View Full Version : Karl Paymah and the 12-yard cushion
DomCasual
11-02-2008, 03:58 PM
Stupid stupid stupid.
Are we really that afraid of Greg Camarillo beating us deep?
What a joke.
I'd be all for firing Slowik now. That's inexcusable.
11 catches, 111 yards. To Greg Freakin' Camarillo.
alchemize
11-02-2008, 04:04 PM
From Chad freakin' Pennington!
The MVPlaya
11-02-2008, 04:11 PM
That's what I was saying all game. What the **** is Paymah doing giving Camarillo 12 yard cushions? With saftey help too.
scttgrd
11-02-2008, 04:16 PM
Offensive and defensive playcalling just plain blows.
Rulon Velvet Jones
11-02-2008, 04:18 PM
I live in Dallas and don't see all the media coverage of the Broncos, but has anyone in the media asked the coaching staff about this philosophy?
Bronx33
11-02-2008, 04:23 PM
Paymah interview just now he stated (we just can't point fingers at this point) lmao! mines pointed right at you carl and your 10 yard cushion.
The MVPlaya
11-02-2008, 04:25 PM
I live in Dallas and don't see all the media coverage of the Broncos, but has anyone in the media asked the coaching staff about this philosophy?
Shanahan talked about forcing the ball to Ginn's side since Champ was out... didn't really see that much as Camarillo looked like TO out there.
Hercules Rockefeller
11-02-2008, 04:26 PM
That's been the scheme all year geniuses, even Champ gives that type of cushion. This is a scheme issue, not player issue.
DomCasual
11-02-2008, 04:28 PM
That's been the scheme all years geniuses, even Champ gives that type of cushion. This is a scheme issue, not player issue.
Read the fourth line of my original post in this thread.
Genius.
Stupid stupid stupid.
Are we really that afraid of Greg Camarillo beating us deep?
What a joke.
I'd be all for firing Slowik now. That's inexcusable.
11 catches, 111 yards. To Greg Freakin' Camarillo.
Where have you been? This has been an issue since week 2. Why is it only now that people are opening their eyes to this?
Goobzilla
11-02-2008, 04:29 PM
Paymah interview just now he stated (we just can't point fingers at this point) lmao! mines pointed right at you carl and your 10 yard cushion.
Smooth move Paymah. Then he gave the reporter the old "HEY Look over there!" and snuck out of the locker room after he turned around.
gyldenlove
11-02-2008, 04:30 PM
Slowick just needs to be kicked out, he is useless. At least Coyer and Bates tried, Slowick just goes on about his business like a nail being driven into a 2x4.
eddie mac
11-02-2008, 04:31 PM
That's been the scheme all years geniuses, even Champ gives that type of cushion. This is a scheme issue, not player issue.
Well who's scheme is it then Herc cos I'm a little confused.
We've been playing that way at CB for a good while.
Have all the D-Co-ordinator's we've went through over the last few years adopted the same scheme and if that's the case wtf hasn't Shanny done anything about it or is it his chosen scheme???
TDmvp
11-02-2008, 04:31 PM
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9555/bluecushion1yi2.jpg
Paymah interview just now he stated (we just can't point fingers at this point) lmao! mines pointed right at you carl and your 10 yard cushion.
Karl isnt doing it on his own. Its Slowik who has them doing this. This is one of the flaws in his scheme that Ive been complaining about. Bly isnt that great of a cover corner but he is definitely far better at that than this zone stuff. And when Paymah finally played bump and run, after repeatedly playing with that cushion, he got an INT.
Its Slowik, not Paymah.
We waste Champ on a weekly basis in this horrible defense.
DomCasual
11-02-2008, 04:33 PM
Where have you been? This has been an issue since week 2. Why is it only now that people are opening their eyes to this?
It's one thing to play it in the 2nd Quarter, when you're playing opposite Randy Moss. When it's 3rd and 6, late in the game, against a QB who can't throw the ball 35 yards in the air, against a possession WR - well, that doesn't really compare.
bloodsunday
11-02-2008, 04:34 PM
That's been the scheme all years geniuses, even Champ gives that type of cushion. This is a scheme issue, not player issue.
