Rabbi M. Lerner bemoans Obama's Emanuel pick

[mhgaffney]

Rabbi Michael Lerner is the editor of a progressive Jewish journal by the name of Tikkun.

His article pretty much says it all.

MHG

NEWS ADVISORY:

Rahm Emanuel is no Reason for Hope or Celebration


by Rabbi Michael Lerner

Election night tens of millions of us wept for joy. We sang the songs that we had sung as young men and women when we were fighting segregation in the south and then in the North, some of us being beaten, others jailed, some even killed. For the first time in three decades we could sing "Imagine" and "The Times They are a'Changing" without feeling that we were holding onto utopian fantasies that had been
buried by the cynical realists who have shaped public discourse.

How exciting to believe again in the possibility of America as the potential embodiment of our ideals for social justice, peace, and ecological sanity. We could hardly believe our own eyes-we were living through the rebirth of a nation and its attempt to heal its racist past.

So no wonder why many of us were shocked and deeply disappointed when we learned on Thursday that Congressman Rahm Emanuel was to be the Chief of Staff in the Obama White House.

Emanuel, for those who don't recall, was the Congressman who traveled the country in 2006 finding "suitable" candidates in "swing districts" to run against Republican incumbents, and in many instances he succeeded. But his theory of how to succeed was destructive: he sought the most conservative possible candidates in each district, insisting that local Democratic Party organizations reject more liberal candidates who, he feared, might not win.

There were many among the House Democrats who deplored this tactic. The main issue on the mind of the electorate was the war in Iraq, and public opinion had moved so far in opposition to that war that the Democratic leadership in the House was pushed to proclaim that it would cut off funding for the war if Democrats won control of Congress. Well, the outcome was that Democrats did win control, but since the candidates that Emanuel picked were more conservative and militarist than the mainstream of the Party, they were not reliable allies when it came to voting against war funding. Instead of cutting fund for the war, Nancy Pelosi's House increased the funding, explaining that they had to appear "responsible" in order to solidify their control of Congress in 2008..

Clever? Not for the people, Americans and Iraqis, killed or wounded in the meantime.

This was no mistake on Emanuel's part. Rahm Emanuel has a long history of militarist ideology behind him. His father was a member of the ultra-right-wing terrorist organization Etzel that killed British civilians as part of their anti-British struggle in Palestine in the 1940s. Emanuel, himself a citizen of Israel as well as the United States, [and who actually joined the Israeli Defence Force] has been one of several Congressional leaders enforcing the "Israel Lobby" concensus on the Democrats, in the process shutting out the peace voices that believe Israel's security would be better served by the U.S. putting pressure on Israel to end the Occupation, move the Wall to inside the pre-67 boundaries, and remove the settlers from the West Bank or tell them to live there as Palestinian citizens.

It's not just the pro-peace and reconciliation forces that are unlikely to be given a serious hearing in a White House in which Rahm Emanuel controls who gets to talk to the President. Emanuel will almost certainly be protecting Obama from all of us spiritual progressives and those of us who describe ourselves as the Religious Left-so that our commitment to single-payer universal health care, carbon taxes for environmental protection, a Homeland Security strategy based on generosity and implemented through a Global Marshall Plan, will be unlikely to get a serious hearing in the White House.

When these issues were avoided by Obama during the campaign, most of us spiritual progressives told ourselves, "He's just being political, but once elected he'll reveal himself committed to the values that he whispered into our ears privately over the course of the past many years." The Rahm Emanuel selection is an early warning that the peace and justice agenda dropped by Obama after he won the Democratic nomination may be permanently on hold, and the progressives themselves may have to settle for "access" and flowery words at an inauguration address rather than the substance of change. For many of us, just the fact of having a brilliant young black man in the White House will be such a healing experience that we won't care about this newly emerging reality: unless Obama creates some other path to access and to public input into his policies by those of us who helped build his electoral success, or unless we organize to do so outside the framework of his campaign organization, we may be in for lots of disappointments.

Rabbi Michael Lerner is editor of Tikkun Magazine www.tikkun.org, chair of the Network of Spiritual Progressives www.spiritualprogressives.org, author of 11 books (most recently the 2006 national best-seller The Left Hand of God) and as a member of Rabbis for Obama recently debated Bill Kristol about how Jews should vote in the election. RabbiLerner@tikkun.org

[Rohirrim]

We've already seen what the takeover of the GOP by the extremist Right did to that Party. Now Gaff bemoans that the extremist Left isn't taking over the Dem Party. Good.

BTW, "spiritual progressive?" WTF is that, commies who do Bikram Yoga? ;D

[enjolras]

This guy projected what HE thinks Obama SHOULD believe on to Obama, and then is disappointed when Obama lives up to the things he said?

It's really confusing.

I hate to sound like an apologist... but this is nothing.

[cutthemdown]

Sounds good to me. A more conservative democratic party is one I like better.

[Paladin]

Geezus. Can you neocons stop bleeding on the new carpet? Get a room.

[mhgaffney]

Since when did people who opposed the war become extremists?

[cutthemdown]

I'm confused whose unhappy with this pick? Not conservatives who are pro Israel right? I mean this pick and Obama saying Jerusalem will always be the Jewish capital shows he is firmly behind the Jews. Is that what liberals are upset about?

[Rohirrim]

Since when did people who opposed the war become extremists?

It sounds to me like their agenda is a whole lot more than just anti-war. We've tried desperately to free ourselves from the insanity of the Religious Right and now you want us to jump into the laps of people who call themselves the Religious Left? No thanks.

[cutthemdown]

Obama is shaping up to be even more pro Israeli then both Bushes or Clinton IMO.

I think with Obama he is so focused on what he sees an injustice in America that he isn't really that interested in the plight of the Palestinians. Obama smart enough to know saying that Jerusalem would always be the undivided Jewish capital means no peace deal or accord.

Now that his Chief of staff is staunchly pro Israel it looks like the Palestinians are out of luck.

