Obama Affinity to Marxists Dates Back to College Days

[Needa Pass Rush]

Barack Obama shrugs off charges of socialism, but noted in his own memoir that he carefully chose Marxist professors as friends in college.

Barack Obama laughs off charges of socialism. Joe Biden scoffs at references to Marxism. Both men shrug off accusations of liberalism.

But Obama himself acknowledges that he was drawn to socialists and even Marxists as a college student. He continued to associate with Marxists later in life, even choosing to launch his political career in the living room of a self-described Marxist, William Ayers, in 1995, when Obama was 34.

Obama's affinity for Marxists began when he attended Occidental College in Los Angeles.

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully," the Democratic presidential candidate wrote in his memoir, "Dreams From My Father." "The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."

Obama's interest in leftist politics continued after he transferred to Columbia University in New York. He lived on Manhattan's Upper East Side, venturing to the East Village for what he called "the socialist conferences I sometimes attended at Cooper Union."

After graduating from Columbia in 1983, Obama spent a year working for a consulting firm and then went to work for what he described as "a Ralph Nader offshoot" in Harlem.

"In search of some inspiration, I went to hear Kwame Toure, formerly Stokely Carmichael of …Black Panther fame, speak at Columbia," Obama wrote in "Dreams," which he published in 1995. "At the entrance to the auditorium, two women, one black, one Asian, were selling Marxist literature."

Obama supporters point out that plenty of Americans flirt with radical ideologies in college, only to join the political mainstream later in life. But Obama, who made a point of noting how "carefully" he chose his friends in college, also chose to launch his political career in the Chicago living room of Ayers, a domestic terrorist who in 2002 proclaimed: "I am a Marxist."

Also present at that meeting was Ayers' wife, fellow terrorist Bernardine Dohrn, who once gave a speech extolling socialism, communism and "Marxism-Leninism."

Obama has been widely criticized for choosing the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, an anti-American firebrand, as his pastor. Wright is a purveyor of black liberation theology, which analysts say is based in part on Marxist ideas.

Few political observers go so far as to accuse Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, of being a Marxist. But Republican John McCain has been accusing Obama of espousing socialism ever since the Democrat told an Ohio plumber named Joe earlier this month that he wanted to "spread the wealth around."

Obama's running mate, Biden, recently contradicted his boss, saying: "He is not spreading the wealth around." The remark came as Biden was answering a question from a TV anchor who asked: "How is Senator Obama not being a Marxist if he intends to spread the wealth around?"

"Are you joking? Is this a joke? Or is that a real question?" an incredulous Biden shot back. "It's a ridiculous comparison."

But the debate intensified Monday with the surfacing of a 2001 radio interview in which Obama lamented the Supreme Court's inability to enact "redistribution of wealth" -- a key tenet of socialism. On Tuesday, McCain said Obama aspires to become "Redistributionist-in-Chief."

Obama has managed to cultivate the image of a political moderate in spite of his consistently liberal voting record. In 2006, he published a second memoir, "The Audacity of Hope," that leaves little doubt about his adherence to the left.

"The arguments of liberals are more often grounded in reason and fact," Obama wrote in "Audacity." "Much of what I absorbed from the sixties was filtered through my mother, who to the end of her life would proudly proclaim herself an unreconstructed liberal."

National Journal magazine ranked Obama as the most liberal member of the Senate. The publication is far from conservative, employing such journalists as Linda Douglass, who resigned in May to become Obama's traveling press secretary.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Your daily public service announcement. I know it's late in Jordan and baja may be tired of getting the political download from the bellboy... so I offer these thoughts as a diversion to him and a magnet to LABF and the rest of the koolaid gang. :-*

[barryr]

No question he has sympathies to socialism. Hie very own words prove that, yet there are those that can't bring themselves to admit it for some reason.

[Rohirrim]

You may find this hard to believe, Needa, but the politics one espouses in college is generally not the politics one follows their whole lives. People try on different ideas in college. That's what it's for.

[ak1971]

[QUOTE=Rohirrim;2143392]. People try on different ideas in college. [QUOTE]

So thats what you call that guy in your bed.

[Needa Pass Rush]

You may find this hard to believe, Needa, but the politics one espouses in college is generally not the politics one follows their whole lives. People try on different ideas in college. That's what it's for.


You're just upset that I didn't mention you in the initial posts.

Frankly, I do find it hard to believe. Look at all his associations along the way. They are all ultra leftists. Leopards don't change their spots without surgery, brutha.

[Paladin]

I made a Mac and Cheese that was just excellent. I got the recipe form teh Food Network....

[broncofan7]

[QUOTE=Rohirrim;2143392]. People try on different ideas in college. [QUOTE]

So thats what you call that guy in your bed.

HA!

[Beantown Bronco]

If the theory that how you voted and who you hung out with in college had any bearing on your future political beliefs, then the green and libertarian parties would be getting a whole hell of a lot more votes than they're getting.

[broncofan7]

You're just upset that I didn't mention you in the initial posts.

Frankly, I do find it hard to believe. Look at all his associations along the way. They are all ultra leftists. Leopards don't change their spots without surgery, brutha.

Right on brotha'. I am going to start up a collection fund for all of these 'O' supporters to pay the difference in my taxes from the current Bush tax rates to the Clinton era tax rates . Barack says he is not going to raise taxes, but he allows tax cuts to expire...he's a JAP. Just-another-politician. McCain is a terrible choice as well but he won't raise my taxes. Vote Barr.

[Paladin]

A vote for Barr increases Obama's lead.


