Lincicome points finger at Cutler as a problem.

[lex]

LINCICOME: Which Cutler is just an illusion?
By Bernie Lincicome, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published October 24, 2008 at 7:28 p.m.
Text size 15 Comments Email Print

Joe Mahoney / The Rocky/Joe Mahoney / The Rocky

UP Jay Cutler walks off the field after being intercepted by Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather. In the past four games, Cutler has thrown as many interceptions (five) as TD passes.

PollWithout the Broncos to watch, what's the most compelling sports event this weekend?


Avalanche-Sabres Breeders' Cup Chargers-Saints in London CU-Missouri football World Series Something else See the results »Related StoriesSam Adams' Open Mic: Lots of advice for Broncos on tackling bye week Sam Adams' Open Mic: Lots of advice on tackling bye week More Denver BroncosSam Adams' Open Mic: Lots of advice for Broncos on tackling bye week Sam Adams' Open Mic: Lots of advice on tackling bye week Broncos' tackles Clady, Harris holding their ownMore stories »Here's a seasonal thought, a scary thought, a Halloween thought, an all-trick, no-treat thought. What if it is the quarterback?

The Broncos only have the one, you know. Check the depth chart. Jay Cutler, followed by blanks.

Behind him is presumably practice squad intern Darrell Hackney, a scary thought all by himself. By the bye, another will surely show up, but it is Cutler and only Cutler who matters.

The one certainty, the one anchor to any dismay over the Broncos, is that Cutler is everything he is supposed to be. It is, to lift a headline from a New England paper before the Patriots game, Cutler's Broncos, so even the outsiders get it.

Excuses are not only handy for Cutler but wishes as well, reassuring that nothing essential is wrong with him, that the turnovers, the defense, the engorged finger on the first play, all of those things absolve Cutler of blame.

And maybe they do. More than half a season remains to decide. Yet as Cutler works his way toward .500 as a starter (now at 13-15), doubts do have friends.

The overriding pang is that the attention and the responsibility might be a bit much, especially the brilliant beginning to the season that thrust Cutler beyond just a local figure but into a national prize.

Suddenly, Cutler was walking with the same wind at his back as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and the legend that used to be Brett Favre. Cutler was tomorrow, not just in Denver but around the league.

September belonged to Cutler and he has the Player of the Month Award to verify it. October. Not so much.

All those gaudy numbers, plus the concern over diabetes, made Cutler a story worth telling. With the notice came expectations. The higher the perch, the further the fall.

After three games, Cutler was the strong-armed whiz kid leading an offense that scored 38 points a game. Since, he is the mope who gets 15 a game and has lost three of four.

His quarterback rating has fallen from 110.6 to 91.7, right there between Favre and Kyle Orton, which may very well be the best definition of Cutler after all. (Tennessee's Kerry Collins, quarterback of the only unbeaten team, is at 74.2.)

The Cutler then and the Cutler now seem not to be the same person. TDs then, 8. Since, 5. Interceptions then, 2. Since, 5.

Can it all be for other reasons than Cutler himself? One of those games, two maybe, but four?

Cutler's public obligations, meeting the dreaded press, even his own TV gig, have grown gloomier and more clipped, his manner barely tolerant of the duty, much as it was last season when his condition was still undiagnosed.

His happy two-man comedy act with Brandon Marshall after home wins, one following the other, became dour eulogies, from both of them. I mentioned to fellow columnist Dave Krieger after the last one, no more Abbott and Costello, only to realize I had dated myself.

No more Beavis and Butt-Head? Still too dated. How about no more Tina Fey and Tina Fey, as herself and Sarah Palin?

The point is, joy has left the building. The same thing happened to Jake Plummer, a likable rascal turned into a guarded and grumpy lump by the time he left.

Cutler is not naturally gregarious to the public in the first place and a couple of missteps with the national press have set him up for sneers, the Sporting News piece that made him seem cocky in comparison to John Elway, and then a cable TV nonsense sports show that had him dissing Philip Rivers of the Chargers.

Rivers, by the way, is statistically the leading quarterback in the league.

Combine what came off as boasting with the ensuing failure and now Cutler seems, as more than one blogger has noted, a loudmouth. This is a reputation he does not deserve (more so Rivers), but the media animal is all appetite and no taste.

