Debate: The Finale

[Rohirrim]

Finally! After two years of what's got to be the longest presidential campaign in history, we come to the last debate. Of course, there's not much debate going on. Seems like both parties have drained all the blood out of the process. Given the way things are going, I'm guessing that not only does this last debate not matter much, but a whole lot fewer people will even be paying attention. Seems like the mind of this country is already made up. As Spider put it, we're going to be an Obamanation. ;D

Does anybody think that McCain can do anything to turn this ship around?

[Traveler]

Since I've voted early, the only thing I'll be watching for is if/how McCain confronts Obama.

Does he go negative? Will Obama corner him for specifics when McCain says "I know how to blah, blah blah?

[Paladin]

It's the GD "blah, blah, blah" that turns me off. I am all in; I voted early and I am going fishing.....

[Rohirrim]

Huffpost is claiming that Colin Powell will endorse Obama tomorrow. Wonder what that will do to the polls? If anything?

[Traveler]

Huffpost is claiming that Colin Powell will endorse Obama tomorrow. Wonder what that will do to the polls? If anything?

Probably not much since some prominent conservatives are already jumpimg ship.

Also not sure how much clout he has remaining amongst folks atfer his UN fiasco.

[Hotrod]

I think tonight McCain will win the hearts and minds of the voters. This is his moment to shine and really seal the deal.

[TheDave]

This has been over since Nov 5th 2004... but for ****s and grins i'll watch it.

[Paladin]

I think tonight McCain will win the hearts and minds of the voters. This is his moment to shine and really seal the deal.

Use your sarcsm button. W*GS is watching.....

[Rohirrim]

I think tonight McCain will win the hearts and minds of the voters. This is his moment to shine and really seal the deal.

Well, he does have that winning smile. Ha!

[Old Dude]

I'm not being forced to watch this one, so I won't.

[Rohirrim]

I'm not being forced to watch this one, so I won't.

Not only do I have to watch it, but I have to make the wife her popcorn. ROFL!

[Crushaholic]

Voters tend to have a short-term memory, which explains why we are innundated with ads during the last month of the campaign. Having said that, Obama has run a brilliant campaign, and McCain will HAVE to come up with something earth-shattering to win this thing...

[BroncoBuff]

Don't look for fireworks ... Obama will stay WAY ABOVE the fray, strictly high road for him. Anything less is reckless with a lead like his.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Does anybody think that McCain can do anything to turn this ship around?

Nope.

It's abundantly clear that McBush's campaign has been reduced to desperate mud slinging, lies, and distortions.

The make-believe maverick and the candy striper have nothing else left in the tank.

[Rigs11]

Obama with the TKO

[Pseudofool]

Huffpost is claiming that Colin Powell will endorse Obama tomorrow. Wonder what that will do to the polls? If anything?
Link? I was searching the site with no luck.

This is bigger, I think, than many believe. Beyond, Petreus, Powell was the most recent face of our last successful military campaign.

[Rohirrim]

Link? I was searching the site with no luck.

This is bigger, I think, than many believe. Beyond, Petreus, Powell was the most recent face of our last successful military campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/colin-powell-is-ready-to_b_134777.html

[24champ]

McCain's last stand.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/G_a_custer.jpg/487px-G_a_custer.jpg

[elsid13]

It interesting debates so far. I am glad that asked question about the rhetoric

[BroncoInferno]

Honestly, I'd say McCain is winning this debate right now. Will it continue, and if it does, will it make any difference in the polls? We will see.

[Clockwork Orange]

McCain playing the victim after all of the things that he and his campaign have said about Obama over the last couple of weeks is laughable.

[theAPAOps5]

Honestly, I'd say McCain is winning this debate right now. Will it continue, and if it does, will it make any difference in the polls? We will see.

McTwitch is winning if by winning meaning he is attacking like he has nothing to lose and is desperate. Then yes McTwitch is winning. Problem is his twitches and smiles, and red face is just not coming across the screen well. This won't make a difference.

[BroncoInferno]

McCain playing the victim after all of the things that he and his campaign have said about Obama over the last couple of weeks is laughable.

He is winning the point though because Obama won't hit him back and call him out on his dishonesty.

[theAPAOps5]

He is winning the point though because Obama won't hit him back and call him out on his dishonesty.

Yeah and why do you think that is? Because Obama is even tempered and presidential. He is supposed to take a slap to the face and smile politely back. Again by if by winning you mean McCain is being the nastier of the 2 then yes he is winning.

But Obama is winning by taking the high road and only throwing body blows. Like he says he can take another 3 weeks of muck and mud. Very Presidential of the 2.

[tsiguy96]

mccain is an idiot, keeps talking about joe plumber and obama taking his money. is joe plumber making over 250k? mccain doesnt understand that obama is giving money back to the middle class, not taking it from them or redistributing it.

[theAPAOps5]

I find it comical 3 people have actually voted McCain will land the punch to turn around a 7pt average deficit. Let me guess its Need A Pass Rush, W*gs, and spdirty.

[bronco militia]

has obama always been this big a pussy?

or is mccain a bully?

[Clockwork Orange]

Obama doesn't appear to want to get into a muckraking contest. He wants to make sure people's focus stays on the issues.

