably stated that up to 40 times in the other Hillis thread.

I think he's talented and have nothing but hope that he'll figure things and work his way into more reps.



But, you keep pushing that myth that "people don't like him," Dragster. It's all you've got. You've yet to prove one word of your conspiracy theory... so I suppose flat-out inventing nonsense is all you have.

strafen
12-17-2009, 10:13 AM
Once again, I realize you have zero foundation for your argument.

So, I understand that you need me to hate Hillis.

Problem is, I don't. I'm a fan. I've probably stated that up to 40 times in the other Hillis thread.

I think he's talented and have nothing but hope that he'll figure things and work his way into more reps.



But, you keep pushing that myth that "people don't like him," Dragster. It's all you've got. You've yet to prove one word of your conspiracy theory... so I suppose flat-out inventing nonsense is all you have.Dang Popps!!!
I thougtht for sure you weren't going to mention the word conspiracy for a change this time.
You disappointed me, man.

~Crash~
12-17-2009, 10:16 AM
Umm, no.

He's "not a RB?" What team are you watching?

We do not need to create cute situations for Hillis. We do not need him to be "flexible." When you say he needs to "do his thing," he is. He's running the **** over people and doing it more effectively than any back we've plugged in there since Mike Anderson.

Do we need someone to share carries? Sure, his running style is such that he may wear down. Do we need to move him to fullback and play cute games with him? **** no. This guy gains yards after contact. He's deceptively fast, has above average vision, can make the cutback and has an excellent ypc average.

Yes, he's also a good athlete and has great hands. So, yes... he can run routes, catch passes, whatever. But, I'm bloody-sick of people making this fantasy-land argument that he needs to be made into some sort of novelty-back or decoy so we can plug in some sub-par back like Selvin Young.

I mean, are people just not paying attention? He's averaging 5 yards per carry. Until that changes, let's kill the talk of how we need to line him up at wide receiver or have him returning kicks, or directing traffic into the stadium on Sundays. This guy makes the offense work when he's lined up at RB. Leave it alone.

hmmm

MplsBronco
12-17-2009, 10:23 AM
[QUOTE=dragster69;2679459]I would trust a lucky play against cincy, playing the raiders, the browns and the chiefs for being 8-5. That's what got us there.
Beautiful 6-0 start.
Enough to get some bandwagon fans forgive McD for the Cutler debacle that made so many fans here suicidal and probably wanted to go out and murder McDaniels
Now that we hit the tough part of the schedule, we're 2-5. Yup that's correct we've won 2 of the last 7 games.

That's why it's a 16 game season, asswipe! And the meat of the schedule started in Week 4. So we've gone 5-5 during the brutal stretch of the schedule that would have been difficult for any team in the league. Idiot.

Lev Vyvanse
12-17-2009, 10:28 AM
I was looking at his college career stats, but I could only find stats for two years.
Did we draft a RB with the 12th pick that has only played 2 years in college?
Please tell me it ain't so.

He was a redshirt his freshman year.

strafen
12-17-2009, 10:32 AM
That's why it's a 16 game season, asswipe! And the meat of the schedule started in Week 4. So we've gone 5-5 during the brutal stretch of the schedule that would have been difficult for any team in the league. Idiot.I love when I get people here pissed off.
I love to see their low IQ take over and offend people with insults.
Hey nice spin there bud. You're not as dumb a previously thought, still dumb nonetheless.
So, to you is 5-5? I see that looks a heck of a lot better than 2-5, huh?
Lol!. My goodness. Where do we get these idiots. Really. Homerism is a desease. I swear!

The only guarantee so far, is that we will not finish worse than 8-8

Beantown Bronco
12-17-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm disturbed by the way fans are now turned against Hillis.

What's funny about this is the fact that you have nobody to blame but yourself. I've seen three people in the last few days specifically say that they love Hillis, but reading your posts has made them want to hate him and want him off the team.

vancejohnson82
12-17-2009, 10:39 AM
I love when I get people here pissed off.
I love to see their low IQ take over and offend people with insults.
Hey nice spin there bud. You're not as dumb a previously thought, still dumb nonetheless.
So, to you is 5-5? I see that looks a heck of a lot better than 2-5, huh?
Lol!. My goodness. Where do we get these idiots. Really. Homerism is a desease. I swear!