Lalalalalala, I can't hear you!!!!

[broncofan7]

A vote for Barr increases Obama's lead.


Lalalalalala, I can't hear you!!!!

Sad but true.

[Pseudofool]

Oh my god. He actually studied political ideas other than capitalism! Lynch him.

Anyone who has actually studied "Marxism" in college, knows that it's methodology rather than a philosophy. It looks at how knowledge/truth/power is "produced" by both the state and institutions. If you want to know exactly what these people do, research Historical Materialism.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Oh my god. He actually studied political ideas other than capitalism! Lynch him.

Anyone who has actually studied "Marxism" in college, knows that it's methodology rather than a philosophy. It looks at how knowledge/truth/power is "produced" by both the state and institutions. If you want to know exactly what these people do, research Historical Materialism.


It went beyond college and casual studies. It's who he is.

[Pseudofool]

It went beyond college and casual studies. It's who he is.I don't think you understand marxism/socialism very well. I have a lot of socialist values, and Barack Obama is no socialist, much less a marxist. The notion that you can pin down "who he is" is patently absurd--you have no secret insight, no profound wisdom, no special training or skill with which to peer into a man's soul. So please give it up--if you want ot make an argument fine, but don't resort to childish appeals to authority (I know better than you because I say I know better than you).

[Rank&File]

I don't think you understand marxism/socialism very well. I have a lot of socialist values, and Barack Obama is no socialist, much less a marxist. The notion that you can pin down "who he is" is patently absurd--you have no secret insight, no profound wisdom, no special training or skill with which to peer into a man's soul. So please give it up--if you want ot make an argument fine, but don't resort to childish appeals to authority (I know better than you because I say I know better than you).

Unless you're baja, then it's "I know better than you because my cabby/hotel desk clerk/turkish coffee drinking buddy knows better than you."

[Dexter]

Government Provided Police: Fine
Government Provided Libraries: Fine
Governement Provided Post Office: Fine
Government Provided Fire Department: Fine

Government Provided Healthcare: Evil Socialism!
Tax Cuts for the Middle Class : Evil Socialism!


:bs:

[Paladin]

Do you know what the opposite of Marxism is?

Do you know the features of our economic system (before greed and Bush) that prevent the possibility of Marxism coming to America?

Do you know what feature of our society is being destroyed by the Bush/Mcain economic policies?

Unless you know the answers to these question, you don't know jack about Marxism. I studied Marxism in college because it was clear that we did not have a democracy here, and I wanted to know what McCarthy and that group of nutjobs were worried about. Now we find new ones around here.

[Rank&File]

Government Provided Police: Fine
Government Provided Libraries: Fine
Governement Provided Post Office: Fine
Government Provided Fire Department: Fine

Government Provided Healthcare: Evil Socialism!
Tax Cuts for the Middle Class : Evil Socialism!


:bs:

Government Provided bailout, full of pork......Priceless.

[Paladin]

Government Provided Police: Fine
Government Provided Libraries: Fine
Governement Provided Post Office: Fine
Government Provided Fire Department: Fine

Government Provided Healthcare: Evil Socialism!
Tax Cuts for the Middle Class : Evil Socialism!


:bs:

Good list.

Add: Government Insurance on deposits, Government intervention in National disasters, water dams, money to build power plants (McCain's favorite, nooocular plants), roads, bridges, National and State Parks, Zoos,.....

Man, the list goes on. And these nutjobs just don't get it.......

[Hotrod]

There is obviously a pattern with Barry.

[Paladin]

Is there a brain cell missing in neoconservatives that block any chance of appreciating how disconnected they are?

[barryr]

Hmm, someone who says he's a socialist supports Obama, but Obama is no socialist? Makes sense.

[Hotrod]

Is there a brain cell missing in neoconservatives that block any chance of appreciating how disconnected they are?

Once again I am offended by your post.

[ak1971]

Like I said before Barry = Satan

[Fedaykin]

I am continually amazed at the foolishness of the extreme rightists here. Yeah, Obama is not a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire capitalist, but he's still firmly entrenched on the right side of the economic spectrum, just like every other major political figure in the U.S. Really, it's like you all think in terms of black and white. Either Obama is just like you and a 'capitalist' or not 100% like you and therefore a pure marxist. It's idiotic, and demonstrates that you are unable to form rational thoughts.

There are no true leftists among the major political figures in the U.S. The only politicians a significant number of people are aware of that is truly left of center are Kucinch (SP?) and Nader -- neither of whom has even a slim chance in hell of getting to the presidency.

Pure Capitalism is just as bad as pure Communism. Like almost every other quality, extremeism is bad.

[Paladin]

Hmm, someone who says he's a socialist supports Obama, but Obama is no socialist? Makes sense.

Hey check out your own position. You said he was a Marxist. That's different from a socialist. Or did you not get the memo? Also, read stuff other than the tripe you have been reading and you will find out that the entire"socialist" bs has been discredited.


No, you look it up yourself. If you can hawk an squawk, you can walk and gawk.....

[Paladin]

Once again I am offended by your post.

LOL!!!

I am on a roll here!!!!

[Hotrod]

LOL!!!

I am on a roll here!!!!

Your off the X-mas card list wise guy

[Rohirrim]

[QUOTE=Rohirrim;2143392]. People try on different ideas in college. [QUOTE]

So thats what you call that guy in your bed.

You'll pay for that, padawan. ;D

[Paladin]

Your off the X-mas card list wise guy

You mean the ones you do in crayons? Good. My pre-school Grandaughter was laughing at your stick figures.....

