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Bronc0guy
07-31-2015, 01:40 AM
Chick comin. He's out shining Bud Dupree in PIT. This is a surprise to exactly no one.

Scribe is going to get a ****load of RL bonus production points in the mock draft.


Steelers Notebook: Chickillo Turning Heads
http://www.scout.com/nfl/steelers/st...-turning-heads

The Steelers' sixth-round rookie OLB played like a first-rounder, at least at Thursday's practice. Here's the full report:

Inside the Steelers: Rookie linebacker Chickillo continues to excel

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#axzz3hQYuDbHK

Too bad MUG bailed and we have no official record of the score.

Bronc0guy
07-31-2015, 01:47 AM
I don't see how Bradford stays healthy. Dude is gonna break a wrist eating a Philly cheesesteak

:egbgb:

cousinal11
07-31-2015, 02:23 AM
Giants sign James Jones, safety precaution for Cruz?

Powderaddict
07-31-2015, 05:43 AM
I hope Tebow plays. I'd watch every Eagles game I can if he does.

jmz313
07-31-2015, 05:56 AM
Tebow will play and score 60+ points this year even if he's not the starter. That's my prediction and took all the bets on it i can.

Bradford could be good but the injuries are ridiculous. Maybe Chip Kelly can pull it off but if i had to pick i'd of rolled with Foles.

James Jones, perfect fit for Giants, solid player. perfect fit for most teams really, if there is a need.

Gutless Drunk
07-31-2015, 07:05 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Seahawks?src=hash">#Seahawks</a> and Russell Wilson have reached a basic agreement on a 4-year, $87.6M contract, source confirmed (as <a href="https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing">@SI_PeterKing</a> said).</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/627114265451716608">July 31, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DENVERDUI55
07-31-2015, 07:20 AM
Giants sign James Jones, safety precaution for Cruz?

I saw him at the airport last week. I was wondering who he was with and now I know.

baja
07-31-2015, 07:29 AM
Don't know what is Tim's future but he sure landed on the right team to give him every opportunity to display his unique talents.

Good luck Tim, you're one of the good guys.

SoDak Bronco
07-31-2015, 07:34 AM
21.9 million average for Russell? That is a pretty steep price if you ask me.

ludo21
07-31-2015, 08:01 AM
21.9 million average for Russell? That is a pretty steep price if you ask me.

:rofl:

What else does he have to do to win you over? On THAT team, in THAT offense, he is well worth it.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-31-2015, 08:04 AM
21.9 million average for Russell? That is a pretty steep price if you ask me.

Worth it or not, they had little choice. Ain't easy to find QBs and he's earned it production wise. I question his future as an elite QB, but moving on is probably a mistake

2KBack
07-31-2015, 08:19 AM
Kam won't be showing up I guess

Gutless Drunk
07-31-2015, 08:27 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Can't keep everyone</p>&mdash; Bobby Wagner (@Bwagz54) <a href="https://twitter.com/Bwagz54/status/627131532503691265">July 31, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

gunns
07-31-2015, 08:37 AM
http://nypost.com/2015/07/30/jets-sheldon-richardson-arrested-for-fleeing-cops-at-143-mph/

Jetsí Sheldon Richardson arrested for fleeing cops at 143 mph

An hour after vowing to stay out of trouble, Jets defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson was back in it.

Richardson, who is suspended for the first four games of the season after failing a drug test, was charged Thursday in Missouri with resisting arrest along with a variety of traffic violations for an incident that occurred on July 14.

According to the police report, Richardson was clocked doing 143 miles per hour in what police believe was a street race. When the police tried to pull over Richardsonís 2014 Bentley Silver Spur, he accelerated and tried to avoid the police. He pulled off I-64, turned off all of the vehicleís lights and sped through a traffic light, according to the police.

Richardson eventually turned into a driveway and the officers told him, at gunpoint, to exit the vehicle because they saw him reach for something between his feet. Richardson complied, but police found a loaded semi-automatic handgun under the mat on the driverís side. The officers also said they smelled marijuana in the vehicle. There were two adult males and a 12-year-old in the car.

Richardson was not charged for the gun or drugs. He was charged with resisting arrest, a class A misdemeanor, and is punishable with up to one year in jail. Richardson has been ordered to appear in St. Charles County Circuit Court on Oct. 27.

The news of Richardsonís arrest came about an hour after Richardson met with reporters for the first time since his four-game suspension was handed down. An apologetic Richardson said he would not get into trouble again.

ďIím not a dope fiend. I can say no. I just chose not to,Ē Richardson said. ďI was in a depressing time in my offseason. Thatís just that. Itís that simple. But thereís money on the line. My money is worth more than some weed. It is what it is.Ē

I just read this in another article, "NFL Players who still don't get it". A 12 year old in the car. Wow. Should have been charged with child endangerment.

DENVERDUI55
07-31-2015, 08:57 AM
21.9 million average for Russell? That is a pretty steep price if you ask me.

Not really just the going rate. Every time a qb signs everyone says same thing and in a couple years that contract is a decent deal.

IndelibleScribe
07-31-2015, 09:28 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Seahawks?src=hash">#Seahawks</a> and Russell Wilson have reached a basic agreement on a 4-year, $87.6M contract, source confirmed (as <a href="https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing">@SI_PeterKing</a> said).</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/627114265451716608">July 31, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A little steep but the going rate. Good for the Seahawks to get a 4 year deal. Gives them some flexibility later on.

gunns
07-31-2015, 09:29 AM
Kam won't be showing up I guess

I'd show you appreciation Kam. Come to Denver!

Drunken.Broncoholic2
07-31-2015, 10:22 AM
Not really just the going rate. Every time a qb signs everyone says same thing and in a couple years that contract is a decent deal.

Over 60M guaranteed.

Bronc0guy
07-31-2015, 10:40 AM
21.9 million average for Russell? That is a pretty steep price if you ask me.

I heard he was wanting more, like in the 25 million a year range.

baja
07-31-2015, 10:52 AM
21.9 million average for Russell? That is a pretty steep price if you ask me.

Given the times I'd say Seattle got a bit of deal.

Bronc0guy
07-31-2015, 10:55 AM
Given the times I'd say Seattle got a bit of deal.

Eventually they are not going to be able to re-sign one of these guys. So far they're getting em locked up though. Wilson, Thomas, Sherman. Cam wants more money but he's playing on an extension right now, correct? I really dislike that team, but ill take them over the Patriots any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

baja
07-31-2015, 10:58 AM
Eventually they are not going to be able to re-sign one of these guys. So far they're getting em locked up though. Wilson, Thomas, Sherman. Cam wants more money but he's playing on an extension right now, correct? I really dislike that team, but ill take them over the Patriots any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

THEY ARE PLAYING TWICE ON SUNDAY, DAMN THE NFL IS GETTING GREEDY


opps caps off

Bronc0guy
07-31-2015, 11:12 AM
THEY ARE PLAYING TWICE ON SUNDAY, DAMN THE NFL IS GETTING GREEDY


opps caps off

Seahawks and Pats play two double headers this year.

baja
07-31-2015, 11:15 AM
Seahawks and Pats play two double headers this year.

Nine quarters or four?

DENVERDUI55
07-31-2015, 12:44 PM
Over 60M guaranteed.

Doesn't matter if the guaranteed the whole thing. He will play the contract out.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
07-31-2015, 12:48 PM
Doesn't matter if the guaranteed the whole thing. He will play the contract out.


Not if he blows his knee on a run. There's a level of risk here when giving huge money to rushing QBs. Anything can happen but IMO the injury risk goes up with a running QB.

Good for Wilson and for Seattle though.

underrated29
07-31-2015, 12:50 PM
Not if he blows his knee on a run. There's a level of risk here when giving huge money to rushing QBs. Anything can happen but IMO the injury risk goes up with a running QB.

This jinx is good

SoCalBronco
07-31-2015, 02:26 PM
Lmao......first Chick now Gunter is picking off Aaron Rodgers in practice.

You're a real piece of ****, Al. 6-7 with all these guys. This is worse than Kotite. This is WOAT discussion for coaching.

CHEF LUIGI
07-31-2015, 02:46 PM
I hope Tebow plays. I'd watch every Eagles game I can if he does.meanwhile just check out some old B & W film of yale vs Harvard.

CHEF LUIGI
07-31-2015, 02:49 PM
Tebow will play and score 60+ points this year even if he's not the starter. That's my prediction and took all the bets on it i can.

Bradford could be good but the injuries are ridiculous. Maybe Chip Kelly can pull it off but if i had to pick i'd of rolled with Foles.

James Jones, perfect fit for Giants, solid player. perfect fit for most teams really, if there is a need.
the tebow ju-ju is strong.
thank god JFE brought in PFM so we could jettison that nightmare.
great human being, fierce competitor, poor excuse for an NFL QB.
I would take him over cutler, but that's not saying much.

CHEF LUIGI
07-31-2015, 02:53 PM
I just read this in another article, "NFL Players who still don't get it". A 12 year old in the car. Wow. Should have been charged with child endangerment.
exactly ! would you want this moron on our team?
hell no.
but I know others will start quoting stats.
to all of them I have just 2 words
albert freakin haynesworth.


maybe even aaron, no surprise hernandez

CHEF LUIGI
07-31-2015, 02:59 PM
Given the times I'd say Seattle got a bit of deal.I'd say they got one hell of a QB and a quality team leader on and off the field.
Face of the franchise kind of signing !
and unlike other players who threaten to hold out, miss practice and games, he threatened to show up every day and play for the 1.5 if a deal wasn't done by start of camp.
He threatened to do his job, to the best of his ability at the $ he agreed to when he signed his rookie contract.


What a shame JFE measured him with a yardstick and not a stethoscope.

NFLBRONCO
07-31-2015, 03:04 PM
I'd say they got one hell of a QB and a quality team leader on and off the field.
Face of the franchise kind of signing !
and unlike other players who threaten to hold out, miss practice and games, he threatened to show up every day and play for the 1.5 if a deal wasn't done by start of camp.
He threatened to do his job, to the best of his ability at the $ he agreed to when he signed his rookie contract.


What a shame JFE measured him with a yardstick and not a stethoscope.

We have paid a QB 15-19 mil that folds his tent in playoffs I highly question his grit and leadership in Jan/Feb. People laugh at Wilson new money.

CHEF LUIGI
07-31-2015, 03:08 PM
Not if he blows his knee on a run. There's a level of risk here when giving huge money to rushing QBs. Anything can happen but IMO the injury risk goes up with a running QB.

Good for Wilson and for Seattle though.
I disagree, the injury risk goes up when the QB just stands there like a statue.
being a mobile, SMART runner is the key !
think aaron rogers.
fran tarkenton avoided injury
roger stauback avoided injury.
steve young stayed in the pocket later in his career and suffered concussions as a consequence
troy aikman pocket piece of pie.
joe theisman destroyed standing in the pocket.
go ahead and start your list of RG3 idots and others who got injured venturing outside the pocket, I will take a QB with mobility every time.
Its why the niners chose YOUNG over MONTANA !

CHEF LUIGI
07-31-2015, 03:11 PM
We have paid a QB 15-19 mil that folds his tent in playoffs I highly question his grit and leadership in Jan/Feb. People laugh at Wilson new money.my point wa JFE chose 6' 9' Oz instead of 5' 11' Wilson and IGNORED all the gamefilm and the comments of their college coaches !

NFLBRONCO
07-31-2015, 03:21 PM
my point wa JFE chose 6' 9' Oz instead of 5' 11' Wilson and IGNORED all the gamefilm and the comments of their college coaches !

Panic move

LikeABoss5820
08-01-2015, 05:26 PM
Steelers trade for Brandon Boykin, 2016 conditional 5th.

