Obama's Election By Anglo Americans Shows Well for Americans

[epicSocialism4tw]

We all have noticed that the liberal media (MSN, ABC, CBS, etc) have hit the ground running with headlines focused on the skin color of Obama rather than what he brings into office and the huge task ahead of him.

This is a moment that they are using to reflect on racial issues.

I would argue that this is not a moment to celebrate the achievement of a "race", but as the achievement of a nation.

Within two generations, racial boundaries have been dissolved enough to allow for a man of mixed race descent to be elected to the most powerful position in the country...and the world for that matter.

Congrats to the churches and people that butressed the underground railroad and the Civil Rights integration movement in the 1960's for leading the charge against racial inequality and for standing against other anglo-descended people of their generations.

Their work stands complete.

[barryr]

Only guys like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, among other race pimps, will be put out of business with Obama in charge, so what are they going to do? Notice how neither one of them was that big in Obama's campaign. Did they truly want Obama to win? Hmm.

[footstepsfrom#27]

We all have noticed that the liberal media (MSN, ABC, CBS, etc) have hit the ground running with headlines focused on the skin color of Obama rather than what he brings into office and the huge task ahead of him.

This is a moment that they are using to reflect on racial issues.

I would argue that this is not a moment to celebrate the achievement of a "race", but as the achievement of a nation.

Within two generations, racial boundaries have been dissolved enough to allow for a man of mixed race descent to be elected to the most powerful position in the country...and the world for that matter.

Congrats to the churches and people that butressed the underground railroad and the Civil Rights integration movement in the 1960's for leading the charge against racial inequality and for standing against other anglo-descended people of their generations.

Their work stands complete.
Yeah...one of the shrewdest political figures in the last generation...a guy who was editor of the Harvard Law Review, a professor of Constitutional Law at Columbia and one of the best orators in modern pollitical history beats up on George Bush's disgraced coattails against an aging, coruption tainted old man and now...EUREKA! The work is complete!

All is well with the world... :sunshine: ...we've finally evolved.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Yeah...one of the shrewdest political figures in the last generation...a guy who was editor of the Harvard Law Review, a professor of Constitutional Law at Columbia and one of the best orators in modern pollitical history beats up on George Bush's disgraced coattails against an aging, coruption tainted old man and now...EUREKA! The work is complete!

All is well with the world... :sunshine: ...we've finally evolved.

The point stands unsullied against the backdrop of known world history.

This country is an international beacon for the importance of improved interrace relations, and Obamas election by those are the great-grandchildren of people who would have never thought of electing a black person to a position of importance in their own community have voted a black man to the presidency shows an undeniable change in worldview.

Its over. Excuses aside.

[rugbythug]

Yeah...one of the shrewdest political figures in the last generation...a guy who was editor of the Harvard Law Review, a professor of Constitutional Law at Columbia and one of the best orators in modern pollitical history beats up on George Bush's disgraced coattails against an aging, coruption tainted old man and now...EUREKA! The work is complete!

All is well with the world... :sunshine: ...we've finally evolved.
Is your glass half full of poop or half empty?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Is your glass half full of poop or half empty?
Just bringing a bit of realism to the "we're the nternational beacon" crowd who are busy patting themselves on the back because it only took us 232 years, and an Ivy League professor with millions to spend in order for us to strike this blow for us and live up to the first paragraph of our own Declaration of Independence....like we're now the grand champions of race relations or something. The truth is we were dragged here kicking and screaming every inch of the way and there are plenty who would love to roll back history to the '50's if they could do so.

Obama being elected is historic and amazing. Let's not suggest it solves all our problems because it doesn't. It's a huge start down that road however...I just hope we continue making progress.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Its over. Excuses aside.
What is over? And what excuses are you referring to?

[rastaman]

Only guys like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, among other race pimps, will be put out of business with Obama in charge, so what are they going to do? Notice how neither one of them was that big in Obama's campaign. Did they truly want Obama to win? Hmm.

Jackson and Sharpton were leaders in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. They have served their purposes and it is time to move on. Both will find their niche in the 21st Century but not nearly on a grand scale they enjoyed in the 20th Century.

As for the Republican Party, it must do some soul searching as well! Can the GOP make a come back under the model of Lee Atwater, Karl Rove, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, or will the GOP realize the afore mentions are all relics of the 20th Century. Will conservatives, Republicans and the GOP itself
stubbornly continue to use 20th century campaign strategies in the 21st Century and continue down the road of irrelevance?

Have the GOP finally realized that perhaps going back to her GOP roots of Eisenhower and Goldwater is their only hope to returning to respectability!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Just bringing a bit of realism to the "we're the nternational beacon" crowd who are busy patting themselves on the back because it only took us 232 years, and an Ivy League professor with millions to spend in order for us to strike this blow for us and live up to the first paragraph of our own Declaration of Independence....like we're now the grand champions of race relations or something. The truth is we were dragged here kicking and screaming every inch of the way and there are plenty who would love to roll back history to the '50's if they could do so.

Obama being elected is historic and amazing. Let's not suggest it solves all our problems because it doesn't. It's a huge start down that road however...I just hope we continue making progress.

A huge start? That is the understatement of the year. This was not a start, but evidence of the END!

This generation elected a black president. Expect to see the race carders and race baiters as marginalized as white supremacists. It is now normal for Joe Blackguy to posess the rights and respect that Joe Whiteguy would get in their communities. Of course there is a continuum, but the precedent is set.

The goal is not to change the minds of bigots. Just as the Christian-haters or the anti-Jew crowds, there will be cultural division of some sort in isolated groups. The goal is to open up the path to the American dream.

If a black president is possible, then anything is.

That is what has put a smile of the face of black people around the country, and that is why they came out to vote.

[cutthemdown]

It will still be awhile before blacks don't feel they are the underdog. This is a huge win for race equality but to say racism doesn't exist is wrong. There are still white people who get passed over for jobs because of affirmative action.