Also in his book Rahm Emmanuel says he feels the USA should have mandatory service to the country of at least 6 months.

He's pretty nationalistic, fairly militaristic, hell I like him!!!!!! good choice by Obama.

I even hear Obama may ask Gates to stay on as defense sec for a little longer.

[Rohirrim]

Obama is shaping up to be even more pro Israeli then both Bushes or Clinton IMO.

I think with Obama he is so focused on what he sees an injustice in America that he isn't really that interested in the plight of the Palestinians. Obama smart enough to know saying that Jerusalem would always be the undivided Jewish capital means no peace deal or accord.

Now that his Chief of staff is staunchly pro Israel it looks like the Palestinians are out of luck.

Also in his book Rahm Emmanuel says he feels the USA should have mandatory service to the country of at least 6 months.

He's pretty nationalistic, fairly militaristic, hell I like him!!!!!! good choice by Obama.

I even hear Obama may ask Gates to stay on as defense sec for a little longer.

The Palestinians are not "out of luck." The position of Rahm is that the people are being manipulated by Hamas and the PLO and need to find their own solution. Hamas is being manipulated by Iran, whose mullahs want to impose an Islamic state from Iran to the Mediterranean. The Palestinian people are simply pawns in the argument. The Israelis are in the position of having to create a peace with the Palestinian people while fighting off the influence of radical fundamental Islam whose goal it is to wipe Israel off the map.

[cutthemdown]

The Palestinians are not "out of luck." The position of Rahm is that the people are being manipulated by Hamas and the PLO and need to find their own solution. Hamas is being manipulated by Iran, whose mullahs want to impose an Islamic state from Iran to the Mediterranean. The Palestinian people are simply pawns in the argument. The Israelis are in the position of having to create a peace with the Palestinian people while fighting off the influence of radical fundamental Islam whose goal it is to wipe Israel off the map.

I guess if the Palestinians can live without Jerusalem as there capital they could still be winners. Rahm and Obama are clear on that issue and I don't think they would be able to go back on it.

[Drek]

Since when did people who opposed the war become extremists?

People who want to stop funding our troops forcing them to all be pulled out instantaneously are extremists. Which is basically what this article is asking for.

Iraq is screwed up, largely because of Bush. It is the next president's responsibility to get us out of Iraq but in a responsible manner.

Also, the extreme left can suck it. Blue dog dems are here to stay. They are the true reflection of America. A centrist nation that leans right on financial and economic values and left on social and civil issues.

[Pseudofool]

This pick speaks nothing of Obama's policy or direction, it speaks to Obama's desire to get things done. Which shows he's serious as opposed to simply ideological. This is a fine pick. If Obama was leaf in the wind their could be some worry, but Obama has the type of character that isn't going to pushed around.

[W*GS]

The harping from the loony left has already started on Obama. He must be doing something right, then.

[Pseudofool]

The harping from the loony left has already started on Obama. He must be doing something right, then.I'm pretty far left, and I don't get the outrage. I'm not sure you want a lefty to be your strong-man in the whitehouse.

[Paladin]

I agree with Drek. While I am partial to calling myself an Independent, I do identify with the Blue Dogs most of the time.

But it is critical that the US gets out of Iraq. Having a disengagement plan is not a bad idea. We are already seeing some reduction in that some of the "Surge" level numbers are being reduced. Praeteus (sp?) is not a Rummy-style mime who follows the script. My guess is that he will talk with Obama about getting out soonest....

I do not think it is the US's responsibility to assure Iraq's perpetual safety against Iran. The Iraqi's themselves need to decide whether they are going to be Shia or Sunni.

[Bronco Bob]

I even hear Obama may ask Gates to stay on as defense sec for a little longer.

That would be great. When Bush put Gates in as SofD there was finally an
adult in charge of something in the Bush administration, Gates is the main
reason we aren't at war with Iran.

[Paladin]

That would be great. When Bush put Gates in as SofD there was finally an
adult in charge of something in the Bush administration, Gates is the main
reason we aren't at war with Iran.

....and maybe developing a more reasonable outlook on Iraq....

[cutthemdown]

The harping from the loony left has already started on Obama. He must be doing something right, then.

Watch us end up defending Obama and them attacking all the time just like usual.

[Pseudofool]

Watch us end up defending Obama and them attacking all the time just like usual.So the left both worship Obama and are likely to attack him? Obama is a politician who shouldn't be above criticism. I know this is hard for people on the right to understand, who never ever question their leadership (or else they'd be anti-ameircan, right?).

[cutthemdown]

So the left both worship Obama and are likely to attack him? Obama is a politician who shouldn't be above criticism. I know this is hard for people on the right to understand, who never ever question their leadership (or else they'd be anti-ameircan, right?).

not true I critique often I just don't make giant leaps to assign blame to a President just to meet my partisan goals.

But I'm really happy with this pick as Chief of staff. Being pro Israel is something I agree with. I'm glad to see Obama is going to continue that. Rahm Emmanual is a Zionist and Obama listens to him.

Obama only said he would talk to people like Iran, he didn't say he would listen to there B.S.

[SoCalBronco]

So Gaff is quoting and agreeing with Rabbis, now?

What is this....alternate universe day or something?

[watermock]

Lets see what kind of cabinet Obama places, or has placed around him. I'm afraid it's going to be surprising with the names I've heard mentioned, like Reubin, Volker, Emanuel...

[mhgaffney]

The Palestinians are not "out of luck." The position of Rahm is that the people are being manipulated by Hamas and the PLO and need to find their own solution. Hamas is being manipulated by Iran, whose mullahs want to impose an Islamic state from Iran to the Mediterranean. The Palestinian people are simply pawns in the argument. The Israelis are in the position of having to create a peace with the Palestinian people while fighting off the influence of radical fundamental Islam whose goal it is to wipe Israel off the map.

Rohirrim is clueless.

Here are the facts. I've stated them before on this board -- many times -- but Rohirrim and others are dense between the ears. They don't get it.

