What if......

[DenverBrit]

What if things were switched around.....think about it.
Would the country's collective point of view be different?

Could racism be the culprit?

Ponder the following:

What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?

What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?

What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution?

What if the Obamas had adopted a white child? You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.



Educational Background:

Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specializati on in International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism


Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the entire world. You make the call.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The right would be singing a totally different tune, to be sure.

[Spider]

deep stuff ... what if Cat was spelled with a K ......

[DenverBrit]

deep stuff ... what if Cat was spelled with a K ......

It isn't?? ;D

[Spider]

It isn't?? ;D

Not according to spell check ;D

[stugotsII]

What if things were switched around.....think about it.
Would the country's collective point of view be different?

Could racism be the culprit?

Ponder the following:

What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?

What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?

What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution?

What if the Obamas had adopted a white child? You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.



Educational Background:

Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specializati on in International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:

Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism


Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the entire world. You make the call.

I think it's a lot better than it used to be...

After all, Obama is most likely going to win by a landslide...so doesn't that point to racism not factoring in?

[BarefootKicker]

I think it's a lot better than it used to be...

Two questions.

1) better than what? we've never been in this position before, on the cusp of a black man assuming the highest office in the land

and

2)Suppose it being "better" is true, race is still a factor. People are openly admitting to pollsters and reporters...How is race not a factor?

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The point of the the original post of this thread is still a valid one. If the credentials of the candidates were reversed, Obama wouldn't be in the position he's in simply because of the color of his skin.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The point of the the original post of this thread is still a valid one. If the credentials of the candidates were reversed, Obama wouldn't be in the position he's in simply because of the color of his skin.

Ding ding ding! :yep:

[stugotsII]

Two questions.

1) better than what? we've never been in this position before, on the cusp of a black man assuming the highest office in the land


and

2)Suppose it being "better" is true, race is still a factor. People are openly admitting to pollsters and reporters...How is race not a factor?



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The point of the the original post of this thread is still a valid one. If the credentials of the candidates were reversed, Obama wouldn't be in the position he's in simply because of the color of his skin.

The fact the an African American is about to become the US President...I'd say that is a step in the right direction

This just in...race will always be an issue...always. I listen to Howard Stern quite a bit. Anytime he has a black guest on, they say they are voting for Barack and list his race as a contributing factory

[SJ Bronco]

deep stuff ... what if Cat was spelled with a K ......

Rep for the "revenge of the Nerds" reference....Ha!

[TailgateNut]

This just in...race will always be an issue...always.


....so will ignorance and the "whitey factor" on the other side of the fence.

[Spider]

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Al-****a . pissed me off with this , portraying Americans like this ..lousy cock sucking bastards , they were plenty of people there , they only pick out the worst of the bunch and show that .......... lousy bastards

[DenverBrit]

The point of the the original post of this thread is still a valid one. If the credentials of the candidates were reversed, Obama wouldn't be in the position he's in simply because of the color of his skin.

This 'what if', alone, would have sunk his candidacy before it began:

What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

Yet, Palin supporters consider her 'brood' proof of her family values making it a positive.
Race and religion are still factors amongst those who still live in the 17th century.

[Bronco Bob]

What if things were switched around.....think about it.
Would the country's collective point of view be different?

[B]Could racism be the culprit?

Ponder the following:

What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?



Well, yesterday Obama did admit to fathering two African-American children.
I'm surprised the right hasn't picked up on that. After all it worked for
George Bush against McCain in 2000.

[Mr.Meanie]

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?

Jesus...that's a bit harsh. I'm no McCain fan, but I don't think you can judge anyone's motives in that sort of situation.

[TailgateNut]

Jesus...that's a bit harsh. I'm no McCain fan, but I don't think you can judge anyone's motives in that sort of situation.

You can surely paint a clear picture of the type of person who would do that to his/her partner. Would you abandon your wife?

[DenverBrit]

Jesus...that's a bit harsh. I'm no McCain fan, but I don't think you can judge anyone's motives in that sort of situation.


The negative tone of this campaign is a two way street, and some voters have picked up the ball and are running with it.

Both parties should be proud.