[theAPAOps5]

has obama always been this big a p***Y?

or is mccain a bully?

Its called being mature and even keeled and playing with a lead.

[tsiguy96]

again, mccain accuses obama of raising taxes. what a moron.

[24champ]

has obama always been this big a p***Y?

or is mccain a bully?

McCain is just going out Guns a blazing.

Obama looks weak. Not a surprise to me.

[Clockwork Orange]

McCain keeps running back to the "He's going to raise your taxes!" line. It didn't work in the first three debates, it's not going to work tonight.

[bronco militia]

Its called being mature and even keeled and playing with a lead.

or he doesn't know what to do without his handlers

see George W Bush.

It doesn't matter to me...I'm not voting for either one

[theAPAOps5]

McCain is just going out Guns a blazing.

Obama looks weak. Not a surprise to me.

McCain looks week to me. He has run out of issues to attack with. So he is like the trapped little dog who just yaps and yaps. Joe Plumber, Taxes, etc.

[theAPAOps5]

or he doesn't know what to do without his handlers

see George W Bush.

I doesn't matter it to me...I not voting for either one

His handlers huh?

[bronco militia]

His handlers huh?

is posse more appropriate? Ha!

[24champ]

or he doesn't know what to do without his handlers

see George W Bush.

It doesn't matter to me...I'm not voting for either one

Doesn't know what to do without a teleprompter.

Agreed. They both suck

[BroncoInferno]

McCain is just going out Guns a blazing.

Obama looks weak. Not a surprise to me.

Only to Republicans does it look weak to not role around in the mud. Since when is remaining calm, cool, and collected weak, and hot-headed muckraking strong?

I thought McCain started out well, but he made a mistake with the Ayers/ACORN stuff. Obama handled that calmly and well and I doubt many people bought McCain's dishonesty there (at least not anyone who wasn't in the bag for McCain anyway).

[theAPAOps5]

is posse more appropriate? Ha!

LOL I am being a smart ass. But if Gonzo still posted here you would be in for a huge flame session! :spit:

[bronco militia]

LOL I am being a smart ass. But if Gonzo still posted here you would be in for a huge flame session! :spit:

Ha!

I miss gonzo

[TDmvp]

Ha!

I miss gonzo


http://goatmilk.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/gonzo1.jpg http://www.candycritic.org/chipoff/lays.jpg

[24champ]

McCain looks week to me. He has run out of issues to attack with. So he is like the trapped little dog who just yaps and yaps. Joe Plumber, Taxes, etc.

The last two debates he was too weak and nice to Obama, not tonight. The gloves appeared to have come off.

That's what happens when your down by a considerable margin. It's not the first time I have seen this happen, Dole did the same thing against Clinton. Didn't act like he wanted the Presidency until the last 2-3 weeks of the election.

[bronco militia]

http://goatmilk.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/gonzo1.jpg http://www.candycritic.org/chipoff/lays.jpg

LOL

[JCMElway]

Right now I'd say that Obama is like a football team that has a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter. He's just going to run the ball, wear down the defense, and punt if he has to. Nothing fancy, no trickery, just solid grind-it-out and stick to the issues politics.

Obama will win this debate with the focus groups not because of issues, but because of demeanor and looking presidential. McCain looks erratic and twitchy. When Obama disagrees with a point, he just smiles. When McCain disagrees he's twitching, puffing, and gets odd expressions on his face. Obama looks poised, in control, and VERY presidential.

[PaintballCLE]

ok ignoring who your voting for...........everyone must admit this was McCains best debate and Obamas worst........any disagree?

[24champ]

any disagree?

Only the Obamatrons on this board.

[Odysseus]

What is McCain talking about? Is he listening to anything Obama is saying?

McCain is more focused on talking points than on responding to anything or listening. He is making good talking points but dayum doesn't he hear the questions being asked of him?

Obama appears rattled but he's definitely making his points known.

[BroncoInferno]

ok ignoring who your voting for...........everyone must admit this was McCains best debate and Obamas worst........any disagree?

Agree, though I thought McCain started strong and has been fading ever since. Not the game-changer he needed.

[theAPAOps5]

ok ignoring who your voting for...........everyone must admit this was McCains best debate and Obamas worst........any disagree?

If by best you mean last ditch desperation flailing trying to land a punch then yes it was his best. It was also his least presidential debate and thats not a good thing watching the last 2.

[theAPAOps5]

Right now I'd say that Obama is like a football team that has a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter. He's just going to run the ball, wear down the defense, and punt if he has to. Nothing fancy, no trickery, just solid grind-it-out and stick to the issues politics.

Obama will win this debate with the focus groups not because of issues, but because of demeanor and looking presidential. McCain looks erratic and twitchy. When Obama disagrees with a point, he just smiles. When McCain disagrees he's twitching, puffing, and gets odd expressions on his face. Obama looks poised, in control, and VERY presidential.

Correction like a football team with a 7.4 pt lead.

[gunns]

Don't agree at all. Obama supporters were upset in the first debate that Obama didn't pound McCain. That debate bit McCain in the butt. McCain has merely played the stereotyping the Democrats game and after the lies the Republicans have put forth over the years, people are waking up and not liking what they are seeing from the desperation of the Republican candidate. Wanting an apology for not repudiating someone elses comment about McCains rallies. How stupid can you get. Plus saying he has knocked down whenever someone said something out of line. Yeah 3 weeks after they started and his party started complaining. Sorry, people are paying attention this time.