Everyone in the world understands what the terms of a genuine peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians must be. It is only Americans who do not understand this. Two posters on this thread have expressed confusion. The reason for their confusion is because the US media (much of which is Zionist controlled) has lied and lied and lied about this conflict for many years: how it arose, what it's about, and what needs to be done to end it. No wonder Americans don't understand.

For there to be peace -- Israel must abide by UN Security Council Resolutions -- and withdraw its occupation troops from the West Bank -- which is Arab land. This part of Palestine will become the future Palestinian state.

Most Israelis support this land for peace solution. Most Israelis also support talks with Hamas -- which -- despite what Rohirrim stated - - is NOT controlled by Iran or anyone else. Hamas is a homegrown Palestinian nationalist movement. Period. End of story.

The problem is that radical hard line Zionists do NOT want a peace settlement -- and they are a majority in AIPAC -- the Jewish lobby here in the USA. The hard liners also exercise power in Israel far beyond their numbers -- Sharon was of this persuasion -- thanks to US government support for their extremist cause.

Hard line Zionists are NOT interested in a peace treaty with Palestinians -- nor with the surrounding Arab states. They believe they can impose their will upon the region. Their solution to every problem is more force.

The question Americans today should be asking is this: Why is the US government presently aligned with extremists in Israel and in AIPAC ? Why are we not supporting the more moderate Jewish majority who want peace?

This is the important question. As I indicated -- i thas been obscured by a US media that is almost totally controlled, and does not tell the truth.

As for Obama, he traded his independence for financial support from Wall Street -- which he used to defeat McCain. Obama made a fateful decision -- out of sheer expedience -- to surrender US Mideast policy to the hard line Zionists in return for $$$$$$$.

His appointment of Emanuel -- which puts an Israeli citizen in a key position of control in the White House -- was only the first chit in return for all of that money. Make no mistake, in the coming days Obama will be required again and again to betray the cause of peace.

Obama has already lost control of US Mideast policy, which is now being formulated by Zionists. This means there will be no peace treaty.

In essence, Obama's presidency has ended even before it has begun.

I fear the result will be a catastrophic global war -- because the most important priority in the world today must be a settlement of the Palestinian/Israel conflict -- and a wider regional peace agreement -- - to be followed by withdrawal of US forces from both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Without such an agreement -- the prospects are bleak. Indeed, now that peace is OFF the table -- what is to prevent a wider war? If it happens it will make Iraq look like a warm up.

Folks, this is the reality. It is not a pretty thing.

MHG

[Odysseus]

Since when did people who opposed the war become extremists?

His acceptance speech was at Grant Park. This was the scene of one of the worst anti war "riots" in 1968. You don't think he was making a statement with this. Obama does not want war but peace has a price.

We are in bed with Israel. We could not turn our backs on them even if we wanted to. The Arabic mind is not forgiving. If we stay with them we are infidel devils. If we leave we are infidel betrayers. Expedience has very little to do with a lack of real choices.

The Arabs are seriously divided and in Middle East you do not negotiate from a position of weakness or lack of power. Jews, like them or not, are on the front lines of change in the Middle East. There will come a point when Obama will have to meet with Arabic leaders but right now he needs to line up the powers that ARE before he can change the powers that BE.

[Odysseus]

This pick speaks nothing of Obama's policy or direction, it speaks to Obama's desire to get things done. Which shows he's serious as opposed to simply ideological. This is a fine pick. If Obama was leaf in the wind their could be some worry, but Obama has the type of character that isn't going to pushed around.

Rahm Emmanuel isn't there to keep out the Right out but to keep the Democrats in line. The cabinet will be diverse but in a wide tent where your leader does not tolerate back biting you need a guy who knows the correct way to tell his own members to STFU.

[W*GS]

I see gaffney is up to his usual fearful, paranoiac, Jew-hating doomsterism.

Some things never change.

[Rohirrim]

Rohirrim is clueless.

Here are the facts. I've stated them before on this board -- many times -- but Rohirrim and others are dense between the ears. They don't get it.

Everyone in the world understands what the terms of a genuine peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians must be. It is only Americans who do not understand this. Two posters on this thread have expressed confusion. The reason for their confusion is because the US media (much of which is Zionist controlled) has lied and lied and lied about this conflict for many years: how it arose, what it's about, and what needs to be done to end it. No wonder Americans don't understand.

For there to be peace -- Israel must abide by UN Security Council Resolutions -- and withdraw its occupation troops from the West Bank -- which is Arab land. This part of Palestine will become the future Palestinian state.

Most Israelis support this land for peace solution. Most Israelis also support talks with Hamas -- which -- despite what Rohirrim stated - - is NOT controlled by Iran or anyone else. Hamas is a homegrown Palestinian nationalist movement. Period. End of story.

The problem is that radical hard line Zionists do NOT want a peace settlement -- and they are a majority in AIPAC -- the Jewish lobby here in the USA. The hard liners also exercise power in Israel far beyond their numbers -- Sharon was of this persuasion -- thanks to US government support for their extremist cause.

Hard line Zionists are NOT interested in a peace treaty with Palestinians -- nor with the surrounding Arab states. They believe they can impose their will upon the region. Their solution to every problem is more force.

The question Americans today should be asking is this: Why is the US government presently aligned with extremists in Israel and in AIPAC ? Why are we not supporting the more moderate Jewish majority who want peace?

This is the important question. As I indicated -- i thas been obscured by a US media that is almost totally controlled, and does not tell the truth.

As for Obama, he traded his independence for financial support from Wall Street -- which he used to defeat McCain. Obama made a fateful decision -- out of sheer expedience -- to surrender US Mideast policy to the hard line Zionists in return for $$$$$$$.

His appointment of Emanuel -- which puts an Israeli citizen in a key position of control in the White House -- was only the first chit in return for all of that money. Make no mistake, in the coming days Obama will be required again and again to betray the cause of peace.

Obama has already lost control of US Mideast policy, which is now being formulated by Zionists. This means there will be no peace treaty.

