Shanahan calling out the defense...no turnovers...poor run D...should Slowik worry?

[lex]

He was really out with it from the top.

[ludo21]

Slowik better run, he is done if im shanny.

[Rohirrim]

What about the TOs, Mike?

[Rigs11]

fire shannahan.this is getting ridiculous. how many more defensive coordinators do we have to go through?

[lex]

The reason I ask is because someone recently posted that they had no intention to make a DC change...I think it was SoCalBronco who posted this item. I wonder if thats changed now...of course its not like you would be saying, yeah we're replacing Bob in 2 weeks either but still. They line was that they werent going to make a change.

[The MVPlaya]

When did he call out the defense?

[Dagmar]

He was really out with it from the top.

Quotes?
Links?

Your summary is pretty ****.

[bronco militia]

I'd fire the entire d coaching staff...this is two years in a row

[lex]

Quotes?
Links?

Your summary is pretty ****.

Go buy a tv and call your local cable company and ask for espn.

[NFLBRONCO]

When you keep a crappy DC do you expect great things with awful talent no you see what you saw tonight.

[lex]

When did he call out the defense?

It was the first thing out of his mouth when he took the podium...its not like anyone had to ask. He basically pointed out the flaws in the defense from the top regarding the lack of turnovers and inability to stop the run.

[The MVPlaya]

Go buy a tv and call your local cable company and ask for espn.

A lot of us turned that **** off because we didn't want to listen to all ownage we'd get from Emmitt and Steve.

[The MVPlaya]

It was the first thing out of his mouth when he took the podium...its not like anyone had to ask. He basically pointed out the flaws in the defense from the top regarding the lack of turnovers and inability to stop the run.

Can you quote what he said exactly? He just started rambling?

[summerdenver]

I really hope they take out his GM duties like they did in seatle. Seahawks became a better team after that.

[yavoon]

mike nolan is now available. just sayin...

[Popps]

Our defense was bad, but oddly... I think we showed a few good things, too.

Stopping the run is something we've done at times this year. But, I think our offense just put us in such a crap-hole early on, we didn't have much chance.

[lex]

Can you quote what he said exactly? He just started rambling?


I cant quote exactly but he started off by saying that the Patriots obviously played a lot better than we did...and then listed the items I mentioned about the defense...give or take.

[theAPAOps5]

The one who should worry is ****ing piece of **** Calvin Lowry. That guys is just terrible.

[The MVPlaya]

Our defense was bad, but oddly... I think we showed a few good things, too.

Stopping the run is something we've done at times this year. But, I think our offense just put us in such a crap-hole early on, we didn't have much chance.

Did you see Sammie Morris...SAMMIE MORRIS run?

We gave career days to 2 offensive players.

Were there positive things that HAPPENED? Yes, Champ Bailey being able to play defense. What's new?

Did we show IMPROVEMENT?
No, and that's the problem.

[extralife]

How is this a story. First off, the first thing he mentioned was the offensive turnovers, then the getting no turnovers. I don't even think he mentioned getting run all over. He didn't say anything of substance at all. Why would he, really? There are only two things you can do at a press conference after a game like this: you can go through the motions and get the hell out of there or you can give the "Larry Bird isn't walking through that door" meltdown speech.

[Dagmar]

Go buy a tv and call your local cable company and ask for espn.

Sorry, but I turned off as soon as they shook hands at the end.

[BroncoMan4ever]

We need to find a real sharpe defensive minded coach to come in and be our DC. we also need to give that guy, more than a season to turn it around.

[yerner]

Shanny should only blame himself. this ain't slowik's fault.

[yavoon]

How is this a story. First off, the first thing he mentioned was the offensive turnovers, then the getting no turnovers. I don't even think he mentioned getting run all over. He didn't say anything of substance at all. Why would he, really? There are only two things you can do at a press conference after a game like this: you can go through the motions and get the hell out of there or you can give the "Larry Bird isn't walking through that door" meltdown speech.

we might have needed the meltdown speech.