[PaintballCLE]

If by best you mean last ditch desperation flailing trying to land a punch then yes it was his best. It was also his least presidential debate and thats not a good thing watching the last 2.

semi agree.........but i think its working.....obama seems very defensive tonight

[theAPAOps5]

semi agree.........but i think its working.....obama seems very defensive tonight

Its working only in that it may win him THIS debate but I doubt it changes the outcome of the polls.

[theAPAOps5]

That CNN doohickey shows the experts with a slight edge to McCain. Which should be about right with the heavy punches being thrown. Just not the game changer needed.

[PaintballCLE]

Its working only in that it may win him THIS debate but I doubt it changes the outcome of the polls.

well thats all i mean.........although i think it may help in battleground states......i mean thre is no denying that obama will with the popular vote.........but i think the electoral vote will be closer than most people think at this point. I mean if this debate gives him an edge in a few states, they i would call it a success.

[TDmvp]

mccain is an idiot, keeps talking about joe plumber and obama taking his money. is joe plumber making over 250k? mccain doesnt understand that obama is giving money back to the middle class, not taking it from them or redistributing it.

if he owns his own shop , with a few crews like the guy this story is about "the guy Obama was speaking to who wanted to buy his own comp. , but a owner of a small plumber shop absolutely makes 250K ... just because you make 250k don't mean you see 250k a year , hell you can make 250k a year owning a company and after taxes , payroll and over head not even live different then someone 9-5 making 40-50k ...


joe plumber would be my dad 20 years ago when we first started the trucking company ... yea we looked good on paper but stuff was tight ... and it's hard to hire more people and buy new equipment to grow at the start ... from the outside you may look rich ... but your not ...

[frerottenextelway]

My Tivo is about 20 minutes behind - has McCain's head officially exploded yet?

Calm and cool vs. GET OFF MY LAWN

[theAPAOps5]

well thats all i mean.........although i think it may help in battleground states......i mean thre is no denying that obama will with the popular vote.........but i think the electoral vote will be closer than most people think at this point. I mean if this debate gives him an edge in a few states, they i would call it a success.

Won't do jack in the battle ground states. I bet Obama wins 70% of those states.

[theAPAOps5]

My Tivo is about 20 minutes behind - has McCain's head officially exploded yet?

Calm and cool vs. GET OFF MY LAWN

After tonight his new Moniker is McTwitch.

[frerottenextelway]

if he owns his own shop , with a few crews like the guy this story is about "the guy Obama was speaking to who wanted to buy his own comp. , but a owner of a small plumber shop absolutely makes 250K ... just because you make 250k don't mean you see 250k a year , hell you can make 250k a year owning a company and after taxes , payroll and over head not even live different then someone 9-5 making 40-50k ...


joe plumber would be my dad 20 years ago when we first started the trucking company ... yea we looked good on paper but stuff was tight ... and it's hard to hire more people and buy new equipment to grow at the start ... from the outside you may look rich ... but your not ...

That's great, since Obama's plan is only relevant for net profit not gross income. Glad you back it now that I corrected you.

[frerottenextelway]

After tonight his new Moniker is McTwitch.

the split screen isn't helpful for McCain. I'm behind, but I think the post-debate phone polls will show that O/B won all 4 debates.

[TDmvp]

That's great, since Obama's plan is only relevant for net profit not gross income. Glad you back it now that I corrected you.


WTF are you talking about .... i was just answering the "is joe plumber making over 250k"


and the answer was yes he could ... no policy , just a answer of what sounded like you not knowing if a small time plumber could make 250k ... and trust me if i needed corrected this place is the last places i'd hunt reliable info ...

[Odysseus]

He is winning the point though because Obama won't hit him back and call him out on his dishonesty.

He can't. If he gets defensive he doesn't look presidential.

McCain is throwing everything but the kitchen sink. He is attacking with pre scripted attack points, clever one liners, and clustered sound bites.

Obama is sharing a lot of details and insights that McCain has yet to address.

[frerottenextelway]

WTF are you talking about .... i was just answering the "is joe plumber making over 250k"


and the answer was yes he could ... no policy , just a answer of what sounded like you not knowing if a small time plumber could make 250k ... and trust me if i needed corrected this place is the last places i'd hunt reliable info ...

Sorry, jumped in on page 3. I ASSumed the conversation was centered around if Joe would be taxed at higher rates when his actual net was under 250,000. My bad.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

After tonight his new Moniker is McTwitch.

ROFL!

He looked like he was a hair's breadth away from a full meltdown.

[Drek]

Obama's jujitsu is strong. McCain attacks, Obama deflects. McCain looks old, cranky, and panicky while Obama looks presidential, ice cold, and ready to go to work.

[Arkie]

Obama is the next President. He'll make a good puppet. He's a rock star. It's all about the style and charisma. Reagan, Reagan's VP, Clinton, Reagan's VP's Son, and Obama. It's all the same.