In essence, Obama's presidency has ended even before it has begun.

I fear the result will be a catastrophic global war -- because the most important priority in the world today must be a settlement of the Palestinian/Israel conflict -- and a wider regional peace agreement -- - to be followed by withdrawal of US forces from both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Without such an agreement -- the prospects are bleak. Indeed, now that peace is OFF the table -- what is to prevent a wider war? If it happens it will make Iraq look like a warm up.

Folks, this is the reality. It is not a pretty thing.

MHG

You're a bonehead and an anti-Semite. Emanuel is not an Israeli citizen, as I have already pointed out. He was allied with Rabin his whole life and now you're throwing him in with the Hard Right - the people who killed Rabin? You're an idiot. And Hamas is not allied with Iran?!? Are you really this completely whacked? Why don't you bring up the Google on your internets and type in "Hamas and Iran?" This is what you'll get, you ****ing moron.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3512014.ece The Hamas commander, however, confirmed for the first time that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been training its men in Tehran for more than two years and is currently honing the skills of 150 fighters.

Or this?

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad vowed Friday to keep supporting the Palestinian militant group Hamas until the "collapse of Israel."

Of course, now you're going to claim the Zionists control all the media. Right?

[mhgaffney]

Wrong.

Emanuel actually took time off in 1991 to serve in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). You think the nation of Israel allows non-Israelis to do this? Of course not.

In fact, all American Jews are Israeli citizens. This is automatic by virtue of being born Jewish.

Moreover, the US grants the privilege of duel citizenship to only only one nation on earth, and that nation is Israel. Mexicans, Germans, Japanese, Dutch citizens -- even Brits -- must renounce their prior citizenship to become a US citizen. But not Israelis.

This happened in 1967 as a result of a precedent-setting decision by the US Supreme Court.

Here is the full story on US/Israeli dual citizenship -- and believe me it is a shocker.

http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html

[Bronco Bob]

Moreover, the US grants the privilege of duel citizenship to only only one nation on earth, and that nation is Israel. Mexicans, Germans, Japanese, Dutch citizens -- even Brits -- must renounce their prior citizenship to become a US citizen. But not Israelis.



Not true. I know a woman at work who is a Canadian citizen. She was
wearing an "I voted" sticker. I asked her how she could vote. She said
she has dual citizenship. IE, she is a Canadian citizen and a US citizen.

Also Arnold Schwarzenegger has retained his Austrian citizenship, even
though he is the governor of California.

Here is the US Department of State's take on the matter:

Dual Nationality

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two
countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based
on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation
of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign
country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of
the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person
naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country
of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to
choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically
granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However,
a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S.
citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person
must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with
the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S.
Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage
it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of
other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law,
and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens
abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a
stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the
foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries.
Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person
later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use
a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may
also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and
leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S.
citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose
citizenship.

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign
country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can
renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and
consulates abroad.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

[W*GS]

I was pooh-poohed for calling out gaffney as a Jew-hater.

Now we see I was right.

[mhgaffney]

I don't have a problem with dual citizenship - for ordinary citizens.

But it does become an issue for US government officials and military officers who must look after US interests. The issue is one of dual loyalty.

We saw this in the case of Jonathan Pollard, the Israeli spy who had top secret clearance in the US Navy. Pollard gave Isarel the entire store -- and later admitted his primary loyalty was to Israel -- not the US.

Emanuel will be in one of the most sensitive and powerful positions in the US government -- where there must not be any questions about divided loyalty. So his selection is a huge problem for Obama's credibility.

One of our founding fathers, Geo Washington, warned against entangling alliances. Well, the US special relationship with Israel is as entangling as it gets. This is the Mother of all entanglements. We are in up to our ears.

No doubt, Geo Washington is rolling over in his grave.

The danger is that we will be dragged into another world war because hard line Zionists -- and it is now clear Emanuel is of this ilk -- refuse to make peace with the Palestinians and surrounding states -- including Iran.

I have been warning about this for many years -- since the release of my first book, DIMONA THE THIRD TEMPLE? a study of Israel's nuke program (that doesn't exist). In all of this time the problem has only gotten worse. I see a world crisis ahead. We live in perilous times.

MHG

[Rohirrim]

My family has dual Irish citizenship. Hamas' chief sponsor is Iran. Emanuel was part of Rabin's peace movement and not part of the hard Right Zionists. On all issues, Gaff is full of ****.

[Odysseus]

There is a huge amount of anti American sentiment in the world. Europe, Africa, and many countries in the world are thrilled about this election. Our status as a "world" power is important.

Despite Obama's focus on economy he is going to have to solve the Arab / Israel situation. This means at some point he is going to have to talk to leaders who ARE considered terrorist. The fact that Republicans have created so much animosity he literally cannot be seen publicly approaching them until he creates his alliances.

Obama is tough enough for this job but he needs to create some stability to negotiate from.

[cutthemdown]

My family has dual Irish citizenship. Hamas' chief sponsor is Iran. Emanuel was part of Rabin's peace movement and not part of the hard Right Zionists. On all issues, Gaff is full of ****.

He's not a radical by any means but he is right enough to never concede any of Jerusalem to the Palestinians. Also he won't be pushing any peace deals that try and include right of return for refugees into Israel.

Those 2 issues are the big deal breakers for the Palestinians. IMO Emanuel is not the type who has no feeling for the Palestinians, he probably would like to see them not oppressed as much. At same time though I think he is also a realist. He knows that the fabled peace deal is fantasy and will never happen.

I don't think Obama will make the Palestinians a very big part of his policy.

[cutthemdown]

There is a huge amount of anti American sentiment in the world. Europe, Africa, and many countries in the world are thrilled about this election. Our status as a "world" power is important.

Despite Obama's focus on economy he is going to have to solve the Arab / Israel situation. This means at some point he is going to have to talk to leaders who ARE considered terrorist. The fact that Republicans have created so much animosity he literally cannot be seen publicly approaching them until he creates his alliances.

