McCain Foments Violence Against Obama

[Rohirrim]

This is the text of the message McCain is sending all over America:

'Hello. I'm calling for John McCain and the RNC because you need to know that Barack Obama has worked closely with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, whose organization bombed the U.S. capitol, the Pentagon, a judge's home and killed Americans. And Democrats will enact an extreme leftist agenda if they take control of Washington. Barack Obama and his Democratic allies lack the judgment to lead our country.'

The call ends with the legally required disclosure, informing the listener that the call was paid for by McCain-Palin 2008 and the Republican National Committee."

Of course, to the uneducated individual what this message says is "A terrorist is about to take over the White House and must be stopped." This is a level of incendiary speech I have never heard from any campaign, ever. This goes beyond all bounds. In court, this could be called incitement. I guarantee you, the message of the McCain campaign will lead to violence.

[Paladin]

I read that elsewhere on these pages, but it is still a downer. I agree. I fear for this country. There are a few McVeighs and Nichols out there in gagaland.....

I wonder if the the Courts would stop this if a suit ere brought by Obama;s campagin......

[Play2win]

This is the text of the message McCain is sending all over America:

'Hello. I'm calling for John McCain and the RNC because you need to know that Barack Obama has worked closely with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, whose organization bombed the U.S. capitol, the Pentagon, a judge's home and killed Americans. And Democrats will enact an extreme leftist agenda if they take control of Washington. Barack Obama and his Democratic allies lack the judgment to lead our country.'

The call ends with the legally required disclosure, informing the listener that the call was paid for by McCain-Palin 2008 and the Republican National Committee."

Of course, to the uneducated individual what this message says is "A terrorist is about to take over the White House and must be stopped." This is a level of incendiary speech I have never heard from any campaign, ever. This goes beyond all bounds. In court, this could be called incitement. I guarantee you, the message of the McCain campaign will lead to violence.

One would think, that, if what was described above is actually the case, it could definitely be prosecutable legally.

[TailgateNut]

One would think, that, if what was described above is actually the case, it could definitely be prosecutable legally.

I heard the it (verbatim) on the radio this morning. One of the listeners had forwarded his VM recording to the studio.

McCain and Palin are white trash scum, IMO!

[Rohirrim]

I have never heard such a stink of hypocrisy. At the debates what did McCain hammer on? He repudiates every one of these despicable attacks. What does he do the next day? Sends out this phone message.

[Northman]

I dont buy that McCain is advocating violence be taken on Obama. Thats a far stretch here. But, considering that Obama may indeed become the first black president of the united states i wouldnt doubt that he may become a target for white supremist or anti-muslim extremist. But i dont see anywhere in that message advocating that someone kill Obama.

[Rohirrim]

I dont buy that McCain is advocating violence be taken on Obama. Thats a far stretch here. But, considering that Obama may indeed become the first black president of the united states i wouldnt doubt that he may become a target for white supremist or anti-muslim extremist. But i dont see anywhere in that message advocating that someone kill Obama.

I think that is highly naive of you. Islamic terrorists have been the number one enemy of the American people for years. What this call does is lump Obama in with those anti-American killers. What do think the reaction of many out on the fringe will be to this effort? I wouldn't be surprised at all if some nutjob shows up at an Obama rally within the next couple of weeks and opens fire. Don't forget, we had two different men in the last few months open fire on "liberals." Both were stoked up by this exact type of language.

[Spider]

I dont buy that McCain is advocating violence be taken on Obama. Thats a far stretch here. But, considering that Obama may indeed become the first black president of the united states i wouldnt doubt that he may become a target for white supremist or anti-muslim extremist. But i dont see anywhere in that message advocating that someone kill Obama.

sure he is , it isnt direct , but it is overt , subliminal, kind of way .....

[Northman]

Nah, doesnt sound like it too me. Sounds like he is just sounding the alarm for people to get out and vote and if you dont believe in Obama and what he stands for the time is now to make sure your vote counts. McCain is becoming more vocal now as it seems very likely that he will lose to Obama in this election. But if any attacks happen on Obama it wont be because of this phone call. Thats just silly. Obama has a target on his back because of his color more than anything else. If he wins History will be made and there are some out there who cant live with that thought.

