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View Full Version : Shanahan: HOF Strategist but a Mediocre Motivator?


hambone13
10-24-2008, 10:29 AM
Let me just say that the only coach out there that I would like to see coaching the Broncos over Mike is Bill Cowher. The reason being, Cowher comes off as the ultimate compliment in the NFL, "A Football Player".

Shanahan strikes me as having an incredible football IQ but a mediocre capacity to relay and inspire passion. His management/coaching style appropriately demands professionalism, work ethic/dedication but doesn't seem to inspire "love of game" and inner fire. When he was younger he seemed to have it. Lately he almost comes off as a salty Grandfather type figure that just expects it rather than being able to create it.

IMHO, I'd love to see Shanny stick around but find a Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Head coach who's perhaps a bit younger at least in spirit. I see him bringing in people like Jeremy Bates who is a model of a young Shanahan, bright but academic. I think we need a Mike Singletary type. An in your face coach that demands passion by sheer will.

jsco70
10-24-2008, 10:38 AM
First off, I still support Shanahan. However, I don't disagree with your take. My thoughts are that in his quest to regain glory, he has lost his sense of patience and loyalty. A coach or player can be fired, promoted, demoted, inactive, waived or cut at the drop of the hat. Therefore, the players see no loyalty towards themselves, so why give it to Shanahan?

The result is what we have seen this year. Inconsistent play with a lack of fire, intensity and passion from everyone except Champ Bailey, and a handful of others.

Ray Finkle
10-24-2008, 10:42 AM
hey wow....another thread like this....

NFLBRONCO
10-24-2008, 10:44 AM
Stevie Wonder could see Shanny wasn't a great motivator never has been.

rugbythug
10-24-2008, 10:48 AM
Great Coaches don't necessarily need to be great motivators. Especially in pro sports. The Best Teams have one Alpha Male that leads the Team and Motivates them to success.

Alpha Males=

Reggie White
Ray Lewis
John Elway
Warren Sapp

We do not have that type of player on this team at this time.

OBF1
10-24-2008, 11:26 AM
So Jake Plummer was an Alpha male ???

The Joker
10-24-2008, 11:46 AM
So Jake Plummer was an Alpha male ???

Al Wilson says hello.

PRBronco
10-24-2008, 12:29 PM
I think Shanny probably alienates a lot of players. Players are much bigger pussies than they used to be. In older generations if a player fumbles or screws up, he gets torn a new one on the sidelines and says "well shucks, I won't let that happen again". Nowadays if Shanny tears someone a new one it's more likely to hurt the players' feelings and leave him sulking, thus achieving the opposite of motivation.

Greybeard
10-24-2008, 12:32 PM
The impression I have often gotten from Shanny's remarks is that these guys
are pros, and they shouldn't need all this "rah rah" stuff. And that has always
concerned me.

I don't care how "pro" they are; they are humans with emotions, and football is
an emotional game. I grew up watching the likes of Vince Lombardi take inferior
teams to championships . . . that is, inferior in overall talent, but the best team
in the league because of chemistry and his emotion. Lombardi was a very
emotional coach.

I still remember his championship victories, such as the one in the "Ice Bowl"
over the heavily talented Dallas Cowboys and their stoic coach Tom Landry.

I remember how Red Miller took the 1977 Denver Broncos to the AFC
Championship over the more talented Pittsburgh Steelers and Oakland Raiders.
Red Miller was an emotional man.

I would not want to do without Shanny's genius. But I would love to see him
surround himself with some emotional people. That's much what Coyer did
with a realitively inferior defense in talent, IMO.

I just wish Shanny would come to the point where he would muse, "We need
some emotion. I'm not emotional. I'm going to get some emotional guys."

/RANT

-----

cutthemdown
10-24-2008, 12:40 PM
shanny knows very little about defense and that's his only x o weakness. If he would give up control and let the team have GM with power and let that guy bring in the d coord then shanny would rule.

But like any man shanny knows it's better to be king, he won 2 superbowls when Broncos were friggin losers.

I think what we are seeing here is fans that lived through 4 superbowl losses realize we were nothing but a joke until we rose up and beat Packers that day. I for one will never say anything bad about Shanny as a coach outside of not knowing defense well, and maybe sometimes making strange calls. But over a decade of watching you are bound too see things that dont work out.