Cutler's talent is surely obvious still, but something is amiss. Excuse the New England game with the bum digit, but hark back to Kansas City, when touchdowns gave way to field goals and the signs were there.

The bye week gives the Broncos time to heal and mull over how they got to where they are and where they want to go, and the coaches the opportunity to restore whatever it was that came so magically together early.

To alleviate the doubts, Cutler has to become again be what he was. He certainly was scary then.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/24/lincicome-which-cutler-is-just-an-illusion/

[theAPAOps5]

I read that and its a good article. Jay needs to come down to earth and play football. If you suck, own it. If you don't be humble. It will take you much farther.

[go_broncos]

Yes..he is correct..

Right now, I will take many QBs(including Trent Edwards) over cutler.

It is very rare that a QB get so much time to throw(offensive line is great)
and still make the mistakes that cutler is making(Fumbles, interceptions..)

[Goobzilla]

Bye week fluff.

This just in...NFL players are fun when they win and b****es when they lose.

[Dagmar]

I still maintain that half of those INT's were basically punts.

[cmhargrove]

I still maintain that half of those INT's were basically punts.

I would try to defend this point, but every time I see a bad pick, I watch the tape and see another receiver wide open. That's what hurts.

Jay just needs to forget about his FF stats and keeps drives going with short plays if necessary.

He's our guy, he just needs to mature.

[WolfpackGuy]

He needs to get back to taking the short and intermediate gains like he was doing in the preseason and September.

[go_broncos]

He needs to get back to taking the short and intermediate gains like he was doing in the preseason and September.

He also need to distribute the ball.

[Bronx33]

Shanahan gave jay to much leash to early and we got a young QB trying to do to much causing mistakes just tighten up the play book and get back to basics.

[bloodsunday]

I would try to defend this point, but every time I see a bad pick, I watch the tape and see another receiver wide open. That's what hurts.

Jay just needs to forget about his FF stats and keeps drives going with short plays if necessary.

He's our guy, he just needs to mature.

This is right on. It's not a question of whether or not Jay is the guy, its a question of whether or not he can make enough strides to save this season. I am concerned he is not getting enough "coaching" with Bates. I really wish we had someone on staff with a proven track record of mentoring young QBs. Shanahan has admittedly stepped back in terms of his day-to-day work with the offense and seeing what's gone on since Kubiak left its pretty apparent that he did most of the coaching with the QBs.

I am a little concerned about whether or not Jay is a "winner". I know that sounds a little vague, but there is something to it. Jay played out of his mind at Vandy and they were clearly over-matched, but he never "won" there. They never went to a bowl game. Heck, they are even gonna make a bowl this year without him. From what I understand he's never been on a winning team at any level of football. At the end of the day stats and cannon-arms are great, but winning is why you play the game. So far he's .500 here. And unfortunately for a QB the difference between a win and a loss at this level is usually one or two critical plays -- so far he's making as many mistakes as great plays in those opportunities. (FYI Elway didn't win at Stanford either, so I am not assuming this means Jay will suck.) But he has to learn to make plays when they count and live to fight another down when they aren't there.

[Hamrob]

John Elway never won very much in College either. Did he even play in a bowl game?

Look, if he makes better decisions and starts enjoying the game a little more...he'll be back to where he was the first two-weeks of the season.

As far as making him play more of a controlled game. I'm against it. I think that's one of the reasons he's not having fun right now. He likes to compete and they're trying to make him into a Brian Griese. Yeah, I'd be excited about that.

What's Jay's longest completion this year? How about his 2nd?...3rd? He may be trying to throw the ball where it shoudn't be thrown. But, they're not calling any bombs either...the only time he throws deep is when he improvises. Let the kid utilize his talents and start throwing a few to Royal over the top for craps sake!!! Let him have some fun!!!

[Cito Pelon]

I still maintain that half of those INT's were basically punts.

Man, that was dry humor at its best.

[lex]

John Elway never won very much in College either. Did he even play in a bowl game?

Look, if he makes better decisions and starts enjoying the game a little more...he'll be back to where he was the first two-weeks of the season.