IndelibleScribe
08-01-2015, 05:34 PM
Steelers trade for Brandon Boykin, 2016 conditional 5th.

Good pick up for them, should help bolster their secondary.

oubronco
08-01-2015, 05:42 PM
Could become a 4th

LikeABoss5820
08-01-2015, 09:27 PM
Sea just re-signed Bobby Wagner to an extension.

KCStud
08-02-2015, 11:10 AM
Steelers trade for Brandon Boykin, 2016 conditional 5th.

He just said Chip Kelly's has trouble relating to players.

He's won 20 games in 2 years, but I don't know if a mutiny will happen. The talented players Reid brought in are almost all gone.

cousinal11
08-02-2015, 11:23 AM
He just said Chip Kelly's has trouble relating to players.

He's won 20 games in 2 years, but I don't know if a mutiny will happen. The talented playes Reid brought in are almost all gone.

I thought he went LeSean McCoy & played the racist card.

Check out @ProFootballTalk's Tweet: https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/627854307040346112?s=09

Maleficent
08-02-2015, 10:20 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When it comes to average salary... Mr. Wilson is 2nd only to Mr. Rodgers. <a href="http://t.co/aed3OShh8d">pic.twitter.com/aed3OShh8d</a></p>&mdash; NFL (@NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL/status/627135761314381824">July 31, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Guess Who
08-02-2015, 11:30 PM
Seattle released DT McDaniel.... he played over 450 snaps last year for the Seachickens

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000505845/article/amid-budget-cuts-seahawks-part-ways-with-dt-tony-mcdaniel

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13364582/tony-mcdaniel-released-seattle-seahawks

bpc
08-03-2015, 12:18 AM
He would be an interesting guy to look at. 6'7", big boy too.

oubronco
08-03-2015, 05:46 AM
NFL ‏<S>@</S>NFL <SMALL class=time>36s36 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/NFL/status/628184914647719937) </SMALL>
Report: <S>@</S>Ravens (https://twitter.com/Ravens) safety likely to miss season with biceps tear http://bit.ly/1IjKuT9 (http://t.co/LAkrTX6grw) pic.twitter.com/EaJtPPjfCk (http://t.co/EaJtPPjfCk)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLfC2f8W8AAXKc3.jpg
(https://twitter.com/NFL/status/628184914647719937/photo/1)

ludo21
08-03-2015, 07:46 AM
I like DT because of crap like this....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/03/star-nfl-wide-receivers-violent-meltdown-against-own-teammate-at-training-camp-caught-on-video/

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 08:21 AM
I like DT because of crap like this....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/03/star-nfl-wide-receivers-violent-meltdown-against-own-teammate-at-training-camp-caught-on-video/

According to some, he is just showing his love for the game and that fire makes him better than DT.

jmz313
08-03-2015, 08:26 AM
the tebow ju-ju is strong.
thank god JFE brought in PFM so we could jettison that nightmare.
great human being, fierce competitor, poor excuse for an NFL QB.
I would take him over cutler, but that's not saying much.

I'm not saying Tebow is a savior/or anything. I'm saying Chip Kelly is going to use him relentlessly in goal to go situations and in every 2 point attempt (which will probably be common in Philly). he won't always be the guy scoring but will be taking the snap.

Exactly what Tebow's Fierceness is perfect for. He's 50% of McCoy's replacement. Not just Demarco Murray.

ludo21
08-03-2015, 02:38 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AZCardinals?src=hash">#AZCardinals</a> using virtual reality to provide an edge in preparation, development <a href="http://t.co/9bNKDK0QMS">http://t.co/9bNKDK0QMS</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CardsCamp?src=hash">#CardsCamp</a> <a href="http://t.co/sCl763vnTw">pic.twitter.com/sCl763vnTw</a></p>&mdash; Darren Urban (@Cardschatter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardschatter/status/628318155983724544">August 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 02:41 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AZCardinals?src=hash">#AZCardinals</a> using virtual reality to provide an edge in preparation, development <a href="http://t.co/9bNKDK0QMS">http://t.co/9bNKDK0QMS</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CardsCamp?src=hash">#CardsCamp</a> <a href="http://t.co/sCl763vnTw">pic.twitter.com/sCl763vnTw</a></p>&mdash; Darren Urban (@Cardschatter) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardschatter/status/628318155983724544">August 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Stanford is doing similar things with their players in college football. Really helped Kevin Hogan last season and should help him progress further this year.

LikeABoss5820
08-03-2015, 02:52 PM
According to some, he is just showing his love for the game and that fire makes him better than DT.

Dez is better than DT but thats not why.

BroncosfanGuy
08-03-2015, 04:50 PM
Dez is better than DT but thats not why.

what makes Dez the better WR?

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 05:39 PM
Dez is better than DT but thats not why.

No he's not. Dez has more TD's but if DT is playing with a different set of QB's to start his career those numbers are far more even.

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 05:40 PM
what makes Dez the better WR?

People say that nonsense because he attacks the ball in the air and fights the defender for the ball.
He looks more aggressive so people assume he is better.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-03-2015, 05:46 PM
No he's not. Dez has more TD's but if DT is playing with a different set of QB's to start his career those numbers are far more even.


I'm willing to bet Dez is also targeted more than DT, especially in the redzone.

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 05:53 PM
I'm willing to bet Dez is also targeted more than DT, especially in the redzone.

608 career targets and 381 receptions to DT's 575 targets and 351 receptions.

First two seasons of their careers, Dez smokes DT in targets, yards, receptions and TD's.
But DT was playing with Orton and Tebow then. Dez has always had Romo.

LikeABoss5820
08-03-2015, 05:59 PM
what makes Dez the better WR?

Better ball skills, better deep threat, doesnt struggle against press coverage as much as DT does.

But can really go either way with both of them.

DENVERDUI55
08-03-2015, 06:39 PM
People say that nonsense because he attacks the ball in the air and fights the defender for the ball.
He looks more aggressive so people assume he is better.

Dez is better and hasn't been taken out of games like DT. He has the jump ball game that DT lacks which should be a part of his game for his size.

errand
08-03-2015, 06:44 PM
DT doesn't smack his mom and didn't need to be babysitted by the Broncos

DENVERDUI55
08-03-2015, 06:46 PM
DT doesn't smack his mom and didn't need to be babysitted by the Broncos

To be honest that wasn't really an option for him.

BroncosfanGuy
08-03-2015, 06:48 PM
Better ball skills, better deep threat, doesnt struggle against press coverage as much as DT does.

But can really go either way with both of them.

I disagree on the bolded, but yeah I think it's a tossup as far as the better WR. Bryant is a more physical, tenacious WR, but DT is far better in the open field. How are Bryant's ball skills any better than DT's? Does Bryant make the 1-handed catch against KC? or the catch DT made against Seattle last year? Ball skills are a wash as is the deep threat

Castinkas
08-03-2015, 06:57 PM
To be honest that wasn't really an option for him.

:spit:

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 07:15 PM
Dez is better and hasn't been taken out of games like DT. He has the jump ball game that DT lacks which should be a part of his game for his size.


Say what? You do realize DT averaged 12.3 and 18.7 more yards per game in 2013 and 2014 respectively.
More yards, more receptions, more yards per game over the past 3 seasons than Dez but DT gets taken out of the game and Dez does not?

The past 3 seasons.
DT 467 targets 4,483 yards, Dez 443 targets 3,935 yards. That's a difference of 24 targets for 548 yards.

DENVERDUI55
08-03-2015, 07:26 PM
Say what? You do realize DT averaged 12.3 and 18.7 more yards per game in 2013 and 2014 respectively.
More yards, more receptions, more yards per game over the past 3 seasons than Dez but DT gets taken out of the game and Dez does not?

The past 3 seasons.
DT 467 targets 4,483 yards, Dez 443 targets 3,935 yards. That's a difference of 24 targets for 548 yards.

Well Dez does play in an offense that runs the ball more than passing. Nothing wins a discussion like stats. I personally think Dez is a better player. I have seen DT get his lunch handed to him by Vontae Davis and other big physical CB's.

Gutless Drunk
08-03-2015, 07:30 PM
Well Dez does play in an offense that runs the ball more than passing.

I didn't think this was true, but it is. One of only four teams to run more than pass.

http://www.fftoday.com/stats/14_run_pass_ratios.html

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 07:37 PM
Well Dez does play in an offense that runs the ball more than passing. Nothing wins a discussion like stats. I personally think Dez is a better player. I have seen DT get his lunch handed to him by Vontae Davis and other big physical CB's.

I am aware of the Cowboys rushing attack and offensive line. I am saying, if Dez never gets taken out of a game but DT does, then with the rushing attack the Cowboys have, based on the numbers the gap should be far wider in Dez's favor and not DT's.

I understand that the Broncos offense is predicted on timing and rhythm. You disrupt the rhythm or throw off the timing and Manning tends to struggle making throws.
The Cowboys offense is predicated on dominating the point of attack and forcing the defense to bring a safety down to help stop the run and open up the middle of the field.

2 different offensive philosophies, but production it production. The Broncos passed for

Dallas passed for 771 yards fewer than the Broncos, the Cowboys rushed for 569 more yards than the Broncos.
Both had top 5 offenses in terms of total yards.

DENVERDUI55
08-03-2015, 08:07 PM
I am aware of the Cowboys rushing attack and offensive line. I am saying, if Dez never gets taken out of a game but DT does, then with the rushing attack the Cowboys have, based on the numbers the gap should be far wider in Dez's favor and not DT's.

I understand that the Broncos offense is predicted on timing and rhythm. You disrupt the rhythm or throw off the timing and Manning tends to struggle making throws.
The Cowboys offense is predicated on dominating the point of attack and forcing the defense to bring a safety down to help stop the run and open up the middle of the field.

2 different offensive philosophies, but production it production. The Broncos passed for

Dallas passed for 771 yards fewer than the Broncos, the Cowboys rushed for 569 more yards than the Broncos.
Both had top 5 offenses in terms of total yards.

Who cares about the stats you post as it doesn't change my opinion. I have made same statements last year. I PERSONALLY think Dez is a better WR. You could cherry pick Antonio Brown into the mix too and throw his stats up there.

Maleficent
08-03-2015, 11:03 PM
I like DT because of crap like this....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/03/star-nfl-wide-receivers-violent-meltdown-against-own-teammate-at-training-camp-caught-on-video/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After further review, Dez Bryant caught a left jab to the face.

<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DezCaughtIt?src=hash">#DezCaughtIt</a> <a href="http://t.co/UrmYhUXvHB">pic.twitter.com/UrmYhUXvHB</a></p>&mdash; NFL Retweet (@NFLRT) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLRT/status/628266142545629184">August 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's great video from <a href="https://twitter.com/bkspxshooter">@bkspxshooter</a> of <a href="https://twitter.com/DezBryant">@DezBryant</a> fight with Tyler Patmon .. Dez not backing down <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CowboysNation?src=hash">#CowboysNation</a> <a href="http://t.co/ux9UpiSQGg">pic.twitter.com/ux9UpiSQGg</a></p>&mdash; Chris Bullock (@sportsbull) <a href="https://twitter.com/sportsbull/status/628016860970266624">August 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">MUST WATCH Dez Bryant takes a swing at Tyler Patmon <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CowboysNation?src=hash">#CowboysNation</a> video from <a href="https://twitter.com/bkspxshooter">@bkspxshooter</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/CBSDFW">@CBSDFW</a> <a href="http://t.co/icaFloOBuZ">pic.twitter.com/icaFloOBuZ</a></p>&mdash; Chris Bullock (@sportsbull) <a href="https://twitter.com/sportsbull/status/628017895587586048">August 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Maleficent
08-03-2015, 11:08 PM
Cowboys official twitter account posted a GIF of the fight. Don't understand why they would tweet it.