[Popps]

Our defense does suck though, don't get me wrong.

[~Crash~]

The reason I ask is because someone recently posted that they had no intention to make a DC change...I think it was SoCalBronco who posted this item. I wonder if thats changed now...of course its not like you would be saying, yeah we're replacing Bob in 2 weeks either but still. They line was that they werent going to make a change.

why replace the guy ? just put him back with the CB's. give another coach a chance with in .

[Popps]

Shanny should only blame himself. this ain't slowik's fault.

Who decided our off-season moves should be Boss Bailey, McCree and Niko Whothe****cares?

Whoever that guy is... fire him.

[lex]

I really hope they take out his GM duties like they did in seatle. Seahawks became a better team after that.

Bad idea. Denver according to many had a very good draft. Unfortunately they also had a lot of dead cap space theyre saddled with. There was only so much they could do and considering they drafted Clady, Royal, Williams, and Torain, all of which people seem to really like, its a little inconsitent to complain and then brag about the draft. Again, it was only one offseason.

[The MVPlaya]

Shanny should only blame himself. this ain't slowik's fault.

How is it not? Shanny gave Slowik an opportunity to take over the defense and implement a scheme.

Our defense has some talent, however the scheme is just THAT BAD. Any team running the scheme would suck.

Slowik is in control of the defense for the most part...how the hell is it not Slowik's fault?

[yerner]

[QUOTE=Popps;2134170]Who decided our off-season moves should be Boss Bailey, McCree and Niko Whothe****cares?

Whoever that guy is... fire him.[/QUOTE


Not trying to say Slowiks good, but he's only had one off season and 7 games or so to change things. I think a consistent philosophy is what's needed here not more change. I think these current problems are a result of shanny's attempt to change scheme's with Bates.

[~Crash~]

When you keep a crappy DC do you expect great things with awful talent no you see what you saw tonight.

true he does suck as a DC but I do like him as a CB Coach .

Here is the Deal Coach needs to stop litening to his gut and start seeing production ...yep it is called abdula and Lynch atleast these guys could tackle .

at this point who knows how long you give a DC to build the D back what a ****ing mess

[yerner]

How is it not? Shanny gave Slowik an opportunity to take over the defense and implement a scheme.

Our defense has some talent, however the scheme is just THAT BAD. Any team running the scheme would suck.

Slowik is in control of the defense for the most part...how the hell is it not Slowik's fault?

i guess i disagree that a coordinator can change things so soon with players he wasn't drafting. its not like slowik hasn't been around. he's a smart coach according to most the players, champ included.

[The MVPlaya]

i guess i disagree that a coordinator can change things so soon with players he wasn't drafting. its not like slowik hasn't been around. he's a smart coach according to most the players, champ included.

His scheme does not work and it's obvious.

Rewatching a lot plays over and over, there are so many holes. Our players are not put in the opportunity to force turnovers. Just take a look at how we blitz. Most of the time the o-line picks it up. We do not run any stunts.

We are giving up a RECORD passing % to the opposing QB...Slowik's scheme just sucks and it never has worked no matter where he has been.

[lex]

Who decided our off-season moves should be Boss Bailey, McCree and Niko Whothe****cares?

Whoever that guy is... fire him.[/QUOTE


Not trying to say Slowiks good, but he's only had one off season and 7 games or so to change things. I think a consistent philosophy is what's needed here not more change. I think these current problems are a result of shanny's attempt to change scheme's with Bates.

Consistent only if the guy is good, which theres no reason to make that assumption about Slowik...and btw, he has had 7 games this season in addition to the games he took over last season.

[NFLBRONCO]

true he does suck as a DC but I do like him as a CB Coach .