:)

[The Lone Bolt]

I wouldn't say that Obama's election demonstrates that racism is defeated, but rather that it can be overcome. His election proves that manifest intelligence, charisma, and strength are stronger than racism.

[footstepsfrom#27]

A huge start? That is the understatement of the year. This was not a start, but evidence of the END!
It's nowhere near that. The fact is, what we just witnessed was the perfect storm of opportunity for one of the most savvy political minds of our times running against the coat tails of an utterly disgraced president with the lowest approval ratings any of us have ever seen. If he were white he'd probably have won by Reagan-like proportions. Nor does the fact that a black guy is in the oval office change the thousands of day to day things that occur in this country which prop up a racist mindset. Have we fixed our educationaly apartheid in public education? No. Have we fixed the huge inequities in our justice system? No. Have we suddenly ushered Tyrone and Dexter into the corporate board room? No. This is what I said it was...a great beginning...but this is still a long road.
It is now normal for Joe Blackguy to posess the rights and respect that Joe Whiteguy would get in their communities. Of course there is a continuum, but the precedent is set.
Complete nonsense.
The goal is not to change the minds of bigots. Just as the Christian-haters or the anti-Jew crowds, there will be cultural division of some sort in isolated groups. The goal is to open up the path to the American dream.
Fair enough...but that dream is not going to be realized until we do things like fix public education for inner cities and solve inequities in the justice system. Obama's election offers hope for change but that hope is not yet realized. One could just as easily say that the Emancipation Proclamation or the Voting Rights Act ended this struggle and clearly they didn't.
If a black president is possible, then anything is.

That is what has put a smile of the face of black people around the country, and that is why they came out to vote.
It's also why I came out to vote...and it wasn't to see this guy elected and then close the book on the struggle for civil rights and equality in this country. I voted for the changes that he would bring with him and those that would follow after...as they did also.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Never before has a candidate benefitted more from Affirmative Action than our president elect. Among the list of McCain's faults--not being black and not spending 20 years of his life engulfed in racist drivel. America placed skin color over qualification in the primaries and in the general election and yet it is McCain voters who are branded 'racist'.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Never before has a candidate benefitted more from Affirmative Action than our president elect. Among the list of McCain's faults--not being black and not spending 20 years of his life engulfed in racist drivel. America placed skin color over qualification in the primaries and in the general election and yet it is McCain voters who are branded 'racist'.
You're a bigger moron than I thought.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Never before has a candidate benefitted more from Affirmative Action than our president elect. Among the list of McCain's faults--not being black and not spending 20 years of his life engulfed in racist drivel. America placed skin color over qualification in the primaries and in the general election and yet it is McCain voters who are branded 'racist'.

What a despicable racist POS you are. :oyvey:

[Bronco Bob]

Never before has a candidate benefitted more from Affirmative Action than our president elect. Among the list of McCain's faults--not being black and not spending 20 years of his life engulfed in racist drivel. America placed skin color over qualification in the primaries and in the general election and yet it is McCain voters who are branded 'racist'.

The racist pricks sure come out of the woodwork whenever a black man is discussed.

Yeah, I'll bet you think Champ Bailey, Eddie Royal, and Brandon Marshall
also just got their jobs because of affirmative action, did nothing to
earn it on their own.

[spdirty]

Yet my ****ed up state still does not have the stomach to vote to end racial and sex discrimmination. Its OK, we will legally work the dubass racist system to our advantage.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Jesus was not a community organizer, and he would most likely find the actions of ACORN as, well, sinful.

Ha ha ha! :laugh:

ACORN, Mickey Mouse, and Tony Romo stole the election.

:Whaaaa!: :mullet1:

[epicSocialism4tw]

What a despicable racist POS you are. :oyvey:

LA needs to chill with this kind of talk.

[Rohirrim]

Never before has a candidate benefitted more from Affirmative Action than our president elect. Among the list of McCain's faults--not being black and not spending 20 years of his life engulfed in racist drivel. America placed skin color over qualification in the primaries and in the general election and yet it is McCain voters who are branded 'racist'.

I nominate this clown as ****head of the Board. Seconds?

[epicSocialism4tw]

It's nowhere near that. The fact is, what we just witnessed was the perfect storm of opportunity for one of the most savvy political minds of our times running against the coat tails of an utterly disgraced president with the lowest approval ratings any of us have ever seen. If he were white he'd probably have won by Reagan-like proportions. Nor does the fact that a black guy is in the oval office change the thousands of day to day things that occur in this country which prop up a racist mindset. Have we fixed our educationaly apartheid in public education? No. Have we fixed the huge inequities in our justice system? No. Have we suddenly ushered Tyrone and Dexter into the corporate board room? No. This is what I said it was...a great beginning...but this is still a long road.

These are problems that have to be addressed from within the community. Someone needs to stand up against race-baiting leeches like Sharpton, Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, etc. and begin to instill values in the poor communities instead of promoting excuses and a feeling of helplessness. Its nobody's fault but their own that they choose to live a life selling drugs or being even marginally involved in the criminal life. The door is open for a legit career for anyone without felonies, and that still isnt a reason to fold up the tent. You could own your own small business doing lawns or whatever and make money to support a family.

Its not the justice system's fault. That's an excuse, and a poor one at that.

As I said before. This is not a beginning, it is evidence of the END.

It may be the beginning if your goal is for black supremacy as opposed to equality.

Fair enough...but that dream is not going to be realized until we do things like fix public education for inner cities and solve inequities in the justice system. Obama's election offers hope for change but that hope is not yet realized. One could just as easily say that the Emancipation Proclamation or the Voting Rights Act ended this struggle and clearly they didn't.

This is a crock.

There are resources available in the inner city. Churches, Boys and Girls clubs, mentors and all sorts of things are available to inner city families that arent available by any other means but working/social networks to upper class families. The government doesnt sponsor daycare for the local Dentist. The external resources are there in the inner city.