[Needa Pass Rush]

Hey check out your own position. You said he was a Marxist. That's different from a socialist. Or did you not get the memo? Also, read stuff other than the tripe you have been reading and you will find out that the entire"socialist" bs has been discredited.


No, you look it up yourself. If you can hawk an squawk, you can walk and gawk.....

Did you discredit the fact that the Dems could not find anyone with a more radically left voting record then Barack Hussein Obama? Much to your discredit it is the democrats that are touting the ultra radical candidate. :wave:

[Mr.Meanie]

Hmm, someone who says he's a socialist supports Obama, but Obama is no socialist? Makes sense.

The KKK supports McCain. Does that make McCain racist? hmmm...

[orinjkrush]

French Premier GeorgesClemenceau (1841-1929):
"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

[Rohirrim]

French Premier GeorgesClemenceau (1841-1929):
"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

Clemenceau was a buffoon. :rofl:

[Needa Pass Rush]

Clemenceau was a buffoon. :rofl:

More buffoonery. :wiggle:


Barack Hussein Obama and the Triumph of Marxism

Brussels Journal, Belgium October 28 2008
By Fjordman



One of the recurring themes in my essays is the realization that the West didn't win the Cold War as decisively as we should have done.

A generation after we "defeated" Marxism, Marxist-inspired groups control much of the Western education system as well as Western media and form alliances with our enemies, especially Islamic ones.

I have concentrated on Europe, but this is a problem in North America as well. Barack Hussein Obama represents the triumph of cultural Marxism; or perhaps we should simply say Marxism.

One generation after Ronald Reagan led the USA to "victory," a person with Marxist sympathies could be about to be elected President of the USA. When the Nazis were defeated they were seen as evil, as they should be. When the Communists were "defeated," they were not seen as evil; they are misguided individuals with good intentions, a bit like Santa Claus with a bad hair day.

Journalist Stanley Kurtz has done an excellent job at tracking the many ties to radical organizations in Obama's personal history. Dr.Daniel Pipes lists some of the indirect ties he has to the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Nation of Islam. Pipes states that "Obama's multiple links to anti-Americans and subversives mean he would fail the standard security clearance process for Federal employees. Islamic aggression represents America's strategic enemy; Obama's many insalubrious connections raise grave doubts about his fitness to serve as America's commander-in-chief."

In my view, it's insane that the United States can even contemplate electing a person such as Obama. Americans will look like a defeated nation to the rest of the world if they pick an individual who has for a generation been a member of an organization dedicated to hating the majority population of the country. That's exactly why so many of their enemies want him elected. Meanwhile, 7 years after Saudi Arabian Muslims staged Jihadist attacks against the United States, the Saudis are systematically infiltrating the Western education system at all levels with pro-Islamic propaganda. Americans are outsourcing their industry to China, their education system to Saudi Arabia and their breeding to Mexico. This is not a wise strategy followed by a country that wants to remain a superpower, or simply continue to exist.

A person with such a radical background should never have been close to nomination. The only reason why Obama got so far is because the media deliberately downplayed much of the most troubling information about him. The mass hysteria whipped up in favor of Obama in the press is disturbing. A person who had been a member of an openly anti-black or anti-Asian congregation for a couple of decades would never have been seriously considered for presidency, but being a member of an anti-white congregation is apparently OK. This tells us much about the cultural climate in the West at the moment.

The term "Fascist" is so misused that people no longer remember its original meaning. A "Fascist" is now any person to the right of Hillary Clinton, especially if he's white and doesn't like Multiculturalism. However, the personality cult surrounding Obama is a traditional hallmark of Fascist and Communist societies. When an average voter dared to ask a few critical questions about Obama's Socialist sympathies, he was virtually ambushed by members of the mainstream media. This is the kind of behavior one expects to see in authoritarian societies when someone questions the Divine Wisdom of the Great Leader. It is disappointing and not very reassuring to see it in the land of the free, home of the brave.As journalist Nidra Poller put it: "The chance encounter between Barack Obama and a commoner—Joe the Plumber—not only exposed the Hope & Change candidate's plan for redistribution of wealth, it also revealed his attitude toward the ordinary guys he has pledged to serve. Leftists everywhere love the wretched of the earth…as long as the poor stay poor and the downtrodden downtrodden."

The Iranian ex-Muslim Ali Sina, author of the book Understanding Muhammad, comments on the dark sides of Obama's personality:

Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer

"Never did George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt. Martin Luther King Jr. or Ronald Reagan arouse so much raw emotion. Despite their achievements, none of them was raised to the rank of Messiah. The Illinois senator has no history of service to the country. He has done nothing outstanding except giving promises of change and hyping his audience with hope. It's only his words, not his achievements that is causing this much uproar. When cheering for someone turns into adulation, something is wrong. Excessive adulation is indicative of a personality cult. The cult of personality is often created when the general population is discontent. A charismatic leader can seize the opportunity and project himself as an agent of change and a revolutionary leader."

"If Obama turns out to be the disaster I predict, he will cause widespread resentment among the whites. The blacks are unlikely to give up their support of their man. Cultic mentality is pernicious and unrelenting. They will dig their heads deeper in the sand and blame Obama's detractors of racism. This will cause a backlash among the whites. The white supremacists will take advantage of the discontent and they will receive widespread support. I predict that in less than four years, racial tensions will increase to levels never seen since the turbulent 1960s. Obama will set the clock back decades."