[enjolras]

Obama is the next President. He'll make a good puppet. He's a rock star. It's all about the style and charisma. Reagan, Reagan's VP, Clinton, Reagan's VP's Son, and Obama. It's all the same.

Reagan: Movie star
Bush 1: VP of a movie star
Clinton: Pure charisma
Bush 2: Son of a VP of a movie star that you want to have a beer with.
Obama: The only legitimate intellectual of the bunch.

That's the difference.

[gunns]

It's getting harder to read these posts as they change position.

The undecided that controlled the lines went with Obama and for those that this debate made a decision for them, all were for Obama.

[BroncoMatt]

Calm and cool vs. GET OFF MY LAWN(S)


Fixed it for you

[Arkie]

mccain is an idiot, keeps talking about joe plumber and obama taking his money. is joe plumber making over 250k? mccain doesnt understand that obama is giving money back to the middle class, not taking it from them or redistributing it.

Is his name really Joe? That just seems too coincidental to Joe Sixpack.

[frerottenextelway]

CBS phone polling gives Obama his largest win yet - better than 2 to 1

CBS poll of undecided voters:

Who won the debate?

McCain (R) 22
Obama (D) 53

[gunns]

Obama is the next President. He'll make a good puppet. He's a rock star. It's all about the style and charisma. Reagan, Reagan's VP, Clinton, Reagan's VP's Son, and Obama. It's all the same.


Only Clinton had the charisma. Obama shows promise. ;D

[frerottenextelway]

CNN gives it to Obama

58-31

Game.Set.Match.

[Drek]

Obama is the next President. He'll make a good puppet. He's a rock star. It's all about the style and charisma. Reagan, Reagan's VP, Clinton, Reagan's VP's Son, and Obama. It's all the same.

Yeah, those damn rock stars with their bachelors in political science with a minor in economics, graduating first in their class from Harvard Law, and teaching constitutional law at one of our nation's preeminent legal programs.

What does he know, other than the actual beliefs and theories that this country was founded on. Oh, and that whole academic mindset in which he puts things like data and research before his gut.

You can't lead if you stop and think about it. You gotta go with your gut!

[TDmvp]

Sorry, jumped in on page 3. I ASSumed the conversation was centered around if Joe would be taxed at higher rates when his actual net was under 250,000. My bad.

no biggy man ... $hit happens ...

[Rohirrim]

I'm more impressed with Obama every time I see him. He came out with a game plan and stayed zeroed in on it for the entire debate. In the end, he comes out looking like the man who is concentrated on the issues, in favor of bipartisanship, solving America's major issues, and moving away from the nasty politics of the past. In case nobody knows this, these are the issues that score the highest with independents. In other words, Obama geared this final debate performance to the exact audience he needs to move to his side. And what happened to McCain?

He comes out looking like a continuation of the nasty politics of Bush. He comes out as the guy who is going to continue the policies of the Bush cabal. He comes across as the guy who is going to continue the gridlock of partisan nastiness. Plus, he was very unclear on numerous issues, for example when he said you can't just throw money at education and then started talking about how he was going to spend money on education. Plus, he came off as befuddled on numerous issues, especially his health insurance ideas. He was completely murky. I don't think any American could explain it after tonight other than to say that McCain is going to tax health benefits. BTW, just that line sinks his campaign.

I think the American people tuned into this last debate to see if they could comfortably accept Obama in the Oval Office. My take is that they are going to say, "Yes."

[Arkie]

if he owns his own shop , with a few crews like the guy this story is about "the guy Obama was speaking to who wanted to buy his own comp. , but a owner of a small plumber shop absolutely makes 250K ... just because you make 250k don't mean you see 250k a year , hell you can make 250k a year owning a company and after taxes , payroll and over head not even live different then someone 9-5 making 40-50k ...


joe plumber would be my dad 20 years ago when we first started the trucking company ... yea we looked good on paper but stuff was tight ... and it's hard to hire more people and buy new equipment to grow at the start ... from the outside you may look rich ... but your not ...

Lots of people make over a million dollars a year trying to break even.

[frerottenextelway]

I'm more impressed with Obama every time I see him. He came out with a game plan and stayed zeroed in on it for the entire debate. In the end, he comes out looking like the man who is concentrated on the issues, in favor of bipartisanship, solving America's major issues, and moving away from the nasty politics of the past. In case nobody knows this, these are the issues that score the highest with independents. In other words, Obama geared this final debate performance to the exact audience he needs to move to his side. And what happened to McCain?

He comes out looking like a continuation of the nasty politics of Bush. He comes out as the guy who is going to continue the policies of the Bush cabal. He comes across as the guy who is going to continue the gridlock of partisan nastiness. Plus, he was very unclear on numerous issues, for example when he said you can't just throw money at education and then started talking about how he was going to spend money on education. Plus, he came off as befuddled on numerous issues, especially his health insurance ideas. He was completely murky. I don't think any American could explain it after tonight other than to say that McCain is going to tax health benefits. BTW, just that line sinks his campaign.

I think the American people tuned into this last debate to see if they could comfortably accept Obama in the Oval Office. My take is that they are going to say, "Yes."