You need to talk about whats NOT there to get to the root of the problem, and this is were idiots like Sharpton have wrecked the ship for decades. The problem is that nobody wants to take responsibility for their lives. Everybody is in jail or on their way there because their dad, mom, uncle, aunt, and "cousins" are either there, have been there, or have close family members that they depend on who have not contributed to the growth of the family because they are unavailable because they either bailed or got put in the pen.

Someone needs to stand up and say that life is hard. Its not easy. If you choose to do nothing all day, you will reap what you sow. If you choose to rob a man with an AK47, there is a high probability that you will go to jail. If you decide that your kids arent important to you and you leave, they will suffer the consequences and you may just ruin most of their lives. If you dont get educated, you will not be equipped for a good job.

These are the simple things that arent understood in inner city communities. Life isnt easy for anybody, but there is no reason to throw in the towel and quit trying to live a decent life.

[TailgateNut]

Never before has a candidate benefitted more from Affirmative Action than our president elect. Among the list of McCain's faults--not being black and not spending 20 years of his life engulfed in racist drivel. America placed skin color over qualification in the primaries and in the general election and yet it is McCain voters who are branded 'racist'.

This shows your "true colors". Some have followed creation and not evolved, some of us have evolved.

[Bronco Bob]

I nominate this clown as ****head of the Board. Seconds?

Seconded.

[footstepsfrom#27]

These are problems that have to be addressed from within the community. Someone needs to stand up against race-baiting leeches like Sharpton, Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, etc. and begin to instill values in the poor communities instead of promoting excuses and a feeling of helplessness.
You and I will never agree on these issues. You've worked in the NPO community where you come accross the problems in the community and i give you credit for that but IMO you still view these issues through the eyes of how you were trained to see them from a white perspective. I see them from a perspective of having come out of that mindset and spending 12 years going through a transformation in thinking that is generated both by introspective analysis and by virtue of the fact that I have a front row seat to these issues within my own family on a daily basis. The difference in our perspective comes from the fact that you identify black people as "them"...even as you work in the community with "them"...no doubt with the best of intentions...I do not question that. I on the other hand identify "them" as MY people...I am white...but my own identity is deeply rooted inside black America...these are MY PEOPLE...not "them"...that is a distinction you will never understand without a transformational change in your own mind. It's spiritual and deeply personal and it has nothing to do with facts, statistics, philosophical approaches to these issues...it's about WHO YOU ARE...it's about choosing a route to understanding that begins with assuming nothing and deciding you are going to be open to the truth no matter what it reveals.

Therein lies the separation in our thinking. Perfect example: if you were embeded inside the black community in terms of your identity, instead of working in it externally and detached from it, you'd know that Sharpton, Jackson, et all...are basically already yesterday's news for the vast majority of blacks. Their influence in terms of how the civil rights question is defined began to wane 10 years ago and was replaced by a move towards business develolpment, entrepreneurship and econmic empowerment. It's whites who feel the need to waste time "standing up" to these guys...most blacks active in civil rights discussions and strategy mostly ignore them. Their appeal is largely only to the bottom of the social and econonic totem pole, and that demographic is not active in framing these discussions anyway.
Its nobody's fault but their own that they choose to live a life selling drugs or being even marginally involved in the criminal life. The door is open for a legit career for anyone without felonies, and that still isnt a reason to fold up the tent. You could own your own small business doing lawns or whatever and make money to support a family.
Your statement is insulting, though I know you are probably unaware of that and don't intend it that way. First of all, it implies characteristic normalcy to the things you describe. Second, it ignores the reality that people are unable to change generational patterns of thinking merely because a few things change in terms of opportunities. If you were raised your entire life to believe you were inferior or second class and in fact your entire geneology was built on that fact for hundreds of years, AND the reality that defined your life was violence, poverty, racism and disdain from the larger society...you would find it infinitely more complicated than you do now. Your thoughts also suggest a lack of understanding about what is actually happening in the black community NOW. College educated black men are twice as likely as their caucasion counterparts to start their own businesses, and black women in general are creating businesses 5 times faster than the rest of the US economy. They are in fact, the fastest growing entrepreneurial demographic in the country. So statements about lawn businesses etc...they betray the fact that you're unaware of the realities shaping black society now.
Its not the justice system's fault. That's an excuse, and a poor one at that.
It's not an excuse at all, it's reality. The US imprisons more of it's citizens than any nation on earth. 1/3 of black men ages 18-49 in America are either incarcerated by the penal system or under current supervision through parole or probation. That figures rises to a devestating 1/2 in urban areas. The discrepancies in our justice system are overwhelmingly disproportionately biased towards blacks. This discussion has been had before in here and dozens of studies support this. These historical inequities still exist today and they have a devestating impact on black family life.

Your characterization of this issue follows the same pathway each time...and it is marked by a focus on attempting to define the problems and suggesting that "they" need to do x or y to solve the problem. However that is not the focus you want if you're looking at how these issues can be fixed. The focus ought to be on finding ways of changing outcomes not just saying what you think is wrong.
It may be the beginning if your goal is for black supremacy as opposed to equality.
You will never have to worry about black supremacy in this country. Our American institutions are deeply engrained with centuries old ways of thinking that have been designed to create the inequities we see around us. These things do not happen in a vaccum, they are the result of intelligent design tracking back hundreds of years.
There are resources available in the inner city. Churches, Boys and Girls clubs, mentors and all sorts of things are available to inner city families that arent available by any other means but working/social networks to upper class families. The government doesnt sponsor daycare for the local Dentist. The external resources are there in the inner city.
Have you seen some of those resources? No suburban middle class family would wish themselves to be recipients of these services. Dentists don't need government sponsored day care so that's an absurd straw man argument. The reason these resources exist in the first place is because they are so desperately needed. Also, your characterization of resources as abundant is utterly untrue given the current state of budget cuts in many of these government programs. Schools are the prime example. Education is supposed to be a public service, but that service is apportioned to the poor in highly inadequate ways and this is not even debateable. There is no excuse for funding suburban schools with more than we fund inner city schools...none whatsoever.
You need to talk about whats NOT there to get to the root of the problem, and this is were idiots like Sharpton have wrecked the ship for decades.
Sharpton has nothing to do with what is not there. Sharpton is merely a sad charicature of bafoonery propped up by the white media to create the impression that he is somehow typical of black leadership, when in fact most people who listen to him are white, not black.
The problem is that nobody wants to take responsibility for their lives. Everybody is in jail or on their way there because their dad, mom, uncle, aunt, and "cousins" are either there, have been there, or have close family members that they depend on who have not contributed to the growth of the family because they are unavailable because they either bailed or got put in the pen.