Obama is tough enough for this job but he needs to create some stability to negotiate from.

You just don't fully understand the fact there is no solution because both parties cling to deal breakers the other will never give in on.

It's like thinking you talk Al Davis into paying Shannahan his money. There is just nothing that can make it happen.

Palestinians will not accept anything that doesn't give them half of Jerusalem, Israel will never yield on that unless you take it by war. Palestinians won't accept anything that doesn't allow the refugees who left Israel to return. Israel will never accept that so there are 2 deal breakers.

What would you like Obama to talk about?

IMO Obama won't be focusing on this issue. He will focus on the economy and the war in Afghanistan.

[W*GS]

Yeah, yeah, gaffney.

The world is on the precipice of an all-consuming catastrophe. Peril is at hand.

'Course, you were spreading that same line of **** more than a year ago.

[Meck77]

So how many here are in favor of pissing away another $3,000,000,000 to Israel in January like we've been doing for decades now that our own economy is failing? Raise your hand please.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

See page 12 where they tried to sell some of our secret technology to China and Venezuela. With "friends" like them who needs enemies.

[cutthemdown]

So how many here are in favor of pissing away another $3,000,000,000 to Israel in January like we've been doing for decades now that our own economy is failing? Raise your hand please.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

See page 12 where they tried to sell some of our secret technology to China and Venezuela. With "friends" like them who needs enemies.

I'm for cutting off everyone. If you want something buy it from us. Also that would mean cutting off all the arab countries so it evens out. We give as much to them as we do Israel.

But just cutting of Israel and no one else I would not support Meck. If we cut off all the Arab countries also then fine.

[Meck77]

I'm for cutting off everyone. If you want something buy it from us. Also that would mean cutting off all the arab countries so it evens out. We give as much to them as we do Israel.

But just cutting of Israel and no one else I would not support Meck. If we cut off all the Arab countries also then fine.

I with you. I think they should both be cut off but Obama already took money from the Israeli lobby and his appointment of Emanuel only proves that America is going to do MORE OF THE SAME. Isn't that something considering Obama was the man of change.

[Spider]

I read on the internets that Rahm Emmanuel eats Jewish babies

[kappys]

I with you. I think they should both be cut off but Obama already took money from the Israeli lobby and his appointment of Emanuel only proves that America is going to do MORE OF THE SAME. Isn't that something considering Obama was the man of change.

There is no candidate for change among the Dems or Repubs. Why the surprise?

[Bronco Bob]

I read on the internets that Rahm Emmanuel eats Jewish babies

According to Gaffney it's Palestinian babies.

[Meck77]

There is no candidate for change among the Dems or Repubs. Why the surprise?

You are preaching to the choir. I didn't vote for either of the weasels who sold the American people out with their bailout votes. For crying out loud we're handing out billions upon billions of economic aide and military $$ to countries who drag us into their wars. That's right. Iraq was supposed to be Israel's war. Instead they didn't want to get their hands dirty when Saddam launched scuds at them so our "good friends" allowed us to spill or blood and money for them.

[cutthemdown]

I with you. I think they should both be cut off but Obama already took money from the Israeli lobby and his appointment of Emanuel only proves that America is going to do MORE OF THE SAME. Isn't that something considering Obama was the man of change.

I'm all for giving Israel enough to defend themselves. If they have to take the weapons on loan and pay payments fine, but no free ride.

I wouldn't want to see them go down I just don't think anyone is going to attack them. Palestinians ain't got jack to fight with so no biggie.

[cutthemdown]

According to Gaffney it's Palestinian babies.

As long as it's all Kosher.

[Spider]

According to Gaffney it's Palestinian babies.

;D well you know how internets rumors are

[DenverBrit]

Wrong.
Moreover, the US grants the privilege of duel citizenship to only only one nation on earth, and that nation is Israel. Mexicans, Germans, Japanese, Dutch citizens -- even Brits -- must renounce their prior citizenship to become a US citizen. But not Israelis.


More careful research?? Ha!

[mhgaffney]

I woke up this morning determined to give Obama a chance. Then I read Paul Craig Roberts' latest -- and became depressed all over again.

We've seen peace betrayed too many times to have much trust in Obama or anyone else. I'm willing to give him a chance -- but for how long? When you look at his advisers -- it's the same retreads that have been ****ing our world for too long.
MHG

November 10, 2008


Obama, Rahm-bo and the End of the New American Century

Conned Again?

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

If the change President-elect Obama has promised includes a halt to America’s wars of aggression and an end to the rip-off of taxpayers by powerful financial interests, what explains Obama’s choice of foreign and economic policy advisors? Indeed, Obama’s selection of Rahm Emanuel as White House chief of staff is a signal that change ended with Obama’s election. The only thing different about the new administration will be the faces.

Rahm Emanuel is a supporter of Bush’s invasion of Iraq. Emanuel rose to prominence in the Democratic Party as a result of his fundraising connections to AIPAC. A strong supporter of the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, he comes from a terrorist family. His father was a member of Irgun, a Jewish terrorist organization that used violence to drive the British and Palestinians out of Palestine in order to create the Jewish state. During the 1991 Gulf War, Rahm Emanuel volunteered to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. He was a member of the Freddie Mac board of directors and received $231,655 in directors fees in 2001. According to Wikipedia, “during the time Emanuel spent on the board, Freddie Mac was plagued with scandals involving campaign contributions and accounting irregularities.”

In “Hail to the Chief of Staff,” Alexander Cockburn describes Emanuel as “a super-Likudnik hawk,” who as chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in 2006 “made great efforts to knock out antiwar Democratic candidates.”

My despondent friends in the Israeli peace movement ask, “What is this man doing in Obama’s administration?”

