PDA

View Full Version : Stocks lower as Paulson unveils change in bailout


Garcia Bronco
11-12-2008, 10:33 AM
Stocks lower as Paulson unveils change in bailout
Wednesday November 12, 12:25 pm ET
By Sara Lepro, AP Business Writer
Wall Street losses steepen as Paulson unveils plan to not buy distressed bank assets


NEW YORK (AP) -- An already disheartened Wall Street turned sharply lower Wednesday after Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said the government won't buy banks' soured mortgage assets after all, disappointing investors who hoped to see the bad debt wiped off companies' books. The Dow Jones industrials fell more than 270 points, and all the major indexes dropped more than 3 percent as the market retreated for a third straight session.
ADVERTISEMENT


Paulson said the government's $700 billion financial rescue package won't purchase troubled assets from banks as originally planned. He said that plan would have taken too much time, and that the Treasury instead will rely on buying stakes in banks and encouraging them to resume more normal lending.

While the market had been pleased by the government's decision weeks ago to buy banks' stock, investors still hoped to see the financial industry relieved of the burden of the mortgage assets whose decline in value helped set off the nation's financial crisis.

There is also concern that the bailout funds are being depleted rather quickly, said Jason O'Donnell, senior research analyst at Boenning & Scattergood.

"Investors are generally in favor of the emphasis on the capital purchase provisions," O'Donnell said. But, "we're down quickly to a small portion of total funds remaining for other purposes."

Paulson also announced a new goal for the program to support financial markets which supply consumer credit in such areas as credit card debt, auto loans and student loans. He said, "with a stronger capital base, our banks will be more confident" to support economic activity.

Meanwhile, Morgan Stanley outlined plans to cut 10 percent of staff in its institutional securities group -- its biggest business that covers everything from investment banking to stock trading. The nation's No. 2 securities firm, which converted into a bank holding company in September, plans to scale back this business before the end of the year. The layoffs are in addition to a 10 percent cut made earlier this year.

Morgan Stanley also plans to restructure its money management business by cutting 9 percent of the group's work force. The securities firm employs about 44,000 people worldwide.

Bleak news from some of the nation's biggest retailers also sent stocks falling. Macy's Inc. said it lost $44 million in the third quarter as sales at the department store retailer fell more than 7 percent. And consumer electronics retailer Best Buy Co. slashed its fiscal 2009 guidance on fears that consumer spending will erode even further.

Investors are worried that a severe pullback in consumer spending -- which drives more than two-thirds of the U.S. economy -- will prolong a global economic downturn.

In midday trading, the Dow shed 278.21, or 3.20 percent, to 8,415.75.

The broader Standard & Poor's 500 index dropped 29.34, or 3.26 percent, to 869.61, and the Nasdaq composite index stumbled 47.86, or 3.03 percent, to 1,533.04.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 17.00, or 3.52 percent, to 465.29.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by about 9 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where volume came to a light 506.92 million shares.

While concerns about consumer spending contributed to the market's declines on Monday and Tuesday, Paulson's remarks on Wednesday underscored the anxiety that remains about the health of the financial system.

Though the announcement marks a major shift in the original bailout plan and seemed to rattle investors, Wall Street analysts generally believe that the Treasury is now on the right path.

"That's really what they should have done originally," said Matt King, chief investment officer of Bell Investment Advisors. "First and foremost, we have to make sure banks are going to survive and then we can worry about lending. This is the quickest and most efficient way to do that."

"Buying bad assets doesn't do that," he said.

In corporate news, the future of the country's top automakers remained a major concern on the Street. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants Congress to support a financial bailout for the troubled U.S. auto industry, which is suffering under the weight of poor sales, tight credit and a sputtering economy.

President-elect Obama, when he met with President Bush at the White House on Monday, urged Bush to support aid for the auto industry, and Democrats in Congress have begun drafting legislation that would give General Motors, Ford and Chrysler access to $25 billion of the rescue funds.

General Motors shares rose 23 cents, or 7.9 percent, to $3.15, while Ford gained 11 cents, or 6 percent, to $1.91.

American Express Co. is said to be seeking about $3.5 billion from the government to help boost its balance sheet, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal citing people familiar with the situation. AmEx, the No. 4 U.S. credit card issuer, won approval Monday from the Federal Reserve to become a bank holding company, which gives it the ability to grow a large deposit base and access financing from the Fed.

AmEx shares dropped $1.80, or 8 percent, to $20.60.

Prudential Financial Inc. said late Tuesday its 2008 annual dividend will be roughly half of what it paid out to shareholders last year. The insurer said it will pay a dividend of 58 cents per share on Dec. 19 to shareholders of record at the close of business on Nov. 24. Last year, the company paid a dividend of $1.15 per share.