Someone needs to stand up and say that life is hard. Its not easy. If you choose to do nothing all day, you will reap what you sow. If you choose to rob a man with an AK47, there is a high probability that you will go to jail. If you decide that your kids arent important to you and you leave, they will suffer the consequences and you may just ruin most of their lives. If you dont get educated, you will not be equipped for a good job.

These are the simple things that arent understood in inner city communities.
This is a classic example of what I'm talking about. Do you seriously think that blacks in the inner city need to be told by whites that "life is hard"? Or that they are unaware of consequences to actions? This smacks of the worst kind of arrogance, one that assumes that not only are their societal problems divorced from the actions WE visited on them for 400 years, but in fact they are so ignorant and unable to even recognize their own problems that they need to be told? That's utterly preposterous. There are tens of thousands of black leaders all accross this nation in every community who are mentoring kids, giving back to their communities through their businesses or their time, volunteering in organizations or just looking out for the neighbors kids. You dont' see this because you are not embedded in these communities. You see them from your prior race-dedicated view of things as it's been shown you.

Let's take the case of black history. If you went to a suburban school system you were never taught anything beyond a smidgen of black history. Yet this is an enormous and extremely influencial factor in our own history. Even black school children are rarely taught their own history in school. This is WRONG and it's also IMMORAL because it's part of the continuation of what WE did to THEM in slavery...we stole their identity, tried to force them to assimilate into OUR society and see the world as we see it. What gives us this right? We could solve many of the problems we see in the black community if white school children were educated about black history and the history of African culture both before and after blacks came to America. Will we do this? Absoltuely not...it would force us to admit the part we play in the current disaster...it would force US to assume OUR responsibility for what has happened...and that's the last thing we want to do. It's much easier to say "you have opportunity so what's wrong with you? We have given you "equality" so there must be something wrong with you if you're not doing as well as we are."
Life isnt easy for anybody, but there is no reason to throw in the towel and quit trying to live a decent life.
Actually life is easy for a great many people, most of whom are white...and comparatively few people in the black community have "thrown in the towell" as you put it. Given the 400 years of abuse we have heaped on black in America...the progress they've made in the last 40 years is astounding and beyond amazing. I question whether we would have done as well if the roles had been reversed.

[epicSocialism4tw]

You and I will never agree on these issues.

You are well entrenched, and I am as well. This we agree on.

You've worked in the NPO community where you come accross the problems in the community and i give you credit for that but IMO you still view these issues through the eyes of how you were trained to see them from a white perspective.

This is lazy, unschooled opinion.

I come from a generation where racial issues DO NOT exist on a macro level. This is different from your experience. You feel like you are fighting against your generation. I do not. My generation doesn't have that battle to fight.

I see them from a perspective of having come out of that mindset and spending 12 years going through a transformation in thinking that is generated both by introspective analysis and by virtue of the fact that I have a front row seat to these issues within my own family on a daily basis.

Your experience is only worth what you have described to you alone. I have a different experience, of the same breadth of time, that involves family relationships with many black families and families from other ethnic backgrounds as well.

Explaining to me how your experience happens to be the valuable one of the two does not hold any importance in a discussion like this.

The discussion should be about what is available NOW, and not about the past. Every individual is born into the world with a will and a certain amount of resources. There are more resources for black people below the poverty level in America than in nearly all of the world.


The difference in our perspective comes from the fact that you identify black people as "them"...even as you work in the community with "them"...no doubt with the best of intentions...I do not question that. I on the other hand identify "them" as MY people...I am white...but my own identity is deeply rooted inside black America...these are MY PEOPLE...not "them"...that is a distinction you will never understand without a transformational change in your own mind. It's spiritual and deeply personal and it has nothing to do with facts, statistics, philosophical approaches to these issues...it's about WHO YOU ARE...it's about choosing a route to understanding that begins with assuming nothing and deciding you are going to be open to the truth no matter what it reveals.

It is fundamental as a follower of Jesus to believe that any person born of the spirit is, in fact, a member of your family.

That's where a christian's base should be...not in sentimentiality.

Therein lies the separation in our thinking. Perfect example: if you were embeded inside the black community in terms of your identity, instead of working in it externally and detached from it, you'd know that Sharpton, Jackson, et all...are basically already yesterday's news for the vast majority of blacks. Their influence in terms of how the civil rights question is defined began to wane 10 years ago and was replaced by a move towards business develolpment, entrepreneurship and econmic empowerment. It's whites who feel the need to waste time "standing up" to these guys...most blacks active in civil rights discussions and strategy mostly ignore them. Their appeal is largely only to the bottom of the social and econonic totem pole, and that demographic is not active in framing these discussions anyway.

I think that you have gone a long way in misunderstanding my thesis here. My thesis involves those at the bottom of the totem pole.

Your statement is insulting, though I know you are probably unaware of that and don't intend it that way. First of all, it implies characteristic normalcy to the things you describe. Second, it ignores the reality that people are unable to change generational patterns of thinking merely because a few things change in terms of opportunities. If you were raised your entire life to believe you were inferior or second class and in fact your entire geneology was built on that fact for hundreds of years, AND the reality that defined your life was violence, poverty, racism and disdain from the larger society...you would find it infinitely more complicated than you do now. Your thoughts also suggest a lack of understanding about what is actually happening in the black community NOW. College educated black men are twice as likely as their caucasion counterparts to start their own businesses, and black women in general are creating businesses 5 times faster than the rest of the US economy. They are in fact, the fastest growing entrepreneurial demographic in the country. So statements about lawn businesses etc...they betray the fact that you're unaware of the realities shaping black society now.