The only guarantee so far, is that we will not finish worse than 8-8

whats with all the talk about IQs on this board? How does having a high IQ have anything to do with your football opinion?

For all I know Drag, you are a brain surgeon....but that wouldn't make me sit back and say "Man, I should listen to him about football"

You haven't made me hate Hillis, but you've sure made me love Moreno a lot more. I hope that kid becomes a 10 time All-Po

MplsBronco
12-17-2009, 10:43 AM
I love when I get people here pissed off.
I love to see their low IQ take over and offend people with insults.
Hey nice spin there bud. You're not as dumb a previously thought, still dumb nonetheless.
So, to you is 5-5? I see that looks a heck of a lot better than 2-5, huh?
Lol!. My goodness. Where do we get these idiots. Really. Homerism is a desease. I swear!

The only guarantee so far, is that we will not finish worse than 8-8

Oh so it's okay for you to cherry pick stats, Einstein? And I am the dumb one? It's okay for you to leave out victories over Dallas, NE and SD? I get sick of fools like you posting negative crap on this board and then trying to promote yourself as so superior to rest of us on the smarts scale. Fact is, this team is in a better spot than when Shanny left but that isn't good enough for people like you. We just pissed a game away against the Colts that we should of won. When was the last time we played the Colts and honestly said we should have won the game?

McD is far from perfect but I am behind him and this team 100%. Go take your unfounded negativity somewhere else and let this team evolve into McD's vision. It ain't going to happen overnight.

strafen
12-17-2009, 10:45 AM
Once again, I realize you have zero foundation for your argument.

So, I understand that you need me to hate Hillis.

Problem is, I don't. I'm a fan. I've probably stated that up to 40 times in the other Hillis thread.

I think he's talented and have nothing but hope that he'll figure things and work his way into more reps.



But, you keep pushing that myth that "people don't like him," Dragster. It's all you've got. You've yet to prove one word of your conspiracy theory... so I suppose flat-out inventing nonsense is all you have.The whole thing and what disturbs me the most, it is NOT that fans hate Hillis or you hate or don't hate Hills, I could care less about that.
What disturbs me greatly is how fans are going out of their way to justify Hillis not playing.
To give McDaniels the benefit of the doubt to make Hillis look like it's his fault for not playing, and that our rookie headcoach has spotted flaws in Hillis that all of the sudden he can't be the player he was last year as seen on the video above- without giving him ample opportunities in the way of more carries per game to prove that.

There has been zero proof demonstrated on the field that Hillis is a liability to our offense for "not" knowing the playbook.
Those things being said are slanderous and with no foundation or whatsoever.
You're all here in the McDaniels bandwagon hardcore, blinded by the fact that Hillis should be given a chance to play more than what he's been given.
That Hillis needs to be on the field. And you are all opposed to that, as long as McDaniels don't play him, McD must know what he's doing. Or is he?

Instead, you are continuously coming up with the most idiotic statements about conspiracy, that Hillis is not smart, that McDaniels and Shanahan were right about Hillis not being start material when he was not slated to be a starter, at least not as RB. All that bull**** that makes no sense you keep on pushing people to buy it.

Why don't we agree that Hillis should have been playing more this year. That Hillis should've been used a lot more against Indy.
Let's see with our own eyes what's up with the guy.
Let's see with our own eyes if the guy is a retard like you and other have said he is.

There's only one way to settle this...Play the man!

strafen
12-17-2009, 10:50 AM
Oh so it's okay for you to cherry pick stats, Einstein? And I am the dumb one? It's okay for you to leave out victories over Dallas, NE and SD? I get sick of fools like you posting negative crap on this board and then trying to promote yourself as so superior to rest of us on the smarts scale. Fact is, this team is in a better spot than when Shanny left but that isn't good enough for people like you. We just pissed a game away against the Colts that we should of won. When was the last time we played the Colts and honestly said we should have won the game?

McD is far from perfect but I am behind him and this team 100%. Go take your unfounded negativity somewhere else and let this team evolve into McD's vision. It ain't going to happen overnight.