Give Shanny better players and they will win. The defense is full of scrubs and maybe its because shanny doesn't evaluate that aspect very well.

We are rebuilding and found a couple more players this yr. Be confident Shanny knows what he is doing and I for one see real progress.

We had Marshal to start the yr. Now we have Royal we looks like he an be a decent starter or a great 3rd to me.

We found a franchise LT or at least a really good starter.

We found a kicker we seem to be able to rely on.

Those 3 things seem like givens to me who knows some other young players might also contribute next yr like Larsen, Woodyard, Jack Williams etc.

The defense is a mess and will have to be adressed with high picks on the first day and some FA moves if guys are out there. Honestly it could be slim pickens next yr in FA.

Greybeard
10-24-2008, 01:00 PM
shanny knows very little about defense and that's his only x o weakness. If he would give up control and let the team have GM with power and let that guy bring in the d coord then shanny would rule.

But like any man shanny knows it's better to be king, he won 2 superbowls when Broncos were friggin losers.

I think what we are seeing here is fans that lived through 4 superbowl losses realize we were nothing but a joke until we rose up and beat Packers that day. I for one will never say anything bad about Shanny as a coach outside of not knowing defense well, and maybe sometimes making strange calls. But over a decade of watching you are bound too see things that dont work out.

Give Shanny better players and they will win. The defense is full of scrubs and maybe its because shanny doesn't evaluate that aspect very well.

We are rebuilding and found a couple more players this yr. Be confident Shanny knows what he is doing and I for one see real progress.

We had Marshal to start the yr. Now we have Royal we looks like he an be a decent starter or a great 3rd to me.

We found a franchise LT or at least a really good starter.

We found a kicker we seem to be able to rely on.

Those 3 things seem like givens to me who knows some other young players might also contribute next yr like Larsen, Woodyard, Jack Williams etc.

The defense is a mess and will have to be adressed with high picks on the first day and some FA moves if guys are out there. Honestly it could be slim pickens next yr in FA.

You make some good points, but I don't agree that the defense is "full of
scrubs." There are some holes, yes. They are decidedly inferior at safety,
MLB, and depth at DT. But, with Champ, Bly, D.J., Boss, Thomas, Robertson,
and Dumervil, I can't look at the unit and say they are "full of scrubs."

I really believe, as was mentioned elsewhere, they have a very good position
coach but a poor DC in Slowik. I would honestly like to see them take a look
at a Nolan or even a Schottenheimer. While I am usually death on replacing
coaches in midstream, I don't know how they could make it much worse at
this point.

I do like your suggestions regarding Larsen, Woodyard, and J. Williams. I know
from watching Larsen throughout his college career that he breathes fire
and eats the coals. And Woodyard and Williams seem full of fire, too.

Just a little off-topic aside: I never did tolerate the concept that the Broncos
of the '80s were a "joke." Yes, they were creamed in three straight Super
Bowls, but I never forgot there were 30 other teams wishing they were losing
in the SB instead of watching someone else do it. The Broncos were the #2
team in the league all three of those years . . . as well as in 1977. And I
never let rival buddies forget that when they tried to smack me over it. 8')

-----

jsco70
10-24-2008, 01:12 PM
Just a little off-topic aside: I never did tolerate the concept that the Broncos
of the '80s were a "joke." Yes, they were creamed in three straight Super
Bowls, but I never forgot there were 30 other teams wishing they were losing
in the SB instead of watching someone else do it. The Broncos were the #2
team in the league all three of those years . . . as well as in 1977. And I
never let rival buddies forget that when they tried to smack me over it. 8')

-----

I agree with your disagreement. Going to the Super Bowl three times in the span of a few years is still quite a feat, particularly when the talent did not necessarily reflect the accomplishment.

Greybeard
10-24-2008, 01:17 PM
I agree with your disagreement. Going to the Super Bowl three times in the span of a few years is still quite a feat, particularly when the talent did not necessarily reflect the accomplishment.

. . . And Reeves was a motivator, and he backed up what he did by the way he motivated the Giants and later the Falcons.