[BarefootKicker]

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Al-****a . pissed me off with this , portraying Americans like this ..lousy cock sucking bastards , they were plenty of people there , they only pick out the worst of the bunch and show that .......... lousy bastards

would you rather me post the one from CBS news? It doesn't matter the media outlet.

[Rohirrim]

I'm also surprised the Right has not made more of Obama's confession that he was actually born on Krypton.

[Paladin]

Jesus...that's a bit harsh. I'm no McCain fan, but I don't think you can judge anyone's motives in that sort of situation.

Gingritch. a gavorite of teh neocons, told his wife he wanted a divorce while she laid in a hospital bed die to cancer. How's that different? Both are scumbags.....

[BroncoBuff]

My take is this dynamic has little to do with race, and everything to do with the low standards of the GOP and most Republicans.

Make no mistake, there is a bright line to be drawn between the two parties and their entire approach to the discourse of political and societal issues. The Republicans' easy tolerance of dirty tricks, disdain for intellectualism, flag and patriotic imagery worship, and their rigid adherence to conformity and authority despite all evidence it should be challenged, makes them a different bird from Dems altogether. They fall in line lock-step to agree with bizarre notions, like Sarah Palin can see Russia from her house, and that we shouldn't talk to our enemies.... because Republicans live by an unwritten code NOT to question the lead dog. And as such, they are able to employ entirely different rules of engagment without worry of internal discord.

The reality - if the real scientific truth be known - is that people are largely born and/or raised to be one or the other, might even be genetic in some way. Blaming a Repub for being a Repub is an utter waste of time, because changing their opinion or their approach requires they question themselves ... which is precisely what they NEVER do ... what their unwritten code prohibits. The Republican gene was probably very valuable when mankind was less evolved (no joke intended). Following the lead dog without question prolly helped us rise to the top of the food chain.

[TailgateNut]

The Republican gene was probably very valuable when mankind was less evolved (no joke intended). .


:thumbsup:

[Mr.Meanie]

You can surely paint a clear picture of the type of person who would do that to his/her partner. Would you abandon your wife?

I wouldn't, but honestly it would be none of yours or anyone else's business how my marriage ended up. I see everyone complaining about the mud-slinging of McCain...but this garbage is exactly the same thing.

I don't really like McCain, I don't agree with his policies, and his running mate is an absolute embarrassment.... but that personal stuff is no ones business. You have no clue what goes on in people's personal relationships.

I haven't been here long obviously, but I would bet you were pissed about the R's intrusion into Clinton's affairs, no?

[BroncoBuff]

I wouldn't, but honestly it would be none of yours or anyone else's business how my marriage ended up. I see everyone complaining about the mud-slinging of McCain...but this garbage is exactly the same thing.
No it's not. Virtually nothing is EVER said about McCain's philandering and divorce. And yet we talk all the time lately is some guy Obama met 10 years ago, who has a criminal past that pre-dates McCain's divorce!

The difference, again (read my post above), is that Democrats have an internal check on rogue behavior and attacking. Democrats are in general far more likely to question their party line ... which is precisely why neither Obama or Biden have ever mentioned McCain's divorce. On the other hand, Republicans do not have that kind of check ... they don't question their party line. Part of being a Republican is not to question the party line. So accordingly, both McCain and Palin talk 24/7 about William Ayers.

Do you see that difference?

[Mr.Meanie]

No it's not. Virtually nothing is EVER said about McCain's philandering and divorce. And yet we talk all the time lately is some guy Obama met 10 years ago, who has a criminal past that pre-dates McCain's divorce!

The difference, again (read my post above), is that Democrats have an internal check on rogue behavior and attacking. Democrats are in general far more likely to question their party line ... which is precisely why neither Obama or Biden have ever mentioned McCain's divorce. On the other hand, Republicans do not have that kind of check ... they don't question their party line. Part of being a Republican is not to question the party line. So accordingly, both McCain and Palin talk 24/7 about William Ayers.

Do you see that difference?