Here is the Deal Coach needs to stop litening to his gut and start seeing production ...yep it is called abdula and Lynch atleast these guys could tackle .

at this point who knows how long you give a DC to build the D back what a ****ing mess

I know we need more talent but, we also need a DC that can get more out of his players. This D is a mess and imo Denver needs to find a DC who can stay a few years its surely not this guy.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Maybe the new DC won't fart around with some BS notion of swapping out a 4-3 and 3-4 looks or have his CBs consistently peek into the backfield while playing 10 yards off the ball.

[The MVPlaya]

You watch the games, and the plays.

You look at where we are getting pressure and if we have any players in the vicinity of ball carrier or receiver. How many times does a receiver catch it being wide open with no one within 7-10 yards? I'm not talking about today.

We do not EVER blow up any plays in the backfield either...that tells you we are playing conservative and not letting our players make plays.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

We do not EVER blow up any plays in the backfield either...that tells you we are playing conservative and not letting our players make plays.


They've blown up a few. How do I know? I see Nate Webster or Jamie Winborn celebrating the fact.

Jesus, I can't believe this team is fielding both Nate Webster and Jamie Winborn.

[~Crash~]

[QUOTE=Popps;2134170]Who decided our off-season moves should be Boss Bailey, McCree and Niko Whothe****cares?

Whoever that guy is... fire him.[/QUOTE/]

You Know popps Coach takes a lot of flack for believing in his coaches and letting them pick a lot of there players they want . but that is not so bad of a thing . but GM Coach needs to be Coach and leave the GM job because some times you don't go for the win this year instead you build for a couple years down the road .

It might be time for change just not the change people want or need . hope I am wrong but coach seems not able to cope with personnel .

[yerner]

I guess we'll have to disagree. I think coordinators are only as talented as the players they have consistently beating there matchups. Slowik is actually going out of his normal schemes to attempt to create better oppritunities. He's trying everything right? These players aren't performing. There is no revolutionary scheme thats going to change this suckfest. Name me one other time a coordinator has been fired midseason and all of a sudden the defense is solid?

[extralife]

If he was "trying everything" we might have people in our secondary actually cover a receiver now and again instead of wait for them to make the catch and then tackle them ten yards down the field while Slowik high fives himself for not giving up a TD every play.

[lazarus4444]

We need somebody in the front office who can evaluate defensive talent, nuff said.

[The MVPlaya]

They've blown up a few. How do I know? I see Nate Webster or Jamie Winborn celebrating the fact.

Jesus, I can't believe this team is fielding both Nate Webster and Jamie Winborn.

Not in the actual backfield. They've held them at the line of scrimmage...when I mean backfield, take a look back at the season we made the AFC championship game.

We would blow up plays at the moment the QB handed off the ball to the RB, 3-5 yards back...What do you know? Champ was having a career season too...

[Jekyll15Hyde]

Our defense was bad, but oddly... I think we showed a few good things, too.

On the surface, you wouldnt think so... But I agree. There just wasnt any consistency.

How in the world did the O go from great to average or worse?

[summerdenver]

Bad idea. Denver according to many had a very good draft. Unfortunately they also had a lot of dead cap space theyre saddled with. There was only so much they could do and considering they drafted Clady, Royal, Williams, and Torain, all of which people seem to really like, its a little inconsitent to complain and then brag about the draft. Again, it was only one offseason.

Thats a fair point and he did a good job with offensive players. At the same time we have missed on all the defensive picks. I mean DJ is decent but not a game changer - on the first big run of Morris which set the tone for the day DJ was the guy who missed the tackle.

I also think his status as coach/gm for life is not good for the team. Take away some of his powers and make him concentrate on coaching. When they did it to Holmgreen - both the coaching and drafting got better in seattle. If you look back thats when they started winning the division.

[The MVPlaya]

I guess we'll have to disagree. I think coordinators are only as talented as the players they have consistently beating there matchups. Slowik is actually going out of his normal schemes to attempt to create better oppritunities. He's trying everything right? These players aren't performing. There is no revolutionary scheme thats going to change this suckfest. Name me one other time a coordinator has been fired midseason and all of a sudden the defense is solid?