Again, you have totally misunderstood the premise and misrepresented my statements. I am not talking about my colleagues, who are no doubt well-adjusted citizens, and who I would not have included in such a discussion. I'm talking about the inner city community, and particular, the inner city black community. The poor.

Nowhere in any of my previous posts did I say anything otherwise.

It's not an excuse at all, it's reality. The US imprisons more of it's citizens than any nation on earth. 1/3 of black men ages 18-49 in America are either incarcerated by the penal system or under current supervision through parole or probation. That figures rises to a devestating 1/2 in urban areas. The discrepancies in our justice system are overwhelmingly disproportionately biased towards blacks.

How can you blame this on biased processes if you have been in the inner city?

A dispropotionate number of black people are in prisons because of the lifestyle that they live. You dont end up in jail for nothing, and if you show the type of improvement that the state wants to see, then you probably wont be back. There have been people that have been wrongly convicted, yes. And the police profile people as well. They also profile white citizens.

Blaming the justice system is a copout and excuse for those who make very poor choices in succession. It is what it is. White or black.

This discussion has been had before in here and dozens of studies support this. These historical inequities still exist today and they have a devestating impact on black family life.

Not nearly as big as an effect as the choices to sell drugs or take up thievery. The moral and ethical family in the inner city is a rarity. No matter the race. They are usually headed by a strong grandmother, and the dad is usually nowhere to be found. Rare is the parent that expects their kids to play in front of the apartment. Rare is the parent that prays with their kids. Rare is the parent that stays in communication with teachers and principals. Rare is the parent that makes sure that their kids are clean for school. Rare is the parent that forces kids to do homework. Rare is the parent that knows how to discipline their kids without devastating them, who disciplines them for their own good instead of it happening because the child inconvenienced or embarrassed them, who disciplines them for their future success. Rare is the father who is involved in the life of their kids.

There are much deeper issues with inner city black family life than any perceived slight from "outside" (a crock in itself) their community.

Your characterization of this issue follows the same pathway each time...and it is marked by a focus on attempting to define the problems and suggesting that "they" need to do x or y to solve the problem. However that is not the focus you want if you're looking at how these issues can be fixed. The focus ought to be on finding ways of changing outcomes not just saying what you think is wrong.

This is silly. It is my job to help find solutions. That's where I am. For a problem to be solved, action has to be taken. There comes a time when a person has to rise above their environment, and everyone is given a chance to do such. I'm no Calvinist.

Have you seen some of those resources? No suburban middle class family would wish themselves to be recipients of these services. Dentists don't need government sponsored day care so that's an absurd straw man argument. The reason these resources exist in the first place is because they are so desperately needed. Also, your characterization of resources as abundant is utterly untrue given the current state of budget cuts in many of these government programs. Schools are the prime example. Education is supposed to be a public service, but that service is apportioned to the poor in highly inadequate ways and this is not even debateable. There is no excuse for funding suburban schools with more than we fund inner city schools...none whatsoever.

Sure there is. Those people pay taxes for their community schools. Would it be fair to them to take their money and give it away? No.

Those same people are the folks that fund the nonprofits that serve the poor.

Its much more complicated than you would suggest.

Having spent a decade plus in the inner city, I would be confident in saying that a diamond in the rough shines brighter than any others. They are cultivated by those who are looking, and believe me...there are people looking for those diamonds.

Sharpton has nothing to do with what is not there. Sharpton is merely a sad charicature of bafoonery propped up by the white media to create the impression that he is somehow typical of black leadership, when in fact most people who listen to him are white, not black.

I agree with this...the modern social liberal movement is nothing more than cheap sentiment coupled with tight purse strings. Sharpton is there for them. For them to have little feel-good moments.

However, the unducated poor do not have the type of discernment it takes to see through those charlatans. They trust the news.

This is a classic example of what I'm talking about. Do you seriously think that blacks in the inner city need to be told by whites that "life is hard"? Or that they are unaware of consequences to actions? This smacks of the worst kind of arrogance, one that assumes that not only are their societal problems divorced from the actions WE visited on them for 400 years, but in fact they are so ignorant and unable to even recognize their own problems that they need to be told? That's utterly preposterous. There are tens of thousands of black leaders all accross this nation in every community who are mentoring kids, giving back to their communities through their businesses or their time, volunteering in organizations or just looking out for the neighbors kids. You dont' see this because you are not embedded in these communities. You see them from your prior race-dedicated view of things as it's been shown you.

Less than one percent of the folks that work, volunteer, and donate to the most effective inner city ministry in my city are black.

It is our constant prayer that more black folks (especially black men) join the ranks and help us to have more black role models in the community. The fact remains that the inner city folks are not reached by churches because their lifestyles make it difficult. They think that they arent "together" enough for church, and most churches do not reach out in to them without judgment. This includes mega churches like the Potters House.

What about you?

Let's take the case of black history. If you went to a suburban school system you were never taught anything beyond a smidgen of black history. Yet this is an enormous and extremely influencial factor in our own history. Even black school children are rarely taught their own history in school. This is WRONG and it's also IMMORAL because it's part of the continuation of what WE did to THEM in slavery...we stole their identity, tried to force them to assimilate into OUR society and see the world as we see it. What gives us this right?

The necessary discussion in school is of those who chartered the country and built the system of governance that it is built upon.

The school system would be better off teaching christian church history than black history, as it is more widely applicable from a cultural perspective. In fact, what about German history? Irish history? Slippery slope.

There is a pretty good slice of black history taught now, including major black american figures, literary works, and academics. The reason why the cultural identity was lost is legitimately not the fault of the Africans who were enslaved. However, the USA is not a socialist nation (or hasnt been) and it has been largely the responsibility of the parent to teach a child of its culture.