Obama’s election was necessary as the only means Americans had to hold the Republicans accountable for their crimes against the Constitution and human rights, for their violations of US and international laws, for their lies and deceptions, and for their financial chicanery. As an editorial in /Pravda/ put it, “Only Satan would have been worse than the Bush regime. Therefore it could be argued that the new administration in the USA could never be worse than the one which divorced the hearts and minds of Americans from their brothers in the international community, which appalled the rest of the world with shock and awe tactics that included concentration camps, torture, mass murder and utter disrespect for international law.”

But Obama’s advisers are drawn from the same gang of Washington thugs and Wall Street banksters as Bush’s. Richard Holbrooke, was an assistant secretary of state and ambassador in the Clinton administration. He implemented the policy to enlarge NATO and to place the military alliance on Russia’s border in contravention of Reagan’s promise to Gorbachev. Holbrooke is also associated with the Clinton administration’s illegal bombing of Serbia, a war crime that killed civilians and Chinese diplomats. If not a neocon himself, Holbrooke is closely allied with them.

Madeline Albright is the Clinton era secretary of state who told Leslie Stahl (60 Minutes) that the US policy of Iraq sanctions, which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, had goals important enough to justify the children’s deaths. Albright’s infamous words: “we think the price is worth it.” Wikipedia reports that this immoralist served on the board of directors of the New York Stock Exchange at the time of Dick Grasso’s $187.5 million compensation scandal.

Dennis Ross has long associations with the Israeli-Palestinian “peace negotiations.” A member of his Clinton era team, Aaron David Miller, wrote that during 1999-2000 the US negotiating team led by Ross acted as Israel’s lawyer: “we had to run everything by Israel first.” This “stripped our policy of the independence and flexibility required for serious peacemaking. If we couldn't put proposals on the table without checking with the Israelis first, and refused to push back when they said no, how effective could our mediation be?” According to Wikipedia, Ross is “chairman of a new Jerusalem-based think tank, the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute, funded and founded by the Jewish Agency.”

Clearly, this is not a group of advisors that is going to halt America’s wars against Israel’s enemies or force the Israeli government to accept the necessary conditions for a real peace in the Middle East.

Ralph Nader predicted as much. In his “Open Letter to Barack Obama (November 3, 2008), Nader pointed out to Obama that his “transformation from an articulate defender of Palestinian rights . . . to a dittoman for the hard-line AIPAC lobby” puts Obama at odds with “a majority of Jewish-Americans” and “64 per cent of Israelis.” Nader quotes the Israeli writer and peace advocate Uri Avnery’s description of Obama’s appearance before AIPAC as an appearance that “broke all records for obsequiousness and fawning.” Nader damns Obama for his “utter lack of political courage [for] surrendering to demands of the hard-liners to prohibit former president Jimmy Carter from speaking at the Democratic National Convention.” Carter, who achieved the only meaningful peace agreement between Israel and the Arabs, has been demonized by the powerful AIPAC lobby for criticizing Israel’s policy of apartheid toward the Palestinians whose territory Israel forcibly occupies.

Obama’s economic team is just as bad. Its star is Robert Rubin, the bankster who was secretary of the treasury in the Clinton administration. Rubin has responsibility for the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act and, thereby, responsibility for the current financial crisis. In his letter to Obama, Nader points out that Obama received unprecedented campaign contributions from corporate and Wall Street interests. “Never before has a Democratic nominee for President achieved this supremacy over his Republican counterpart.”

Obama’s victory speech was magnificent. The TV cameras scanning faces in the audience showed the hope and belief that propelled Obama into the presidency. But Obama cannot bring change to Washington. There is no one in the Washington crowd that he can appoint who is capable of bringing change. If Obama were to reach outside the usual crowd, anyone suspected of being a bringer of change could not get confirmed by the Senate. Powerful interest groups--AIPAC, the military-security complex, Wall Street--use their political influence to block unacceptable appointments.

As Alexander Cockburn said of Obama in a pre-eection column, column “never has the dead hand of the past had a ‘reform’ candidate so firmly by the windpipe.” Obama confirmed Cockburn’s verdict in his first press conference as president-elect. Disregarding the unanimous US National Intelligence Estimate, which concluded that Iran stopped working on nuclear weapons five years ago, and ignoring the continued certification by the International Atomic Energy Agency that none of the nuclear material for Iran’s civilian nuclear reactor has been diverted to weapons use, Obama sallied forth with the Israel Lobby’s propaganda and accused Iran of “development of a nuclear weapon” and vowing “to prevent that from happening.”

The change that is coming to America has nothing to do with Obama. Change is coming from the financial crisis brought on by Wall Street greed and irresponsibility, from the eroding role of the US dollar as reserve currency, from countless mortgage foreclosures, from the offshoring of millions of America’s best jobs, from a deepening recession, from pillars of American manufacturing--Ford and GM--begging the government for taxpayers’ money to stay alive, and from budget and trade deficits that are too large to be closed by normal means.

Traditionally, the government relies on monetary and fiscal policy to lift the economy out of recession. But easy money is not working. Interest rates are already low and monetary growth is already high, yet unemployment is rising. The budget deficit is already huge--a world record--and the red ink is not stimulating the economy. Can even lower interest rates and even higher budget deficits help an economy that has moved offshore, leaving behind jobless consumers overburdened with debt?

How much more can the government borrow? America’s foreign creditors are asking this question. An official organ of the Chinese ruling party recently called for Asian and European countries to “banish the US dollar from their direct trade relations, relying only on their own currencies.”

“Why,” asks another Chinese publication, “should China help the US to issue debt without end in the belief that the national credit of the US can expand without limit?”

The world has tired of American hegemony and had its fill of American arrogance. America’s reputation is in tatters: the financial debacle, endless red ink, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, rendition, torture, illegal wars based on lies and deception, disrespect for the sovereignty of other countries, war crimes, disregard for international law and the Geneva Conventions, the assault on habeas corpus and the separation of powers, a domestic police state, constant interference in the internal affairs of other countries, boundless hypocrisy.

The change that is coming is the end of American empire. The hegemon has run out of money and influence. Obama as “America’s First Black President” will lift hopes and, thus, allow the act to be carried on a little longer. But the New American Century is already over.