As far as making him play more of a controlled game. I'm against it. I think that's one of the reasons he's not having fun right now. He likes to compete and they're trying to make him into a Brian Griese. Yeah, I'd be excited about that.

What's Jay's longest completion this year? How about his 2nd?...3rd? He may be trying to throw the ball where it shoudn't be thrown. But, they're not calling any bombs either...the only time he throws deep is when he improvises. Let the kid utilize his talents and start throwing a few to Royal over the top for craps sake!!! Let him have some fun!!!

I disagree for the most part but I agree with your observation on throwing bombs. Royal has 4.3 speed in the 40 and we practically never throw it deep when Jay, according to himself, has a stronger arm than John Elway. The 2 INTs throwing deep havent bothered me. They were like punts. I think we should structure the play calling more to take some shots. Its almost wasteful not to. And Ive also found it odd that we dont throw deep more.

[Dagmar]

Man, that was dry humor at its best.

:thumbsup:

http://i33.tinypic.com/2gtvxj6.gif

[Cito Pelon]

This is right on. It's not a question of whether or not Jay is the guy, its a question of whether or not he can make enough strides to save this season. I am concerned he is not getting enough "coaching" with Bates. I really wish we had someone on staff with a proven track record of mentoring young QBs. Shanahan has admittedly stepped back in terms of his day-to-day work with the offense and seeing what's gone on since Kubiak left its pretty apparent that he did most of the coaching with the QBs.

I am a little concerned about whether or not Jay is a "winner". I know that sounds a little vague, but there is something to it. Jay played out of his mind at Vandy and they were clearly over-matched, but he never "won" there. They never went to a bowl game. Heck, they are even gonna make a bowl this year without him. From what I understand he's never been on a winning team at any level of football. At the end of the day stats and cannon-arms are great, but winning is why you play the game. So far he's .500 here. And unfortunately for a QB the difference between a win and a loss at this level is usually one or two critical plays -- so far he's making as many mistakes as great plays in those opportunities. (FYI Elway didn't win at Stanford either, so I am not assuming this means Jay will suck.) But he has to learn to make plays when they count and live to fight another down when they aren't there.

"Save this season" is a team goal. Not that I disagree with you that Cutler has to play a part in that, but this is still a good start to the season. The team, coaches, players, Bowlen can't keep squandering good starts.

There just isn't a ton of leaders on this team, staff and players both. The whole team is poor finishers. They have to rally, rip off 3 game winning streaks starting now.

[mopatt24]

I disagree for the most part but I agree with your observation on throwing bombs. Royal has 4.3 speed in the 40 and we practically never throw it deep when Jay, according to himself, has a stronger arm than John Elway. The 2 INTs throwing deep havent bothered me. They were like punts. I think we should structure the play calling more to take some shots. Its almost wasteful not to. And Ive also found it odd that we dont throw deep more.


Thats the one thing that has really bothered me with our offense. Eddie Royal's quickness and speed, Brandon Marshall's size and speed, and we don't like to throw deep? I think that might change with the signing of Chad Jackson. Even though Marshall and Royal are fast, their about the only WR's with good speed that we have. Scheff has good speed for his position, and that allows us to spread the field and take more shots down field. D-Jack cant really get any separation, so maybe Chad Jackson can use some of that 4.2 - 4.3 speed to create more mis-matches

[Cito Pelon]

I disagree for the most part but I agree with your observation on throwing bombs. Royal has 4.3 speed in the 40 and we practically never throw it deep when Jay, according to himself, has a stronger arm than John Elway. The 2 INTs throwing deep havent bothered me. They were like punts. I think we should structure the play calling more to take some shots. Its almost wasteful not to. And Ive also found it odd that we dont throw deep more.

Unless an INT is on 4th down, it's not like a punt.

[WolfpackGuy]

Hard to throw deep with coverage over the top. He's going to continue to see that in passing situations until he starts going to those open guys underneath.

[Hamrob]

Hard to throw deep with coverage over the top. He's going to continue to see that in passing situations until he starts going to those open guys underneath.My point was and is...that "All" he does is throw the ball underneath. Yeah, Marshall and Royal are racking up the catches...."All" underneath...as their YPC average indicates. Until, they stretch the field....Marshall won't be at his best...and won't get the YAC that he's accustomed to.