I agree with you on the internal check part. And I agree people haven't been mentioning the divorce and crap... and that's good. But it's almost like you're saying "well it's okay because they do it worse, and we almost NEVER talk about x" which I don't agree with. If you say you're above it and you are not going to talk about his divorce, but then you're saying he left his wife because she was disfigured and below his standards.... don't you see the contradiction there?

I'm sick of the Republican smear garbage, and some of the Democrats seem comfortable going into the gutter while being offended that the other side is doing the same thing.

Just my take.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No it's not. Virtually nothing is EVER said about McCain's philandering and divorce. And yet we talk all the time lately is some guy Obama met 10 years ago, who has a criminal past that pre-dates McCain's divorce!


And nothing is ever said about the fact that the same republican who hired Ayers to the board on which Obama later served (and who gave Ayers a $49M grant) is one of McCain's top campaign donors.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

My take is this dynamic has little to do with race, and everything to do with the low standards of the GOP and most Republicans.

Make no mistake, there is a bright line to be drawn between the two parties and their entire approach to the discourse of political and societal issues. The Republicans' easy tolerance of dirty tricks, disdain for intellectualism, flag and patriotic imagery worship, and their rigid adherence to conformity and authority despite all evidence it should be challenged, makes them a different bird from Dems altogether. They fall in line lock-step to agree with bizarre notions, like Sarah Palin can see Russia from her house, and that we shouldn't talk to our enemies.... because Republicans live by an unwritten code NOT to question the lead dog. And as such, they are able to employ entirely different rules of engagment without worry of internal discord.

The reality - if the real scientific truth be known - is that people are largely born and/or raised to be one or the other, might even be genetic in some way. Blaming a Repub for being a Repub is an utter waste of time, because changing their opinion or their approach requires they question themselves ... which is precisely what they NEVER do ... what their unwritten code prohibits. The Republican gene was probably very valuable when mankind was less evolved (no joke intended). Following the lead dog without question prolly helped us rise to the top of the food chain.

Hammer, nail, head! :thumbsup:

One of the best posts ever! ^5

[BroncoBuff]

Hammer, nail, head! :thumbsup:

One of the best posts ever! ^5
:thanku:

I'm gonna add something to what I said there that might alter your praise slightly:

The Republican gene was probably very valuable when mankind was less evolved (no joke intended). Following the lead dog without question prolly helped us rise to the top of the food chain.
I would like to extend this quote ... to add that the "conforming adherence to authority" social mindset probably helped the United States very much between 1929 until the late 1950s. That period had external crises that made such a philosophy far preferable to the more individualized challenging of authority. But hey, Vietnam and Dallas ended all that.

It's really too bad Reagan was elected ... he stretched out that 'religio-patriotic authority philosophy' far past its true utility.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

:thanku:

I'm gonna add something to what I said there that might alter your praise slightly:


I would like to extend this quote ... to add that the "conforming adherence to authority" social mindset probably helped the United States very much between 1929 until the late 1950s. That period had external crises that made such a philosophy far preferable to the more individualized challenging of authority. But hey, Vietnam and Dallas ended all that.

It's really too bad Reagan was elected ... he stretched out that 'religio-patriotic authority philosophy' far past its true utility.

No, you're right: it's normal for social groups to become more regimented and authoritarian (or "patriarchal" in the Jungian sense of the word, if you will) during times of war or crisis - the tough part is relinquishing these adaptations once they are no longer appropriate or necessary (which is where conservatism fails, IMO.)

[Odysseus]

Two questions.

1) better than what? we've never been in this position before, on the cusp of a black man assuming the highest office in the land

and

2)Suppose it being "better" is true, race is still a factor. People are openly admitting to pollsters and reporters...How is race not a factor?

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The point of the the original post of this thread is still a valid one. If the credentials of the candidates were reversed, Obama wouldn't be in the position he's in simply because of the color of his skin.

We have a rare opportunity to overturn 16 years of "them and us" politics. People get confused when politicians are cerebral instead of ascerbic. People are not used to a candidate that wants to listen to their point of view.

I think 18 months of grueling campaigning has toughed Obama up quite a bit and any questions about knowing him or if he's ready are immature questions. He's been clear about a lot of things and it's time people stopped making up stuff.