I don't agree with everything Sina says, but I am pretty sure an Obama presidency would dramatically increase racial and ideological tensions within the USA; I cannot see him "heal" anything. I agree that such displays of personality cult are always a sign of dark ideological undercurrents. Jimmy Carter was one of the worst presidents in American history. I don't recall that there ever was a "Carter Youth" movement in the 1970s or people claiming that he was the Messiah, but we do have an "Obama Youth" movement. This is unprecedented, a disturbing indication that the world's most powerful state no longer thinks in rational terms. Obama represents everything the American Founding Fathers tried to avoid when they wanted to make their young nation a constitutional Republic, not a mass democracy.

The dilemma is that both major parties ended up with arguably the worst possible candidates. The choice is between John McCain, an open-border fanatic with an anger management problem who isn't a real conservative, and Barack Hussein Obama, who has for a generation been a member of a church which is explicitly hostile to the majority population of his country, who has Socialist sympathies and ties to anti-American and Islamic radicals. As in the rest of the Western world, the radical Left has largely succeeded in moving politics to the left. The Republican candidate is now what the Democratic candidates used to be like, and the Democratic candidate comes from a background where open shows of hostility to one's own country are commonplace.

In 2007, a proposed immigration bill hundreds of pages long and supported by the Bush Administration would have amounted to the greatest changes in US immigration policies since the 1960s and de facto legalized millions of illegal aliens. As writer Matthew Spalding said at the National Review Online, "the devil is in the details. This legislation is long and complicated, with lots of details — and lots of devils." Yet its supporters were keen to have it implemented as soon as possible. "We all know this issue can be caught up in extracurricular politics unless we move forward as quickly as possible," said Senator John McCain, a key architect of the bill. The bill was stopped after massive popular resistance, but there is reason to fear that a future President McCain will support it in 2009 or 2010 as well.

There are both left-wing and right-wing Globalists. They have different agendas, for instance with left-wing Globalists putting emphasis on silencing free speech and promoting "international law" through the United Nations and similar organizations while right-wing Globalists concentrate more on the free flow of people across borders, just as they want free flow of goods and capital across borders. The presidential election campaign in the USA in 2008 between Obama and McCain is a race between a left-wing and a right-wing Globalist. Both want open borders, if only for slightly different reasons, and tend to think of countries as ideas, not as entities populated by distinct peoples with shared values and a common history.

This does of course not mean that President Obama and President McCain would follow the exact same policies in all areas. For instance, I fear that President Obama would be more aggressive in weakening the freedom of speech enshrined in the First Amendment than President McCain, although I could be wrong in this. Obama would most likely also be more active in pushing Socialist economic programs. When it comes to mass immigration, legal and illegal, I see little difference between them.

An Obama presidency would be bad for the United States but also bad for the world. Many Europeans seem to like Obama. I'm not one of them. Here in Western Europe, we are faced with increasingly aggressive Islamic colonization. How would the American political elites react if native Europeans suddenly grew a backbone and implemented serious policies aimed at halting and reversing Islamization? I don't think we should expect much sympathy from President Obama or the mainstream media. Since Americans are indoctrinated from birth with the idea that any person of European origins defending his cultural heritage is a white supremacist and a Nazi, I suspect we would be viewed as something along those lines. By that point it wouldn't be America Alone, as Canadian writer Mark Steyn says, it would be Europe Alone. Leftists have complained about virtually all American military campaigns except the NATO bombing against Serbs on behalf of Muslims.

For that matter, it isn't self-evident that President McCain would be wholly sympathetic, either. It is a great irony that the USA is vilified for its "anti-Islamic" policies. What anti-Islamic policies would that be? The American political establishment is dedicated to making the world safe for sharia. Muslim immigration to the US has increased since 9/11. The Bush Administration has sponsored the eradication of non-Muslim communities of Iraq, supports Turkish membership of the European Union and together with the EU awarded the ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Kosovo by granting Muslim Albanians their very own Jihadist state.

I'm not going to blame Europe's problems on Americans; we made our own mess and should deal with it ourselves. Besides, it is quite possible that the Americans will soon have their hands full with problems of their own and will be in no position to assist anybody even if they wanted to. Europeans can and should maintain good relations and cooperate with ordinary North American citizens, who live under the same Multicultural regime as we do, but we cannot and should not rely on aid from the American elites.

Barack Hussein Obama hasn't been elected President yet, and it is quite possible that the polls we are shown in the media do not accurately reflect the popular support he has, but the very fact that he has come this far represents an unprecedented triumph for radical Leftism in the heart of the largest state in the Western world.

Anti-Western ideologies have penetrated the very core of our societies at the same time as we are under siege from outside. This is clearly not a sustainable situation and it will need to be resolved if our civilization is going to survive this century. Regardless of who wins this November, the West is in for a bumpy ride.

http://europenews.dk/en/node/15463

[Bob]

Hey check out your own position. You said he was a Marxist. That's different from a socialist. Or did you not get the memo? Also, read stuff other than the tripe you have been reading and you will find out that the entire"socialist" bs has been discredited.


No, you look it up yourself. If you can hawk an squawk, you can walk and gawk.....

Yes, by numerous Socialist sources....:-*

[Rohirrim]

Poor Needa. Six days away from implosion and his wheels are coming off already.

I'm actually enjoying how some on the Right are beginning to sound like Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

I would just like to remind the Righties of one thing:
Don't fall asleep. :rofl:

[Pseudofool]

Did you discredit the fact that the Dems could not find anyone with a more radically left voting record then Barack Hussein Obama? Much to your discredit it is the democrats that are touting the ultra radical candidate. :wave:What precisely are those radical left votes? Remember you used the word "radical" so you'd have to demonstrate that his vote is not mainstream left, but radical left. Here's betting you can't name one bill Obama voted on that's radical left.