[Spider]

Nah, doesnt sound like it too me. Sounds like he is just sounding the alarm for people to get out and vote and if you dont believe in Obama and what he stands for the time is now to make sure your vote counts. McCain is becoming more vocal now as it seems very likely that he will lose to Obama in this election. But if any attacks happen on Obama it wont be because of this phone call. Thats just silly. Obama has a target on his back because of his color more than anything else. If he wins History will be made and there are some out there who cant live with that thought.

to some , but some whacked out radical like the idiot a while back that went into a church and started shooting people cause it was a liberal church , or the other Idiot http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/28/church-shooting-police-find-manifesto-suspects-car/

[Rohirrim]

Nah, doesnt sound like it too me. Sounds like he is just sounding the alarm for people to get out and vote and if you dont believe in Obama and what he stands for the time is now to make sure your vote counts. McCain is becoming more vocal now as it seems very likely that he will lose to Obama in this election. But if any attacks happen on Obama it wont be because of this phone call. Thats just silly. Obama has a target on his back because of his color more than anything else. If he wins History will be made and there are some out there who cant live with that thought.

Actually, these type of dirty tricks are designed to suppress the vote, as Obama's letter to Mukasey points out. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=72902

[Paladin]

Anubis, you write BS there......

[Northman]

to some , but some whacked out radical like the idiot a while back that went into a church and started shooting people cause it was a liberal church , or the other Idiot http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/28/church-shooting-police-find-manifesto-suspects-car/

Whack jobs are always going to be there man. They dont need a phone message from McCain to get motivation.

[Northman]

Anubis, you write BS there......

Uh, ok. Thanks.

[Spider]

Whack jobs are always going to be there man. They dont need a phone message from McCain to get motivation.

no but the phone calls dont help ..... Like me tonight , it wouldnt take much to set me off , I am missing my family bad , I am stuck in Glade Springs VA until monday ,and some bastard in Canton Ohio is trying to **** me out of a 1,000 bucks ......

[Spider]

I go through hell out here , near misses , D.O.T. the highway patrol , everyone trying to get every cent out of me they can , Wanting to be with my family , and then some azzhole is trying to screw me out of a thousand bucks .... you damn right I am boarder line nuts

[Northman]

no but the phone calls dont help ..... Like me tonight , it wouldnt take much to set me off , I am missing my family bad , I am stuck in Glade Springs VA until monday ,and some bastard in Canton Ohio is trying to **** me out of a 1,000 bucks ......

Yea, but your a angry guy anyway. You would probably beat that guy's ass over 10 bucks. Hilarious!

[Spider]

Yea, but your a angry guy anyway. You would probably beat that guy's ass over 10 bucks. Hilarious!

;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Whack jobs are always going to be there man. They dont need a phone message from McCain to get motivation.

You're saying messages like these don't spur the whack jobs on or get them worked up?

You're kidding, right? ???

That's like saying it's OK to dump gasoline on a fire because it was already burning.

[ZONA]

It's so simple and obvious what is going on here. I don't think McCain wants anything bad to happen to Obama but he will pull out every dirty trick in the bag in order to try and stop this landslide. I think he would even go as far to slap Obama's kids if it meant he could get in the White House. Sure, he would apologize later but the point is he is going ALL IN right now just to see if he can get back a few states.

The problem is, while there are plenty of stupid Americans left, many of us have grown wise to these BS tactics by the GOP and it's not going to work. The harder McCain tries, the larger the lead seems to be getting. That little snowball rolling down the hill has now become much larger and I'm afraid it's just too late to stop it now. Obama is gonna roll McCain. Now if only they Dems could get 60 seats in the Senate, things will turn around for the good.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

McCain and Palin are white trash scum, IMO!

QFT.

These people are about as vile and filthy as it gets.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Even if McCain doesn't want anything bad to happen to Obama, surely he's smart enough to realize that this sort of talk can incite the McVeigh-type nutjobs to violence?

Witness the cries of "kill him" at White Trash Barbie's rallies.

[Northman]

You're saying messages like these don't spur the whack jobs on or get them worked up?

You're kidding, right? ???

That's like saying it's OK to dump gasoline on a fire because it was already burning.


I never said that, but to try and throw out the assumption that McCain WANTS someone to kill Obama is ludicrous and reaching. Whackjobs are going to do what they plan to do with or without any comments from McCain. You guys act like there arent already people who hate or want to kill Obama just because of his color. Trust me, there will be an attack on Obama at some point if he is elected president. But it wont be over this phone message i can guarantee you that. Its not rocket science to understand that some small groups or individuals are not ready for a black president. And now you add that he has muslim ties to it? The motivation for those whackjobs is already there.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I never said that, but to try and throw out the assumption that McCain WANTS someone to kill Obama is ludicrous and reaching. Whackjobs are going to do what they plan to do with or without any comments from McCain. You guys act like there arent already people who hate or want to kill Obama just because of his color. Trust me, there will be an attack on Obama at some point if he is elected president. But it wont be over this phone message i can guarantee you that. Its not rocket science to understand that some small groups or individuals are not ready for a black president. And now you add that he has muslim ties to it? The motivation for those whackjobs is already there.