That's because Champ has the instincts to see the play and break on the ball from that position. It's designed to allow him to make more plays. I don't need to remind anyone that Paymah and Bly can't even sniff Champ's jock. When your personnel adjusts, so should your game plan.
Bronx33
11-02-2008, 04:35 PM
Karl isnt doing it on his own. Its Slowik who has them doing this. This is one of the flaws in his scheme that Ive been complaining about. Bly isnt that great of a cover corner but he is definitely far better at that than this zone stuff. And when Paymah finally played bump and run, after repeatedly playing with that cushion, he got an INT.
Its Slowik, not Paymah.
paymah sucks ok he always has but i agree about slowik as well but's let's not pretend paymah is good it's kinda like pretending bly is good.
That's because Champ has the instincts to see the play and break on the ball from that position. It's designed to allow him to make more plays. I don't need to remind anyone that Paymah and Bly can't even sniff Champ's jock. When your personnel adjusts, so should your game plan.
So whats with Champ covering the 2nd or 3rd WR on the field half the time? Straight up, its a predictably stupid defense we run.
It's one thing to play it in the 2nd Quarter, when you're playing opposite Randy Moss. When it's 3rd and 6, late in the game, against a QB who can't throw the ball 35 yards in the air, against a possession WR - well, that doesn't really compare.
No its been pretty inexcusable most of the year. Its one of the big reasons people bitch about the lack of the pass rush. Im not saying we have the steel curtain on our DLine but there are several times where the pass rush has no chance because the 10 yard cushions give the QB an easy read. We have repeatedly given this cushion in situations where it was a 3rd and 4 making it too easy to convert 3rd down.
broncogary
11-02-2008, 04:37 PM
Well, Mediator said they play press coverage 80% of the time. I say BS. I have never seen a more passive defense in my life.
paymah sucks ok he always has but i agree about slowik as well but's let's not pretend paymah is good it's kinda like pretending bly is good.
Im not pretending anything. Once again, you respond in a way like you dont know whats being said. I believe I only went as far as saying that our CBs are better suited to play man and they are constantly set up for failure by being made to give these cushions. For one thing, Bly cant tackle yet this is a very necessary skill with such cushions. Its horrific and Slowik needs to go for not recognizing this.
snowspot66
11-02-2008, 04:39 PM
I'm really tired of seeing a guy get a completion, turn around, and run into our CB.
It should be guy catches ball, CB runs into guy as he tries to turn and run.
THEY WATCH THEM CATCH THE ****ING BALL AND WAIT FOR THEM TO MAKE A MOVE. ****ING ATTACK DAMNIT!
bloodsunday
11-02-2008, 04:39 PM
Of course we should acknowledge that the DBs are doing the best they can. If they play much tighter with the lack of pressure they will just get beat deep more often.
That's because Champ has the instincts to see the play and break on the ball from that position. It's designed to allow him to make more plays. I don't need to remind anyone that Paymah and Bly can't even sniff Champ's jock. When your personnel adjusts, so should your game plan.
Thats funny because the scheme youre defending is making Champ irrelevant.
broncogary
11-02-2008, 04:41 PM
Of course we should acknowledge that the DBs are doing the best they can. If they play much tighter with the lack of pressure they will just get beat deep more often.
Well, we'll just have more time to catch up.
Of course we should acknowledge that the DBs are doing the best they can. If they play much tighter with the lack of pressure they will just get beat deep more often.
No, it works more the other way. If we play man, we have a better chance at generating pressure and/or forcing the QB into making a mistake. I can take giving up a big play because a QB makes a perfect throw in bump and run but giving up this easy stuff is a bad idea. And the cushion is undermining the pass rush.
broncogary
11-02-2008, 04:45 PM
No, it works more the other way. If we play man, we have a better chance at generating pressure and/or forcing the QB into making a mistake. I can take giving up a big play because a QB makes a perfect throw in bump and run but giving up this easy stuff is a bad idea. And the cushion is undermining the pass rush.
Exactly. We are making a lot of bad QB's look good.
The MVPlaya
11-02-2008, 04:45 PM
That's because Champ has the instincts to see the play and break on the ball from that position. It's designed to allow him to make more plays. I don't need to remind anyone that Paymah and Bly can't even sniff Champ's jock. When your personnel adjusts, so should your game plan.