Prudential shares added 9 cents to $27.70.

Government bond prices, which did not trade Tuesday because of Veterans Day, moved higher as investors looked for safer investments. The three-month Treasury bill's yield fell to 0.14 percent from 0.22 percent late Monday, and the yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note fell to 3.67 percent from 3.76 percent late Monday.

Lower yields indicate stronger demand.

Crude dropped below $57 a barrel Wednesday on the growing realization that global economic growth next year will slow more than originally feared, cutting demand for crude products such as gasoline. Light, sweet crude fell $2.59 to $56.74 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

The dollar was mixed against other major currencies, while gold prices dipped.

Overseas, Japan's Nikkei closed down 1.29 percent and Hong Kong Hang Seng fell 0.73 percent. In European trading, London's FTSE 100 fell 1.65 percent, Germany's DAX fell 2.96 percent, and France's CAC-40 dropped 2.96 percent.

New York Stock Exchange: http://www.nyse.com

Nasdaq Stock Market: http://www.nasdaq.com

Garcia Bronco
11-12-2008, 10:34 AM
Obama, Bush, Pelosi, Paulson are killing us. Stop the bailouts. There is no end in sight. Now instead of buy up bad assets, the governemnt is buying stakes in the banks. WTF does this accomplish?

theAPAOps5
11-12-2008, 10:36 AM
People say we are on the way to socialism but fact is we are already there. Let them fail, yeah it will hurt and it will hurt real bad but we can pull through.

Garcia Bronco
11-12-2008, 10:37 AM
People say we are on the way to socialism but fact is we are already there. Let them fail, yeah it will hurt and it will hurt real bad but we can pull through.

Exactly.

Spider
11-12-2008, 10:40 AM
People say we are on the way to socialism but fact is we are already there. Let them fail, yeah it will hurt and it will hurt real bad but we can pull through.

it goes much deeper then that , yeah it sucks wal street gets bailed out , but main street America will get the worst end of this , I told this story earlier , but I company we haul for had to cut back cause their line of credit went from 400 K ( I cant remeber the exact amount ) down to a 100 k a month , that means they will have to lay people off etc .......
ramifications of not bailing out wal street run deep bro .......... something that needs to be thought out.....
edit it was a month not a year

NaptownChief
11-12-2008, 10:44 AM
The bailouts were a horrible idea to start with but at least with the buying of the bad mortgages there would have been some recoup of the outlay. Now it is pretty much gone from making an investment with some hope of a partial return to just opening up the tax payers check book and giving welfare to poorly run companies.

What a disaster. The markets wouldn't have fallen much farther had they just let all the bad companies fail and at least then tax payers wouldn't be on the hook for this mess.

Garcia Bronco
11-12-2008, 10:49 AM
The bailouts were a horrible idea to start with but at least with the buying of the bad mortgages there would have been some recoup of the outlay. Now it is pretty much gone from making an investment with some hope of a partial return to just opening up the tax payers check book and giving welfare to poorly run companies.

What a disaster. The markets wouldn't have fallen much farther had they just let all the bad companies fail and at least then tax payers wouldn't be on the hook for this mess.

Rarley ever is the Governemnt the solution to our problems.

NaptownChief
11-12-2008, 10:52 AM
Rarley ever is the Governemnt the solution to our problems.



Peggy The Moocher disagrees with you....as does Spider. And I know you want to align yourself with classy folks like that. ;D

Arkie
11-12-2008, 10:53 AM
Government is usually the cause of our problems.

Spider
11-12-2008, 10:55 AM
Peggy The Moocher disagrees with you....as does Spider. And I know you want to align yourself with classy folks like that. ;D

LOL cry me a river........

gyldenlove
11-12-2008, 11:17 AM
The bailouts were a horrible idea to start with but at least with the buying of the bad mortgages there would have been some recoup of the outlay. Now it is pretty much gone from making an investment with some hope of a partial return to just opening up the tax payers check book and giving welfare to poorly run companies.

What a disaster. The markets wouldn't have fallen much farther had they just let all the bad companies fail and at least then tax payers wouldn't be on the hook for this mess.

All the bad companies are people like GM, Ford, Chrysler, how far do you think the real estate values would fall with 10 million people joining the unemployment lines?

How low do you think wages will go? because minimum wage is not going to be high with an army of people trying to put food on the table, even illegal aliens would have a hard time finding jobs.

If you let the market be free, it will crash and burn horribly. Tens of millions will lose all their savings. Tens of millions would be unable to get insurance and that is okay right now, but come forest fire and hurricane season that is going to translate into a lot of homeless people. The best thing would be how much of America would end up in the hands of Chinese, Arab and Indian people, they have the money and they will buy up your banks, insurance companies, mortgage companies etc., and suddenly the American economy would be out of the hands of the American people all together.