[broncsyanks]

well sad to say. i do agree with the article. i have to say in addition to what was wrote-- IMHO its been his pass selection that has been piss poor. on some of those (punts) :D interceptions he had the tight ends wide open up the middle. but this need to throw it to brandon marshall has hurt him and us. Still not down on jay. its just an observation. ok he lost scheffler, royal and stokley. thats tough to do. but you still can throw to the new guys. i just thinks he needs to grow up a little and show some love to some new WR's cause i dont see stokley comng back anytime soon. just my 2 cents. oh yeah cut the crap with the elway comparisons. i was embarrassed that he did that. i mean how retarded.

[DB_champ24]

Oh god shut up, if everyone stops fumbling the football the outcomes of these games would be sooo different, If Cutler doesn't hurt his finger the first play of the game, whole different ball game. If we had a defense, less pressure on Cutler, If we had a running game less pressure on Cutler. So hard on the guy when he's ahead of Elway at this point in his career. Let him get his options back on offense and everyone needs to take care of the ball and the offense will look like it did during the first few weeks.

[Bronx33]

Oh god shut up, if everyone stops fumbling the football the outcomes of these games would be sooo different, If Cutler doesn't hurt his finger the first play of the game, whole different ball game. If we had a defense, less pressure on Cutler, If we had a running game less pressure on Cutler. So hard on the guy when he's ahead of Elway at this point in his career. Let him get his options back on offense and everyone needs to take care of the ball and the offense will look like it did during the first few weeks.


Agreed.

[lex]

Unless an INT is on 4th down, it's not like a punt.

The two times Im talking about were both on 3rd down I believe and in both cases the opposing team may have been better off dropping the ball so they could return the punt.

[mopatt24]

Oh god shut up, if everyone stops fumbling the football the outcomes of these games would be sooo different, If Cutler doesn't hurt his finger the first play of the game, whole different ball game. If we had a defense, less pressure on Cutler, If we had a running game less pressure on Cutler. So hard on the guy when he's ahead of Elway at this point in his career. Let him get his options back on offense and everyone needs to take care of the ball and the offense will look like it did during the first few weeks.

Agreed, shut it down:~ohyah!:

[cutthemdown]

Cutler better play good again very soon or Broncos in trouble.

[Bronx33]

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6421/frontpageeditld1.png

[cutthemdown]

broncos stats inflated because of 2 big games. Take away Raiders/Chargers/Saints to start yr and you will see how bad Broncos have been these last 3 weeks.

[Cito Pelon]

Oh god shut up, if everyone stops fumbling the football the outcomes of these games would be sooo different, If Cutler doesn't hurt his finger the first play of the game, whole different ball game. If we had a defense, less pressure on Cutler, If we had a running game less pressure on Cutler. So hard on the guy when he's ahead of Elway at this point in his career. Let him get his options back on offense and everyone needs to take care of the ball and the offense will look like it did during the first few weeks.

Well, I don't think he's ahead of Elway at this point in his career. He's maybe a little lacking in the mental toughness. But, Elway never had to deal with such a woesome D. Hell, no Denver offense since 1967 has had to deal with such a woesome D. This is two years in a row the Denver D has been 1960's bad. For Cutler to start out his career with that certainly is a detriment, and the 13-15 starting record reflects that. OTOH, dude's gonna have to tough it out, rally the troops, be a leader. This petulant sulking stuff I've seen is not leadership, it's kind of Ryan Leaf-like.

[montrose]

What's Jay's longest completion this year? How about his 2nd?...3rd? He may be trying to throw the ball where it shoudn't be thrown. But, they're not calling any bombs either...the only time he throws deep is when he improvises. Let the kid utilize his talents and start throwing a few to Royal over the top for craps sake!!! Let him have some fun!!!

I was thinking about this yesterday. We really don't have that many big plays this season. In fact, I can't remember the least deep ball we completed. Remember Jay's bomb to Walker against Arizona his rookie year? I'd like to see some more of that.

[lex]

I was thinking about this yesterday. We really don't have that many big plays this season. In fact, I can't remember the least deep ball we completed. Remember Jay's bomb to Walker against Arizona his rookie year? I'd like to see some more of that.