Hey, we're 8-5 in the last 13 games...just saying :)

underrated29
12-17-2009, 10:52 AM
dragster- you are crazy.



This is not the same broncos team as last year. You know it, I know it, everyone league wide knows it. Old Mike Shannahan broncos can put Quentin griffin in the lineup and watch him run for 180. We can put Orlandis Gary in the lineup and watch him pump 1500 yards no prob. We can put stevie wonder in the lineup and still watch him go off for 100 yards. We made holes that trucks could drive through.




This year we are not that team, we do not block the same way, we do not call the same plays, we do not run the offense first.

These are facts, not excuses!:

We have also faced many of the top 10 run defenses and overall defenses. We have a brand new scheme
brand new coach
a brand new RB, who also happenes to be a rookie.
We lost our ability to stretch the field deep.
We have a split rep at RB.
We constantly see 8-9 in the box.
We lost our starting RT. (polumbus and hoch fill in nicely though)


You cannot compare apples to oranges. It does not work. Hillis last year, to Knowshon this year, is not a comparable item.


Hillis is a great RB, and I wish he would get more touches, lots more. But Knowshon is a freaking stud and is only going to get better, A LOT BETTER!
He is a rookie and will finish the year close to over 1k yards rush and 7 tds. Those are great numbers, considering all the above i mentioned.

strafen
12-17-2009, 11:09 AM
dragster- you are crazy.



This is not the same broncos team as last year. You know it, I know it, everyone league wide knows it. Old Mike Shannahan broncos can put Quentin griffin in the lineup and watch him run for 180. We can put Orlandis Gary in the lineup and watch him pump 1500 yards no prob. We can put stevie wonder in the lineup and still watch him go off for 100 yards. We made holes that trucks could drive through.




This year we are not that team, we do not block the same way, we do not call the same plays, we do not run the offense first.

These are facts, not excuses!:

We have also faced many of the top 10 run defenses and overall defenses. We have a brand new scheme
brand new coach
a brand new RB, who also happenes to be a rookie.
We lost our ability to stretch the field deep.
We have a split rep at RB.
We constantly see 8-9 in the box.
We lost our starting RT. (polumbus and hoch fill in nicely though)


You cannot compare apples to oranges. It does not work. Hillis last year, to Knowshon this year, is not a comparable item.


Hillis is a great RB, and I wish he would get more touches, lots more. But Knowshon is a freaking stud and is only going to get better, A LOT BETTER!
He is a rookie and will finish the year close to over 1k yards rush and 7 tds. Those are great numbers, considering all the above i mentioned.Moreno was a stud in college. He's far from that in the NFL.

While it's a different system than we had last year, I don't see Hillis running style to be a problem on this offense.
We saw a flash in the KC game that he's still the runner we've saw last year, -garbage time or not- KC wasn't playing like it was garbage time, it was garbage time for us, but not for their defense.

Now, you cannot be serious by saying Moreno is getting better.
Does he have potential. I think he does, or better have to justify a 12th overall selection.
1000 yards in a season for a full-time RB is pedestrian at best. 1000 yards in a season equates to 62.5 yards a game, and there's not guarantee Moreno will break 1000 yards this season.
The guy has not been able to break 100-yard game yet, and we've played the best and the worst of the NFL.

I'm not ready to crown him yet. I just don't like what I've seen of him so far.
I wish I can be optimist and be able to see past facts, stats, and numbers, but unfortunately, I owe it to myself to look at numbers

lex
12-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Moreno was a stud in college. He's far from that in the NFL.

While it's a different system than we had last year, I don't see Hillis running style to be a problem on this offense.
We saw a flash in the KC game that he's still the runner we've saw last year, -garbage time or not- KC wasn't playing like it was garbage time, it was garbage time for us, but not for their defense.

Now, you cannot be serious by saying Moreno is getting better.
Does he have potential. I think he does, or better have to justify a 12th overall selection.
1000 yards in a season for a full-time RB is pedestrian at best. 1000 yards in a season equates to 62.5 yards a game, and there's not guarantee Moreno will break 1000 yards this season.
The guy has not been able to break 100-yard game yet, and we've played the best and the worst of the NFL.

