PDA

View Full Version : Stop the madness


watermock
11-17-2008, 11:12 PM
Stop The Auto Bailout Campaign


Enough is enough. Congress is about to waste more money attempting to prop up ailing dinosaurs GM and Ford. We need to do something about this and we will. Please read this and act. First let's go over the background information.

Time is reporting Pressure for a New Bailout Grows.


Executives of GM, Ford and Chrysler met with House speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate majority leader Harry Reid on how to increase the size of Washington's aid package to the Big Three. Though details are still being worked out, the push is for an additional $25 billion in federal loan guarantees for Detroit in addition to the $25 billion already promised to assist the industry's shift to green technology.
GM To Big To Fail?

John Mauldin is asking Is GM too Big to Let Fail?

Bloomberg today cites sources that claim a collapse of GM would cost taxpayers $200 billion if the company were forced to liquidate. The projections also called for the loss of "millions" of auto-related jobs. GM, Ford, and Chrysler employ 240,000. They provide healthcare to 2 million, pension benefits to 775,000. Another 5 million jobs are directly related to the three auto companies. GM has 6,000 dealerships which employ 344,000 people. According to a recent study by the Center for Automotive Research (CAR), if the domestic automakers cut output and employment by 50 percent, nearly 2.5 million jobs would be lost and governments would lose $108 billion in revenue over three years.

Wilbur Ross, a well-known multi-billionaire investor, was on CNBC saying that allowing GM to go bankrupt would throw the country into what sounded like a depression. Of course, he does have an auto parts company which supplies GM; so he, as my Dad would say, does have a dog in that hunt.
Unimaginable Consequences

In Three Zeros: Circuit City, GM, Fannie Mae I pointed out the self serving proclamations of Wagoner.

Wagoner states that a GM bankruptcy would have "unimaginable consequences". Here is my translation "Wagoner Admits He Has No Imagination". Of course with GM shares at $3, that should be readily apparent.

Auto Industry Scare Tactics



Click Here To Play Video

The auto industry has put together a scare campaign attempting to get people to write Congress to bail them out. The presentation is scary alright, but hopelessly flawed. The Auto industry will no more go away in reorganization than did planes stop flying when airlines went out of business. There will be job losses of course, but those job losses will occur no matter how much money Congress throws at the problem.

New Way Of Doing Business

In keeping with Pelosi's spirit of a "New Way Of Doing Business", GM Opens $300 Million Russian Plant to Boost Sales.

General Motors Corp., the world's biggest carmaker, opened a $300 million factory in Russia as it looks to compensate for slumping sales in western Europe and North America.

The plant in the Shushary district on the outskirts of St. Petersburg will produce 70,000 Chevrolet Captiva sport-utility vehicles and the Opel Astra, with plans to manufacture the Chevrolet Cruze compact car next year.

"Our strategy is to become the leading manufacturer in Russia," Carl-Peter Forster, GM's chief for Europe, told reporters during the plant opening today. "For us Russia is not an emerging market. Russia emerged long ago."
So instead of losing jobs to Mexico, China, and India, GM's "New Way Of Doing Business" will be to lose jobs to Russia.

Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout

BusinessWeek is reporting Top Republican senators oppose automaker bailout.

Sens. Richard Shelby of Alabama and Jon Kyl of Arizona said it would be a mistake to use any of the Wall Street rescue money to prop up the automakers. They said an auto bailout would only postpone the industry's demise.

"Companies fail every day and others take their place. I think this is a road we should not go down," said Shelby, the senior Republican on the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee.

"They're not building the right products," he said. "They've got good workers but I don't believe they've got good management. They don't innovate. They're a dinosaur in a sense."

Added Kyl, the Senate's second-ranking Republican: "Just giving them $25 billion doesn't change anything. It just puts off for six months or so the day of reckoning."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said over the weekend that the House would provide aid to the ailing industry, though she did not put a price on her plan.

"The House is ready to do it," said Democratic Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. "There's no downside to trying."

Shelby Right Again

Senator Shelby was on the right side of the bailout issue (voting against), and he is on the right side of this. Pelosi and the Democrats want to throw $50 billion at the auto companies as if that would solve anything. It won't.

The combined market cap of GM and Ford is $1.84 Billion + $4.30 Billion or a grand total of $6.14 Billion. Spending $50 billion on companies worth $6.14 billion makes no sense. Furthermore, GM alone has a negative net worth (Stockholder's Deficit) of $60 Billion according to GM's 10Q for the period ended September 30, 2008.

If Congress gave GM $50 billion, GM would be worth -$10 billion!