Either you or Slowik need to wake up.
Cushions don't allow corner backs to make plays. They allow them to prevent plays. Whatever philosophy this is, it's definitely not suited for the NFL.
Bailey has so much physical and mental talent that he can make this scheme "work" for him... he's done a great job of holding his side down...can't say the same for the rest of the team.
As a CB, you want the insurance of safety help up top to allow you to play aggressive. Champ has 1 INT this season, and it really shouldn't have been. Oh, and he was playing aggressive on that play too.
Dre Bly played a good game...
Bronx33
11-02-2008, 04:47 PM
Im not pretending anything. Once again, you respond in a way like you dont know whats being said. I believe I only went as far as saying that our CBs are better suited to play man and they are constantly set up for failure by being made to give these cushions. For one thing, Bly cant tackle yet this is a very necessary skill with such cushions. Its horrific and Slowik needs to go for not recognizing this.
Your last post said and i quote: Its Slowik, not Paymah
It's slowik and paymah is all i was saying.
broncogary
11-02-2008, 04:50 PM
I would say that Champ would be better with more press coverage. I just think he's too lazy to do it and he's conned the defensive coaches. He gets burned plenty as it is.
azbroncfan
11-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Can't blame that crap on Paymah. You take Paymah's weakness zone coverage and you put him in a 10 yard cushion forcing him to play to his weakness. Paymah could actually be a decent CB if they would make him play man press coverage and put him on the LOS. You could see that MIA game plan was to throw 11 balls for 111 yds whenever Denver showed that coverage. Slowik is a worthless DC.
TheChamp24
11-02-2008, 04:57 PM
I don't know why they were afraid of Paymah getting beat. He was step for step with Ted Ginn for crying out loud.
Man up, and press, geez. MAKE ADJUSTMENTS. It was frustrating to see the same thing happen to our defense over and over with us doing NOTHING to stop it.
hades
11-02-2008, 04:59 PM
It's called the "Prevent Defense" people, we play it all game long tho. :kiddingme
broncofan2438
11-02-2008, 05:02 PM
Paymah suck dog schlong! Hurry and get healthy Champ
Your last post said and i quote: Its Slowik, not Paymah
It's slowik and paymah is all i was saying.
If youre going to say Paymah is garbage, then Im going to assume its in a situation that he's not set up for failure, which this cushion does. If Paymah is getting burned and not making enough plays to offset the plays he gives up while playing bump and run, then you can say that. But if he is better suited for bump and run and is made to play with this cushion, its the DC because Paymah is forced to play to weakness and not strength. The fact that Slowik makes him play to his weakness, denies anyone from legitimately saying he is garbage.
I don't know why they were afraid of Paymah getting beat. He was step for step with Ted Ginn for crying out loud.
Man up, and press, geez. MAKE ADJUSTMENTS. It was frustrating to see the same thing happen to our defense over and over with us doing NOTHING to stop it.
Its been like that all year. Ive been bitching about this for some time.
bloodsunday
11-02-2008, 05:07 PM
Thats funny because the scheme youre defending is making Champ irrelevant.
I never "defended it", in fact if you read my post I suggest that we should adjust based on the fact that he's not in the game and the other DBs don't have his insticnts.
It hasn't make Champ "irrelevant" either. He takes away half the field whether by his play or the offens' unwillingness to his way. And he is amazing at run support, in part because he sees the play develop.
lazarus4444
11-02-2008, 05:09 PM
Are you saying our defense plays the preventing a win defense all game? I guess you are right ;)
bloodsunday
11-02-2008, 05:10 PM
Either you or Slowik need to wake up.
Cushions don't allow corner backs to make plays. They allow them to prevent plays. Whatever philosophy this is, it's definitely not suited for the NFL.
Not really, Bailey uses this ability to see the run plays develop and support well from back there. It's not simply a prevent technique. Bailey had his best year as a pro running this same scheme with Slowik in 2005.
I never "defended it", in fact if you read my post I suggest that we should adjust based on the fact that he's not in the game and the other DBs don't have his insticnts.
It hasn't make Champ "irrelevant" either. He takes away half the field whether by his play or the offens' unwillingness to his way. And he is amazing at run support, in part because he sees the play develop.