*Paul Craig Roberts* was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0307396061/counterpunchmaga>. He can be reached at: PaulCraigRoberts@yahoo.com <mailto:PaulCraigRoberts@yahoo.com>

[W*GS]

gaffney's use of PCR as support of his views...

The circle is complete. I'll let everyone else determine what kind of circle it is.

[mhgaffney]

The fact of the matter is that Rohirrim is wrong. Emanuel IS an Israeli citizen -- and for that matter so are many of the neocons who gave us the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Rohirrim]

Roberts, Cockburn and Nader: A triumverate of boobs.

I'm still trying to figure out why people can't just wait until Obama actually takes some action before judging him. I realize that for such reasonable action you'd actually have to wait until January 20th, but time is just part of the reality struggle, folks. This place is turning into a veritable orchard of fruits and nuts. You've got the Right Wing mouth breathers in full melt-down foam-over and the extreme Left who are already putting Obama in some kind of neo-Nixon overcoat. Take a pill. Bush is still president. There are bad enough realities to contemplate without indulging in fantasy apocalyptica.

[Rohirrim]

Here's the funny part that occurred to me: A month ago, the Right was tearing into Obama for his meetings with Khalidi who the Right foamed was "spokesman" for the PLO. They slimed Obama as a PLO sympathizer, blah, blah, blah. Now, a month later, he selects Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff in the WH and what have we got? He sold his soul to Likud! Tel Aviv owns his ass. AIPAC is Obama's master! Such is the steaming cow pie called American politics.

[cutthemdown]

Here's the funny part that occurred to me: A month ago, the Right was tearing into Obama for his meetings with Khalidi who the Right foamed was "spokesman" for the PLO. They slimed Obama as a PLO sympathizer, blah, blah, blah. Now, a month later, he selects Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff in the WH and what have we got? He sold his soul to Likud! Tel Aviv owns his ass. AIPAC is Obama's master! Such is the steaming cow pie called American politics.

I wasn't saying either of those things.

All I'm saying is Obama with what he has said and with his pick of Emanuel has shown he will be a friend to Israel. That doesn't mean he won't try and help the Palestinians but he won't be asking for Jerusalem or right of refugee return.

I could see Obama trying to put an end to Jewish settlements taking more land.

[cutthemdown]

The fact of the matter is that Rohirrim is wrong. Emanuel IS an Israeli citizen -- and for that matter so are many of the neocons who gave us the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Let's face it maybe like 80% of Americans support Israel. Even Democrats. Since you hate Jews no matter who gets elected will probably support Israel. You will never be happy and get to watch the Israelis lose a huge war because we cut them off.

Oh well you still have old movies on the holocaust you can watch for fun.

[Rohirrim]

I wasn't saying either of those things.

All I'm saying is Obama with what he has said and with his pick of Emanuel has shown he will be a friend to Israel. That doesn't mean he won't try and help the Palestinians but he won't be asking for Jerusalem or right of refugee return.

I could see Obama trying to put an end to Jewish settlements taking more land.

We actually have no idea what it means. Obama might just be living up to his word about having all these voices around him so he can have a wealth of opinions from every quarter. I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for advice from Khalidi when he's sworn in either. The Emanuel pick for chief might have more to do with his penchant for discipline and political smarts than it does with his Israel connection.

Everybody is just jumping to conclusions like shocked rabbits because that's how our electronic news junkie culture operates.

[cutthemdown]

We actually have no idea what it means. Obama might just be living up to his word about having all these voices around him so he can have a wealth of opinions from every quarter. I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for advice from Khalidi when he's sworn in either. The Emanuel pick for chief might have more to do with his penchant for discipline and political smarts than it does with his Israel connection.

So you think Obama lied when he went to Israel and said to them i won't support Jerusalem being divided. It will always be the Jewish capital. You think he would go back on that?

And you do realize that is a deal breaker to any peace deal right?

I think like you say you have to wait and see, but to say we have no idea what that means is wrong. We have a good idea what Emanual and Obama's statements mean. It mean IMO that the Palestinians won't be high on Obama's radar, at least first term.

[Rohirrim]

So you think Obama lied when he went to Israel and said to them i won't support Jerusalem being divided. It will always be the Jewish capital. You think he would go back on that?

And you do realize that is a deal breaker to any peace deal right?

I think like you say you have to wait and see, but to say we have no idea what that means is wrong. We have a good idea what Emanual and Obama's statements mean. It mean IMO that the Palestinians won't be high on Obama's radar, at least first term.

Well, in purely American terms, why should they be? I go back to Ron Paul's original query; What business is it of ours?

[cutthemdown]

Well, in purely American terms, why should they be? I go back to Ron Paul's original query; What business is it of ours?

Exactly but to most of the left it is a big deal. I don't doubt that you probably could care less you just hated Bush/McCain and any republicans more then you liked Obama. For sure though lefties like Gaff and LABF probably won't be happy when Obama keeps the status quo when it come to Israel.

[Odysseus]

Here's the funny part that occurred to me: A month ago, the Right was tearing into Obama for his meetings with Khalidi who the Right foamed was "spokesman" for the PLO. They slimed Obama as a PLO sympathizer, blah, blah, blah. Now, a month later, he selects Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff in the WH and what have we got? He sold his soul to Likud! Tel Aviv owns his ass. AIPAC is Obama's master! Such is the steaming cow pie called American politics.

The game is to throw fantasy facts on the wall until one of them sticks.

Most of the main stream governments in the world are honoring the concept of a honeymoon and waiting to see what Barack does. All the common sense people are not making up things to hide their own fears.

Barack is taking his time and getting his team in place. Barack intends to LEAD the Democrats early. The ONLY way to do that is getting all his players in place.

I don't think most people get it. Rahm works FOR Barack. Barack is going to run his office just like he ran his campaign. He isn't going to allow a lot of drama and if it's waste he's getting rid of it.