In fact I don't think there has been a radical left bill proposed in our congress for decades.

[Bob]

I am continually amazed at the foolishness of the extreme rightists here. Yeah, Obama is not a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire capitalist, but he's still firmly entrenched on the right side of the economic spectrum, just like every other major political figure in the U.S. Really, it's like you all think in terms of black and white. Either Obama is just like you and a 'capitalist' or not 100% like you and therefore a pure marxist. It's idiotic, and demonstrates that you are unable to form rational thoughts.

There are no true leftists among the major political figures in the U.S. The only politicians a significant number of people are aware of that is truly left of center are Kucinch (SP?) and Nader -- neither of whom has even a slim chance in hell of getting to the presidency.

Pure Capitalism is just as bad as pure Communism. Like almost every other quality, extremeism is bad.

Thanks for a well thought out post, but let me ask when was the last time America practiced pure capitalism? Not sure we ever have? -- Maybe the turn of the last century?, No child labor laws, US Steel, no unions, -- so regulation back then liberated the working people, but since FDR's New Deal perhaps we have created too many safety nets that were intended to protect, but have had in many cases the unintended affect of creating helplessness, and dependence. Also, the more we allow the government to do for us (what we could do for ourselves) the more it will be inclined to dictate how we should live our lives -- count on it. The moment they take away my right to saturated fatts is the moment I march on Washington.

[Bob]

What precisely are those radical left votes? Remember you used the word "radical" so you'd have to demonstrate that his vote is not mainstream left, but radical left. Here's betting you can't name one bill Obama voted on that's radical left.

In fact I don't think there has been a radical left bill proposed in our congress for decades.

Partial birth abortion -- the woman delivers the baby (except for the head) and then they kill the baby -- how many Dems voted against infantcide? Quite a few.

[Rohirrim]

Thanks for a well thought out post, but let me ask when was the last time America practiced pure capitalism? Not sure we ever have? -- Maybe the turn of the last century?, No child labor laws, US Steel, no unions, -- so regulation back then liberated the working people, but since FDR's New Deal perhaps we have created too many safety nets that were intended to protect, but have had in many cases the unintended affect of creating helplessness, and dependence. Also, the more we allow the government to do for us (what we could do for ourselves) the more it will be inclined to dictate how we should live our lives -- count on it. The moment they take away my right to saturated fatts is the moment I march on Washington.

Now Boob is coming out against child labor laws?! Boob! You have attained the pinnacle of boobery.

"liberated the working people" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
They were ****ing slaves, you moron.

[Pseudofool]

Partial birth abortion -- the woman delivers the baby (except for the head) and then they kill the baby -- how many Dems voted against infantcide? Quite a few.That doesn't make him marxist.

Obama has already cleared this up; he didn't vote for it because it didn't include a provision about the mother's health. Though McCain and you dismiss it with scare quotes ("health"), but it seems pretty legitimate to me.

[Bob]

Now Boob is coming out against child labor laws?! Boob! You have attained the pinnacle of boobery.

"liberated the working people" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
They were ****ing slaves, you moron.

Knee Jerk -- read the freaking post...I said labor laws liberated, but FDR's New Deal opened up a Pandoras's box of expectations.

[Bob]

That doesn't make him marxist.

Obama has already cleared this up; he didn't vote for it because it didn't include a provision about the mother's health. Though McCain and you dismiss it with scare quotes ("health"), but it seems pretty legitimate to me.

Have you heard his 2001 NPR interview?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ha ha ha! :laugh:

The desperation of the wingnuts to save their sinking ship is becoming more hilarious by the minute.

The republi-cons discovered, much to their horror, that the word "liberal" no longer seemed to carry the epithetic charge that it did four years ago, so they decided to take it up a notch to "socialist."

Getting zero traction there, they've now upped the ante to "Marxist."

What's it going to be tomorrow?

Satanist?

Hilarious!

[Pseudofool]

Have you heard his 2001 NPR interview?He's talking about progressive tax policy, not marxism. Not that I expect those on the right to know the difference.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That doesn't make him marxist.

Obama has already cleared this up; he didn't vote for it because it didn't include a provision about the mother's health. Though McCain and you dismiss it with scare quotes ("health"), but it seems pretty legitimate to me.

:laugh:

Remember: You're arguing with a bunch of mouth-breathing rubes who have probably never even taken a high school civics class and who couldn't explain the difference between liberalism, socialism, and Marxism to save their lives.

[Rohirrim]

Knee Jerk -- read the freaking post...I said labor laws liberated, but FDR's New Deal opened up a Pandoras's box of expectations.

In other posts you've come across as a Christian. Now you're saying you're against child labor laws, health care for the poor, security for the elderly and food stamps for the poor? What kind of Christian is that?

[Bob]

He's talking about progressive tax policy, not marxism. Not that I expect those on the right to know the difference.

Kind of like Hilary's interpretation of "progressive" instead of the dirty liberal word -- "progressive", sounds so...seductive, so modern, and foward thinking.

Basicly the more sucessful one is under the Messiah's plan the more they will be penalized, and the more their earned money will be given to those who did not earn it -- wow, that sounds a bit like Communism....dont you think?

[Bob]

In other posts you've come across as a Christian. Now you're saying you're against child labor laws, health care for the poor, security for the elderly and food stamps for the poor? What kind of Christian is that?