SoCalBronco
08-03-2015, 11:13 PM
Cowboys official twitter account posted a GIF of the fight. Don't understand why they would tweet it.

He's "passionate", bro.

IndelibleScribe
08-03-2015, 11:17 PM
Who cares about the stats you post as it doesn't change my opinion. I have made same statements last year. I PERSONALLY think Dez is a better WR. You could cherry pick Antonio Brown into the mix too and throw his stats up there.

Antonio Brown is one of the best WR's in the NFL, you could certainly make the argument that he is top 3-5 and his stats certainly back that up.
Of course the lack of TD production would kill the argument for most.

Dez's style is more appealing for some but he is not a better player. But as you said, Dez is superior in your opinion and nothing will change that so any argument to the contrary is moot.

Bronc0guy
08-03-2015, 11:17 PM
Who cares about the stats you post as it doesn't change my opinion. I have made same statements last year. I PERSONALLY think Dez is a better WR. You could cherry pick Antonio Brown into the mix too and throw his stats up there.

I know Scribe and DB2 will give me hell, but I agree that Dez is the better player. We can nitpick stats all we want, but I just think Dez is a better receiver. Put stats and all that out there, but Romo is no Manning, and the Cowboys prefer to run the ball. Both excellent players and will break records, but if you put a gun to my head I'll roll with Bryant.

Love that we have DT on our team, he's one of the best and I love the guy.

Guess Who
08-04-2015, 12:20 AM
DT doesn't smack his mom and didn't need to be babysitted by the Broncos

Yeah, because his mom is in jail for selling crack

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 01:00 AM
I know Scribe and DB2 will give me hell, but I agree that Dez is the better player. We can nitpick stats all we want, but I just think Dez is a better receiver. Put stats and all that out there, but Romo is no Manning, and the Cowboys prefer to run the ball. Both excellent players and will break records, but if you put a gun to my head I'll roll with Bryant.

Love that we have DT on our team, he's one of the best and I love the guy.

Not gonna give you hell. I just don't agree. And this is coming from a person who was livid when we passed on Dez to take DT. I had a fan hard on for Dez that draft.

Now outside of last season with DT getting 184 targets their numbers are about the same each season so despite the Cowboys having a primary rushing offense they get roughly the same amount of targets.
The only time Dez has outshone DT in stats was during their first two seasons.

I think both are top 5 WR's in the NFL but I think DT is in the #2-3 range and Dez is in the #4-5 range. Plus DT comes without the headaches off the field.
I know it's a eye test for most who say Dez is better but I don't agree.

This is akin to arguing Justin Houston vs Von Miller to me.

oubronco
08-04-2015, 10:20 AM
Jayson Braddock ‏<S>@</S>JaysonBraddock <SMALL class=time>15s15 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/JaysonBraddock/status/628616222867853314) </SMALL>
Arian Foster's groin injury is serious in nature. Source said it should require surgery & may be candidate for IR w/ designation for return.

ColoradoDarin
08-04-2015, 10:25 AM
Jayson Braddock ‏<S>@</S>JaysonBraddock <SMALL class=time>15s15 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/JaysonBraddock/status/628616222867853314) </SMALL>
Arian Foster's groin injury is serious in nature. Source said it should require surgery & may be candidate for IR w/ designation for return.

Then he's on track for an ESPY?

oubronco
08-04-2015, 10:25 AM
Adam Schefter (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter) retweeted

Michael DiRocco ‏<S>@</S>ESPNdirocco (https://twitter.com/ESPNdirocco)<SMALL class=time>48m48 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ESPNdirocco/status/628605600474251264) </SMALL>
<S>#</S>Jaguars (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jaguars?src=hash) GM says suspended WR Justin Blackmon's career likely over. http://es.pn/1IhPLNe (http://t.co/zrHkacQKru)

Johnykbr
08-04-2015, 10:31 AM
Adam Schefter (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter) retweeted

Michael DiRocco ‏<S>@</S>ESPNdirocco (https://twitter.com/ESPNdirocco)<SMALL class=time>48m48 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ESPNdirocco/status/628605600474251264) </SMALL>
<S>#</S>Jaguars (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jaguars?src=hash) GM says suspended WR Justin Blackmon's career likely over. http://es.pn/1IhPLNe (http://t.co/zrHkacQKru)

So much talent. Soooooooooo freaking stupid.

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 11:02 AM
Adam Schefter (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter) retweeted

Michael DiRocco ‏<S>@</S>ESPNdirocco (https://twitter.com/ESPNdirocco)<SMALL class=time>48m48 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/ESPNdirocco/status/628605600474251264) </SMALL>
<S>#</S>Jaguars (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jaguars?src=hash) GM says suspended WR Justin Blackmon's career likely over. http://es.pn/1IhPLNe (http://t.co/zrHkacQKru)

What a damn moron. What kills me is the type of people they surround themselves with. Instead of ones who push them to be better and make the most of their money and their career they take them further down the path of no return.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-04-2015, 11:06 AM
Between Blackmon and Gordon there's all the talent and no brains.

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 11:25 AM
Between Blackmon and Gordon there's all the talent and no brains.

It still amazes me that Gordon does not feel as though he has a problem.

ColoradoDarin
08-04-2015, 11:27 AM
Between Blackmon and Gordon there's all the talent and no brains.

http://media.giphy.com/media/phko4kpHl6uLC/giphy.gif

Costing them 10s of millions of dollars.

KCStud
08-04-2015, 11:32 AM
Jayson Braddock ‏<S>@</S>JaysonBraddock <SMALL class=time>15s15 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/JaysonBraddock/status/628616222867853314) </SMALL>
Arian Foster's groin injury is serious in nature. Source said it should require surgery & may be candidate for IR w/ designation for return.

This is huge for the Chiefs.

Losing Arian Foster and Andre Johnson is gonna hurt that offense. I think KC will win this game.

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 11:42 AM
This is huge for the Chiefs.

Losing Arian Foster and Andre Johnson is gonna hurt that offense. I think KC will win this game.

This defense is going to be beastly, but their offense is going to suck ass.

kid70
08-04-2015, 11:48 AM
This is huge for the Chiefs.

Losing Arian Foster and Andre Johnson is gonna hurt that offense. I think KC will win this game.

With Foster going down. We should have an extra RB would could trade for a stud O-line.

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 11:51 AM
With Foster going down. We should have an extra RB would could trade for a stud O-line.

We are not the Patriots, it will not happen. Now if we were the Patriots then we could send them Hillman for a nice OL who would start for us and help us win the SB.

Guess Who
08-04-2015, 11:54 AM
It still amazes me that Gordon does not feel as though he has a problem.

Hasn't Gordon just been caught with pot and a DWI?

Every football player should be allowed to smoke pot. They would really benefit from it after football games and it would be much safer than getting all liquored up.

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 12:00 PM
Hasn't Gordon just been caught with pot and a DWI?

Every football player should be allowed to smoke pot. They would really benefit from it after football games and it would be much safer than getting all liquored up.

Weed to me is not that big of a deal, knowing that you have a job to do and allowing your love of smoking it to get in the way of making money.... that is stupid.
Where you feel it should be legal or not in that scenario is irrelevant. If it stops you from advancing in your career and making a living then you need to give up the Buddha.

broncosteven
08-04-2015, 12:03 PM
This is huge for the Chiefs.

Losing Arian Foster and Andre Johnson is gonna hurt that offense. I think KC will win this game.

Not with Alice having his routes jumped and throwing INT's like he has everyday in camp.

Alice is a Machine, an INT Machine!

Bronc0guy
08-04-2015, 12:09 PM
This is huge for the Chiefs.

Losing Arian Foster and Andre Johnson is gonna hurt that offense. I think KC will win this game.

So 1-3 instead of 0-4!! Oh joy!

oubronco
08-04-2015, 12:10 PM
KC fans getting excited about injuries to the other team, I think we can win now!! Hilarious!

broncosteven
08-04-2015, 12:11 PM
KC fans getting excited about injuries to the other team, I think we can win now!! Hilarious!

Hit the nail on the head!

Even Reid is holding out until Manning retires.

Bronc0guy
08-04-2015, 12:12 PM
Not gonna give you hell. I just don't agree. And this is coming from a person who was livid when we passed on Dez to take DT. I had a fan hard on for Dez that draft.

Now outside of last season with DT getting 184 targets their numbers are about the same each season so despite the Cowboys having a primary rushing offense they get roughly the same amount of targets.
The only time Dez has outshone DT in stats was during their first two seasons.

I think both are top 5 WR's in the NFL but I think DT is in the #2-3 range and Dez is in the #4-5 range. Plus DT comes without the headaches off the field.
I know it's a eye test for most who say Dez is better but I don't agree.

This is akin to arguing Justin Houston vs Von Miller to me.

I agree that it's apples to oranges. If you have either guy on your team, you're very, very happy. FWIW, I think they are 2 of the 3 best receivers in the game, Antonio Brown being the other. I think Calvin has lost a step but is still a monster. Julio Jones when healthy is up there as well.

KCStud
08-04-2015, 12:13 PM
KC fans getting excited about injuries to the other team, I think we can win now!! Hilarious!

Nice hyperbole bro

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 12:24 PM
I agree that it's apples to oranges. If you have either guy on your team, you're very, very happy. FWIW, I think they are 2 of the 3 best receivers in the game, Antonio Brown being the other. I think Calvin has lost a step but is still a monster. Julio Jones when healthy is up there as well.

That WR group is so tough to rank tight now. Calvin, Demaryius, Antonio, Julio, Dez, AJ are up there and then you have ODBJ knocking on the door along with Evans, Watkins, Hopkins and etc.

BossChief
08-04-2015, 12:24 PM
Not with Alice having his routes jumped and throwing INT's like he has everyday in camp.

Alice is a Machine, an INT Machine!

Yeah, here's his year by year int totals

5 2011
5 2012
7 2013
6 2014

Yeah, a real INT machine

KCStud
08-04-2015, 12:26 PM
Yeah, here's his year by year int totals

5 2011
5 2012
7 2013
6 2014

Yeah, a real INT machine

Don't even give this loser the time. He's a 50+ year old man who watches every Chiefs game and even stalks Twitter looking at Chiefs camp stuff. He's basically a closet Chiefs fan

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 12:27 PM
Yeah, here's his year by year int totals

5 2011
5 2012
7 2013
6 2014

Yeah, a real INT machine

You forgot 2005(11),2006(16),2009(12) & 2010(10) which was the reversion he was speaking of.

Not that I agree with that. I actually like Smith.

2KBack
08-04-2015, 12:27 PM
Yeah, here's his year by year int totals

5 2011
5 2012
7 2013
6 2014

Yeah, a real INT machine

and here's his TD passes

17 2011
13 2012
23 2013
18 2014

What a weapon!

Guess Who
08-04-2015, 12:31 PM
Weed to me is not that big of a deal, knowing that you have a job to do and allowing your love of smoking it to get in the way of making money.... that is stupid.
Where you feel it should be legal or not in that scenario is irrelevant. If it stops you from advancing in your career and making a living then you need to give up the Buddha.

I agree, I was just making a pot statement... but yes Gordon is an idiot.

Bronc0guy
08-04-2015, 01:46 PM
Don't even give this loser the time. He's a 50+ year old man who watches every Chiefs game and even stalks Twitter looking at Chiefs camp stuff. He's basically a closet Chiefs fan

Well his screen name is Bosschief so I guess he's not really in the closet?

winstoncup bronco
08-04-2015, 01:51 PM
Don't even give this loser the time. He's a 50+ year old man who watches every Chiefs game and even stalks Twitter looking at Chiefs camp stuff. He's basically a closet Chiefs fan

He should be more like you, a fan with 6,500+ posts on a rival team's board.