The press is trying to force him into saying something. Barack needs to keep his mouth shut until he gets his ducks in a row.

[mhgaffney]

Let's face it maybe like 80% of Americans support Israel. Even Democrats. Since you hate Jews no matter who gets elected will probably support Israel. You will never be happy and get to watch the Israelis lose a huge war because we cut them off.

Oh well you still have old movies on the holocaust you can watch for fun.


Huh?

What in the Hell are you talking about? You are just as clueless as Rohirrim.

In the first place I do NOT hate Jews. What I hate are the violent and immoral policies of the Israeli government. They have created the world's largest concentration camp in Gaza. You support this?

All of the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law. Do you believe in law -- or the mailed fist?

I support a Jewish state alongside a Palestinian state.

I support the majority of Israelis who want to return land for peace -- and to live in peace side by side the Palestinians.

You are extremely confused ---just like Rohirrim.

No one on this board has answered my question:

WHY IS THE US SUPPORTING THE MOST EXTREME ELEMENTS IN ISRAEL -- INSTEAD OF SUPPORTING THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS WHO WANT A PEACE SETTLEMENT WITH THE PALESTINIANS?

I am still waiting for an answer.

MHG

[Rohirrim]

The game is to throw fantasy facts on the wall until one of them sticks.

Most of the main stream governments in the world are honoring the concept of a honeymoon and waiting to see what Barack does. All the common sense people are not making up things to hide their own fears.

Barack is taking his time and getting his team in place. Barack intends to LEAD the Democrats early. The ONLY way to do that is getting all his players in place.

I don't think most people get it. Rahm works FOR Barack. Barack is going to run his office just like he ran his campaign. He isn't going to allow a lot of drama and if it's waste he's getting rid of it.

The press is trying to force him into saying something. Barack needs to keep his mouth shut until he gets his ducks in a row.

We should also face the reality that it is doubtful Obama is going to have the luxury of governing the focus of his efforts. Events will dictate his focus, starting with the economy. Then, there's Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Taliban movement that killed Bhutto is working to take over the Pakistan government. Just imagine the Taliban with nukes. Nice.

And Gaff, you remind me of my dog. He chases and barks at every squirrel that runs through the trees in my yard. He'll never catch one. But he never stops jumping and barking at them. Settle down. See what Obama does before you judge.

[Odysseus]

We should also face the reality that it is doubtful Obama is going to have the luxury of governing the focus of his efforts. Events will dictate his focus, starting with the economy. Then, there's Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Taliban movement that killed Bhutto is working to take over the Pakistan government. Just imagine the Taliban with nukes. Nice.

And Gaff, you remind me of my dog. He chases and barks at every squirrel that runs through the trees in my yard. He'll never catch one. But he never stops jumping and barking at them. Settle down. See what Obama does before you judge.

Obama has to fix OUR world view the same time he's fixing the world's view of us. He has rebuild our economy without any money and at the same time convince the world to invest in us...again.

We are going to have to make some very strange alliances in order to survive some very mean turbulence. It's going to a combination of states craft and stage craft to get through this mess.

I am really happy that Obama is negotiating with Bush early. He is making himself clear without embarassing Bush publicly. He's being really smart and the things that people are trying to throw rocks at him about are so stupid.

[Odysseus]

So how many here are in favor of pissing away another $3,000,000,000 to Israel in January like we've been doing for decades now that our own economy is failing? Raise your hand please.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

See page 12 where they tried to sell some of our secret technology to China and Venezuela. With "friends" like them who needs enemies.

Do you really think International politics is that simple?

[kappys]

WHY IS THE US SUPPORTING THE MOST EXTREME ELEMENTS IN ISRAEL -- INSTEAD OF SUPPORTING THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS WHO WANT A PEACE SETTLEMENT WITH THE PALESTINIANS?



MHG

You might as well ask why the Isreali government is ignoring the majority of its citizens.

By claiming the US is supporting extreme Isreali elements I assume you are excluding the population of the US which supports international law and a real 2 state solution(not the apartheid wall that has been built).

The answer is simple. Neither country is a real democracy.

[Spider]

:

WHY IS THE US SUPPORTING THE MOST EXTREME ELEMENTS IN ISRAEL -- INSTEAD OF SUPPORTING THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS WHO WANT A PEACE SETTLEMENT WITH THE PALESTINIANS?

I am still waiting for an answer.

MHG

normally I just skim your post , or blow right by them , you are nuttier then a fruit cake , but this one I will answer ............. There is no profit in peace

[mhgaffney]

Here's the funny part that occurred to me: A month ago, the Right was tearing into Obama for his meetings with Khalidi who the Right foamed was "spokesman" for the PLO. They slimed Obama as a PLO sympathizer, blah, blah, blah. Now, a month later, he selects Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff in the WH and what have we got? He sold his soul to Likud! Tel Aviv owns his ass. AIPAC is Obama's master! Such is the steaming cow pie called American politics.

I am acquainted with Rashid Khalidi. He is an excellent scholar -- was at the University of Chicago until he took a position at Columbia University.

The Obama campaign gave credence to the attacks from the right (which were without basis) by the shabby way they treated Khalidi. This was inexcusable.

Khalidi was never a spokesperson for the PLO. Khalidi was attacked simply because he is a Palestinian -- for no other raeson. It was pure racism - and Obama flunked the test of a true leader.

MHG

[Spider]

I am acquainted with Rashid Khalidi. He is an excellent scholar -- was at the University of Chicago until he took a position at Columbia University.

The Obama campaign gave credence to the attacks from the right (which were without basis) by the shabby way they treated Khalidi. This was inexcusable.

Khalidi was never a spokesperson for the PLO. Khalidi was attacked simply because he is a Palestinian -- for no other raeson. It was pure racism - and Obama flunked the test of a true leader.

MHG

well maybe we should have a bake sale and give all the money to Khaoh whats his face to make up for it ...... maybe a we are sorry card ? dozen roses ?
there got to be something we can do to right this wrong ...........