NaptownChief
11-12-2008, 11:23 AM
All the bad companies are people like GM, Ford, Chrysler, how far do you think the real estate values would fall with 10 million people joining the unemployment lines?

How low do you think wages will go? because minimum wage is not going to be high with an army of people trying to put food on the table, even illegal aliens would have a hard time finding jobs.

If you let the market be free, it will crash and burn horribly. Tens of millions will lose all their savings. Tens of millions would be unable to get insurance and that is okay right now, but come forest fire and hurricane season that is going to translate into a lot of homeless people. The best thing would be how much of America would end up in the hands of Chinese, Arab and Indian people, they have the money and they will buy up your banks, insurance companies, mortgage companies etc., and suddenly the American economy would be out of the hands of the American people all together.



It would get ugly but it is going to get ugly anyway. Throwing GM, F and C a temporary lifeline is just going to kick the can down the road until they burn through our tax dollars and are right back to where we are now only with a bigger national deficit.

The markets will correct themselves. Do you think that if GM, F and C go under the American people will no longer need cars? Other automakers that are well ran will step in and pick up the good assets and people and roll along. Plus once the UAW and it's business strangling practice is out of the way there will be other American owned auto companies formed in Detriot that will be there to pick up the pieces.

It will temorarly get worse before it gets better but it will get better and be done the right way. What is going on now is absolutely the wrong way.

Smiling Assassin27
11-12-2008, 01:03 PM
is it just me or did the markets stabilize in spite of paulson not doing what he said needed to be done? The amount of money that they said was needed, was based on implementing the steps laid out in a plan that has now changed. Was that amount REALLY even calculated or just pulled out of someone's arse? So the amount of money that wasn't really calculated, to be used in a way that has been scratched, still managed to stabilize the markets? Huh? Maybe the markets stabilized via market forces, not some foolish government wank job.

Hotrod
11-12-2008, 01:16 PM
we are ****ed

Spider
11-12-2008, 01:31 PM
we are ****ed

I am not in Gunnison , so you are safe sugar muffin lips ;D
Seriously though here lately My phone has been ringing off the hook with offers , just got one hellva an offer from Black hills trucking , move a 75 load rig from Vernal Utah to Pinedale 4 loads guaranteed. I am shooting for 10 ...
if I wanted t ohire on as a company driver they will pay 32 bucks an hour + over time and bennies .......

Meck77
11-12-2008, 04:50 PM
Fool me once shame on you.........Fool me twice shame on me.....

watermock
11-12-2008, 04:58 PM
I want to know where that 2 trillion went before Obama spits out another 4-6 trillion.

watermock
11-12-2008, 05:09 PM
The reason we cant rescue the morgages is because of credit default swaps...noone even knows how to unravel 80% of the morgages.

The were all bundled up and sold in slices. They have no real identity, thus, no tangible value...you cant just repossess the property.

Only a fraction of even fannie and freddie morgages are wholly owned. They all have been bundled and sliced and sold to individual entities.

They are nothing but overleveraged paper.

We are going thru a massive deleverization. Some hedge funds were leveraged 30-40/1.

Oh, BTW, Paulson is a crook from Goldman Sachs.

watermock
11-12-2008, 05:18 PM
Paulson said himself the the 700 billion was an arbitrary number. I think the fed only had 1.3 trillion in reserves so it couldnt act on the nessisary 4 trillion, hence the "missing" 2 trillion and the 150 billion more to AIG.

orinjkrush
11-12-2008, 05:21 PM
please G*d, stop this insanity.
letting these foxes distribute the chickens is bizarre.

watermock
11-12-2008, 05:28 PM
The funny thing is that we were all told it was an EMERGENCY!, and a month later they are still deciding what friends to reward.

watermock
11-12-2008, 05:33 PM
"I need to figure out a plan....Wanna get high?"

orinjkrush
11-12-2008, 05:36 PM
fast decisions are often impetuous, ill informed, and emotional decisions.

fear mongers love em.

frerottenextelway
11-12-2008, 05:41 PM
I'm not sure people really understand what is at stake here. If we let them all fall (and they all would - and still might), there is no ****ing stock market. People can talk about this costing 2 trillion dollars or whatever, but if the banks falls and credit completely shuts off, there is no dollar - there is no trade - there is no economy.

frerottenextelway
11-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Baltic Dry Index

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f53/midtowng/bdi.gif

This is basically the cost of shipping stuff by sea. In short, it's now to the point that it costs more in fuels and crew to ship than the current market price because of credit freezes on the buyers. When this happens, you're guarenteed shipping ends until (or unless) credit opens. That means basic trade (food, coal, oil) will stop. You fill in the rest.