SouthStndJunkie
08-04-2015, 01:55 PM
So far Terrelle Pryor has looked like he's flashed some raw talent at WR for the Browns in training camp.

I've always said that I thought he could make the transition to WR in the NFL.

I remember him playing a bit of WR at Ohio State and remember him plucking the ball out of the air in the end zone using that large 6'4+ and 225 pound frame and athleticism to his advantage.

He's deceptively fast as well....he looks like he isn't running all that fast, but he has long strides that look effortless. I know Pryor has been timed in the 4.3 range over the years.

IndelibleScribe
08-04-2015, 02:20 PM
Pryor should have moved to WR as soon as he got to the league. He was always going to need to move in the pros.

He could have become a Randle El type.

gunns
08-05-2015, 06:50 AM
Appears Arian Foster may be out for the year.

BossChief
08-05-2015, 08:10 AM
Pryor should have moved to WR as soon as he got to the league. He was always going to need to move in the pros.

He could have become a Randle El type.

No doubt

KCStud
08-05-2015, 09:18 AM
Well his screen name is Bosschief so I guess he's not really in the closet?

Wasn't talking about BossChief...i was refering to brokebacksteven

ludo21
08-05-2015, 09:25 AM
Appears Arian Foster may be out for the year.

Alfred Blue it is!

oubronco
08-05-2015, 09:43 AM
mark schlereth ‏<S>@</S>markschlereth <SMALL class=time>16m16 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/markschlereth/status/628965302269640704) </SMALL>
Why I believe Chip Kelly will be coaching in college next season! PodcastOne http://bit.ly/1fi2vtd (http://bit.ly/1fi2vtd)


Starts talking about Kelly at the 43:20 mark

SouthStndJunkie
08-05-2015, 09:50 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/05/justin-gilbert-looking-like-another-browns-bust/

Justin Gilbert looking like another Browns bust

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 10:02 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/05/justin-gilbert-looking-like-another-browns-bust/

Justin Gilbert looking like another Browns bust

Man alive, I wanted him so badly last year along with Roby.
Glad we got Roby.

Smiling Assassin27
08-05-2015, 10:07 AM
Alfred Blue it is!

Offered Pierre Thomas a deal this morning and Thomas turned it down.

winstoncup bronco
08-05-2015, 10:08 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/05/justin-gilbert-looking-like-another-browns-bust/

Justin Gilbert looking like another Browns bust

Sucks for the Browns, but it's not really fair when the media portrays a team as bumbling when they draft a guy all of the other teams would have drafted around there anyway. Drafting this kid was not a reach or a stretch; it just goes to show no matter how many reps they do, or how many 40's they run, no matter how many interviews you have with them, it's still an imperfect process.

winstoncup bronco
08-05-2015, 10:10 AM
Appears Arian Foster may be out for the year.

Honestly, I would gauge their interest in Ball and see if we can get them to overpay in a trade. I like Ball, but if everything goes to plan, CJ gets the carries, and Ball just spells him, which Thompson can do nicely anyway IMO.

ludo21
08-05-2015, 10:12 AM
Offered Pierre Thomas a deal this morning and Thomas turned it down.

dumbass must want to be a #2 player again.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 10:18 AM
Sucks for the Browns, but it's not really fair when the media portrays a team as bumbling when they draft a guy all of the other teams would have drafted around there anyway. Drafting this kid was not a reach or a stretch; it just goes to show no matter how many reps they do, or how many 40's they run, no matter how many interviews you have with them, it's still an imperfect process.

Spot on Winston. The draft is nothing more than an educated guess.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 10:19 AM
Honestly, I would gauge their interest in Ball and see if we can get them to overpay in a trade. I like Ball, but if everything goes to plan, CJ gets the carries, and Ball just spells him, which Thompson can do nicely anyway IMO.

Yep, if I was Elway I'd be on the phone with Houston...

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 10:23 AM
Spot on Winston. The draft is nothing more than an educated guess.

I wouldn't say an educated guess but there is some luck involved.
Gilbert was the near consensus top CB in that draft and the added ability of returning punts and kicks was too good to pass up.
Dennard was considered by most experts to be the next best guy and he fell to #24.
Kyle Fuller and Bradley Roby were considered the late risers and they had the stand out seasons for first round CB's.

Gilbert, Dennard and Verrett all flopped last year. It will be interesting to see how they approach their seasons this time.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 10:29 AM
I wouldn't say an educated guess but there is some luck involved.
Gilbert was the near consensus top CB in that draft and the added ability of returning punts and kicks was too good to pass up.
Dennard was considered by most experts to be the next best guy and he fell to #24.
Kyle Fuller and Bradley Roby were considered the late risers and they had the stand out seasons for first round CB's.

Gilbert, Dennard and Verrett all flopped last year. It will be interesting to see how they approach their seasons this time.

Point being is you can do all the research you want on a player, then draft him, and he never pans out. On the opposite side of that same coin are the Terrell Davis and Tom Brady and Rod Smiths of the NFL. The NFL draft is one large educated guessing game, and history proves this over and over.

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 10:30 AM
Yep, if I was Elway I'd be on the phone with Houston...great scenario but only if Houston initiates the call.

socalorado
08-05-2015, 10:32 AM
Honestly, I would gauge their interest in Ball and see if we can get them to overpay in a trade. I like Ball, but if everything goes to plan, CJ gets the carries, and Ball just spells him, which Thompson can do nicely anyway IMO.

And Bibbs looks real good in Kubes system so far from all camp reports.
Yeah, trade Ball and throw Hill an in to sweeten the deal.

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 10:33 AM
Point being is you can do all the research you want on a player, then draft him, and he never pans out. On the opposite side of that same coin are the Terrell Davis and Tom Brady and Rod Smiths of the NFL. The NFL draft is one large educated guessing game, and history proves this over and over.

That is partially true but that is also why certain teams draft extremely well and have tremendous success.
That is not merely guessing. That is creating a culture and ensuring that the players you bring in fit that culture.

Good teams have a identity, great teams have a culture. The Browns have neither.

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 10:36 AM
Honestly, I would gauge their interest in Ball and see if we can get them to overpay in a trade. I like Ball, but if everything goes to plan, CJ gets the carries, and Ball just spells him, which Thompson can do nicely anyway IMO.spelling CJ is one thing, responding to an injury is another., last thing we need is a cubboard bare situation like we experienced during the knowshon years.
Has HILLMAN learned to block yet?
that's what is keeping him off the field, as much as anything else !

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 10:39 AM
That is partially true but that is also why certain teams draft extremely well and have tremendous success.
That is not merely guessing. That is creating a culture and ensuring that the players you bring in fit that culture.

Good teams have a identity, great teams have a culture. The Browns have neither.

Good teams have a identity, great teams have a culture. The Browns have neither.[/
this is a great line, is it yours or did you borrow it from a professional.

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 10:44 AM
That is partially true but that is also why certain teams draft extremely well and have tremendous success.
That is not merely guessing. That is creating a culture and ensuring that the players you bring in fit that culture.

Good teams have a identity, great teams have a culture. The Browns have neither.

Good teams have a identity, great teams have a culture. The Browns have neither.[/
this is a great line, is it yours or did you borrow it from a professional.

It is something I tend to notice when teams talk about themselves.
Good teams talk about their identity, championship teams talk about the culture that has been created from the top down.
When you have neither then you as a franchise tend to not be very successful.
The Browns are constantly in flux, you cannot win that way.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 11:01 AM
That is partially true but that is also why certain teams draft extremely well and have tremendous success.
That is not merely guessing. That is creating a culture and ensuring that the players you bring in fit that culture.

Good teams have a identity, great teams have a culture. The Browns have neither.

Not really. Packers were aweful throughout the 70s and 80s and only got good when the right coaching staff/front office and a HoF QB came along. Seattle never really had a culture of winning, but now they do. Also the Niners were a joke for years and years before Walsh got there. Need any more proof?

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 11:45 AM
Not really. Packers were aweful throughout the 70s and 80s and only got good when the right coaching staff/front office and a HoF QB came along. Seattle never really had a culture of winning, but now they do. Also the Niners were a joke for years and years before Walsh got there. Need any more proof?

I don't get your post. I already said this.
When I stated "That is creating a culture and ensuring that the players you bring in fit that culture."

That includes the FO, coaching staff and etc. That goes without saying.
You cannot create a culture with those pieces in place. That is how you ensure that the players you bring in fit that culture and allow you to draft well.
All of those teams you mentioned draft well, primarily lean on the draft to improve and sprinkle in select outside FA's.
You do not see a whole lot of busts with them due to the way they run their programs.

winstoncup bronco
08-05-2015, 12:01 PM
I don't get your post. I already said this.
When I stated "That is creating a culture and ensuring that the players you bring in fit that culture."

That includes the FO, coaching staff and etc. That goes without saying.
You cannot create a culture with those pieces in place. That is how you ensure that the players you bring in fit that culture and allow you to draft well.
All of those teams you mentioned draft well, primarily lean on the draft to improve and sprinkle in select outside FA's.
You do not see a whole lot of busts with them due to the way they run their programs.

True, but good fortune also has a lot to do with it.

A guy like Jamarcus Russell for example. He was the consensus #1 pick all draft season, but he never put it together. The vast majority of teams picking there would have taken him. He had the measurables, the numbers, etc. Can't fault a team for taking him though. On the other hand, taking a guy like DHB 7th overall when he was a late 1st round projection at best, is a bust that goes against you.

Everyone calls the draft a crapshoot, and rightfully so, because when you get down to it, that's all it is. If it were an exact science, guys wouldn't bust out of the league. Some teams are more successful than others, but every single franchise is at risk of that major draft failure through no fault of their own.

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 12:58 PM
True, but good fortune also has a lot to do with it.

A guy like Jamarcus Russell for example. He was the consensus #1 pick all draft season, but he never put it together. The vast majority of teams picking there would have taken him. He had the measurables, the numbers, etc. Can't fault a team for taking him though. On the other hand, taking a guy like DHB 7th overall when he was a late 1st round projection at best, is a bust that goes against you.

Everyone calls the draft a crapshoot, and rightfully so, because when you get down to it, that's all it is. If it were an exact science, guys wouldn't bust out of the league. Some teams are more successful than others, but every single franchise is at risk of that major draft failure through no fault of their own.

Again, I am not saying that the draft is a easy thing to master. No team truly ever does.
I am saying that teams who have a set system and culture in place tend to have more success than others.

There is a reason why so many people remark that as soon as a player is taken by a team like the Browns now or the Jags, Bengals and Raiders(hell still at times with the Raiders) that the assumption is he will bust regardless of his talent level.

Certain players have to go to a franchise that can reign them in. Hell look at Dez Bryant. There are not a lot of franchises that would be inventive with the way they watch him and keep him out of trouble. Most would have simply let him do what he wanted and allowed him to screw up and get bounced from the league.

if you are going to take a risk then you have to have the structure in place to allow that player to be successful.

baja
08-05-2015, 01:46 PM
I wouldn't say an educated guess but there is some luck involved.
Gilbert was the near consensus top CB in that draft and the added ability of returning punts and kicks was too good to pass up.
Dennard was considered by most experts to be the next best guy and he fell to #24.
Kyle Fuller and Bradley Roby were considered the late risers and they had the stand out seasons for first round CB's.

Gilbert, Dennard and Verrett all flopped last year. It will be interesting to see how they approach their seasons this time.