Remember when you were incredibly critical of Obama going this route after the first debate. :)

Obama played the part of the ''grown-up'', McCain played the part of a 72 year old man going through his "terrible 2s'' throwing tantrums, and at least twice, snorting.

[enjolras]

Lots of people make over a million dollars a year trying to break even.

Obama's tax plan taxes at $250k of taxable income. I'm a business owner (I've started and brought to fruition two others)... with various deductions your taxable income shouldn't approach $250k until you are well and truly profitable. It never has for me.

[gunns]

Remember when you were incredibly critical of Obama going this route after the first debate. :)

Obama played the part of the ''grown-up'', McCain played the part of a 72 year old man going through his "terrible 2s'' throwing tantrums, and at least twice, snorting.

A 72 year old man who wants nothing more than to be President, knowing he doesn't have another chance to do it, a man who has been given much, a place in military school, a barbie doll wife, money, a man who can't figure out where this all went wrong.

[Rohirrim]

Remember when you were incredibly critical of Obama going this route after the first debate. :)

Obama played the part of the ''grown-up'', McCain played the part of a 72 year old man going through his "terrible 2s'' throwing tantrums, and at least twice, snorting.

You're right. I wanted some blood. Watching the way Obama campaigns is like watching a really good gameday coach. He's always one step ahead. He's already thought out the next three plays. I read a piece that said he's an awesome poker player. I don't doubt it. If you ask me, he played McCain tonight.

[Pseudofool]

You're right. I wanted some blood. Watching the way Obama campaigns is like watching a really good gameday coach. He's always one step ahead. He's already thought out the next three plays. I read a piece that said he's an awesome poker player. I don't doubt it. If you ask me, he played McCain tonight.McCain on the other hand, probably isn't very good at poker. [insert nervous facial tick]

[Odysseus]

has obama always been this big a p***Y?

or is mccain a bully?

Obama pimp slapped the crap out of John McCain when he complimented him on his stance against torture of prisoners.

Bush and the RNC told McCain to back off on that issue or he would be discredited and in a big way. This is supposed to be the one issue that McCain would not compromise on.

His point? What happened to the "old" John McCain?

[Rohirrim]

McCain on the other hand, probably isn't very good at poker. [insert nervous facial tick]

Ha! No, I wouldn't think McCain would be much of a poker player. Man, there were a few times when he had this wild look in his eyes that I thought was just spooky. Plus, he has a smile that isn't a smile, it's more of a grimace of pain. But like FrerotteNE, I was impressed by the snorts.

[Arkie]

Reagan: Movie star
Bush 1: VP of a movie star
Clinton: Pure charisma
Bush 2: Son of a VP of a movie star that you want to have a beer with.
Obama: The only legitimate intellectual of the bunch.

That's the difference.

This won't be popular, but Reagan, Clinton and Bush are probably smarter than most of us here. Bush 2 is average but way, way, way below average for a politician that rises to the top. He's less dumb than Jeb and riding the coattails of his dad.

[Bronco Bob]

ok ignoring who your voting for...........everyone must admit this was McCains best debate and Obamas worst........any disagree?

I think Obama did poorly in the first debate.
The second one Obama nailed because
McCain seemed so weird, angry, and disoriented
with his constant wandering around behind
Obama's back.
I think McCain did better in this one so yes,
I would agree this was McCain's best debate.
But I think the first one was Obama's worst debate.
Obama basically was going for not doing anything
to hurt himself in this one, so he came off as rather
boring and wonkish.

In this one Obama was basically playing a combination
of prevent defense when McCain had the ball and a
series of running plays to grind out the clock when
Obama had the ball. Makes for boring football,
but if executed properly it wins the game.

[Rohirrim]

What we saw tonight was the death of Karl Rove politics. McCain fired his staff and hired Bush's mercenaries. That may have been his biggest mistake. They are the ones who have orchestrated the destruction of McCain from within. Had John just stuck with who he used to be, put Lieberman on the ticket like he wanted to, and fought the same campaign he fought in 2000, Obama/Biden would have had a much tougher time of it. IMO, the American people have turned the page on Bush and Rove's form of politics. The Bush crew running McCain's campaign still hasn't got the memo.

[Bronco Bob]

Is his name really Joe? That just seems too coincidental to Joe Sixpack.

Joe Wurzelbacher, a plumber in Ohio.

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/10/15/does-joe-the-plumber-know-joe-six-pack/

[Drek]

McCain on the other hand, probably isn't very good at poker. [insert nervous facial tick]

There was actually an article that described both candidate's well known gambling habits.

Obama: Poker with the guys, classic grinder who basically only plays good cards and is ice cold at the table. Generally actually wins money.

McCain: Lover of craps, has been known to go on all night binges at the tables in his younger days, grabbing any random woman to be on his arm and typically losing several thousand dollars.

Its not much of a surprise that the majority of the professional gambling community favors Obama. They know how irrational and uncontrollable a game craps is. Gives some interesting insight into how each would govern.

[BroncoBuff]

Lots of people make over a million dollars a year trying to break even.
Please! Think about it, Arkie: It's all relative.

People making over a million a year ALL have health care, can afford food and gas, and can send their kids to college. For these people, the "struggling to make it" you describe is: Having a hard time with the kids' lease and insurance on the Lexus - plus the vacation home mortgage - plus the trip to Australia, all coming due in the same month.