I didn't say McCain wanted anything bad to happen to Obama.

What I said was that McCain should have enough sense to understand that this kind of talk can incite the McVeigh-type nuts to violence.

And to simply argue that the "motivation is already there" does not justify fanning the flames as McCain and his pet rat are doing here.

[Northman]

I didn't say McCain wanted anything bad to happen to Obama.

What I said was that McCain should have enough sense to understand that this kind of talk can incite the McVeigh-type nuts to violence.

And to simply argue that the "motivation is already there" does not justify fanning the flames as McCain and his pet rat are doing here.


Fair enough, i dont see it as anything like that but i understand your point.

[Traveler]

Whack jobs are always going to be there man. They dont need a phone message from McCain to get motivation.

That might be true. But the campaign is creating the evironment for those whackos to think it's okay to unleash and act on their prejudices by demonizing Obama.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I really do fear for his safety.

It's been many years since MLK and JFK, and sometimes it's easy to feel a false sense of security, e.g., to believe we're beyond that sort of thing as a society.

However, judging from the behavior of hate-filled Nazis at Palin's rallies, the threats posed by the enemies of freedom, social progress, and human evolution still persist.

[Northman]

However, judging from the behavior of hate-filled Nazis at Palin's rallies, the threats posed by the enemies of freedom, social progress, and human evolution still persist.

Indeed they do. Had Jackson even sniffed the kind of success that Obama has had he may of been the ginnea pig. But, we are swimming into unfamiliar territory this year so i hope our progress has moved beyond that. But, somehow i just dont see it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Indeed they do. Had Jackson even sniffed the kind of success that Obama has had he may of been the ginnea pig. But, we are swimming into unfamiliar territory this year so i hope our progress has moved beyond that. But, somehow i just dont see it.

Yep.

You have to figure that a lot of knuckle draggers in Jim Crow country are going to melt down when the prospect of a president who is both a Democrat and an African American finally sinks in.

[snowspot66]

I hope the Secret Service puts body armor on him. These last few weeks can't go fast enough. Then he can hide away in a bunker until inauguration.

[Paladin]

I think he will go to an island in the Carib for a little R&R, and then find a place to hide out and take resumes.

As a matter of fact, I also believe he will nominate at lest one Repugnican for a Cabinet position: Luger for Sec of State. Maybe Palin for Court Jester and Chief Pizza Orderer.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

<center> http://www.bartcop.com/mccain-kill-him.jpg
</center>

[Rohirrim]

It appears the attacks have already started.

Earlier Friday, ACORN told McClatchy that one of its senior staffers in Cleveland had received a death threat and that its Boston and Seattle offices had been vandalized sometime Thursday, reflecting the mounting tensions over the group's role in registering 1.3 million mostly poor and minority Americans to vote.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/730941.html

[Paladin]

Here we go.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It appears the attacks have already started.

Earlier Friday, ACORN told McClatchy that one of its senior staffers in Cleveland had received a death threat and that its Boston and Seattle offices had been vandalized sometime Thursday, reflecting the mounting tensions over the group's role in registering 1.3 million mostly poor and minority Americans to vote.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/730941.html

No surprise there, eh?

To the rethugs, an organization that tries to register low-income people and minorities to vote is worse than al Qaeda.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

ABQ: Vandals tag Obama signs with swastikas

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http://kob.com/kobtvimages/obama_swastika_sign.jpg

Residents in southeast Albuquerque are calling it "racism of the worst kind" after several Barack Obama campaign signs were spray painted with swastikas.

Neighbors say the vandalism occurred in broad daylight near Comanche and Eubank on Thursday.

Tom and Jeanne Elmhorst's Barack Obama signs were spray-painted with swastikas around noon. But the Elmhorst's signs weren't the only ones that vandals tagged.

A couple blocks away, Joe Mancuso's signs were tagged too.

"It scares me, but it's also wrong," he said. "I believe it's racism in its worst form."