This leads me to believe coaching and the organization are so very important to developing raw talent. There is a reason the Browns have so many busts and the Ravens have so many players that become top players

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 02:09 PM
This leads me to believe coaching and the organization are so very important to developing raw talent. There is a reason the Browns have so many busts and the Ravens have so many players that become top players

That is my belief. The line between great and mediocre is finite.
It is the structure of your organization from the top on down that defines you.
Great organizations have a clear and concise message from the owner to the athletic trainer.
The vision is the same, the goal is the same and the culture is one of winning.

That is part of what Elway meant when he spoke about getting the locker room right.

Br0nc0Buster
08-05-2015, 02:20 PM
surprised Gilbert is so bad

But if there is a bust among the consensus top players of their position, leave it to the Browns to sniff him out

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 02:36 PM
surprised Gilbert is so bad

But if there is a bust among the consensus top players of their position, leave it to the Browns to sniff him out

I am trying to think. Outside of Mack,Thomas and Haden, who have the Browns drafted who was a consensus top prospect and actually had them work out.

Faine, Winslow, Edwards, Green, Warren and Brown all busted.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 04:33 PM
I don't get your post. I already said this.
When I stated "That is creating a culture and ensuring that the players you bring in fit that culture."

That includes the FO, coaching staff and etc. That goes without saying.
You cannot create a culture with those pieces in place. That is how you ensure that the players you bring in fit that culture and allow you to draft well.
All of those teams you mentioned draft well, primarily lean on the draft to improve and sprinkle in select outside FA's.
You do not see a whole lot of busts with them due to the way they run their programs.

What you are implying is that Gilbert is a bust because of the Browns. What I am saying is that is simply not true. I cannot recall when a draft bust player went to another team and all of a sudden became an all pro. Think Trent Richardson, he's a good example of guessing wrong.

Gort
08-05-2015, 05:00 PM
I cannot recall when a draft bust player went to another team and all of a sudden became an all pro.

Steve Young sorta comes close, if you consider his TB years to be the beginning of his career.

DENVERDUI55
08-05-2015, 05:09 PM
What you are implying is that Gilbert is a bust because of the Browns. What I am saying is that is simply not true. I cannot recall when a draft bust player went to another team and all of a sudden became an all pro. Think Trent Richardson, he's a good example of guessing wrong.

Simeon Rice?

broncosteven
08-05-2015, 05:18 PM
Yeah, here's his year by year int totals

5 2011
5 2012
7 2013
6 2014

Yeah, a real INT machine
Convenient that you started at 2011 and not back when he was throwing 16 TD's and 16 INTs or the year he had 14 TD to 10 INTs...

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 05:18 PM
Steve Young sorta comes close, if you consider his TB years to be the beginning of his career.respectfully, Steve Young was never, ever considered a bust.
The only time he is associated with "bust" is BUST in canton ohio.
did his tampa team suck, yes ! was he considered a BUST NEVER !
archie manning.
would you call HIM A BUST ?
go back to your vending machine and push another button.

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 05:21 PM
There may have been a few that considered jim plunkett a bust
I honestly don't recall much of his early career !
conversely, TEBOW is a total NFL bust,
but millions of people seem to be blind to that reality !

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 05:26 PM
jamarcus russel had bust written all over him !
jaimus Winston
marcus mariotta.
which one has BUST potential in his DNA?
its WINSTON, see king crab for details !

broncosteven
08-05-2015, 05:35 PM
There may have been a few that considered jim plunkett a bust
I honestly don't recall much of his early career !
conversely, TEBOW is a total NFL bust,
but millions of people seem to be blind to that reality !

There were a lot of broadcasters that didn't expect Plunket to do as well as he did with the Raiders. He probably would have been a bust if he went anywhere else as the main reason Al signed him was because of his arm and ability to chuck it deep and let Branch run under it.

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 05:46 PM
What you are implying is that Gilbert is a bust because of the Browns. What I am saying is that is simply not true. I cannot recall when a draft bust player went to another team and all of a sudden became an all pro. Think Trent Richardson, he's a good example of guessing wrong.

The Browns are a mess of a organization. They do not develop players well at all and when they do those players tend to be pushed out of town or feel the need to leave on their own due to the losing.
Great franchises develop talent even when that talent is a bit risky.

Pac Man Jones. Bust in 05-06, all pro in 2014.

Martellus Bennett bust in 08-11, pro bowl in 2014.

Rolando McClain bust with the Raiders, now one of the impact players on the Cowboys defense.

Jerry Hughes bust from 10-12, one of the best sack artists in the NFL for the Bills for the past 2 seasons.

Jason Babin bust from 04-09, 2 time pro bowler in 2010 and 2011.

Calvin Pace was considered a bust outside of his final year in Arizona when he was playing for a contract and is now one of the better OLB's in the NFL.

Brandon Lloyd bust from 03-09, pro bowler in 2010.

Andre Carter was a bust in SF, went on to become a very good player in Washington and made the pro bowl for NE in 2011.

Kyle Vanden Bosch was a complete bust with Arizona, he went on to become a 3 time pro bowler.

Thomas Jones was a bust with Arizona, he went on to become one of the best running backs in football from 04-09 and made the pro bowl in 2008.

Corey Chavous was a bust in Arizona(notice a trend here?) until his final season when he was playing for a contract, he went on to become one of the better safeties in football and made the pro bowl in 2003.

James Farrior was considered a bust with the Jets and even after his 2001 season the Jets allowed him to walk due to not thinking much of him. Went on to become a 2 time pro bowler, a 2 time all pro and arguably one of the greatest LB's in Steeler history.

Hugh Douglas was considered a bust after starting off strong for the Jets he was dealt to the Eagles where he become a 3 time pro bowler, 2 time all pro and ranks 4th on the Eagles career sacks list.

I could have listed Kevin Mawae and Vontae Davis as well but despite a lot people viewing them as busts when they changed teams, they actually had some decent numbers.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 06:01 PM
And all those players who started off with one team and then went to another team and became successful did not go from a culture of losing to a culture of winning, they simply switched teams. At best, all that proves is one team knew how to use a player while the other team did not.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 06:05 PM
Also it proves some players take time to mature...

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 06:16 PM
And all those players who started off with one team and then went to another team and became successful did not go from a culture of losing to a culture of winning, they simply switched teams. At best, all that proves is one team knew how to use a player while the other team did not.

So first you state that it does not happen or rather that you cannot remember it happening. Then you say it is about the player maturing and simply switching teams.

Hughes is the only one who went from a winning franchise to a losing one after leaving the team that drafted him where they developed.

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 06:35 PM
There were a lot of broadcasters that didn't expect Plunket to do as well as he did with the Raiders. He probably would have been a bust if he went anywhere else as the main reason Al signed him was because of his arm and ability to chuck it deep and let Branch run under it. the right sytem for the right skill set, I get that.
yet, a bust is a guy who shows tremendous talent or athleticism, but because they aint right in the head they fail !
BUSTS all have one thing in common, BAD ATTITUDE !
haynesworth
jamarcus Russell
jeff George
jay cutler
mandarich
the boz
manzel
the only exception I can think of is TEBOW !
great human being, great attitude, lousy QB !

BossChief
08-05-2015, 06:36 PM
Convenient that you started at 2011 and not back when he was throwing 16 TD's and 16 INTs or the year he had 14 TD to 10 INTs...

How would that be relevant to the conversation?

CHEF LUIGI
08-05-2015, 06:39 PM
The Browns are a mess of a organization. They do not develop players well at all and when they do those players tend to be pushed out of town or feel the need to leave on their own due to the losing.
Great franchises develop talent even when that talent is a bit risky.

Pac Man Jones. Bust in 05-06, all pro in 2014.

Martellus Bennett bust in 08-11, pro bowl in 2014.

Rolando McClain bust with the Raiders, now one of the impact players on the Cowboys defense.

Jerry Hughes bust from 10-12, one of the best sack artists in the NFL for the Bills for the past 2 seasons.

Jason Babin bust from 04-09, 2 time pro bowler in 2010 and 2011.

Calvin Pace was considered a bust outside of his final year in Arizona when he was playing for a contract and is now one of the better OLB's in the NFL.

Brandon Lloyd bust from 03-09, pro bowler in 2010.

Andre Carter was a bust in SF, went on to become a very good player in Washington and made the pro bowl for NE in 2011.

Kyle Vanden Bosch was a complete bust with Arizona, he went on to become a 3 time pro bowler.

Thomas Jones was a bust with Arizona, he went on to become one of the best running backs in football from 04-09 and made the pro bowl in 2008.

Corey Chavous was a bust in Arizona(notice a trend here?) until his final season when he was playing for a contract, he went on to become one of the better safeties in football and made the pro bowl in 2003.

James Farrior was considered a bust with the Jets and even after his 2001 season the Jets allowed him to walk due to not thinking much of him. Went on to become a 2 time pro bowler, a 2 time all pro and arguably one of the greatest LB's in Steeler history.

Hugh Douglas was considered a bust after starting off strong for the Jets he was dealt to the Eagles where he become a 3 time pro bowler, 2 time all pro and ranks 4th on the Eagles career sacks list.

I could have listed Kevin Mawae and Vontae Davis as well but despite a lot people viewing them as busts when they changed teams, they actually had some decent numbers.great list !

Gort
08-05-2015, 06:40 PM
respectfully, Steve Young was never, ever considered a bust.
The only time he is associated with "bust" is BUST in canton ohio.
did his tampa team suck, yes ! was he considered a BUST NEVER !
archie manning.
would you call HIM A BUST ?
go back to your vending machine and push another button.

dude. you should really switch to decaf.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 07:03 PM
So first you state that it does not happen or rather that you cannot remember it happening. Then you say it is about the player maturing and simply switching teams.

Hughes is the only one who went from a winning franchise to a losing one after leaving the team that drafted him where they developed.

At best it proves free agency works!

SonOfLe-loLang
08-05-2015, 08:23 PM
What you are implying is that Gilbert is a bust because of the Browns. What I am saying is that is simply not true. I cannot recall when a draft bust player went to another team and all of a sudden became an all pro. Think Trent Richardson, he's a good example of guessing wrong.

Vinny Testaverde is another example of a guy who was written off that went elsewhere to become pretty good.

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 08:30 PM
Vinny Testaverde is another example of a guy who was written off that went elsewhere to become pretty good.

Yeah, there are 10 other examples of it but I didn't want to go farther than 1994. And I got tired of typing.
Lincoln Kennedy is another. As is Ted Washington.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2015, 08:47 PM
Yeah, there are 10 other examples of it but I didn't want to go farther than 1994. And I got tired of typing.
Lincoln Kennedy is another. As is Ted Washington.

So all these teams that couldn't develop a player is because they are a loser franchise? The he point I'm making is that a lot of teams and scouts and others thought Gilbert was gonna be good. The only way to know if Gilbert is not a bust and that it's more the Browns factory of sadness is to see if he turns it around with another team or if (hypothetically speaking) he was drafted by a team like the Broncos he pans out.

But my main point still stands and that is the draft is an educated guess.

IndelibleScribe
08-05-2015, 09:22 PM
So all these teams that couldn't develop a player is because they are a loser franchise? The he point I'm making is that a lot of teams and scouts and others thought Gilbert was gonna be good. The only way to know if Gilbert is not a bust and that it's more the Browns factory of sadness is to see if he turns it around with another team or if (hypothetically speaking) he was drafted by a team like the Broncos he pans out.

But my main point still stands and that is the draft is an educated guess.

There is a correlation between really good franchises and their ability to develop players. Crappy franchises tend to draft busts and routinely so. Great franchises tend to hit on their picks both early and late with the ability to overcome the few misses they incur.