In week 1, there was that deep pass from Cutler to Scheffler. And then in the Jax game, Cutler had Marshall open deep and overthrew him because a shortwhile before Marshall had that 15 yard loss when he caught that short pass on one side of the field and tried coming back to the other...and so Marshall was tired.

[Garcia Bronco]

He'd be right about Cutler being the problem. He's still wet behind the ears.

[Bronx33]

He'd be right about Cutler being the problem. He's still wet behind the ears.



NO MERCY!!! says bernie!

[Punisher]

Yes..he is correct..

Right now, I will take many QBs(including Trent Edwards) over cutler.

It is very rare that a QB get so much time to throw(offensive line is great)
and still make the mistakes that cutler is making(Fumbles, interceptions..)

http://i33.tinypic.com/2gtvxj6.gif

[DomCasual]

I don't read Bernie Lincicome. He's the worst writer to have ever come through Denver, and that's saying something.

[summerdenver]

Look, if he makes better decisions and starts enjoying the game a little more...he'll be back to where he was the first two-weeks of the season.

As far as making him play more of a controlled game. I'm against it. I think that's one of the reasons he's not having fun right now. He likes to compete and they're trying to make him into a Brian Griese. Yeah, I'd be excited about that.


What i have seen is teams are playing deep to keep receivers in front and challenging Cutler to show patience and he is failing to do that. I actually think Den should try to run more to take advantage of that. Eventhough this is cutler's 3rd year, i don't think he is mentally ready to execute passing offense and is better off with the support of run game.

I also give coaching staff a pass if they were using more conservative game plans because they are missing the starting RB, TE and #2/3 receivers. If the QB is not having fun because they are asking him to play conservative then there is something wrong with him and he needs to mature. I think coaches should come up with a game plan that gives them the best chance to win and if that is with the long ball so be it. But I don't agree that they should do it because cutler is not having fun.

[db56]

Cutler shouldnt take the blame for everything thats wrong with this team, but he is definitely adding to it, he needs to read the defense and throw it to who ever is open and quit forcing throws into double coverage. This team turns the ball over unlike any Broncos team that I have ever seen and INT's are turnovers the last time I checked. His additude needs a refresher course as well, quit talking and start winning, after he takes us to a playoff game and wins, he can talk all he wants.

There just doesnt seem to be any imagination to the offense anymore, they come out of the gate firing every year and once teams catch on they are back struggling and look lost. I dont get it..

[broncosteven]

broncos stats inflated because of 2 big games. Take away Raiders/Chargers/Saints to start yr and you will see how bad Broncos have been these last 3 weeks.

But if you count those 3 games then the season is decent at 4-3 and a game and half lead on AFC west.

[colonelbeef]

So now Cutler is a question mark? Some of you have opinions that change direction like the wind.

Stop freaking out, Cutler is the man and will continue to get better. 3 game bumps mean nothing in the big picture.

[Circle Orange]

The hard truth is that Cutler is not a qb that can make up the difference in team deficiencies. At least not consistently. That's a rare ability. And while he is mobile, his althleticism is decent, not spectacular. Having a strong arm isn't rare or unique, either. Think Jamarcus Russell is dancing about his arm strength? Cripes, the Raiders could go 1-15.

Jay needs to understand these hyped 'gifts' the media geeks over are shared by several other qbs in the league. And I don't care about what he did in college, its' irrelevant now. Ultimately you play the position with your HEAD or you don't last. If every guy that came along with an arm and a mouth were great, we'd be up to our ass in Hall of Famers.

[TonyR]

Having a strong arm isn't rare or unique, either.

Very true. Jeff George and Ryan Leaf, among others, both had cannons.

[~Crash~]

Shanahan gave jay to much leash to early and we got a young QB trying to do to much causing mistakes just tighten up the play book and get back to basics.


there was one play I belive in KC were Jay kind of swipes the air towards the coaches I belive he was pissed at the play call so he turns to the huddle and calls his owen play deep pass to Mashal he throws a INT.. now I will say this he might of been running out of clock and said piss on it who knows ...

So I aree we need to tight up the play calling for sure . also we need him to take a little more time in the pocket .