The black parent is given less responsibility in that regard than Asian-americans, Irish-Americans, Indian(as in the country)-Americans, etc.

We could solve many of the problems we see in the black community if white school children were educated about black history and the history of African culture both before and after blacks came to America. Will we do this? Absoltuely not...it would force us to admit the part we play in the current disaster...it would force US to assume OUR responsibility for what has happened...and that's the last thing we want to do. It's much easier to say "you have opportunity so what's wrong with you? We have given you "equality" so there must be something wrong with you if you're not doing as well as we are."

I think that its more a case of losing the will to succeed, and why not when everyone in your family that you can remember did the same thing? Grandma said that it was the whites' fault, and that must be the case today too, right? We live in a much different era.


Actually life is easy for a great many people, most of whom are white...and comparatively few people in the black community have "thrown in the towell" as you put it. Given the 400 years of abuse we have heaped on black in America...the progress they've made in the last 40 years is astounding and beyond amazing. I question whether we would have done as well if the roles had been reversed.

Maybe we should ask the Israelis, the Irish, the white slaves of the same period how it happened. Slavery has been universal in world history.

I'm not saying that its right or good or any such absurd thing. What I am saying, is that TODAY in America, the door is open wide. Anyone who does not walk through it because of what happened 3 generations before they were born is making a very poor and lazy choice.

[footstepsfrom#27]

This is lazy, unschooled opinion.

I come from a generation where racial issues DO NOT exist on a macro level. This is different from your experience. You feel like you are fighting against your generation. I do not. My generation doesn't have that battle to fight.
Lazy? Hardly. It took years of considerable work and extensive self examination for me to make changes that needed to be made. Nor are you correct in your understanding about me fighting against my generation. They are not going to be the one to change this situation, nor do I anticipate that many of those my age will change their own perceptions. You say your generation does not have this battle to fight? I don't know how old you are, but if you're implying that young people have nothing to do regarding this...you're dead wrong. We just witnessed an historic election where young people overwhelmingly voted for Obama...and it's clear they do care about these issues. Most of the people i work with in my business are 20-somethings and yes...they all feel highly motivated towards standing up for civil rights. I've experienced far more interest in younger people, so I'm not sure where you're coming from here.
Your experience is only worth what you have described to you alone. I have a different experience, of the same breadth of time, that involves family relationships with many black families and families from other ethnic backgrounds as well.
My experience has been worth much more than something that's benefitted me alone, but that needn't be argued since that discussion is subjective in nature. However, it's obvious from what you just said that your experience invovles something outside yourself...something you've experienced EXTERNALLY. Working "with" a people different from yourselves is different than working with your own people...having one's identity inside a community. That discussion is not subjective, it's emperical from the standpoint that an internal locus always favors a different vantage point. What you're doing puts you into contact with this community...I live inside it.
Explaining to me how your experience happens to be the valuable one of the two does not hold any importance in a discussion like this.
Actually it is the very crux of this discussion. Comparing any two experiential processes by obvious extention demands that one have personally participated in both those things. It is impossible to examine any experience or it's value related to any other experience if you've participated on only one side. Your statement actually insinuates that experience per se, has no value...which we know is untrue. Since you've not had the same experience, you're unable to distinguish whether it's of greater or lesser value or not. I can comment on the value of the kind of experience you describe as yours since I've also had that as well.
The discussion should be about what is available NOW, and not about the past.
This discussion is about now...you think it's about the past because you've been trained to think that way...it's not.
Every individual is born into the world with a will and a certain amount of resources. There are more resources for black people below the poverty level in America than in nearly all of the world.
You seem to think this is merely about resources, which it's not. It's about what happens to the human psyche over hundreds of years and how it is difficult to change engrained patterns of thinking. Having said that...the resources you speak of are far more limiting than you portray them to be. If you doubt this...drive south of the Trinity and look at the schools black children attend and tell me with a straight face that you'd just as soon your own kids went there as you would somehwere in the burbs.
It is fundamental as a follower of Jesus to believe that any person born of the spirit is, in fact, a member of your family.
You're speaking of a different family. That has little place in this discussion.
That's where a christian's base should be...not in sentimentiality.
Sentimentality? Hardly. I'm suggesting we live up the very document that defines us...the one we say we built this country on. I would describe that as infinitely practical.
I think that you have gone a long way in misunderstanding my thesis here. My thesis involves those at the bottom of the totem pole.
I've not said otherwise...not sure why this is being brought in.
Again, you have totally misunderstood the premise and misrepresented my statements. I am not talking about my colleagues, who are no doubt well-adjusted citizens, and who I would not have included in such a discussion. I'm talking about the inner city community, and particular, the inner city black community. The poor.
I've not missunderstood anything. My position has reflected exactly that.
How can you blame this on biased processes if you have been in the inner city?
How can you not? Do you think these conditions happened by accident? They didn't. What you're seeing is the accumulation of centuries of misstreatment and damage done to black people in this country that is only now beginning to reverse itself.
A dispropotionate number of black people are in prisons because of the lifestyle that they live. You dont end up in jail for nothing, and if you show the type of improvement that the state wants to see, then you probably wont be back. There have been people that have been wrongly convicted, yes. And the police profile people as well. They also profile white citizens.
These statements betray a deep and fundamental ignorance of the real problems. The criminal justice system in this country has been skewed and racist at its core from the very beginning of our country's existence and many of the same institutional forces that were arrayed against blacks in the past have not been eliminated. Dozens of research studies prove bias exists, and you have only to do some research to satisfy yourself this is true. As for the silly notion that cops "profile" white people...I leave that statement to fall upon it's own sword...what could I possibly add that would make my point that you are out of touch onthis issue any better than you just have? Well maybe this will do so...I have been stopped 8 times by police in Arlington, Dallas and Fort Worth for no reason whatsover other than the fact I was in the car with MY WIFE..each time it was a different phony excuse. Several times they want to see HER license as well. If that's what you mean by "profiling white people"...you are correct.
Not nearly as big as an effect as the choices to sell drugs or take up thievery. The moral and ethical family in the inner city is a rarity. No matter the race. They are usually headed by a strong grandmother, and the dad is usually nowhere to be found. Rare is the parent that expects their kids to play in front of the apartment. Rare is the parent that prays with their kids. Rare is the parent that stays in communication with teachers and principals. Rare is the parent that makes sure that their kids are clean for school. Rare is the parent that forces kids to do homework. Rare is the parent that knows how to discipline their kids without devastating them, who disciplines them for their own good instead of it happening because the child inconvenienced or embarrassed them, who disciplines them for their future success. Rare is the father who is involved in the life of their kids.