Sure, they "struggle." But the definition of what "struggle" is is very different.

[Play2win]

Reagan: Movie star
Bush 1: VP of a movie star
Clinton: Pure charisma
Bush 2: Son of a VP of a movie star that you want to have a beer with.
Obama: The only legitimate intellectual of the bunch.

That's the difference.

Well, in all fairness, Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar, but Obama was a Professor of CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.

[Arkie]

As for Joe himself, directory assistance had no telephone listing for him in Toledo, Ohio. If you’re listening, Joe, we’d love to hear how you’re handling fame!

Hilarious!

[SJ Bronco]

fox news %86 - %11 McCain

[24champ]

I'm going to write in Joe the Plumber for president. He would be better than the two numbskulls running now.

[Pseudofool]

What we saw tonight was the death of Karl Rove politics. McCain fired his staff and hired Bush's mercenaries. That may have been his biggest mistake. They are the ones who have orchestrated the destruction of McCain from within. Had John just stuck with who he used to be, put Lieberman on the ticket like he wanted to, and fought the same campaign he fought in 2000, Obama/Biden would have had a much tougher time of it. IMO, the American people have turned the page on Bush and Rove's form of politics. The Bush crew running McCain's campaign still hasn't got the memo.I think you nailed. But for McCain, ambition outweighs reason. At this point, I'm convinced that McCain-as-Maverick-2000 is as much a political device as the current McCain...

[Pseudofool]

fox news %86 - %11 McCain
Sample size: 100 people, all staff.

[SJ Bronco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNFokenPInk

This is Joe the "republican"

[Pseudofool]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/mccain_buggin.gif

[24champ]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/mccain_buggin.gif

Ha! what the hell is that?

[Arkie]

Please! Think about it, Arkie: It's all relative.

People making over a million a year ALL have health care, can afford food and gas, and can send their kids to college. For these people, the "struggling to make it" you describe is: Having a hard time with the kids' lease and insurance on the Lexus - plus the vacation home mortgage - plus the trip to Australia, all coming due in the same month.

Sure, they "struggle." But the definition of what "struggle" is is very different.

Good point. Around here we have farms and sawmills with top employees taking home more net income than the owners. But like enjolras said, it's taxable income, so the people in my example wouldn't get a tax hike in Obama's plan. Not yet.

[Odysseus]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/mccain_buggin.gif

I made poopee! Wheeee!!

[Odysseus]

There was actually an article that described both candidate's well known gambling habits.

Obama: Poker with the guys, classic grinder who basically only plays good cards and is ice cold at the table. Generally actually wins money.

McCain: Lover of craps, has been known to go on all night binges at the tables in his younger days, grabbing any random woman to be on his arm and typically losing several thousand dollars.

Its not much of a surprise that the majority of the professional gambling community favors Obama. They know how irrational and uncontrollable a game craps is. Gives some interesting insight into how each would govern.

I would not want to play Obama poker.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Obama definitely let McCain off easy on the Ayers thing.

I was disappointed that he didn't mention that the same person who hired Ayers and gave him a $49M grant is one of McCain's top campaign donors.

[SJ Bronco]

I wish he would have beat him up on the Acorn smoke screen..........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I wish he would have beat him up on the Acorn smoke screen..........

And mentioned that McCain was ACORN's keynote speaker in 2006.

[Pseudofool]

Obama definitely let McCain off easy on the Ayers thing.

I was disappointed that he didn't mention that the same person who hired Ayers and gave him a $49M grant is one of McCain's top campaign donors.Meh, small fry stuff. Barrack's got this...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

McCain fails, Obama is not rattled

Roger Simon 1 hour, 34 minutes ago

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. — Debates should not be confused with trips to Lourdes: Few miracles are dispensed.

John McCain needed a miracle in his final debate with Barack Obama on Wednesday night, a miracle that would wipe away McCain’s deficit in the polls and re-energize his flagging campaign.

He did not get one. The clouds did not part. Heavenly choirs were not heard. Instead, the American public heard angry attacks from McCain.

Sometimes McCain attacked directly, and sometimes he attacked sarcastically, but he never stopped attacking. And he never rattled Obama. Obama answered every attack and kept his cool.

How cool? Obama was so cool that after 90 minutes under blazing TV lights, an ice cube wouldn’t have melted on his forehead.

McCain attacked him on everything from wanting to raise the taxes of Joe the Plumber - - now the most famous plumber in America and at serious risk of becoming so wealthy his taxes will go up no matter who wins - - to not traveling enough.

“I admire so much Sen. Obama’s eloquence,” McCain sneered. “Sen. Obama, who has never traveled south of our border.” (This from a man whose running mate got her first passport last year.)

But McCain didn’t just attack, he also defended, including defending those people who attend his rallies and the rallies of Sarah Palin who have shouted nasty and threatening things when Obama’s name is mentioned.

“Let me say categorically that I am proud of the people who come to my rallies,” McCain said. “I am not going to stand for anybody saying that the people who come to our rallies are anything other than patriotic citizens.”

Obama responded to all this — what else? — coolly.

“I don’t mind being attacked for the next three weeks,” Obama said. “What the American people can’t afford is four more years of failed economic policies.”