So I agree with your agreement of my disagreement and disagree with any disagreement of your agreement with my disagreement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISpsK5MwnXY



-----

Beantown Bronco
10-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Did someone say something about motivation?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ISpsK5MwnXY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ISpsK5MwnXY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

FantomForce
10-24-2008, 02:10 PM
Stevie Wonder could see Shanny wasn't a great motivator never has been.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Greybeard
10-24-2008, 02:40 PM
Maybe they ought to go to Rod Smith and beg him on their hands and knees to come in and coach:

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?id=48398@kcnc.dayport.com

-----

uplink
10-24-2008, 04:52 PM
First off, I still support Shanahan. However, I don't disagree with your take. My thoughts are that in his quest to regain glory, he has lost his sense of patience and loyalty. A coach or player can be fired, promoted, demoted, inactive, waived or cut at the drop of the hat. Therefore, the players see no loyalty towards themselves, so why give it to Shanahan?

The result is what we have seen this year. Inconsistent play with a lack of fire, intensity and passion from everyone except Champ Bailey, and a handful of others.

I think this is a very good point. It does seem as if the second half of Shanahan's tenure has been 'what have you done for me lately' regarding
the players.

I was very very surprised at the way Al Wilson was treated.

Tombstone RJ
10-24-2008, 05:51 PM
Let me just say that the only coach out there that I would like to see coaching the Broncos over Mike is Bill Cowher. The reason being, Cowher comes off as the ultimate compliment in the NFL, "A Football Player".

Shanahan strikes me as having an incredible football IQ but a mediocre capacity to relay and inspire passion. His management/coaching style appropriately demands professionalism, work ethic/dedication but doesn't seem to inspire "love of game" and inner fire. When he was younger he seemed to have it. Lately he almost comes off as a salty Grandfather type figure that just expects it rather than being able to create it.

IMHO, I'd love to see Shanny stick around but find a Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Head coach who's perhaps a bit younger at least in spirit. I see him bringing in people like Jeremy Bates who is a model of a young Shanahan, bright but academic. I think we need a Mike Singletary type. An in your face coach that demands passion by sheer will.

Rah-rah coaches don't really do alot for players in the NFL. They got all that type of stuff in hs and college. If they've made it to the NFL, it means they are pretty much self motivated.

It took Cowher a long time to win a SB and I think the Steelers won it because Bettis was retiring and they got on a roll at just the right time. I don't think it had much to do with Cowher getting all jacked up and being excitable.

Bronx33
10-24-2008, 06:00 PM
Did someone say something about motivation?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ISpsK5MwnXY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ISpsK5MwnXY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



great clip.

Cito Pelon
10-24-2008, 06:46 PM
Yah, Shanny is not a great motivator on gameday. I don't recall ever seeing him on the sideline gathering a group of players together when the team is getting smoked. In 14 years as HC of the Broncos, what is the largest deficit overcome by the Shanahan Broncos to win a game? I'm asking, I don't know.

cutthemdown
10-24-2008, 07:56 PM
You make some good points, but I don't agree that the defense is "full of
scrubs." There are some holes, yes. They are decidedly inferior at safety,
MLB, and depth at DT. But, with Champ, Bly, D.J., Boss, Thomas, Robertson,
and Dumervil, I can't look at the unit and say they are "full of scrubs."

I really believe, as was mentioned elsewhere, they have a very good position
coach but a poor DC in Slowik. I would honestly like to see them take a look
at a Nolan or even a Schottenheimer. While I am usually death on replacing
coaches in midstream, I don't know how they could make it much worse at
this point.

I do like your suggestions regarding Larsen, Woodyard, and J. Williams. I know
from watching Larsen throughout his college career that he breathes fire
and eats the coals. And Woodyard and Williams seem full of fire, too.

Just a little off-topic aside: I never did tolerate the concept that the Broncos
of the '80s were a "joke." Yes, they were creamed in three straight Super
Bowls, but I never forgot there were 30 other teams wishing they were losing
in the SB instead of watching someone else do it. The Broncos were the #2
team in the league all three of those years . . . as well as in 1977. And I
never let rival buddies forget that when they tried to smack me over it. 8')

-----

What made Broncos the butt of jokes was being so close and losing the Superbowl. Sure as fans we tried to gloss it up by saying we got to the Superbowl at least. At least we were number 2 four times. In the NFL if you don't win superbowls you don't matter. You don't notice the bills fans reveling in there 2nd place trophies do you? Why? because they don't matter and Bills are joke until they can win a superbowl.

As far as defense being full of scrubs you mentioned what 5-6 players? That mean we have 5-6 scrubs playing also so maybe you just can be more positive then me and see things as glass half full.