Mancuso's neighbors agree and posted a note for the vandals to see. It says, "To the chicken who takes Obama signs, I just donated $50 in your honor to the Obama campaign."
....
http://kob.com/article/stories/S621974.shtml?cat=504
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[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Rosa Brooks: Thinking conservatives: MIAs of the GOP; Paranoid, rage-driven, xenophobic nuts are taking over the Republican Party. 10/17 (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brooks16-2008oct16,0,4287459.column)

[SJ Bronco]

In fremont, Ca..( an extremely liberal city) All the Obama posters in the city were skillfully edited to say "Osama". People are insane. I don't think he'll make it to his second term let alone the election. The repubs are good at killing someone and pinning it on some stooge. (See kennedy). The thing that scares me, there are a lot more wakkos out to get Obama then there has been any figure in history. The right is foaming at the mouth about the fact that he will win this thing.

[Paladin]

Rosa Brooks: Thinking conservatives: MIAs of the GOP; Paranoid, rage-driven, xenophobic nuts are taking over the Republican Party. 10/17 (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brooks16-2008oct16,0,4287459.column)

She whacked them, didn't she? Sounds like she wants to vote for Obama....

I agree that Obama's life could be in danger, but I have to believe the Secret Service is on it. I would worry for Michelle, the kids and the grandmother. Somehow it all seems surreal....

[Odysseus]

In fremont, Ca..( an extremely liberal city) All the Obama posters in the city were skillfully edited to say "Osama". People are insane. I don't think he'll make it to his second term let alone the election. The repubs are good at killing someone and pinning it on some stooge. (See kennedy). The thing that scares me, there are a lot more wakkos out to get Obama then there has been any figure in history. The right is foaming at the mouth about the fact that he will win this thing.

Bush can destroy this country without fear of anything happening to him but this poor man cannot even get elected without death threats? Think about that for a little bit. The kind of bitter cynicism and skepticism Obama has faced over these past 18 months. When was the last time a Presidential candidate had to worry about death threats? When? We wonder if there is racism in our country? I guess it's like our economy. It's in our heads.

[SJ Bronco]

Bush can destroy this country without fear of anything happening to him but this poor man cannot even get elected without death threats? Think about that for a little bit. The kind of bitter cynicism and skepticism Obama has faced over these past 18 months. When was the last time a Presidential candidate had to worry about death threats? When? We wonder if there is racism in our country? I guess it's like our economy. It's in our heads.

Seriously, and the scary part is, this is for real. All the lofty ideals we as Americans are always spouting, but look at the reality of the situation. We are self destructing and the rest of the world is watching it all unfold live on TV.

I wonder if McCain has thought about his legacy. This election is historic, and he won't be able to be forgotten when this is over like the runner up normally is. The history books won't be kind to him and Palin. I think they will be seen a lot like George Wallace.

[Odysseus]

Seriously, and the scary part is, this is for real. All the lofty ideals we as Americans are always spouting, but look at the reality of the situation. We are self destructing and the rest of the world is watching it all unfold live on TV.

I wonder if McCain has thought about his legacy. This election is historic, and he won't be able to be forgotten when this is over like the runner up normally is. The history books won't be kind to him and Palin. I think they will be seen a lot like George Wallace.

George Wallace was worst by a long shot but the type of serious hard boiled hatred that is fermenting could create some pretty nasty results in the years to come. Republicans were violently bitter after Nixon's impeachment.

Ronald Reagan saved the GOP being a reckless cowboy while Bush nearly destroys the entire country being a reckless cowboy. Reagan was acting. Bush thought all of it was true. Ronald Reagan popularized trickle down economics. Bush converted that to flush down economics.

McCain is copying Bush. Does anybody get where I am going with this? Bush retreads are in McCain's camp helping him make decisions, strategize but then we cannot say he's just like Bush. He's right. He is not George Bush. He's much worst! He was copying Obama during the campaign he was so lost.

[baja]

I think that is highly naive of you. Islamic terrorists have been the number one enemy of the American people for years. What this call does is lump Obama in with those anti-American killers. What do think the reaction of many out on the fringe will be to this effort? I wouldn't be surprised at all if some nutjob shows up at an Obama rally within the next couple of weeks and opens fire. Don't forget, we had two different men in the last few months open fire on "liberals." Both were stoked up by this exact type of language.

As much as I dislike McCain the man I doubt he willfully would want harm to come to Obama. This is a desperate attempt by a desperate party to win the white house, you are right though it does not change the risk level of some nut job acting on the information.