If the other CB is going to give up the cheese so easily, they dont even need to consider throwing at Champ. People like to brag about how he shuts down a 3rd of the field. OK, so...???!!! Thats great but meanwhile this approach is fubaring the rest of the field where our defense is concerned. They can basically get away with not even thinking about Champ.
azbroncfan
11-02-2008, 05:17 PM
If the other CB is going to give up the cheese so easily, they dont even need to consider throwing at Champ. People like to brag about how he shuts down a 3rd of the field. OK, so...???!!! Thats great but meanwhile this approach is fubaring the rest of the field where our defense is concerned. They can basically get away with not even thinking about Champ.
BLY was a shutdown CB today I believe only one pass went his way today. Easy to shutdown one side of the field when you keep giving up 10 comebacks on the other side of the field.
DHallblows
11-02-2008, 05:25 PM
Dre Bly played a good game...
BLY was a shutdown CB today I believe only one pass went his way today. Easy to shutdown one side of the field when you keep giving up 10 comebacks on the other side of the field.
Ummmm what?! ???
Bly was just as bad as Karl the whole game. They both are average at best. Bly looked better because (I have no ****ing clue why) he was playing 3 yards off more often than Paymah. However Plays were made against him too. But you're also right AZ, he looked much better tanks to Karl. I'd still have to disagree tho that he was shut down today...
Broncosmang
11-02-2008, 06:29 PM
Can we please all just acknowledge a few things?
1. The scheme sucks. Our corners and safeties are not well suited to playing this soft zone.
2. Lack of pressure by the line is magnifying our weaknesses in the secondary
3. Dre Bly was a pro bowl corner in St. Louis and Detroit. He didn't just wake up one morning and start sucking. He showed up in Denver and got put in a scheme that doesn't fit his skillset and has him attempting to cover for like 10 seconds per pass play.
If we can't generate pressure we can't freaking cover. Defensive line play has much more impact on the secondary than the secondary has on the line.
ro_50
11-02-2008, 06:35 PM
You got to be kidding me, they don't play press coverage 80 percent of the time. Bly played more press coverage than Paymah did and he's god awful as a corner.
Slowik doesn't make adjustments and i have no words for the defense.
thumpc
11-02-2008, 06:35 PM
paymah sucks ok he always has but i agree about slowik as well but's let's not pretend paymah is good it's kinda like pretending bly is good.
Nothing sucks more than your writing.
Rock Chalk
11-02-2008, 06:41 PM
Paymah interview just now he stated (we just can't point fingers at this point) lmao! mines pointed right at you carl and your 10 yard cushion.
Paymah is a press corner.
I doubt very much that he was responsible for the cushions. I think that was part of Slowik's scheme to keep the ball out of Ginns hands who is much more dangerous after he catches it than Camarillo.
In that regards, Slowik's scheme worked brilliantly. Where it failed however is that Camarillo kicked out ass.
The MVPlaya
11-02-2008, 06:45 PM
Not really, Bailey uses this ability to see the run plays develop and support well from back there. It's not simply a prevent technique. Bailey had his best year as a pro running this same scheme with Slowik in 2005.
No...it wasn't.
Stupid fans stupid fans stupid fans...
ShutDownPoster
11-02-2008, 07:14 PM
It looked like they were playing press about 40% in the 1st quarter, then abandoned it increasingly more as the game went on, like after Paymah bumped Pennington on that first wild cat play.
azbroncfan
11-02-2008, 07:17 PM
No...it wasn't.
Stupid fans stupid fans stupid fans...
Yes that is the reason for the off coverage, once again you are wrong.
Yes that is the reason for the off coverage, once again you are wrong.
I think he is responding to the inaccuracy of saying 2005 was his best year. 2006 was actually his best year. It was only a couple of years ago and the guy cant get it right.
Bronco Yoda
11-02-2008, 09:29 PM
Why even bother having players like Bly and Champ if their just going to play prevent defense all day long.
azbroncfan
11-02-2008, 09:32 PM
The coaches put Paymah in a position to fail. I knew Denver was F@##ed once I saw where Paymah lined up exposing his weaknesses.
The MVPlaya
11-02-2008, 10:22 PM
Yes that is the reason for the off coverage, once again you are wrong.