Hard for me because I sat at home saying Broncos don't have a SSL, MLB, SS, FS, 3rd corner that are worth playing and it has proven true. I'm mad as hell about the safety's and linebackers because its like the team didn't even try at those spots.

Like you pointed out the Dline with Moss and Thomas, Doom, may have some potential still but with a back end like the Broncos who would know.

yavoon
10-24-2008, 09:41 PM
Rah-rah coaches don't really do alot for players in the NFL. They got all that type of stuff in hs and college. If they've made it to the NFL, it means they are pretty much self motivated.

It took Cowher a long time to win a SB and I think the Steelers won it because Bettis was retiring and they got on a roll at just the right time. I don't think it had much to do with Cowher getting all jacked up and being excitable.

might as well say that nfl players make millions of dollars and none of them would dare do anything to endanger that by breaking the league's conduct policy. players are human beings, they need to be motivated. it doesn't have to be rah rah, but psychologically you can't just say "you are in NFL now, self-motivate." it don't work like that.

Greybeard
10-24-2008, 10:25 PM
What made Broncos the butt of jokes was being so close and losing the Superbowl. Sure as fans we tried to gloss it up by saying we got to the Superbowl at least. At least we were number 2 four times. In the NFL if you don't win superbowls you don't matter. You don't notice the bills fans reveling in there 2nd place trophies do you? Why? because they don't matter and Bills are joke until they can win a superbowl.

As far as defense being full of scrubs you mentioned what 5-6 players? That mean we have 5-6 scrubs playing also so maybe you just can be more positive then me and see things as glass half full.

Hard for me because I sat at home saying Broncos don't have a SSL, MLB, SS, FS, 3rd corner that are worth playing and it has proven true. I'm mad as hell about the safety's and linebackers because its like the team didn't even try at those spots.

Like you pointed out the Dline with Moss and Thomas, Doom, may have some potential still but with a back end like the Broncos who would know.

When fans of teams that did not even get to the SB wanted to disparage the
Broncos who lost in it, I did not take any crap from them. The Broncos played
in it, and the others sat at home and watched. If the Broncos were a joke,
then the others were a riot. I was proud of the Broncos all three times. Fact
is, the loser in the Super Bowl is a conference champion, not a joke.

Regarding the defense, I don't understand your logic. As I understand it,
you're saying that if the five or six players I mentioned are not scrubs, then
the five or six I didn't mention are scrubs? Whatever.

But I believe the SAM is a strength, not a weakness. Boss is a good player,
whether some people want to recognize it or not, and Winborn is a good
backup. And corner is fine, except they could use a 5th for depth.

I still believe the biggest weakness is at DC and the lack of a real motivator.

Of course, my opinions regarding personnel are just that: opinions. But the
fact that the Broncos of the '80s were winners and teams to be proud of is
not opinion. That is fact. The ones who were ashamed of them should have
left town. I don't have much patience with bandwagoners.

-----

cutthemdown
10-24-2008, 11:24 PM
When fans of teams that did not even get to the SB wanted to disparage the
Broncos who lost in it, I did not take any crap from them. The Broncos played
in it, and the others sat at home and watched. If the Broncos were a joke,
then the others were a riot. I was proud of the Broncos all three times. Fact
is, the loser in the Super Bowl is a conference champion, not a joke.

Regarding the defense, I don't understand your logic. As I understand it,
you're saying that if the five or six players I mentioned are not scrubs, then
the five or six I didn't mention are scrubs? Whatever.

But I believe the SAM is a strength, not a weakness. Boss is a good player,
whether some people want to recognize it or not, and Winborn is a good
backup. And corner is fine, except they could use a 5th for depth.

I still believe the biggest weakness is at DC and the lack of a real motivator.

Of course, my opinions regarding personnel are just that: opinions. But the
fact that the Broncos of the '80s were winners and teams to be proud of is
not opinion. That is fact. The ones who were ashamed of them should have
left town. I don't have much patience with bandwagoners.

-----

Boss a good player? nope just another bad move by Broncos. We need a SSL willing to take on blocks like Romo did for us. A guy who will punch a TE in the mouth and then do it again. Winborn is bkup and Boss is a pansy.

The way football works is you have to win Superbowls. If you don't hold Shanny in a higher esteem then Dan Reeves then that's your problem. In my book however you have to win Superbowls in the NFL. If you lose Superbowls that's the opposite of winning them and just because you made it is of little solace to the players or diehard fans.