[Rohirrim]

Kristol-nacht. ;D

[USAFBronco]

This is semi unrelated but the more I learn about McCain the more I despise him, not just as a candidate, but as a person...
He's a scumbag

[Paladin]

The de-Americanization of Obama continues. On "Hardball". Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R, Minn 6th Dist.) claimed that there were members of the House who were liberal and therefore un-American. She implied that anyone who is liberal is un-American. What a freaking nutjob. Minnesota has a long list of people who served this country honorably and she just sh^tcanned them. I don't know how to transfer the video but it was on the MSNBC front page.

IU don't think people have a clue about what a "liberal" is. Most people visualize the Chicago Seven and think they and the hippies of the 60's are the examples of all liberals out there. I like JFK's definition:

"...if by a liberal they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, their civil liberties... if that is what they mean by a "liberal" then I am proud to be a liberal." ~ John F. Kennedy

I do believe that the so called conservatives have good ideas. But these also must be tempered with compromise to the needs of the population, not just the businesses and corporations. The last 8 years have not been a great time for this country because the neocons and crooks forgot about other Americans. Maybe not this year........

[Rohirrim]

How close did Chris get to having Bachmann suggest that a committee be established in the House to investigate if some members are no pro-American, or are, in fact, "un-American?"

We could call it the House UnAmerican Activities Committee? ;D

I think, buried in the Right's rhetoric, has always been the assumption that if you don't agree with their view of what America means, then you are guilty of, at the minimum, being unAmerican, if not an out-and-out traitor. They also believe if you are not Christian, you are not American. If you don't believe in supply side economics, you are not a good American. Really, Buckley was right about what is happening in the GOP now; The tent is getting much smaller.

[Traveler]

How close did Chris get to having Bachmann suggest that a committee be established in the House to investigate if some members are no pro-American, or are, in fact, "un-American?"

We could call it the House UnAmerican Activities Committee? ;D

She should lose her seat just for the sheer stupidity of her statements.

[baja]

Kristol-nacht. ;D

The Nation - Eric Alterman - Join me, dear reader, in yet another inquiry into the role in American political life of William Kristol. My goal is not merely to point out, yet again, his miserable record of prognostication relating to the invasion of Iraq. That's now a given. And in fact, while Kristol has been spectacularly wrong, he has not been the wrongest of the top two Weekly Standard editors. That honor would have to go to executive editor Fred Barnes, who, oblivious to what almost all Americans and (finally) most pundits now know, continues to portray George W. Bush as a heroic figure and successful President.


www.thenation.com



Kristolizing the (Neoconservative) Moment

The liberal media by Eric Alterman

The Nation
February 12, 2007 issue

Copyright 2007 - Eric Alterman - The Nation
[Republished at PEJ News with Agence Global permission]


But while Barnes is a bad joke to most, his colleague Kristol continues to add to his panoply of powerful pundit positions. Not only is he EiC of The Weekly Standard, a semi-regular columnist for the Washington Post, a Fox News analyst and a frequent face on Jon Stewart's The Daily Show; he is also a regular columnist for Time. By any measure he remains, as Bernard-Henri L?vy once deemed him, America's "archetype of the neoconservative." What this means in Kristol's case is that what may look like journalism to the naked eye, and is passed along as such by his editors and producers, is really something quite different.

Make no mistake: Bill Kristol is an extremely smart fellow with good manners and a likable demeanor. Because he is so smart, it's all but impossible to believe that he believes many of the things he says and writes. But if one looks for a consistent pattern to Kristol's perpetual wrongness, it's not hard to discern. For Kristol is less interested in being correct than in advancing his side's interests. He's not a journalist; he's an apparatchik working undercover as a man of the press.

Back in 1993, when Kristol admitted to just being a Republican strategist, he made a name for himself by writing a strategy memo in which he altered the course of American politics by convincing Republicans not to compromise with the Clinton Administration healthcare plan but to destroy it. "Any Republican urge to negotiate a 'least bad' compromise with the Democrats, and thereby gain momentary public credit for helping the president 'do something,'" he wrote, "if it can be beaten, it unravels other things. We have to beat the Clinton plan period, no ifs, ands or buts."

http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=6529&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

[SoCalBronco]

The repubs are good at killing someone and pinning it on some stooge. (See kennedy).

The Republicans didnt kill Kennedy, not that it was any kind of a loss anyway.

I can't believe you guys, sometimes. You'll even blame the GOP for murder. Unbelievable.

[SoCalBronco]

Republicans were violently bitter after Nixon's impeachment.



For good reason. I'm glad I wasn't alive back then, I'd be ashamed to be an American if I were around in 1974 and saw all that stuff unfold live. I'd be ****ing ashamed if I had to watch that disgusting self righteous hypocrisy of the worst kind happen live.