He never got off his game plan. He never got shook up.

The biggest impact of the three presidential debates for Obama was not anything said or not said. It was impressionistic: Obama simply did not appear to be the scary “other” that McCain needs him to be. “When people suggest that I pal around with terrorists, then we are not talking about issues,” Obama said smoothly.

For McCain, the biggest impact of the debates was visual: In the first debate he refused to look at Obama, in the second debate McCain appeared to careen around the stage and in this last debate McCain would scribble furiously with his Sharpie as Obama was talking or else smirk in response to what Obama was saying.

Moderator Bob Schieffer of CBS often asked provocative questions that sometimes did not get provocative responses. When Schieffer asked each man why the country would be better off if his running mate became president rather than the other guy’s running mate, Obama said Joe Biden “shares my core values.” John McCain said Sarah Palin is a “reformer” and “she has united our party.”

And McCain’s desire to keep his party united behind him — because who else is? — was very much on his mind, dipping deep into conservative Republican talking points. McCain repeatedly accused Obama of “wanting to spread the wealth” around, which doesn’t seem like all that bad an idea to people who aren’t wealthy.

But there was one place McCain would not go: He did not bring up the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It is a line McCain seems determined not to cross, even though some in his party are urging him to do so.

What McCain really needed is what he still needs: for Obama to make some huge gaffe, something that makes Obama look like the riskier choice between the two.

But Obama made no such gaffes Wednesday night.

“The biggest risk we could take right now is to adopt the same failed policies and same failed politics that we’ve seen for the last eight years,” Obama said.

The race is not over. It would be wrong to write McCain off. After all, there is still almost three weeks to go. And in politics, anything can happen.

It usually doesn’t, however.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081016/pl_politico/14619

[Paladin]

On CBS News, Couric asked both what makes a well known figure cheaat on his spouse. Basicall, Obama said he dldn't have a clue why. He'd leave that to Pschologists. McNasty said he wouldn't anser becasue he didn't want to pass judgement.

C'mon McNasty tell us how neat is was to sack a few hotties.....

[Bronco Bob]

What made the biggest impression on me was their closing remarks.
Not anything either of them said. But the way they said it.
McCain came off as if he were responding to a question
from Sean Hannity in an interview on Fox News.
Obama looked and sounded like a president talking from
his desk in the Oval Office about a grave crisis facing the nation.
I could see this guy as the president, I couldn't see that
in McCain.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What made the biggest impression on me was their closing remarks.
Not anything either of them said. But the way they said it.
McCain came off as if he were responding to a question
from Sean Hannity in an interview on Fox News.
Obama looked and sounded like a president talking from
his desk in the Oval Office about a grave crisis facing the nation.
I could see this guy as the president, I couldn't see that
in McCain.

Everything about McCain's facial expressions, mannerisms, body language, etc., said "unstable," "wound too tight," etc., in big neon letters.

[Mr.Meanie]

joe plumber would be my dad 20 years ago when we first started the trucking company ... yea we looked good on paper but stuff was tight ... and it's hard to hire more people and buy new equipment to grow at the start ... from the outside you may look rich ... but your not ...

Making 250k per year Net vs. Gross is quite different. Hiring people and buying equipment and spending on expansion does NOT come out of net profit. I guarantee any small business that is expanding would not show a 250k net profit at the end of the year...they would most likely show a loss.

Netting 20k per month in pure net profit is actually really good for any small business. But it generally doesn't happen until the small business stops aggressive expansion.

That's part of what makes the current tax system work so well. Hiring people, investing in products or warehouses or equipment actually stimulates the economy, and gives the small businesses the extra incentive to keep pouring their money back into the economy. Once they slow down with that turnover of money, they are penalized by higher tax rates.

From what I can tell, nothing in Obama's tax plan changes that. I guess I don't understand how McCain's tax plan is going to help with federal budget deficits, when he said he wants to cut taxes across the board to everyone.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Even as fanatical an Obama hater as W*GS posted an article from his beloved "The Economist" whose panel of economists argued that Obama's was the superior plan.

But McCain said he didn't "get" economics, so that shouldn't surprise anyone, I guess.

[Hogan11]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/mccain_buggin.gif

It does look like he cut a wet fart or something.........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It does look like he cut a wet fart or something.........

:giggle:

[Hogan11]

fox news %86 - %11 McCain

Now there's a surprise ::)

What else would one expect from a network's veiwership that's really based on and centered around confrontation, shout downs and mean spirited, talk wrestling type of programs. Of course they thought McCain won after tonight.....they also think he won the last two debates, go figure.

[Odysseus]

Obama actually reached out to Republicans during this debate when he walked around several hot topics. He openly requested conversations with Republicans and made it clear in this discussion that he expected dialog. I think in our ardor for seeing them "get at it" we missed a key point that was actually pretty well timed.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Obama Wins Final Debate by a Large Margin

John McCain had to give it everything he had last night and he did, but it probably wasn't enough. He attacked Barack Obama on his character, on his relationship with William Ayers, on everything. His best sound bite was: "Senator Obama. I am not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago." But Obama parried this by saying: "on the core economic issues that matter to the American people--on tax policy, on energy policy, and spending priorities--you have been a vigorous supporter of President Bush."