I'm not ready to crown him yet. I just don't like what I've seen of him so far.
I wish I can be optimist and be able to see past facts, stats, and numbers, but unfortunately, I owe it to myself to look at numbers

In Moreno's defense, it may not all be him. He was coming off an injury at the beginning of the year when they had a crack at the Browns and Raiders. It doesnt seem like Moreno runs outside as much as Buckhalter and he has been running inside against some of the better defenses with a bad LG at the insistence of his coach. Having said that, there have been times where it seemed like Moreno goes to the ground more than he should. And for someone who ran with wiggle in college, he hasnt really made that many people miss.

underrated29
12-17-2009, 11:27 AM
Hillis def needs more reps, his running style doesnt have anything to do with that i think. I just think its jmfmd that refuses to play him.

But hillis only has power on moreno, nothing else.

How many runners this year are going to be over 1k?

9 currently are- i predict another 4 will be there. Here are the 9 over the 1k yard

chris johnson-1626
sjax-1271
ap-1200
thomas jones-1167
mjd-1136
deangelo-1104
ryan grant-1068
benson-1065
ray rice-1041

Those are some good backs, all besides CJ are between 1k and 1200---I suppose thats pretty pedestrian though, right.

the 4 players i suspect will get to the 1k marker that currently are not:

Ricky williams-975
mendenhall-940
Mike Turner-864
Knowshon-837

again, another solid list of names, most of whom do not have a time share at RB either.

So if Knowshon is pedestrian, then what about these RB's who wont eclipse the 1k marker that are less than knowshon?

gore
addai
kevin smith
brandon jacobs
pierre thomas
marion barber
matt forte
jon stewart
LT
Portis
marshawn lynch
steve slaton
cadillac williams
julius jones
felix jones
lawerence maroney
willis mcgahee
reggie bush



None of these guys should break the 1k marker, unless they blow up huge. Surely, you think Knowshon is better than these guys right? Dont you?

I am guessing you dont. problem is, Knowhons stats show better and he is a rook plus all that other stuff going against him that i listed in the post above.


He is getting better and I promise you, he will be close to 1500 next year. Knowshon is the guy i predicted we would take and I can see what goods he has.

This is not about slamming hillis, cuz i love the dude and like you feel he needs more reps, lots more. But Knowshon will be a top 5 RB next year. He is that good.

DBroncos4life
12-17-2009, 12:22 PM
Hillis def needs more reps, his running style doesnt have anything to do with that i think. I just think its jmfmd that refuses to play him.

But hillis only has power on moreno, nothing else.

How many runners this year are going to be over 1k?

9 currently are- i predict another 4 will be there. Here are the 9 over the 1k yard

chris johnson-1626
sjax-1271
ap-1200
thomas jones-1167
mjd-1136
deangelo-1104
ryan grant-1068
benson-1065
ray rice-1041

Those are some good backs, all besides CJ are between 1k and 1200---I suppose thats pretty pedestrian though, right.

the 4 players i suspect will get to the 1k marker that currently are not:

Ricky williams-975
mendenhall-940
Mike Turner-864
Knowshon-837

again, another solid list of names, most of whom do not have a time share at RB either.

So if Knowshon is pedestrian, then what about these RB's who wont eclipse the 1k marker that are less than knowshon?

gore
addai
kevin smith
brandon jacobs
pierre thomas
marion barber
matt forte
jon stewart
LT
Portis
marshawn lynch
steve slaton
cadillac williams
julius jones
felix jones
lawerence maroney
willis mcgahee
reggie bush



None of these guys should break the 1k marker, unless they blow up huge. Surely, you think Knowshon is better than these guys right? Dont you?

I am guessing you dont. problem is, Knowhons stats show better and he is a rook plus all that other stuff going against him that i listed in the post above.


He is getting better and I promise you, he will be close to 1500 next year. Knowshon is the guy i predicted we would take and I can see what goods he has.

This is not about slamming hillis, cuz i love the dude and like you feel he needs more reps, lots more. But Knowshon will be a top 5 RB next year. He is that good.