Greybeard
10-25-2008, 12:01 AM
Boss a good player? nope just another bad move by Broncos. We need a SSL willing to take on blocks like Romo did for us. A guy who will punch a TE in the mouth and then do it again. Winborn is bkup and Boss is a pansy.

The way football works is you have to win Superbowls. If you don't hold Shanny in a higher esteem then Dan Reeves then that's your problem. In my book however you have to win Superbowls in the NFL. If you lose Superbowls that's the opposite of winning them and just because you made it is of little solace to the players or diehard fans.

No, it's that I made it that #2 is better than #30. I have never considered a
conference champion and Super Bowl team a joke, whether they won or not.
I was proud of my 80s teams, regardless of your asinine assumptions, such as
where I place Dan Reeves (where did you get that? Are you sober?).

If you want to find fault with me because I am proud of the Broncos, then
maybe you're rooting for the wrong team. Or maybe you're just a bandwagon
fan. I've been with the Broncos for 48 years now, so I don't apologize to
those who were riding around in their daddies' sacs when I became a Broncos
fan.

-----

cutthemdown
10-25-2008, 12:15 AM
No, it's that I made it that #2 is better than #30. I have never considered a
conference champion and Super Bowl team a joke, whether they won or not.
I was proud of my 80s teams, regardless of your asinine assumptions, such as
where I place Dan Reeves (where did you get that? Are you sober?).

If you want to find fault with me because I am proud of the Broncos, then
maybe you're rooting for the wrong team. Or maybe you're just a bandwagon
fan. I've been with the Broncos for 48 years now, so I don't apologize to
those who were riding around in their daddies' sacs when I became a Broncos
fan.

-----

It's how badly we lost that made it a joke until we beat Green Bay. You can say how you saw it but the fact is the fans of the other teams made fun of it all the time and it sucked. The sportcasters made fun of it and it sucked. Jay Leno, whoever was on any talk show made fun of the Broncos. Winning meant so much to the Broncos and we have Shanny to thank for that.

To treat him badly by saying he can't motivate is BS IMO. He's proven he can win, it's these players that haven't proven anything IMO.

Cutler playing like **** right now and thats why we are losing.

Bob's your Information Minister
10-25-2008, 12:40 AM
And of course...a horrible talent evaluator.

Greybeard
10-25-2008, 12:41 AM
It's how badly we lost that made it a joke until we beat Green Bay. You can say how you saw it but the fact is the fans of the other teams made fun of it all the time and it sucked. The sportcasters made fun of it and it sucked. Jay Leno, whoever was on any talk show made fun of the Broncos. Winning meant so much to the Broncos and we have Shanny to thank for that.

To treat him badly by saying he can't motivate is BS IMO. He's proven he can win, it's these players that haven't proven anything IMO.

Cutler playing like **** right now and thats why we are losing.

Nothing made it a joke, except in the minds of those maybe less secure with
themselves. How many teams won three conference championships and went to
three Super Bowls in one decade? It was bad to see the Broncos lose so
badly in those games, yes. But that can never change the fact that all but
two of the teams in the NFL were at home without a game to play, and the
Broncos were one of the two teams with a game to play.

Maybe some Broncos fans thought they should hang their heads over those
teams. Maybe some Broncos fans should have just gotten off the bandwagon
and stayed off. Because when someone thought they could laugh at my
Broncos, I was like, so where was your team on that day, A-hole?

Interestingly, most of the fans of those Super Bowl winners were pretty
gracious about it. It was the fans of the teams that never got there who
were the punks who laughed. I looked them in the face, and I looked proud.

And I never said Shanny can't motivate. I said the Broncos need more
motivators than they have. When Champ can say the attitude stinks, I can
say they need more motivators.

And it's ridiculous to single out Cutler or any other one player for our losses.
It wasn't he who failed to stop the other team's RB from getting 138 yards.
It wasn't he who fumbled twice in two successive running plays. It wasn't
he who had that face mask penalty when the Broncos had them stopped deep
in their own territory.

Give Cutler two interceptions. Give it to the rest of the team for their own
failures, not Cutler.

Let's all return to sanity about all this . . .