[~Crash~]

thing is the deep ball will not be there if they do not respect that he will take the wide open plays instead hell they will just roll 3 or 4 guys to the play and make ints

[Taco John]

I remember when they used to write this kind of article about Elway.

It turned out he wasn't able to win a Superbowl without a good team around him either.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I am a little concerned about whether or not Jay is a "winner". I know that sounds a little vague, but there is something to it. Jay played out of his mind at Vandy and they were clearly over-matched, but he never "won" there. They never went to a bowl game. Heck, they are even gonna make a bowl this year without him. From what I understand he's never been on a winning team at any level of football.

Cutler attended Heritage Hills High School in Lincoln City, Indiana. He started three years at quarterback, amassing a combined 26–1 record for his junior and senior years, including a perfect 15–0 during his senior year. Cutler and his team outscored opponents 746–85, including a 90-0 shutout at Pike Central. During his senior year, Cutler connected on 122-of-202 passes (60.4%) for 2,252 yards with 31 touchdowns, while rushing 65 times for 493 yards with 11 touchdowns.[1] He also started at safety for three years, intercepting nine passes as a senior, 12th overall in the state.[1] His team's perfect record during his senior year included the school's first 3A state championship, where Heritage Hills beat Zionsville in overtime, 27-24. The most notable play of the game occurred when Cutler lateraled the ball to the halfback, Cole Seifrig, who then passed it to Cutler in the end zone to end the game. It was Seifrig's 4th touchdown pass of the season.[2]

Cutler was named a first-team All-State selection by the Associated Press as a senior.[1] In addition to playing football in high school, he was a first-team All-State selection in basketball and garnered honorable mention All-State accolades as a shortstop in baseball.[1]

[Popps]

I remember when they used to write this kind of article about Elway.

It turned out he wasn't able to win a Superbowl without a good team around him either.

I knew you'd come around.

:thumbs:

[Taco John]

I knew you'd come around.

:thumbs:



*shrug*

No matter what you say, Plummer was the wrong quarterback for this team for the long haul. The difference between Jay and Jake is that Jay is going to be able to help us win games that we would otherwise lose, where Jake would put us in situations to lose games that we could have otherwise won.

I never once said that Plummer was the only problem. But he was most definitely a problem. We still have a lot of the same problems that we had when Plummer was our quarterback. But one problem we don't have anymore is Plummer's mental baggage when the stakes got high.

[Fedaykin]

Jay just needs to stop worrying about any other stat (of his own or of Marshall's) other than the W column. WE get it kid, Marshall is your man. BUT, he's not your only damn option, and just because he's your #1 doesn't mean you have to ****in' force it to him.

The more he spreads it around, the more Marshall is going to be open. Teams have adjusted very quickly to our passing game because despite having a QB that can make all the throws, they can stop us cold if they can shut down Marshall.

Now, I say this knowing that Marshall has been pretty much his only option for a couple of games, but he has been doing this all season -- he just got away with it before because teams weren't ready for it. Now they are (AND we have fewer good receivers), so he needs to adjust.

If he can correct this, his INTS will go down and our Offense will get back on track. Until he does, however, we will continue to flounder and his INTS will rack up. This, of course, isn't the only thing that needs fixing on the team or even the O, but it's right now the most glaring.

[dbfan21]

John Elway never won very much in College either. Did he even play in a bowl game?

Look, if he makes better decisions and starts enjoying the game a little more...he'll be back to where he was the first two-weeks of the season.

As far as making him play more of a controlled game. I'm against it. I think that's one of the reasons he's not having fun right now. He likes to compete and they're trying to make him into a Brian Griese. Yeah, I'd be excited about that.

What's Jay's longest completion this year? How about his 2nd?...3rd? He may be trying to throw the ball where it shoudn't be thrown. But, they're not calling any bombs either...the only time he throws deep is when he improvises. Let the kid utilize his talents and start throwing a few to Royal over the top for craps sake!!! Let him have some fun!!!


It was scary to read this Hamrob because I was thinking the same thing on my way into work. The fun has disappeared...and it did not disappear while losing 3 of 4 games. It disappeared after the NO game. The team tightened up...I think it was because the expectations went from a 3 to an 11 (on a scale of 1-10). As the national media started to pimp the Broncos, the pressure skyrocketed.