I think he is responding to the inaccuracy of saying 2005 was his best year. 2006 was actually his best year. It was only a couple of years ago and the guy cant get it right.
No I'm responding to the fact that the coverage was different. We had more safety help up top when he had his best year (the year he was up for defensive MVP). And when we didn't he still played more aggressive....due to the scheme or D-cord, you make the decision.
He was able to make aggressive plays on post patterns.
I can think of 2 ints right now, without looking it up where he made an INT because he was able to play aggressively in 2006.
1. Against Cinci. He intercepted the ball by jumping a supposed post route because he had safety up top. This was near the redzones for them I believe.
2. AZ. Everyone remembers this game where Leinert was talking sh*t. I believe it was the first pass Leinert tried to attack Bailey...he jumped the route. Safety coverage again.
These are meaningless at this point, but what I can say is that Champ Bailey was on a show last week or the week before talking about some techniques he likes...broadly he described about being able to play aggressively with safety help and less without it.
I mean are you guys serious? Are you going to really believe that playing off the receiver rather than being able to play aggressively will lead to more ints? So less aggressive means more ints? :rofl:
Champ always like to give the receiver that "cushion", but having a safety up top or not will actually allow him to take a risk and make an attempt to break onto the ball.
You guys can't honestly believe he is playing the same scheme today with VIRTUALLY 0 ints....
Again both of you idiots have no idea what you're talking about.
Stupid fans...stupid fans.
BroncoBuff
11-02-2008, 10:38 PM
Stupid stupid stupid.
Are we really that afraid of Greg Camarillo beating us deep?
What a joke.
I'd be all for firing Slowik now. That's inexcusable.
11 catches, 111 yards. To Greg Freakin' Camarillo.
7 catches, 117 yards. For Peyton Freakin' Hillis.
That's what the Dolphins would be saying if the ref handn't blown the Marshall TD. That one play decided this game ... like one play decided the Chargers game, a play or two decided Jacksonville, New Orleans, Tampa Bay. Even Kansas City might''ve been different with a play or two, and had Andre Hall not fumbled twice in the first quarter we might've taken a lead against NE and won that one, too. After all, it was just 6-0 Patriots well into the 2nd quarter.
My point is that this is a game not of stats as much as of single events. And the great teams are cocked and loaded every minute to sieze on those singular moments. This team is mostly just weak mentally.
BroncoBuff
11-02-2008, 10:45 PM
The coaches put Paymah in a position to fail. I knew Denver was F@##ed once I saw where Paymah lined up exposing his weaknesses.
Paymah looked a bit weak at times ... but he did not lose us the game.
nickademus
11-02-2008, 10:59 PM
Either you or Slowik need to wake up.
Cushions don't allow corner backs to make plays. They allow them to prevent plays. Whatever philosophy this is, it's definitely not suited for the NFL.
Bailey has so much physical and mental talent that he can make this scheme "work" for him... he's done a great job of holding his side down...can't say the same for the rest of the team.
As a CB, you want the insurance of safety help up top to allow you to play aggressive. Champ has 1 INT this season, and it really shouldn't have been. Oh, and he was playing aggressive on that play too.
Dre Bly played a good game...
As I have been saying forever our Safetys suck!!! there is no over the top help with these guys. So we are hosed no matter what if we play more bump and rely on the crap we have to provide over the top help we are gonna get smoked if we keep the play in front of our now horrible cbs we kill the pass rush to do it. there is no answer for this season but next year when we have two new NFL caliber safetys we will not see this crap and Slowik is going to get fired no matter what happens.
Blart
11-02-2008, 11:31 PM
When your personnel adjusts, so should your game plan.
Well said
azbroncfan
11-03-2008, 02:05 AM
Paymah looked a bit weak at times ... but he did not lose us the game.
Do you know what I'm saying and did you even read my posts up to this one? I never said he lost the game I said it was Slowik fault for playing Karl 10 yds off the ball and putting him in space where he struggles exposing his weakness instead of putting him on the LOS and letting him jam and play to his strength.