If you have to not read my posts, and ignore what I actually said about Child labor laws being a good thing and suggest that I refute things I did not say then you might be a liberal...

Joe Biden gave less than 1% of his income to the charitable causes last year (or maybe it was in 2006) Obama gave less than I did untill he made his announcement to run for President -- and I earned I suspect much less that year. If food stamps keep someone poor is it "loving" to keep giving them those things that will keep them in poverty?

If helping a person on crank is best done by buying him more crank, then you may be converted to the key platform of the Dem/Socialist party -- make them need and depend on you to reatin power -- again, damn the long term implications. But is spending one's life in helping those with disabilities to FIND work more helpful -- is that not a better path?

THERE IS A PLACE for a safety net for those who can not work, or have just been laid off -- but there does come a point when as a society we start to do more harm than good. I say we crossed it -- are you suggesting that we widen the net more? Last year we paid $1.10 for every .10 the government brought in through taxes --- so is it "loving" to print more money so my grandmother on her SSDI check will have to get by with less becuase (in part) there are those who are not working who can? Is is loving to put off temp pain now, by wrecking the system for years -- because a few politicians were afraid of being labled Hateful like you have attempted to lable me? Taking away the motive to work is not loving -- it hurts the little guy who is rewarded for what? and it hurts everyone because the gifts in that person are often permenately stunted. Giving loans to those who could not afford it -- was not "loving" it was PC and short-sighted, and in the end it will ensure that those you say you want to help will be screwed even more.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ha ha ha! :laugh:

McCain/Palin supporters have absolutely nothing to say about their candidates' plan to solve America's problems, so their only recourse is "attack, attack, attack, lie, distort, smear," etc.

Pathetic! :oyvey:

[Pseudofool]

Kind of like Hilary's interpretation of "progressive" instead of the dirty liberal word -- "progressive", sounds so...seductive, so modern, and foward thinking.

Basicly the more sucessful one is under the Messiah's plan the more they will be penalized, and the more their earned money will be given to those who did not earn it -- wow, that sounds a bit like Communism....dont you think?No, that sounds like American tax code for at least 100 years if not more. And it's literally called a "progressive tax," I'm not substituting for liberal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

[rastaman]

Hmm, someone who says he's a socialist supports Obama, but Obama is no socialist? Makes sense.

So which is a better economic model.......socialism or Republican unregulated induced Predatory-Vulture Capitalism.

[Bronco Bob]

No question he has sympathies to socialism. Hie very own words prove that, yet there are those that can't bring themselves to admit it for some reason.

So how come it isn't socialism when Sarah Palin steals millions of dollars
from the oil companies and hands out checks of thousands of dollars to
every single Alaskan. Even though almost none of them did anything
to earn that money, and are only getting that money because they
live in Alaska. And yet because Obama wants to return the tax rates
to the amounts they were under Ronald Reagan, this makes Obama
a socialist. You need to explain this in more detail.

[Bob]

So which is a better economic model.......socialism or Republican unregulated induced Predatory-Vulture Capitalism.

To be honest under Obama, and in part under McCain we will get to find out...

[Bronco Bob]

Right on brotha'. I am going to start up a collection fund for all of these 'O' supporters to pay the difference in my taxes from the current Bush tax rates to the Clinton era tax rates . Barack says he is not going to raise taxes, but he allows tax cuts to expire...he's a JAP. Just-another-politician. McCain is a terrible choice as well but he won't raise my taxes. Vote Barr.

But unlike you, most of us don't make over $250,000 a year.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So which is a better economic model.......socialism or Republican unregulated induced Predatory-Vulture Capitalism.

The latter has worked out so well for us, don't you know?

That's why McCain is so far ahead in the polls.......err, wait.... ;)

[Rohirrim]

If you have to not read my posts, and ignore what I actually said about Child labor laws being a good thing and suggest that I refute things I did not say then you might be a liberal...

Joe Biden gave less than 1% of his income to the charitable causes last year (or maybe it was in 2006) Obama gave less than I did untill he made his announcement to run for President -- and I earned I suspect much less that year. If food stamps keep someone poor is it "loving" to keep giving them those things that will keep them in poverty?

If helping a person on crank is best done by buying him more crank, then you may be converted to the key platform of the Dem/Socialist party -- make them need and depend on you to reatin power -- again, damn the long term implications. But is spending one's life in helping those with disabilities to FIND work more helpful -- is that not a better path?

THERE IS A PLACE for a safety net for those who can not work, or have just been laid off -- but there does come a point when as a society we start to do more harm than good. I say we crossed it -- are you suggesting that we widen the net more? Last year we paid $1.10 for every .10 the government brought in through taxes --- so is it "loving" to print more money so my grandmother on her SSDI check will have to get by with less becuase (in part) there are those who are not working who can? Is is loving to put off temp pain now, by wrecking the system for years -- because a few politicians were afraid of being labled Hateful like you have attempted to lable me? Taking away the motive to work is not loving -- it hurts the little guy who is rewarded for what? and it hurts everyone because the gifts in that person are often permenately stunted. Giving loans to those who could not afford it -- was not "loving" it was PC and short-sighted, and in the end it will ensure that those you say you want to help will be screwed even more.

I'm not suggesting anything. You're the one saying you're opposed to child labor laws. Why are you trying to twist it around so I'm defending something? I think the child labor laws were a great idea. Now you're saying that people who are hungry should get "tough love" instead of food stamps, spreading the dogma of the Right that sells the beauty of deprivation, but you'll notice, makes sure they never have to experience it first hand. Let the rich try the nobility of deprivation. I'll bet that tune will change quick.