LOL Gore has two less yards then Knowshon and he has missed a few weeks and you think that he isn't going to get to a 1000 yards but Knowshon will? There is three weeks left a several of those RBs are less then 300 yards away from 1000.

underrated29
12-17-2009, 01:32 PM
Dont know how i missed gores yards. I could have sworn he was in the 700 when i looked. Obviously not. He should also eclpise the 1k marker. He can do it.


But several of those other, no i dont. They have tough schedules and will likely be passing not running for yards. I dont see them getting it.


And didnt knowshon also miss games with injury as did gore?

rastaman
12-17-2009, 02:25 PM
LOL!
Popps is like that too. What a fans we have, huh?

Its obvious we have "Fair Weather" player supporting fans on the OM. Its how they roll. They have split a "Cybill" personality. You just never know when hatred/doubt for a player will be unleashed. :approve:

vancejohnson82
12-17-2009, 02:36 PM
Its obvious we have "Fair Weather" player supporting fans on the OM. Its how they roll. They have split a "Cybill" personality. You just never know when hatred/doubt for a player will be unleashed. :approve:

because unlike you and your little partner there the rest of the board is obsessed with the team

not with how many yards one player gets..

not with how many reps a player gets..

that's the way it is when you are the fan of a TEAM and not a PLAYER....we went through this offseason with Cutler and it looks like a small number (2 people) are willing to throw the team's success on the backburner in favor of complaining about a player

GeniusatWork
12-17-2009, 02:51 PM
this thread proves that there is no conspiracy amongst the "Anti-Hillis" fans...we all love the guys ability

but we are 8-5....and I trust the guy that got us there...not some fan with an agenda and a keyboard

Not to mention Bob Turner maight have a big say in who is playing.

I spose Josh could be saying, No, No Turner, Moreno and Buck has to have all the carries. But I think it is more likely they all decide together what the best way to win is.

They could get more creative in the offense using Hillis in some pass patterns, and maybe they will.

UberBroncoMan
12-17-2009, 03:12 PM
I swear this forum is filled with necrophiliacs lol.

rastaman
12-17-2009, 03:33 PM
because unlike you and your little partner there the rest of the board is obsessed with the team

not with how many yards one player gets..

not with how many reps a player gets..

that's the way it is when you are the fan of a TEAM and not a PLAYER....we went through this offseason with Cutler and it looks like a small number (2 people) are willing to throw the team's success on the backburner in favor of complaining about a player

Yo Vance "Get Over Yourself Dude"....don't get upset, you guys are who you are! Just own up to it. By the way, there are various levels or categories of fans on the OM but we are all fans nonetheless.

You have free will to advocate and give your opinion as you have with your post above on what a fan is. But remember some of us Fans have lives outside of behaving like rabid overly obsessed fans.

I have no problem with the type of fans you and your ilk are.....the problem I have is how you believe/think b/c you are the ultimate TEAM FIRST OVERLY OBSESSIVE FAN, this gives you the license or cart Blanche to behave as radical as you do while insulting fans who don't share your views or values on what makes a Bronco Fan.

As for Cutler.....sure he's gone and never coming back. But folks like you use your "TEAM-first-FAN" obsession as an excuse or as a license to spew your hatred and ill-will toward him and attack, insult any fan that doesn't view Cutler the same way with such great joy. To be honest its a bit disturbing but hey you are who you are.

Take A Load Off Dude.....and quit taking being a Bronco Fan so seriously. After all life is too short to behave OBSESSIVELY!:peace:

Popps
12-17-2009, 04:01 PM
and quit taking being a Bronco Fan so seriously. After all life is too short to behave OBSESSIVELY!:peace:

Says the guy with 4000 posts claiming our back-up fullback is the target of a massive conspiracy.

strafen
12-17-2009, 06:23 PM
Oh so it's okay for you to cherry pick stats, Einstein? And I am the dumb one? It's okay for you to leave out victories over Dallas, NE and SD? I get sick of fools like you posting negative crap on this board and then trying to promote yourself as so superior to rest of us on the smarts scale. Fact is, this team is in a better spot than when Shanny left but that isn't good enough for people like you. We just pissed a game away against the Colts that we should of won. When was the last time we played the Colts and honestly said we should have won the game?