DB-Freak
11-03-2008, 02:23 AM
stop ****ing throwing interceptions.
extralife
11-03-2008, 03:17 AM
Watching the Packers/Titans game before our game today, I found myself developing a crush on the Packers defense. I mean, it's not like this isn't well known, but they put some corners on mother****ers and get in their face. You have to work for your catch, and if you get it someone is gong to lay the wood. I swear I was blushing. I felt like a thirteen year old in a porn store. I'll take some of THAT, thank you very much!
fontaine
11-03-2008, 03:26 AM
7 catches, 117 yards. For Peyton Freakin' Hillis.
That's what the Dolphins would be saying if the ref handn't blown the Marshall TD. That one play decided this game ... like one play decided the Chargers game, a play or two decided Jacksonville, New Orleans, Tampa Bay. Even Kansas City might''ve been different with a play or two, and had Andre Hall not fumbled twice in the first quarter we might've taken a lead against NE and won that one, too. After all, it was just 6-0 Patriots well into the 2nd quarter.
My point is that this is a game not of stats as much as of single events. And the great teams are cocked and loaded every minute to sieze on those singular moments. This team is mostly just weak mentally.
Single events?
Like those 15+ play 80+ yard drives that even average offenses reel off against our defense?
Hilarious!
I wish it was about single plays. At least that would indicate that we are close. But the reality is far from that. Our defense gives up long drives constantly, and Hillis got those plays because the Miami D put all their focus on stopping our WRs and left the underneath area free for guys like Pittman and Hillis to take advantage of. No big deal there really.
Also I'm pretty sure that for the past few weeks our running game sucking wasn't just a few single events.
Ratboy
11-03-2008, 04:28 AM
Some of you really don't get it.
Karl Paymah is ALWAYS 10 yards off.
Dre Bly is ALWAYS 10 yards off.
Champ Bailey is ALWAYS 10 yards off
Jack Williams is ALWAYS 10 yards off.
See the routine? Even our best Cornerback is forced to play 10 yards off the receiver, HELLO! It's not the player. It's the goddamn scheme.
FIRE SLOWIK NOOOOOOOW!!!!
Schism
11-03-2008, 04:35 AM
Watching the Packers/Titans game before our game today, I found myself developing a crush on the Packers defense. I mean, it's not like this isn't well known, but they put some corners on mother****ers and get in their face. You have to work for your catch, and if you get it someone is gong to lay the wood. I swear I was blushing. I felt like a thirteen year old in a porn store. I'll take some of THAT, thank you very much!
The irony being that the scheme they use to this day was installed by none other than Jim Bates, the guy we shelved after 5 games. :yayaya:
Atwater His Ass
11-03-2008, 04:55 AM
The saddest part about all of this is that the D-line is actually playing at an average level now. They generate pressure and did pretty good at stopping the run today for the most part. But we just want to continue to setup our DB's for failure.
Denver724
11-03-2008, 06:28 AM
From the Denver Post
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10883476
"Their coverage. . . 41 (Broncos cornerback Karl Paymah) was just playing off. I guess the linebacker was supposed to buzz out there, but the ball came out so quick you can't really get to that," Camarillo said. "I don't really know whose responsibility it was, but I'm glad we kept going to it.
"After the game, (Paymah) came up to me and said, 'Man, I don't know why we didn't switch defenses. We were just giving you the ball the whole time.' "
ColoradoBuff
11-03-2008, 08:13 AM
I agree....i think it's the scheme and Slowik. Paymah has talent.....it's just not being used in this worthless scheme we call a Defense!
ANIMAL24
11-03-2008, 08:26 AM
one of our corners finally gets a pick and you guys want to bitch about him wut homo's... he doesnt play ten yards off by choice...
Kaylore
11-03-2008, 08:47 AM
From Chad freakin' Pennington!
That's where questions about being afraid of the deep ball should begin and end. It's Chad Pennington. Next.
And again, the cushion isn't on Paymah. He lines up where he's told to.
Beantown Bronco
11-03-2008, 09:10 AM
one of our corners finally gets a pick and you guys want to b**** about him wut homo's... he doesnt play ten yards off by choice...
The guy got thrown at 14 times. 12 were completed, one was thrown out of bounds, and he intercepted one. What am I supposed to do? Praise him for getting beat 12 times out of 14? PLENTY of CBs in this league play 10 yard "off" coverage and they don't get beat by no name WRs 12 times in one game.