The day before the debate, Obama practically dared McCain to bring up the subject of William Ayers. McCain hesitated to do it, but moderator Bob Schieffer called his bluff saying to him: "Your running mate said he palled around with terrorists." McCain was now on the spot and angrily said: "I don't care about an old, washed up terrorist. But as Sen. Clinton said in her debates with you we need to know the full extent of that relationship. Obama calmly replied: "Bill Ayers is a professor of education in Chicago. Forty years ago, when I was 8 years old, he engaged in despicable acts with a radical domestic group. I have roundly condemned those acts. Ten years ago, he served and I served on a board that was funded by one of Ronald Reagan's former ambassadors and close friends, Mr. Annenberg." From now on, when the Republicans bring up Ayers, the Democrats are going to point out that one of Reagan's close friends liked him enough to put him on the board of one of his foundations.


While McCain scored more formal debating points than he did in his earlier debates, he lost the body language war. He was tense, angry, smirking, and sarcastic, anything but presidential. Prof. Obama, the law professor, acted like Prof. Obama, the law professor, focused, unruffled, and in control on the facts and in his demeanor. Watch him at Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGzfYOp34d8).
Immediately after the debate, Opinion Research Corp., CNN's pollster this year, ran a poll (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/15/debate.poll/index.html) on who won. Once again, Obama won, 58% to 31%, an almost 2 to 1 margin. To shake up the race, McCain had to win decisively. All Obama needed was a draw. Instead he got a resounding victory. On the economy, which is topic A (as well as topic B and topic C) at the moment, 59% said Obama would manage it better and 24% said McCain would. Respondents also preferred Obama's stand on taxes by 56% to 41% and also his stand on health care by 62% to 31%. In addition, the people polled also said Obama expressed his views better, was the stronger leader, was more likeable, and was less of a typical politician. And on the heart of the McCain campaign--that he never met William Ayers and Obama did--51% said Ayers didn't matter to them at all. Maybe Lee Atwater is really dead, finally.


As it did before, CBS commissioned Knowledge Networks to run a poll (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/15/politics/horserace/entry4525171.shtml) among uncommitted voters. The 638 respondents said Obama won, 53% to 22%. Before the debate 54% thought Obama shared their values (a key Republican selling point). Afterwards it was 64%. For McCain the figures were 52% and 55%, respectively. Before the debate, 54% thought Obama would make the right decisions about the economy; after it was 65%. For McCain the numbers were 38% and 48%, respectively. Before the debate, 66% thought Obama understood their needs; afterwards it was 76%. For McCain it was 36% to 46%.
<!--ENDFEED-->

In short, in the World Series of Debate, the Democrats won 4-0. There will be no game 5. Obama was already ahead when he started and he increased his lead in every area that matters to the voters. Many observers have said all along this is Obama's race to win or lose and there is nothing John McCain can do about it. The voters are sick and tired of George Bush and his enablers and angry about the direction the country is going. They desperately want change. The only issue is whether Obama is up to the job. The Republicans have thrown everything including the kitchen sink at him, but he has come off as cool (in at least two ways), knowledgeable, and completely unflappable. There will be more complete polls in the next few days, but Obama probably closed the deal last night.

[TailgateNut]

ok ignoring who your voting for...........everyone must admit this was McCains best debate ?

That's not saying much. The guy looked like he had **** in his depends!

[TailgateNut]

Remember when you were incredibly critical of Obama going this route after the first debate. :)

Obama played the part of the ''grown-up'', McCain played the part of a 72 year old man going through his "terrible 2s'' throwing tantrums, and at least twice, snorting.


It was akin to a debate between a college student and a 2nd grade drop out with an attitude. McCain looked like he was about to blow a gasket.

[TailgateNut]

. But like FrerotteNE, I was impressed by the snorts.


The raging bull (****) snort WAS impressive.

After watching the "bumbling idiot" for the last eight years, who in their "right mind" would vote this baboon into office. "lets's go from dumb to insane".

[TailgateNut]

On CBS News, Couric asked both what makes a well known figure cheaat on his spouse. Basicall, Obama said he dldn't have a clue why. He'd leave that to Pschologists. McNasty said he wouldn't anser becasue he didn't want to pass judgement.

C'mon McNasty tell us how neat is was to sack a few hotties.....


Yeah JOHN, what's it like to dump the wife who faithfully waited for your return from Vietnam for years, only to have you return and apply for a marriage license with your new "ride" before sending your "damaged ride" out to pasture.


****ing "low-life"!

[Rohirrim]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/mccain_buggin.gif

That's some freaky ****.

"I vant to bite your neck."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1237/mccain_buggin.gif
"Holy crap! That Amyl Nitrate has one hell of a kick to it."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20081016/i/r1772410910.jpg?x=400&y=303&q=85&sig=14VeZ1i8CUsxeyG4fnGe4A--

US Republican presidential nominee Senator John McCain (R-AZ) reacts to almost heading the wrong way off the stage after shaking hands with Democratic presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) at the conclusion of the final presidential debate at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York, October 15, 2008. REUTERS/Jim Bourg (UNITED STATES) US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN 2008
<cite id="captionCite">(USA)</cite>