Our defense has some talent. He is not going out of his scheme at all... how did you evaluate this?

[yerner]

If he was "trying everything" we might have people in our secondary actually cover a receiver now and again instead of wait for them to make the catch and then tackle them ten yards down the field while Slowik high fives himself for not giving up a TD every play.

I don't follow the logic here. My point is that he's tried to create better matchups everyway he can. Multiple schemes, formations, whatever you want to call them. None of them are working. What would a new coordinator do that would be so different? Do you really think a different pep talk is going to change this bad of a unit. I guess that's what I'm asking/saying.

[extralife]

You don't follow the logic? What logic?

Take a defensive back

Put him on a receiver

???

Profit

There you go, there's something he "hasn't tried." Give me a call Shanny, I'll be here all day.

[yerner]

Our defense has some talent. He is not going out of his scheme at all... how did you evaluate this?

I assumed the 3-4 hybrid is a decision he would normally not want to make if he had the personnel to have guys win the normal matchups. What do you think should be in order?

[~Crash~]

His scheme does not work and it's obvious.

Rewatching a lot plays over and over, there are so many holes. Our players are not put in the opportunity to force turnovers. Just take a look at how we blitz. Most of the time the o-line picks it up. We do not run any stunts.

We are giving up a RECORD passing % to the opposing QB...Slowik's scheme just sucks and it never has worked no matter where he has been.

His Scheme might work great for rocket scientist the problem is we are working with some guys that took PE as a major not because they had a clue ....

the problem is not scheme it is tackling these guys have no clue . it has been going on ten + years that is on the coaching staff aqnd not wanting player hurt . lets see how has that worked out ?

You need a team that practices in pads to win unless you are playing like a SB team ...the deal is people talk crap and say oakland is the faiders I think we must of took lessons

[~Crash~]

This team has no spine

[yerner]

You don't follow the logic? What logic?

Take a defensive back

Put him on a receiver

???

Profit

There you go, there's something he "hasn't tried." Give me a call Shanny, I'll be here all day.

Dude, don't be a jerk. I asked for an explanation. You're saying he is telling guys to not cover wrs? okay i guess that could be it. i'm sticking with the guys are not getting the job done covering them.

[~Crash~]

Thye D side is a joke . i would curse but whats the use

[extralife]

Dude, don't be a jerk. I asked for an explanation. You're saying he is telling guys to not cover wrs? okay i guess that could be it. i'm sticking with the guys are not getting the job done covering them.

You know, there are generally two broad types of coverages. The first one is man to man, the second one is zone. I'll let you try to guess which one we use near exclusively and how well that's worked out for us. And, of course, these zones (oops, I spoiled it!) start ten yards down the field. Below that and, ehhhh, it's not much damage, we should be good! You can't pussyfoot your way to wins.

[NFLBRONCO]

This is the Denver Nuggets D

[~Crash~]

the really crazy part is we are in first pace by a game and a half that is ****ed up

[NFLBRONCO]

the really crazy part is we are in first pace by a game and a half that is ****ed up

Not for long

We are playing like a 2-5 team with a 4-3 record

Is it time we consider bringing in a guy like Marty S to be a consultant for the D and find better more physical players we need someone that really knows D talent.

[The MVPlaya]

I assumed the 3-4 hybrid is a decision he would normally not want to make if he had the personnel to have guys win the normal matchups. What do you think should be in order?

Running 3-4 hybrid was due to their belief in having a lot of talent at LB and wanting to have more of them out there.

I think he should try using DB's to pass cover. I mean, it would be a start.

At ALL times we never have more than 2 DB's on the field. If there are 4 or 5 WR's it does not matter.

We use our LB's to cover, how the **** do you expect to get INT's? Combine that with our Safties... = scheme FAILED.