McD is far from perfect but I am behind him and this team 100%. Go take your unfounded negativity somewhere else and let this team evolve into McD's vision. It ain't going to happen overnight.I'm not cherry picking stats in the way you thought I was...
I simply said that after a 6-0 start we've gone 2-5. When you add those two together you come up with 13 games. I included the victories against Dallas, NE and San Diego by mentioning our 6-0 record.
The point was that our lack of scoring in the RZ has come back to reflect on our 2-5 record the last 7 games...

rastaman
12-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Says the guy with 4000 posts claiming our back-up fullback is the target of a massive conspiracy.

Hi Homer!:~ohyah!:

Inkana7
12-17-2009, 07:26 PM
Putting the nonsensical ramblings aside, wtf is with the random smileys in every post you crazy mother****er?

rastaman
12-17-2009, 07:33 PM
Putting the nonsensical ramblings aside, wtf is with the random smileys in every post you crazy mother****er?

Takes a mother****er to know a mother****er!

rastaman
12-17-2009, 07:36 PM
Says the guy with 4000 posts claiming our back-up fullback is the target of a massive conspiracy.

Hi attention Whore. You have over 20K post behaving like a lackey-sock puppet for the FO, BOWLEN, & McD while kicking players to the curb like yesterdays garbage! So whats you're excuse????;)

Hogan11
12-17-2009, 07:38 PM
Hi attention Whore. You have over 20K post behaving like a lackey-sock puppet for the FO, BOWLEN, & McD while kicking players to the curb like yesterdays garbage! So whats you're excuse????;)

Players come and go, but the Organization will always remain, like it or not.

azbroncfan
12-17-2009, 09:56 PM
Hillis is best back ever to play for Denver. It is just too bad McD doesn't like Shanny guys right?

Popps
12-17-2009, 10:09 PM
Players come and go, but the Organization will always remain, like it or not.

:strong:

broncocalijohn
12-17-2009, 10:25 PM
Hillis is best back ever to play for Denver. It is just too bad McD doesn't like Shanny guys right?

we really need to find out about this conspiracy going on at Dove. Maybe Hillis is a jew and we could get McGaffney in on it to let us know.

rastaman
12-18-2009, 06:33 AM
Players come and go, but the Organization will always remain, like it or not.

True. But I don't recall ever seeing Bowlen putting his body and health at risk nor has the FO personnel who work for the Broncos on any given SUNDAY. The players are who the fans come to see perform and the players are the ones who are at risk of suffering serious injuries or career lifelong and sometimes life threatening injuries.

The Players are the true warriors and reason why fans fill up the stadiums to bring "fair weather" playa hating fans out of their seats with excitment! When was the last time you saw/heard about Bowlen's or McD's jersey sell going thru the roof! It all comes down to the players that have maded the NFL what it is today.

Let's just say the Bowlen and the HC are the neccessary parts in the back ground that plays a role with making the team successful as well, they are in the luxury boxes and on the sidelines rooting the players on.

But footbal is a physical athletic sport where gladiators go out there and put it all on the line for GLORY, money and fame; and thats what draws the fans. I'm a fan of the players first, the HC second, and the owner third. But I'm a fan none-the-less.

rastaman
12-18-2009, 06:39 AM
:strong:

So you put the Corporation ahead of the empolyees. Classic....Popps why aren't we surprised?

I bet you hate and loathe the NFL Players Union as well. Lets hear your spin...Mr. Wind Bag!:wiggle:

rastaman
12-18-2009, 06:43 AM
Hillis is best back ever to play for Denver. It is just too bad McD doesn't like Shanny guys right?

Orton is the best QB ever to play for Denver! Its just too bad McD won't open up the "Play Book" and allow Kyle to show case his skills. Orton is so talented he can make EVERYONE forget about ELWAY! Its just that McD is holding back Orton and Bowlen is sitting back allowing it to happen! :thumbs:

See AZ....theres always two sides to every conspiracy!

Bronco Yoda
12-19-2009, 05:10 PM
I have it on good authority that Hillis will be serving lemon slices not lime slices in the waterbottles this sunday.

Bronco Yoda
12-19-2009, 05:54 PM
I have it on good authority that Hillis will be filming the new Captain Morgan commercials on the sidelines Sunday.