-----

richpjr
10-25-2008, 01:00 AM
Wasn't it Cowher that said after 10 years as a coach with the same team that the coach has trouble coming up with new ways to get the same message across and the players start to it out?

Has Shanahan been with the Broncos too long?

Pat Bowlen
10-25-2008, 09:10 AM
I think Shanny probably alienates a lot of players. Players are much bigger pussies than they used to be. In older generations if a player fumbles or screws up, he gets torn a new one on the sidelines and says "well shucks, I won't let that happen again". Nowadays if Shanny tears someone a new one it's more likely to hurt the players' feelings and leave him sulking, thus achieving the opposite of motivation.
Are you saying I should stop paying for the tampons?

BigPlayShay
10-25-2008, 09:15 AM
Wasn't it Cowher that said after 10 years as a coach with the same team that the coach has trouble coming up with new ways to get the same message across and the players start to it out?

Has Shanahan been with the Broncos too long?

Jeff Fisher disagrees with Cowher.

Archer81
10-25-2008, 09:32 AM
These threads are ridiculous.

:Broncos:

Popps
10-25-2008, 09:51 AM
Jeff Fisher disagrees with Cowher.

But, I think that's the point some people are making.

Jeff Fisher might be unique in his ability to continually motivate his players. Most coaches just don't last as long as he/Shanahan has.

My theory has long-been that Shanahan is great at motivating a certain TYPE of player. That player tends to be an older, savvier vet.... OR a rookie with the talents and mindset of an older, savvier vet.

For instance, I think Shanahan would have had a major blowout with Haynesworth already. I don't think the two would have been able to coexist. (Obviously just speculation and one example.) I don't think Shanahan does well with heady, young or struggling players. I think he expects perfection. He knows how to maximize the talents of guys who are total pros. But, I think he isolates guys who need help, and I think if you have too many guys like we have right now... teams might stop hearing your message.

It's part of what I said in the other thread. People can believe it or ignore it... but as SprintRightOption laid out in his posts, the team seems to get worse from game 1 until game 16 almost perennially. Theorize that however you'd like, but it's unlikely that's solely a talent issue over that long of a stretch.

I'm a big Shanahan supporter... always have been. I also think it's possible that sometimes things run their course. As I said at the beginning of this season, I think this team needs to get better (not worse) as the season goes on, or we may need to think about a new coaching direction.

crazyhorse
10-25-2008, 09:56 AM
Without Elway:

Shanahan < Schottenhiemer

Marty Schottenhiemer was a very good team builder. Not such a good play caller. Shanahan is the opposite. Overall Schottenhiemer was more consistant.

Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying Marty was a great coach. I'm just saying Shanny isn't either. Elway put him on the map. Since then he's shown he struggles to build a team.

Just my .02

Cito Pelon
10-25-2008, 11:14 AM
What made Broncos the butt of jokes was being so close and losing the Superbowl. Sure as fans we tried to gloss it up by saying we got to the Superbowl at least. At least we were number 2 four times. In the NFL if you don't win superbowls you don't matter. You don't notice the bills fans reveling in there 2nd place trophies do you? Why? because they don't matter and Bills are joke until they can win a superbowl.

As far as defense being full of scrubs you mentioned what 5-6 players? That mean we have 5-6 scrubs playing also so maybe you just can be more positive then me and see things as glass half full.

Hard for me because I sat at home saying Broncos don't have a SSL, MLB, SS, FS, 3rd corner that are worth playing and it has proven true. I'm mad as hell about the safety's and linebackers because its like the team didn't even try at those spots.

Like you pointed out the Dline with Moss and Thomas, Doom, may have some potential still but with a back end like the Broncos who would know.

It was always funny for me as a Bronco fan to reply to those jeering at the Broncos by saying "We have 4 AFC Title banners hanging at Mile High, how many do you have at your stadium?" It's plain goofy to me to not be proud of being AFC Champions. It's not 'second place', what it is is AFC Champions. If you have an AFC Championship banner hanging at your stadiium, that's something to be proud of, and especially if you (had) four of them hanging. Bills fans should be proud of their 4 AFC Title banners also. They won 4 in a row, didn't they? That's quite an accompishment.

I got furious with fans back in '97 when they said they'd rather lose the AFC Title game if it meant losing the SB. I've seldom heard something more indicative of a loser than that. It's weakness, pure and simple. Thank god the team wasn't full of players like that at the time.