[Br0nc0Buster]

This team has no spine

I watched the Rams game and we are the opposite of the Rams, in terms of directions these teams are going.

Rams would make a mistake, well they would suck it up and make a great play to make up for it.
We make a mistake, and we follow that up with another one, and another one.

This team is a cluster**** right now, and our "high powered" offense really hasnt dont sh!t the past 4 weeks

[yerner]

Running 3-4 hybrid was due to their belief in having a lot of talent at LB and wanting to have more of them out there.

I think he should try using DB's to pass cover. I mean, it would be a start.

At ALL times we never have more than 2 DB's on the field. If there are 4 or 5 WR's it does not matter.

We use our LB's to cover, how the **** do you expect to get INT's? Combine that with our Safties... = scheme FAILED.

yeah, i see you're point. but i've thought the 3-4 switch is more out of desperation than talent no matter what they say to the media. And as far as the db's go, isn't this a more recent thing. Last year there was much more man coverage.

[The MVPlaya]

yeah, i see you're point. but i've thought the 3-4 switch is more out of desperation than talent no matter what they say to the media. And as far as the db's go, isn't this a more recent thing. Last year there was much more man coverage.

Slowik fully implemented his "scheme" this off season.

[BroncoMan4ever]

i am sorry but we have talent on the field. we're not world beaters but we have the talent to be a decent defense. we need a coach to put it together.
hell a good DC could have us playing decent defense by week 12. all we need to do is work on tackling drills, stop having our DB's 10-15 yards off the receiver and get them right in the receivers face, knocking them off their routes early, pissing them off taking them out of their game, change out our safeties with 2 guys who can tackle and the defense looks a ton better

[TheChamp24]

A good DC could make our defense average. Playcalling, schemes, techniques, I'd like to see something done because we are doing crap out there and it is sickening to see.
And I am not going to blame this on solely a lack of defensive talent.

[The MVPlaya]

Slowik should worry.

Right now Mike and Pat are thinking, how do we get to the SB THIS SEASON?

Is it with Slowik?

NOPE.

[lex]

A good DC could make our defense average. Playcalling, schemes, techniques, I'd like to see something done because we are doing crap out there and it is sickening to see.
And I am not going to blame this on solely a lack of defensive talent.

We need a competent DC because it can help us from overdrafting and overpaying for defense...among other things. Right now it looks like if we spent every pick for the next three years on defensive players, it may not help us.

[Paladin]

Thjey can improve the D by geting someone to play CB and getting rid of Bly. Midget just waves at the RBs and WRs going by. This is not the team I had thoght they were. Not at all.

What a bunch of numbnuts on D out there. And you'd think they could hold on to the GD ball!.....

[bpc]

I think we need to scrap the defense. Scheme, coach, a lot of the players.

I'm just throwing this out there but I like the fire and brimstone coaches. The one's that really get up in your ass with you screw up your assignment, not these guys embrace the player, give them kind words in their ears and a pat on their butt.

We're losing and we're losing bad. It's not all the defenses fault but jesus christ, when you Matt CASSELL put up a rating of 139 on you, that's unheard of. When you let career backup SAMMY MORRIS run over you to the tune of 130 yds by halftime, WTF? This isn't TD, its SAMMMMMMMY F'N MORRIS.

Pick what scheme we want to run, find the best screaming coach who runs it. Bring them in here.

Hell, bring Gunther when he gets released in a few weeks. Some of these players need to have a fire lit under their ass. Moss, Crowder, DJ, and Bly are the first one's in my mind. Time to take the diapers off and do something. It's unfair to just blindly throw DJ in there because he's had production HOWEVER I consider him our leader now. And in the time he has been the GUY (the last two seasons) we've had some of the worst run and pass defenses i've ever seen in Denver. Take that crap personally DJ. Get it going.

[~Crash~]

I think we need to scrap the defense. Scheme, coach, a lot of the players.