Barney Frank says "There is no downside in trying." Of course there is a downside in trying. The downside is however much money Congress is willing to throw at the problem because every bit of it will be wasted.

Stop The Auto Bailout

We need to Call, write, and Fax Congress and tell them we are tired of GM's fear mongering tactics.

Congressional Phone And Fax Numbers

Click Here For Congressional Phone And Fax Numbers

Click Here For MetroFax Compatible Fax List For All Congress

Message For Congress

Fax Title: Say No To Auto Bailout

Dear senator/congressional rep

The Auto industry is attempting to employ the same scare tactics used by Paulson to get Congress to approve a $700 billion bailout for banks. Please remember that we were told huge measures were needed to prevent a stock market collapse.

Congress passed the $700 billion bailout on Friday October 3.

Since $700 Billion Bailout Passed

The S&P collapsed from 1114 on October 3rd to 848 on November 17th. This is a drop of 24%.
Paulson did not use the funds as requested.
Bernanke promised to disclose how taxpayer money would be used but has refused to do so.
Bloomberg has filed a lawsuit against the Fed under the Freedom of Information Act to find out just how Paulson has used the money.
Not a single job was created with the money.
Fannie Mae has announced it may need another $100 billion.
Freddie Mac proclaimed it had negative net worth.
AIG received another $37 billion.
Cities and Auto companies now want a share of the $700 Billion.
There was not a single positive result out of the money that was spent.

The Paulson plan was poorly thought out and poorly executed which is exactly what one would expect when Congress rushes to pass bills without considering alternatives.

Paulson Humiliated

On November 14 Paulson stated "We have in many ways humiliated ourselves as a nation with some of the problems that have taken place here."

Humiliated Again

We were humiliated again by wasting half of the appropriated $700 billion and getting virtually nothing out of it. Worse yet, Congress violated free market principles to waste that money.

Now Congress is complaining banks do not want to lend.

Of course banks do not want to lend. Unemployment is rising, credit card defaults are rising, foreclosures are rising, and commercial real estate losses are rising. Banks need reserves to offset increasing loan loss provisions.

Forcing Banks To Lend Is A Huge Mistake

Forcing banks to lend would be a huge mistake. All it will do is increase bank losses. We are in this mess in the first place because banks lent recklessly. Now the ultimate irony is right in the midst of a recession, certain members of Congress are attempting to force banks to lend.

Stop The Madness!

Consumers are tapped out. They are not going to buy autos no matter how much money Congress throws at the sector.

World Will Not End If GM Goes Bankrupt

The very best thing that can happen to GM and Ford is they go bankrupt. The sooner the better. Congress will then see that the world will not end. Both companies will reorganize. Both companies will keep making cars.

The airline industry did not stop flying when it went bankrupt and the auto companies will not stop producing cars if they go bankrupt. In fact, bankruptcies will eliminate the debt on the books decrease interest payments and make the companies more competitive, if and when they ever get around to producing autos that consumers want instead of what the manufactures want to produce.

The combined market cap of GM and Ford is $1.84 Billion + $4.30 Billion or a grand total of $6.14 Billion. Spending $50 billion on companies worth $6.14 billion makes no sense.

Furthermore, GM alone has a negative net worth (Stockholder's Deficit) of $60 Billion according to GM's 10Q for the period ended September 30, 2008.

If Congress gave GM $50 billion, GM would be worth -$10 billion!

The Downside In Trying

Barney Frank says "There is no downside in trying." Of course there is a downside in trying. The downside is however much money Congress is willing to throw at the problem because every bit of it will be wasted.

Paulson gave Citigroup $25 billion. Today Citigroup announced it will shed 50,000 jobs. Exactly what taxpayer benefit did we get for that $25 billion?

It is high time Congress stop wasting taxpayer money. Let GM and Ford go bankrupt. The world will not end and no jobs will be lost that are not going to be lost anyway. The more money Congress wastes attempting to bail out organizations that deserve to fail, the less money there will be for legitimate uses down the road. It's high time that Congress understand that simple economic fact.

I urge you to vote against any bailout for the Auto companies. To do so would be a further waste of taxpayer money.

http://www.globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

watermock
11-18-2008, 02:47 AM
GM ALONE has 2B in debt/mo just from its subprime leasing/financing practices.

Just floating that debt would take 50 billion over a year, plus the pensions.

barryr
11-18-2008, 05:59 AM
When will all of this stop? Pretty soon at this rate, everybody will get bailed out and nobody will have to suffer any consequences for any decisions they make. Just sit back and let the government take care of me. Pathetic.