NFLBRONCO
10-25-2008, 11:56 AM
Without Elway:

Shanahan < Schottenhiemer

Marty Schottenhiemer was a very good team builder. Not such a good play caller. Shanahan is the opposite. Overall Schottenhiemer was more consistant.

Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying Marty was a great coach. I'm just saying Shanny isn't either. Elway put him on the map. Since then he's shown he struggles to build a team.

Just my .02

I think Shanny is a great coach I just think he is bad finding talent esp on D.
Marty looked better or more consistant because he had way more talent on his teams but, failed when it mattered. If Denver hired Marty to build D and Shanny coach I'd be expecting a few more rings.

BigPlayShay
10-25-2008, 12:25 PM
It's about continuity in the staff, system, and with the core group of players. You have to have 2 of these 3 in order to be a championship team. Look what the Broncos did in 2005. They had continuity in the staff, with the O and D systems, and a core group of players that had been around a while. I can only think of a few teams in the past 10 years that have won the SuperBowl without at least 2 of these 3. The Rams, Ravens, Pats first SB team, and the Bucs. In all of these instances except for maybe the Pats 1st Superbowl team there was one side of the ball that was so far superior to the rest of the league and that is what got them a championship.

Circle Orange
10-25-2008, 12:48 PM
Wasn't it Cowher that said after 10 years as a coach with the same team that the coach has trouble coming up with new ways to get the same message across and the players start to it out?

Has Shanahan been with the Broncos too long?

That's the same logic that says every NFL player falls apart at 30.

Greybeard
10-25-2008, 02:09 PM
It was always funny for me as a Bronco fan to reply to those jeering at the Broncos by saying "We have 4 AFC Title banners hanging at Mile High, how many do you have at your stadium?" It's plain goofy to me to not be proud of being AFC Champions. It's not 'second place', what it is is AFC Champions. If you have an AFC Championship banner hanging at your stadiium, that's something to be proud of, and especially if you (had) four of them hanging. Bills fans should be proud of their 4 AFC Title banners also. They won 4 in a row, didn't they? That's quite an accompishment.

I got furious with fans back in '97 when they said they'd rather lose the AFC Title game if it meant losing the SB. I've seldom heard something more indicative of a loser than that. It's weakness, pure and simple. Thank god the team wasn't full of players like that at the time.

Actually, there should be six banners: 1977, 1986, 1987, 1989, 1997, 1998.
Now, there really aren't many teams with six banners. Moreover, the Broncos
have played in the postseason 17 times and in the conference championship
game eight times, having won six, of course. Their all-time W-L record is
382-339-10, and that includes the 14 losing seasons of the '60s and early '70s.

I'll admit that I was more a rabid fan than a proud one from 1960-1973. But
from 1973 on, the pride continued to build from year to year, especially after
the 1977 loss in the SB . . . after all, as I previously implied, how many other
teams were even there to lose in the SB that year?

Bronco Ball . . . be proud. 8')

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rugbythug
01-10-2011, 01:06 PM
I was thinking Back to My Post on this the Other Day.

Tim Tebow is an Alpha Male

colonelbeef
01-10-2011, 01:15 PM
Where do you guys come up with this crap?

HOF HC, period.

bendog
01-10-2011, 01:59 PM
No coach can motivate w/o leaders. Shanahan brought in McNabb, who isn't a bad person, but he's proven in a superbowl that he can't do the two minute very well, and asked him to run his playbook. Not a good move. And the defense imploded in spring training with John 'fat cancer' Henderson.

I think Shanny's a poor judge of talent and more importantly of character.

baja
01-10-2011, 02:24 PM
No coach can motivate w/o leaders. Shanahan brought in McNabb, who isn't a bad person, but he's proven in a superbowl that he can't do the two minute very well, and asked him to run his playbook. Not a good move. And the defense imploded in spring training with John 'fat cancer' Henderson.

I think Shanny's a poor judge of talent and <b>more importantly of character.

That part was/is his biggest nemesis. He never understood what signing a Dale Carter would do to a locker room especially after he cut Atwater because of money.

Kaylore
01-10-2011, 02:26 PM
Is it 2006?

uplink
01-10-2011, 03:41 PM
The Skins should tell Shanny the draft has been moved to the 1st week of May and send him on an all paid vacation to a tiny island in the pacific during the last week of April. This is the area where he completely sucks.