TheChamp24
11-03-2008, 09:13 AM
Some of it is on Slowik, some on Paymah.
At some point, Paymah's gotta realize what is happening and make a break on the play.
BroncoBen
11-03-2008, 09:37 AM
Paymah interview just now he stated (we just can't point fingers at this point) lmao! mines pointed right at you carl and your 10 yard cushion.
You know... I've heard Paymah talking in the last few days.. and I am all for a player talking about how good they are, it shows attitude.
But to tell you the truth... you need to back it up.
What is is that saying.. 'You can talk the talk.. but can you walk the walk'.
Well Paymah has been talking.. but after watching the game he is not walking the walk.
Why the Broncos traded Foxworth to keep this guy is beyond me.
To me it wasn't so much the cusion folks as it was we just did a very bad job at understanding the routes they ran. On almost all of those pass plays, the receiver ate up the cushion as he ran forward, and that's the defense, you allow them to do that and if the receiver cuts off the route, the DB is much closer then he was at the start of the play. But the key thing is they got our DB's to quit the backpeddle and turn their hips and start running that same way the receiver was going, and that's when they broke off the route. It's very hard as a DB to turn those hips and start going the other way and then stop, turn back around and go get the receiver.
The problem is that slowick did not adjust to this route. You need to mix the coverage up on those routes. You have the DB play man to man for the first 15 yards and you tell him, do not turn your hips and run the other way. You are playing that receiver man to man but only up to 15 yards. Then it transitions into a zone, if that receiver doesn't cut off the route, you have the safety cover the deep route. The DB then play zone on that side and can cover dump offs to the backs or help on crossing routes coming to his side. If the receiver does cut that route off (as then did time and time and time again) that allows your DB to be right there to make the play on those cut off routes.
To me, this isn't so much about Paymah. He's actually got good talent. This is all about the horrible coverage scheme Slowick is asking our DB's to use.
Mediator12
11-03-2008, 10:53 AM
Well, Mediator said they play press coverage 80% of the time. I say BS. I have never seen a more passive defense in my life.
I said What? Who plays press Coverage 80% of the time? Not DEN, never have, never will. DEN plays off coverage 75% of the time this year and its split between zone and man.
Please let me know what you are quoting. I do make errors, but that would be big one ;D
Los Broncos
11-03-2008, 11:03 AM
Get up on your guy, bump and run, its getting old.
BroncoBuff
11-03-2008, 12:50 PM
"After the game, (Paymah) came up to me and said, 'Man, I don't know why we didn't switch defenses. We were just giving you the ball the whole time.' "
Wow. Just wow.
barryr
11-03-2008, 01:05 PM
I think this is showing that one, the Bronco DL is crap for the most part and the CB's aren't trusted to man up much, which means they aren't good either, other than Champ of course. The Broncos the last decade at least, have not drafted and developed much at DL, safety, or CB.
Rulon Velvet Jones
11-03-2008, 01:15 PM
D-line has improved over the past couple weeks, from what I've seen. They're not terrible and Ekuban is stepping up. But if you couple the so-so play with the corners playing off and the safeties being pure ****, then you get more and more of what we saw yesterday.
fontaine
11-03-2008, 04:21 PM
That's where questions about being afraid of the deep ball should begin and end. It's Chad Pennington. Next.
And again, the cushion isn't on Paymah. He lines up where he's told to.
I gotta give props to Kaylore. He was the first to say Slowik would be wrong for the job when Bates was under heat last year.
Although a lot of people also saw that train wreck coming a mile away.
extralife
11-03-2008, 04:55 PM
The irony being that the scheme they use to this day was installed by none other than Jim Bates, the guy we shelved after 5 games. :yayaya:
I never understood why we didn't play up on receivers with Bates. That was actually what I was most excited about when we hired him.
What's the common thread between now, then, and under Coyer?
Slowik.
Bronx33
11-04-2008, 03:21 PM
Listening to romanowski talk the other day he said the broncos don't have the personel to play the bump and run ( your thoughts)
broncogary
11-04-2008, 03:38 PM
Listening to romanowski talk the other day he said the broncos don't have the personel to play the bump and run ( your thoughts)
Its pretty apparent the Broncos don't have the personnel to play any defense.