BossChief
08-06-2015, 07:49 AM
So all these teams that couldn't develop a player is because they are a loser franchise? The he point I'm making is that a lot of teams and scouts and others thought Gilbert was gonna be good. The only way to know if Gilbert is not a bust and that it's more the Browns factory of sadness is to see if he turns it around with another team or if (hypothetically speaking) he was drafted by a team like the Broncos he pans out.

But my main point still stands and that is the draft is an educated guess.

Coaching and surrounding talent play a huge role in the effectiveness of rookies, as do the specific talents they have and how those talents match up with what they're asked to do. In today's NFL, there are less than 10 CBs that can be highly effective without the defense having a solid pass rush.

You take Gilbert and put him on KC, Buffalo, Denver or any of the other teams with a good pass rush and he appears much better than he did on a team like Cleveland.

Especially when talking about CBs, their effectiveness is greatly weighted by the players around them.

If the team has a top notch pass rush, the corners know they have to cover for less time per pass play..that means they can focus on certain routes and concepts instead of having to cover everything. They don't have to worry as much about getting beat deep because the opposing offense won't scheme to have that many 5 and 7 step drops. They can watch the hips of the receiver and try to jump routes.

If the defense they get drafted into already has a #1 corner, they are going to be facing opponents second or third option a lot.

If they have good safety play behind them, they can put more emphasis on the routes that are run within the first 20 yards.

If the front 7 is good at stopping the run, they don't have to be as aware of run support.

Where a player is drafted factors in hugely to how effective he will be.

oubronco
08-06-2015, 10:04 AM
Adam Schefter ‏<S>@</S>AdamSchefter <SMALL class=time>16s17 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/629337059656880128) </SMALL>
DeSean Jackson separated his shoulder, expected to miss a couple weeks, per <S>@</S>diannaESPN (https://twitter.com/diannaESPN). DeAngelo Hall injured his groin, out about a week.


Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo ∑ 1m1 minute ago

Mike Garafolo retweeted Dianna Marie Russini
Lost his battle with a blocking sled today.


Mike Garafolo added,

Dianna Marie Russini @diannaESPN DeSean Jackson has a separated shoulder (Grade 2) expected to miss a few weeks per sources #Redskins

broncosteven
08-06-2015, 02:36 PM
mCfadden showing he is made of glass. Hope John shops Ball to Jerry for a Tackle.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000506998/article/darren-mcfadden-feeling-good-could-return-saturday

Darren McFadden has yet to see the field during Dallas Cowboys training camp. That could change this weekend.

After doing some side work Wednesday, McFadden will test out his tweaked hamstring today and decide if he can practice on Saturday (the Cowboys have Friday off), per the Dallas Morning News.

Play NFL Fantasy Football!

"I went out there and did a couple of good runs for a few days and I'm feeling good, didn't get sore or anything," McFadden said Wednesday. "I did a little straight-line running and a little cutting, so I got a good feel for it. It's one of those things where the trainers want to make sure I can put a couple of days back to back before they throw me back out there. I'm just looking forward to getting back out there on the field. No soreness or swelling the next day, so definitely a good sign for me."

If the frustration level is rising in Cowboys camp about McFadden's inability to stay on the field, it begins with the running back.

More above

Rocket 7
08-07-2015, 07:52 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BreakingNews?src=hash">#BreakingNews</a>- <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/49ers?src=hash">#49ers</a> Aldon Smith arrested by Santa Clara Police, last night. He was booked into Santa Clara County Jail.</p>&mdash; Matt Keller (@MattKellerABC7) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattKellerABC7/status/629656819523190785">August 7, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

brom66an6
08-07-2015, 07:59 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BreakingNews?src=hash">#BreakingNews</a>- <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/49ers?src=hash">#49ers</a> Aldon Smith arrested by Santa Clara Police, last night. He was booked into Santa Clara County Jail.</p>&mdash; Matt Keller (@MattKellerABC7) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattKellerABC7/status/629656819523190785">August 7, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It seems like he will never learn his lesson. Yet another DUI and this time with a hit and run with vandalism as well.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/07/aldon-smith-arrested-for-dui-hit-and-run-and-vandalism/

Br0nc0Buster
08-07-2015, 08:00 AM
On Twitter they are saying Aldon was arrested for a DUI, hit and run, and vandalism

Dude is going down the Justin Blackman route I see

Career may be in jeopardy now

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-07-2015, 08:00 AM
Jed York crying about winning with class should mean Smith is cut today. He's got at least a year long suspension coming now.

SouthStndJunkie
08-07-2015, 08:02 AM
Aldon Smith was suspended for 9 games last season.

Dude may get suspended for the entire season.

Br0nc0Buster
08-07-2015, 08:03 AM
btw barring qb retirement has there ever been a team just completely collapse like the Niners are doing?

With that caveman as their HC and half their defense from a year ago gone they have a chance to seriously suck this year

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-07-2015, 08:04 AM
btw barring qb retirement has there ever been a team just completely collapse like the Niners are doing?

With that caveman as their HC and half their defense from a year ago gone they have a chance to seriously suck this year

12 arrests since 2012. Most in the league.

SouthStndJunkie
08-07-2015, 08:06 AM
He and Von Miller were on a similar path leading out of the NFL for a while.

I'm glad to see Von Miller test clean for 2 years and get out of the testing system.

Knock on wood, I hope Von has learned his lesson.

Aldon Smith is going to piss away a potential Hall of Fame career and millions of dollars.

CHEF LUIGI
08-07-2015, 08:11 AM
If you have talent,youcan commit vehicular homocide and still play in the nfl.
they call it a second chance.
if you are a total scumbag,there is always the raiders or the Cowboys, and it would appear that the pats have earned that distinction too.

CHEF LUIGI
08-07-2015, 08:15 AM
The nfl has hired its own team of private investigators to determine if smith,s tires were properly inflated.

CHEF LUIGI
08-07-2015, 08:16 AM
He and Von Miller were on a similar path leading out of the NFL for a while.

I'm glad to see Von Miller test clean for 2 years and get out of the testing system.

Knock on wood, I hope Von has learned his lesson.

Aldon Smith is going to piss away a potential Hall of Fame career and millions of dollars.

Um, dumerville.

Powderaddict
08-07-2015, 08:17 AM
He and Von Miller were on a similar path leading out of the NFL for a while.

I'm glad to see Von Miller test clean for 2 years and get out of the testing system.

Knock on wood, I hope Von has learned his lesson.

Aldon Smith is going to piss away a potential Hall of Fame career and millions of dollars.

Von got busted smoking weed, hardly "on a similar path"!

BossChief
08-07-2015, 08:18 AM
If you have talent,youcan commit vehicular homocide and still play in the nfl.
they call it a second chance.
if you are a total scumbag,there is always the raiders or the Cowboys, and it would appear that the pats have earned that distinction too.

Antonio Smith has been investigated for child sexual abuse twice.

Elway had no problem signing him.

BossChief
08-07-2015, 08:19 AM
Von got busted smoking weed, hardly "on a similar path"!

I think he meant productivity wise...

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-07-2015, 08:23 AM
I think he meant productivity wise...

"A similar path leading out of the NFL".

That's not talking about production.

CHEF LUIGI
08-07-2015, 08:23 AM
Antonio Smith has been investigated for child sexual abuse twice.

Elway had no problem signing him.judge she told me she was 18, and when that big red beaver was staring me in the face, she looked alot older too.
One flew over the cookoos nest

BossChief
08-07-2015, 08:24 AM
btw barring qb retirement has there ever been a team just completely collapse like the Niners are doing?

With that caveman as their HC and half their defense from a year ago gone they have a chance to seriously suck this year

On paper, they are probably the worst team in the NFL.

It's obvious which side of the fence (management or JH) the roster was on.

Players are doing everything they can to get out.

(Obviously this is a general statement about the team and not in any way having to do with ASs recent idiocracy)

CHEF LUIGI
08-07-2015, 08:25 AM
I think he meant productivity wise...

Menace to society productivity.

SouthStndJunkie
08-07-2015, 08:25 AM
Von got busted smoking weed, hardly "on a similar path"!

I meant they were both Top 10 picks in the 2011 draft, they both enjoyed immediate success, and both got into enough trouble that they were suspended for large chunks of time because of their actions. Their methods of getting suspended were different, but the end result of both of their actions were the same....suspensions.

It appears Aldon's DOC is alcohol, Von's appeared to be weed.

Thankfully, Von pulled it together and pissed clean for two years.

I'd love nothing more than to see Von stay out of any more trouble and have a Hall of Fame career with Denver.

BossChief
08-07-2015, 08:26 AM
"A similar path leading out of the NFL".

That's not talking about production.

I might be wrong, but "leading out" seems to indicate how they did right out of the gates.

Huge sack numbers

BossChief
08-07-2015, 08:28 AM
I meant they were both Top 10 picks in the 2011 draft, they both enjoyed immediate success, and both got into enough trouble that they were suspended for large chunks of time because of their actions. Their methods of getting suspended were different, but the end result of both of their actions were the same....suspensions.

It appears Aldon's DOC is alcohol, Von's appeared to be weed.

Thankfully, Von pulled it together and pissed clean for two years.

I'd love nothing more than to see Von stay out of any more trouble and have a Hall of Fame career with Denver.

I hope (for the sake of the game) Von Miller stays clean.

The game needs as many Von Millers, JJ Watts and Justin Houston's as it can get.

It's a shame Aldon can't get his head screwed on tighter.

CHEF LUIGI
08-07-2015, 08:29 AM
I might be wrong, but "leading out" seems to indicate how they did right out of the gates.

Huge sack numbers
your lack of reading comprehention explains alot.
but then again, you are a kc fan so I should have lowered expectations from the start.

IndelibleScribe
08-07-2015, 09:01 AM
Man alive that kid has issues. Someone needs to get involved in his live and help him out. He is damn close to ruining his career and ended up as a tragic NFL story.

SouthStndJunkie
08-07-2015, 07:45 PM
ST. LOUIS -- Without so much as playing in a game for the St. Louis Rams, quarterback Nick Foles signed a contract extension with the team Friday night.

The extension is for two years on top of the one year Foles had remaining on his rookie contract and could keep the quarterback with the Rams through the 2017 season.

Sources told ESPN that the deal is worth $24.5 million, giving Foles three years and $26 million when combined with the existing year. The 2017 season can be voided based on team wins and if he makes the Pro Bowl, a source said.

BossChief
08-07-2015, 07:59 PM
Foles should fire his agent.

Stupid to sign that pittance deal.

He should have played 1 year and bet on himself...or demanded a starters pay on a long term deal with a slight discount.

What a p***Y.

BossChief
08-07-2015, 08:01 PM
You guys would do well to try and get Brock to sign a similar deal.

pricejj
08-07-2015, 08:09 PM
Broncos should cut Osweiler at the end of camp. Would result in about $750k cap savings, can keep Siemian under contract for 4 years.

I believe Manning will play for 2 more years.

Gort
08-07-2015, 08:27 PM
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/how-realistic-is-the-hbo-show-ballers-nfl-punter-steve-weatherford-weighs-in

BroncosfanGuy
08-07-2015, 08:35 PM
Broncos should cut Osweiler at the end of camp. Would result in about $750k cap savings, can keep Siemian under contract for 4 years.

I believe Manning will play for 2 more years.

big fan of Trevor Siemian or is this a Dollar Tree move?
and why would the team cut Osweiler instead of getting compensation from him? and before someone says no one will trade for him, let's remember the Cards started Ryan Lindley in a playoff game last year.

Siemian is likely a PS player this year.

Guess Who
08-07-2015, 08:41 PM
Broncos should cut Osweiler at the end of camp. Would result in about $750k cap savings, can keep Siemian under contract for 4 years.