This is utterly false. And since all your experience is external...you know this...how? The fact is the inner city communities are loaded with people trying to do the right thing. It's easy to not be aware of that when you're lens is focused only from the comfort of the suburbs.
There are much deeper issues with inner city black family life than any perceived slight from "outside" (a crock in itself) their community.
So in other words the testimony of tens of millions of black people in this country about the issues they face is all just their own nonsensical imaginations. None of their concerns are valid. They are all simply morally corrupt, lazy, given to theivery, irresponsible or don't care about bettering themselves. Nothing they say can be believed. That's the gyst of what you're saying.
Sure there is. Those people pay taxes for their community schools. Would it be fair to them to take their money and give it away? No.
Public education is the only government service deliberately rationed on the basis of where you live and how much money you make. Maybe we should do the same with police and fire? Perhaps the mail? You pay more in taxes so obviously you should get your mail faster right? Maybe you should benefit from better military protection or increased access to public parks? Silly notions all the way around...but not when it comes to the most important thing of all....educating children...then we are only to willing to offer black children an inferior school, fewer books, mediocre teachers, the left overs of everything...that shows where our priorities truly are.
Less than one percent of the folks that work, volunteer, and donate to the most effective inner city ministry in my city are black.
Are you talking about ******* *********? I highly doubt that. Donations alone would be impossible to account for since I know for a fact that churches all over Arlington donate to ******* organization, including those in the black church community. Second, you seem to be forming some kind of value judgement on what "effective" means. How did you arrive at this qualatative assessment...I'm curious to know. What source are you getting this from? Also..even if what you say is true...this tell us nothing about the wider world of volunteerism or how people use their resoruces. Pulling a single organization out of the card deck and using this to form an opinion on what happens elsewhere is ridiculous. I work with social entrepreneurs and create them as well. In the last 4 years I've spoken with hundreds of black business owners, most in the inner city. I've never met one that wasn't actively using their business to generate social value and impact in their community. When I discuss this concept with whites...chamber of commerce types for example...I get nowwhere...they don't get it. There are many types of "effective" impact...you seem to be limiting your understanding to NPO's. I suggest you not do that, since the NPO business model is 1) not the most effective way of generating impact, and 2) will give way to social enterprise business as the dominant social value impact template of choice within the next 20 years.
It is our constant prayer that more black folks (especially black men) join the ranks and help us to have more black role models in the community.
Why would black men, black people iin general be attracted to join you when you have the attitude you do regarding them? What possible incentive would they have to participate in joint vision with you if they knew how you see their communities? I would imagine that you've not expressed these views to blacks you come into contact with, but it doesn't matter...your internal spirit of the way you are approaching these fundamental issues is going to be seen whether you realize this or not. People know intuitively when they don't mesh well with someone personally or from an organizational standpoint. If you're not attracting participatoin from African American people in your social mission, there is a reason for that. You should look at what you're doing and ask youself why they would want to join you.
The fact remains that the inner city folks are not reached by churches because their lifestyles make it difficult. They think that they arent "together" enough for church, and most churches do not reach out in to them without judgment. This includes mega churches like the Potters House.
That's absurd. Most black people are either in the church already or they have been in the past. Blacks are overwhelmingly more evangelical than whites. The vast majority of those in the inner city have all been churched at one time or another, so this notion is not based in reality.
What about you?
What about me...what?
The necessary discussion in school is of those who chartered the country and built the system of governance that it is built upon.
That system was built on black labor through slavery, and the system of governance itself was inherently rooted in racism throughout our history, so this discussion is VERY germain to any educational component that is relevant. It's not discussed in schools not because it isnt' relevant, but because it's embarassing.
The school system would be better off teaching christian church history than black history, as it is more widely applicable from a cultural perspective. In fact, what about German history? Irish history? Slippery slope.
Complete nonsense. Germans and the Irish were not imported here by the millions, enslaved, beaten, raped and murdered throughout our history for 200 years before the country was forced to legally stop. Germans and the Irish were not lynched within the last 40 years. They were never targeted for the viciousness we have displayed for black peope and in fact their skin color alone means they've been largely left out of most forms of abuse. The Irish suffered some abuse when they came here but that pales in comparison to what blacks suffered in this countyr. No...this analogy is absurd. You think we should ignore black history when it was a HUGE part of this entire country but teach the history of Christianity? That's equally preposterous. The history of black people in America IS OUR HISTORY. Ignoring it is nothing more than an attempt to further steal the cultural and personal identities of black children who we wish would simply homogonize themselves into "good" negros...in other words they should be like us.
However, the USA is not a socialist nation (or hasnt been) and it has been largely the responsibility of the parent to teach a child of its culture.
We teach white history with no problem at all. Racism is the only reason we do not teach black history in our schools.

[epicSocialism4tw]

.

You speak quite a bit about what you do not know, and I'll leave it at that.

[alkemical]

Obama's Election By <del>Anglo</del> White Americans Shows Well for Americans

[Garcia Bronco]

The election of Obama in general puts to bed the notion that color of skin is holding people back. I have said it 100 times on this board and I'll say it again:

The only thing that truly holds one back is himself or herself.