Maybe you should revisit the tenets of your (so-called) Christianity.

[Bob]

So how come it isn't socialism when Sarah Palin steals millions of dollars
from the oil companies and hands out checks of thousands of dollars to
every single Alaskan. Even though almost none of them did anything
to earn that money, and are only getting that money because they
live in Alaska. And yet because Obama wants to return the tax rates
to the amounts they were under Ronald Reagan, this makes Obama
a socialist. You need to explain this in more detail.

Good point bout Sarah, I guess she is not perfect, or consistant on that issue.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm not suggesting anything. You're the one saying you're opposed to child labor laws. Why are you trying to twist it around so I'm defending something? I think the child labor laws were a great idea. Now you're saying that people who are hungry should get "tough love" instead of food stamps, spreading the dogma of the Right that sells the beauty of deprivation, but you'll notice, makes sure they never have to experience it first hand. Let the rich try the nobility of deprivation. I'll bet that tune will change quick.

Maybe you should revisit the tenets of your (so-called) Christianity.

What I find most hilarious is that Bob is defending an already-discredited ideology.

We've been doing it his way for eight years, and the economy is in the worst shape since the great depression as a result.

[Bob]

I'm not suggesting anything. You're the one saying you're opposed to child labor laws. Why are you trying to twist it around so I'm defending something? I think the child labor laws were a great idea. Now you're saying that people who are hungry should get "tough love" instead of food stamps, spreading the dogma of the Right that sells the beauty of deprivation, but you'll notice, makes sure they never have to experience it first hand. Let the rich try the nobility of deprivation. I'll bet that tune will change quick.

Well, I guess I didnt know that about myself -- thanks for helping me to discover that I disagree with Bob. What I believe is that during the turn of the last century we may have gone to far with capitalism being not regulated in many fronts. Child labor was evil, working conditions were deplorable -- the worker had no voice, so Unions AT THAT TIME seem to me to have been a good thing. Again, as the pendulum continued to swing however, I think it went too far... Not sure what point that happened, I have studied American history, but was it the New Deal that pushed things too far, or was it Wilson's ideas? I like Social Security in concept -- but when it was setup life expectancy was 65 years -- if the system was set to go up at the same rate as life expectancy -- what would we be sitting at now -- 83? Again not to be cruel to old folks, but is it better for less to get that support -- or is it better to setup in a way that will not be sustainable?

[Bob]

What I find most hilarious is that Bob is defending an already-discredited ideology.

We've been doing it his way for eight years, and the economy is in the worst shape since the great depression as a result.

Was it Socialist policies that Bush adopted that made things worse, or was it being fiscally conservative? Bush was a big spender -- you and I can both agree on that point.

[Rohirrim]

Well, I guess I didnt know that about myself -- thanks for helping me to discover that I disagree with Bob. What I believe is that during the turn of the last century we may have gone to far with capitalism being not regulated in many fronts. Child labor was evil, working conditions were deplorable -- the worker had no voice, so Unions AT THAT TIME seem to me to have been a good thing. Again, as the pendulum continued to swing however, I think it went too far... Not sure what point that happened, I have studied American history, but was it the New Deal that pushed things too far, or was it Wilson's ideas? I like Social Security in concept -- but when it was setup life expectancy was 65 years -- if the system was set to go up at the same rate as life expectancy -- what would we be sitting at now -- 83? Again not to be cruel to old folks, but is it better for less to get that support -- or is it better to setup in a way that will not be sustainable?

I'm glad to see you've come over to my side regarding child labor, though you hint in this post that maybe we've gone too far with it? So, it would be okay for kids to work for a little bit in a coal mine? I suppose that could build character. And what do we do with the elderly when they can no longer work or sustain themselves? I'm surprised to hear a Christian argue that mercy can go too far.

Anyway, of course it's sustainable. Just employ the progressive tax, which is how it was set up in the first place. This is truly odd. The Repugs do everything in their power to dismantle the progressive tax, then turn around and gape in shock that programs based on the progressive tax are suddenly in trouble. OMG!

[TailgateNut]

The KKK supports McCain. Does that make McCain racist? hmmm...


A hood wearing one!

[TailgateNut]

Good point bout Sarah, I guess she is not perfect,.

That's an understatement. Like calling a vulture a pigeon.

[Paladin]

.... Again not to be cruel to old folks, but is it better for less to get that support -- or is it better to setup in a way that will not be sustainable?


And fug you, too, sonny......

[Drek]

Was it Socialist policies that Bush adopted that made things worse, or was it being fiscally conservative? Bush was a big spender -- you and I can both agree on that point.

When was the last time the Republican party actually had a fiscal conservative at the helm?

Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 have all said they were fiscal conservatives and then quickly engaged in record setting governmental growth and spending to beat out the other.

30 years of a party being lead by outright liars. 30 years of people gobbling it up because its the party that lets them feel like its ok to be a bigot.

Anyone who is a true fiscal conservative should disown the GOP and campaign against them harder than any democrat. This is the time to kill the beast and let true fiscal conservatism rise again.

Anyone who votes for McCain is simply being complicit in a government that lies to you about their intentions and WILL raise spending, WILL inflate the deficit, and WILL further erode our economy.

I look forward to Nov. 4th for two reasons. One, to see the most forward thinking POTUS since Kennedy elected. Two, to hear the death rattle of the walking, talking lie that the Republican party has become.