I believe Manning will play for 2 more years.

wow, uh, no.... Why does Denver need $750K in cap space? If Manning gets hurt for three games your looking at having Siemian as the starter....... he is not the answer for this year.

Oz can be a FA at the end of the season and Denver could still keep Siemian.

pricejj
08-07-2015, 08:42 PM
big fan of Trevor Siemian or is this a Dollar Tree move?
and why would the team cut Osweiler instead of getting compensation from him? and before someone says no one will trade for him, let's remember the Cards started Ryan Lindley in a playoff game last year.

Siemian is likely a PS player this year.

From camp reports, it sounds like Osweiler should be a lot further along in year 4 than he is. If you can't trade him for value before final cuts (I seriously doubt it), then just cut him.

It all depends on how he performs in games, but I think Osweiler has been picked off 4 times by Doss and 2 times by Furman. Siemian has much more value at this point in his career. Like Ziggy? said in his camp report. Siemian can take over for Manning in 2017.

Guess Who
08-07-2015, 08:45 PM
From camp reports, it sounds like Osweiler should be a lot further along in year 4 than he is. If you can't trade him for value before final cuts (I seriously doubt it), then just cut him.

It all depends on how he performs in games, but I think Osweiler has been picked off 4 times by Doss and 2 times by Furman. Siemian has much more value at this point in his career. Like Ziggy? said in his camp report. Siemian can take over for Manning in 2017.

In the old system yes, but this is a new system and they have completed the first week of camp.

BroncosfanGuy
08-07-2015, 08:53 PM
From camp reports, it sounds like Osweiler should be a lot further along in year 4 than he is. If you can't trade him for value before final cuts (I seriously doubt it), then just cut him.

It all depends on how he performs in games, but I think Osweiler has been picked off 4 times by Doss and 2 times by Furman. Siemian has much more value at this point in his career. Like Ziggy? said in his camp report. Siemian can take over for Manning in 2017.
what camp reports are you reading or hearing? I've likely read the same reports and listen to the fan like you and nothing indicates he's bombed yet.

as far as not getting any value for him via trade? that's crazy. even a guy like Blaine Gabbert was traded.

to just cut Os without a viable backup to save less than $1mm? yeah, it's not going to happen.

baja
08-07-2015, 09:04 PM
Broncos should cut Osweiler at the end of camp. Would result in about $750k cap savings, can keep Siemian under contract for 4 years.

I believe Manning will play for 2 more years.

They will do exactly this if they do not believe Brock is their guy.

DENVERDUI55
08-07-2015, 09:12 PM
From camp reports, it sounds like Osweiler should be a lot further along in year 4 than he is. If you can't trade him for value before final cuts (I seriously doubt it), then just cut him.

It all depends on how he performs in games, but I think Osweiler has been picked off 4 times by Doss and 2 times by Furman. Siemian has much more value at this point in his career. Like Ziggy? said in his camp report. Siemian can take over for Manning in 2017.

I've yet to see anything from Oz to think he will pan out. Who knows though but it will be a long shot from what we have been hearing.

pricejj
08-07-2015, 09:17 PM
what camp reports are you reading or hearing? I've likely read the same reports and listen to the fan like you and nothing indicates he's bombed yet.

as far as not getting any value for him via trade? that's crazy. even a guy like Blaine Gabbert was traded.

to just cut Os without a viable backup to save less than $1mm? yeah, it's not going to happen.

Lot's of reports indicating that he ain't the man. No reason to carry him if you don't intend on keeping him.

BroncosfanGuy
08-07-2015, 09:25 PM
Lot's of reports indicating that he ain't the man. No reason to carry him if you don't intend on keeping him.

I agree with the last part of your sentence, but they would trade rather than outright cut him. that said, I still don't see that happening when there is zero behind him on the depth chart.

crush17
08-07-2015, 09:28 PM
From camp reports, it sounds like Osweiler should be a lot further along in year 4 than he is. If you can't trade him for value before final cuts (I seriously doubt it), then just cut him.

It all depends on how he performs in games, but I think Osweiler has been picked off 4 times by Doss and 2 times by Furman. Siemian has much more value at this point in his career. Like Ziggy? said in his camp report. Siemian can take over for Manning in 2017.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

IndelibleScribe
08-07-2015, 09:46 PM
From camp reports, it sounds like Osweiler should be a lot further along in year 4 than he is. If you can't trade him for value before final cuts (I seriously doubt it), then just cut him.

It all depends on how he performs in games, but I think Osweiler has been picked off 4 times by Doss and 2 times by Furman. Siemian has much more value at this point in his career. Like Ziggy? said in his camp report. Siemian can take over for Manning in 2017.

Man, sometimes I swear. You just say things to stir **** up for the sake of stirring **** up.

Tombstone RJ
08-07-2015, 10:15 PM
Foles should fire his agent.

Stupid to sign that pittance deal.

He should have played 1 year and bet on himself...or demanded a starters pay on a long term deal with a slight discount.

What a p***Y.

If Foles has a good year he can always renegotiate at the end of the season.

LikeABoss5820
08-08-2015, 04:24 AM
Sucks with Aldon, hope he gets the help he needs, hell of a talent though.

I kinda agree with BossChief, if Foles proves he isnt a product of Chip's system, he could make some real dough at seasons end. They'd probably tag him but still.

And Oz hasnt proven as much as Foles, nor should cost that much if Elway wants to do the same thing with him.

LikeABoss5820
08-08-2015, 04:26 AM
lol at price, good poster but says some really weird ****.

69bronco
08-08-2015, 04:45 AM
Broncos should cut Osweiler at the end of camp. Would result in about $750k cap savings, can keep Siemian under contract for 4 years.

I believe Manning will play for 2 more years.

I don't know a thing about siemian other than he wasn't a great college qb but I totally agree with giving up on brock and peyton playing in 2016 and honoring his contract.

Requiem
08-08-2015, 08:28 AM
Yes, lets cut Osweiler and have the Northwestern kid play for us if Manning were to go down. Brilliant.

Maleficent
08-08-2015, 09:01 PM
TD #5

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most rushing DYAR since 1989. Jerome Bettis ranks 7th. <a href="http://t.co/8MyObwTsqM">pic.twitter.com/8MyObwTsqM</a></p>&mdash; Scott Kacsmar (@FO_ScottKacsmar) <a href="https://twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/630118362698358785">August 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

pricejj
08-08-2015, 09:13 PM
Yes, lets cut Osweiler and have the Northwestern kid play for us if Manning were to go down. Brilliant.

All reports indicate that Osweiler is not having a good camp. Like I said, if they don't like him, there is no reason to keep him. Might as well try and develop a guy like Siemian that you have under contract for 4 more years.

Castinkas
08-08-2015, 09:44 PM
All reports indicate that Osweiler is not having a good camp. Like I said, if they don't like him, there is no reason to keep him. Might as well try and develop a guy like Siemian that you have under contract for 4 more years.

Cut a 2nd round pick that hasn't seen real action? Yikes.

69bronco
08-08-2015, 09:53 PM
All reports indicate that Osweiler is not having a good camp. Like I said, if they don't like him, there is no reason to keep him. Might as well try and develop a guy like Siemian that you have under contract for 4 more years.

If you suck for 3 training camps and pre seasons, you're probably gonna suck for the fourth. If I'm not mistaken the ps rules changes recently and if he were to be cut he could still be retained... If he wasn't swooped up, which I doubt anyone would. Bad pick, swallow your pride john and move on.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-08-2015, 10:16 PM
Makes no sense. I'd still rather have Brock this season than a kid who wasn't very good in college. Perhaps he'll turn into something but his place is on the p-squad. Why the rush to move on from Brock when you can have both

IndelibleScribe
08-09-2015, 12:01 AM
All reports indicate that Osweiler is not having a good camp. Like I said, if they don't like him, there is no reason to keep him. Might as well try and develop a guy like Siemian that you have under contract for 4 more years.

I sincerely doubt Elway is going to go into this season or next relying on a oft injured 7th round draft pick that couldn't beat out Cain Coulter for the starting gig.

It will be interesting to watch Brock's progression this season with some actual PT and a good amount of practice reps.

pricejj
08-09-2015, 12:37 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We are a week in to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BroncosCamp?src=hash">#BroncosCamp</a> and Brock Osweiler had his first &quot;wow&quot; throws of camp. slow start, but progress looks like it's being made</p>&mdash; Cecil Lammey (@CecilLammey) <a href="https://twitter.com/CecilLammey/status/629701662882443264">August 7, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This pretty much sums it up. The decision will be made before final cuts. Hopefully Brock improves. Sorry 'bout the brain fart. Lucky I didn't make a thread for it.:rofl:

winstoncup bronco
08-09-2015, 06:35 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We are a week in to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BroncosCamp?src=hash">#BroncosCamp</a> and Brock Osweiler had his first &quot;wow&quot; throws of camp. slow start, but progress looks like it's being made</p>&mdash; Cecil Lammey (@CecilLammey) <a href="https://twitter.com/CecilLammey/status/629701662882443264">August 7, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This pretty much sums it up. The decision will be made before final cuts. Hopefully Brock improves. Sorry 'bout the brain fart. Lucky I didn't make a thread for it.:rofl:

I get the feeling he's getting more coaching now than he did the past few years combined. I think Brock was viewed as just being there, and the coaches never gave him the attention he needed since he wasn't going to keep their paychecks coming anyway.

I always felt the defensive side of the ball never played up to their talent, and I'm thinking now this entire team had success in spite of the impotent coaching it received.

With Kubiak in town, I am much more comfortable with Brock's development. Kubes is much more qualified than anyone on the previous staff was to determine if Brock is worth keeping around, and I would be OK with whatever decision he makes.

broncogary
08-09-2015, 07:51 AM
I get the feeling he's getting more coaching now than he did the past few years combined. I think Brock was viewed as just being there, and the coaches never gave him the attention he needed since he wasn't going to keep their paychecks coming anyway.

I always felt the defensive side of the ball never played up to their talent, and I'm thinking now this entire team had success in spite of the impotent coaching it received.

With Kubiak in town, I am much more comfortable with Brock's development. Kubes is much more qualified than anyone on the previous staff was to determine if Brock is worth keeping around, and I would be OK with whatever decision he makes.

Yep, Kubes thought David Carr was a viable starter when he went to Houston.

Gutless Drunk
08-09-2015, 08:19 AM
There was someone on here this off season saying Brock would beat out Manning if there actually was a "fair" competition.

Hilarious!

Gort
08-09-2015, 09:27 AM
has any PFM backup from his time in Indy or here ever gotten any notable playing time in the NFL (minus of course the season he missed in Indy with his neck problems)? it seems to me that being drafted as a QB on a team with Peyton Manning is career suicide. Oz won't be the first, but he might be the last.

Gutless Drunk
08-09-2015, 09:36 AM
has any PFM backup from his time in Indy or here ever gotten any notable playing time in the NFL (minus of course the season he missed in Indy with his neck problems)? it seems to me that being drafted as a QB on a team with Peyton Manning is career suicide. Oz won't be the first, but he might be the last.

or it could be that most QB picks don't amount to much of anything in general.

Tombstone RJ
08-09-2015, 09:43 AM
Yep, Kubes thought David Carr was a viable starter when he went to Houston.

Did Kubes draft Carr? Maybe he was just working with what he had? Carr was the number one pick and i'm sure Kubiak tried his best to make him worthy of that draft pick position.

bronco militia
08-09-2015, 09:44 AM
Did Kubes draft Carr? Maybe he was just working with what he had? Carr was the number one pick and i'm sure Kubiak tried his best to make him worthy of that draft pick position.

lol...yes

HOUSTON -- The Houston Texans waived quarterback David Carr,
the first draft pick in franchise history five years ago, and
running back Domanick Williams.
The Texans never have had a winning record, and Carr often was
the scapegoat. He completed 60 percent of his passes, but also
threw 65 interceptions and was sacked 249 times in five seasons.