[Miss I.]

The Republicans didnt kill Kennedy, not that it was any kind of a loss anyway.

I can't believe you guys, sometimes. You'll even blame the GOP for murder. Unbelievable.

I don't believe that the Republicans killed Kennedy, however, the comment about it not being any kind of loss is tacky at the very least. Just from the standpoint of having 2 children to raise, it was certainly a loss to the people who loved him. Beyond that the leader of the free world being murdered, regardless of whether you agree with his policies, is a loss. Not only that but it puts our freedom and many other things in jeopardy. If someone can kill the President, hit the Pentagon, etc, they can hit at the very heart of us. The only thing I blame the GOP for is the rampant corporate greed that has contributed to the destruction of our economy.

[Rohirrim]

For good reason. I'm glad I wasn't alive back then, I'd be ashamed to be an American if I were around in 1974 and saw all that stuff unfold live. I'd be ****ing ashamed if I had to watch that disgusting self righteous hypocrisy of the worst kind happen live.

What, the rightful exercise of justice on a bunch of criminals?

[SoCalBronco]

What, the rightful exercise of justice on a bunch of criminals?

I like you Roh, but you're so ignorant on this, sometimes. I can't believe the hypocrisy that is allowed to go on over and over. The pretty faced ones are allowed to plunder as they please, but those who are actually productive, those who are actually great get ****ed up. There's no problem in changing the rules in the middle of the game depending on who it is, huh? Those who have unclean hands are estopped from complaining and pointing fingers.

I will never forgive the Democratic Party for that. Ever. There's nothing they can do to make up for that. I'm getting pissed needlessly now and its probably affecting my blood pressure, so I'm going to just stop right here.

[Rohirrim]

I like you Roh, but you're so ignorant on this, sometimes. I can't believe the hypocrisy that is allowed to go on over and over. The pretty faced ones are allowed to plunder as they please, but those who are actually productive, those who are actually great get ****ed up. There's no problem in changing the rules in the middle of the game depending on who it is, huh? Those who have unclean hands are estopped from complaining and pointing fingers.

I will never forgive the Democratic Party for that. Ever. There's nothing they can do to make up for that. I'm getting pissed needlessly now and its probably affecting my blood pressure, so I'm going to just stop right here.

You are actually echoing Nixon's argument against JFK; The "pretty boy" argument. In Nixon's psyche, that was the destructive element that brought him down: Envy. That led to the paranoia. But no argument about politics (yes, I accept that JFK's dad pulled some dirty tricks in Chicago but Nixon did a whole lot more) can change the facts that Nixon broke laws and encouraged others to break laws, many of whom (Colson, Liddy, etc.) were prosecuted in a court of law and sentenced to jail. They had every opportunity to present a defense in open court and their defense failed. It wasn't just politics.

[SoCalBronco]

You are actually echoing Nixon's argument against JFK; The "pretty boy" argument. In Nixon's psyche, that was the destructive element that brought him down: Envy. That led to the paranoia. But no argument about politics (yes, I accept that JFK's dad pulled some dirty tricks in Chicago but Nixon did a whole lot more) can change the facts that Nixon broke laws and encouraged others to break laws, many of whom (Colson, Liddy, etc.) were prosecuted in a court of law and sentenced to jail. They had every opportunity to present a defense in open court and their defense failed. It wasn't just politics.

I had prepared a five paragraph reply to your post re: the issues, but I just cut it all out because I don't want to get into it as I noted above, because I get angered easily. I think its better for me to just say this. I agree with the widely respected and late Stephen Ambrose. America lost more than it gained when Nixon was forced from office. He was right (it was a bit ironic for him to finally adopt this position when he had protested Nixon as a professor at Kansas St. in 1971 during a speech there, but looking at things coolly and rationally twenty years laer, he did). The general scholarship is just starting to appreciate that position, and I'm not even talking about the scholars who are Nixon supporters such as Joan Hoff-Wilson. I will leave it at that because we will never agree on this.

[Paladin]

Nope

[Rohirrim]

I guess history will decide, as it always does.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are actually echoing Nixon's argument against JFK; The "pretty boy" argument. In Nixon's psyche, that was the destructive element that brought him down: Envy. That led to the paranoia. But no argument about politics (yes, I accept that JFK's dad pulled some dirty tricks in Chicago but Nixon did a whole lot more) can change the facts that Nixon broke laws and encouraged others to break laws, many of whom (Colson, Liddy, etc.) were prosecuted in a court of law and sentenced to jail. They had every opportunity to present a defense in open court and their defense failed. It wasn't just politics.