[footstepsfrom#27]

You speak quite a bit about what you do not know, and I'll leave it at that.
Yeah? I expected more...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You speak quite a bit about what you do not know, and I'll leave it at that.

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/Kool-Aid.jpg

[cutthemdown]

White people are classic. Now that we have a black President the whites want to take credit and pat themselves on the back for being so progressive.

How enlightened we are. First we freed the slaves and now this. What would blacks be without us white folk!!!!!

Oh yeah baby we are diverse and we rule!!!!!!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quote of the Day


"Conservatives need to do the math. We can’t be anti-Hispanic, anti-young person and anti many things and be surprised when we don’t win elections."

- Jeb, who's smarter than his brother, but then again, so is Dax the cat,
(http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15357_Page2.html)
Link (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15357_Page2.html)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/whites-only.jpg
</center>

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/race-victory.jpg
</center>

[alkemical]

White people are classic. Now that we have a black President the whites want to take credit and pat themselves on the back for being so progressive.

How enlightened we are. First we freed the slaves and now this. What would blacks be without us white folk!!!!!

Oh yeah baby we are diverse and we rule!!!!!!

LOL man...I know. Look i'm white and i get it. I loved hearing people say "Lots of blacks only voted for him because he's black".

Well, yeah - what did you think that was going to happen. It's someone they can identify with.

I didn't vote for any of the major candidates.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

White people are classic. Now that we have a black President the whites want to take credit and pat themselves on the back for being so progressive.

How enlightened we are. First we freed the slaves and now this. What would blacks be without us white folk!!!!!

Oh yeah baby we are diverse and we rule!!!!!!

::)

Or maybe some of us just grew up in environments where racism didn't exist and/or where race wasn't an issue.

[alkemical]

::)

Or maybe some of us just grew up in environments where racism didn't exist and/or where race wasn't an issue.

See, i do agree with this too...

But i have a few friends that are so adamant that they "voted" for a black man. Not the man that did the best job, but that they voted for a black man and it shows how open they are. Then they crow about it.

[epicSocialism4tw]

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/Kool-Aid.jpg

Take your propaganda elsewhere, dude.

[The Lone Bolt]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/race-victory.jpg
</center>

Finally something we can agree on! :thumbsup:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Take your propaganda elsewhere, dude.

There you go trying to use a word you don't understand in a sentence again.

:oyvey:

[epicSocialism4tw]

There you go trying to use a word you don't understand in a sentence again.

:oyvey:

Thanks, propaganda man.

I think that you are the biggest sellout I have ever seen. Liberal fundie propagandist. Nice. Have fun with that.

[Spider]

Take your propaganda elsewhere, dude.

Hiel Hitler ..........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Thanks, propaganda man.

I think that you are the biggest sellout I have ever seen. Liberal fundie propagandist. Nice. Have fun with that.

Your habit of filing all inconvenient facts under "liberal propaganda" is what makes you such a laughingstock here.

When you look at the election results, you probably mutter "liberal propaganda" as well.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Your habit of filing all inconvenient facts under "liberal propaganda" is what makes you such a laughingstock here.

When you look at the election results, you probably mutter "liberal propaganda" as well.


Yeah...slapping severely out-of-context cartoons on every thread in this forum sure constitutes what you would dishonestly term posting "inconvenient facts".

A kool-aid guy is an inconvenient fact in a completely unrelated thread. Yeah. ::)

You chugged that kool-aid long ago man, and have beed dead ever since.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yeah...slapping severely out-of-context cartoons on every thread in this forum sure constitutes what you would dishonestly term posting "inconvenient facts".

A kool-aid guy is an inconvenient fact in a completely unrelated thread. Yeah. ::)

You chugged that kool-aid long ago man, and have beed dead ever since.

Right on cue with the straw man argument.

The lies that regressives have to tell themselves in order to make their perceptions and their claims jibe with reality never cease to amaze.

:crazy: :mullet1:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Right on cue with the straw man argument.

The lies that regressives have to tell themselves in order to make their perceptions and their claims jibe with reality never cease to amaze.



So, when confronted with your obvious shill stature at the foot of the god democrata, you can only tuck tail and run? With a little face saving attempt as you slither off?

Anyone that has frequented this site for 6 months can see that you are a propagandist. Your problem is that you havent admitted it to yourself.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So, when confronted with your obvious shill stature at the foot of the god democrata, you can only tuck tail and run? With a little face saving attempt as you slither off?

You haven't "confronted" me with anything but a straw man argument and your usual disconnect from reality.

Anyone that has frequented this site for 6 months can see that you are a propagandist. Your problem is that you havent admitted it to yourself.

And Obama is a "socialist" who "pals around with terrorists."

Riiiight - we get it.

http://www.bartcop.com/gop-kool-aid06.jpg

[epicSocialism4tw]

LA Propaganda Machine at work again.

Much to be proud of.

Sieg heil, comrade.

[Spider]

So, when confronted with your obvious shill stature at the foot of the god democrata, you can only tuck tail and run? With a little face saving attempt as you slither off?

Anyone that has frequented this site for 6 months can see that you are a propagandist. Your problem is that you havent admitted it to yourself.

LOL I cant tell if you are stupid , or just slap naked butt crazy .... but you are the last one to be calling someone else a propagandist or a shill .........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LA Propaganda Machine at work again.

Much to be proud of.

Sieg heil, comrade.

The Angrydramaqueen Story

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Left_Behind_DVD_cover.jpg

[epicSocialism4tw]

Here ya go, dude...some of your predecessors...be proud:

http://ghettology.co.uk/PAGES/XFACT/archives/hs/hspages/nazi-gander/pics/p5_clip_image001.jpg

http://www.solomonia.com/blog/images/april07/liberators_kultur_terror_anti_americanism_1944_naz i_propaganda_poster-thumb.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/images/nazi_propaganda_kladderadatsch.jpg

http://cghs.dadeschools.net/holocaust/jugen.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Derrr!

Obama's a socialist and a Muslim terrorist! :mullet1:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/strawman.jpg
Angrydrama