I'm just throwing this out there but I like the fire and brimstone coaches. The one's that really get up in your ass with you screw up your assignment, not these guys embrace the player, give them kind words in their ears and a pat on their butt.

We're losing and we're losing bad. It's not all the defenses fault but jesus christ, when you Matt CASSELL put up a rating of 139 on you, that's unheard of. When you let career backup SAMMY MORRIS run over you to the tune of 130 yds by halftime, WTF? This isn't TD, its SAMMMMMMMY F'N MORRIS.

Pick what scheme we want to run, find the best screaming coach who runs it. Bring them in here.

Hell, bring Gunther when he gets released in a few weeks. Some of these players need to have a fire lit under their ass. Moss, Crowder, DJ, and Bly are the first one's in my mind. Time to take the diapers off and do something. It's unfair to just blindly throw DJ in there because he's had production HOWEVER I consider him our leader now. And in the time he has been the GUY (the last two seasons) we've had some of the worst run and pass defenses i've ever seen in Denver. Take that crap personally DJ. Get it going.


At this point I think slowik is a gret guy that is meant for CB's getting betterat there jobs ...


Marty Schottenheimer Should be called this morningand offered big money not because he can coach but because he can make d side player be the best they can be with fire and brim stones

[Beantown Bronco]

Has there ever been another instance where a team had 5 sacks in a half and found themselves being outscored 20-0?

[Popps]

Has there ever been another instance where a team had 5 sacks in a half and found themselves being outscored 20-0?

We actually held the first two turnover drives to FGs, too. Our offense just kept handing them the ball back.

You won't hear me defend this defense much, but they fought an uphill battle right out of the gate.

[footstepsfrom#27]

fire shannahan.this is getting ridiculous. how many more defensive coordinators do we have to go through?
I'm getting really tired of Mike Shanahan blaming his DC for things. It's about time he looked in the mirror and stepped up to the plate to take responsibility for his own failings. He hires these guys and their systems...and he goes through them more often than just about any head coach in the NFL because he has no freaking clue how to put a defense on the field. either in terms of talent or coaching philosophy.

As good as he is with offensive systems...he's just that bad with defense and his record since the '90's reflects this as the singular largest reason for our failures. Last year he couldn't even commit to the guy he hired for an entire season. It's a joke. I actually believe this team would be a serious playolff contender if we just had the Raiders defensive instead of ours. The current talent on that side of the ball is the worst it's been since the Lou Saban era and that is not an exageration. Add to that the fact that these players have zero continuity in coaching, terminology, philosophy and system. Nobody could succeed in this environment. We could ressurect Vince Lombardi and he'd fail as well. Shanahan is a total screw up when it comes to defense. It's keeping us from winning like we should be. How absurd is it that a team with Champ Bailey and Dre Bly on the corners is last in the NFL in pass defense? That's simply inexcusable.

Having said all this...if we could hang onto the freaking ball it might help just a bit. This team looks like it's mailing it in.

[barryr]

I'm tired of the excuses for the defense. They stink game after game. The one play that summed it up for me was Welker in motion and NOBODY even covers him so talk about easy completion. The defense is lost, they don't tackle, they don't cover, they don't force turnovers, and as I mentioned, look lost most of the time. If you have to score 30 points against good team most of the time to even have a shot to win, you know something is wrong. They can't draft DL and develop them to save their lives.

[WolfpackGuy]

Why doesn't he call out the offense? WTF have they done recently besides turn it over 12 times? Give the worst defense in the league 12 more possessions to defend. Yeah, that's a real bright idea.

[RaiderH8r]

I'm just going to let this gem from Major League 2 sum it up for me, "You rotten bums! You overpaid weenies! Vile thing, you make my butt sting! I *detest* you! You're all garbage! All of ya! Back up the truck! Back it up!"

This squad is dogsh!t and doesn't deserve my time on Sundays. When they start caring about Bronco football again I'll start caring about Bronco football again.