By his own admission, SocCal hadn't even been born yet when these things happened.

It sounds like he's getting his "history" from some fawning Nixon bio.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't believe that the Republicans killed Kennedy, however, the comment about it not being any kind of loss is tacky at the very least.

It's WAY beyond "tacky" - it's downright sociopathic - and utterly reprehensible.

[Paladin]

SoCalBronco:

When Kennedy was assassinated, it was the most devastating day for most Americans alive that day and many, many people around the world. Kennedy had captured the imagination of Americans in a magical way that had never really happened before in out life times. FDR was revered, Truman was respected, Eisenhower was respected, but Kennedy was idolized.

To a point, Obama carries that same sort of burden. It is a terrible burden of hope and longing by nearly 300 million Americans and countless others around the world for a cleaner, better, saner American government and American leadership. I think he will measure up well, but it will not be as perfect as some would hope. McCain would be just more of the same.

But you knew all about that because you "read" about it, right?

I lived it, sonny. And for you to call Kennedy not a "big loss" is blasphemy on the American soul.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

SoCalBronco:

When Kennedy was assassinated, it was the most devastating day for most Americans alive that day and many, many people around the world. Kennedy had captured the imagination of Americans in a magical way that had never really happened before in out life times. FDR was revered, Truman was respected, Eisenhower was respected, but Kennedy was idolized.

To a point, Obama carries that same sort of burden. It is a terrible burden of hope and longing by nearly 300 million Americans and countless others around the world for a cleaner, better, saner American government and American leadership. I think he will measure up well, but it will not be as perfect as some would hope. McCain would be just more of the same.

But you knew all about that because you "read" about it, right?

I lived it, sonny. And for you to call Kennedy not a "big loss" is blasphemy on the American soul.

QFT.

I lost whatever respect I might have had for SoCalBronco right there.

[SoCalBronco]

By his own admission, SocCal hadn't even been born yet when these things happened.

It sounds like he's getting his "history" from some fawning Nixon bio.

Actually, I've read over 35 volumes on the subject, including several non-biographies (records of files, transcripts of academic conferences etc.), much less fawning ones. Nice try, though.

[SoCalBronco]

SoCalBronco:

When Kennedy was assassinated, it was the most devastating day for most Americans alive that day and many, many people around the world. Kennedy had captured the imagination of Americans in a magical way that had never really happened before in out life times. FDR was revered, Truman was respected, Eisenhower was respected, but Kennedy was idolized.

To a point, Obama carries that same sort of burden. It is a terrible burden of hope and longing by nearly 300 million Americans and countless others around the world for a cleaner, better, saner American government and American leadership. I think he will measure up well, but it will not be as perfect as some would hope. McCain would be just more of the same.

But you knew all about that because you "read" about it, right?

I lived it, sonny. And for you to call Kennedy not a "big loss" is blasphemy on the American soul.

You're entitled to your opinion. That's nice. That people idolized him makes it no more or less of a loss. It's an irrelevant consideration.

[SoCalBronco]

QFT.

I lost whatever respect I might have had for SoCalBronco right there.

How will I sleep at night knowing that?

I don't particularly give a crap what you think about me.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You're entitled to your opinion. That's nice. That people idolized him makes it no more or less of a loss. It's an irrelevant consideration.

:stupid:

Most idiotic post ever.

[Spider]

I like you Roh, but you're so ignorant on this, sometimes. I can't believe the hypocrisy that is allowed to go on over and over. The pretty faced ones are allowed to plunder as they please, but those who are actually productive, those who are actually great get ****ed up. There's no problem in changing the rules in the middle of the game depending on who it is, huh? Those who have unclean hands are estopped from complaining and pointing fingers.

I will never forgive the Democratic Party for that. Ever. There's nothing they can do to make up for that. I'm getting pissed needlessly now and its probably affecting my blood pressure, so I'm going to just stop right here.

I was young , but remember Watergate very well , Watergate is a gateway to get Nixon , make no mistake about it , But Nixon made alot of mistakes like his list , Bombings in Cambodia , I am not saying Nixon didnt do good things , like opening up China and Moscow, the EPA , but his underhanded deceitful ways got him in the end , but that doesnt make up for some of the dirty stuff he had the CIA do cause of his own Paranoia , you want to be pissed , be pissed at Agnew , Kissenger ,The Dems were not the ones to blame

[gunns]

For good reason. I'm glad I wasn't alive back then, I'd be ashamed to be an American if I were around in 1974 and saw all that stuff unfold live. I'd be ****ing ashamed if I had to watch that disgusting self righteous hypocrisy of the worst kind happen live.