[barryr]

Funny thing is Obama supporters get hysterical when Obama and socialism get linked, and then they turn right around and defend the principle of socialism. Really making sense folks.

[manchambo]

These constant attacks based on associations, which have no support in the legitmate media, seem very McCarthy-esque to me. I can find no substance in them aside from the idea that Obama is unworthy because he has spoken with people whose ideas are different from the mainstream. There is no serious claim that Obama actually is a Marxist. The fact is that he is a highly educate man who has been exposed to, and has the good sense to listen to, all kinds of different ideas. The McCain campaign, and particularly Palin, want to serve as thought police, condemning Obama not for his actions, or even for his supposed association with others' actions, but for his association with thoughts Palin deems unthinkable. This fits within a whole movement of anti-intellectualism, of which Palin seems emblematic. This seems to me to have no basis in true conservatism, which has had its share of admirable intellects over the years. Instead, it seems to me that the party is forced to run away from big ideas because the last eight years have stripped it of all of its admirable philosophies, such as fiscal responsibility and protection of states' rights, and left it with little else than greed and aggression.

From my point of view, the broad nature of Obama's experience and education make him just what this country needs. The last thing we need is another nitwit who will sit in America, never study, much less understand, any other part of the world or philosophy other than his own, stick his fingers in his ears, and proclaim that America and everything it does is the best thing ever.

[Atlas]

Barack Obama shrugs off charges of socialism, but noted in his own memoir that he carefully chose Marxist professors as friends in college.

Barack Obama laughs off charges of socialism. Joe Biden scoffs at references to Marxism. Both men shrug off accusations of liberalism.

But Obama himself acknowledges that he was drawn to socialists and even Marxists as a college student. He continued to associate with Marxists later in life, even choosing to launch his political career in the living room of a self-described Marxist, William Ayers, in 1995, when Obama was 34.

Obama's affinity for Marxists began when he attended Occidental College in Los Angeles.

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully," the Democratic presidential candidate wrote in his memoir, "Dreams From My Father." "The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."

Obama's interest in leftist politics continued after he transferred to Columbia University in New York. He lived on Manhattan's Upper East Side, venturing to the East Village for what he called "the socialist conferences I sometimes attended at Cooper Union."

After graduating from Columbia in 1983, Obama spent a year working for a consulting firm and then went to work for what he described as "a Ralph Nader offshoot" in Harlem.

"In search of some inspiration, I went to hear Kwame Toure, formerly Stokely Carmichael of …Black Panther fame, speak at Columbia," Obama wrote in "Dreams," which he published in 1995. "At the entrance to the auditorium, two women, one black, one Asian, were selling Marxist literature."

Obama supporters point out that plenty of Americans flirt with radical ideologies in college, only to join the political mainstream later in life. But Obama, who made a point of noting how "carefully" he chose his friends in college, also chose to launch his political career in the Chicago living room of Ayers, a domestic terrorist who in 2002 proclaimed: "I am a Marxist."

Also present at that meeting was Ayers' wife, fellow terrorist Bernardine Dohrn, who once gave a speech extolling socialism, communism and "Marxism-Leninism."

Obama has been widely criticized for choosing the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, an anti-American firebrand, as his pastor. Wright is a purveyor of black liberation theology, which analysts say is based in part on Marxist ideas.

Few political observers go so far as to accuse Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, of being a Marxist. But Republican John McCain has been accusing Obama of espousing socialism ever since the Democrat told an Ohio plumber named Joe earlier this month that he wanted to "spread the wealth around."

Obama's running mate, Biden, recently contradicted his boss, saying: "He is not spreading the wealth around." The remark came as Biden was answering a question from a TV anchor who asked: "How is Senator Obama not being a Marxist if he intends to spread the wealth around?"

"Are you joking? Is this a joke? Or is that a real question?" an incredulous Biden shot back. "It's a ridiculous comparison."

But the debate intensified Monday with the surfacing of a 2001 radio interview in which Obama lamented the Supreme Court's inability to enact "redistribution of wealth" -- a key tenet of socialism. On Tuesday, McCain said Obama aspires to become "Redistributionist-in-Chief."

Obama has managed to cultivate the image of a political moderate in spite of his consistently liberal voting record. In 2006, he published a second memoir, "The Audacity of Hope," that leaves little doubt about his adherence to the left.

"The arguments of liberals are more often grounded in reason and fact," Obama wrote in "Audacity." "Much of what I absorbed from the sixties was filtered through my mother, who to the end of her life would proudly proclaim herself an unreconstructed liberal."

National Journal magazine ranked Obama as the most liberal member of the Senate. The publication is far from conservative, employing such journalists as Linda Douglass, who resigned in May to become Obama's traveling press secretary.

Well, hell lets give marxcism a chance it can't be any worse than the **** the Repubs are putting us through.

[rastaman]

No question he has sympathies to socialism. Hie very own words prove that, yet there are those that can't bring themselves to admit it for some reason.

No doubt over the last 8 years McCain has shown he will continue Repulican Trickle down--Predatory Vulture Capitalism.!Booya!

[Bronco Bob]

Funny thing is Obama supporters get hysterical when Obama and socialism get linked, and then they turn right around and defend the principle of socialism. Really making sense folks.

No, it's the hypocrisy we are condemning. Obama is no more a socialist than
Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush 1 & 2, and McCain.

[USAFBronco]

Hmm, someone who says he's a socialist supports Obama, but Obama is no socialist? Makes sense.


So by your very same logic, Someone(Al Queda) supports McCain...which therefor makes McCain a terrorist? Makes sense.