When TC and the preseason was going on, no one thought Denver would do squat...and as a result, they played loose, they played with a chip on their shoulder and they played to win the game (insert Herm's soundbite here).

Lately, they have played scared and played not-to-lose. I think if the staff and players used the bye week to re-focus on fundamentals, inject a little fun back into their gameplan and play with a chip on their shoulder, they will win this division.

With San Diego losing yesterday, we can build a 2-game lead by beating the Dolphins. The division crown is right in front of us...

[Beantown Bronco]

broncos stats inflated because of 2 big games. Take away Raiders/Chargers/Saints to start yr and you will see how bad Broncos have been these last 3 weeks.

Aside from maybe Tennessee, take away any team's best three games right now and you're looking at garbage.

[Atlas]

From what I understand he's never been on a winning team at any level of football.

Jay was the QB of an undefeated Indiana High school championship team his senior year.

[Atlas]

I remember when they used to write this kind of article about Elway.

It turned out he wasn't able to win a Superbowl without a good team around him either.

Elway's second year Denver went 13-3 and won the AFC West. In Elway's second and third season his record was 24-8. Cutler's is 13-15 as of right now.

[WolfpackGuy]

The Broncos defense was much better back then. Hell, anything is better than this crap they've shuffled out the last two and a half years.

[Taco John]

Elway's second year Denver went 13-3 and won the AFC West. In Elway's second and third season his record was 24-8. Cutler's is 13-15 as of right now.


Elway's defense contained a lot of members of a group the called the Orange Crush. Our defense, not so much.

[Kaylore]

Elway's defense contained a lot of members of a group the called the Orange Crush. Our defense, not so much.

Yeah. 83 = 9th best scoring defense.

84 = 2nd best scoring defense.

In fact for some of his best years outside the last two Elway had at least above average defenses. The problem was he was our only playmaker on offense.

[Punisher]

Elway's defense contained a lot of members of a group the called the Orange Crush. Our defense, not so much.

Yea this is true but then again its JOHN ELWAY where comparing a legend to some guy that hasn't done jack yet....

[Circle Orange]

And while it's notable that neither qbs "won" anything in college there's a reason elway was picked the top NFL player that year, not just for quarterbacks. So apparently mad skills made the other stuff irrelevant. :strong:

But really, this isn't about Jay vs. John.

And despite that orange defense, weren't the broncs saddled with a losing record the year he came on? (History lesson here, I'm not sure).

[Taco John]

But really, this isn't about Jay vs. John.



This is about Jay vs. The Media.

Let the best man win.

[FireFly]

I agree with those who have said taht it takes a very rare Qb to win games all on their own. Jay might be that guy in the future, suppose he is even now, but not consistently.

I just wish someone would sit him down and stick the Bills Dolphins game in. He could learn something from both Qbs. Yes, I said BOTH Qb's in that game. Trent edwards could show him a thing or 2 about taking the underneath/intermediate option, and say what you will about pennignton, but the guy knows how to spread the ball around. He'd hit like 8 or 9 different recievers in just the first half; and he's done that at least 2 weeks running now.

[cutthemdown]

Aside from maybe Tennessee, take away any team's best three games right now and you're looking at garbage.

here's the deal. Broncos last 3 games the offense has stunk. I don't want to see some stat showing our offense top 3 to try and convince me the offense is clicking. Broncos offense right now not playing like a top 3 offense.

If the rest of you want to point to stats showing the overall ranking to try and convince yourselves all is well then go ahead but don't expect me to buy it.

I've been watching football too long to be fooled.

This Broncos offense isn't physical in the running game, isn't converting the tough 3rd downs last 3 games, and isn't hitting many big plays. They are tunring the ball over at an incredible rate and is they don't play about 100% better the Broncos will lose to Miami at home next week.

That Dolphin running game is going to shred the broncos front 7.

[Irish Stout]

Theres some comparison to Jay and Jake that concerns me... Jake clearly stopped enjoying the game at some point. I don't want to see that happen with Jay. If Jay goes out to play for the pure sake of playing and competing I think he'll come around to his full potential. I know losing sucks and I don't like Jay's attitude after losing, but I hope he can shake losses off and look forward to the next week and next game.