Meck77
11-18-2008, 06:14 AM
My local morning Denver news reported that Congress doesn't have the votes for an auto bailout but ultimately it may be Obama's decision who apparently favors another BS bailout.

So where do you guys stand on this issue?

Oh on a side note I've been talking with every mortgage lender I know. Nobody they know has gotten any "home retention benefit" from the bailout money. One particular lender who works for countrywide said 1 out of 30 people he gave the 800# to was able to adjust their ARM loan but all they did was adjust the adjustable period out a year.

AK what are you hearing on the mortgage side?

Florida_Bronco
11-18-2008, 06:59 AM
As much as it may suck, I gotta support this...both as a "car guy" and someone worried about the futures of the GM workers.

Meck77
11-18-2008, 07:04 AM
So let me ask you this FB. Why doesn't Honda or Toyota need a bailout?

Florida_Bronco
11-18-2008, 07:06 AM
So let me ask you this FB. Why doesn't Honda or Toyota need a bailout?

Who knows? Who cares?

I'm glad they are doing well, but GM is not and that is the problem we must deal with.

Meck77
11-18-2008, 07:19 AM
Who knows? Who cares?


:oyvey:

You are right. It doesn't matter why one of our nations largest industries is failing. :thumbsup:



Dealing with the situation would mean.........oh nevermind. Who cares! :rofl:

Rank&File
11-18-2008, 07:32 AM
Now is the time to force their hands. If they are going to get $$, it has to be for re-tooling. GM is still building Hummers for crying out loud!

The worst possible thing we can do is throw money at the problem while they keep their current business plans. Force them to change...

Rank&File
11-18-2008, 07:34 AM
and Barney Frank is a ****ing waste of skin.

Pseudofool
11-18-2008, 07:51 AM
Bankruptcy would be great in normal circumstances; but there's no way GM, etc. is going to get financing to absolve their debts with the credit frozen.

This is about stopping a general cascade of american businesses failing. I don't think anyone anticipates this will save the company, but it could delay it's need to go bankrupt for a couple years until credit is no longer frozen.

I'm not sure why anyone would think other industries will emerge to higher low-skilled American workers. We're too expensive. The only way we can employ our populace is to keep the jobs we have here, even if it means running a huge deficit for a number of years.

Florida_Bronco
11-18-2008, 07:52 AM
:oyvey:

You are right. It doesn't matter why one of our nations largest industries is failing. :thumbsup:



Dealing with the situation would mean.........oh nevermind. Who cares! :rofl:

The problem with that logic is that if we don't save their ass, there wont be any problem to solve.

bronclvr
11-18-2008, 08:03 AM
Why doesn't Honda or Toyota need a bailout?

Last month, U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Lansing, introduced a bill dubbed the Japanese Currency Manipulation Act, which would force Japan's government "to take action to stop subsidizing millions of auto exports to the U.S. by bringing its currency into proper alignment with the U.S. dollar.


http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/04/ford-warns-on-sales-gm-offers-rebates.html

Japan's yen subsidy provides the average imported Japanese car a $4,000 windfall cost advantage over U.S. automakers and other competitors in the U.S. market — a windfall that ranges up to $10,000 per vehicle for higher-end Japanese imported SUVs such as those sold by Toyota under the Lexus brand.

http://www.autoyensubsidy.org/press/release/2007/03_28.htm

Let's have an even playing field-

USAFBronco
11-18-2008, 02:20 PM
where were the bail outs when the dot-coms were failing?

What about when Enron collapsed?

Bronco Yoda
11-18-2008, 04:30 PM
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is the 2010 date where the UAW will take over all health care coverage. This will be huge for the automakers bottom line. This will significantly drop their costs.

If we do give them a loan, it absolutely must come with strict caps on big bonuses to executives as a condition of federal aid.

mhgaffney
11-18-2008, 09:15 PM
If we look on this as an opportunity -- thikngs might go better than one might suppose.

This is America's big chance to force Detroit to build energy efficient cars. If America loans the $$ then we can set the terms.

I'd rather loan $$$ to GM (which actually builds something) than to banksters.

It all depends on the fine print.

MHG

Bronco Yoda
11-18-2008, 09:31 PM
So let me ask you this FB. Why doesn't Honda or Toyota need a bailout?

FYI,

The Germans and Japanese subsidize their auto inustry

stugotsII
11-18-2008, 09:32 PM
Yeah, enough is enough.

Let them fail. I don't understand why they are being rewarded for terrible business practices.