Houston hoped Carr would flourish under new coach Gary Kubiak
last season, but the Texans went 6-10.

a polished turd is still a turd....see jake plummer

Wes Mantooth
08-09-2015, 09:46 AM
Yep, Kubes thought David Carr was a viable starter when he went to Houston.

Carr was damaged goods by the time kubes got there.

IndelibleScribe
08-09-2015, 09:55 AM
has any PFM backup from his time in Indy or here ever gotten any notable playing time in the NFL (minus of course the season he missed in Indy with his neck problems)? it seems to me that being drafted as a QB on a team with Peyton Manning is career suicide. Oz won't be the first, but he might be the last.

No, but the back ups were always taken in round 6 or later and were at best considered to be journeyman prospects coming out.
They just stood around holding a clipboard and Manning took all the reps in practice.

This is really the first year in which Brock is getting not only a good portion of the reps but also playing a nice bit with the first team and quite frankly, getting really good 1 on 1 teaching from the coaching staff.

winstoncup bronco
08-09-2015, 09:56 AM
Yep, Kubes thought David Carr was a viable starter when he went to Houston.

Please explain, given that Carr was drafted in 2002, and Kubiak wasn't named HC until 2006.

IndelibleScribe
08-09-2015, 10:07 AM
Please explain, given that Carr was drafted in 2002, and Kubiak wasn't named HC until 2006.

He likely means that since Kubiak did not actively attempt to replace him and find a franchise QB.
Most coaches come in and want "their guy" at QB. Kubiak pretty much works with what he has and moves from there.

BroncosfanGuy
08-09-2015, 10:08 AM
lol...yes

HOUSTON -- The Houston Texans waived quarterback David Carr,
the first draft pick in franchise history five years ago, and
running back Domanick Williams.
The Texans never have had a winning record, and Carr often was
the scapegoat. He completed 60 percent of his passes, but also
threw 65 interceptions and was sacked 249 times in five seasons.

Houston hoped Carr would flourish under new coach Gary Kubiak
last season, but the Texans went 6-10.

a polished turd is still a turd....see jake plummer
Plummer was the best QB Denver had in the time btwn Elway and Manning. As far as Carr, he was pretty much broken by the time Kubes showed up in Houston. Maybe he would have been a bust anyway, but I think the guy was done based on the amount of hits he took before that.

winstoncup bronco
08-09-2015, 10:37 AM
He likely means that since Kubiak did not actively attempt to replace him and find a franchise QB.
Most coaches come in and want "their guy" at QB. Kubiak pretty much works with what he has and moves from there.

And that's exactly what Kubiak did. Carr only played under Kubiak for one season.

One.

And by the way, that one season was where he had a career best 68% completion percentage.

So I'm not clear on how Carr's failure is an indictment of Kubiak.

Agamemnon
08-09-2015, 10:57 AM
If Osweiler sucks in the preseason it might well be time to move on, but probably not until after the season. You don't roll with a 7th round rookie as your backup QB...

69bronco
08-09-2015, 11:00 AM
If Osweiler sucks in the preseason it might well be time to move on, but probably not until after the season. You don't roll with a 7th round rookie as your backup QB...

Zac Desert is still on with the team too.

BroncosfanGuy
08-09-2015, 11:04 AM
Zac Desert is still on with the team too.

so a 7th-round rookie and a 7th-round vet who hasn't been able to work his way past Osweiler over multiple offseasons of work.

69bronco
08-09-2015, 11:17 AM
so a 7th-round rookie and a 7th-round vet who hasn't been able to work his way past Osweiler over multiple offseasons of work.

He's looked better than brock imo so sure.

broncogary
08-09-2015, 11:46 AM
And that's exactly what Kubiak did. Carr only played under Kubiak for one season.

One.

And by the way, that one season was where he had a career best 68% completion percentage.

So I'm not clear on how Carr's failure is an indictment of Kubiak.

Not really an indictment. Just find it interesting that many here now say that Osweiler is finally getting some coaching. Two years ago Adam Gase was God's gift to QB coaches. Brock even showed improvement last year. Not surprising he's having a little trouble with the footwork of being under center.

Kubiak got the Houston job by saying he could make do with Carr, a QB who was obviously already damaged goods, yet he didn't coach him up.

Rocket 7
08-09-2015, 11:57 AM
Frank Gifford passed away

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/frank-gifford-nfl-sportscaster-dead-84-1201566299/

oubronco
08-09-2015, 12:14 PM
Around The NFL ‏<S>@</S>AroundTheNFL <SMALL class=time>54s54 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status/630456928355745793) </SMALL>
Buffalo Bills' QB woes intensify http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000508041/article/scrimmage-roundup-buffalo-bills-qb-woes-intensify?campaign=Twitter_atn … (http://t.co/LvykdcJt3Y)

SouthStndJunkie
08-09-2015, 05:18 PM
Tampa Bay Buccaneers linebacker Lavonte David agreed to a five-year contract extension worth $50.25 million on Sunday, according to sources.

The new deal will include $25 million in guaranteed money, sources said. David is heading into the final year of his rookie contract and the Bucs have made it clear all along they wanted to keep him for the long term. A second-round pick in 2012, David has been selected to the All-Pro team, but has not made a Pro Bowl. Coach Lovie Smith has said David is the best outside linebacker in the game.

baja
08-09-2015, 05:38 PM
Tampa Bay Buccaneers linebacker Lavonte David agreed to a five-year contract extension worth $50.25 million on Sunday, according to sources.

The new deal will include $25 million in guaranteed money, sources said. David is heading into the final year of his rookie contract and the Bucs have made it clear all along they wanted to keep him for the long term. A second-round pick in 2012, David has been selected to the All-Pro team, but has not made a Pro Bowl. Coach Lovie Smith has said David is the best outside linebacker in the game.

the guy I wanted

69bronco
08-09-2015, 05:45 PM
the guy I wanted

And then they picked brock the pick before he went to TB :hitself:

NFLBRONCO
08-09-2015, 06:35 PM
the guy I wanted

yep me too

Requiem
08-09-2015, 06:58 PM
the guy I wanted

Most everyone was hoping for David instead of Osweiler.

Dedhed
08-09-2015, 07:00 PM
Kubiak got the Houston job by saying he could make do with Carr, a QB who was obviously already damaged goods, yet he didn't coach him up.

He turned Schaub into gold.

broncogary
08-09-2015, 07:50 PM
He turned Schaub into gold.

:kubiak:

pricejj
08-09-2015, 07:55 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That money looking real good boiii��</p>&mdash; Danny Trevathan (@Grindin_59) <a href="https://twitter.com/Grindin_59/status/630519570990694400">August 9, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Some of y'all tend to forget my man...

ColoradoDarin
08-09-2015, 08:26 PM
Around The NFL ‏<S>@</S>AroundTheNFL <SMALL class=time>54s54 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status/630456928355745793) </SMALL>
Buffalo Bills' QB woes intensify http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000508041/article/scrimmage-roundup-buffalo-bills-qb-woes-intensify?campaign=Twitter_atn Ö (http://t.co/LvykdcJt3Y)

Trade Brock to Buffalo....

Requiem
08-09-2015, 09:51 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That money looking real good boiii��</p>&mdash; Danny Trevathan (@Grindin_59) <a href="https://twitter.com/Grindin_59/status/630519570990694400">August 9, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Some of y'all tend to forget my man...

Doesn't even deserve close to the money David does.

IndelibleScribe
08-09-2015, 10:49 PM
Tampa Bay Buccaneers linebacker Lavonte David agreed to a five-year contract extension worth $50.25 million on Sunday, according to sources.

The new deal will include $25 million in guaranteed money, sources said. David is heading into the final year of his rookie contract and the Bucs have made it clear all along they wanted to keep him for the long term. A second-round pick in 2012, David has been selected to the All-Pro team, but has not made a Pro Bowl. Coach Lovie Smith has said David is the best outside linebacker in the game.

My draft obsession that year was Bobby Wagner. Would not have minded David either.

jmz313
08-10-2015, 03:54 AM
Doesn't even deserve close to the money David does.

Hopefully he's planning on earning it.

oubronco
08-10-2015, 10:05 AM
Baltimore RavensVerified account‏<S>@</S>Ravens <SMALL class=time>57s57 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/630786654329040896) </SMALL>
Steve Smith has announced that this season will be his last. He will retire at the conclusion of the 2015 season. pic.twitter.com/Thn9B3EhSt (http://t.co/Thn9B3EhSt)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMEA_sPUMAAWotJ.jpg (https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/630786654329040896/photo/1)

pricejj
08-10-2015, 10:21 AM
Doesn't even deserve close to the money David does.

The point is, without getting speared in training camp, Trevathan's career has been comparable to David's. Lamenting missing out on David at #58 is like dating Jennifer Lawrence and wishing it was Kate Upton instead.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-10-2015, 10:34 AM
The point is, without getting speared in training camp, Trevathan's career has been comparable to David's. Lamenting missing out on David at #58 is like dating Jennifer Lawrence and wishing it was Kate Upton instead.

David is better. But comparing the 2 Trev has outplayed where he was drafted. I give props to Trev for progressing as a 6th rounder. Unfortunately IMO he will never be the same due to injury.

Requiem
08-10-2015, 10:38 AM
The point is, without getting speared in training camp, Trevathan's career has been comparable to David's. Lamenting missing out on David at #58 is like dating Jennifer Lawrence and wishing it was Kate Upton instead.

Well, if Danny having 250+ less tackles, half the sacks and interceptions of David is "comparable" . . . you might have a point. Too bad that their careers aren't even remotely comparable. One is an All-Pro, three year starter that is one of the league's best OLB. The other is a one-year starter who played well in 2013, but other than that, has either been hurt or a special teams player. There is a huge difference.

(BTW, I like Danny and think he will do fine if his roboknee holds up.)

jmz313
08-10-2015, 10:38 AM
Not really an indictment. Just find it interesting that many here now say that Osweiler is finally getting some coaching. Two years ago Adam Gase was God's gift to QB coaches. Brock even showed improvement last year. Not surprising he's having a little trouble with the footwork of being under center.

Kubiak got the Houston job by saying he could make do with Carr, a QB who was obviously already damaged goods, yet he didn't coach him up.

Kubiak did beat the manning led colts that first year and that was going to get him whatever he wanted. most promise the texans had shown to that point.

pricejj
08-10-2015, 10:43 AM
David is better. But comparing the 2 Trev has outplayed where he was drafted. I give props to Trev for progressing as a 6th rounder. Unfortunately IMO he will never be the same due to injury.

probably right, but I'm hoping for a miraculous recovery

2KBack
08-10-2015, 11:04 AM
Baltimore RavensVerified account‏<S>@</S>Ravens <SMALL class=time>57s57 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/630786654329040896) </SMALL>
Steve Smith has announced that this season will be his last. He will retire at the conclusion of the 2015 season. pic.twitter.com/Thn9B3EhSt (http://t.co/Thn9B3EhSt)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMEA_sPUMAAWotJ.jpg (https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/630786654329040896/photo/1)

Time to hand the Ravens another championship. Manning needs to announce when his last season is.

bowtown
08-10-2015, 11:22 AM
Time to hand the Ravens another championship. Manning needs to announce when his last season is.

Steve Smith has never been an NFL golden child the way Ray was.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-10-2015, 11:31 AM
Steve Smith has never been an NFL golden child the way Ray was.

Are we still parroting the "NFL fixed the playoffs to send Ray Lewis off with a championship" BS?