In a way the same thing happened to Nixon that happened to Clinton. I'm curious, did you see the hypocrisy in that?

[Spider]

The Republicans didnt kill Kennedy, not that it was any kind of a loss anyway.

I can't believe you guys, sometimes. You'll even blame the GOP for murder. Unbelievable.
Sure it was , it was a huge loss for us as a country ...... Hell even Bobby Kennedy taking on Hoffa captured the minds of Americans every where , even became known as a blood feud , Hell Nixon pardon Hoffa ......

[Spider]

make no mistake about it , W is a far worse president then Nixon ever was ..... but Nixons own Paranoia did him in ....... I wish W made the same mistakes

[SoCalBronco]

In a way the same thing happened to Nixon that happened to Clinton. I'm curious, did you see the hypocrisy in that?

I do see the hypocrisy in that. I've mentioned it before in a long post I had a few months ago about polarizing figures. Look it up. If you look at my post history you will also find that I have rated President Clinton 4th best among the post-WWII presidents from Truman to present (you will rarely find a Republican on this forum who would agree with that). I still supported his ouster at the time (1998), however, because I wanted revenge for Watergate. I would not have supported it but for that, though.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What "revenge?"

Nixon's own party threw him under the bus.

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/blue.jpg

[SoCalBronco]

What "revenge?"

Nixon's own party threw him under the bus.

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/blue.jpg

That is correct to a large extent, however, they did not initiate anything.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/kil-the-media.jpg

[TailgateNut]

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/kil-the-media.jpg


That REBEL buckle says it all.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A metro grandmother is suing Republican presidential candidate John McCain, his running mate Sarah Palin, and his campaign manager for promoting hate speech. The grandmother claims some statements made about Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama at an out-of-state rally terrify her as much as J-F-K's assassination. 10/20 (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=561349D4-6E28-419C-B016-521B0834F5D2&gsa=true)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Via the Minnesota Independent we learn that a McCain/Palin supporter compared Obama to mass murderer Charles Manson during a rally for First Dude Todd Palin and Republican Senator Norm Coleman (who is about to lose to Al Franken) in Minnesota. And, as usual, no one at the McCain/Palin rally did a thing about it. It's also interesting that the person even got into the rally with his own sign - these kind of things are often stopped at the door, since the campaign doesn't want errant messages - or worse, protesters, raising signs in front of the candidates. Yet a sign comparing Obama to a mass murderer miraculously slips through. Maybe the Secret Service was busy making sandwiches for Todd. 10/19 (http://www.americablog.com/2008/10/obama-compared-to-mass-murderer-charles.html)

[barryr]

Oh brother. Of all the hatred and venom spewed about Bush for 8 years and how he stole this, how he cheated that, how he lied about this and that. And this is used as evidence to start violence? Whatever.

[Garcia Bronco]

The only thing I blame the GOP for is the rampant corporate greed that has contributed to the destruction of our economy.

You can look at both parties for that.

[Atlas]

This is the text of the message McCain is sending all over America:

'Hello. I'm calling for John McCain and the RNC because you need to know that Barack Obama has worked closely with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, whose organization bombed the U.S. capitol, the Pentagon, a judge's home and killed Americans. And Democrats will enact an extreme leftist agenda if they take control of Washington. Barack Obama and his Democratic allies lack the judgment to lead our country.'

The call ends with the legally required disclosure, informing the listener that the call was paid for by McCain-Palin 2008 and the Republican National Committee."

Of course, to the uneducated individual what this message says is "A terrorist is about to take over the White House and must be stopped." This is a level of incendiary speech I have never heard from any campaign, ever. This goes beyond all bounds. In court, this could be called incitement. I guarantee you, the message of the McCain campaign will lead to violence.

Yep.... check out my sig.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You can look at both parties for that.

Um, no, you can't.

The republi-cons have controlled the WH and both chambers of Congress for six of the last eight years.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oh brother. Of all the hatred and venom spewed about Bush for 8 years and how he stole this, how he cheated that, how he lied about this and that. And this is used as evidence to start violence? Whatever.

But Bush did lie, cheat, and steal.

Why do you think your party is circling the drain?

[TailgateNut]

But Bush did lie, cheat, and steal.

Why do you think your party is circling the drain?

and picking a couple of "floaters" as candidates.;D